Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
There for a moment I thought Marshall had hacked Hurst's email account. Scary thought -- Cartman is the victim of identity theft and Mr. Garrison (minus the sex change stuff) is the perpetrator. D. On 12/7/06, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: your analysis is spot on here as far as i can see. -- Most men want to spend time in the garage. As for me, I'd much rather be in the kitchen -- cooking, not eating.
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
i'm just pissed off i don't get paid for it i'm as much a freak and cripple as the next guy. where MY money?? On 12/7/06, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: your analysis is spot on here as far as i can see. is there such a thing as a canadien intelligence service for you to sign up with or are you just forever stuck giving out welfare checks to drug addicts and the malformed? WHAT?? Hursty is dissing his malformed brethren? Jeff Zedic Toronto Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) check it out ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
I would've thought yu made enough by being the model for Pizza the Hut in Spaceballs guess Mel Brooks is cutting corners again to save money? Jeff Zedic Soon to be leaving Toronto
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
y'know, after taxes and paying my agent and the ex wife, it just doesn't go very far! On 12/7/06, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would've thought yu made enough by being the model for Pizza the Hut in Spaceballs guess Mel Brooks is cutting corners again to save money? Jeff Zedic Soon to be leaving Toronto ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
You have an agent? On 12/7/06, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: y'know, after taxes and paying my agent and the ex wife, it just doesn't go very far! On 12/7/06, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would've thought yu made enough by being the model for Pizza the Hut in Spaceballs guess Mel Brooks is cutting corners again to save money? Jeff Zedic Soon to be leaving Toronto ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Most men want to spend time in the garage. As for me, I'd much rather be in the kitchen -- cooking, not eating.
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
well, yeah, you can't be in the movies without an agent. dope! On 12/7/06, LT Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have an agent? On 12/7/06, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: y'know, after taxes and paying my agent and the ex wife, it just doesn't go very far! On 12/7/06, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would've thought yu made enough by being the model for Pizza the Hut in Spaceballs guess Mel Brooks is cutting corners again to save money? Jeff Zedic Soon to be leaving Toronto ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Most men want to spend time in the garage. As for me, I'd much rather be in the kitchen -- cooking, not eating. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
Have you filed a claim for SSDI or SSI? On 12/7/06, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i'm just pissed off i don't get paid for it i'm as much a freak and cripple as the next guy. where MY money?? On 12/7/06, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: your analysis is spot on here as far as i can see. is there such a thing as a canadien intelligence service for you to sign up with or are you just forever stuck giving out welfare checks to drug addicts and the malformed? WHAT?? Hursty is dissing his malformed brethren? Jeff Zedic Toronto Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) check it out ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Most men want to spend time in the garage. As for me, I'd much rather be in the kitchen -- cooking, not eating.
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
Dope? I'm the dope here? On 12/7/06, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well, yeah, you can't be in the movies without an agent. dope! On 12/7/06, LT Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have an agent? On 12/7/06, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: y'know, after taxes and paying my agent and the ex wife, it just doesn't go very far! On 12/7/06, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would've thought yu made enough by being the model for Pizza the Hut in Spaceballs guess Mel Brooks is cutting corners again to save money? Jeff Zedic Soon to be leaving Toronto ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Most men want to spend time in the garage. As for me, I'd much rather be in the kitchen -- cooking, not eating. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Most men want to spend time in the garage. As for me, I'd much rather be in the kitchen -- cooking, not eating.
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
HAHAHAHAHAHA, thats what I thought too. Michael Hall wrote: On 12/7/06, Steve MacSween [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: he is quite an authority on Iacocca-ero Mopars and vintage Volvos. Iacocca-era Mopars? Like the Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon, or the K-Car's? Am I missing something - who would WANT to be an expert on those? Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, (2x) 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
yeah, you're a government worker or something. tell me how i get this stuff? On 12/7/06, LT Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you filed a claim for SSDI or SSI? On 12/7/06, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i'm just pissed off i don't get paid for it i'm as much a freak and cripple as the next guy. where MY money?? On 12/7/06, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: your analysis is spot on here as far as i can see. is there such a thing as a canadien intelligence service for you to sign up with or are you just forever stuck giving out welfare checks to drug addicts and the malformed? WHAT?? Hursty is dissing his malformed brethren? Jeff Zedic Toronto Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) check it out ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Most men want to spend time in the garage. As for me, I'd much rather be in the kitchen -- cooking, not eating. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
My brother-in-law told his coworkers that his parole officer, who visited him frequently at work, was his agent. Is your agent like that? Bob R - Original Message - From: Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern well, yeah, you can't be in the movies without an agent. dope! On 12/7/06, LT Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have an agent? On 12/7/06, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: y'know, after taxes and paying my agent and the ex wife, it just doesn't go very far! On 12/7/06, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would've thought yu made enough by being the model for Pizza the Hut in Spaceballs guess Mel Brooks is cutting corners again to save money? Jeff Zedic Soon to be leaving Toronto ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Most men want to spend time in the garage. As for me, I'd much rather be in the kitchen -- cooking, not eating. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
on 12/7/06 5:59 PM, Michael Hall at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: he is quite an authority on Iacocca-ero Mopars and vintage Volvos. Iacocca-era Mopars? Like the Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon, or the K-Car's? Am I missing something - who would WANT to be an expert on those? Google Dodge Spirit R/T. Relatively unknown Taurus SHO killer, made only for two years and in small numbers. Special turbocharger setup and reworked head by Lotus, suspension by Carroll Shelby. Velly nice kah. Okay, that's the high-end supermarket ice cream store flavour. Stern has the Ben Jerry's one, an actual Mexican Highway Patrol version that was way beyond the R/T. The cops loved them better than anything before or since. Rare as geese in Nevada. Maybe only two or three in the U.S. (technically not legal). If that bores you, Google the videos of slightly massaged Plymouth Voyager Turbos beating everything else into the ground at drag strips. Though Chrysler turned out some pretty sad stuff back then, there were small glimmers of hope here and there. Actually I currently own a '94 Dodge Grand Caravan beater that I acquired for the princely sum of $300 and whose virtues I will defend against all who want to step up to the plate. For what it is, I think it's PDG. Mac Closet Mopar Guy since the 1970s (loved them Gran Furys)
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
I'm perfectly willing to cede that territory to you. You've earned it. Poor sod On 12/7/06, Steve MacSween [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually I currently own a '94 Dodge Grand Caravan beater that I acquired for the princely sum of $300 and whose virtues I will defend against all who want to step up to the plate. Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler/propane #22 0-60mph 7.3sec (220k) '84 300D (218k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
On 12/8/06, Steve MacSween [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/7/06 5:59 PM, Michael Hall at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: he is quite an authority on Iacocca-ero Mopars and vintage Volvos. Iacocca-era Mopars? Like the Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon, or the K-Car's? Am I missing something - who would WANT to be an expert on those? Google Dodge Spirit R/T. Again, who would want to be an authority on Dodge Sprints, turbo or not? Relatively unknown Taurus SHO killer, made only for two years and in small numbers. Special turbocharger setup and reworked head by Lotus, suspension by Carroll Shelby. Velly nice kah. Okay, that's the high-end supermarket ice cream store flavour. Stern has the Ben Jerry's one, an actual Mexican Highway Patrol version that was way beyond the R/T. The cops loved them better than anything before or since. Rare as geese in Nevada. Maybe only two or three in the U.S. (technically not legal). No way - not a REAL MEXICAN HIGHWAY PATROL CAR! If that bores you, Google the videos of slightly massaged Plymouth Voyager Turbos beating everything else into the ground at drag strips. Yawn, still bored of 80's Chrysler products. Though Chrysler turned out some pretty sad stuff back then, there were small glimmers of hope here and there. Actually I currently own a '94 Dodge Grand Caravan beater that I acquired for the princely sum of $300 and whose virtues I will defend against all who want to step up to the plate. For what it is, I think it's PDG. Congrats - I bet the women go crazy when you pull into the daycare and you can fit 6 car seats. I can argue the merits of my 300CD all day too, but at the end of the day, its just a solid old car. Mac Closet Mopar Guy since the 1970s (loved them Gran Furys) Nothing against Mopar or Chrysler, but the 80's were sad - might have been profitable, but I mean, come on... Mike
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
Actually I currently own a '94 Dodge Grand Caravan beater that I acquired for the princely sum of $300 and whose virtues I will defend against all who want to step up to the plate. For what it is, I think it's PDG. Is it three times the car as my Frankenheap? I don't think so. :-) -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
hey, i drove a K car for seven years, so i know the drill On 12/8/06, Steve MacSween [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/7/06 5:59 PM, Michael Hall at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: he is quite an authority on Iacocca-ero Mopars and vintage Volvos. Iacocca-era Mopars? Like the Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon, or the K-Car's? Am I missing something - who would WANT to be an expert on those? Google Dodge Spirit R/T. Relatively unknown Taurus SHO killer, made only for two years and in small numbers. Special turbocharger setup and reworked head by Lotus, suspension by Carroll Shelby. Velly nice kah. Okay, that's the high-end supermarket ice cream store flavour. Stern has the Ben Jerry's one, an actual Mexican Highway Patrol version that was way beyond the R/T. The cops loved them better than anything before or since. Rare as geese in Nevada. Maybe only two or three in the U.S. (technically not legal). If that bores you, Google the videos of slightly massaged Plymouth Voyager Turbos beating everything else into the ground at drag strips. Though Chrysler turned out some pretty sad stuff back then, there were small glimmers of hope here and there. Actually I currently own a '94 Dodge Grand Caravan beater that I acquired for the princely sum of $300 and whose virtues I will defend against all who want to step up to the plate. For what it is, I think it's PDG. Mac Closet Mopar Guy since the 1970s (loved them Gran Furys) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
INFIDEL!!! On 12/8/06, Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/8/06, Steve MacSween [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/7/06 5:59 PM, Michael Hall at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: he is quite an authority on Iacocca-ero Mopars and vintage Volvos. Iacocca-era Mopars? Like the Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon, or the K-Car's? Am I missing something - who would WANT to be an expert on those? Google Dodge Spirit R/T. Again, who would want to be an authority on Dodge Sprints, turbo or not? Relatively unknown Taurus SHO killer, made only for two years and in small numbers. Special turbocharger setup and reworked head by Lotus, suspension by Carroll Shelby. Velly nice kah. Okay, that's the high-end supermarket ice cream store flavour. Stern has the Ben Jerry's one, an actual Mexican Highway Patrol version that was way beyond the R/T. The cops loved them better than anything before or since. Rare as geese in Nevada. Maybe only two or three in the U.S. (technically not legal). No way - not a REAL MEXICAN HIGHWAY PATROL CAR! If that bores you, Google the videos of slightly massaged Plymouth Voyager Turbos beating everything else into the ground at drag strips. Yawn, still bored of 80's Chrysler products. Though Chrysler turned out some pretty sad stuff back then, there were small glimmers of hope here and there. Actually I currently own a '94 Dodge Grand Caravan beater that I acquired for the princely sum of $300 and whose virtues I will defend against all who want to step up to the plate. For what it is, I think it's PDG. Congrats - I bet the women go crazy when you pull into the daycare and you can fit 6 car seats. I can argue the merits of my 300CD all day too, but at the end of the day, its just a solid old car. Mac Closet Mopar Guy since the 1970s (loved them Gran Furys) Nothing against Mopar or Chrysler, but the 80's were sad - might have been profitable, but I mean, come on... Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
Michael Hall wrote: On 12/7/06, Steve MacSween [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: he is quite an authority on Iacocca-ero Mopars and vintage Volvos. Iacocca-era Mopars? Like the Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon, or the K-Car's? Am I missing something - who would WANT to be an expert on those? Three words: Dodge Omni GLHS
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
David Brodbeck wrote: Three words: Dodge Omni GLHS Never had the 224hp 16v engine from the factory, but I've heard of conversions. How about Dodge Spirit R/T (already mentioned), Chrysler Maserati TC(which the 16v was first built for) or Consulier GTP?
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
Someone is definitely going to Hell for posting something like that. On 12/6/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a post from the Ritter list taking His Eminence to task. Question is, will it be Ritter or VanCleef that kicks the poster off? -- Most men want to spend time in the garage. As for me, I'd much rather be in the kitchen -- cooking, not eating.
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
Funnily enough in my experience Stu is actually not that worried about personal criticism, well that was years ago, he may well have become a little sensitive. - Original Message - From: LT Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern Someone is definitely going to Hell for posting something like that. On 12/6/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a post from the Ritter list taking His Eminence to task. Question is, will it be Ritter or VanCleef that kicks the poster off?
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
hahaha, thats funny. Has stu responded yet? I have got behind reading that list, or skimming thru rather. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a post from the Ritter list taking His Eminence to task. Question is, will it be Ritter or VanCleef that kicks the poster off? -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, (2x) 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
It's posts like this that keeps me going back to Daniel Stern for my high-end automotive lighting needs. When it comes to automotive lighting, I'm not sure there are many with his depth of knowledge and willingness to share it. J.B. At 10:45 PM 12/6/2006, you wrote: Here's a post from the Ritter list taking His Eminence to task. Question is, will it be Ritter or VanCleef that kicks the poster off? Message: 10 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 12:29:30 -0600 From: Gerry Visel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MB] Automotive Lighting Query I received the following from Daniel Stern after asking him about the recent lighting questions on the list here. For what it's worth, I'd rather see a few sparks fly here than on the road! Gerry -- Forwarded message -- From: Daniel Stern Lighting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Dec 6, 2006 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [Fwd: Re: Automotive Lighting Query] To: Gerry Visel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, GV. Numerous times in the past, Stu has advocated wiring up H4 headlamps such that the high and low beam filaments can be burned at the same time. See for example http://www.mbca.org/pages/Star/articles/w124.htm . If I am not mistaken, this same advice is contained in his W124 bible, and he has repeated it widely in various discussion forums. ... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.14/578 - Release Date: 12/7/2006 1:27 AM
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
i look at from a slightly different perspective. how can a poof know so much about lightbulbs? On 12/6/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a post from the Ritter list taking His Eminence to task. Question is, will it be Ritter or VanCleef that kicks the poster off? Message: 10 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 12:29:30 -0600 From: Gerry Visel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MB] Automotive Lighting Query I received the following from Daniel Stern after asking him about the recent lighting questions on the list here. For what it's worth, I'd rather see a few sparks fly here than on the road! Gerry -- Forwarded message -- From: Daniel Stern Lighting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Dec 6, 2006 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [Fwd: Re: Automotive Lighting Query] To: Gerry Visel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, GV. Numerous times in the past, Stu has advocated wiring up H4 headlamps such that the high and low beam filaments can be burned at the same time. See for example http://www.mbca.org/pages/Star/articles/w124.htm . If I am not mistaken, this same advice is contained in his W124 bible, and he has repeated it widely in various discussion forums. It is bad and improper advice for the following reason: Two-filament headlight bulbs are pressurized to over 12 atmospheres *when cold*. Basic laws of chemistry (PV=nRT) tell us that with no escape, the gas pressure inside the bulb will skyrocket with increasing temperature. These bulbs are not designed to handle the heat, or the current load on the common filament support lead, of running both filaments at the same time for more than very brief periods during beam changeover or headlight flashing. Doing so carries the very real risk of the bulb grenading inside the headlamp, destroying the lens and reflector with hot, sharp shrapnel. Some people who think they're clever wire it up this way anyhow, and the Brite Box people have made a business out of this clever (not) modification. Running the lows with the highs can only be done safely if the two functions are produced by separate single-filament bulbs. Very occasionally, even a reputable maker will produce a bulb with a defect in its glass or quartz envelope, and such bulbs can explode at random while in service. Or, if significant liquid water enters the headlamp (as for example via a faulty seal or cracked lens), and splashes on the hot bulb, the bulb glass can and often will shatter. But, wiring up the low + high filament to run at the same time in a 2-filament bulb of any wattage rating is begging for bulb explosions. This has been explained to Stu often; each time he has dismissed the explanation, insisted there's no problem, and carried on refusing to make the connection between his improper wiring and his bulb-explosion problem. There is another very good reason not to run the lows and/or fogs together with the highs in an H4 system: It doesn't help you see better. The low beam and fog beam direct their light primarily downward (fog lamps) or downward/rightward (low beams in right-traffic countries). High beams direct their light primarily straight ahead. The brighter the foreground light, the more the driver's pupils constrict, with a resultant significant decrease in distance vision. There are headlamp systems (w/multiple single-function beams, not 2-filament) that *rely* on the low beam being lit when the high beam is on; in these systems the low beam provides the width and fill, while the high beam produces the distance reach. But, there are also headlamp systems in which the high beams are designed to produce the width, fill, and reach all by themselves, and increasing foreground illumination by means of the low and/or fog beams just spoils distance vision as described above and at http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html . Indiscriminately adding more and more and more light by miswiring the various forward illumination functions usually does not genuinely improve the safety performance of the lights or the driver's real ability to see what he needs to see. The same goes for just picking the highest-wattage bulbs available. It's not necessarily the way to optimize lighting performance. As wattage increases, the size of the filament necessarily increases, both in length and in diameter. This has a strongly negative effect on beam focus -- the more closely the filament approximates a point source of light, the better the beam focus, and the greater the size of the filament the poorer the beam focus. Effective seeing distance plummets. At the same time, foreground light goes to nuclear levels, which does two things at the same time: 1) It fools you into thinking you've got excellent lighting. We humans are very poor subjective judges of our visual performance; it's very easy to create situations in which we think/feel we can see much better (or much worse) than we actually can. And the number-one way to cause a subjective impression of good lighting is to
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
No. Chris K Cayce, SC hahaha, thats funny. Has stu responded yet? I have got behind reading that list, or skimming thru rather.
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
Stern is becoming mainstream in his old age. Back in the day, he got kicked off just about every automotive list on the Net for abusing anyone who dared question him on anything. Beyond lighting, he is quite an authority on Iacocca-ero Mopars and vintage Volvos. If you dare lock horns with him, besides knowing your stuff you had better have a rhino-thick skin and an extensive and highly colorful vocabulary. My instinct is that Stu will duck this one, as he has in the past proven he has neither. Mac on 12/6/06 10:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a post from the Ritter list taking His Eminence to task. Question is, will it be Ritter or VanCleef that kicks the poster off? Message: 10 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 12:29:30 -0600 From: Gerry Visel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MB] Automotive Lighting Query I received the following from Daniel Stern after asking him about the recent lighting questions on the list here. For what it's worth, I'd rather see a few sparks fly here than on the road! Gerry -- Forwarded message -- From: Daniel Stern Lighting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Dec 6, 2006 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [Fwd: Re: Automotive Lighting Query] To: Gerry Visel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, GV. Numerous times in the past, Stu has advocated wiring up H4 headlamps such that the high and low beam filaments can be burned at the same time. See for example http://www.mbca.org/pages/Star/articles/w124.htm . If I am not mistaken, this same advice is contained in his W124 bible, and he has repeated it widely in various discussion forums. It is bad and improper advice for the following reason: Two-filament headlight bulbs are pressurized to over 12 atmospheres *when cold*. Basic laws of chemistry (PV=nRT) tell us that with no escape, the gas pressure inside the bulb will skyrocket with increasing temperature. These bulbs are not designed to handle the heat, or the current load on the common filament support lead, of running both filaments at the same time for more than very brief periods during beam changeover or headlight flashing. Doing so carries the very real risk of the bulb grenading inside the headlamp, destroying the lens and reflector with hot, sharp shrapnel. Some people who think they're clever wire it up this way anyhow, and the Brite Box people have made a business out of this clever (not) modification. Running the lows with the highs can only be done safely if the two functions are produced by separate single-filament bulbs. Very occasionally, even a reputable maker will produce a bulb with a defect in its glass or quartz envelope, and such bulbs can explode at random while in service. Or, if significant liquid water enters the headlamp (as for example via a faulty seal or cracked lens), and splashes on the hot bulb, the bulb glass can and often will shatter. But, wiring up the low + high filament to run at the same time in a 2-filament bulb of any wattage rating is begging for bulb explosions. This has been explained to Stu often; each time he has dismissed the explanation, insisted there's no problem, and carried on refusing to make the connection between his improper wiring and his bulb-explosion problem. There is another very good reason not to run the lows and/or fogs together with the highs in an H4 system: It doesn't help you see better. The low beam and fog beam direct their light primarily downward (fog lamps) or downward/rightward (low beams in right-traffic countries). High beams direct their light primarily straight ahead. The brighter the foreground light, the more the driver's pupils constrict, with a resultant significant decrease in distance vision. There are headlamp systems (w/multiple single-function beams, not 2-filament) that *rely* on the low beam being lit when the high beam is on; in these systems the low beam provides the width and fill, while the high beam produces the distance reach. But, there are also headlamp systems in which the high beams are designed to produce the width, fill, and reach all by themselves, and increasing foreground illumination by means of the low and/or fog beams just spoils distance vision as described above and at http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html . Indiscriminately adding more and more and more light by miswiring the various forward illumination functions usually does not genuinely improve the safety performance of the lights or the driver's real ability to see what he needs to see. The same goes for just picking the highest-wattage bulbs available. It's not necessarily the way to optimize lighting performance. As wattage increases, the size of the filament necessarily increases, both in length and in diameter. This has a strongly negative effect on beam focus -- the more closely the filament approximates a point source of light, the better the beam focus, and the greater the size of
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
On 12/7/06, Steve MacSween [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: he is quite an authority on Iacocca-ero Mopars and vintage Volvos. Iacocca-era Mopars? Like the Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon, or the K-Car's? Am I missing something - who would WANT to be an expert on those? Mike
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
i've always liked stern. he's a handful and knows a ton of stuff. it's like wrestling a bear. I rather enjoy it even though i never get the best of him. stu is a different kind of cat. he works authoritarian. he is no match for stern in a battle of wits. he will either run or denounce stern to the revolution, but he doesn't have the stuff to go wrestle the bear. your analysis is spot on here as far as i can see. is there such a thing as a canadien intelligence service for you to sign up with or are you just forever stuck giving out welfare checks to drug addicts and the malformed? On 12/7/06, Steve MacSween [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stern is becoming mainstream in his old age. Back in the day, he got kicked off just about every automotive list on the Net for abusing anyone who dared question him on anything. Beyond lighting, he is quite an authority on Iacocca-ero Mopars and vintage Volvos. If you dare lock horns with him, besides knowing your stuff you had better have a rhino-thick skin and an extensive and highly colorful vocabulary. My instinct is that Stu will duck this one, as he has in the past proven he has neither. Mac on 12/6/06 10:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a post from the Ritter list taking His Eminence to task. Question is, will it be Ritter or VanCleef that kicks the poster off? Message: 10 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 12:29:30 -0600 From: Gerry Visel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MB] Automotive Lighting Query I received the following from Daniel Stern after asking him about the recent lighting questions on the list here. For what it's worth, I'd rather see a few sparks fly here than on the road! Gerry -- Forwarded message -- From: Daniel Stern Lighting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Dec 6, 2006 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [Fwd: Re: Automotive Lighting Query] To: Gerry Visel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, GV. Numerous times in the past, Stu has advocated wiring up H4 headlamps such that the high and low beam filaments can be burned at the same time. See for example http://www.mbca.org/pages/Star/articles/w124.htm . If I am not mistaken, this same advice is contained in his W124 bible, and he has repeated it widely in various discussion forums. It is bad and improper advice for the following reason: Two-filament headlight bulbs are pressurized to over 12 atmospheres *when cold*. Basic laws of chemistry (PV=nRT) tell us that with no escape, the gas pressure inside the bulb will skyrocket with increasing temperature. These bulbs are not designed to handle the heat, or the current load on the common filament support lead, of running both filaments at the same time for more than very brief periods during beam changeover or headlight flashing. Doing so carries the very real risk of the bulb grenading inside the headlamp, destroying the lens and reflector with hot, sharp shrapnel. Some people who think they're clever wire it up this way anyhow, and the Brite Box people have made a business out of this clever (not) modification. Running the lows with the highs can only be done safely if the two functions are produced by separate single-filament bulbs. Very occasionally, even a reputable maker will produce a bulb with a defect in its glass or quartz envelope, and such bulbs can explode at random while in service. Or, if significant liquid water enters the headlamp (as for example via a faulty seal or cracked lens), and splashes on the hot bulb, the bulb glass can and often will shatter. But, wiring up the low + high filament to run at the same time in a 2-filament bulb of any wattage rating is begging for bulb explosions. This has been explained to Stu often; each time he has dismissed the explanation, insisted there's no problem, and carried on refusing to make the connection between his improper wiring and his bulb-explosion problem. There is another very good reason not to run the lows and/or fogs together with the highs in an H4 system: It doesn't help you see better. The low beam and fog beam direct their light primarily downward (fog lamps) or downward/rightward (low beams in right-traffic countries). High beams direct their light primarily straight ahead. The brighter the foreground light, the more the driver's pupils constrict, with a resultant significant decrease in distance vision. There are headlamp systems (w/multiple single-function beams, not 2-filament) that *rely* on the low beam being lit when the high beam is on; in these systems the low beam provides the width and fill, while the high beam produces the distance reach. But, there are also headlamp systems in which the high beams are designed to produce the width, fill, and reach all by themselves, and increasing foreground illumination by means of the low and/or fog beams just spoils distance vision as described above and at http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html . Indiscriminately adding
Re: [MBZ] Ritter vs Stern
your analysis is spot on here as far as i can see. is there such a thing as a canadien intelligence service for you to sign up with or are you just forever stuck giving out welfare checks to drug addicts and the malformed? WHAT?? Hursty is dissing his malformed brethren? Jeff Zedic Toronto Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) check it out
