Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Curley wrote:
> No, no you, your namesake, mao tse dung

That commie is not my namesake.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

No, no you, your namesake, mao tse dung


Mountain Man via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 15, 2016 at 7:21 PMvia Postbox 
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Not me.
mao



Curley McLain <mailto:126die...@gmail.com>
June 15, 2016 at 2:58 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
All Libs believe the popos wil protect them.  They will!   Just like 
they protected all 300 in the Pulse.  100 down, 200 rounds in 4 hours.


Saame way lenin protected everyone, same way stalin protected 
everyone, same way mao protected everyone, same way pol pot protected 
everyone, same way hug  protected everyone, same way fidel protected 
everyone.


No thanks.  I will take the same route the colonists took.  Carry it 
to church



Meade Dillon via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 15, 2016 at 9:41 AMvia Postbox 
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Hmm, reminds me of the lady killed by her estranged husband; she made
repeated requests to local authorities for a CC permit, had a no-contact
order approved by court but local police steadfastly refused to grant a CC
permit. One day she gets out of her car after getting home and hubby
(waiting outside) attacks and kills her with a knife.

So if Angie starts getting death threats and some thug makes it clear he
wants to harm her, you like the idea of waiting to get approval before
she'd be able to carry a pistol to protect herself? Not I...

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
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Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 15, 2016 at 9:31 AMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
Firearms ID, basically the town registering that I'm okay to have 
guns.I'm actually going to apply for concealed carry which is the 
price. I could get an FID based on the hunter's safety class I took 
when I was 15, for CC I'll need to take a 1 day safety class which 
probably isn't a bad idea anyway as a refresher.
I probably won't get the CC this round, our local police chief is a 
bit of a hard ass about it but FID is a must issue, which is to say 
unless he has a specific issue with me, like if I were a felon, he has 
to give me the permit.When the FID comes up for renewal in 5 years or 
so if I've kept my nose clean the step up to CC is pretty much assured.

-Curt

From: Meade Dillon <dillonm...@gmail.com>
To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>

Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

FID?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


If the wind blows right I can hear the local rod and gun club from my 
house.
Which reminds me I need to get to work on my FID. I've never had guns 
in MA, originally since I'd planned to move back to Maine but its 
time. My buddy Ben is always bugging me to go hunting. He hunts steady 
from September to the new year.

-Curt







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Meade Dillon via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 15, 2016 at 9:17 AMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

FID?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Curley wrote:
> ...same way mao protected everyone...

Not me.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

OK Don wrote:
> Screw the permits, carry if you're scared, don't if you're not.

+1
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Yes, there are still surviving copies of the laws imposing a fine for not 
carrying your weapon(s).  On some PBS show the other night, men had the choice 
of a long gun or two pistols.  Fine was six pence I think.

I carried a pistol and ammo (two full magazines) for a year in a hot sandy 
place, most had to carry rifles.  Eat, work, bathroom, gym, sleep.  Men, women, 
everyone carried.

I only left my pistol behind in the bathroom once...
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On June 15, 2016 4:02:21 PM EDT, OK Don via Mercedes  
wrote:
>Do you really think the colonists carried a gun with them all the time?
>Crazy.
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On June 14, 2016 at 1:06 AM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  wrote:As a matter of fact, the NRA supported the current background check system, much to the dismay of many members.And now they're joining Trump in promoting 'no guns for people on secret government lists', or at least 'no guns until/unless the FBI says you can have them'.http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/johannes-paulsen/nra-endorses-no-fly-no-buy-gun-sales-delay/
 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Do you really think the colonists carried a gun with them all the time?
Crazy.

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>   I will take the same route the colonists took.  Carry it to church
>

OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

All Libs believe the popos wil protect them.  They will!   Just like 
they protected all 300 in the Pulse.  100 down, 200 rounds in 4 hours.


Saame way lenin protected everyone, same way stalin protected everyone, 
same way mao protected everyone, same way pol pot protected everyone, 
same way hug  protected everyone, same way fidel protected everyone.


No thanks.  I will take the same route the colonists took.  Carry it to 
church



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
June 15, 2016 at 9:41 AMvia Postbox 


Hmm, reminds me of the lady killed by her estranged husband; she made
repeated requests to local authorities for a CC permit, had a no-contact
order approved by court but local police steadfastly refused to grant a CC
permit. One day she gets out of her car after getting home and hubby
(waiting outside) attacks and kills her with a knife.

So if Angie starts getting death threats and some thug makes it clear he
wants to harm her, you like the idea of waiting to get approval before
she'd be able to carry a pistol to protect herself? Not I...

-


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

The whole logic doesn't make sense to me - if it's concealed, then no one
knows you have it, why get a permit to hide something? If you pull it out
to use it, it's no longer concealed, it's out in the open. Does a concealed
permit allow you to un-conceal it? Huh???

Screw the permits, carry if you're scared, don't if you're not.

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Oh, I didn't mean shoot him in advance. I meant get your concealed carry
> permit before you actually NEED a concealed carry permit, and hope you
> never really need it...
> Like car insurance, you don't go looking for car insurance after something
> happens.
> -Curt
>

-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Interesting, Maine did the same thing recently. Heres hoping they have the same 
result.
-Curt

  From: G Mann <g2ma...@gmail.com>
 To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:55 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
My state, as of 2 years ago, wisely abolished the requirement for a "concealed 
carry permit".. it is now not required that you be granted a "permit" to carry, 
any way you so choose.. open or discretely. 

Carry permits are still available, because other states recognize such things 
and have reciprocity agreements to honor concealed permits from this state, 
should you choose to travel and protect yourself.

Amazingly, crime has gone down, since the law went into effect, not up, as the 
Anti Right to Self Defense groups predicted..  


|  | Virus-free. www.avast.com  |


On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Oh, I didn't mean shoot him in advance. I meant get your concealed carry permit 
before you actually NEED a concealed carry permit, and hope you never really 
need it...
Like car insurance, you don't go looking for car insurance after something 
happens.
-Curt

      From: Scott Ritchey <ritche...@nc.rr.com>
 To: 'Curt Raymond' <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; 'Mercedes Discussion List' 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:44 PM
 Subject: RE: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Two points: 

It's generally illegal to use lethal force against someone until he/she is 
actually in the process of trying to kill (or do grievous bodily harm to) you 
or someone you protect.

Open vs concealed carry, in public, is an ongoing discussion; but open carry 
gives up the element of surprise while concealed carry is a deterrent because 
any potential victim might be armed. 

> -Original Message-
> From: Curt Raymond via Mercedes
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:59 AM
>
> Which is why you ought to take care of such things in advance. Besides she
> could always open carry...
> -Curt
>



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Not only that, but many (most?) of the old-line gun companies were in New
England until recently.  After the Newtown knee-jerk, many of these
companies built new plants in more gun-friendly states and are incrementally
moving their operations south and west.  

Incidentally, the talking point that gun manufacturers oppose mandatory
background checks is merde. Mandatory background checks through an FFL are
good for selling new guns and bad for selling used guns.

> -Original Message-
> From: Joel Cairo
> via Mercedes
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:50 AM
> 
> It is interesting and ironic that Massachusetts, where the shot heard
'round
> the world was fired by militia men, now has stringent Second Amendment
> restrictions, the Second Amendment being enacted exactly for the reason
the
> Massachusetts militia men were able to eject his kingliness.  What would
they
> think about the local Sheriff being the one to determine whether a free
man
> could defend his life and liberty?
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[G Mann via Mercedes]

My state, as of 2 years ago, wisely abolished the requirement for a
"concealed carry permit".. it is now not required that you be granted a
"permit" to carry, any way you so choose.. open or discretely.

Carry permits are still available, because other states recognize such
things and have reciprocity agreements to honor concealed permits from this
state, should you choose to travel and protect yourself.

Amazingly, crime has gone down, since the law went into effect, not up, as
the Anti Right to Self Defense groups predicted..

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On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Oh, I didn't mean shoot him in advance. I meant get your concealed carry
> permit before you actually NEED a concealed carry permit, and hope you
> never really need it...
> Like car insurance, you don't go looking for car insurance after something
> happens.
> -Curt
>
>   From: Scott Ritchey <ritche...@nc.rr.com>
>  To: 'Curt Raymond' <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; 'Mercedes Discussion List' <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:44 PM
>  Subject: RE: [MBZ] OT: Next question
>
> Two points:
>
> It's generally illegal to use lethal force against someone until he/she is
> actually in the process of trying to kill (or do grievous bodily harm to)
> you or someone you protect.
>
> Open vs concealed carry, in public, is an ongoing discussion; but open
> carry gives up the element of surprise while concealed carry is a deterrent
> because any potential victim might be armed.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Curt Raymond via Mercedes
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:59 AM
> >
> > Which is why you ought to take care of such things in advance. Besides
> she
> > could always open carry...
> > -Curt
> >
>
>
>
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> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I have a super soaker that I hide away, just in case I'm attacked by a
feral cat in the back yard.

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Oh, I didn't mean shoot him in advance. I meant get your concealed carry
> permit before you actually NEED a concealed carry permit, and hope you
> never really need it...
> Like car insurance, you don't go looking for car insurance after something
> happens.
> -Curt
>
>   From: Scott Ritchey <ritche...@nc.rr.com>
>  To: 'Curt Raymond' <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; 'Mercedes Discussion List' <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:44 PM
>  Subject: RE: [MBZ] OT: Next question
>
> Two points:
>
> It's generally illegal to use lethal force against someone until he/she is
> actually in the process of trying to kill (or do grievous bodily harm to)
> you or someone you protect.
>
> Open vs concealed carry, in public, is an ongoing discussion; but open
> carry gives up the element of surprise while concealed carry is a deterrent
> because any potential victim might be armed.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Curt Raymond via Mercedes
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:59 AM
> >
> > Which is why you ought to take care of such things in advance. Besides
> she
> > could always open carry...
> > -Curt
> >
>
>
>
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> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Oh, I didn't mean shoot him in advance. I meant get your concealed carry permit 
before you actually NEED a concealed carry permit, and hope you never really 
need it...
Like car insurance, you don't go looking for car insurance after something 
happens.
-Curt

  From: Scott Ritchey <ritche...@nc.rr.com>
 To: 'Curt Raymond' <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; 'Mercedes Discussion List' 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:44 PM
 Subject: RE: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
Two points:  

It's generally illegal to use lethal force against someone until he/she is 
actually in the process of trying to kill (or do grievous bodily harm to) you 
or someone you protect.

Open vs concealed carry, in public, is an ongoing discussion; but open carry 
gives up the element of surprise while concealed carry is a deterrent because 
any potential victim might be armed.  

> -Original Message-
> From: Curt Raymond via Mercedes
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:59 AM
> 
> Which is why you ought to take care of such things in advance. Besides she
> could always open carry...
> -Curt
> 


  
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Two points:  

It's generally illegal to use lethal force against someone until he/she is 
actually in the process of trying to kill (or do grievous bodily harm to) you 
or someone you protect.

Open vs concealed carry, in public, is an ongoing discussion; but open carry 
gives up the element of surprise while concealed carry is a deterrent because 
any potential victim might be armed.  

> -Original Message-
> From: Curt Raymond via Mercedes
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:59 AM
> 
> Which is why you ought to take care of such things in advance. Besides she
> could always open carry...
> -Curt
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Next one probably will be too, even if its a woman...
-Curt

  From: Mountain Man via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Mountain Man <maontin@gmail.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 12:37 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
Curley wrote:
> It is safe to assume everything BO sez is a lie.

The previous men in that position were also giant liars, don't forget.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Curley wrote:
> It is safe to assume everything BO sez is a lie.

The previous men in that position were also giant liars, don't forget.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Whole lot less stringent than a lot of other places, it'd be more fair to call 
it a money grab.Take a safety class, pay you (I think) $50 and get an FID. 
Remember, must issue...
I believe theres a way to contest a failed issue, like if you thought the chief 
only did it because he hates you for dating his daughter or something.
-Curt

  From: Joel Cairo via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Joel Cairo <buggeredbenzm...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:49 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
It is interesting and ironic that Massachusetts, where the shot heard 
'round the world was fired by militia men, now has stringent Second 
Amendment restrictions, the Second Amendment being enacted exactly for 
the reason the Massachusetts militia men were able to eject his 
kingliness.  What would they think about the local Sheriff being the one 
to determine whether a free man could defend his life and liberty?

--JC


On 6/15/16 10:41 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
> Hmm, reminds me of the lady killed by her estranged husband; she made
> repeated requests to local authorities for a CC permit, had a no-contact
> order approved by court but local police steadfastly refused to grant a CC
> permit.  One day she gets out of her car after getting home and hubby
> (waiting outside) attacks and kills her with a knife.
>
> So if Angie starts getting death threats and some thug makes it clear he
> wants to harm her, you like the idea of waiting to get approval before
> she'd be able to carry a pistol to protect herself?  Not I...
>
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> Firearms ID, basically the town registering that I'm okay to have guns.I'm
>> actually going to apply for concealed carry which is the price. I could get
>> an FID based on the hunter's safety class I took when I was 15, for CC I'll
>> need to take a 1 day safety class which probably isn't a bad idea anyway as
>> a refresher.
>> I probably won't get the CC this round, our local police chief is a bit of
>> a hard ass about it but FID is a must issue, which is to say unless he has
>> a specific issue with me, like if I were a felon, he has to give me the
>> permit.When the FID comes up for renewal in 5 years or so if I've kept my
>> nose clean the step up to CC is pretty much assured.
>> -Curt
>>
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-- 
--BB


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Which is why you ought to take care of such things in advance. Besides she 
could always open carry...
-Curt

  From: Meade Dillon <dillonm...@gmail.com>
 To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:41 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
Hmm, reminds me of the lady killed by her estranged husband; she made repeated 
requests to local authorities for a CC permit, had a no-contact order approved 
by court but local police steadfastly refused to grant a CC permit.  One day 
she gets out of her car after getting home and hubby (waiting outside) attacks 
and kills her with a knife.

So if Angie starts getting death threats and some thug makes it clear he wants 
to harm her, you like the idea of waiting to get approval before she'd be able 
to carry a pistol to protect herself?  Not I...

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Firearms ID, basically the town registering that I'm okay to have guns.I'm 
actually going to apply for concealed carry which is the price. I could get an 
FID based on the hunter's safety class I took when I was 15, for CC I'll need 
to take a 1 day safety class which probably isn't a bad idea anyway as a 
refresher.
I probably won't get the CC this round, our local police chief is a bit of a 
hard ass about it but FID is a must issue, which is to say unless he has a 
specific issue with me, like if I were a felon, he has to give me the 
permit.When the FID comes up for renewal in 5 years or so if I've kept my nose 
clean the step up to CC is pretty much assured.
-Curt   




  
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

It is interesting and ironic that Massachusetts, where the shot heard 
'round the world was fired by militia men, now has stringent Second 
Amendment restrictions, the Second Amendment being enacted exactly for 
the reason the Massachusetts militia men were able to eject his 
kingliness.  What would they think about the local Sheriff being the one 
to determine whether a free man could defend his life and liberty?


--JC


On 6/15/16 10:41 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

Hmm, reminds me of the lady killed by her estranged husband; she made
repeated requests to local authorities for a CC permit, had a no-contact
order approved by court but local police steadfastly refused to grant a CC
permit.  One day she gets out of her car after getting home and hubby
(waiting outside) attacks and kills her with a knife.

So if Angie starts getting death threats and some thug makes it clear he
wants to harm her, you like the idea of waiting to get approval before
she'd be able to carry a pistol to protect herself?  Not I...

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Firearms ID, basically the town registering that I'm okay to have guns.I'm
actually going to apply for concealed carry which is the price. I could get
an FID based on the hunter's safety class I took when I was 15, for CC I'll
need to take a 1 day safety class which probably isn't a bad idea anyway as
a refresher.
I probably won't get the CC this round, our local police chief is a bit of
a hard ass about it but FID is a must issue, which is to say unless he has
a specific issue with me, like if I were a felon, he has to give me the
permit.When the FID comes up for renewal in 5 years or so if I've kept my
nose clean the step up to CC is pretty much assured.
-Curt


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--
--BB


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Hmm, reminds me of the lady killed by her estranged husband; she made
repeated requests to local authorities for a CC permit, had a no-contact
order approved by court but local police steadfastly refused to grant a CC
permit.  One day she gets out of her car after getting home and hubby
(waiting outside) attacks and kills her with a knife.

So if Angie starts getting death threats and some thug makes it clear he
wants to harm her, you like the idea of waiting to get approval before
she'd be able to carry a pistol to protect herself?  Not I...

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Firearms ID, basically the town registering that I'm okay to have guns.I'm
> actually going to apply for concealed carry which is the price. I could get
> an FID based on the hunter's safety class I took when I was 15, for CC I'll
> need to take a 1 day safety class which probably isn't a bad idea anyway as
> a refresher.
> I probably won't get the CC this round, our local police chief is a bit of
> a hard ass about it but FID is a must issue, which is to say unless he has
> a specific issue with me, like if I were a felon, he has to give me the
> permit.When the FID comes up for renewal in 5 years or so if I've kept my
> nose clean the step up to CC is pretty much assured.
> -Curt
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The Russian ones are interesting because their metallurgy wasn't anything 
exciting so the castings are huge to make up for quality control issues. The 
Finns refined the design considerably to make a much nicer to use firearm.
-Curt

  From: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
 To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:23 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
Some of them were made by reminton under contract for the rookiesbefore 1910.  
I'd expect those to be nice if you could find one.


   Curt Raymond via Mercedes  June 15, 2016 at 8:59 AM via Postbox  In many 
circles its heresy to say so but I've never been that impressed with the M1 as 
a shooting rifle. Its a lovely design and very rugged but its heavy and not 
particularly accurate. For accuracy the M16 is vastly superior which shouldn't 
be all that surprising considering it benefited from 30+ years of advancement.
Actually for a military rifle I prefer the Moisin-Nagant bolt action, 
particularly the Finnish variant...
-Curt

 From: Curley McLain via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 11:34 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
 
Good info.  I have never actually seen the insides of an M1.  After he 
kicked the bucket, I found out my very quiet neighbor was known far and 
wide for refinishing and repairing the M1 wood.  Only once did he ever 
talk much, and that was not long before he kicked off.  He was only in 
his 50s.  Had I found out, I might have been able to handle one.

When I was a kid, I remember the monkey ward sale papers have several 
typed of rif les  for sale  for around $20 and they also were selling mi 
car bines.  That all ended in 1963.  I've wished many times I had 
ordered a few.


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   Curley McLain  June 14, 2016 at 10:34 PM via Postbox  
Good info.  I have never actually seen the insides of an M1.  After he kicked 
the bucket, I found out my very quiet neighbor was known far and wide for 
refinishing and repairing the M1 wood.   Only once did he ever talk much, and 
that was not long before he kicked off.  He was only in his 50s.  Had I found 
out, I might have been able to handle one.

When I was a kid, I remember the monkey ward sale papers have several typed of 
rif les  for sale  for around $20 and they also were selling mi car bines.  
That all ended in 1963.  I've wished many times I had ordered a few.


   Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  June 14, 2016 at 10:21 PM via Postbox  The M-1 
rifle had an unusual arrangement.  The en-bloc clip (which held 8
cartridges) was actually inserted into the top of the rifle.  An internal
magazine fed cartridges  into the chamber while the clip remained in the
rifle.  The clip ejected from the bottom of the rifle after the last round
was fired.  This hybrid design may have contributed to the confusion between
clips and magazines.  Many older rifles used a stripper clip that  attached
above an internal magazine such that the rifleman manually pushed the stack
of cartridges down the clip and into the magazine.  The awful, hated black
rifle (aka Armalite 15/16 pattern) normally uses a 20 or 30 round detachable
magazine.  Military cartridges come in 10-round stripper clips with an
adapter called a "spoon".  You can attach the loaded clip to the top of the
magazine (with the spoon) and load all 10 rounds with one authoritative
push.  

As a point of information, in many states you cannot hunt deer with an AR-15
or other rifle using the military 5.56 (aka .223) cartridge because it is
not considered sufficiently powerful for large game.  The .223 cartridge
started like as a varmint load.


-Original Message-
From: Curley McLain via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 10:47 PM

Not to argue, as I am sure you are technically correct, and I believe the
military does use that nomenclature.  Out here in the sticks, I always

heard

the M1 type as a "stripper clip" while the replaceable magazine was called

a

clip.  The origin of magazine was where (black) powder was stored.



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   Curley McLain  June 14, 2016

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Firearms ID, basically the town registering that I'm okay to have guns.I'm 
actually going to apply for concealed carry which is the price. I could get an 
FID based on the hunter's safety class I took when I was 15, for CC I'll need 
to take a 1 day safety class which probably isn't a bad idea anyway as a 
refresher.
I probably won't get the CC this round, our local police chief is a bit of a 
hard ass about it but FID is a must issue, which is to say unless he has a 
specific issue with me, like if I were a felon, he has to give me the 
permit.When the FID comes up for renewal in 5 years or so if I've kept my nose 
clean the step up to CC is pretty much assured.
-Curt

  From: Meade Dillon <dillonm...@gmail.com>
 To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:17 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
FID?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

If the wind blows right I can hear the local rod and gun club from my house.
Which reminds me I need to get to work on my FID. I've never had guns in MA, 
originally since I'd planned to move back to Maine but its time. My buddy Ben 
is always bugging me to go hunting. He hunts steady from September to the new 
year.
-Curt

     




  
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

credit reports are also used for nefarious things.  If I were dictator 
for a day first I'd abolish the IRS and ex  cute a few of em 
(deserving)  then abolish credit reports as a business.  If a a bank or 
retailer wants to keep credit info for their customers, fine, but the CR 
business is unfair.



Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 15, 2016 at 9:03 AMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

Correct, it needs to be like your credit report with a way to check on yourself 
and to correct the record if need be.
-Curt

   From: Scott Ritchey via Mercedes<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
  To: 'Mercedes Discussion List'<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Scott Ritchey<ritche...@nc.rr.com>
  Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 12:20 AM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Here's the problem.  Suppose you "fail" the background check.  It's like the
no-fly list.  Like all such government databases, it's full of errors (both
ways) and the appeal process is nearly prohibitive.  If the IRS
discriminated against organizations they don't like, don't you think the ATF
(you know, the Fast and Furious guys) might do the same?  Don't forget the
phrase: "foreign and domestic."  It is a key part of the oath of office of
every soldier and federal officer.


-Original Message-
From:  Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 12:53 PM

The state of WA has implemented a universal check law. If I want to sell

or

gift to a hunting buddy I've known for 50 years I need to go to an FFL

holder

and fork over $25. The check can take up to a few days. If it were

actually free

and instant it would be less onerous.






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Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 14, 2016 at 11:20 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

Here's the problem.  Suppose you "fail" the background check.  It's like the
no-fly list.  Like all such government databases, it's full of errors (both
ways) and the appeal process is nearly prohibitive.  If the IRS
discriminated against organizations they don't like, don't you think the ATF
(you know, the Fast and Furious guys) might do the same?  Don't forget the
phrase: "foreign and domestic."  It is a key part of the oath of office of
every soldier and federal officer.


-Original Message-
From:  Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 12:53 PM

The state of WA has implemented a universal check law. If I want to sell

or

gift to a hunting buddy I've known for 50 years I need to go to an FFL

holder

and fork over $25. The check can take up to a few days. If it were

actually free

and instant it would be less onerous.






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Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 13, 2016 at 12:55 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

So are you complete de-regulation?
I'm not a big fan of regulation but I think there are some people who 
clearly shouldn't have guns. The shooter in Orlando for instance. If 
the laws currently on the books for background checks had been doing 
their job he wouldn't have been able to legally buy guns in the first 
place considering he was a known wife-beating anti-social, pretty much 
all around not-good-guy.
I don't think that instant check infringes on my rights to own a gun 
in any way. More over supporting it would be a win for the NRA since 
polls seem to show most people agree with me. Instead the NRA just 
looks completely obstructionist and their "good guy with a gun" mantra 
just gives the anti-gun crowd more fodder.

-Curt

From: Meade Dillon <dillonm...@gmail.com>
To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>

Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Well Curt, perhaps the NRA is trying to follow that part of the second 
amendment that says "shall not be infringed".  Seems to me that 
infringements on the second amendment pretty much abound these days, 
like in "gun free" zones.  Laws that prevent law-

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

FID?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> If the wind blows right I can hear the local rod and gun club from my
> house.
> Which reminds me I need to get to work on my FID. I've never had guns in
> MA, originally since I'd planned to move back to Maine but its time. My
> buddy Ben is always bugging me to go hunting. He hunts steady from
> September to the new year.
> -Curt
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Some of them were made by reminton under contract for the rookiesbefore 
1910.  I'd expect those to be nice if you could find one.



Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 15, 2016 at 8:59 AMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
In many circles its heresy to say so but I've never been that 
impressed with the M1 as a shooting rifle. Its a lovely design and 
very rugged but its heavy and not particularly accurate. For accuracy 
the M16 is vastly superior which shouldn't be all that surprising 
considering it benefited from 30+ years of advancement.
Actually for a military rifle I prefer the Moisin-Nagant bolt action, 
particularly the Finnish variant...

-Curt

From: Curley McLain via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Good info.  I have never actually seen the insides of an M1.  After he
kicked the bucket, I found out my very quiet neighbor was known far and
wide for refinishing and repairing the M1 wood.  Only once did he ever
talk much, and that was not long before he kicked off.  He was only in
his 50s.  Had I found out, I might have been able to handle one.

When I was a kid, I remember the monkey ward sale papers have several
typed of rif les  for sale  for around $20 and they also were selling mi
car bines.  That all ended in 1963.  I've wished many times I had
ordered a few.


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Curley McLain <mailto:126die...@gmail.com>
June 14, 2016 at 10:34 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
Good info.  I have never actually seen the insides of an M1.  After he 
kicked the bucket, I found out my very quiet neighbor was known far 
and wide for refinishing and repairing the M1 wood.   Only once did he 
ever talk much, and that was not long before he kicked off.  He was 
only in his 50s.  Had I found out, I might have been able to handle one.


When I was a kid, I remember the monkey ward sale papers have several 
typed of rif les  for sale  for around $20 and they also were selling 
mi car bines.  That all ended in 1963.  I've wished many times I had 
ordered a few.



Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 14, 2016 at 10:21 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

The M-1 rifle had an unusual arrangement.  The en-bloc clip (which held 8
cartridges) was actually inserted into the top of the rifle.  An internal
magazine fed cartridges  into the chamber while the clip remained in the
rifle.  The clip ejected from the bottom of the rifle after the last round
was fired.  This hybrid design may have contributed to the confusion between
clips and magazines.  Many older rifles used a stripper clip that  attached
above an internal magazine such that the rifleman manually pushed the stack
of cartridges down the clip and into the magazine.  The awful, hated black
rifle (aka Armalite 15/16 pattern) normally uses a 20 or 30 round detachable
magazine.  Military cartridges come in 10-round stripper clips with an
adapter called a "spoon".  You can attach the loaded clip to the top of the
magazine (with the spoon) and load all 10 rounds with one authoritative
push.

As a point of information, in many states you cannot hunt deer with an AR-15
or other rifle using the military 5.56 (aka .223) cartridge because it is
not considered sufficiently powerful for large game.  The .223 cartridge
started like as a varmint load.


-Original Message-
From: Curley McLain via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 10:47 PM

Not to argue, as I am sure you are technically correct, and I believe the
military does use that nomenclature.  Out here in the sticks, I always

heard

the M1 type as a "stripper clip" while the replaceable magazine was called

a

clip.  The origin of magazine was where (black) powder was stored.





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Curley McLain <mailto:126die...@gmail.com>
June 14, 2016 at 9:46 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
Not to

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

If the wind blows right I can hear the local rod and gun club from my house.
Which reminds me I need to get to work on my FID. I've never had guns in MA, 
originally since I'd planned to move back to Maine but its time. My buddy Ben 
is always bugging me to go hunting. He hunts steady from September to the new 
year.
-Curt

  From: Joel Cairo via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Joel Cairo <buggeredbenzm...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:07 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
My neighbors have a second amendmentfest about every Sunday afternoon, 
sometimes with full autos and a cannon.

--JC


On 6/15/16 10:05 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> Depends on where you live. I can go out back and pound some pellets into my 
> old toolbox backstop (thwack, thwack) for an hour to relax and my neighbors 
> don't care. The old coot in the condo next door will probably even come out 
> on his deck and watch...
> -Curt

-- 
--BB


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

My neighbors have a second amendmentfest about every Sunday afternoon, 
sometimes with full autos and a cannon.


--JC


On 6/15/16 10:05 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Depends on where you live. I can go out back and pound some pellets into my old 
toolbox backstop (thwack, thwack) for an hour to relax and my neighbors don't 
care. The old coot in the condo next door will probably even come out on his 
deck and watch...
-Curt


--
--BB


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

This guy was a disciple of a known bad guy who was a body guard for the 
"Blind Sheik" who organized the first Trade Center bombing, and who now 
has a "mosque" in Whorlando where he preaches a unique brand of peace 
and tolerance, sorta consistent with what the shooter's daddy was into, 
i.e., the Taliban.  Wife (wives?) said he was gay (or a queer as a queer 
interviewed on NPR yesterday said, I am so confused now...) and various 
habitues of the queer bar (per the queer on NPR) said he was a regular 
and often got drunk there while hitting on guys.  His daddy apparently 
called him out as a queer or gay in front of his wife (not sure which 
one) at some point, but now says the boy was just scoping out the queer 
bar not frequenting it.  I figured from the git-go this guy was a 
conflicted gay muslim, and decided to sort out his issues by killing 
more than he had transgressed (apparently if you do more "good" deeds 
than bad you can improve your balance sheet and get into paradise).  In 
any case it has presented difficulties to the NPR propagandists on how 
to spin the queer aspect, given the general attitude within the muslim 
community.  They have settled on "conflicted."


PBS news last night had an interesting segment on the AR-15 (which 
apparently is NOT what the shooter used, but it is a scary black 
"automatic-style" gun so doesn't matter) but rather a Sig something.  
The guy doing the demo, a former FBI or ATF guy or something, was fairly 
factual but the PBS weenie was very uncomfortable being in the presence 
of the weapon, unloaded, and many others, at a NVA indoor shooting 
range.  Looked like a good time to me, I might need to find that range 
the next time I'm up that way.


--JC


On 6/15/16 1:33 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Good point.. that is called "Al Taqqyia"  [tak` ie a] which means.. the lie
blessed by allah.. which is any lie you need to tell to further the cause
of islam..

So.. perhaps.. Certainly he did not act alone.. behind the shooter was an
entire support network that convinced him to "die for islam" , armed him,
kept him wound up tight.. etc etc..

Quote from a British Army Officer from 200 years ago in what is now
Pakistan [then "India"] : "If a muslim tells you the sun rises in the East,
put your back to the wall, face West, draw your knife, and wait for his
attack."

Pretty much sums it nicely..

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 9:15 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


What about if that is what he was ordered to do in order to execute his
mission?There is some deal that lying to an infidel is not a lie.  So
maybe going to a bar and acting like a queer is ok if it part of the plan?
  All I know is that you  can't trust anything they say.

It is safe to assume everything BO sez is a lie.  So far that assumption
has been borne out.

Seems like there were some of the 2001 hijackers partied pretty hard the
day before.  I'd have to check my memory on that

G Mann via Mercedes 

June 14, 2016 at 10:53 PMvia Postbox <
https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach
That whole dialogue really doesn't ring true, does it?
If you know islam at all.. you know it has strict prohibition aganist even
touching alcohol, much less drinking it..

World wide, the number of homosexuals executed by muslims and in islamic
countries continues..

Yet.. we are supposed to absorb the sound bite that this guy, who went to
mosque [and a strict one at that] frequented a gay bar, got drunk there?

Naw.. ain't buying that..

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 6:08 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
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Curley McLain 
June 14, 2016 at 8:08 PMvia Postbox <
https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach
WHen it is a moose, the gun did it.  If a non-moose does it, then it is
all about how terrible white christians (and guns) are.


Joel Cairo via Mercedes 
June 14, 2016 at 10:28 AMvia Postbox <
https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach
Now it is being reported that the whackjob was gay, had been drunk at the
bar several times over the last 3 years.  I had wondered this when I heard
it, a very conflicted gay muslim taking out his issues in this way.  Father
(Taliban supporter) called him gay, his former wife, whom he beat, said he
was gay but that the American authorities told her not to say that.

And NPR reporting he used "an automatic-style rifle" and making it all
out to be about the "automatic-style rifle."

--JC




archer75--- via Mercedes 
June 14, 2016 at 7:36 AMvia Postbox <

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Depends on where you live. I can go out back and pound some pellets into my old 
toolbox backstop (thwack, thwack) for an hour to relax and my neighbors don't 
care. The old coot in the condo next door will probably even come out on his 
deck and watch...
-Curt

  From: Curley McLain via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 12:48 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
All good and salient points!  Right now, if we don't take care of the 
domestic, the furrin won't matter.

back in the 50s, and early 60s  anyone could buy whatever they liked, 
and we had none of these problems.

I was probably 12 or 13 when I bouight my Model 61.  I could walk in and 
by Super X or Federals anywhere that sold em.  And I did.  BY the time I 
was 16, the johnson nannnys were starting to take over, and suddenly, I 
no longer could buy anything, unless I went to the old guy  out in the 
sticks who really didn't care what the feds said, and he thought I was 18.

Now, if you are seen walking from your house to the car with a long 
case, someone will call the cops and the swat will show up and put 
hundreds or thousands of holes in everything they see.  Sheesh!

No, no checks and no lists.  We need to go back to 1770, and you should 
be fined if you don't carry and don't go to monthly drill/training.  
(unless you are physically or mentally incapable.)  That will stop the 
nonsense faster than any other alternative I have seen, along with 
following the sane laws.  (fence, only legal immigration, maybe stop 
immigration for 60 or 80 years... stop allowing people in who have no 
interest or intent to assimilate.)  (and fer sure, stop recruiting 'em!)

> Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> June 14, 2016 at 11:20 PMvia Postbox 
> <https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
> Here's the problem.  Suppose you "fail" the background check.  It's like the
> no-fly list.  Like all such government databases, it's full of errors (both
> ways) and the appeal process is nearly prohibitive.  If the IRS
> discriminated against organizations they don't like, don't you think the ATF
> (you know, the Fast and Furious guys) might do the same?  Don't forget the
> phrase: "foreign and domestic."  It is a key part of the oath of office of
> every soldier and federal officer.
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From:  Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 12:53 PM
>>
>> The state of WA has implemented a universal check law. If I want to sell
> or
>> gift to a hunting buddy I've known for 50 years I need to go to an FFL
> holder
>> and fork over $25. The check can take up to a few days. If it were
> actually free
>> and instant it would be less onerous.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
> Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> June 13, 2016 at 12:55 PMvia Postbox 
> <https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
> So are you complete de-regulation?
> I'm not a big fan of regulation but I think there are some people who 
> clearly shouldn't have guns. The shooter in Orlando for instance. If 
> the laws currently on the books for background checks had been doing 
> their job he wouldn't have been able to legally buy guns in the first 
> place considering he was a known wife-beating anti-social, pretty much 
> all around not-good-guy.
> I don't think that instant check infringes on my rights to own a gun 
> in any way. More over supporting it would be a win for the NRA since 
> polls seem to show most people agree with me. Instead the NRA just 
> looks completely obstructionist and their "good guy with a gun" mantra 
> just gives the anti-gun crowd more fodder.
> -Curt
>
> From: Meade Dillon <dillonm...@gmail.com>
> To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
>
> Well Curt, perhaps the NRA is trying to follow that part of the second 
> amendment that says "shall not be infringed".  Seems to me that 
> infringements on the second amendment pretty much abound these days, 
> like in "gun free" zones.  Laws that prevent law-abiding citizens with 
> concealed-carry permits from entering any establishment that serves 
> alcohol h

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Correct, it needs to be like your credit report with a way to check on yourself 
and to correct the record if need be.
-Curt

  From: Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Scott Ritchey <ritche...@nc.rr.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 12:20 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
Here's the problem.  Suppose you "fail" the background check.  It's like the
no-fly list.  Like all such government databases, it's full of errors (both
ways) and the appeal process is nearly prohibitive.  If the IRS
discriminated against organizations they don't like, don't you think the ATF
(you know, the Fast and Furious guys) might do the same?  Don't forget the
phrase: "foreign and domestic."  It is a key part of the oath of office of
every soldier and federal officer.

> -Original Message-
> From:  Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 12:53 PM
> 
> The state of WA has implemented a universal check law. If I want to sell
or
> gift to a hunting buddy I've known for 50 years I need to go to an FFL
holder
> and fork over $25. The check can take up to a few days. If it were
actually free
> and instant it would be less onerous.
> 
> 



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

In many circles its heresy to say so but I've never been that impressed with 
the M1 as a shooting rifle. Its a lovely design and very rugged but its heavy 
and not particularly accurate. For accuracy the M16 is vastly superior which 
shouldn't be all that surprising considering it benefited from 30+ years of 
advancement.
Actually for a military rifle I prefer the Moisin-Nagant bolt action, 
particularly the Finnish variant...
-Curt

  From: Curley McLain via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 11:34 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
Good info.  I have never actually seen the insides of an M1.  After he 
kicked the bucket, I found out my very quiet neighbor was known far and 
wide for refinishing and repairing the M1 wood.  Only once did he ever 
talk much, and that was not long before he kicked off.  He was only in 
his 50s.  Had I found out, I might have been able to handle one.

When I was a kid, I remember the monkey ward sale papers have several 
typed of rif les  for sale  for around $20 and they also were selling mi 
car bines.  That all ended in 1963.  I've wished many times I had 
ordered a few.

> Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> June 14, 2016 at 10:21 PMvia Postbox 
> <https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
> The M-1 rifle had an unusual arrangement.  The en-bloc clip (which held 8
> cartridges) was actually inserted into the top of the rifle.  An internal
> magazine fed cartridges  into the chamber while the clip remained in the
> rifle.  The clip ejected from the bottom of the rifle after the last round
> was fired.  This hybrid design may have contributed to the confusion between
> clips and magazines.  Many older rifles used a stripper clip that  attached
> above an internal magazine such that the rifleman manually pushed the stack
> of cartridges down the clip and into the magazine.  The awful, hated black
> rifle (aka Armalite 15/16 pattern) normally uses a 20 or 30 round detachable
> magazine.  Military cartridges come in 10-round stripper clips with an
> adapter called a "spoon".  You can attach the loaded clip to the top of the
> magazine (with the spoon) and load all 10 rounds with one authoritative
> push.
>
> As a point of information, in many states you cannot hunt deer with an AR-15
> or other rifle using the military 5.56 (aka .223) cartridge because it is
> not considered sufficiently powerful for large game.  The .223 cartridge
> started like as a varmint load.
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Curley McLain via Mercedes
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 10:47 PM
>>
>> Not to argue, as I am sure you are technically correct, and I believe the
>> military does use that nomenclature.  Out here in the sticks, I always
> heard
>> the M1 type as a "stripper clip" while the replaceable magazine was called
> a
>> clip.  The origin of magazine was where (black) powder was stored.
>>
>
>
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> OK Don via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> June 14, 2016 at 1:32 PMvia Postbox 
> <https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
> You are correct -
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:58 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
>
>
> Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> June 14, 2016 at 12:58 AMvia Postbox 
> <https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
> The correct term is magazine. A clip only holds cartridges, normally 
> outside the gun, until they are loaded in a magazine. A magazine may 
> be integral to a gun (like the M-1) or removable (like the M-14 or 
> M-16) and preloaded before being inserted into the gun.
>
>
>
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> OK Don via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> June 13, 2016 at 12:42 PMvia Postbox 
> <https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
> What you really mean is clips that hold large amounts of ammunition. Any
> gun except my single shot shotgun can kill lots of people quickly. So, no,
> a ban on any one particul

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

There are magazines and there are clips. A stripper clip especially is a clip, 
not unlike a hair clip, its a spring arrangement that holds cartridges together.
The big difference is that a clip gets inserted into a magazine, in the case of 
the stripper clip you insert the stripper clip with cartridges into the 
magazine and then remove the stripper clip. Faster and easier than inserting 
the cartridges one by one.
Theres another kind of clip that I don't know the proper name of, which gets 
inserted with the cartridges and ejected with the last cartridge. Again it 
lives in the magazine until ejected.
-Curt

  From: Curley McLain via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 10:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
Not to argue, as I am sure you are technically correct, and I believe 
the military does use that nomenclature.  Out here in the sticks, I 
always heard the M1 type as a "stripper clip" while the replaceable 
magazine was called a clip.  The origin of magazine was where (black) 
powder was stored.

> OK Don via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> June 14, 2016 at 1:32 PMvia Postbox 
> <https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
> You are correct -
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:58 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
>
>
> Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> June 14, 2016 at 12:58 AMvia Postbox 
> <https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
> The correct term is magazine. A clip only holds cartridges, normally 
> outside the gun, until they are loaded in a magazine. A magazine may 
> be integral to a gun (like the M-1) or removable (like the M-14 or 
> M-16) and preloaded before being inserted into the gun.
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
> OK Don via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> June 13, 2016 at 12:42 PMvia Postbox 
> <https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
> What you really mean is clips that hold large amounts of ammunition. Any
> gun except my single shot shotgun can kill lots of people quickly. So, no,
> a ban on any one particular type of gun is not going to have any effect.
> What you need is a ban on radical fundamentalists of nay stripe - they
> should be fair game open season all year long.
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>
>
> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> June 13, 2016 at 12:18 PMvia Postbox 
> <https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
> I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill 
> lots
> of people quickly"
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> June 13, 2016 at 12:11 PMvia Postbox 
> <https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
> They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.
> Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
> -Curt
>
> From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>; Meade Dillon 
> <dillonm...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
>
> Or maybe banning the sale of assault weapons?
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> ___
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>
>
>
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_

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Good point.. that is called "Al Taqqyia"  [tak` ie a] which means.. the lie
blessed by allah.. which is any lie you need to tell to further the cause
of islam..

So.. perhaps.. Certainly he did not act alone.. behind the shooter was an
entire support network that convinced him to "die for islam" , armed him,
kept him wound up tight.. etc etc..

Quote from a British Army Officer from 200 years ago in what is now
Pakistan [then "India"] : "If a muslim tells you the sun rises in the East,
put your back to the wall, face West, draw your knife, and wait for his
attack."

Pretty much sums it nicely..

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 9:15 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> What about if that is what he was ordered to do in order to execute his
> mission?There is some deal that lying to an infidel is not a lie.  So
> maybe going to a bar and acting like a queer is ok if it part of the plan?
>  All I know is that you  can't trust anything they say.
>
> It is safe to assume everything BO sez is a lie.  So far that assumption
> has been borne out.
>
> Seems like there were some of the 2001 hijackers partied pretty hard the
> day before.  I'd have to check my memory on that
>
> G Mann via Mercedes 
>> June 14, 2016 at 10:53 PMvia Postbox <
>> https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach
>> >
>> That whole dialogue really doesn't ring true, does it?
>> If you know islam at all.. you know it has strict prohibition aganist even
>> touching alcohol, much less drinking it..
>>
>> World wide, the number of homosexuals executed by muslims and in islamic
>> countries continues..
>>
>> Yet.. we are supposed to absorb the sound bite that this guy, who went to
>> mosque [and a strict one at that] frequented a gay bar, got drunk there?
>>
>> Naw.. ain't buying that..
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 6:08 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> Curley McLain 
>> June 14, 2016 at 8:08 PMvia Postbox <
>> https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach
>> >
>> WHen it is a moose, the gun did it.  If a non-moose does it, then it is
>> all about how terrible white christians (and guns) are.
>>
>>
>> Joel Cairo via Mercedes 
>> June 14, 2016 at 10:28 AMvia Postbox <
>> https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach
>> >
>> Now it is being reported that the whackjob was gay, had been drunk at the
>> bar several times over the last 3 years.  I had wondered this when I heard
>> it, a very conflicted gay muslim taking out his issues in this way.  Father
>> (Taliban supporter) called him gay, his former wife, whom he beat, said he
>> was gay but that the American authorities told her not to say that.
>>
>> And NPR reporting he used "an automatic-style rifle" and making it all
>> out to be about the "automatic-style rifle."
>>
>> --JC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> archer75--- via Mercedes 
>> June 14, 2016 at 7:36 AMvia Postbox <
>> https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach
>> >
>>
>>> On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>>>
That is the real issue - are you willing to
 risk your self and your family to keep your rights?

>>>
>> And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.
>>> If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you
>>> have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?
>>> The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside
>>> there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is
>>> one shooter or several.
>>> The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They
>>> don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.
>>> If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a
>>> dead  hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of
>>> attack that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or
>>> injured when the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s).
>>> Might be bad news for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste
>>> trained officers in some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is
>>> actually happening.
>>> RB
>>>
>> ~~~
>> The nightclub gaurd, an off-duty police officer, did engage the killer in
>> gun fire before the police arrived.
>> The police engaged the killer in gunfire after they arrived and one
>> officer got shot in the head, but his Kevlar helmet save him.
>> Then the killer holed up in a bathroom with five hostages and began
>> talking to police on his cellphone.
>> 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

military does use that nomenclature.  Out here in the sticks, I always 
heard the M1 type as a "stripper clip" while the replaceable magazine 
was called a clip.


It's not.  The M1 Garand uses a clip to hold the 8 rounds together
which are inserted into the empty magazine en masse.  (You can also
use the clip to load only 2 rounds.)  The SKS uses a stripper clip,
which you 'strip' the rounds off of as you push them into the
magazine with your thumb.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

All good and salient points!  Right now, if we don't take care of the 
domestic, the furrin won't matter.


back in the 50s, and early 60s  anyone could buy whatever they liked, 
and we had none of these problems.


I was probably 12 or 13 when I bouight my Model 61.  I could walk in and 
by Super X or Federals anywhere that sold em.  And I did.  BY the time I 
was 16, the johnson nannnys were starting to take over, and suddenly, I 
no longer could buy anything, unless I went to the old guy  out in the 
sticks who really didn't care what the feds said, and he thought I was 18.


Now, if you are seen walking from your house to the car with a long 
case, someone will call the cops and the swat will show up and put 
hundreds or thousands of holes in everything they see.  Sheesh!


No, no checks and no lists.  We need to go back to 1770, and you should 
be fined if you don't carry and don't go to monthly drill/training.  
(unless you are physically or mentally incapable.)  That will stop the 
nonsense faster than any other alternative I have seen, along with 
following the sane laws.  (fence, only legal immigration, maybe stop 
immigration for 60 or 80 years... stop allowing people in who have no 
interest or intent to assimilate.)  (and fer sure, stop recruiting 'em!)



Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 14, 2016 at 11:20 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

Here's the problem.  Suppose you "fail" the background check.  It's like the
no-fly list.  Like all such government databases, it's full of errors (both
ways) and the appeal process is nearly prohibitive.  If the IRS
discriminated against organizations they don't like, don't you think the ATF
(you know, the Fast and Furious guys) might do the same?  Don't forget the
phrase: "foreign and domestic."  It is a key part of the oath of office of
every soldier and federal officer.


-Original Message-
From:  Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 12:53 PM

The state of WA has implemented a universal check law. If I want to sell

or

gift to a hunting buddy I've known for 50 years I need to go to an FFL

holder

and fork over $25. The check can take up to a few days. If it were

actually free

and instant it would be less onerous.






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Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 13, 2016 at 12:55 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

So are you complete de-regulation?
I'm not a big fan of regulation but I think there are some people who 
clearly shouldn't have guns. The shooter in Orlando for instance. If 
the laws currently on the books for background checks had been doing 
their job he wouldn't have been able to legally buy guns in the first 
place considering he was a known wife-beating anti-social, pretty much 
all around not-good-guy.
I don't think that instant check infringes on my rights to own a gun 
in any way. More over supporting it would be a win for the NRA since 
polls seem to show most people agree with me. Instead the NRA just 
looks completely obstructionist and their "good guy with a gun" mantra 
just gives the anti-gun crowd more fodder.

-Curt

From: Meade Dillon <dillonm...@gmail.com>
To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>

Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Well Curt, perhaps the NRA is trying to follow that part of the second 
amendment that says "shall not be infringed".  Seems to me that 
infringements on the second amendment pretty much abound these days, 
like in "gun free" zones.  Laws that prevent law-abiding citizens with 
concealed-carry permits from entering any establishment that serves 
alcohol has just infringed on the second amendment to that extent that 
over 100 people were shot, and about half died from their wounds.


Great post on Market-Ticker today (I'm borrowing his words) on exactly 
this topic.


http://market-ticker.org/

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a 
disservice in these situations by digging in its heels and refusing 
any gun control measures. Their refusal to sit at the table at all is 
dumb. They should be working across the aisle on background checks, 
it'd be something easy that would show them as good people working 
WITH the antis.






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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Here's the problem.  Suppose you "fail" the background check.  It's like the
no-fly list.  Like all such government databases, it's full of errors (both
ways) and the appeal process is nearly prohibitive.  If the IRS
discriminated against organizations they don't like, don't you think the ATF
(you know, the Fast and Furious guys) might do the same?  Don't forget the
phrase: "foreign and domestic."  It is a key part of the oath of office of
every soldier and federal officer.

> -Original Message-
> From:  Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 12:53 PM
> 
> The state of WA has implemented a universal check law. If I want to sell
or
> gift to a hunting buddy I've known for 50 years I need to go to an FFL
holder
> and fork over $25. The check can take up to a few days. If it were
actually free
> and instant it would be less onerous.
> 
> 



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

What about if that is what he was ordered to do in order to execute his 
mission?There is some deal that lying to an infidel is not a lie.  
So maybe going to a bar and acting like a queer is ok if it part of the 
plan?   All I know is that you  can't trust anything they say.


It is safe to assume everything BO sez is a lie.  So far that assumption 
has been borne out.


Seems like there were some of the 2001 hijackers partied pretty hard the 
day before.  I'd have to check my memory on that



G Mann via Mercedes 
June 14, 2016 at 10:53 PMvia Postbox 


That whole dialogue really doesn't ring true, does it?
If you know islam at all.. you know it has strict prohibition aganist even
touching alcohol, much less drinking it..

World wide, the number of homosexuals executed by muslims and in islamic
countries continues..

Yet.. we are supposed to absorb the sound bite that this guy, who went to
mosque [and a strict one at that] frequented a gay bar, got drunk there?

Naw.. ain't buying that..

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 6:08 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
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Curley McLain 
June 14, 2016 at 8:08 PMvia Postbox 

WHen it is a moose, the gun did it.  If a non-moose does it, then it 
is all about how terrible white christians (and guns) are.



Joel Cairo via Mercedes 
June 14, 2016 at 10:28 AMvia Postbox 

Now it is being reported that the whackjob was gay, had been drunk at 
the bar several times over the last 3 years.  I had wondered this when 
I heard it, a very conflicted gay muslim taking out his issues in this 
way.  Father (Taliban supporter) called him gay, his former wife, whom 
he beat, said he was gay but that the American authorities told her 
not to say that.


And NPR reporting he used "an automatic-style rifle" and making it all 
out to be about the "automatic-style rifle."


--JC




archer75--- via Mercedes 
June 14, 2016 at 7:36 AMvia Postbox 


On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

   That is the real issue - are you willing to
risk your self and your family to keep your rights?



And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.
If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you
have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?
The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside there 
is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is one shooter 
or several.
The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They don't 
want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.
If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead  hero. 
You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of attack that 
makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or
injured when the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s).
Might be bad news for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste 
trained officers in some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is actually 
happening.
RB

~~~
The nightclub gaurd, an off-duty police officer, did engage the killer in gun 
fire before the police arrived.
The police engaged the killer in gunfire after they arrived and one officer got 
shot in the head, but his Kevlar helmet save him.
Then the killer holed up in a bathroom with five hostages and began talking to 
police on his cellphone.
After long conversations, he made comments that sounded like he was going to 
kill the hostages, so the police used some sort of vehicle and punched holes 
through the outside walls into the restrooms.
At some point they ignited a noise bomb to cause confusion and the hostages 
escaped through the punched hole. Up to 30 escaped from another bathroom 
through another hole that had been punched in the wall.
Then the killer came out through the hole and exchanged gunfire with the police 
and was killed.
This was the NYT version of the events from last night. It may be changed after 
hostages have been interviewed and/or some sell their story to the media. If 
this version is true, then the police did ignore their own safety and go after 
the killer, and probably prevented more hostage deaths.
Gerry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[G Mann via Mercedes]

;> Randy Bennell via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> June 13, 2016 at 5:37 PMvia Postbox <
>> https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach
>> >
>>
>>
>> And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.
>>
>> If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you
>> have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?
>>
>> The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside
>> there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is
>> one shooter or several.
>>
>> The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They
>> don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.
>>
>> If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead
>> hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of attack
>> that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or injured when
>> the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s). Might be bad news
>> for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste trained officers in
>> some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is actually happening.
>>
>> RB
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> OK Don via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> June 13, 2016 at 3:55 PMvia Postbox <
>> https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach
>> >
>> Don't make the mistake of equating conservative with anti gun laws. I know
>> very conservative right wing nuts who are scared of their shadows and want
>> all guns banned (too afraid to hold one), and very liberal left wing nuts
>> who will fight to the death to keep their guns. I also know a few (very
>> few) who are in the middle. Left/Right leaning does not seems to inter the
>> equation.
>>
>> I thin it was Benjamin Franklin who said "Those that would give up liberty
>> for security deserve neither". That is the real issue - are you willing to
>> risk your self and your family to keep your rights?
>>
>> Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> June 13, 2016 at 3:39 PMvia Postbox <
>> https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach
>> >
>> Perhaps the NRA could negotiate for a license reciprocity system across
>> the
>> US. Just as security clearances are only checked once every 5 years, a
>> person would go through a background check (for free, of course, since we
>> shouldn't have to pay to exercise a constitutional right) and thereby be
>> licensed for 5 years and could carry anywhere in the US. This could be
>> rescinded via a due process if necessary (domestic violence or other
>> serious
>> conviction, etc) and dealers must receive and check a current list of
>> rescissions. Automated renewal and re-check of record each 5 years.
>>
>> Maybe require a simple qualification course periodically (5 years?).
>>
>> The problem with negotiating has been that it is really just a 1-way
>> street,
>> simply chipping away rights without any benefit to the firearms owners.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
>> Penoff via Mercedes
>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 12:06 PM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List
>> Cc: Dan Penoff
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
>>
>> This has confused and befuddled me for some time.
>>
>> For the life of me I don't understand why the NRA doesn't come to the
>> table.
>> They might get something good out of it rather than giving their
>> opposition
>> even more reason to paint them in a negative light.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
>>>
>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Like George Carlin I do this thing called "Thinking for myself" which is
>>> a
>>>
>> radical idea for most of the world.
>>
>>> This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the
>>>
>> "political equation" pretty much equally.
>>
>>> So no I'm not an NRA radical, in f

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Good info.  I have never actually seen the insides of an M1.  After he 
kicked the bucket, I found out my very quiet neighbor was known far and 
wide for refinishing and repairing the M1 wood.   Only once did he ever 
talk much, and that was not long before he kicked off.  He was only in 
his 50s.  Had I found out, I might have been able to handle one.


When I was a kid, I remember the monkey ward sale papers have several 
typed of rif les  for sale  for around $20 and they also were selling mi 
car bines.  That all ended in 1963.  I've wished many times I had 
ordered a few.



Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
June 14, 2016 at 10:21 PMvia Postbox 


The M-1 rifle had an unusual arrangement.  The en-bloc clip (which held 8
cartridges) was actually inserted into the top of the rifle.  An internal
magazine fed cartridges  into the chamber while the clip remained in the
rifle.  The clip ejected from the bottom of the rifle after the last round
was fired.  This hybrid design may have contributed to the confusion between
clips and magazines.  Many older rifles used a stripper clip that  attached
above an internal magazine such that the rifleman manually pushed the stack
of cartridges down the clip and into the magazine.  The awful, hated black
rifle (aka Armalite 15/16 pattern) normally uses a 20 or 30 round detachable
magazine.  Military cartridges come in 10-round stripper clips with an
adapter called a "spoon".  You can attach the loaded clip to the top of the
magazine (with the spoon) and load all 10 rounds with one authoritative
push.

As a point of information, in many states you cannot hunt deer with an AR-15
or other rifle using the military 5.56 (aka .223) cartridge because it is
not considered sufficiently powerful for large game.  The .223 cartridge
started like as a varmint load.


-Original Message-
From: Curley McLain via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 10:47 PM

Not to argue, as I am sure you are technically correct, and I believe the
military does use that nomenclature.  Out here in the sticks, I always

heard

the M1 type as a "stripper clip" while the replaceable magazine was called

a

clip.  The origin of magazine was where (black) powder was stored.





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OK Don via Mercedes 
June 14, 2016 at 1:32 PMvia Postbox 


You are correct -

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:58 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <


Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
June 14, 2016 at 12:58 AMvia Postbox 

The correct term is magazine. A clip only holds cartridges, normally 
outside the gun, until they are loaded in a magazine. A magazine may 
be integral to a gun (like the M-1) or removable (like the M-14 or 
M-16) and preloaded before being inserted into the gun.





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OK Don via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:42 PMvia Postbox 


What you really mean is clips that hold large amounts of ammunition. Any
gun except my single shot shotgun can kill lots of people quickly. So, no,
a ban on any one particular type of gun is not going to have any effect.
What you need is a ban on radical fundamentalists of nay stripe - they
should be fair game open season all year long.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <


Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:18 PMvia Postbox 

I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill 
lots

of people quickly"

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

The M-1 rifle had an unusual arrangement.  The en-bloc clip (which held 8
cartridges) was actually inserted into the top of the rifle.  An internal
magazine fed cartridges  into the chamber while the clip remained in the
rifle.  The clip ejected from the bottom of the rifle after the last round
was fired.  This hybrid design may have contributed to the confusion between
clips and magazines.  Many older rifles used a stripper clip that  attached
above an internal magazine such that the rifleman manually pushed the stack
of cartridges down the clip and into the magazine.  The awful, hated black
rifle (aka Armalite 15/16 pattern) normally uses a 20 or 30 round detachable
magazine.  Military cartridges come in 10-round stripper clips with an
adapter called a "spoon".  You can attach the loaded clip to the top of the
magazine (with the spoon) and load all 10 rounds with one authoritative
push.  

As a point of information, in many states you cannot hunt deer with an AR-15
or other rifle using the military 5.56 (aka .223) cartridge because it is
not considered sufficiently powerful for large game.  The .223 cartridge
started like as a varmint load.

> -Original Message-
> From: Curley McLain via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 10:47 PM
> 
> Not to argue, as I am sure you are technically correct, and I believe the
> military does use that nomenclature.  Out here in the sticks, I always
heard
> the M1 type as a "stripper clip" while the replaceable magazine was called
a
> clip.  The origin of magazine was where (black) powder was stored.
> 



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Yup.  "Sum of all Fears."  Otherwise, the flic was OK.  I did enjoy Mr.
Clark's clean-up (with his Russian counterpart) at the end.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 12:43 PM
> To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Greg Fiorentino <greg.fiorent...@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> 
> When HollyWierd did that Clancy novel, didn't they morph the evil mooslims
> into NeoNazis?
> 
> Greg
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> clay via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:53 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Cc: clay
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> 
> I am wondering just how long it will take Howllywood to come out with a
> Movie of the Week based on this event.  Are the dead Gay folk the heroes,
or
> does that fall on the cops?  Will the bad guy have horns and be full
> Mslim, or do they go with slightly creepy nerd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> clay
> 
> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
> 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL
> - Beware Nigerian Scammers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 13, 2016, at 3:48 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
> 
> > Rule in the military.. Once the first shot is fired, all battle plans
> > go
> to
> > hell
> >
> > Police train routinely to take down known shooter situations.
> > Government funds, both state and federal are allocated to that
> > training, since 911, and Homeland Security.. 4 hours to bleed to death
> > is a very long time.. if you are the one bleeding..
> >
> > It is why police SWAT units are equipped with level 1 armor with armor
> > plate inserts to take rounds and survive.. as well as other items of
> > superior fire power... sooo..
> >
> > Sorry.. standing outside while people bleed out and more people are
> > killed is "poor police action" ... I choose to take issue with that
> > course of decisions.
> >
> > As well as taking issue that the shooter was on the FBI short list
> > several times before.. Where was Homeland Security, FBI, TSA, and all
> > the other "3 letters" ??
> >
> > I want more for my tax dollars than lip service.. and more lip..
> >
> >
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-
> email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campai
> gn=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b>
> > Virus-free
> >
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-
> email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campai
> gn=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b>
> > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
> >>
> >>>  That is the real issue - are you willing to risk your self and your
> >>> family to keep your rights?
> >>>
> >>>
> >> And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.
> >>
> >> If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would
> >> you have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?
> >>
> >> The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere
> >> inside there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for
> >> sure if it is one shooter or several.
> >>
> >> The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers.
> >> They don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.
> >>
> >> If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a
> >> dead hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated
> >> plan of
> attack
> >> that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or injured
> when
> >> the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s). Might be bad
> >> news for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste trained
> >> officers
> in
> >> some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is actually happening.
> >>
> >> RB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://ww

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Not to argue, as I am sure you are technically correct, and I believe 
the military does use that nomenclature.  Out here in the sticks, I 
always heard the M1 type as a "stripper clip" while the replaceable 
magazine was called a clip.  The origin of magazine was where (black) 
powder was stored.



OK Don via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 14, 2016 at 1:32 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

You are correct -

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:58 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <


Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 14, 2016 at 12:58 AMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
The correct term is magazine. A clip only holds cartridges, normally 
outside the gun, until they are loaded in a magazine. A magazine may 
be integral to a gun (like the M-1) or removable (like the M-14 or 
M-16) and preloaded before being inserted into the gun.





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OK Don via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 13, 2016 at 12:42 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

What you really mean is clips that hold large amounts of ammunition. Any
gun except my single shot shotgun can kill lots of people quickly. So, no,
a ban on any one particular type of gun is not going to have any effect.
What you need is a ban on radical fundamentalists of nay stripe - they
should be fair game open season all year long.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <


Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 13, 2016 at 12:18 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill 
lots

of people quickly"

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
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Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 13, 2016 at 12:11 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.
Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
-Curt

From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>; Meade Dillon 
<dillonm...@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Or maybe banning the sale of assault weapons?

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

z.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

OK Don via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 13, 2016 at 3:55 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

Don't make the mistake of equating conservative with anti gun laws. I know
very conservative right wing nuts who are scared of their shadows and want
all guns banned (too afraid to hold one), and very liberal left wing nuts
who will fight to the death to keep their guns. I also know a few (very
few) who are in the middle. Left/Right leaning does not seems to inter the
equation.

I thin it was Benjamin Franklin who said "Those that would give up liberty
for security deserve neither". That is the real issue - are you willing to
risk your self and your family to keep your rights?

Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 13, 2016 at 3:39 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

Perhaps the NRA could negotiate for a license reciprocity system across the
US. Just as security clearances are only checked once every 5 years, a
person would go through a background check (for free, of course, since we
shouldn't have to pay to exercise a constitutional right) and thereby be
licensed for 5 years and could carry anywhere in the US. This could be
rescinded via a due process if necessary (domestic violence or other serious
conviction, etc) and dealers must receive and check a current list of
rescissions. Automated renewal and re-check of record each 5 years.

Maybe require a simple qualification course periodically (5 years?).

The problem with negotiating has been that it is really just a 1-way street,
simply chipping away rights without any benefit to the firearms owners.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Penoff via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 12:06 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Dan Penoff
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

This has confused and befuddled me for some time.

For the life of me I don't understand why the NRA doesn't come to the table.
They might get something good out of it rather than giving their opposition
even more reason to paint them in a negative light.

Dan

Sent from my iPad


On Jun 13, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes

<mercedes@okiebenz.com>  wrote:

Like George Carlin I do this thing called "Thinking for myself" which is a

radical idea for most of the world.

This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the

"political equation" pretty much equally.

So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a

disservice in these situations by digging in its heels and refusing any gun
control measures. Their refusal to sit at the table at all is dumb. They
should be working across the aisle on background checks, it'd be something
easy that would show them as good people working WITH the antis. Then when
the control crowd proposes something wacky they'd be able to say "Hey, we've
been working with you!" as it is the other side gets to say "You just fight
us, clearly you want people to die."

*sigh*
In the end the control crowd is wrong, banning high capacity mags wouldn't

have made a difference in this case, the guy had plenty of time to reload
repeatedly anyway.

Anyway, remember you're not anti-gun you're pro-stormtrooper, those are

they people who will be charged with taking guns away from the legal gun
owners...

-Curt

  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel<astrasfo...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Wow, so many of you have been radicalized by the NRA.  I'm impressed.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes<
mercedes@okiebenz.com>  wrote:


How'd that work in Europe?  How's that work in the south side of Chicago?

--JC



On 6/13/16 1:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill
lots
of people quickly"

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes<
mercedes@okiebenz.com>  wrote:

They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.

Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
-Curt

 From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
   To: Mercedes Discussion List<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel<astrasfo...@gmail.com>; Meade Dillon<
dillonm...@gmail.com>
   Sent: Monday, June 13, 2Like George Carlin I do this thing called

"Thinking for myself" which is a radical idea for most of the world.

This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the

"political equation" pretty much equa

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

"Do not attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by
stupidity". Hanlon's razor.

I wish people in general, and new people is specific, would not talk about
things they have no knowledge of (written by someone who just confused
clips with magazines). I had to cringe several times when watching Longmire
as they showed a close range shotgun blast as pellets covering the whole
side of a head and talking of CB radio and ham radio as the same thing.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> And NPR reporting he used "an automatic-style rifle" and making it all out
> to be about the "automatic-style rifle."
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

How many ex-wives are there?  Just heard on Flush that one of the ex-wives
was with him when he purchased the ammo for the attack.

Seems rather foolish to me to alert media about a pending arrest, name the
suspect, and give them some time to either (a) leave or (b) conduct their
own attack or (c) prepare the suicide bomb to take a few police out when
they come to get you.  Just sayin.
-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Is this the one he also beat, or the first wife he beat, or both?  She
> also said the FBI told her not to mention to anyone that he was gay.
>
> --JC
>
>
>
> On 6/14/16 2:17 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> I read today that the alleged accomplice is Salman Noor, his former wife.
>> She is alleged to have helped him scout Disney World as a target, and knew
>> in advance of the actual attack. The report states that she will be
>> arrested
>> within the next 24-48 hrs.
>>
>> This is "breaking" and unconfirmed.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

Is this the one he also beat, or the first wife he beat, or both?  She 
also said the FBI told her not to mention to anyone that he was gay.


--JC


On 6/14/16 2:17 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes wrote:

I read today that the alleged accomplice is Salman Noor, his former wife.
She is alleged to have helped him scout Disney World as a target, and knew
in advance of the actual attack. The report states that she will be arrested
within the next 24-48 hrs.

This is "breaking" and unconfirmed.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Strasfogel via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 8:43 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

I heard on the news this morning (not NPR) that authorities were looking to
arrest a second individual.  Anyone know about this?

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


--RR wrote:

Now it is being reported that the whackjob was gay, had been drunk at

the

bar several times over the last 3 years.  I had wondered this when I

heard

it, a very conflicted gay muslim taking out his issues in this way.

Father

(Taliban supporter) called him gay, his former wife, whom he beat, said

he

was gay but that the American authorities told her not to say that.

And NPR reporting he used "an automatic-style rifle" and making it all

out

to be about the "automatic-style rifle."

This all adds up to "false flag" it seems.
mao

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--
--BB


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

You are correct -

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:58 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The correct term is magazine.  A clip only holds cartridges, normally
> outside the gun, until they are loaded in a magazine.  A magazine may be
> integral to a gun (like the M-1) or removable (like the M-14 or M-16) and
> preloaded before being inserted into the gun.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From:  Don via Mercedes
> > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:43 PM
> >
> > What you really mean is clips that hold large amounts of ammunition...
>
>
>
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> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

I read today that the alleged accomplice is Salman Noor, his former wife.
She is alleged to have helped him scout Disney World as a target, and knew
in advance of the actual attack. The report states that she will be arrested
within the next 24-48 hrs.

This is "breaking" and unconfirmed.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Strasfogel via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 8:43 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

I heard on the news this morning (not NPR) that authorities were looking to
arrest a second individual.  Anyone know about this?

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> --RR wrote:
> > Now it is being reported that the whackjob was gay, had been drunk at
the
> > bar several times over the last 3 years.  I had wondered this when I
> heard
> > it, a very conflicted gay muslim taking out his issues in this way.
> Father
> > (Taliban supporter) called him gay, his former wife, whom he beat, said
> he
> > was gay but that the American authorities told her not to say that.
> >
> > And NPR reporting he used "an automatic-style rifle" and making it all
> out
> > to be about the "automatic-style rifle."
>
> This all adds up to "false flag" it seems.
> mao
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

That sucks, Maine has had instant check for years. The worst part is at like a 
gun show, theres usually no internet or good cell service (although it is 
improving) and you'll have to go outside with the dealer to complete that step 
of the transaction.
Theres no reason we can't have nationwide instant check. It should work similar 
to credit reporting where you can check up on yourself and make sure the record 
is accurate.
-Curt

  From: Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: 'Mitch Haley' <mi...@mitchellhaley.com>; 'Mercedes Discussion List' 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Greg Fiorentino <greg.fiorent...@comcast.net>
 Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 12:52 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
The state of WA has implemented a universal check law. If I want to sell or 
gift to a hunting buddy I've known for 50 years I need to go to an FFL holder 
and fork over $25. The check can take up to a few days. If it were actually 
free and instant it would be less onerous.

 

Greg

 

From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley 
via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 6:19 PM
To: Curt Raymond; Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Mitch Haley
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

 

 

On June 13, 2016 at 1:55 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
wrote:


So are you complete de-regulation?
I'm not a big fan of regulation but I think there are some people who clearly 
shouldn't have guns. The shooter in Orlando for instance. If the laws currently 
on the books for background checks had been doing their job he wouldn't have 
been able to legally buy guns in the first place considering he was a known 
wife-beating anti-social, pretty much all around not-good-guy.
I don't think that instant check infringes on my rights to own a gun in any 
way. More over supporting it would be a win for the NRA since polls seem to 
show most people agree with me. Instead the NRA just looks completely 
obstructionist and their "good guy with a gun" mantra just gives the anti-gun 
crowd more fodder.

 

As you mention in the case at hand, prior restraint does not prevent violent 
crime, so why should the NRA or anybody else embrace it as a 'commie sense gun 
restriction'? 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sapz4qVyHGI

 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

The state of WA has implemented a universal check law. If I want to sell or 
gift to a hunting buddy I've known for 50 years I need to go to an FFL holder 
and fork over $25. The check can take up to a few days. If it were actually 
free and instant it would be less onerous.

 

Greg

 

From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley 
via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 6:19 PM
To: Curt Raymond; Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Mitch Haley
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

 

 

On June 13, 2016 at 1:55 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
wrote:


So are you complete de-regulation?
I'm not a big fan of regulation but I think there are some people who clearly 
shouldn't have guns. The shooter in Orlando for instance. If the laws currently 
on the books for background checks had been doing their job he wouldn't have 
been able to legally buy guns in the first place considering he was a known 
wife-beating anti-social, pretty much all around not-good-guy.
I don't think that instant check infringes on my rights to own a gun in any 
way. More over supporting it would be a win for the NRA since polls seem to 
show most people agree with me. Instead the NRA just looks completely 
obstructionist and their "good guy with a gun" mantra just gives the anti-gun 
crowd more fodder.

 

As you mention in the case at hand, prior restraint does not prevent violent 
crime, so why should the NRA or anybody else embrace it as a 'commie sense gun 
restriction'? 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sapz4qVyHGI

 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

When HollyWierd did that Clancy novel, didn't they morph the evil mooslims
into NeoNazis?

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of clay via
Mercedes
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:53 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: clay
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

I am wondering just how long it will take Howllywood to come out with a
Movie of the Week based on this event.  Are the dead Gay folk the heroes, or
does that fall on the cops?  Will the bad guy have horns and be full
Mslim, or do they go with slightly creepy nerd?




clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








On Jun 13, 2016, at 3:48 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

> Rule in the military.. Once the first shot is fired, all battle plans go
to
> hell
> 
> Police train routinely to take down known shooter situations. Government
> funds, both state and federal are allocated to that training, since 911,
> and Homeland Security.. 4 hours to bleed to death is a very long time.. if
> you are the one bleeding..
> 
> It is why police SWAT units are equipped with level 1 armor with armor
> plate inserts to take rounds and survive.. as well as other items of
> superior fire power... sooo..
> 
> Sorry.. standing outside while people bleed out and more people are killed
> is "poor police action" ... I choose to take issue with that course of
> decisions.
> 
> As well as taking issue that the shooter was on the FBI short list several
> times before.. Where was Homeland Security, FBI, TSA, and all the other "3
> letters" ??
> 
> I want more for my tax dollars than lip service.. and more lip..
> 
>
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campai
gn=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b>
> Virus-free
>
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campai
gn=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b>
> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>> 
>>>  That is the real issue - are you willing to
>>> risk your self and your family to keep your rights?
>>> 
>>> 
>> And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.
>> 
>> If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you
>> have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?
>> 
>> The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside
>> there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is
>> one shooter or several.
>> 
>> The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They
>> don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.
>> 
>> If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead
>> hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of
attack
>> that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or injured
when
>> the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s). Might be bad news
>> for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste trained officers
in
>> some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is actually happening.
>> 
>> RB
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

Andrew:

It took me a while to figure this out. I think he means that you can't
depend on the police to protect you. WOw, that hurt my brain to puzzle out!

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Strasfogel via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 8:46 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

And your point is...  ??

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
> (In this case, apparently about 240 of them.)
>
> -- Jim
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

--Jim wrote:
> When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
> (In this case, apparently about 240 of them.)

Minutes?  The account I heard is they were there from 2am to 5am
before they came in hot.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

And your point is...  ??

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
> (In this case, apparently about 240 of them.)
>
> -- Jim
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
(In this case, apparently about 240 of them.)

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I heard on the news this morning (not NPR) that authorities were looking to
arrest a second individual.  Anyone know about this?

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> --RR wrote:
> > Now it is being reported that the whackjob was gay, had been drunk at the
> > bar several times over the last 3 years.  I had wondered this when I
> heard
> > it, a very conflicted gay muslim taking out his issues in this way.
> Father
> > (Taliban supporter) called him gay, his former wife, whom he beat, said
> he
> > was gay but that the American authorities told her not to say that.
> >
> > And NPR reporting he used "an automatic-style rifle" and making it all
> out
> > to be about the "automatic-style rifle."
>
> This all adds up to "false flag" it seems.
> mao
>
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

--RR wrote:
> Now it is being reported that the whackjob was gay, had been drunk at the
> bar several times over the last 3 years.  I had wondered this when I heard
> it, a very conflicted gay muslim taking out his issues in this way.  Father
> (Taliban supporter) called him gay, his former wife, whom he beat, said he
> was gay but that the American authorities told her not to say that.
>
> And NPR reporting he used "an automatic-style rifle" and making it all out
> to be about the "automatic-style rifle."

This all adds up to "false flag" it seems.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

Now it is being reported that the whackjob was gay, had been drunk at 
the bar several times over the last 3 years.  I had wondered this when I 
heard it, a very conflicted gay muslim taking out his issues in this 
way.  Father (Taliban supporter) called him gay, his former wife, whom 
he beat, said he was gay but that the American authorities told her not 
to say that.


And NPR reporting he used "an automatic-style rifle" and making it all 
out to be about the "automatic-style rifle."


--JC


On 6/14/16 8:36 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:

On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

   That is the real issue - are you willing to
risk your self and your family to keep your rights?
  

And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.
If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you
have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?
The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside there 
is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is one shooter 
or several.
The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They don't 
want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.
If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead  hero. 
You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of attack that 
makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or
injured when the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s).
Might be bad news for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste 
trained officers in some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is actually 
happening.
RB

~~~
The nightclub gaurd, an off-duty police officer, did engage the killer in gun 
fire before the police arrived.
The police engaged the killer in gunfire after they arrived and one officer got 
shot in the head, but his Kevlar helmet save him.
Then the killer holed up in a bathroom with five hostages and began talking to 
police on his cellphone.
After long conversations, he made comments that sounded like he was going to 
kill the hostages, so the police used some sort of vehicle and punched holes 
through the outside walls into the restrooms.
At some point they ignited a noise bomb to cause confusion and the hostages 
escaped through the punched hole. Up to 30 escaped from another bathroom 
through another hole that had been punched in the wall.
Then the killer came out through the hole and exchanged gunfire with the police 
and was killed.
This was the NYT version of the events from last night. It may be changed after 
hostages have been interviewed and/or some sell their story to the media. If 
this version is true, then the police did ignore their own safety and go after 
the killer, and probably prevented more hostage deaths.
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

> On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
> >   That is the real issue - are you willing to
> > risk your self and your family to keep your rights?
 
> And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.
> If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you 
> have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?
> The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside 
> there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is one 
> shooter or several.
> The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They 
> don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.
> If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead  
> hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of attack 
> that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or 
> injured when the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s). 
> Might be bad news for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste 
> trained officers in some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is actually 
> happening. 
> RB
~~~
The nightclub gaurd, an off-duty police officer, did engage the killer in gun 
fire before the police arrived.
The police engaged the killer in gunfire after they arrived and one officer got 
shot in the head, but his Kevlar helmet save him.
Then the killer holed up in a bathroom with five hostages and began talking to 
police on his cellphone. 
After long conversations, he made comments that sounded like he was going to 
kill the hostages, so the police used some sort of vehicle and punched holes 
through the outside walls into the restrooms.
At some point they ignited a noise bomb to cause confusion and the hostages 
escaped through the punched hole. Up to 30 escaped from another bathroom 
through another hole that had been punched in the wall.
Then the killer came out through the hole and exchanged gunfire with the police 
and was killed.
This was the NYT version of the events from last night. It may be changed after 
hostages have been interviewed and/or some sell their story to the media. If 
this version is true, then the police did ignore their own safety and go after 
the killer, and probably prevented more hostage deaths.
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Clips are what little girls and women use to hold their hair out of their
eyes so they can see to shoot..

Magazines are what guns use to hold bullets..

;)))

The Navy invented sex... the Marines introduced it to women... Uh Rahhh


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On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:58 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The correct term is magazine.  A clip only holds cartridges, normally
> outside the gun, until they are loaded in a magazine.  A magazine may be
> integral to a gun (like the M-1) or removable (like the M-14 or M-16) and
> preloaded before being inserted into the gun.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From:  Don via Mercedes
> > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:43 PM
> >
> > What you really mean is clips that hold large amounts of ammunition...
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

The correct term is magazine.  A clip only holds cartridges, normally outside 
the gun, until they are loaded in a magazine.  A magazine may be integral to a 
gun (like the M-1) or removable (like the M-14 or M-16) and preloaded before 
being inserted into the gun.

> -Original Message-
> From:  Don via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:43 PM
> 
> What you really mean is clips that hold large amounts of ammunition... 



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

For those that don't know, the media invented the term assault weapon; that
term has no actual meaning.  On the other hand, an assault rifle is an
automatic rifle (machine gun) that fires a reduced power cartridge.  For all
practical purposes, machine guns are illegal in the US and have been for a
long time.  A reduced power cartridge has less power than a main battle
rifle (like M-1 Garand) or hunting rifle but more power than a .22 long
rifle cartridge.




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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

>From what I can see, there are very few Americans, currently,  who feel a duty 
>to defend their country.  There are, however, certain people that run toward 
>the sound of gunfire; they are called Marines.

> -Original Message-
> From: Of G Mann via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 5:33 PM
> 
> The guiding principle behind that system is that Switzerland is a small
> country, and every Citizen has a duty to defend it.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

As a matter of fact, the NRA supported the current background check system, 
much to the dismay of many members.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Curt Raymond via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:41 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> 
> Like George Carlin I do this thing called "Thinking for myself" which is a
> radical idea for most of the world.
> This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the "political
> equation" pretty much equally.
> So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a 
> disservice in
> these situations by digging in its heels and refusing any gun control 
> measures.
> Their refusal to sit at the table at all is dumb. They should be working 
> across
> the aisle on background checks, it'd be something easy that would show them
> as good people working WITH the antis. Then when the control crowd
> proposes something wacky they'd be able to say "Hey, we've been working
> with you!" as it is the other side gets to say "You just fight us, clearly you
> want people to die."
> *sigh*
> In the end the control crowd is wrong, banning high capacity mags wouldn't
> have made a difference in this case, the guy had plenty of time to reload
> repeatedly anyway.
> Anyway, remember you're not anti-gun you're pro-stormtrooper, those are
> they people who will be charged with taking guns away from the legal gun
> owners...
> -Curt
> 
>   From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
>  Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:25 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> 
> Wow, so many of you have been radicalized by the NRA.  I'm impressed.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > How'd that work in Europe?  How's that work in the south side of Chicago?
> >
> > --JC
> >
> >
> > On 6/13/16 1:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to
> >> kill lots of people quickly"
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.
> >>> Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
> >>> -Curt
> >>>
> >>>From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >>>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >>> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>; Meade Dillon <
> >>>dillonm...@gmail.com>
> >>>  Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:05 PM
> >>>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> >>>
> >>> Or maybe banning the sale of assault weapons?
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Well, maybe this is kind of like the simple rules for flying (stay
> >>> in the
> >>>> middle of the air, avoid the boundaries).  Maybe staying the heck
> >>>> away
> >>>>
> >>> from
> >>>
> >>>> large gatherings in gun-free zones is the key...
> >>>>
> >>>> -
> >>>> Max
> >>>> Charleston SC
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:21 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> >>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The obvious solution would have been a metal detector at the
> >>>> entrance
> >>>>>
> >>>> to
> >>>
> >>>> the club.  Or is that forbidden under FL law?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ___
> >>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>>
> >>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>>
> >>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>&

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Disarming the victims is not the answer.  Anyone who believes laws can disarm 
the criminals and terrorists (especially laws that are not enforced) must be a 
product of our alleged education system.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Quite a powerful video, founded on the logic that the Swiss Citizen has a
duty to both self defense, and defense of his / her country..

Unfortunately, a logic that is somehow missing in a portion of our PC
liberal Citizenship. It is our individual "Fair Share" required to maintain
an orderly society.. and keep it safe from enemies, both foreign and
domestic.

Current estimates are that of a population of 325,000,000 American
Citizens, those Citizens privately own 480,000,000 guns, and an estimated
86 Billion rounds of ammunition.

Based on those estimates, it suggests that it's not a good idea to piss off
American Citizens.. That would represent the largest army in the world,
which could be quickly raised to action.

The Revolutionary War which founded America was fought with privately owned
weapons.. it's an enduring principle preserved by the Second Amendment
Right. As a Citizen.. you get to personally choose to arm yourself.. or
not.. however, you do not get to choose for someone else.

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On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Here's a video on "Swiss gun culture":
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B31SUm0nrwc
>
> I guess it depends on whether you view your population is mainly citizens
> or
> serfs.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G
> > Mann via Mercedes
> > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 6:49 PM
> > To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > Cc: G Mann <g2ma...@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> >
> > I'm trained and current.. aren't you?
> >
> >
> > <https://www.avast.com/sig-
> > email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-
> > email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b>
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> > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 13/06/2016 4:32 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
> > >
> > >> Interesting thing about the Swiss and firearms.. There is a weapon in
> > >> each household of military grade capable of full automatic fire, and
> > >> it is also equipped with a proscribed issue of ammunition. What is
> > >> not brought out however, is that every Citizen has to re-qualify, at
> > >> a government run range, on a proscribed schedule his proficiency with
> > >> that weapon, and account for every round of ammunition in his
> > >> possession for it. He also received training prior to issue of the
> weapon.
> > >>
> > >> The guiding principle behind that system is that Switzerland is a
> > >> small country, and every Citizen has a duty to defend it.
> > >>
> > >> Ohh... much like the Second Amendment in the USA.. in principle,
> > >> isn't it..
> > >> Citizen Soldier...
> > >>
> > >>
> > > And therein lies one of the issues. The constitutional right to bear
> > > arms related to a strong militia.
> > > It really does not fit the current reality of all sorts of regular
> > > folks with no training, military or otherwise, having all sorts of
> > > guns and ammo to do whatever they wish with.
> > > If the US was like Switzerland in terms of the training and control,
> > > you likely would not have the issues that you do.
> > >
> > >
> > > RB
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> > >
> > >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Here's a video on "Swiss gun culture": 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B31SUm0nrwc

I guess it depends on whether you view your population is mainly citizens or
serfs.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G
> Mann via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 6:49 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: G Mann <g2ma...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> 
> I'm trained and current.. aren't you?
> 
> 
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-
> email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-
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> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 13/06/2016 4:32 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> Interesting thing about the Swiss and firearms.. There is a weapon in
> >> each household of military grade capable of full automatic fire, and
> >> it is also equipped with a proscribed issue of ammunition. What is
> >> not brought out however, is that every Citizen has to re-qualify, at
> >> a government run range, on a proscribed schedule his proficiency with
> >> that weapon, and account for every round of ammunition in his
> >> possession for it. He also received training prior to issue of the
weapon.
> >>
> >> The guiding principle behind that system is that Switzerland is a
> >> small country, and every Citizen has a duty to defend it.
> >>
> >> Ohh... much like the Second Amendment in the USA.. in principle,
> >> isn't it..
> >> Citizen Soldier...
> >>
> >>
> > And therein lies one of the issues. The constitutional right to bear
> > arms related to a strong militia.
> > It really does not fit the current reality of all sorts of regular
> > folks with no training, military or otherwise, having all sorts of
> > guns and ammo to do whatever they wish with.
> > If the US was like Switzerland in terms of the training and control,
> > you likely would not have the issues that you do.
> >
> >
> > RB
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

I just had a couple of Citra Ass Down beers this evening.  They were 
very good.


To answer the question, it is the postal service, so anything useful is 
illegal in theory, but in practice who will know.


--JC


On 6/13/16 9:23 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:



On June 13, 2016 at 2:26 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 wrote:



Without me, what would you all talk about? Someone owes me a b**r.


Is it legal (and physically feasible) to mail a bottle?

Liberty Brewing's American IPA perhaps?

Or maybe some Steamy Windows?


Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On June 13, 2016 at 6:54 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes  wrote:But, if you were one of the first officers on the scene, would you have been willing to charge inside to see what was happening?Sounds suicidal.But...but...THEY PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE FOR US EVERY DAY!(or so the brainwashed copsuckers like to tell me as if it's a fact}Mitch.
 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

I like the comment that NRA is killing itself.
GOP is killing itself, likewise.  So is right-to-life.
The arguments made for years have are not effective.  Situation
remains the same.
Try a different argument?
Nothing really happens.  We are what we are until the day that we die.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On June 13, 2016 at 3:50 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes  wrote:I normally try to keep out of these threads as I am not in the USA and it does not apply to me but . . .Now that is a frightening scenario.If that were applied, then everyone would be entitled to firearms, no matter how crazy or violent etc. No regulation whatsoever because it is a constitutional right?Yet you are not frightened by the prospect of the same people running around with vodka bottles, matches and gasoline?How about motor vehicles and baseball bats?Basically, if you're not safe with a gun, you're not safe running loose in society. Mitch
 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On June 13, 2016 at 2:26 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  wrote:Without me, what would you all talk about? Someone owes me a b**r.Is it legal (and physically feasible) to mail a bottle?Liberty Brewing's American IPA perhaps?Or maybe some Steamy Windows?Mitch.
 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On June 13, 2016 at 1:55 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes  wrote:So are you complete de-regulation?I'm not a big fan of regulation but I think there are some people who clearly shouldn't have guns. The shooter in Orlando for instance. If the laws currently on the books for background checks had been doing their job he wouldn't have been able to legally buy guns in the first place considering he was a known wife-beating anti-social, pretty much all around not-good-guy.I don't think that instant check infringes on my rights to own a gun in any way. More over supporting it would be a win for the NRA since polls seem to show most people agree with me. Instead the NRA just looks completely obstructionist and their "good guy with a gun" mantra just gives the anti-gun crowd more fodder.As you mention in the case at hand, prior restraint does not prevent violent crime, so why should the NRA or anybody else embrace it as a 'commie sense gun restriction'? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sapz4qVyHGI 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Yes, we were not there. The police will only tell us so much and the 
press is unreliable so we will never truly know how it all occurred.


RB

On 13/06/2016 6:01 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Only in the movies does the "hero" charge in alone..

Good cop procedure is squad procedure, where overwhelming force is applied
to control the situation.. If you were to observe SWAT training, you would
see this repeated at each session..

There were cell phone calls made by people inside.. thus, assessment of
threat level could have been made with some accuracy.. perhaps it was..

I raise issue with how that was executed by police. Perhaps, based on intel
at the scene.. they did make best decisions possible.. it appears not
But Monday morning quarter backs always make the point, right..

The price of education is never cheap, no matter where you get it.. lessons
were learned.. expensive ones..





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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Only in the movies does the "hero" charge in alone..

Good cop procedure is squad procedure, where overwhelming force is applied
to control the situation.. If you were to observe SWAT training, you would
see this repeated at each session..

There were cell phone calls made by people inside.. thus, assessment of
threat level could have been made with some accuracy.. perhaps it was..

I raise issue with how that was executed by police. Perhaps, based on intel
at the scene.. they did make best decisions possible.. it appears not
But Monday morning quarter backs always make the point, right..

The price of education is never cheap, no matter where you get it.. lessons
were learned.. expensive ones..


Virus-free

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> But, if you were one of the first officers on the scene, would you have
> been willing to charge inside to see what was happening?
> Sounds suicidal.
>
> RB
>
> On 13/06/2016 5:48 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Rule in the military.. Once the first shot is fired, all battle plans go
>> to
>> hell
>>
>> Police train routinely to take down known shooter situations. Government
>> funds, both state and federal are allocated to that training, since 911,
>> and Homeland Security.. 4 hours to bleed to death is a very long time.. if
>> you are the one bleeding..
>>
>> It is why police SWAT units are equipped with level 1 armor with armor
>> plate inserts to take rounds and survive.. as well as other items of
>> superior fire power... sooo..
>>
>> Sorry.. standing outside while people bleed out and more people are killed
>> is "poor police action" ... I choose to take issue with that course of
>> decisions.
>>
>> As well as taking issue that the shooter was on the FBI short list several
>> times before.. Where was Homeland Security, FBI, TSA, and all the other "3
>> letters" ??
>>
>> I want more for my tax dollars than lip service.. and more lip..
>>
>> <
>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b
>> >
>> Virus-free
>> <
>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b
>> >
>> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>>>
>>>That is the real issue - are you willing to
 risk your self and your family to keep your rights?


 And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.
>>>
>>> If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you
>>> have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?
>>>
>>> The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside
>>> there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is
>>> one shooter or several.
>>>
>>> The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They
>>> don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.
>>>
>>> If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead
>>> hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of
>>> attack
>>> that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or injured
>>> when
>>> the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s). Might be bad news
>>> for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste trained officers
>>> in
>>> some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is actually happening.
>>>
>>> RB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
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>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

But, if you were one of the first officers on the scene, would you have 
been willing to charge inside to see what was happening?

Sounds suicidal.

RB

On 13/06/2016 5:48 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Rule in the military.. Once the first shot is fired, all battle plans go to
hell

Police train routinely to take down known shooter situations. Government
funds, both state and federal are allocated to that training, since 911,
and Homeland Security.. 4 hours to bleed to death is a very long time.. if
you are the one bleeding..

It is why police SWAT units are equipped with level 1 armor with armor
plate inserts to take rounds and survive.. as well as other items of
superior fire power... sooo..

Sorry.. standing outside while people bleed out and more people are killed
is "poor police action" ... I choose to take issue with that course of
decisions.

As well as taking issue that the shooter was on the FBI short list several
times before.. Where was Homeland Security, FBI, TSA, and all the other "3
letters" ??

I want more for my tax dollars than lip service.. and more lip..


Virus-free

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:


   That is the real issue - are you willing to
risk your self and your family to keep your rights?



And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.

If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you
have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?

The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside
there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is
one shooter or several.

The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They
don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.

If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead
hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of attack
that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or injured when
the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s). Might be bad news
for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste trained officers in
some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is actually happening.

RB



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[clay via Mercedes]

I am wondering just how long it will take Howllywood to come out with a Movie 
of the Week based on this event.  Are the dead Gay folk the heroes, or does 
that fall on the cops?  Will the bad guy have horns and be full Mslim, or 
do they go with slightly creepy nerd?




clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








On Jun 13, 2016, at 3:48 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

> Rule in the military.. Once the first shot is fired, all battle plans go to
> hell
> 
> Police train routinely to take down known shooter situations. Government
> funds, both state and federal are allocated to that training, since 911,
> and Homeland Security.. 4 hours to bleed to death is a very long time.. if
> you are the one bleeding..
> 
> It is why police SWAT units are equipped with level 1 armor with armor
> plate inserts to take rounds and survive.. as well as other items of
> superior fire power... sooo..
> 
> Sorry.. standing outside while people bleed out and more people are killed
> is "poor police action" ... I choose to take issue with that course of
> decisions.
> 
> As well as taking issue that the shooter was on the FBI short list several
> times before.. Where was Homeland Security, FBI, TSA, and all the other "3
> letters" ??
> 
> I want more for my tax dollars than lip service.. and more lip..
> 
> 
> Virus-free
> 
> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>> 
>>>  That is the real issue - are you willing to
>>> risk your self and your family to keep your rights?
>>> 
>>> 
>> And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.
>> 
>> If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you
>> have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?
>> 
>> The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside
>> there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is
>> one shooter or several.
>> 
>> The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They
>> don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.
>> 
>> If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead
>> hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of attack
>> that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or injured when
>> the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s). Might be bad news
>> for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste trained officers in
>> some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is actually happening.
>> 
>> RB
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[G Mann via Mercedes]

I'm trained and current.. aren't you?



Virus-free

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On 13/06/2016 4:32 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Interesting thing about the Swiss and firearms.. There is a weapon in each
>> household of military grade capable of full automatic fire, and it is also
>> equipped with a proscribed issue of ammunition. What is not brought out
>> however, is that every Citizen has to re-qualify, at a government run
>> range, on a proscribed schedule his proficiency with that weapon, and
>> account for every round of ammunition in his possession for it. He also
>> received training prior to issue of the weapon.
>>
>> The guiding principle behind that system is that Switzerland is a small
>> country, and every Citizen has a duty to defend it.
>>
>> Ohh... much like the Second Amendment in the USA.. in principle, isn't
>> it..
>> Citizen Soldier...
>>
>>
> And therein lies one of the issues. The constitutional right to bear arms
> related to a strong militia.
> It really does not fit the current reality of all sorts of regular folks
> with no training, military or otherwise, having all sorts of guns and ammo
> to do whatever they wish with.
> If the US was like Switzerland in terms of the training and control, you
> likely would not have the issues that you do.
>
>
> RB
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Rule in the military.. Once the first shot is fired, all battle plans go to
hell

Police train routinely to take down known shooter situations. Government
funds, both state and federal are allocated to that training, since 911,
and Homeland Security.. 4 hours to bleed to death is a very long time.. if
you are the one bleeding..

It is why police SWAT units are equipped with level 1 armor with armor
plate inserts to take rounds and survive.. as well as other items of
superior fire power... sooo..

Sorry.. standing outside while people bleed out and more people are killed
is "poor police action" ... I choose to take issue with that course of
decisions.

As well as taking issue that the shooter was on the FBI short list several
times before.. Where was Homeland Security, FBI, TSA, and all the other "3
letters" ??

I want more for my tax dollars than lip service.. and more lip..


Virus-free

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>
>>   That is the real issue - are you willing to
>> risk your self and your family to keep your rights?
>>
>>
> And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.
>
> If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you
> have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?
>
> The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside
> there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is
> one shooter or several.
>
> The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They
> don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.
>
> If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead
> hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of attack
> that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or injured when
> the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s). Might be bad news
> for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste trained officers in
> some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is actually happening.
>
> RB
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 13/06/2016 4:32 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Interesting thing about the Swiss and firearms.. There is a weapon in each
household of military grade capable of full automatic fire, and it is also
equipped with a proscribed issue of ammunition. What is not brought out
however, is that every Citizen has to re-qualify, at a government run
range, on a proscribed schedule his proficiency with that weapon, and
account for every round of ammunition in his possession for it. He also
received training prior to issue of the weapon.

The guiding principle behind that system is that Switzerland is a small
country, and every Citizen has a duty to defend it.

Ohh... much like the Second Amendment in the USA.. in principle, isn't it..
Citizen Soldier...



And therein lies one of the issues. The constitutional right to bear 
arms  related to a strong militia.
It really does not fit the current reality of all sorts of regular folks 
with no training, military or otherwise, having all sorts of guns and 
ammo to do whatever they wish with.
If the US was like Switzerland in terms of the training and control, you 
likely would not have the issues that you do.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

  That is the real issue - are you willing to
risk your self and your family to keep your rights?



And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.

If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you 
have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?


The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside 
there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is 
one shooter or several.


The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They 
don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.


If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead 
hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of 
attack that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or 
injured when the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s). 
Might be bad news for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste 
trained officers in some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is 
actually happening.


RB



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I love the logo on my ron paulista T shirt:  "Our Liberties we Prize, 
and our Rights, We WILL Defend!"



OK Don via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 13, 2016 at 3:55 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

Don't make the mistake of equating conservative with anti gun laws. I know
very conservative right wing nuts who are scared of their shadows and want
all guns banned (too afraid to hold one), and very liberal left wing nuts
who will fight to the death to keep their guns. I also know a few (very
few) who are in the middle. Left/Right leaning does not seems to inter the
equation.

I thin it was Benjamin Franklin who said "Those that would give up liberty
for security deserve neither". That is the real issue - are you willing to
risk your self and your family to keep your rights?

Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 13, 2016 at 3:39 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

Perhaps the NRA could negotiate for a license reciprocity system across the
US. Just as security clearances are only checked once every 5 years, a
person would go through a background check (for free, of course, since we
shouldn't have to pay to exercise a constitutional right) and thereby be
licensed for 5 years and could carry anywhere in the US. This could be
rescinded via a due process if necessary (domestic violence or other serious
conviction, etc) and dealers must receive and check a current list of
rescissions. Automated renewal and re-check of record each 5 years.

Maybe require a simple qualification course periodically (5 years?).

The problem with negotiating has been that it is really just a 1-way street,
simply chipping away rights without any benefit to the firearms owners.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Penoff via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 12:06 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Dan Penoff
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

This has confused and befuddled me for some time.

For the life of me I don't understand why the NRA doesn't come to the table.
They might get something good out of it rather than giving their opposition
even more reason to paint them in a negative light.

Dan

Sent from my iPad


On Jun 13, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes

<mercedes@okiebenz.com>  wrote:

Like George Carlin I do this thing called "Thinking for myself" which is a

radical idea for most of the world.

This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the

"political equation" pretty much equally.

So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a

disservice in these situations by digging in its heels and refusing any gun
control measures. Their refusal to sit at the table at all is dumb. They
should be working across the aisle on background checks, it'd be something
easy that would show them as good people working WITH the antis. Then when
the control crowd proposes something wacky they'd be able to say "Hey, we've
been working with you!" as it is the other side gets to say "You just fight
us, clearly you want people to die."

*sigh*
In the end the control crowd is wrong, banning high capacity mags wouldn't

have made a difference in this case, the guy had plenty of time to reload
repeatedly anyway.

Anyway, remember you're not anti-gun you're pro-stormtrooper, those are

they people who will be charged with taking guns away from the legal gun
owners...

-Curt

  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel<astrasfo...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Wow, so many of you have been radicalized by the NRA.  I'm impressed.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes<
mercedes@okiebenz.com>  wrote:


How'd that work in Europe?  How's that work in the south side of Chicago?

--JC



On 6/13/16 1:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill
lots
of people quickly"

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes<
mercedes@okiebenz.com>  wrote:

They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.

Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
-Curt

 From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
   To: Mercedes Discussion List<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel<astrasfo...@gmail.com>; Meade Dillon<
dillonm...@gmail.com>
   Sent: Monday, June 13, 2Like George Carlin I do this thing called

"Thinking for myself" which is a radical idea for most of the world.

This tends to make me a moderate. I d

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Too bad it is only ontario that committed suicide.  if Canada, china,  
meh-hee-ko, nee-hon and a few other countries would do that, we might 
have a chance of a financial recovery!





Randy Bennell via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 13, 2016 at 3:51 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>



I am with you Fred.
Cannot trust the government, or the police etc.
In Canada, once a government gets a majority in an election, they then 
think they can do whatever they want.
Just look at our latest federal government run by the Liberals and 
young Mr. Trudeau. Lord help us.
And, don't forget the RCMP using a flood as an excuse to kick the 
doors down in High River,  Alberta and take guns that were safely stored.
No excuse whatsoever for their actions but no one did a thing about 
it. Heads should have rolled all the way from the bottom to the top.
Those in charge should either be unemployed or working the far far 
north to protect the locals from polar bears.


The Liberal government in Ontario has just passed into law a carbon 
tax expected to take $1.9 billion per year from the pockets of its 
citizens. All in the name of being green but the only green is the 
cash the government will take and then distribute to its friends. Not 
even a suggestion that it might be revenue neutral like British 
Columbia where they at least try to raise some taxes and lower others 
so that it makes some form of sense. In Ontario it is all about the 
money. They have adopted a system like the one that failed in Europe. 
Should be good for those of you south of the border. Ontario is 
essentially out of business.


Cannot trust the courts either.
The independence of the judiciary means they can change the laws of 
the land in whatever silly way they decide makes sense to them.


One of my old law professors has decided that he cannot do anything 
about this sort of thing so he does not want to know about it. He 
won't read a newspaper of listen to the news on radio or tv.
I am getting close to that myself. I am frustrated by most of what I 
read or hear. The world as we knew it no longer exists. The 
politically correct have taken over.


I guess the smart thing to do, if one had the stomach for it, would be 
to figure out how to profit from it and do your best to take as much 
for yourself as you could. Goes against the grain of what most of us 
have been taught.


RB

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Fred Moir via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 13, 2016 at 3:18 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

Andrew.
I keep forgetting that americans don't do irony, sorry.
I'm in favor of responsible gun ownership. (Who decides?).
I'm in favor of keeping all rights free of (stupid) regulations. 
(Again, who decides?).
No one should be denied any of their rights, except by due process of 
the law. ( Do you trust your legal system?).

Cynical? who, not me!

Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.


From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Andrew 
Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

Sent: 13 June 2016 20:09
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel; Fred Moir
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Fred - I thought you were One of Us - what happened?
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Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 13, 2016 at 3:09 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

Fred - I thought you were One of Us - what happened?

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
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Fred Moir via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 13, 2016 at 3:06 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

Andrew.
+1
Hold my beer 'n watch this.

Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.


From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Andrew 
Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

Sent: 13 June 2016 18:26
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Without me, what would you all talk a

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Rights are to be removed from the felons who are not removed from the 
population.  True crazies were committed, and thus had (in theory) no 
access to wea pons.  The remainder are to be responsible for their actions.


The -ists want everyone to be dependent sheeple so they can be 
controlled.  Now they are trying to restore voting rights to felons, as 
a way to get more jackass voters.It is a philosophy at odds with 
American culture.  Aside from attacks on every facet of Merkun kulture 
they are training the sheeple to be dependent and therefore, not 
responsible for their actions.  In that kull-ture the sheeple must be 
disarmed.



Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 2:50 PMvia Postbox 




I normally try to keep out of these threads as I am not in the USA and 
it does not apply to me but . . .

Now that is a frightening scenario.
If that were applied, then everyone would be entitled to firearms, no 
matter how crazy or violent etc. No regulation whatsoever because it 
is a constitutional right?
How do you balance that against the right to life, liberty etc? What 
about the rights of those who got killed over the weekend?


RB


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Wayne Lapierre needs to have term limits applied to him, he sounds nuttier 
every day... Charlton Heston was a great president for the NRA, he was a strong 
leader people trusted. Lapierre sounds like somebody's nutty grandpa.
Sadly he might be a really smart guy with good ideas, its just how he comes 
off. Remember I'd tend to agree with him and I think that...
-Curt

  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Dan Penoff <d...@penoff.com>
 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 5:10 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
I like the Swiss.  They have government issued firearms in every household, but 
a very low rate of firearm related deaths.

Interesting.

And yes, Greg, I think you’ve got some good ideas.  I am all for 2nd Amendment 
rights, but the system is flawed in so many ways.  I certainly understand the 
concerns of the NRA and how things just keep chipping away at rights.  However, 
I also think there are some positive things that could be done with their 
involvement that would not compromise our rights and also prove that gun owners 
aren’t a bunch of right wing radicals, too.

Because most are not, I believe.

Dan


> On Jun 13, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> Perhaps the NRA could negotiate for a license reciprocity system across the
> US. Just as security clearances are only checked once every 5 years, a
> person would go through a background check (for free, of course, since we
> shouldn't have to pay to exercise a constitutional right) and thereby be
> licensed for 5 years and could carry anywhere in the US. This could be
> rescinded via a due process if necessary (domestic violence or other serious
> conviction, etc) and dealers must receive and check a current list of
> rescissions. Automated renewal and re-check of record each 5 years.
> 
> Maybe require a simple qualification course periodically (5 years?).
> 
> The problem with negotiating has been that it is really just a 1-way street,
> simply chipping away rights without any benefit to the firearms owners.
> 
> Greg
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Interesting thing about the Swiss and firearms.. There is a weapon in each
household of military grade capable of full automatic fire, and it is also
equipped with a proscribed issue of ammunition. What is not brought out
however, is that every Citizen has to re-qualify, at a government run
range, on a proscribed schedule his proficiency with that weapon, and
account for every round of ammunition in his possession for it. He also
received training prior to issue of the weapon.

The guiding principle behind that system is that Switzerland is a small
country, and every Citizen has a duty to defend it.

Ohh... much like the Second Amendment in the USA.. in principle, isn't it..
Citizen Soldier...


Virus-free

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 2:10 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I like the Swiss.  They have government issued firearms in every
> household, but a very low rate of firearm related deaths.
>
> Interesting.
>
> And yes, Greg, I think you’ve got some good ideas.  I am all for 2nd
> Amendment rights, but the system is flawed in so many ways.  I certainly
> understand the concerns of the NRA and how things just keep chipping away
> at rights.  However, I also think there are some positive things that could
> be done with their involvement that would not compromise our rights and
> also prove that gun owners aren’t a bunch of right wing radicals, too.
>
> Because most are not, I believe.
>
> Dan
>
>
> > On Jun 13, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps the NRA could negotiate for a license reciprocity system across
> the
> > US. Just as security clearances are only checked once every 5 years, a
> > person would go through a background check (for free, of course, since we
> > shouldn't have to pay to exercise a constitutional right) and thereby be
> > licensed for 5 years and could carry anywhere in the US. This could be
> > rescinded via a due process if necessary (domestic violence or other
> serious
> > conviction, etc) and dealers must receive and check a current list of
> > rescissions. Automated renewal and re-check of record each 5 years.
> >
> > Maybe require a simple qualification course periodically (5 years?).
> >
> > The problem with negotiating has been that it is really just a 1-way
> street,
> > simply chipping away rights without any benefit to the firearms owners.
> >
> > Greg
> >
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I like the Swiss.  They have government issued firearms in every household, but 
a very low rate of firearm related deaths.

Interesting.

And yes, Greg, I think you’ve got some good ideas.  I am all for 2nd Amendment 
rights, but the system is flawed in so many ways.  I certainly understand the 
concerns of the NRA and how things just keep chipping away at rights.  However, 
I also think there are some positive things that could be done with their 
involvement that would not compromise our rights and also prove that gun owners 
aren’t a bunch of right wing radicals, too.

Because most are not, I believe.

Dan


> On Jun 13, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps the NRA could negotiate for a license reciprocity system across the
> US. Just as security clearances are only checked once every 5 years, a
> person would go through a background check (for free, of course, since we
> shouldn't have to pay to exercise a constitutional right) and thereby be
> licensed for 5 years and could carry anywhere in the US. This could be
> rescinded via a due process if necessary (domestic violence or other serious
> conviction, etc) and dealers must receive and check a current list of
> rescissions. Automated renewal and re-check of record each 5 years.
> 
> Maybe require a simple qualification course periodically (5 years?).
> 
> The problem with negotiating has been that it is really just a 1-way street,
> simply chipping away rights without any benefit to the firearms owners.
> 
> Greg
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Don't make the mistake of equating conservative with anti gun laws. I know
very conservative right wing nuts who are scared of their shadows and want
all guns banned (too afraid to hold one), and very liberal left wing nuts
who will fight to the death to keep their guns. I also know a few (very
few) who are in the middle. Left/Right leaning does not seems to inter the
equation.

I thin it was Benjamin Franklin who said "Those that would give up liberty
for security deserve neither". That is the real issue - are you willing to
risk your self and your family to keep your rights?

-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 13/06/2016 3:18 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:

Andrew.
I keep forgetting that americans don't do irony, sorry.
I'm in favor of responsible gun ownership. (Who decides?).
I'm in favor of keeping all rights free of (stupid) regulations. (Again, who 
decides?).
No one should be denied any of their rights, except by due process of the law. 
( Do you trust your legal system?).
Cynical? who, not me!

Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.




I am with you Fred.
Cannot trust the government, or the police etc.
In Canada, once a government gets a majority in an election, they then 
think they can do whatever they want.
Just look at our latest federal government run by the Liberals and young 
Mr. Trudeau. Lord help us.
And, don't forget the RCMP using a flood as an excuse to kick the doors 
down in High River,  Alberta and take guns that were safely stored.
No excuse whatsoever for their actions but no one did a thing about it. 
Heads should have rolled all the way from the bottom to the top.
Those in charge should either be unemployed or working the far far north 
to protect the locals from polar bears.


The Liberal government in Ontario has just passed into law a carbon tax 
expected to take $1.9 billion per year from the pockets of its citizens. 
All in the name of being green but the only green is the cash the 
government will take and then distribute to its friends. Not even a 
suggestion that it might be revenue neutral like British Columbia where 
they at least try to raise some taxes and lower others so that it makes 
some form of sense. In Ontario it is all about the money. They have 
adopted a system like the one that failed in Europe. Should be good for 
those of you south of the border. Ontario is essentially out of business.


Cannot trust the courts either.
The independence of the judiciary means they can change the laws of the 
land in whatever silly way they decide makes sense to them.


One of my old law professors has decided that he cannot do anything 
about this sort of thing so he does not want to know about it. He won't 
read a newspaper of listen to the news on radio or tv.
I am getting close to that myself. I am frustrated by most of what I 
read or hear. The world as we knew it no longer exists. The politically 
correct have taken over.


I guess the smart thing to do, if one had the stomach for it, would be 
to figure out how to profit from it and do your best to take as much for 
yourself as you could. Goes against the grain of what most of us have 
been taught.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

Perhaps the NRA could negotiate for a license reciprocity system across the
US. Just as security clearances are only checked once every 5 years, a
person would go through a background check (for free, of course, since we
shouldn't have to pay to exercise a constitutional right) and thereby be
licensed for 5 years and could carry anywhere in the US. This could be
rescinded via a due process if necessary (domestic violence or other serious
conviction, etc) and dealers must receive and check a current list of
rescissions. Automated renewal and re-check of record each 5 years.

Maybe require a simple qualification course periodically (5 years?).

The problem with negotiating has been that it is really just a 1-way street,
simply chipping away rights without any benefit to the firearms owners.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Penoff via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 12:06 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Dan Penoff
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

This has confused and befuddled me for some time.

For the life of me I don't understand why the NRA doesn't come to the table.
They might get something good out of it rather than giving their opposition
even more reason to paint them in a negative light.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 13, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> Like George Carlin I do this thing called "Thinking for myself" which is a
radical idea for most of the world.
> This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the
"political equation" pretty much equally.
> So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a
disservice in these situations by digging in its heels and refusing any gun
control measures. Their refusal to sit at the table at all is dumb. They
should be working across the aisle on background checks, it'd be something
easy that would show them as good people working WITH the antis. Then when
the control crowd proposes something wacky they'd be able to say "Hey, we've
been working with you!" as it is the other side gets to say "You just fight
us, clearly you want people to die."
> *sigh*
> In the end the control crowd is wrong, banning high capacity mags wouldn't
have made a difference in this case, the guy had plenty of time to reload
repeatedly anyway.
> Anyway, remember you're not anti-gun you're pro-stormtrooper, those are
they people who will be charged with taking guns away from the legal gun
owners...
> -Curt
> 
>  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> 
> Wow, so many of you have been radicalized by the NRA.  I'm impressed.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> How'd that work in Europe?  How's that work in the south side of Chicago?
>> 
>> --JC
>> 
>> 
>>> On 6/13/16 1:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill
>>> lots
>>> of people quickly"
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.
>>>> Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
>>>> -Curt
>>>> 
>>>> From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>>>   To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>>> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>; Meade Dillon <
>>>> dillonm...@gmail.com>
>>>>   Sent: Monday, June 13, 2Like George Carlin I do this thing called
"Thinking for myself" which is a radical idea for most of the world.
> This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the
"political equation" pretty much equally.
> So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a
disservice in these situations by digging in its heels and refusing any gun
control measures. Their refusal to sit at the table at all is dumb. They
should be working across the aisle on background checks, it'd be something
easy that would show them as good people working WITH the antis. Then when
the control crowd proposes something wacky they'd be able to say "Hey, we've
been working with you!" as it is the other side gets to say "You just fight
us, clearly you want people to die."
> *sigh

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Andrew.
I keep forgetting that americans don't do irony, sorry.
I'm in favor of responsible gun ownership. (Who decides?).
I'm in favor of keeping all rights free of (stupid) regulations. (Again, who 
decides?).
No one should be denied any of their rights, except by due process of the law. 
( Do you trust your legal system?).
Cynical? who, not me!

Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.


From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Andrew Strasfogel 
via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: 13 June 2016 20:09
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel; Fred Moir
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Fred - I thought you were One of Us - what happened?
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Grant, you are my favorite RW Gun Nut.  And that is a high compliment.  :)

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:15 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
wrote:

> OK. personal belief aside..
>
> Anyone find it somehow hypocritical that the first thing an "anti-gun
> person" does when confronted with life threatening violence is call someone
> with a gun to come "save them" ?? [police]
>
> I do. In the obverse, I find it hypocritical that the courts have
> established the police have no duty to protect you, and their only reason
> for being armed is to protect themselves..
>
> We do indeed live in strange times. and.. I'm glad to know that Andrew has
> finally been "outed" for his John Birch Membership.. ;)))
> He really plays his part well of the permanent protagonist.. kudos.
>
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b
> >
> Virus-free
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b
> >
> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Andrew.
> > +1
> > Hold my beer 'n watch this.
> >
> > Fred Moir.
> > Lynn MA.
> > Diesel preferred.
> >
> > 
> > From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Andrew
> > Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > Sent: 13 June 2016 18:26
> > To: Mercedes Discussion List
> > Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> >
> > Without me, what would you all talk about?  Someone owes me a b**r.
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[G Mann via Mercedes]

OK. personal belief aside..

Anyone find it somehow hypocritical that the first thing an "anti-gun
person" does when confronted with life threatening violence is call someone
with a gun to come "save them" ?? [police]

I do. In the obverse, I find it hypocritical that the courts have
established the police have no duty to protect you, and their only reason
for being armed is to protect themselves..

We do indeed live in strange times. and.. I'm glad to know that Andrew has
finally been "outed" for his John Birch Membership.. ;)))
He really plays his part well of the permanent protagonist.. kudos.

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On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Andrew.
> +1
> Hold my beer 'n watch this.
>
> Fred Moir.
> Lynn MA.
> Diesel preferred.
>
> 
> From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Andrew
> Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Sent: 13 June 2016 18:26
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
>
> Without me, what would you all talk about?  Someone owes me a b**r.
>
> ___
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Fred - I thought you were One of Us - what happened?

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Andrew.
> +1
> Hold my beer 'n watch this.
>
> Fred Moir.
> Lynn MA.
> Diesel preferred.
>
> 
> From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Andrew
> Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Sent: 13 June 2016 18:26
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
>
> Without me, what would you all talk about?  Someone owes me a b**r.
>
> ___
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Andrew.
+1
Hold my beer 'n watch this.

Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.


From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Andrew Strasfogel 
via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: 13 June 2016 18:26
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Without me, what would you all talk about?  Someone owes me a b**r.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

Well, NPR are now calling the gun the whackjob used, "an automatic-style 
weapon."


No agenda there I would guess.

Let me rephrase my statement below to express my thought more 
effectively (I misspoke, what I really meant was...), "a Constitutional 
right should not be subject to wholesale suspension."


--JC


On 6/13/16 3:58 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

I feel a little weird about restricting the rights of people who "might" do 
something but I feel comfortable that a wife beater has given up his rights to own guns. 
I wouldn't feel terrible about him giving his driving privilege too for that matter...
-Curt

   From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Randy Bennell <rbenn...@bennell.ca>
  Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:50 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

On 13/06/2016 2:42 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes wrote:

Driving is a privilege, it is not a right as enumerated in the
Constitution.  So, driving can be subject to various regulations;
whereas, a Constitutional right should not be subject to regulation.

--R


I normally try to keep out of these threads as I am not in the USA and
it does not apply to me but . . .
Now that is a frightening scenario.
If that were applied, then everyone would be entitled to firearms, no
matter how crazy or violent etc. No regulation whatsoever because it is
a constitutional right?
How do you balance that against the right to life, liberty etc? What
about the rights of those who got killed over the weekend?

RB


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--
--BB

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I feel a little weird about restricting the rights of people who "might" do 
something but I feel comfortable that a wife beater has given up his rights to 
own guns. I wouldn't feel terrible about him giving his driving privilege too 
for that matter...
-Curt

  From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Randy Bennell <rbenn...@bennell.ca>
 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:50 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
On 13/06/2016 2:42 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes wrote:
> Driving is a privilege, it is not a right as enumerated in the 
> Constitution.  So, driving can be subject to various regulations; 
> whereas, a Constitutional right should not be subject to regulation.
>
> --R
>

I normally try to keep out of these threads as I am not in the USA and 
it does not apply to me but . . .
Now that is a frightening scenario.
If that were applied, then everyone would be entitled to firearms, no 
matter how crazy or violent etc. No regulation whatsoever because it is 
a constitutional right?
How do you balance that against the right to life, liberty etc? What 
about the rights of those who got killed over the weekend?

RB


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Well said.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On 13/06/2016 2:42 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Driving is a privilege, it is not a right as enumerated in the
>> Constitution.  So, driving can be subject to various regulations; whereas,
>> a Constitutional right should not be subject to regulation.
>>
>> --R
>>
>>
> I normally try to keep out of these threads as I am not in the USA and it
> does not apply to me but . . .
> Now that is a frightening scenario.
> If that were applied, then everyone would be entitled to firearms, no
> matter how crazy or violent etc. No regulation whatsoever because it is a
> constitutional right?
> How do you balance that against the right to life, liberty etc? What about
> the rights of those who got killed over the weekend?
>
> RB
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 13/06/2016 2:42 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes wrote:
Driving is a privilege, it is not a right as enumerated in the 
Constitution.  So, driving can be subject to various regulations; 
whereas, a Constitutional right should not be subject to regulation.


--R



I normally try to keep out of these threads as I am not in the USA and 
it does not apply to me but . . .

Now that is a frightening scenario.
If that were applied, then everyone would be entitled to firearms, no 
matter how crazy or violent etc. No regulation whatsoever because it is 
a constitutional right?
How do you balance that against the right to life, liberty etc? What 
about the rights of those who got killed over the weekend?


RB


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