Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure - Problem found
J.B. Hebert wrote: After many weeks and a few red herrings, we finally tracked down the oil pressure issue plaguing my '95 E300D. Checking through MB's tech bulletins, I thought I had nailed it. On the 606 motors (and probably others) the camshafts are hollow and oil runs down them. There is a freeze plug at either end of the camshaft. According to MB, these freeze plugs can fail and become dislodged. When this happens, all the oil gets pumped up into the valve cover and the low oil light comes on, followed by loss of oil pressure. Since this sounded like my symptoms, we tore down the top of the motor and pulled the valve cover (a time-intensive job on a 606). Sadly, when the camshafts where checked, it was confirmed that all freeze plugs were in place and not leaking. The next step was to check the pan. Instead of dropping the pan, we removed the oil cooler from the side of the pan (which required draining the oil and the coolant, since it is an oil to water heat exchanger). Once removed, the issue quickly became obvious. The screw plug that retains the oil pressure relief valve to the oil pump had backed out to the point where only one or two threads kept it from dropping into the pan. This effectively removed any preload on the oil pressure relief valve spring and put it into bypass mode. Since neither the oil pump nor the oil pressure relief valve had ever been replaced or removed on this vehicle, I am at a loss as to how it would have backed out. It was re-torqued to 50 Nm, the vehicle was reassembled, and we manually primed the lubrication system through the pressure sender fitting to make sure all bearings had oil. The engine was restarted and oil pressure immediately returned. Now, I realize that my particular vehicle tends to exhibit problems that by themselves are unusual and rare and in combination almost inconceivably unlikely, but if this happened to me it could happen to someone else. If you happen to have the oil pan off your 606 motor (other 60x might be similar), you might want to re-torque the oil pressure relief valve screw plug while you're in there. If you happen to loose oil pressure, this might be something you want to check. 18-5031HA in the service manual covers the installation and removal of the oil pressure relief valve. A small number (tiny fraction of 1 percent) of oil overpressure valves have failed over the years as long as I've been following Mercedes engines (since the '50s). Some unscrew (as your's did) some get something stuck in them and a few simply break (usually the spring fails). In early OM603.96 engines a very few oil pumps simply loosened and tried to fall off! Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure - Problem found
Glad to hear it was a simple repair although pretty laborious to get to. I feared the worst (damaged bearings) and am happy to hear I was wrong! On the plus side, you learned a great deal about your Mercedes. Thanks for keeping us informed. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: J.B. Hebert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure - Problem found After many weeks and a few red herrings, we finally tracked down the oil pressure issue plaguing my '95 E300D. Checking through MB's tech bulletins, I thought I had nailed it. On the 606 motors (and probably others) the camshafts are hollow and oil runs down them. There is a freeze plug at either end of the camshaft. According to MB, these freeze plugs can fail and become dislodged. When this happens, all the oil gets pumped up into the valve cover and the low oil light comes on, followed by loss of oil pressure. Since this sounded like my symptoms, we tore down the top of the motor and pulled the valve cover (a time-intensive job on a 606). Sadly, when the camshafts where checked, it was confirmed that all freeze plugs were in place and not leaking. The next step was to check the pan. Instead of dropping the pan, we removed the oil cooler from the side of the pan (which required draining the oil and the coolant, since it is an oil to water heat exchanger). Once removed, the issue quickly became obvious. The screw plug that retains the oil pressure relief valve to the oil pump had backed out to the point where only one or two threads kept it from dropping into the pan. This effectively removed any preload on the oil pressure relief valve spring and put it into bypass mode. Since neither the oil pump nor the oil pressure relief valve had ever been replaced or removed on this vehicle, I am at a loss as to how it would have backed out. It was re-torqued to 50 Nm, the vehicle was reassembled, and we manually primed the lubrication system through the pressure sender fitting to make sure all bearings had oil. The engine was restarted and oil pressure immediately returned. Now, I realize that my particular vehicle tends to exhibit problems that by themselves are unusual and rare and in combination almost inconceivably unlikely, but if this happened to me it could happen to someone else. If you happen to have the oil pan off your 606 motor (other 60x might be similar), you might want to re-torque the oil pressure relief valve screw plug while you're in there. If you happen to loose oil pressure, this might be something you want to check. 18-5031HA in the service manual covers the installation and removal of the oil pressure relief valve. Regards, J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure - Problem found
Good catch J.B. and congrats. Thanks for sharing Harry Watkins Newton, MS 86 SDL Silver 85 300D Euro 86 SDL Gold 81 240D manual trans - Original Message - From: J.B. Hebert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure - Problem found After many weeks and a few red herrings, we finally tracked down the oil pressure issue plaguing my '95 E300D. Checking through MB's tech bulletins, I thought I had nailed it. On the 606 motors (and probably others) the camshafts are hollow and oil runs down them. There is a freeze plug at either end of the camshaft. According to MB, these freeze plugs can fail and become dislodged. When this happens, all the oil gets pumped up into the valve cover and the low oil light comes on, followed by loss of oil pressure. Since this sounded like my symptoms, we tore down the top of the motor and pulled the valve cover (a time-intensive job on a 606). Sadly, when the camshafts where checked, it was confirmed that all freeze plugs were in place and not leaking. The next step was to check the pan. Instead of dropping the pan, we removed the oil cooler from the side of the pan (which required draining the oil and the coolant, since it is an oil to water heat exchanger). Once removed, the issue quickly became obvious. The screw plug that retains the oil pressure relief valve to the oil pump had backed out to the point where only one or two threads kept it from dropping into the pan. This effectively removed any preload on the oil pressure relief valve spring and put it into bypass mode. Since neither the oil pump nor the oil pressure relief valve had ever been replaced or removed on this vehicle, I am at a loss as to how it would have backed out. It was re-torqued to 50 Nm, the vehicle was reassembled, and we manually primed the lubrication system through the pressure sender fitting to make sure all bearings had oil. The engine was restarted and oil pressure immediately returned. Now, I realize that my particular vehicle tends to exhibit problems that by themselves are unusual and rare and in combination almost inconceivably unlikely, but if this happened to me it could happen to someone else. If you happen to have the oil pan off your 606 motor (other 60x might be similar), you might want to re-torque the oil pressure relief valve screw plug while you're in there. If you happen to loose oil pressure, this might be something you want to check. 18-5031HA in the service manual covers the installation and removal of the oil pressure relief valve. Regards, J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
Not yet, but my bushhog is on its last legs, when it fails entirely I'll get a 3pt conversion kit and a 3pt bushhog. It'd be some nice to be able to raise the bushhog without having to get off the tractor... IH didn't go to the 3pt until the 60's I believe... -Curt Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:18:55 -0700 From: Zeitgeist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hey, does your tractor have a 3 point hitch? IIRC, Farmall was a bit late to climb on board with Harry Ferguson's universal hitch set up. [former owner of a '44 Ford 2N w/3 point hitch and a sludgy oil sump] On 6/28/06, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Clogged pickup screens are pretty common on old tractors that had been run for years with non-detergent oil, any dirt or crud that got into the engine settled into the oil pan. Common practice when switching to detergent oil is to drop the pan and scrape the crud out. Guess what I need to do on my tractor this fall? -Curt '52 Farmall Super M Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k) '84 300D (214k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG - Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat Jul 01 14:35:28 2006 Received: from web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.37]) by server8.arterytc8.net with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FwgZE-00030r-FX for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Sat, 01 Jul 2006 14:35:28 + Received: (qmail 4786 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jul 2006 14:35:20 - Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from [71.233.183.51] by web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 01 Jul 2006 07:35:20 PDT Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 07:35:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.7.cp2 Subject: Re: [MBZ] I give up on Mobil-1 X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 14:35:29 - I've never seen a Wal-Mart that didn't have gallons upon gallons of 5w30 and 10w30 but rarely do I ever see any amount of 15w50 or any other useful weight. I have a cousin that manages the sporting goods department at a Wal-Mart in Maine. He tells how when he started they were in a bad way because theres not a tremendous amount of bass fishing in Maine and bass gear is absolutely no good for trout. It apparently took him YEARS to convince home office that sending him a stack of bass stuff was only going to result in him sending most of it back but in the winter time they could send him icefishing stuff because that would move. Apparently in more recent years this has gotten to be a whole lot less of an issue. Wal-Mart is known for being the ultimate make a buck retailer so it surprises me that they would do something that foolish, but you never can tell, it could have been a regional guy or something... -Curt Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 20:53:36 -0400 From: Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] I give up on Mobil-1 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed availability depends largely on the area. see, as sick as this sounds to you, stores don't discriminate inventory based on the customer base. I worked in retail years ago at a department store with a fairly affluent clientelle. this chain also had stores with much poorer customers. as a general rule, the poor stores sold a very high percentage of $59 cookware sets and the store i was at sold every $800 cookware set within 2 days of receipt. the poor area stores couldn't sell an $800 cookware set to save their lives. consequently, we always had tons of $59 cookware sets and they always had tons of $800 sets. no one was happy! here on the north side of atlanta you simply CANNOT find the 15w50 at walmart because of the all the euro cars. basically, if anyone dunwoody or alpharetta
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
According to 18-5031HA, the oil pressure relief valve is part of the oil pump, so if I end up dropping the pan I will check it. I do not want to have to drop the pan, though... so I'm going to first hook up a mechanical gauge to be absolutely sure it isn't a gauge issue. Then I will likely remove the oil to water head exchanger on the passenger side of the sump, which should give me a decent view of the oil pump and surrounding area. Thanks, J.B. Hebert At 08:33 AM 6/29/2006, you wrote: It was mentioned earlier, but be sure to check the oil pressure regulator, sometimes also called overpressure bypass. The springs can break or the valve become jamed in its bore. Bob DuPuy Parrish, FL On 6/29/06, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry to hear it wasn;t one of the easy things (relatively) to fix that was suggested - hopefully the pump intake is only blocked and the main bearings are not damaged. Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: J.B. Hebert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure I tested the gauge and sender tonight. The gauge goes right to 3 when disconnected, and back to 0 when grounded, so it is fine. I removed the sender and made a fixture that allowed me to pressure test it. At 0 bar, it read about 7.3 ohms. At 15 PSI (around 1 bar) I got around 62 ohms. At 30 PSI, 111 ohms. At 45 PSI, I got 172 ohms. So the sender is a little low based on the manual (or maybe my gauge is off), but the sender is certainly responsive. So it looks like I'll be pulling the pan next... and I was depressed to see that it's a once piece pan, unlike my old OM617 with the 2 piece unit. That would have made it much easier. So I'll have to track down a gasket at the very least. I am now hoping that it's just a blocked pickup, but we'll see. Thanks, J.B. At 12:18 PM 6/27/2006, you wrote: On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Thanks, J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6/27/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
I think there is also one in the filter housing so it can bypass if the filter plugs. Bob DuPuy On 6/30/06, J.B. Hebert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to 18-5031HA, the oil pressure relief valve is part of the oil pump, so if I end up dropping the pan I will check it. I do not want to have to drop the pan, though... so I'm going to first hook up a mechanical gauge to be absolutely sure it isn't a gauge issue. Then I will likely remove the oil to water head exchanger on the passenger side of the sump, which should give me a decent view of the oil pump and surrounding area. Thanks, J.B. Hebert At 08:33 AM 6/29/2006, you wrote: It was mentioned earlier, but be sure to check the oil pressure regulator, sometimes also called overpressure bypass. The springs can break or the valve become jamed in its bore. Bob DuPuy Parrish, FL On 6/29/06, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry to hear it wasn;t one of the easy things (relatively) to fix that was suggested - hopefully the pump intake is only blocked and the main bearings are not damaged. Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: J.B. Hebert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure I tested the gauge and sender tonight. The gauge goes right to 3 when disconnected, and back to 0 when grounded, so it is fine. I removed the sender and made a fixture that allowed me to pressure test it. At 0 bar, it read about 7.3 ohms. At 15 PSI (around 1 bar) I got around 62 ohms. At 30 PSI, 111 ohms. At 45 PSI, I got 172 ohms. So the sender is a little low based on the manual (or maybe my gauge is off), but the sender is certainly responsive. So it looks like I'll be pulling the pan next... and I was depressed to see that it's a once piece pan, unlike my old OM617 with the 2 piece unit. That would have made it much easier. So I'll have to track down a gasket at the very least. I am now hoping that it's just a blocked pickup, but we'll see. Thanks, J.B. At 12:18 PM 6/27/2006, you wrote: On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Thanks, J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
Hey, does your tractor have a 3 point hitch? IIRC, Farmall was a bit late to climb on board with Harry Ferguson's universal hitch set up. [former owner of a '44 Ford 2N w/3 point hitch and a sludgy oil sump] On 6/28/06, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Clogged pickup screens are pretty common on old tractors that had been run for years with non-detergent oil, any dirt or crud that got into the engine settled into the oil pan. Common practice when switching to detergent oil is to drop the pan and scrape the crud out. Guess what I need to do on my tractor this fall? -Curt '52 Farmall Super M Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k) '84 300D (214k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
J.B. Hebert wrote: I have not detected any loss of oil anywhere, including into the coolant or bellhousing, so I have to think that it is not a galley plug. Dad's 360 Ford returned it to the sump when he lost a galley plug. No oil pressure, plenty of perfectly good oil in the sump, clattering lifters was the main symptom. Let's hope yours is just a bad reading instead of low pressure. Oh, I thought of another way to kill oil pressure. Loosen the bolts on a cam bearing tower so the oil comes out between the tower and the head. Mitch.
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
I tested the gauge and sender tonight. The gauge goes right to 3 when disconnected, and back to 0 when grounded, so it is fine. I removed the sender and made a fixture that allowed me to pressure test it. At 0 bar, it read about 7.3 ohms. At 15 PSI (around 1 bar) I got around 62 ohms. At 30 PSI, 111 ohms. At 45 PSI, I got 172 ohms. So the sender is a little low based on the manual (or maybe my gauge is off), but the sender is certainly responsive. So it looks like I'll be pulling the pan next... and I was depressed to see that it's a once piece pan, unlike my old OM617 with the 2 piece unit. That would have made it much easier. So I'll have to track down a gasket at the very least. I am now hoping that it's just a blocked pickup, but we'll see. Thanks, J.B. At 12:18 PM 6/27/2006, you wrote: On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Thanks, J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6/27/2006
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
You're full of good news. :) I'm thinking that the MB galley plugs are threaded, so they are unlikely to come out? I guess anything is possible. J.B. At 07:14 PM 6/28/2006, you wrote: J.B. Hebert wrote: I have not detected any loss of oil anywhere, including into the coolant or bellhousing, so I have to think that it is not a galley plug. Dad's 360 Ford returned it to the sump when he lost a galley plug. No oil pressure, plenty of perfectly good oil in the sump, clattering lifters was the main symptom. Let's hope yours is just a bad reading instead of low pressure. Oh, I thought of another way to kill oil pressure. Loosen the bolts on a cam bearing tower so the oil comes out between the tower and the head. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6/27/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6/27/2006
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
Sorry to hear it wasn;t one of the easy things (relatively) to fix that was suggested - hopefully the pump intake is only blocked and the main bearings are not damaged. Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: J.B. Hebert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure I tested the gauge and sender tonight. The gauge goes right to 3 when disconnected, and back to 0 when grounded, so it is fine. I removed the sender and made a fixture that allowed me to pressure test it. At 0 bar, it read about 7.3 ohms. At 15 PSI (around 1 bar) I got around 62 ohms. At 30 PSI, 111 ohms. At 45 PSI, I got 172 ohms. So the sender is a little low based on the manual (or maybe my gauge is off), but the sender is certainly responsive. So it looks like I'll be pulling the pan next... and I was depressed to see that it's a once piece pan, unlike my old OM617 with the 2 piece unit. That would have made it much easier. So I'll have to track down a gasket at the very least. I am now hoping that it's just a blocked pickup, but we'll see. Thanks, J.B. At 12:18 PM 6/27/2006, you wrote: On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Thanks, J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6/27/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
It was mentioned earlier, but be sure to check the oil pressure regulator, sometimes also called overpressure bypass. The springs can break or the valve become jamed in its bore. Bob DuPuy Parrish, FL On 6/29/06, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry to hear it wasn;t one of the easy things (relatively) to fix that was suggested - hopefully the pump intake is only blocked and the main bearings are not damaged. Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: J.B. Hebert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure I tested the gauge and sender tonight. The gauge goes right to 3 when disconnected, and back to 0 when grounded, so it is fine. I removed the sender and made a fixture that allowed me to pressure test it. At 0 bar, it read about 7.3 ohms. At 15 PSI (around 1 bar) I got around 62 ohms. At 30 PSI, 111 ohms. At 45 PSI, I got 172 ohms. So the sender is a little low based on the manual (or maybe my gauge is off), but the sender is certainly responsive. So it looks like I'll be pulling the pan next... and I was depressed to see that it's a once piece pan, unlike my old OM617 with the 2 piece unit. That would have made it much easier. So I'll have to track down a gasket at the very least. I am now hoping that it's just a blocked pickup, but we'll see. Thanks, J.B. At 12:18 PM 6/27/2006, you wrote: On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Thanks, J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6/27/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
Got home late tonight, so I didn't have time to put it up on ramps and check the sender and gauge. However, I did pull the new filter out and it was, unfortunately, fine. The stem O-rings were intact and pliable, and the top and bottom filter gaskets were in place. The oil canister was clean and free of any obvious blockage or other issues. I will check the gauge tomorrow. Does anyone know what size the oil sender thread is in case I have to try another gauge? I'd like to have everything I need to hook it up. Thanks, J.B. At 12:18 PM 6/27/2006, you wrote: On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Thanks, J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
What car are we talking about here? J.B. Hebert wrote: On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Thanks, J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 420SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 73 280SEL 4.5, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
could be a sending unit problem J.B. Hebert wrote: Grrr... totally forgot to mention the car is a '95 E300D with 214,000 miles running on M1 5W40. At 12:18 PM 6/27/2006, you wrote: On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Thanks, J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 420SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 73 280SEL 4.5, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
I forgot, is this the E300? Do those things have piston cooling jets? Seems like 1995 was not a turbo year. If a cooling jet fell off, I wonder how much oil pressure would escape from the hole? Another possibility (on any engine) is loss of an oil galley plug. Happened to my Dad's 1973 Ford P/U, he left it idling for half an hour and when he returned it was making an awful clatter. He paid $$ hundreds in labor to replace a $3 part. Ford was not interested in a policy adjustment for an engine defect on a six year old truck. Dad hasn't bought a Ford since, and never will. I was amazed the engine still seemed to run normally after that. Mitch.
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
The '95 E300D (OM606). At 09:51 PM 6/27/2006, you wrote: What car are we talking about here? J.B. Hebert wrote: On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Thanks, J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 420SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 73 280SEL 4.5, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
This is the E300. It is non-turbo, but does still have the piston cooling jets. However, I do not know as they can fall off. I think they are just a specific sized hole drilled in existing material, but I may be wrong. I have not detected any loss of oil anywhere, including into the coolant or bellhousing, so I have to think that it is not a galley plug. Thanks, J.B. At 10:03 PM 6/27/2006, you wrote: I forgot, is this the E300? Do those things have piston cooling jets? Seems like 1995 was not a turbo year. If a cooling jet fell off, I wonder how much oil pressure would escape from the hole? Another possibility (on any engine) is loss of an oil galley plug. Happened to my Dad's 1973 Ford P/U, he left it idling for half an hour and when he returned it was making an awful clatter. He paid $$ hundreds in labor to replace a $3 part. Ford was not interested in a policy adjustment for an engine defect on a six year old truck. Dad hasn't bought a Ford since, and never will. I was amazed the engine still seemed to run normally after that. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6/27/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6/27/2006
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
The pan was off less than 20k miles ago, so unless something odd happened I can't imagine that much buildup would have occurred that quickly. Not that I'm dismissing the clocked screen, but I would be very surprised if that was the case. If the gauge checks out, the pan will be the next thing to check. J.B. At 09:14 AM 6/28/2006, you wrote: Clogged pickup screens are pretty common on old tractors that had been run for years with non-detergent oil, any dirt or crud that got into the engine settled into the oil pan. Common practice when switching to detergent oil is to drop the pan and scrape the crud out. Guess what I need to do on my tractor this fall? -Curt '52 Farmall Super M Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:52:19 -0400 From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Have you owned maintained the car since new? I had a 280S that the PO failed to have regular oil changes - the intake screen on the oil pump pickup was partially clogged with debris and it would act as you describe as it starved for oil. Had another used MB with similar symptoms that had a main bearing fail. Those are extreme possibilities - especially if the maintanence history is questionable - checking the gauge 1st is the prudent thing to do. Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ - Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6/27/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6/27/2006
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
Yeah, replace the gauge. Or install a 2nd gauge. A mechanical style with no electrical sending unit. what kind of car is this? -Michael -Original Message- From: J.B. Hebert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jun 27, 2006 12:18 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Thanks, J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, and comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the truimph of high achievement, and who at the worse, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat --President Theodore Roosevelt (1910 Paris, France)
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
Grrr... totally forgot to mention the car is a '95 E300D with 214,000 miles running on M1 5W40. At 12:18 PM 6/27/2006, you wrote: On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Thanks, J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
J.B. Hebert wrote: On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Check the pressure transducer. Resistance should be a few ohms at NO pressure (engine not running) and a bit less than 200 ohms at 3 bar. If the oil pump were to fail, that could do it (but that's VERY rare unless the pump has ingested some metal debris - say from a disintegrating vacuum pump - that jams it) or if the overpressure valve in the oil filter housing or the one near the oil pump jam open. Oil pressure transducer failures (they sometimes open and sometimes short) are FAR, FAR more common. http://mb.braingears.com/124_DISC2/Program/Chassis/54-0254.pdf Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
Isn't that what happens when the rubber o rings on the oil filter stalk thingus fail? I changed the oil in my 190D last weekend and when I went to pull the o rings off they split into many little pieces and fell on the ground... Sure glad I thought to replace them. -Curt Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:18:04 -0400 From: J.B. Hebert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-455D26F6 On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Thanks, J.B. Hebert - Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Jun 27 18:09:49 2006 Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net ([63.240.77.83]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FvI0T-0005kb-Bl for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:09:49 + Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-24-3-195-27.hsd1.pa.comcast.net[24.3.195.27]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with ESMTP id 2006062718093901300b36bse; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:09:39 + Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:10:34 -0400 From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:09:49 - Trampas wrote: Bad ground between engine and chassie? High resistance in the circuit (like a loose ground) results in HIGH oil pressure reading. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
I'm not sure the effect would be so immediate and drastic, unless one or both of the o-rings came off while I was putting it back together. Both o-rings were pliable and had no signs of cracking. I'll check this evening when I check the filter. J.B. At 02:08 PM 6/27/2006, you wrote: Isn't that what happens when the rubber o rings on the oil filter stalk thingus fail? I changed the oil in my 190D last weekend and when I went to pull the o rings off they split into many little pieces and fell on the ground... Sure glad I thought to replace them. -Curt Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:18:04 -0400 From: J.B. Hebert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-455D26F6 On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Thanks, J.B. Hebert - Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
J.B. Hebert wrote: I'm not sure the effect would be so immediate and drastic, unless one or both of the o-rings came off while I was putting it back together. Both o-rings were pliable and had no signs of cracking. I'll check this evening when I check the filter. I can't imagine that even both little stem O rings failing would do what you've described, BUT if the big rubber seal inside the oil filter were displaced when installed and finally failed - THAT COULD DO IT! That's quite rare, but it has been reported. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
Have you owned maintained the car since new? I had a 280S that the PO failed to have regular oil changes - the intake screen on the oil pump pickup was partially clogged with debris and it would act as you describe as it starved for oil. Had another used MB with similar symptoms that had a main bearing fail. Those are extreme possibilities - especially if the maintanence history is questionable - checking the gauge 1st is the prudent thing to do. Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: J.B. Hebert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure Grrr... totally forgot to mention the car is a '95 E300D with 214,000 miles running on M1 5W40. At 12:18 PM 6/27/2006, you wrote: On my way into work today my low oil light came on. Oil pressure was fine, so I continued on another minute or 2 and the light went out. A few miles later I noticed that my oil pressure had started to fall. When it dipped below .5 bar, I shut off the motor and coasted to the side of the road. The low oil light had not come back on again. I popped the hood and checked for leaks or any indication of a problem. I found no leaks, and the oil level was between min and max on the dipstick. I restarted the car and the oil pressure went to about 1.2 bar, but would not go higher as RPMs increased. After 10 seconds or so of running it started to drop again so I shut the motor off again. The vehicle has shown no signs of a failing oil pump or any other issues. It normally idles around 1.8 to 2 bar and pegs the needle quickly. There are no odd sounds, smells, or sights. Now, I changed the oil filter last night (Mann filter, just like always), which is the only thing I've done to the car recently. I have no idea if it's coincidence or not, but I plan on pulling the filter tonight to see if I can see anything wrong. Even if the filter was faulty and stopped oil flow, there is a filter bypass so I should not have seen the symptoms I'm seeing. It appears that the oil is not flowing back down to the sump quickly enough and the pump is sucking air. I'm having the vehicle towed home for further diagnosis, but welcome any suggestions. Thanks, J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 J.B. Hebert -- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
Curt Raymond wrote: Isn't that what happens when the rubber o rings on the oil filter stalk thingus fail? I don't think it's anywhere near that dramatic. On my '83 300D Turbo they were so hard I had to chip them out with a screwdriver to replace them, but replacing them made very little difference in the gauge reading. I think it may have reduced the pulsation at idle slightly, but the average reading was the same before and after -- about 1.3 bar at hot idle.
Re: [MBZ] Sudden loss of oil pressure
Thanks for the suggestion. Am I correct in assuming that the low oil light and the oil pressure gauge are on separate circuits? Yes, completely unrelated circuits, except that they do share grounds. (Both engine and inside the cluster.) -- Jim
