Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Tell me about it. As I write this I'm headed to buy ten gallons of kerosene to keep the oil tank from running out till I get my next delivery. $1000 per month this winter in oil. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2015, at 8:09 AM, Jon Agne jonag...@gwi.net wrote: Every morning when I wake up, I look out the window to check Dimitri’s chimney. If his house were a steam locomotive, it’d be moving down the tracks at 90mph! On Mar 2, 2015, at 6:41 AM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Oh shut it! :) Sent from my iPhone On Mar 1, 2015, at 10:51 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Should I mention that we had to turn on the AC today? Guess not Dan On Mar 1, 2015, at 10:01 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 19:30:48 -0600 OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The 400 gallons of propane that I have will be burned in the grill . . . Too bad I use charcoal. My goal was to get the tank under 50 gallons without running out this winter. December/January were so cold that I panicked a bit and used the air-air heat pump too much. When January ended I bumped raised the switchover temp to 30° to get rid of some LP, burned more of it in February than in Nov-Dec-Jan combined. Probably ran the heat pump less than 50 hours all month. I should just set the switchover temp to 20 or 25 and manually turn on aux heat when I want a quick recovery from overnight setback. mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Every morning when I wake up, I look out the window to check Dimitri’s chimney. If his house were a steam locomotive, it’d be moving down the tracks at 90mph! On Mar 2, 2015, at 6:41 AM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Oh shut it! :) Sent from my iPhone On Mar 1, 2015, at 10:51 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Should I mention that we had to turn on the AC today? Guess not Dan On Mar 1, 2015, at 10:01 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 19:30:48 -0600 OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The 400 gallons of propane that I have will be burned in the grill . . . Too bad I use charcoal. My goal was to get the tank under 50 gallons without running out this winter. December/January were so cold that I panicked a bit and used the air-air heat pump too much. When January ended I bumped raised the switchover temp to 30° to get rid of some LP, burned more of it in February than in Nov-Dec-Jan combined. Probably ran the heat pump less than 50 hours all month. I should just set the switchover temp to 20 or 25 and manually turn on aux heat when I want a quick recovery from overnight setback. mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Oh shut it! :) Sent from my iPhone On Mar 1, 2015, at 10:51 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Should I mention that we had to turn on the AC today? Guess not Dan On Mar 1, 2015, at 10:01 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 19:30:48 -0600 OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The 400 gallons of propane that I have will be burned in the grill . . . Too bad I use charcoal. My goal was to get the tank under 50 gallons without running out this winter. December/January were so cold that I panicked a bit and used the air-air heat pump too much. When January ended I bumped raised the switchover temp to 30° to get rid of some LP, burned more of it in February than in Nov-Dec-Jan combined. Probably ran the heat pump less than 50 hours all month. I should just set the switchover temp to 20 or 25 and manually turn on aux heat when I want a quick recovery from overnight setback. mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
We had our first real ice storm yesterday. Started as snow then rained hard with temps. below freezing. Today was a wintry wonderland, but it's gotten warmer so I was ably to safely commute. Andrew (DC Area) On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Peter wrote: One more blast of cold air and low temps below 10F and I think winter is done. I hope you're right Peter. Two miserable winters in a row is enough for a few years... I'm ready for spring. That would make at least two of us. Rick Sent from my BlackBerry Z10 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
dseretakis--- via Mercedes wrote: Hmm. My house consumed 500 gallons of heating oil in one month with the thermostat set at 57 degrees. I just spent $600 to have ice dams removed from my roof but they were so thick that they are now only 1 foot thick at the eaves. I'm not liking this winter and I'm furthermore starting to believe that global warming is one big giant hoax. And BTW, the summers are not getting any hotter. If you buy 40 bales of cellulose insulation, will Lowes loan you a blower for a day for free? Get up in that attic and start pumping. I'm mostly done with a frigid winter and I've still got 30 gallons left of the 200 I bought last fall. And propane only gets me a bit over 90k btu per gallon. Mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
I am SO glad that I'm not heating with propane this last month! It was 16F yesterday morning, and the aux heat strip in the geothermal heat pump did NOT turn on! The 400 gallons of propane that I have will be burned in the grill . . . On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I'm mostly done with a frigid winter and I've still got 30 gallons left of the 200 I bought last fall. And propane only gets me a bit over 90k btu per gallon. Mitch -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Peter wrote: One more blast of cold air and low temps below 10F and I think winter is done. I hope you're right Peter. Two miserable winters in a row is enough for a few years... I'm ready for spring. That would make at least two of us. Rick Sent from my BlackBerry Z10 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Should I mention that we had to turn on the AC today? Guess not Dan On Mar 1, 2015, at 10:01 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 19:30:48 -0600 OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The 400 gallons of propane that I have will be burned in the grill . . . Too bad I use charcoal. My goal was to get the tank under 50 gallons without running out this winter. December/January were so cold that I panicked a bit and used the air-air heat pump too much. When January ended I bumped raised the switchover temp to 30° to get rid of some LP, burned more of it in February than in Nov-Dec-Jan combined. Probably ran the heat pump less than 50 hours all month. I should just set the switchover temp to 20 or 25 and manually turn on aux heat when I want a quick recovery from overnight setback. mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 19:30:48 -0600 OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The 400 gallons of propane that I have will be burned in the grill . . . Too bad I use charcoal. My goal was to get the tank under 50 gallons without running out this winter. December/January were so cold that I panicked a bit and used the air-air heat pump too much. When January ended I bumped raised the switchover temp to 30° to get rid of some LP, burned more of it in February than in Nov-Dec-Jan combined. Probably ran the heat pump less than 50 hours all month. I should just set the switchover temp to 20 or 25 and manually turn on aux heat when I want a quick recovery from overnight setback. mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
It was actually above freezing today! One more blast of cold air and low temps below 10F and I think winter is done. I'm ready for spring. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
I spent the weekend installing cold air blockers in outlets on outside walls and attaching weatherstrip to seal two leaky patio doors. Don't know why I waited this long... On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 8:30 PM, OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I am SO glad that I'm not heating with propane this last month! It was 16F yesterday morning, and the aux heat strip in the geothermal heat pump did NOT turn on! The 400 gallons of propane that I have will be burned in the grill . . . On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I'm mostly done with a frigid winter and I've still got 30 gallons left of the 200 I bought last fall. And propane only gets me a bit over 90k btu per gallon. Mitch -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 19:30:48 -0600 OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The 400 gallons of propane that I have will be burned in the grill . . . That's going to take awhile! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
India is very similar as China when it comes to pollution. but both refuse to engage in limiting activity - *But if this Global Warming gets any worse, I'm going to freeze to death!!* LarryT 91 300D On 2/24/2015 10:06 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: Having traveled to China in the past two year, I can say without hesitation it is one of the most polluted places ever on the face of the earth. We in America pay through the nose to have our cars inspected each year, and through the nose for ever tighter EPA regulations, while the cloud of pollution that hovers over China drifts into the weather patterns of the Pacific, which feed the weather patterns of the US Continent, due to earths direction of rotation. Add to China, all the other pollution from countries on the Pacific rim and everything we pay for and are charged here becomes worthless. Unless you have been there and walked the streets, it's really not possible to grasp the magnitude of pollution being produced there. All those companies that were fined and punished by the EPA over the past 25 years are now operating there, with no EPA to contend with.. or labor laws.. AND.. you can buy a public official in China.. Paradise surely.. On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 6:48 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Even if the global warmers are correct, and the solution is a massive worldwide decline in the use of fossil fuels; how is anyone going to stop China and 100+ nations from using fossil fuels and/or stopping practices that increase CO2? Is China going to stop using coal, a major source of pollution that runs nearly everything in their country? Improving the situation is impossible unless one is thinking of building enough solar and nuclear plants over the long time interval that would be required. When Americans talk to the leaders of other polluting countries about doing something now, their answer is: Give us the money to do it and we'll do it. It will be an impossible task irregardless of whether the global warmers are right or wrong. Gerry OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: R-12 has nothing to do with global warming. It destroys the ozone layer, letting more of the harmful UV rays reach the surface. The hole over Antarctica has closed significantly since the R-12 ban. I don't know that there is a cause/effect relationship here, but the coincidence does seems to lead us innocents to believe that there is. Mexico must not use much R-12. I do have 10 -12 lbs (in one bottle) of virgin R-12 if anyone wants to come get it for the market value (whatever that is). Shipping it legally is prohibitive. I also would not have believed that human activity could cause earthquakes - what could a little water injected deep in the earth here and there do? However, there does seem to be a direct correlation between the deep injection wells (for fracking fluids/waste water) and the huge number of earthquakes that we are experiencing in OK now. Based on this, I am not willing to rule out the possibility of human causes of climate change/global warming. I my self am contributing a fair amount of CO2 to the air, and releasing it higher in the atmosphere than most of you. Global Warming means just that - GLOBAL - not local. Watch the cycles of the jet stream, etc. and you can see why some areas are cooler than they used to be while the planet as a whole is getting warmer. OK has been overall warmer the last few years, mostly due to warmer winters than usual. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5736 / Virus Database: 4299/9173 - Release Date: 02/24/15 -- arche...@embarqmail.com arche...@embarqmail.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to
Well, I'm currently experiencing a mix of rain/sleet/snow here in Monroe, East of Atlanta. Just hope the power doesn't go. Don't mind the snow, but hate the ice storms. Best wishes, Roger Roger Hale Dinnerware Classics, Inc. Monroe, Ga. 770-267-0850 www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new) www.southernnightsantiques.com (antique) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to
The easy way is to blame Obama. That way you don't have to fret about the differences between weather and climate! On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 2:21 PM, rogerhga--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Well, I'm currently experiencing a mix of rain/sleet/snow here in Monroe, East of Atlanta. Just hope the power doesn't go. Don't mind the snow, but hate the ice storms. Best wishes, Roger Roger Hale Dinnerware Classics, Inc. Monroe, Ga. 770-267-0850 www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new) www.southernnightsantiques.com (antique) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to
The easy way is to blame Obama. That way you don't have to fret about the differences between weather and climate! snip Who, will of course, advise us with great authority it is Bushes Fault. Executive privilege went from The buck stops here to Pass the buck in such a short time.. Why I feel fundamentally changed. [From content and rich to angry any poor under the present leadership corpse] (Pun intended) On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The easy way is to blame Obama. That way you don't have to fret about the differences between weather and climate! On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 2:21 PM, rogerhga--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Well, I'm currently experiencing a mix of rain/sleet/snow here in Monroe, East of Atlanta. Just hope the power doesn't go. Don't mind the snow, but hate the ice storms. Best wishes, Roger Roger Hale Dinnerware Classics, Inc. Monroe, Ga. 770-267-0850 www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new) www.southernnightsantiques.com (antique) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to
I have been listening to the inane commentary on NPR about this pipeline bidness. It is quite interesting how the opponents have managed to turn the discussion around aspects that are either 1) wrong, 2) irrelevant, 3) conflated, 4) partially true, 5) idiotic, 6) ignoring certain other factual aspects, 7) all of the above. And the journalists let it all slide without making the interviewees be rigorous in their arguments. It is a wonder to behold, I remember now why I missed sending in some dinero during the begathon the last 3 weeks. Note that this has nothing to do with my opinion on the matter, just an observation on how it has all unfolded. Even one of my TEA party-type friends was ecstatic Obama vetoed the bill, and got lots of likes from other flaming lib friends on his view. I tried to point out some aspects of his views on the matter that were positively wrong but he would not be swayed by facts. --R On 2/25/15 4:43 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: The easy way is to blame Obama. That way you don't have to fret about the differences between weather and climate! On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 2:21 PM, rogerhga--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Well, I'm currently experiencing a mix of rain/sleet/snow here in Monroe, East of Atlanta. Just hope the power doesn't go. Don't mind the snow, but hate the ice storms. Best wishes, Roger Roger Hale Dinnerware Classics, Inc. Monroe, Ga. 770-267-0850 www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new) www.southernnightsantiques.com (antique) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to
On 2/25/2015 5:09 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: I have been listening to the inane commentary on NPR about this pipeline bidness. It is quite interesting how the opponents have managed to turn the discussion around aspects that are either 1) wrong, 2) irrelevant, 3) conflated, 4) partially true, 5) idiotic, 6) ignoring certain other factual aspects, 7) all of the above. And the journalists let it all slide without making the interviewees be rigorous in their arguments. It is a wonder to behold, I remember now why I missed sending in some dinero during the begathon the last 3 weeks. Note that this has nothing to do with my opinion on the matter, just an observation on how it has all unfolded. Even one of my TEA party-type friends was ecstatic Obama vetoed the bill, and got lots of likes from other flaming lib friends on his view. I tried to point out some aspects of his views on the matter that were positively wrong but he would not be swayed by facts. I have been intrigued by the parallels between the climate/environment discussions and religious behavior. Recently I was talking with my brother, a fan of NPR talk shows, who explained many in the climate change camp want to eliminate the use of the word skeptic by those who don't agree with them. Skeptic is seen as an honorable word associated with scientific inquiry. Instead, since the evidence is so overwhelming in support of the climate-change-caused-humans model, anyone who doesn't buy on should be labelled denier. Really now. Believers and deniers? With no room for agnostics? I think the problem is that those wishy washy agnostic types can't be counted on to take the kind of action the climate zealots want, i.e. doing away with big cars, beefsteaks, and so forth. The idea being if our life style spews out so much CO2 why we have no moral grounds for trying to hold back all those third world types from the same thing. And the world population has grown; more than doubled just during my lifetime of 74 years. Which leads to my favorite solution - less people. We need more incentives for people to have fewer children. Gold metals, tax breaks, free stuff, permission to go to the head of lines, all that kind of thing. World wide! Dave Gilmore, Cameron WV They've all moved away said the voice of a stranger ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to
Now you're talking! On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 9:24 PM, David Kristin Gilmore via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 2/25/2015 5:09 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: I have been listening to the inane commentary on NPR about this pipeline bidness. It is quite interesting how the opponents have managed to turn the discussion around aspects that are either 1) wrong, 2) irrelevant, 3) conflated, 4) partially true, 5) idiotic, 6) ignoring certain other factual aspects, 7) all of the above. And the journalists let it all slide without making the interviewees be rigorous in their arguments. It is a wonder to behold, I remember now why I missed sending in some dinero during the begathon the last 3 weeks. Note that this has nothing to do with my opinion on the matter, just an observation on how it has all unfolded. Even one of my TEA party-type friends was ecstatic Obama vetoed the bill, and got lots of likes from other flaming lib friends on his view. I tried to point out some aspects of his views on the matter that were positively wrong but he would not be swayed by facts. I have been intrigued by the parallels between the climate/environment discussions and religious behavior. Recently I was talking with my brother, a fan of NPR talk shows, who explained many in the climate change camp want to eliminate the use of the word skeptic by those who don't agree with them. Skeptic is seen as an honorable word associated with scientific inquiry. Instead, since the evidence is so overwhelming in support of the climate-change-caused-humans model, anyone who doesn't buy on should be labelled denier. Really now. Believers and deniers? With no room for agnostics? I think the problem is that those wishy washy agnostic types can't be counted on to take the kind of action the climate zealots want, i.e. doing away with big cars, beefsteaks, and so forth. The idea being if our life style spews out so much CO2 why we have no moral grounds for trying to hold back all those third world types from the same thing. And the world population has grown; more than doubled just during my lifetime of 74 years. Which leads to my favorite solution - less people. We need more incentives for people to have fewer children.Gold metals, tax breaks, free stuff, permission to go to the head of lines, all that kind of thing. World wide! Dave Gilmore, Cameron WV They've all moved away said the voice of a stranger ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to
Which leads to my favorite solution - less people. We need more incentives for people to have fewer children. Dave Gilmore, Cameron WV They've all moved away said the voice of a stranger We have people working on that. Just recently they eliminated 21 deniers whom they thought should be headless. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to
The easy way is to blame Obama. That way you don't have to fret about the differences between weather and climate! Andrew, I'm retired now so I don't care about the difference between weather and climate, as long as the power stays on and I don't have a tornado. As to blaming Obama, what good would it do, he never takes responsibility for anything. And as Mother Nature would say, Kiss my butt, I'll do what I want to. So, if you don't leave DC and stay inside the beltway, you'll be content, no matter how much the rest of the country suffers at the hands of the great community organizer. Best Wishes, Roger Roger Hale Dinnerware Classics, Inc. Monroe, Ga. 770-267-0850 www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new) www.southernnightsantiques.com (antique) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to
To my hearing NPR was biased in favor of the pipeline. They tossed softball questions when interviewing the visiting Alberta premier or whatever you call him. On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I have been listening to the inane commentary on NPR about this pipeline bidness. It is quite interesting how the opponents have managed to turn the discussion around aspects that are either 1) wrong, 2) irrelevant, 3) conflated, 4) partially true, 5) idiotic, 6) ignoring certain other factual aspects, 7) all of the above. And the journalists let it all slide without making the interviewees be rigorous in their arguments. It is a wonder to behold, I remember now why I missed sending in some dinero during the begathon the last 3 weeks. Note that this has nothing to do with my opinion on the matter, just an observation on how it has all unfolded. Even one of my TEA party-type friends was ecstatic Obama vetoed the bill, and got lots of likes from other flaming lib friends on his view. I tried to point out some aspects of his views on the matter that were positively wrong but he would not be swayed by facts. --R On 2/25/15 4:43 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: The easy way is to blame Obama. That way you don't have to fret about the differences between weather and climate! On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 2:21 PM, rogerhga--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Well, I'm currently experiencing a mix of rain/sleet/snow here in Monroe, East of Atlanta. Just hope the power doesn't go. Don't mind the snow, but hate the ice storms. Best wishes, Roger Roger Hale Dinnerware Classics, Inc. Monroe, Ga. 770-267-0850 www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new) www.southernnightsantiques.com (antique) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Couple I purchased my home from in PNW did that. Lived in HI from nov. to April. I thought that quite extravagant until I got the first winter's electric bill. They probably got that going in the 1970's and leased out their island home for summer tourist season. The winter I upgraded to gas, the bills were down by 60%. Switched out furnace, stove and water heater. Water bill was less and electric was nominal. clay On Feb 23, 2015, at 6:54 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote: When I lived on the FL Gulf coast I met several Canadians who wintered there. They claimed it was cheaper to drain the pipes and winter in FL than to heat their homes. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Randy Bennell via Mercedes Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 6:12 PM To: dsereta...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter On 23/02/2015 4:49 PM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes wrote: Hmm. My house consumed 500 gallons of heating oil in one month with the thermostat set at 57 degrees. I just spent $600 to have ice dams removed from my roof but they were so thick that they are now only 1 foot thick at the eaves. I'm not liking this winter and I'm furthermore starting to believe that global warming is one big giant hoax. And BTW, the summers are not getting any hotter. YOU sir, need a winter home in Florida! RB (who also needs one of those) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
the chloroflorocarbons were eating the ozone over the penguins. If we had not stopped with the hair spray and freon, we would never have been able to watch all these disturbing penguin movies. clay On Feb 23, 2015, at 9:23 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes wrote: 40 years ago we had to give up R-12 because of global cooling. Now that we have global warming, why can't we use R-12 again? Seems like it would counteract global warming. Gerry Rich Thomas wrote: So, I posed this question to our guides in Patagonia in the Torres del Paine park in Chile. The mountains there are 4000ish feet high which is more than a kilometer, call it 1.5km. They told us the mountains were under a km of ice, so that makes that the ice was 2.5ish km thick (above current ground level, would have been a lot higher when the sea level was lower because of the snow/ice had a lot of water locked up), call it 7-8000 ft thick, could have been quite a bit more. That ice, except for the Great Southern Ice Sheet up in the mountains, is gone and the climate/weather there is sorta like Colorado, warm in summer, cold in winter. The guides were going on about climate change and global warming, so I asked why 2km of ice melted starting 10,000 years ago or whenever -- there were no power plants or SUVs at that time, and humans were just starting to move over to the Americas, and certainly not way down to El Fin del Mundo. They sorta locked up and dropped the subject and I didn't press it. Note that this expresses no opinion one way or the other on the subject discussed below, but I have not seen an answer to this question. I am wondering if global warming climate change disruption also caused the ice age, but it certainly was not anthropogenic. Then if a big volcano or two lets off, well then you got some pretty serious global cooling. --R On 2/23/15 4:52 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Climate change may be to blame for frigid NortheastPublished: Monday, February 23, 2015 Biting winds and frigid temperatures terrorizing the Northeast can be linked to climate change, according to scientists at Rutgers and Wisconsin universities. Researchers found that since the 1990s, the North American jet stream that pushes weather across the continent has become substantially more variable. In their view, this variability can be linked to more rapid warming in the Arctic in comparison to other parts of the world. It can also help explain the lengthy cold snaps in the Northeast. The real story is how persistent the pattern has been. It's been this way nearly continually since December 2013 ... warm in the west, cold in the east, Jennifer Francis, Rutgers climate scientist, said in an article in*Rutgers Today*. We think with the warming Arctic these types of very wavy patterns, although probably not in the same locations, will happen more often in the future. The study http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/10/1/014005/article was published in *IOPscience* (Kurt Bresswein, Lehigh Valley *Express-Times* http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2015/02/frigid_northeast_linked_to_war.html, Feb. 19). *-- MV* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5736 / Virus Database: 4293/9169 - Release Date: 02/23/15 -- arche...@embarqmail.com arche...@embarqmail.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to
There is always something to do rather than make wise comments about science or evidence. Doing things is rather inexpensive compared to the vast sums of tax that legislation squanders. Squander is reality. The rest of the hub-bub is hot air. We can live with less. We can do more. There is an inane middle ground that everyone can exist within. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
I can take a short drive across the border to Mexico and buy all the R12 I want.. Gallons or pounds of it.. I guess R12 doesn't cause global warming in Mexico? With a license [available via testing online, BTW.] I can purchase R12 at the local Air Conditioning supply store [hey, it's Phoenix, AC rules, we have AC parts supermarkets here]. The over the counter, Phoenix R12 is costly, but available. The over the counter Mexican R12 isn't so costly... both preform the same, made to same standard.. On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 1:47 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Curly wrote: 40 years ago we had to give up R-12 because of global cooling. Now that we have global warming, why can't we use R-12 again? Seems like it would counteract global warming. Gerry That too was a hoax. We had to abandon r-12 because the dupont patent was expiring. They had the best pols money could buy, as well as extremist groups. Hmm. A patent is valid for 20 years - right? R-12 was developed (patented?) in the 1930's. How then would the patent expire in the 1990s? Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I should do some research... -- Philip I thought it was an interesting coincidence that DuPont just happened to have R-134 developed, tested, and ready to sell in large quantities about the time that R-12 was banned. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Curly wrote: 40 years ago we had to give up R-12 because of global cooling. Now that we have global warming, why can't we use R-12 again? Seems like it would counteract global warming. Gerry That too was a hoax. We had to abandon r-12 because the dupont patent was expiring. They had the best pols money could buy, as well as extremist groups. Hmm. A patent is valid for 20 years - right? R-12 was developed (patented?) in the 1930's. How then would the patent expire in the 1990s? Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I should do some research... -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Curly wrote: 40 years ago we had to give up R-12 because of global cooling. Now that we have global warming, why can't we use R-12 again? Seems like it would counteract global warming. Gerry That too was a hoax. We had to abandon r-12 because the dupont patent was expiring. They had the best pols money could buy, as well as extremist groups. Hmm. A patent is valid for 20 years - right? R-12 was developed (patented?) in the 1930's. How then would the patent expire in the 1990s? Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I should do some research... -- Philip Dupont could have developed a cheaper way to make R-12 and then gotten a process patent on it 17 years before it was banned. Process patents are as good as original patents if competitors can't compete on price as a result. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Curly wrote: 40 years ago we had to give up R-12 because of global cooling. Now that we have global warming, why can't we use R-12 again? Seems like it would counteract global warming. Gerry That too was a hoax. We had to abandon r-12 because the dupont patent was expiring. They had the best pols money could buy, as well as extremist groups. Hmm. A patent is valid for 20 years - right? R-12 was developed (patented?) in the 1930's. How then would the patent expire in the 1990s? Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I should do some research... -- Philip I thought it was an interesting coincidence that DuPont just happened to have R-134 developed, tested, and ready to sell in large quantities about the time that R-12 was banned. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Oh, the joys of conspiracy theories! So much more comforting than dealing with truth. On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 1:03 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: 40 years ago we had to give up R-12 because of global cooling. Now that we have global warming, why can't we use R-12 again? Seems like it would counteract global warming. Gerry That too was a hoax. We had to abandon r-12 because the dupont patent was expiring. They had the best pols money could buy, as well as extremist groups. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
On 23/02/2015 11:09 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote: Well.. it seems my questions and suggestions may have touched a nerve or two... good. Some are stimulated to spew.. others are stimulated to do.. you decide. As for myself, I see indication the numbers were skewed, information was spewed, and we were screwed.. Further, I see indications that bad science was accepted as the foundational logic for further studies and epic announcements of climate change causes and effects. I find this troubling. I do note, however, that since Al Gore has closed his mouth, winters have gotten much colder.. logic would indicate it is from the sudden shortfall of hot air Vengeance is Mine, Sayeth the Lord Every time albore and his buddies had a global warming convention, it was extremely cold and nasty. God has a sense of humor! Unfortunately, the narcissists completely missed the point He was making. ___ I like that. The other thing that just totally amazes me is that albore thinks he is getting away with his global warming cr*p, but we all know he lives in a mansion and flies to these meetings in his private jet. How do you spell Hypocrite? Hypocrit? Hipokrit? Hypockrit or is it albore? RB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
I don't know what to think. The truth is that my part of the world is getting colder, not warmer. It is my understanding that warming is responsible for the climate change as we now call it. Problem is that I don't see any warming but polar ice caps are melting so how is that explained? And our ozone layer has a big hole in it! Sent from my iPhone On Feb 24, 2015, at 11:32 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Oh, the joys of conspiracy theories! So much more comforting than dealing with truth. On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 1:03 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: 40 years ago we had to give up R-12 because of global cooling. Now that we have global warming, why can't we use R-12 again? Seems like it would counteract global warming. Gerry That too was a hoax. We had to abandon r-12 because the dupont patent was expiring. They had the best pols money could buy, as well as extremist groups. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Even if the global warmers are correct, and the solution is a massive worldwide decline in the use of fossil fuels; how is anyone going to stop China and 100+ nations from using fossil fuels and/or stopping practices that increase CO2? Is China going to stop using coal, a major source of pollution that runs nearly everything in their country? Improving the situation is impossible unless one is thinking of building enough solar and nuclear plants over the long time interval that would be required. When Americans talk to the leaders of other polluting countries about doing something now, their answer is: Give us the money to do it and we'll do it. It will be an impossible task irregardless of whether the global warmers are right or wrong. Gerry OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: R-12 has nothing to do with global warming. It destroys the ozone layer, letting more of the harmful UV rays reach the surface. The hole over Antarctica has closed significantly since the R-12 ban. I don't know that there is a cause/effect relationship here, but the coincidence does seems to lead us innocents to believe that there is. Mexico must not use much R-12. I do have 10 -12 lbs (in one bottle) of virgin R-12 if anyone wants to come get it for the market value (whatever that is). Shipping it legally is prohibitive. I also would not have believed that human activity could cause earthquakes - what could a little water injected deep in the earth here and there do? However, there does seem to be a direct correlation between the deep injection wells (for fracking fluids/waste water) and the huge number of earthquakes that we are experiencing in OK now. Based on this, I am not willing to rule out the possibility of human causes of climate change/global warming. I my self am contributing a fair amount of CO2 to the air, and releasing it higher in the atmosphere than most of you. Global Warming means just that - GLOBAL - not local. Watch the cycles of the jet stream, etc. and you can see why some areas are cooler than they used to be while the planet as a whole is getting warmer. OK has been overall warmer the last few years, mostly due to warmer winters than usual. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5736 / Virus Database: 4299/9173 - Release Date: 02/24/15 -- arche...@embarqmail.com arche...@embarqmail.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 3:08 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: snipI guess R12 doesn't cause global warming in Mexico? R-12 has nothing to do with global warming. It destroys the ozone layer, letting more of the harmful UV rays reach the surface. The hole over Antarctica has closed significantly since the R-12 ban. I don't know that there is a cause/effect relationship here, but the coincidence does seems to lead us innocents to believe that there is. Mexico must not use much R-12. I do have 10 -12 lbs (in one bottle) of virgin R-12 if anyone wants to come get it for the market value (whatever that is). Shipping it legally is prohibitive. I also would not have believed that human activity could cause earthquakes - what could a little water injected deep in the earth here and there do? However, there does seem to be a direct correlation between the deep injection wells (for fracking fluids/waste water) and the huge number of earthquakes that we are experiencing in OK now. Based on this, I am not willing to rule out the possibility of human causes of climate change/global warming. I my self am contributing a fair amount of CO2 to the air, and releasing it higher in the atmosphere than most of you. Global Warming means just that - GLOBAL - not local. Watch the cycles of the jet stream, etc. and you can see why some areas are cooler than they used to be while the planet as a whole is getting warmer. OK has been overall warmer the last few years, mostly due to warmer winters than usual. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Having traveled to China in the past two year, I can say without hesitation it is one of the most polluted places ever on the face of the earth. We in America pay through the nose to have our cars inspected each year, and through the nose for ever tighter EPA regulations, while the cloud of pollution that hovers over China drifts into the weather patterns of the Pacific, which feed the weather patterns of the US Continent, due to earths direction of rotation. Add to China, all the other pollution from countries on the Pacific rim and everything we pay for and are charged here becomes worthless. Unless you have been there and walked the streets, it's really not possible to grasp the magnitude of pollution being produced there. All those companies that were fined and punished by the EPA over the past 25 years are now operating there, with no EPA to contend with.. or labor laws.. AND.. you can buy a public official in China.. Paradise surely.. I'm sure vlad and his buddies are very conscientious about not making messes, and cleaning up after themselves too. Oh, and those nice folks in the mideast are quite tidy also. It won't matter in 10years or so. Our dear leader is busy making sure the guys in Tehran will be able to build their nukes. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Having traveled to China in the past two year, I can say without hesitation it is one of the most polluted places ever on the face of the earth. We in America pay through the nose to have our cars inspected each year, and through the nose for ever tighter EPA regulations, while the cloud of pollution that hovers over China drifts into the weather patterns of the Pacific, which feed the weather patterns of the US Continent, due to earths direction of rotation. Add to China, all the other pollution from countries on the Pacific rim and everything we pay for and are charged here becomes worthless. Unless you have been there and walked the streets, it's really not possible to grasp the magnitude of pollution being produced there. All those companies that were fined and punished by the EPA over the past 25 years are now operating there, with no EPA to contend with.. or labor laws.. AND.. you can buy a public official in China.. Paradise surely.. On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 6:48 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Even if the global warmers are correct, and the solution is a massive worldwide decline in the use of fossil fuels; how is anyone going to stop China and 100+ nations from using fossil fuels and/or stopping practices that increase CO2? Is China going to stop using coal, a major source of pollution that runs nearly everything in their country? Improving the situation is impossible unless one is thinking of building enough solar and nuclear plants over the long time interval that would be required. When Americans talk to the leaders of other polluting countries about doing something now, their answer is: Give us the money to do it and we'll do it. It will be an impossible task irregardless of whether the global warmers are right or wrong. Gerry OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: R-12 has nothing to do with global warming. It destroys the ozone layer, letting more of the harmful UV rays reach the surface. The hole over Antarctica has closed significantly since the R-12 ban. I don't know that there is a cause/effect relationship here, but the coincidence does seems to lead us innocents to believe that there is. Mexico must not use much R-12. I do have 10 -12 lbs (in one bottle) of virgin R-12 if anyone wants to come get it for the market value (whatever that is). Shipping it legally is prohibitive. I also would not have believed that human activity could cause earthquakes - what could a little water injected deep in the earth here and there do? However, there does seem to be a direct correlation between the deep injection wells (for fracking fluids/waste water) and the huge number of earthquakes that we are experiencing in OK now. Based on this, I am not willing to rule out the possibility of human causes of climate change/global warming. I my self am contributing a fair amount of CO2 to the air, and releasing it higher in the atmosphere than most of you. Global Warming means just that - GLOBAL - not local. Watch the cycles of the jet stream, etc. and you can see why some areas are cooler than they used to be while the planet as a whole is getting warmer. OK has been overall warmer the last few years, mostly due to warmer winters than usual. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5736 / Virus Database: 4299/9173 - Release Date: 02/24/15 -- arche...@embarqmail.com arche...@embarqmail.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
I do not recall the technical details but an article in the paper here on the weekend suggests that the issue is one of the sun going through a cooler cycle. It suggests that the winter that you folks have been suffering through may become a normal thing for the next 30 years or so as the cycle works its way through. You had best pray for some global warming. RB On 23/02/2015 3:52 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Climate change may be to blame for frigid NortheastPublished: Monday, February 23, 2015 Biting winds and frigid temperatures terrorizing the Northeast can be linked to climate change, according to scientists at Rutgers and Wisconsin universities. Researchers found that since the 1990s, the North American jet stream that pushes weather across the continent has become substantially more variable. In their view, this variability can be linked to more rapid warming in the Arctic in comparison to other parts of the world. It can also help explain the lengthy cold snaps in the Northeast. The real story is how persistent the pattern has been. It's been this way nearly continually since December 2013 ... warm in the west, cold in the east, Jennifer Francis, Rutgers climate scientist, said in an article in*Rutgers Today*. We think with the warming Arctic these types of very wavy patterns, although probably not in the same locations, will happen more often in the future. The study http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/10/1/014005/article was published in *IOPscience* (Kurt Bresswein, Lehigh Valley *Express-Times* http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2015/02/frigid_northeast_linked_to_war.html, Feb. 19). *-- MV* ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
I'm not seeing anything warm on this globe. Climate change I am seeing but how can it be attributed to warming if things are getting colder- much colder. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 23, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I do not recall the technical details but an article in the paper here on the weekend suggests that the issue is one of the sun going through a cooler cycle. It suggests that the winter that you folks have been suffering through may become a normal thing for the next 30 years or so as the cycle works its way through. You had best pray for some global warming. RB On 23/02/2015 3:52 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Climate change may be to blame for frigid NortheastPublished: Monday, February 23, 2015 Biting winds and frigid temperatures terrorizing the Northeast can be linked to climate change, according to scientists at Rutgers and Wisconsin universities. Researchers found that since the 1990s, the North American jet stream that pushes weather across the continent has become substantially more variable. In their view, this variability can be linked to more rapid warming in the Arctic in comparison to other parts of the world. It can also help explain the lengthy cold snaps in the Northeast. The real story is how persistent the pattern has been. It's been this way nearly continually since December 2013 ... warm in the west, cold in the east, Jennifer Francis, Rutgers climate scientist, said in an article in*Rutgers Today*. We think with the warming Arctic these types of very wavy patterns, although probably not in the same locations, will happen more often in the future. The study http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/10/1/014005/article was published in *IOPscience* (Kurt Bresswein, Lehigh Valley *Express-Times* http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2015/02/frigid_northeast_linked_to_war.html, Feb. 19). *-- MV* ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Climate change may be to blame for frigid NortheastPublished: Monday, February 23, 2015 Hoya! And butter will kill you and coffee will kill you and so it goes. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Not me, I'm enjoying all the snow. Did I mention I've been allowed to drive the trail groomer? Drove about half an hour (so about 4 miles) on Friday night and about double that on Saturday. Saturday he had me working the drag a little bit, Friday was just learning to steer and run the speed. Its interesting driving a 10' 6 (I'd previously said it was 8' but I was wrong) machine through the woods. Some of the gates are only 11' wide... -Curt From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter I do not recall the technical details but an article in the paper here on the weekend suggests that the issue is one of the sun going through a cooler cycle. It suggests that the winter that you folks have been suffering through may become a normal thing for the next 30 years or so as the cycle works its way through. You had best pray for some global warming. RB On 23/02/2015 3:52 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Climate change may be to blame for frigid NortheastPublished: Monday, February 23, 2015 Biting winds and frigid temperatures terrorizing the Northeast can be linked to climate change, according to scientists at Rutgers and Wisconsin universities. Researchers found that since the 1990s, the North American jet stream that pushes weather across the continent has become substantially more variable. In their view, this variability can be linked to more rapid warming in the Arctic in comparison to other parts of the world. It can also help explain the lengthy cold snaps in the Northeast. The real story is how persistent the pattern has been. It's been this way nearly continually since December 2013 ... warm in the west, cold in the east, Jennifer Francis, Rutgers climate scientist, said in an article in*Rutgers Today*. We think with the warming Arctic these types of very wavy patterns, although probably not in the same locations, will happen more often in the future. The study http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/10/1/014005/article was published in *IOPscience* (Kurt Bresswein, Lehigh Valley *Express-Times* http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2015/02/frigid_northeast_linked_to_war.html, Feb. 19). *-- MV* ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
So, I posed this question to our guides in Patagonia in the Torres del Paine park in Chile. The mountains there are 4000ish feet high which is more than a kilometer, call it 1.5km. They told us the mountains were under a km of ice, so that makes that the ice was 2.5ish km thick (above current ground level, would have been a lot higher when the sea level was lower because of the snow/ice had a lot of water locked up), call it 7-8000 ft thick, could have been quite a bit more. That ice, except for the Great Southern Ice Sheet up in the mountains, is gone and the climate/weather there is sorta like Colorado, warm in summer, cold in winter. The guides were going on about climate change and global warming, so I asked why 2km of ice melted starting 10,000 years ago or whenever -- there were no power plants or SUVs at that time, and humans were just starting to move over to the Americas, and certainly not way down to El Fin del Mundo. They sorta locked up and dropped the subject and I didn't press it. Note that this expresses no opinion one way or the other on the subject discussed below, but I have not seen an answer to this question. I am wondering if global warming climate change disruption also caused the ice age, but it certainly was not anthropogenic. Then if a big volcano or two lets off, well then you got some pretty serious global cooling. --R On 2/23/15 4:52 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Climate change may be to blame for frigid NortheastPublished: Monday, February 23, 2015 Biting winds and frigid temperatures terrorizing the Northeast can be linked to climate change, according to scientists at Rutgers and Wisconsin universities. Researchers found that since the 1990s, the North American jet stream that pushes weather across the continent has become substantially more variable. In their view, this variability can be linked to more rapid warming in the Arctic in comparison to other parts of the world. It can also help explain the lengthy cold snaps in the Northeast. The real story is how persistent the pattern has been. It's been this way nearly continually since December 2013 ... warm in the west, cold in the east, Jennifer Francis, Rutgers climate scientist, said in an article in*Rutgers Today*. We think with the warming Arctic these types of very wavy patterns, although probably not in the same locations, will happen more often in the future. The study http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/10/1/014005/article was published in *IOPscience* (Kurt Bresswein, Lehigh Valley *Express-Times* http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2015/02/frigid_northeast_linked_to_war.html, Feb. 19). *-- MV* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Hmm. My house consumed 500 gallons of heating oil in one month with the thermostat set at 57 degrees. I just spent $600 to have ice dams removed from my roof but they were so thick that they are now only 1 foot thick at the eaves. I'm not liking this winter and I'm furthermore starting to believe that global warming is one big giant hoax. And BTW, the summers are not getting any hotter. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 23, 2015, at 5:39 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Not me, I'm enjoying all the snow. Did I mention I've been allowed to drive the trail groomer? Drove about half an hour (so about 4 miles) on Friday night and about double that on Saturday. Saturday he had me working the drag a little bit, Friday was just learning to steer and run the speed. Its interesting driving a 10' 6 (I'd previously said it was 8' but I was wrong) machine through the woods. Some of the gates are only 11' wide... -Curt From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter I do not recall the technical details but an article in the paper here on the weekend suggests that the issue is one of the sun going through a cooler cycle. It suggests that the winter that you folks have been suffering through may become a normal thing for the next 30 years or so as the cycle works its way through. You had best pray for some global warming. RB On 23/02/2015 3:52 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Climate change may be to blame for frigid NortheastPublished: Monday, February 23, 2015 Biting winds and frigid temperatures terrorizing the Northeast can be linked to climate change, according to scientists at Rutgers and Wisconsin universities. Researchers found that since the 1990s, the North American jet stream that pushes weather across the continent has become substantially more variable. In their view, this variability can be linked to more rapid warming in the Arctic in comparison to other parts of the world. It can also help explain the lengthy cold snaps in the Northeast. The real story is how persistent the pattern has been. It's been this way nearly continually since December 2013 ... warm in the west, cold in the east, Jennifer Francis, Rutgers climate scientist, said in an article in*Rutgers Today*. We think with the warming Arctic these types of very wavy patterns, although probably not in the same locations, will happen more often in the future. The study http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/10/1/014005/article was published in *IOPscience* (Kurt Bresswein, Lehigh Valley *Express-Times* http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2015/02/frigid_northeast_linked_to_war.html, Feb. 19). *-- MV* ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
On 23/02/2015 4:18 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote: Climate change may be to blame for frigid NortheastPublished: Monday, February 23, 2015 Hoya! And butter will kill you and coffee will kill you and so it goes. ___ But BEER is good for you. RB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Your point is... ? On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 5:18 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Climate change may be to blame for frigid NortheastPublished: Monday, February 23, 2015 Hoya! And butter will kill you and coffee will kill you and so it goes. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
And proof of God's love. -Curt From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Curly McLain 126die...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter On 23/02/2015 4:18 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote: Climate change may be to blame for frigid NortheastPublished: Monday, February 23, 2015 Hoya! And butter will kill you and coffee will kill you and so it goes. ___ But BEER is good for you. RB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
R-12 was banned due to the destruction of the ozone layer, which is in much better shape now that it was 20 years ago. No recent stories of pigs in Australia with skin cancers on their ears. There was no global cooling, and as far as I remember, no one I was around in those days paid any attention to the notion. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
40 years ago we had to give up R-12 because of global cooling. Now that we have global warming, why can't we use R-12 again? Seems like it would counteract global warming. Gerry That too was a hoax. We had to abandon r-12 because the dupont patent was expiring. They had the best pols money could buy, as well as extremist groups. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Craig: I also have a PhD, I'm not an ignorant yahoo from under a rock. Over the four decades I've been paying attention to this subject, I've had the opportunity to work with people directly involved in the discussion at several universities and Forestry Canada, where I did a Post-Doc. I have not heard serious debate about either the fact nor the consequences of global warming for a very long time from climatologists or ecologists. This is because under clintonistas, dissent was suppressed. It still is. I know of University climatologists who called it hoya from the beginning, and still do. I have heard considerable discussion of magnitude of effects and timing and self-correcting mechanisms, but amongst the academics outside the fossil fuel industry, global climate change to a much warmer planet and wilder weather is a done deal, and has been for a couple decades. The only debate comes from outside academic research facilities, primarily from organizations funded by the fossil fuel industry. Climate change is indeed cyclical, but there is a significant difference between this warming cycle and the last one, specifically that the CO2 content of the atmosphere is very much higher than it has been as far back as the ice data from Greenland and Antarctica goes. I have heard some speculation that the CO2 level in the atmosphere has not been this high since the last massive species die-off, although I suspect that would be somewhat hard to clearly demonstrate. This is only true IF you believe the corrupt data and the corrupt modelling software. The corruption has been exposed outside NA, but is suppressed in the USA and evidently, Canada. Again, GIGO. That proves nothing. The last time we had very warm and dry conditions in the US, the tall grass grasslands (think Kansas) extended into eastern Ohio. Most of what is now short grass grasslands was desert, and the desert areas in the southwest were as dry as the Sahara. What would it be like with even more heat? Beware material produced by people with a PAID agenda. Peter, you are Absolutely right. University scientists are, by and large, independent. No More. They ALL depend on Gooberment agendas or the agenda of some other organization. Nearly ALL university positions are bought and paid for, as are the results Ask Prof. Guiterrez, formerly of ISU, about academic freedom Plenty of other examples. Almost all ag research is funded by the big 3 or 4 chemical/seed companies, or with goobermnt money guided by people who work, or worked for the Chem/seed companies or big pharma. People who work for foundations funded by sources wishing to perpetuate a highly profitable business are highly suspect. You don't think albore has made money on this hoax? A PhD does not make one immune to corruption, as the sludge produced by any number of think tanks demonstrates quite nicely. I don't know if you are old enough to have grown up in the 60's, or missed that decade of insanity, but I personally learned to sift through the propaganda generated by organizations dedicated to enriching themselves at other people's expense and to verify data and conclusions from a rational rather than emotional viewpoint. Saves endless trouble. In this day and age when everything is reversed you make me laugh when you accuse university scientist of faking data to get grants by quoting people being paid by the Koch brothers to muddy the water. Mirrors everywhere, and more than enough smoke being blown. The faked data is all there in the Telegraph articles, if you would dare to read it. Even published scientific papers have to be evaluated carefully, Dead right again, Peter. In the publish or perish academic works most of what is published is garbage. We were trained to pick it apart. In nearly every case outside Ag, the statistics are worthless. In ag, the results are what Big Chem or big pharma wants to see. The whole system is corrupt, and I will stand up and call it Hoya! If not the stat, then the methodology, or sample don't stand up. particularly when they are not based on precise data (and no climate data is precise, climate is a chaotic system). One must always consider the source, the source of funding, and the known or possible agenda of anything that smacks of politics or social behavior, they cannot be neatly quantified in the way physical measurements are. Absolutely! Peter you are absolutely RIGHT again. U East Anglia faked the temp data. it is documented outside the USA. Only in the USA is the myth sustained. Consider the source, the source of funding, and the known or possible agenda of anything that smacks of politics or social behavior. Those elements are there in the faked East Anglia data and in the data faked by the USA. Those elements are there in the corrupt modelling software. Again, the corruption has been documented outside the
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
--R wrote: ...but it certainly was not anthropogenic. Were you there? Did you witness lack of anthropogenic? We really have propensity to jump to conclusions. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Or.. perhaps it could have been to cover the tactical error of cooking the books and outright lying about the scientific findings which kept them in grant money for more than a decade.. perhaps... The question comes could a grant be made to do the calculation of actual cost result of the decade of fabrication by the self appointed experts who called global warming and then assigned all the various causes, which resulted in social engineering legislation and regulation... Ohh... and lost jobs... and lost taxes from lost incomes.. Maybe we can find a slick shyster and sue albore as a class action? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
There has been indeed a great deal of money spent and fake data generated in the climate debate, but it's all from the fossil fuel industry aimed at convincing the general public that climate change is a hoax. Peter, I respect you very much but this paragraph is dead wrong. Read the Telegraph articles about how the climate researchers and our federal goobermnt fabricated data to show a warming climate when there was none. This is in no way intended to demean you in the least, but to point out the sources of the errors. There is also ample evidence the computer models used to make predictions are corrupt. You know: Garbage in, Garbage out. All the evidence is based on corrupted data and corrupt software, designed to produce the desired results. None of the anti climate change people are climatologists, and the vast majority of them do not have any real qualifications in science. This too is untrue. there are many climatologists who called Foul! years ago. They have been harrasses and nearly silenced. Now more are getting brave enough to speak out and many more are now finding out they have been scammed. They do produce very high quality deliverables for their clients -- Mobil, the Koch Brothers, and the coal industry. Very expensive deliverables, too -- couple billion dollars worth. As does the climate change industry for albore and his crowd who are making billions off the hoax. Of the 19,464 peer reviewed scientific articles concerning climate change published since about 1975, about 26 do not support rapidly accelerating human caused climate change. I have read papers, lots of papers in grad school, and the vast majority is pure BS. Any good statistician will tell you so. How many papers or data sets that did not fit the template have been rejected? You surely know, that the authors of each paper write it to the tastes for the review board. If the publication wants it and your grant funding depends on it, you WILL distort the data, or lie with statistics to prove what you want. Read How to Lie with Statistics It is old, but it is the textbook for climate scientists who believe in Global Warming Climate Change or whetever the next name will be. Learn some statistics, Get a BS meter, do some real science reading, and turn off CNN, CBS NBCBS, ABCBS, MSNBCBS, news, and stop reading that blog started by some furrin dumb blond rich bitch.. The BS meter goes off the charts on every Pro climate change (or whatever the currently in vogue name is) scientific article. The global warming/climate change hoax also reveals the other great hoax of our time: education including higher education Fortunately, when I went to Jr High and HS, we were taught to use critical thinking and challenge the premises. I'd guess 90% of the published scholarly articles are pure hogwash, with unsound statistics. But the profs need publications, so the good ol boy system is at work. I'll approve yours if you approve mine. My Master's thesis was nothing outstanding, but it was real research in an unexplored area, and the statistics were good. At a large Research 1 university, it earned a research excellence award because real research is so scarce. After that, the department chair was plagiarizing furrin grad students' papers and publishing them under his name as his research. More Fraud. The research 1 university covered for him, threatened all the grad students and got him a job as a DEAN at a lesser university. Unless the scientific paper is more than 30 years old, and in the fields of agriculture or vet Med, it has a very high probability of being BS. Aside from the scientific arguments, I also have the power of observation, and the privilege of living through some major volcanic eruptions. A Lean some science, do some real science reading, and turn off Fox news. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
40 years ago we had to give up R-12 because of global cooling. Now that we have global warming, why can't we use R-12 again? Seems like it would counteract global warming. Gerry Rich Thomas wrote: So, I posed this question to our guides in Patagonia in the Torres del Paine park in Chile. The mountains there are 4000ish feet high which is more than a kilometer, call it 1.5km. They told us the mountains were under a km of ice, so that makes that the ice was 2.5ish km thick (above current ground level, would have been a lot higher when the sea level was lower because of the snow/ice had a lot of water locked up), call it 7-8000 ft thick, could have been quite a bit more. That ice, except for the Great Southern Ice Sheet up in the mountains, is gone and the climate/weather there is sorta like Colorado, warm in summer, cold in winter. The guides were going on about climate change and global warming, so I asked why 2km of ice melted starting 10,000 years ago or whenever -- there were no power plants or SUVs at that time, and humans were just starting to move over to the Americas, and certainly not way down to El Fin del Mundo. They sorta locked up and dropped the subject and I didn't press it. Note that this expresses no opinion one way or the other on the subject discussed below, but I have not seen an answer to this question. I am wondering if global warming climate change disruption also caused the ice age, but it certainly was not anthropogenic. Then if a big volcano or two lets off, well then you got some pretty serious global cooling. --R On 2/23/15 4:52 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Climate change may be to blame for frigid NortheastPublished: Monday, February 23, 2015 Biting winds and frigid temperatures terrorizing the Northeast can be linked to climate change, according to scientists at Rutgers and Wisconsin universities. Researchers found that since the 1990s, the North American jet stream that pushes weather across the continent has become substantially more variable. In their view, this variability can be linked to more rapid warming in the Arctic in comparison to other parts of the world. It can also help explain the lengthy cold snaps in the Northeast. The real story is how persistent the pattern has been. It's been this way nearly continually since December 2013 ... warm in the west, cold in the east, Jennifer Francis, Rutgers climate scientist, said in an article in*Rutgers Today*. We think with the warming Arctic these types of very wavy patterns, although probably not in the same locations, will happen more often in the future. The study http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/10/1/014005/article was published in *IOPscience* (Kurt Bresswein, Lehigh Valley *Express-Times* http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2015/02/frigid_northeast_linked_to_war.html, Feb. 19). *-- MV* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5736 / Virus Database: 4293/9169 - Release Date: 02/23/15 -- arche...@embarqmail.com arche...@embarqmail.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Maybe CO2 is an icebox gas? CO2 has to be the problem or the political leverage is lost. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of dseretakis--- via Mercedes Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 5:11 PM To: Randy Bennell; Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter I'm not seeing anything warm on this globe. Climate change I am seeing but how can it be attributed to warming if things are getting colder- much colder. Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Well.. it seems my questions and suggestions may have touched a nerve or two... good. Some are stimulated to spew.. others are stimulated to do.. you decide. As for myself, I see indication the numbers were skewed, information was spewed, and we were screwed.. Further, I see indications that bad science was accepted as the foundational logic for further studies and epic announcements of climate change causes and effects. I find this troubling. I do note, however, that since Al Gore has closed his mouth, winters have gotten much colder.. logic would indicate it is from the sudden shortfall of hot air Vengeance is Mine, Sayeth the Lord Every time albore and his buddies had a global warming convention, it was extremely cold and nasty. God has a sense of humor! Unfortunately, the narcissists completely missed the point He was making. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Randy wrote: But BEER is good for you. What is the trio of lines about beer? I drink beer so that... When beer does... Therefore beer is... Someone? mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Tell me why the term global warming went into disfavor? In it's place, some climatologists now use the term climate change. Why? Sent from my iPhone On Feb 23, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: --R wrote: ...but it certainly was not anthropogenic. Were you there? Did you witness lack of anthropogenic? We really have propensity to jump to conclusions. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 20:30:28 -0600 Peter Frederick via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: None of the anti climate change people are climatologists, and the vast majority of them do not have any real qualifications in science. They do produce very high quality deliverables for their clients -- Mobil, the Koch Brothers, and the coal industry. Very expensive deliverables, too -- couple billion dollars worth. Of the 19,464 peer reviewed scientific articles concerning climate change published since about 1975, about 26 do not support rapidly accelerating human caused climate change. Lean some science, do some real science reading, and turn off Fox news. Peter, We have been at this before. Stop spouting your nonsense; it is not backed up by real science. There are many who do not suscribe to the current climate hysteria fad who have superlative credentials as climatologists. Their contributions are suppressed because they do not conform to the present political correctness. There are many who do subscribe to the current climate hysteria fad because it lines their pockets and gives them power. There are many who spout of as knowledgable sources who have nothing more than a good microphone. You are the one who needs to learn some science and do some real science reading. Craig Ph.D. Physics ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Craig: I also have a PhD, I'm not an ignorant yahoo from under a rock. Over the four decades I've been paying attention to this subject, I've had the opportunity to work with people directly involved in the discussion at several universities and Forestry Canada, where I did a Post-Doc. I have not heard serious debate about either the fact nor the consequences of global warming for a very long time from climatologists or ecologists. I have heard considerable discussion of magnitude of effects and timing and self-correcting mechanisms, but amongst the academics outside the fossil fuel industry, global climate change to a much warmer planet and wilder weather is a done deal, and has been for a couple decades. The only debate comes from outside academic research facilities, primarily from organizations funded by the fossil fuel industry. Climate change is indeed cyclical, but there is a significant difference between this warming cycle and the last one, specifically that the CO2 content of the atmosphere is very much higher than it has been as far back as the ice data from Greenland and Antarctica goes. I have heard some speculation that the CO2 level in the atmosphere has not been this high since the last massive species die-off, although I suspect that would be somewhat hard to clearly demonstrate. The last time we had very warm and dry conditions in the US, the tall grass grasslands (think Kansas) extended into eastern Ohio. Most of what is now short grass grasslands was desert, and the desert areas in the southwest were as dry as the Sahara. What would it be like with even more heat? Beware material produced by people with a PAID agenda. University scientists are, by and large, independent. People who work for foundations funded by sources wishing to perpetuate a highly profitable business are highly suspect. A PhD does not make one immune to corruption, as the sludge produced by any number of think tanks demonstrates quite nicely. I don't know if you are old enough to have grown up in the 60's, or missed that decade of insanity, but I personally learned to sift through the propaganda generated by organizations dedicated to enriching themselves at other people's expense and to verify data and conclusions from a rational rather than emotional viewpoint. Saves endless trouble. In this day and age when everything is reversed you make me laugh when you accuse university scientist of faking data to get grants by quoting people being paid by the Koch brothers to muddy the water. Mirrors everywhere, and more than enough smoke being blown. Even published scientific papers have to be evaluated carefully, particularly when they are not based on precise data (and no climate data is precise, climate is a chaotic system). One must always consider the source, the source of funding, and the known or possible agenda of anything that smacks of politics or social behavior, they cannot be neatly quantified in the way physical measurements are. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Was it because the warming trend stopped about 15 years ago, so in order to keep the grant money flowing they had to come up with something new? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 On February 23, 2015 7:27:48 PM EST, dseretakis--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Tell me why the term global warming went into disfavor? In it's place, some climatologists now use the term climate change. Why? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Tell me why the term global warming went into disfavor? In it's place, some climatologists now use the term climate change. Why? Sent from my iPhone Most people caught on that no global warming is happening. Aside from the major prehistoric climate shifts, the solar cycles, and therefore the earth, goes through naturally occurring heating and cooling cycles of about 30 years, also since prehistoric times. The Renaissance occurred in part because Yurp had exceedingly warm years, leading to plentiful food and fewer people starving and freezing to death. When people caught on to the global warming hoax, then the Albore crowd who is making tons of money scaring people and getting laws made to favor them, buying goobermnts where ever they can, decided that the cooling that was actually occurring, just as predicted in Popular Science some 40 years ago, could be capitalized on by renaming the scam climate change. As W. Edwards Deming said decades ago, and actually he was quoting Walter Shewhart, never mis-take special cause variation for normal variation.The normal variation of the climate far exceeds the extremes of recorded temperature (climate) conditions. To use Statistical Process Control terminology, the Earth climate process is within normal variation. The upper and lower control limits are well beyond any climate that has been encountered in recorded history. The process is chugging along as designed since the Great Flood without, (and in spite of) any attempted or mistaken inputs by people. If you read the telegraph newspaper of the UK, they expose and lay bare major parts of the hoax. The USSA media is too engaged in the hoax to present any truth. More parts of the hoax were reveled by the Telegraph in the past few weeks. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 17:49:37 -0500 dseretakis--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I'm not liking this winter and I'm furthermore starting to believe that global warming is one big giant hoax. It is, and a very lucrative one for those who want to control you and for those who want to take your money and live off the dole. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
There has been indeed a great deal of money spent and fake data generated in the climate debate, but it's all from the fossil fuel industry aimed at convincing the general public that climate change is a hoax. None of the anti climate change people are climatologists, and the vast majority of them do not have any real qualifications in science. They do produce very high quality deliverables for their clients -- Mobil, the Koch Brothers, and the coal industry. Very expensive deliverables, too -- couple billion dollars worth. Of the 19,464 peer reviewed scientific articles concerning climate change published since about 1975, about 26 do not support rapidly accelerating human caused climate change. Lean some science, do some real science reading, and turn off Fox news. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Well.. it seems my questions and suggestions may have touched a nerve or two... good. Some are stimulated to spew.. others are stimulated to do.. you decide. As for myself, I see indication the numbers were skewed, information was spewed, and we were screwed.. Further, I see indications that bad science was accepted as the foundational logic for further studies and epic announcements of climate change causes and effects. I find this troubling. I do note, however, that since Al Gore has closed his mouth, winters have gotten much colder.. logic would indicate it is from the sudden shortfall of hot air On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 20:30:28 -0600 Peter Frederick via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: None of the anti climate change people are climatologists, and the vast majority of them do not have any real qualifications in science. They do produce very high quality deliverables for their clients -- Mobil, the Koch Brothers, and the coal industry. Very expensive deliverables, too -- couple billion dollars worth. Of the 19,464 peer reviewed scientific articles concerning climate change published since about 1975, about 26 do not support rapidly accelerating human caused climate change. Lean some science, do some real science reading, and turn off Fox news. Peter, We have been at this before. Stop spouting your nonsense; it is not backed up by real science. There are many who do not suscribe to the current climate hysteria fad who have superlative credentials as climatologists. Their contributions are suppressed because they do not conform to the present political correctness. There are many who do subscribe to the current climate hysteria fad because it lines their pockets and gives them power. There are many who spout of as knowledgable sources who have nothing more than a good microphone. You are the one who needs to learn some science and do some real science reading. Craig Ph.D. Physics ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
Well.. it seems my questions and suggestions may have touched a nerve or two... good. Some are stimulated to spew.. others are stimulated to do.. you decide. As for myself, I see indication the numbers were skewed, information was spewed, and we were screwed.. Further, I see indications that bad science was accepted as the foundational logic for further studies and epic announcements of climate change causes and effects. I find this troubling. I do note, however, that since Al Gore has closed his mouth, winters have gotten much colder.. logic would indicate it is from the sudden shortfall of hot air When I lived on the slopes of Kilauea, we had company speakers, and also lectures at the HVNP on Wed nights. Some of these speakers were from the Hawaii Volcano Observatory. They told us in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS, before the albore crowd invented global warming that the amount of pollution, and airborne solids from a volcanic eruption far exceeds the pollution from fossil fuels. THis information has been suppressed, beginning in the clinton era, and continuing until now. For reference, when St. Helens blew, the alarmists said we'd be suffering the effects for years. COld winters, crop failures, etc. We got a little ash dripped out about a week later, sand size granules, and it was overcast for a few days. Nothing unusual. Same with Pinetubo. Also, no long term effect, except locally. Our lil ol planet is much more resilient than the albore crowd gives it credit for.Nothing but NORMAL VARIATION, since the Great Flood. Just think about it logically. Here is a short term event (in the cases of most recent eruptions, except Kilauea) that spews enough pollutants, gases, rock dust, steam etc to cover maybe a quarter of the globe or more. Check the satellite images and the real data. No human made event has ever done that. Not even nuclear weapons. The Earth shrugs it off, and within a few days is back to normal. Kilauea's Pu'u O'o has been going constantly since January 3, 1983. Where is the climate change caused by 32 years of constant pollution CO2, NOx, SOx, dust, steam etc. Far more than all the vehicles ever produced, and probably more than all the fossil fuels ever burned. You can't study a volcano, even in casual observation, and believe the albore hocus pocus. Drive your maybach, run a pipeline, the earth will shrug it off. Normal Variation. Read Shewharts book! It is great work from the 1930s. Probably tough to find outside a university library. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
dseretakis wrote: Climate change I am seeing but how can it be attributed to warming if things are getting colder- much colder. Becuz... We are pumping out all the good fuel used to warm the climate. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
On 23/02/2015 4:49 PM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes wrote: Hmm. My house consumed 500 gallons of heating oil in one month with the thermostat set at 57 degrees. I just spent $600 to have ice dams removed from my roof but they were so thick that they are now only 1 foot thick at the eaves. I'm not liking this winter and I'm furthermore starting to believe that global warming is one big giant hoax. And BTW, the summers are not getting any hotter. YOU sir, need a winter home in Florida! RB (who also needs one of those) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
The volcanos were mentioned in the article I mentioned earlier about cool periods of time. There is evidence of earlier periods when the sun cooled for a time and one of those coincides with a period when there were some massive eruptions too and that cooled things even more. I shall see if I still have that paper and tell you more tomorrow if so. RB On 23/02/2015 4:42 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: So, I posed this question to our guides in Patagonia in the Torres del Paine park in Chile. The mountains there are 4000ish feet high which is more than a kilometer, call it 1.5km. They told us the mountains were under a km of ice, so that makes that the ice was 2.5ish km thick (above current ground level, would have been a lot higher when the sea level was lower because of the snow/ice had a lot of water locked up), call it 7-8000 ft thick, could have been quite a bit more. That ice, except for the Great Southern Ice Sheet up in the mountains, is gone and the climate/weather there is sorta like Colorado, warm in summer, cold in winter. The guides were going on about climate change and global warming, so I asked why 2km of ice melted starting 10,000 years ago or whenever -- there were no power plants or SUVs at that time, and humans were just starting to move over to the Americas, and certainly not way down to El Fin del Mundo. They sorta locked up and dropped the subject and I didn't press it. Note that this expresses no opinion one way or the other on the subject discussed below, but I have not seen an answer to this question. I am wondering if global warming climate change disruption also caused the ice age, but it certainly was not anthropogenic. Then if a big volcano or two lets off, well then you got some pretty serious global cooling. --R On 2/23/15 4:52 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Climate change may be to blame for frigid NortheastPublished: Monday, February 23, 2015 Biting winds and frigid temperatures terrorizing the Northeast can be linked to climate change, according to scientists at Rutgers and Wisconsin universities. Researchers found that since the 1990s, the North American jet stream that pushes weather across the continent has become substantially more variable. In their view, this variability can be linked to more rapid warming in the Arctic in comparison to other parts of the world. It can also help explain the lengthy cold snaps in the Northeast. The real story is how persistent the pattern has been. It's been this way nearly continually since December 2013 ... warm in the west, cold in the east, Jennifer Francis, Rutgers climate scientist, said in an article in*Rutgers Today*. We think with the warming Arctic these types of very wavy patterns, although probably not in the same locations, will happen more often in the future. The study http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/10/1/014005/article was published in *IOPscience* (Kurt Bresswein, Lehigh Valley *Express-Times* http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2015/02/frigid_northeast_linked_to_war.html, Feb. 19). *-- MV* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
I have one and it's great! Dan basking in 70s with open doors/windows On Feb 23, 2015, at 6:12 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 23/02/2015 4:49 PM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes wrote: Hmm. My house consumed 500 gallons of heating oil in one month with the thermostat set at 57 degrees. I just spent $600 to have ice dams removed from my roof but they were so thick that they are now only 1 foot thick at the eaves. I'm not liking this winter and I'm furthermore starting to believe that global warming is one big giant hoax. And BTW, the summers are not getting any hotter. YOU sir, need a winter home in Florida! RB (who also needs one of those) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
I was never a big fan of Florida, but after visiting Amelia Island concours D'elegance last spring, and getting subjected to this bullshit winter, I'm starting to like it. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 23, 2015, at 6:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I have one and it's great! Dan basking in 70s with open doors/windows On Feb 23, 2015, at 6:12 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 23/02/2015 4:49 PM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes wrote: Hmm. My house consumed 500 gallons of heating oil in one month with the thermostat set at 57 degrees. I just spent $600 to have ice dams removed from my roof but they were so thick that they are now only 1 foot thick at the eaves. I'm not liking this winter and I'm furthermore starting to believe that global warming is one big giant hoax. And BTW, the summers are not getting any hotter. YOU sir, need a winter home in Florida! RB (who also needs one of those) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT Global warming (aka climate change), linked to frigid winter
The part of Florida I live in (Tampa) is amazingly temperate considering the climate. From October to April our daytime temperatures are typically in the law 70s with low humidity. From May through September it's hot, topping out in the low 90s with moderate humidity. One of the things people don't understand is that it doesn't get Arizona hot here - a 95 degree day would be unusual. Yes, it's humid in the summer, but I will say that's it's not the soaking wet pour me into a bucket humid like it is in the Midwest. We have a nice Gulf breeze that blows most days which tempers the humidity a great deal. I do miss four distinct seasons, especially fall, but not enough that I would ever consider returning north of the Mason-Dixon Line. Or the Florida state line, for that matter. Dan On Feb 23, 2015, at 6:22 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I was never a big fan of Florida, but after visiting Amelia Island concours D'elegance last spring, and getting subjected to this bullshit winter, I'm starting to like it. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 23, 2015, at 6:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I have one and it's great! Dan basking in 70s with open doors/windows On Feb 23, 2015, at 6:12 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 23/02/2015 4:49 PM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes wrote: Hmm. My house consumed 500 gallons of heating oil in one month with the thermostat set at 57 degrees. I just spent $600 to have ice dams removed from my roof but they were so thick that they are now only 1 foot thick at the eaves. I'm not liking this winter and I'm furthermore starting to believe that global warming is one big giant hoax. And BTW, the summers are not getting any hotter. YOU sir, need a winter home in Florida! RB (who also needs one of those) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
