Jim Cathey wrote:
On-topic (sort of), it has five gears. Can't see much point to fifth,
though. It may be that the gear ratios are wrong for this
engine/differential combination. (I kept the original diff, the one
that went with the tranny is still on the parts car.)
I'm not entirely sure
Right - it does not specify the gears in a neat table - but if you
look at page 41 -- yes, I quoted from that same manual:
I'll quote from page 41 of the factory original owners manual (not a
copy or reprint) from my last 1976 300D (115 chassis, pre turbo), part
no. 115 584 12 97 -
D Drive. All
Remember - I quoted from the manual for 115 chassis 300D, 1975 to 1976
- no turbo.
The alldata pages did not differenciate enough between variations to
be useful. For instance, it did not differenciate between the three
speed early 107 cars ('72 to '80) and the later four speed cars ('81
to
The data is for a particular set of years. I never said it was good for 107
cars, I said it was good for an 83 300CD. All data, at least my version,
doesn't go back before 82. I did say, TWICE, that early 4.5L V8's had 3
speeds.
Why is everyone so insistant that I'm wrong?
Mike
On 10/23/06,
Perhaps no one is reading everything in detail - we're all responding
to bits, not the whole. I read the alldata sheet by scanning to what I
know on it, the 107, but didn't read the date range.
It's also time to move on ---
On 10/23/06, Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The data is for a
There are no trans manuals, they are on microfiche. That info is also
in the training tapes, which I happen to own.
Luther wrote:
Neither the 123 or 126 manuals say anything about first or second gear start.
http://mb.braingears.com/123_DISK2/program/OM/OM-50.pdf
Message -
From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Whatever you say, I guess I am wrong. I have half a dozen of those cars
here at any given moment
Well, you still didn't provide enough detail - the 107 with the cast
rion block (3.5 and 4.5) 117 engines have a three speed tranny
(722.004), and start in first. The later 107 had either the 3.8 or 5.6
aluminum block 117 engines, with a 4 speed tranny. I don't know which
gear they start in.
On
OK, now we all know you are write.
Michael Hall wrote:
Are you talkin to me? Because what you're saying doesn't make anything I've
said wrong.
Went to the shop today, printed to Microsoft Office Document Imaging (ie
.MDI) the MB specified values for starting gear given throttle position; I
I said earlier that the 4.5 L 117's have the 3 speed and start in first.
Dunno where you're getting the 3.5 info, thats older than I have info for.
Do I need to repeat everything I've ever said?
Mike
On 10/22/06, OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, you still didn't provide enough detail -
The 107 never came with a 617, so Im not sure why those would be lumped
together. The 103 never came in the 107 either. This info doesnt make
sense.
OK Don wrote:
Well, you still didn't provide enough detail - the 107 with the cast
rion block (3.5 and 4.5) 117 engines have a three speed
Yeah, your ability to write english better than I makes you right about
everything. Never mind the fact that English is the 3RD language I learned
In my life, of the 4 I know.
Mike
On 10/22/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK, now we all know you are write.
Michael Hall wrote:
The 3.5 and 4.5 were available at the same time.
Michael Hall wrote:
I said earlier that the 4.5 L 117's have the 3 speed and start in first.
Dunno where you're getting the 3.5 info, thats older than I have info for.
Do I need to repeat everything I've ever said?
Mike
--
Kaleb C.
Who said they did?
They're probaly lumped together becuase they opperate similiarly, either
becuase they havve similair internals, similiar design of internals, or
purly by luck.
Mike
On 10/22/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The 107 never came with a 617, so Im not sure why
Well, the MB document I quoted from is doesn't explicitly cover those
motors. You'll see what I mean when I post it.
On 10/22/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The 3.5 and 4.5 were available at the same time.
Michael Hall wrote:
I said earlier that the 4.5 L 117's have the 3
ok
Michael Hall wrote:
Well, the MB document I quoted from is doesn't explicitly cover those
motors. You'll see what I mean when I post it.
--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL,
87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2,
84 190D 2.2
would say YOU are the one who is wrong.
Mike
- Original Message -
From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Whatever you say, I guess I am
gear unless you tromp it all the way to the
floor. I
would say YOU are the one who is wrong.
Mike
- Original Message -
From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS
I want to see a copy of the transmission manuals OR where in the regular
chassis factory manual that these things are said. If Alldata is previously
suspect, they can be on this also.
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:53:40 -0500, Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Its Alldata info that is clearly
I would too, but I don't have access to it. Its not like All Data made this
data up - most of All Data's technical info comes directly from
Manufacturer's literature, and judging by the format of this information, it
comes from an MB document.
I certainly give more weight to this document than
alldata is very suspect. Here is how it boils down, we have 15 years
and dozens and dozens of cars worth of experience, or some info
somewhere from alldata. You decide. Just from my own experience. I
cant see how every 123 and 126 turbo car I have had over the last 15
years has all had the
On 10/23/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
alldata is very suspect.
Why? In particular, what makes this information suspect, other than it
proving you wrong? Are you claiming alldata made up this information?
Here is how it boils down, we have 15 years
and dozens and dozens
- Original Message -
From: Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
But you're talking about Klebbie, not a normal, logical person.
_
Frank Pembleton
Manchester, MO
KLEB FOR PREZ!!
-Original Message-
From: Michael Hall
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:59 PM
Otherwise, a logical person would conclude that I am correct.
Mike
No wonder Marshall is gone.
Mike
On 10/23/06, Frank Pembleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But you're talking about Klebbie, not a normal, logical person.
_
Frank Pembleton
Manchester, MO
KLEB FOR PREZ!!
-Original Message-
From: Michael Hall
Sent: Sunday, October
: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
No wonder Marshall is gone.
Mike
On 10/23/06, Frank Pembleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But you're talking about Klebbie, not a normal, logical person.
_
Frank Pembleton
Manchester, MO
KLEB FOR PREZ!!
-Original Message
Anybody who has had anything to do with turbo Diesel
engines will tell you about turbo lag, that period (usally below
1500rpms)
where the engine won't pull well because the turbo is not charging the
compression chamber.
Having driven the 190D 2.5 (stick) for awhile, something that seems to
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
No wonder Marshall is gone.
Mike
On 10/23/06, Frank Pembleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But you're talking about Klebbie, not a normal, logical person.
_
Frank Pembleton
Jim,
Sounds like you already know the solution to your power problem..It's
just plain geared wrong.
Mike
- Original Message -
From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY
@okiebenz.com
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
No wonder Marshall is gone.
Mike
On 10/23/06, Frank Pembleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But you're talking about Klebbie, not a normal, logical person.
_
Frank
Mike,
NO!
Chuck
Phoenix AZ
On Oct 23, 2006, at 6:16 AM, Michael Hall wrote:
I wonder if you have to be in MBCA to be on the forums?
Mike
You all could read the oner's manual --- a primary source. It's on
the CD if you don't have the one that came with the car.
You can call it suspect, you can even call it incorrect, but in doing so I
would expect you to provide contradictory information that would hold up to
the same burden
What would be the fun in that?
Mike
On 10/23/06, OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You all could read the oner's manual --- a primary source. It's on
the CD if you don't have the one that came with the car.
You can call it suspect, you can even call it incorrect, but in doing so
I
would
Jim,
I think you'd want the 2.2l diff in there for 5th to be useful. It seems like
the diff from the auto car would be a bit higher.
My 2.2l is fine to drive in 5th even last weekend hauling a woodstove back from
CT. On small hills I'd need to be sure to keep my speed up or need to shift
down
Neither the 123 or 126 manuals say anything about first or second gear start.
http://mb.braingears.com/123_DISK2/program/OM/OM-50.pdf
http://mb.braingears.com/126_DISC2/program/OM/OM-59.pdf
Maybe the actual transmission manuals (rare as Kaleb buying a new car)
would say
something for sure.
--
:16:09 -0400
From: Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Perhaps the belief that anecdotal data gathered
, 2006 2:54 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Neither the 123 or 126 manuals say anything about first or second gear start.
http://mb.braingears.com/123_DISK2/program/OM/OM-50.pdf
http://mb.braingears.com/126_DISC2/program/OM/OM-59.pdf
Maybe
, 23 Oct 2006 09:16:09 -0400
From: Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Perhaps the belief that anecdotal data
Whatever you say, I guess I am wrong. I have half a dozen of those cars
here at any given moment and they all start in 1st. I have had 50+ of
both turbo, non turbo, and gas cars, over the last 15 years and all the
turbo cars started in 1st, non turbo started in 2nd, with first gear
start via
Dont worry, its fixing to end real soon.
Sunil Hari wrote:
god this is turning into an oil thread ...
--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL,
87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2,
84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C,
Someone find where the factory manual says that the transmission is suppose to
start in first and then I'll believe them.
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:03:13 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Whatever you say, I guess I am wrong. I have half a dozen of those cars
here at any given
erI ment where the factory manual says SECOND!!! UGH.
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:34:22 -0500, Luther Gulseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Someone find where the factory manual says that the transmission is suppose
to start in first and then I'll believe them.
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:03:13
As Kleb says - it depends on which tranny you're talking about!
I'll quote from page 41 of the factory original owners manual (not a
copy or reprint) from my last 1976 300D (115 chassis, pre turbo), part
no. 115 584 12 97 -
D Drive. All gears are available. 1st. gear can be engaged only by
For my cars:
The 220D sits in second and kicks down to first when you press the
accelerator down (i.e. a second gear sitter).
The 88 TE starts in second gear unless you pretty much floor it
The 280 SE 4.5 starts in first (three speed tranny)
The 87 300D starts in first.
My brother's 75
OK, now how about the turbo versions?
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:47:26 -0500, OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As Kleb says - it depends on which tranny you're talking about!
I'll quote from page 41 of the factory original owners manual (not a
copy or reprint) from my last 1976 300D (115 chassis,
exactly, which is what I already quoted.
OK Don wrote:
As Kleb says - it depends on which tranny you're talking about!
I'll quote from page 41 of the factory original owners manual (not a
copy or reprint) from my last 1976 300D (115 chassis, pre turbo), part
no. 115 584 12 97 -
D Drive. All
they start in 1st, as I have said many times already. The part about
them sitting in 2nd is correct, they sit in 2nd till you start moving,
but start in first.
Luther Gulseth wrote:
OK, now how about the turbo versions?
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:47:26 -0500, OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
RTFM.
On 10/21/06, Luther Gulseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK, now how about the turbo versions?
--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've
exhausted all the alternatives.
Sir Winston Churchill
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97
Luther Gulseth wrote:
Someone find where the factory manual says that the transmission is suppose
to start
in first and then I'll believe them.
I've got the W116 update book that introduces the 300SD to the dealer mechanics.
It describes the fact that the tranny naturally starts in 2nd, and
Just a persona opinion.
We should all be happy that our cars start and move upon our
input.. Whether it's FIRST or SECOND and who is right and
who isn't... I don't GAS! Your car is moving! If it isn't, now
that's something to talk about
Off the stump
Take
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 8:51 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
except that I am right.
Michael Hall wrote:
You can say it as often as you want, it doesn't make you
I disagree, I've owned 15 Mercedes and several were early 80's
diesels. And
all of the automatic transmission models I owned, but my 280SEL 4.5's,
started in second gear. The 280SEL 4.5's started in first gear.
We also have owned quite a fleet, and the only one we had that started
in second
Second gear starts are normal on Benz trannies, and most of the
diesels are second gear sitters that stay in 2nd until you step on
the accelerator. That is to keep creep down, especially on the older
fluid coupling autos. The governor will cheerfully apply full fuel
delivery to maintain
Except you're wrong. And saying you're right doesn't make you right, it
just makes you look like like some hillbilly from OK that dismantles MB's in
his backyard and thinks that make him an expert.
Maybe you'll understand better if I say:
BZZZT - wrong
Mike
On 10/20/06, Kaleb C. Striplin
god this is turning into an oil thread ...
On 10/21/06, Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Except you're wrong. And saying you're right doesn't make you right, it
just makes you look like like some hillbilly from OK that dismantles MB's
in
his backyard and thinks that make him an expert.
Jim Cathey wrote:
It's complicated, I think we can all agree. We should just leave it
at that.
It doesn't help that there's a nearly infinite number of ways to
(mis)adjust these transmissions. I'd be surprised if any two of them
work alike at this point! They slip, they lurch, they hang,
Mercedes has offered too many transmissions in too many different cars to
unilaterally say what gear a given car will start in. I think a 79 240D
should have a 722.117 and the 83 300D should have a 722.315 and both SHOULD
start in 2nd gear. The 85 CALIFORNIA version should have what is
I will say this again, so everyone pay attention, The 123 and 126 turbo
cars start in FIRST. If they dont, something is wrong or misadjusted.
The older non turbo cars start in 2nd, will kick down into first if
kickdown switch is hit. The gas v8's with 4 speed trans(as in the
126's) start in
You can say it as often as you want, it doesn't make you right.
On 10/20/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I will say this again, so everyone pay attention, The 123 and 126 turbo
cars start in FIRST. If they dont, something is wrong or misadjusted.
The older non turbo cars start
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