Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

That is a standard 3-stage (lead-acid) charge profile (without
de-sulfating).  Before digitally controlled chargers that was considered
ideal.  I don't know if current thinking has changed.

"1.5A power output, regulated to 14V.  In practice you get 1.5A until
voltage rises to 14, then you get 14v until its little brain decides it's
fully charged (probably when amps quit going down), and then it drops to
13.25V for maintenance."




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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Plus you “saved big money” (at Menard’s), too.

-D

> On Feb 21, 2021, at 5:49 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> On 2021-02-19 23:31, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:
>> I've never used either so cannot comment.
>> From long term use I can recommend Battery Minder.
>> The cheap chargers may be fine (and the brand names probably cost no more to
>> manufacture) but why take a chance unless you want to bet your battery of
>> measure the actual (time varying) V-I charge curves?
> 
> A couple years ago Menards was blowing out some Peak brand (can't find the 
> same model on the web now) 1.5A maintainers for $5 after rebate, limit two. 
> I've metered them, and they work like this:
> 1.5A power output, regulated to 14V.
> In practice you get 1.5A until voltage rises to 14, then you get 14v until 
> its little brain decides it's fully charged (probably when amps quit going 
> down), and then it drops to 13.25V for maintenance.
> 
> Just about perfect in my opinion.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On 2021-02-19 23:31, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:

I've never used either so cannot comment.
From long term use I can recommend Battery Minder.
The cheap chargers may be fine (and the brand names probably cost no 
more to
manufacture) but why take a chance unless you want to bet your battery 
of

measure the actual (time varying) V-I charge curves?


A couple years ago Menards was blowing out some Peak brand (can't find 
the same model on the web now) 1.5A maintainers for $5 after rebate, 
limit two. I've metered them, and they work like this:

1.5A power output, regulated to 14V.
In practice you get 1.5A until voltage rises to 14, then you get 14v 
until its little brain decides it's fully charged (probably when amps 
quit going down), and then it drops to 13.25V for maintenance.


Just about perfect in my opinion.

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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

I've never used either so cannot comment.  
>From long term use I can recommend Battery Minder.  
The cheap chargers may be fine (and the brand names probably cost no more to
manufacture) but why take a chance unless you want to bet your battery of
measure the actual (time varying) V-I charge curves?

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Allan Streib via Mercedes
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 11:25 PM
To: Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
Cc: Allan Streib 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

Mitch Haley via Mercedes  writes:

>> I should probably pick up some battery minders. Harbor Fright has 12V 
>> float chargers for $9. Any good?
>
> 1. they die after a couple years of frequent use.
> 2. they claim to be regulated, but aren't. Can easily push a battery 
> over 14V once it's at full charge, which is not float charging.

Looks like they have a "deluxe" version that's about $20. It claims it
"Automatically maintains the correct voltage." Walmart also has one under
the "Everstart" brand that seems to have some smarts. About the same price.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Mitch Haley via Mercedes  writes:

>> I should probably pick up some battery minders. Harbor Fright has 12V
>> float chargers for $9. Any good?
>
> 1. they die after a couple years of frequent use.
> 2. they claim to be regulated, but aren't. Can easily push a battery 
> over 14V once it's at full charge, which is not float charging.

Looks like they have a "deluxe" version that's about $20. It claims it
"Automatically maintains the correct voltage." Walmart also has one
under the "Everstart" brand that seems to have some smarts. About the
same price.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

True story.  Many of the new fancy chargers will not even try unless they
know the voltage of the "dead" battery, which typically requires something
over 10v.  In the past I used an old dumb charger to get the voltage up to
the point the smart charger would work.  Jumping works too but I have more
spare chargers than batteries.




"My neighbor has a HF smart charger with switching power supply, must be
about ten years old.
Works fine, but if the battery is flat you need to jump start the charger to
make it believe it has a battery hooked up t0 it."

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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

I have used Battery Tenders and Battery Minders.  Someone on this list said
the Battery Minder was better; I think that is true.  Battery Minders
allegedly have better regulation and de-sulfate action.  Northern Tool had
some Battery minders on sale (looked like older model) a few years back and
I bought a few.  

In my experience, flooded battery life depends on maintaining near fully
charge and adding water (as needed) to maintain electrolyte level.
Overcharge is better than undercharge but overcharge also "boils off" water
in the cells.  Distilled or demineralized water is best but almost anything
is better than exposed plates.

In the subject of charging, if the battery is not sealed a good old battery
hydrometer is very effective for measuring state of charge and identifying
dying cells.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Craig via Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 11:10 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Craig 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 18:02:09 -0500 Allan Streib via Mercedes
 wrote:

> OK Don via Mercedes  writes:
> 
> > Since it can be as much as four weeks between times we drive our 
> > vehicles now, I keep them both (all three if you count the airplane) 
> > on battery minders.
> 
> I should probably pick up some battery minders. Harbor Fright has 12V 
> float chargers for $9. Any good?

BTW, BatteryMINDer is a brand name ...

A competitor's name is Battery Tender.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On 2021-02-18 18:02, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote:


I should probably pick up some battery minders. Harbor Fright has 12V
float chargers for $9. Any good?


1. they die after a couple years of frequent use.
2. they claim to be regulated, but aren't. Can easily push a battery 
over 14V once it's at full charge, which is not float charging.


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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On 2021-02-19 09:02, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

We had a Harbor Freight battery charger, a larger one, 10a maybe, at
camp.


My dad bought a heavy little transformer charger, I think 6A.
I think it was about a year old when I was looking for something to 
charge his lawnmower and he told me to use it.
It didn't do anything, not on the mower, not on the tractor, not on his 
pickup...


My neighbor has a HF smart charger with switching power supply, must be 
about ten years old.
Works fine, but if the battery is flat you need to jump start the 
charger to make it believe it has a battery hooked up t0 it.


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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 We had a Harbor Freight battery charger, a larger one, 10a maybe, at camp. A 
couple years ago during a run of bad weather I was running the generator and 
that charger to top up the batteries. Suddenly the generator lugged down like 
it was under really heavy load. I went outside and the charger was smoking 
pretty good. I shut everything down and tossed the charger into the snow. It 
didn't have many hours on it...
-Curt

On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 6:14:05 PM EST, OK Don via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 This is the one I have, I would not trust HF to keep a battery good over a
long period of time - too many shortcuts at that price point. Yes, I paid
for advertising, brand name, etc., but the peace of mind is worth it to me.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Q3CM2QY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8=1

On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 5:02 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> OK Don via Mercedes  writes:
>
> > Since it can be as much as four weeks between times we drive our
> > vehicles now, I keep them both (all three if you count the airplane)
> > on battery minders.
>
> I should probably pick up some battery minders. Harbor Fright has 12V
> float chargers for $9. Any good?
>
> Allan
>
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>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> I guess there's also the DIY option...
>  https://www.instructables.com/Battery-Float-Charger/ 
> 

Overly complicated, as its main claim to fame is turning 5V from
a phone charger into 12V to charge a car battery.  Slowly.  The
components would cost more than the Harbor Freight tender,
and it likely wouldn't work any better.

A for effort, though.

-- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 18:02:09 -0500 Allan Streib via Mercedes
 wrote:

> OK Don via Mercedes  writes:
> 
> > Since it can be as much as four weeks between times we drive our
> > vehicles now, I keep them both (all three if you count the airplane)
> > on battery minders.
> 
> I should probably pick up some battery minders. Harbor Fright has 12V
> float chargers for $9. Any good?

BTW, BatteryMINDer is a brand name ...

A competitor's name is Battery Tender.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Exactly, and I'm at the point where the remaining time is becoming both
less and more valuable. I find myself more willing to trade $s for time ---

On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 5:24 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I guess there's also the DIY option...
>
>   https://www.instructables.com/Battery-Float-Charger/
>
> ... but likely yet another project I wouldn't get around to.
>
> Allan
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’m constantly amazed at all the things you can do with a 555 IC.

-D

> On Feb 18, 2021, at 6:24 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I guess there's also the DIY option...
> 
>  https://www.instructables.com/Battery-Float-Charger/
> 
> ... but likely yet another project I wouldn't get around to.
> 
> Allan
> 
> OK Don via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> This is the one I have, I would not trust HF to keep a battery good over a
>> long period of time - too many shortcuts at that price point. Yes, I paid
>> for advertising, brand name, etc., but the peace of mind is worth it to me.
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Q3CM2QY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8=1
>> 
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 5:02 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> OK Don via Mercedes  writes:
>>> 
 Since it can be as much as four weeks between times we drive our
 vehicles now, I keep them both (all three if you count the airplane)
 on battery minders.
>>> 
>>> I should probably pick up some battery minders. Harbor Fright has 12V
>>> float chargers for $9. Any good?
>>> 
>>> Allan
> 
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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I guess there's also the DIY option...

  https://www.instructables.com/Battery-Float-Charger/

... but likely yet another project I wouldn't get around to.

Allan

OK Don via Mercedes  writes:

> This is the one I have, I would not trust HF to keep a battery good over a
> long period of time - too many shortcuts at that price point. Yes, I paid
> for advertising, brand name, etc., but the peace of mind is worth it to me.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Q3CM2QY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8=1
>
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 5:02 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> OK Don via Mercedes  writes:
>>
>> > Since it can be as much as four weeks between times we drive our
>> > vehicles now, I keep them both (all three if you count the airplane)
>> > on battery minders.
>>
>> I should probably pick up some battery minders. Harbor Fright has 12V
>> float chargers for $9. Any good?
>>
>> Allan

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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

This is the one I have, I would not trust HF to keep a battery good over a
long period of time - too many shortcuts at that price point. Yes, I paid
for advertising, brand name, etc., but the peace of mind is worth it to me.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Q3CM2QY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8=1

On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 5:02 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> OK Don via Mercedes  writes:
>
> > Since it can be as much as four weeks between times we drive our
> > vehicles now, I keep them both (all three if you count the airplane)
> > on battery minders.
>
> I should probably pick up some battery minders. Harbor Fright has 12V
> float chargers for $9. Any good?
>
> Allan
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

OK Don via Mercedes  writes:

> Since it can be as much as four weeks between times we drive our
> vehicles now, I keep them both (all three if you count the airplane)
> on battery minders.

I should probably pick up some battery minders. Harbor Fright has 12V
float chargers for $9. Any good?

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

My truck is similar if I recall correctly. I have a 2013 F150 Supercrew 
with the 5 liter Coyote engine.
I replaced my battery in the last week of December 2020. It was still 
working but periodically making me suspicious that it was about done.


Randy


On 18/02/2021 4:43 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:


Since it can be as much as four weeks between times we drive our vehicles
now, I keep them both (all three if you count the airplane) on battery
minders. I installed the pig tails and leave them hanging out the hood so
it's simple to just plug and unplug the minders. The truck is in it's
eighth year on the original battery and shows no sign of weakening. I do
have a load tester - need to test it next month when I do the annual oil
change.




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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[G Mann via Mercedes]

The poor batteries in newer cars full of electronic nannies are task with
keeping their memories alive, 24/7, setting unused or driving, so, in the
quiet of the night, you can hear the electrons being siphoned off.

A Battery minder is a great idea to keep pouring electrons into the
bottomless pit of nanny hood.

I do wonder why some auto design genius has not devised a "super nanny"
that acts as a solid state memory card that preserves all the "magic
settings" on shutdown and disconnects from the battery, thus negating the
need for constant power. Why not have a "Key on, Power on, Reboot solid
state hard drive, start sequence built in to the command module system"?

Adversity makes opportunity Someone builds it and gets rich.


On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 3:44 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 2:01 PM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Newer cars _hate_ sitting for weeks at a time because nobody is going
> > anywhere.
> >
> > -- Jim
> >
>
> Since it can be as much as four weeks between times we drive our vehicles
> now, I keep them both (all three if you count the airplane) on battery
> minders. I installed the pig tails and leave them hanging out the hood so
> it's simple to just plug and unplug the minders. The truck is in it's
> eighth year on the original battery and shows no sign of weakening. I do
> have a load tester - need to test it next month when I do the annual oil
> change.
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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>
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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 2:01 PM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> Newer cars _hate_ sitting for weeks at a time because nobody is going
> anywhere.
>
> -- Jim
>

Since it can be as much as four weeks between times we drive our vehicles
now, I keep them both (all three if you count the airplane) on battery
minders. I installed the pig tails and leave them hanging out the hood so
it's simple to just plug and unplug the minders. The truck is in it's
eighth year on the original battery and shows no sign of weakening. I do
have a load tester - need to test it next month when I do the annual oil
change.
-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> I'll trace that down later, but when charging a dead battery, how long
> should I charge it? I have an 8A plug-in charger with a meter. I recall

I go until my (smart, but old) 10A charger with a meter stops feeding current.
Yesterday the X5 would not start.  Car's too smart to try when the battery
is low, so I wasn't sure what was wrong.  Had to drive the E320 instead.
Anyway, the battery was sucking _hard_ on the charger for a long time.
Something like 8 hours later it was still drawing 3A.  By next morning
it had shut off.  Car started easily after that.

Newer cars _hate_ sitting for weeks at a time because nobody is going anywhere.

'60 Falcon, with no accessories to speak of, a mechanical key switch, and a
mechanical voltage regulator (generator, not alternator) would sit until the gas
was going bad in the tank, but still start.  (No radio or clock to suck on the 
battery,
certainly no computer likewise, and not even the reverse diode leakage current 
of
an alternator.)  The worst parasitic drain on the battery was internal to it, 
and/or
leakage current across the battery case.  Keep it clean, that helped.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

8a for 5 hours would be 40ah, a reasonable amount of the battery is fairly 
beefy.
I prefer a slow charge on a badly discharged battery but that might be alchemy 
more than science. 
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 2:04 PM, Allan Streib via 
Mercedes wrote:   Volvo battery was dead last night. 
This has been an intermittent problem
since I got it. I replaced the battery last fall (it tested poorly) but
I must have a current drain somewhere also since the new battery died
after sitting for about 4 days.

I'll trace that down later, but when charging a dead battery, how long
should I charge it? I have an 8A plug-in charger with a meter. I recall
reading somewhere that when the current drops to about half the initial
reading, the battery is charged. E.g. if the meter is reading the full
8A initially, when the meter drops to 4A (took about 5 hours) then it's
charged.

Does that sound right?

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] battery charging question

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I had the same problem back in '68 when I lived in St. Paul, MN.  Solved
the problem by bringing it inside every night.

On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 2:04 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Volvo battery was dead last night. This has been an intermittent problem
> since I got it. I replaced the battery last fall (it tested poorly) but
> I must have a current drain somewhere also since the new battery died
> after sitting for about 4 days.
>
> I'll trace that down later, but when charging a dead battery, how long
> should I charge it? I have an 8A plug-in charger with a meter. I recall
> reading somewhere that when the current drops to about half the initial
> reading, the battery is charged. E.g. if the meter is reading the full
> 8A initially, when the meter drops to 4A (took about 5 hours) then it's
> charged.
>
> Does that sound right?
>
> Allan
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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[MBZ] battery charging question

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Volvo battery was dead last night. This has been an intermittent problem
since I got it. I replaced the battery last fall (it tested poorly) but
I must have a current drain somewhere also since the new battery died
after sitting for about 4 days.

I'll trace that down later, but when charging a dead battery, how long
should I charge it? I have an 8A plug-in charger with a meter. I recall
reading somewhere that when the current drops to about half the initial
reading, the battery is charged. E.g. if the meter is reading the full
8A initially, when the meter drops to 4A (took about 5 hours) then it's
charged.

Does that sound right?

Allan

___
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To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com