Re: [MBZ] MBZ 87 300D Turbo smoke/idle problems.
Bypass oil filter. You guys don't miss anything :-) -Dave Walton On 6/28/07, John Freer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave, if you have 10 quarts of oil in an 8 quart system, it may cause some smoke. (grin) Where does the extra 2 quarts reside in your 603 engine? On 6/28/07, dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did not run the engine under that condition long enough to notice any oil consumption. I'm sure it went down some, but with a 10qt reserve, it was not significant. I also suspect that a little bit of oil makes a whole lotta smoke. -Dave Walton On 6/28/07, Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dave walton wrote: That is similar to what happened when the head gasket blew on my 1994 S350. Except that it happened all at once, got gradually. The failure caused oil to dump into the #1 cylinder. The cylinder still fired (until oil pressure built up), and the compression actually went up in that cylinder - probably because all the oil caused the rings to seal better. There was sooo much smoke that it appeared more white than grey or black, but smelled like motor oil. I've since heard this is a common failure for that engine (one of many). But the oil level dropped dramatically. I don't recall that the oil level is dropping! Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] MBZ 87 300D Turbo smoke/idle problems.
Unburned fuel could be due to too much fuel or not enough air. Have you already gone through the air intake pathways to make sure you haven't sucked in a sock or have other significant blockage? Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gray smoke is unburned fuel. Almost has to be an injection problem -- are the opening pressures OK? If so, it's something in the IP, either bad pressure valves or actual plunger/sleeve damage. Check for leaking fuel lines - if they leak out, air leaks in under suction! The fuel preheater and small filter are all under suction, so you could have a leak at the preheater thermostat or associated lines. A stream of small bubbles in the clear filter is an air leak. A leaking pressure valve or seal will usually cause rough running a terrible injector knock (from late injection) but usually no smoke, as there is no fuel being delivered. Check the oil for fuel smell, too -- if the IP is leaking out the bottom seals on the plungers, it will dilute the oil and cause havoc. Peter -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] MBZ 87 300D Turbo smoke/idle problems.
That is similar to what happened when the head gasket blew on my 1994 S350. Except that it happened all at once, got gradually. The failure caused oil to dump into the #1 cylinder. The cylinder still fired (until oil pressure built up), and the compression actually went up in that cylinder - probably because all the oil caused the rings to seal better. There was sooo much smoke that it appeared more white than grey or black, but smelled like motor oil. I've since heard this is a common failure for that engine (one of many). I rather doubt your problem is similar, but throw I'd throw it out there just in case... -Dave Walton On 6/27/07, Ken Rushing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To review: Within a couple of days my car began to smoke terrible (thick grey smoke) and idle very rough. There is no oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. The radiator hoses are not pressurized when the engine is cold. Also the coolant level has not changed and there are no fuel leaks. I've changed the plugs, the camshaft timing is good, ran it with fresh diesel then ran with diesel injection cleaner. I removed the injectors and viewed the spray pattern on each and they look good. EGR valve is not stuck open. All ball pins in the prechamber are intact. The exhaust tappets have only about 1-2 mm play. I ran a compression test but I'm not sure what the limits are. The highest was 460 psi and the lowest was 410 psi. The other four were 440-450 psi. Thanks again for all your help. Ken ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] MBZ 87 300D Turbo smoke/idle problems.
dave walton wrote: That is similar to what happened when the head gasket blew on my 1994 S350. Except that it happened all at once, got gradually. The failure caused oil to dump into the #1 cylinder. The cylinder still fired (until oil pressure built up), and the compression actually went up in that cylinder - probably because all the oil caused the rings to seal better. There was sooo much smoke that it appeared more white than grey or black, but smelled like motor oil. I've since heard this is a common failure for that engine (one of many). But the oil level dropped dramatically. I don't recall that the oil level is dropping! Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] MBZ 87 300D Turbo smoke/idle problems.
I did not run the engine under that condition long enough to notice any oil consumption. I'm sure it went down some, but with a 10qt reserve, it was not significant. I also suspect that a little bit of oil makes a whole lotta smoke. -Dave Walton On 6/28/07, Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dave walton wrote: That is similar to what happened when the head gasket blew on my 1994 S350. Except that it happened all at once, got gradually. The failure caused oil to dump into the #1 cylinder. The cylinder still fired (until oil pressure built up), and the compression actually went up in that cylinder - probably because all the oil caused the rings to seal better. There was sooo much smoke that it appeared more white than grey or black, but smelled like motor oil. I've since heard this is a common failure for that engine (one of many). But the oil level dropped dramatically. I don't recall that the oil level is dropping! Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] MBZ 87 300D Turbo smoke/idle problems.
Dave, if you have 10 quarts of oil in an 8 quart system, it may cause some smoke. (grin) Where does the extra 2 quarts reside in your 603 engine? On 6/28/07, dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did not run the engine under that condition long enough to notice any oil consumption. I'm sure it went down some, but with a 10qt reserve, it was not significant. I also suspect that a little bit of oil makes a whole lotta smoke. -Dave Walton On 6/28/07, Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dave walton wrote: That is similar to what happened when the head gasket blew on my 1994 S350. Except that it happened all at once, got gradually. The failure caused oil to dump into the #1 cylinder. The cylinder still fired (until oil pressure built up), and the compression actually went up in that cylinder - probably because all the oil caused the rings to seal better. There was sooo much smoke that it appeared more white than grey or black, but smelled like motor oil. I've since heard this is a common failure for that engine (one of many). But the oil level dropped dramatically. I don't recall that the oil level is dropping! Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] MBZ 87 300D Turbo smoke/idle problems.
Hi Ken, The compression is pretty good.. Typically you want the lowest value to be within 10% of the others - which you are. Is it possible the IP timing changed? Does it do this when warm or only when cold? My 91 300D 2.5T did something similar - but it was intermittant. It would smoke heavily (white smoke) , have no power and then gradually get better as it went putt-putt down the street (very embarassing), I believe it was caused by heavy carbon builld-up because of the POs driving pattern which was 5-10 mi /day for 13 years - in New England where there were many cold days so I'm sure the engine never warmed up. I'm sure it was carbon buildup and I used some stuff called Ferox (3 bottles) for about 6 months. My wife also drove it 100 mi round trip to work daily at 65mpf which went a long way to clearing all problems. It cleared up and hasn't happened for the last 18 months. That's my guess - but your compression is very good. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Ken Rushing [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 10:46 AM Subject: [MBZ] MBZ 87 300D Turbo smoke/idle problems. To review: Within a couple of days my car began to smoke terrible (thick grey smoke) and idle very rough. There is no oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. The radiator hoses are not pressurized when the engine is cold. Also the coolant level has not changed and there are no fuel leaks. I've changed the plugs, the camshaft timing is good, ran it with fresh diesel then ran with diesel injection cleaner. I removed the injectors and viewed the spray pattern on each and they look good. EGR valve is not stuck open. All ball pins in the prechamber are intact. The exhaust tappets have only about 1-2 mm play. I ran a compression test but I'm not sure what the limits are. The highest was 460 psi and the lowest was 410 psi. The other four were 440-450 psi. Thanks again for all your help. Ken ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.10/873 - Release Date: 6/26/2007 11:54 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] MBZ 87 300D Turbo smoke/idle problems.
In a message dated 6/27/2007 7:48:03 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Within a couple of days my car began to smoke terrible (thick grey smoke) and idle very rough. There is no oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. The radiator hoses are not pressurized when the engine is cold. Also the coolant level has not changed and there are no fuel leaks. I've changed the plugs, the camshaft timing is good, ran it with fresh diesel then ran with diesel injection cleaner. I removed the injectors and viewed the spray pattern on each and they look good. EGR valve is not stuck open. All ball pins in the prechamber are intact. The exhaust tappets have only about 1-2 mm play. I ran a compression test but I'm not sure what the limits are. The highest was 460 psi and the lowest was 410 psi. The other four were 440-450 psi. Thanks again for all your help. Ken Ken, Does the problem still exist? What about the EGR valve, which can stick open? Your compression is excellent, indicating the valves are seating properly, and the hydraulic lifters too. Did you remove the access panel on the pan to look for physical clues. Your injection timer, which drives the Injection pump, could have come apart, that is the only way I see the fuel timing changing without breaking the chain. If it did, the springs are probably in the pan. Regards, Jim Friesen Phoenix AZ 79 300SD, 267 K miles 98 ML 320, 151 K miles ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] MBZ 87 300D Turbo smoke/idle problems.
Ken Rushing wrote: To review: Within a couple of days my car began to smoke terrible (thick grey smoke) and idle very rough. There is no oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. The radiator hoses are not pressurized when the engine is cold. Also the coolant level has not changed and there are no fuel leaks. I've changed the plugs, the camshaft timing is good, ran it with fresh diesel then ran with diesel injection cleaner. I removed the injectors and viewed the spray pattern on each and they look good. EGR valve is not stuck open. All ball pins in the prechamber are intact. The exhaust tappets have only about 1-2 mm play. I ran a compression test but I'm not sure what the limits are. The highest was 460 psi and the lowest was 410 psi. The other four were 440-450 psi. Thanks again for all your help. Smoke is caused by incomplete combustion! Too much fuel, not enough air or insufficient compression. Timing errors can alter all three. Your compression numbers are just fine. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] MBZ 87 300D Turbo smoke/idle problems.
you probably have a bad delivery valve. Ken Rushing wrote: To review: Within a couple of days my car began to smoke terrible (thick grey smoke) and idle very rough. There is no oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. The radiator hoses are not pressurized when the engine is cold. Also the coolant level has not changed and there are no fuel leaks. I've changed the plugs, the camshaft timing is good, ran it with fresh diesel then ran with diesel injection cleaner. I removed the injectors and viewed the spray pattern on each and they look good. EGR valve is not stuck open. All ball pins in the prechamber are intact. The exhaust tappets have only about 1-2 mm play. I ran a compression test but I'm not sure what the limits are. The highest was 460 psi and the lowest was 410 psi. The other four were 440-450 psi. Thanks again for all your help. Ken ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 87 300TD, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] MBZ 87 300D Turbo smoke/idle problems.
Gray smoke is unburned fuel. Almost has to be an injection problem -- are the opening pressures OK? If so, it's something in the IP, either bad pressure valves or actual plunger/sleeve damage. Check for leaking fuel lines - if they leak out, air leaks in under suction! The fuel preheater and small filter are all under suction, so you could have a leak at the preheater thermostat or associated lines. A stream of small bubbles in the clear filter is an air leak. A leaking pressure valve or seal will usually cause rough running a terrible injector knock (from late injection) but usually no smoke, as there is no fuel being delivered. Check the oil for fuel smell, too -- if the IP is leaking out the bottom seals on the plungers, it will dilute the oil and cause havoc. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
