Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-26 Thread Richard Murdoch
 On 1/24/06, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  The local independent shop has the remains
  of an SD that caught fire while driving down the interstate.  I would have
  believed that to be impossible until I saw it.  The fire does not appear
  to
  have started at the alternator or battery.


Not quite impossible.  A friend had his 85 300D catch fire while he was on the 
highway.  It was apparently caused by dragging brakes; either the flexible hose 
was clogged or the caliper was stuck.  Another motorist put the fire out very 
quickly and there was not much damage.
  

Richard Murdoch
82 240D
82 300TDt





Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-26 Thread Mitch Haley
Richard Murdoch wrote:
 Not quite impossible.  A friend had his 85 300D catch fire while he was on 
 the 
 highway. 

My mail carrier stopped in my driveway and told me she was having brake
trouble. I noticed that the trouble with her Taurus at that moment in
time was the flames behind the right front wheel. I ran back in the house
for an extinguisher, one quick blast put it out.



Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-26 Thread Christopher McCann
why I carry a fire extinguisher in the 300SD...prolly should throw one in the 
TD too.
  
  Chris

Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Richard Murdoch wrote:
 Not quite impossible.  A friend had his 85 300D catch fire while he was on 
 the 
 highway. 

My mail carrier stopped in my driveway and told me she was having brake
trouble. I noticed that the trouble with her Taurus at that moment in
time was the flames behind the right front wheel. I ran back in the house
for an extinguisher, one quick blast put it out.

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Christopher McCann, Squier Park, Kansas City, Missouri
-2005 Blue Point Siamese, Rose
-1992 Volkswagen Golf, diesel, 185K km, Nanook
-1987 300TD, 151K, Rotk├Ąppchen
-1985 300SD, 211K, Wulf 
-1976 240D, ?K, AKP-Wagen (Alternativen Kraftstoffs Pr├╝fenlastwagen)
-1972 Jacobsen 21 Turbo Vent
-1971 Case 222 Hydrive, 12HP Kohler, 38 deck, Snowcaster, One Banger

-
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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:03:04 -0500
From: ned kleinhenz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Someone asked if the headlight wipers make any difference.

I have one 124 with wipers and another 124 without.

The wipers make a very noticable difference when they clean winter salt fro=
m
the headlights.

Ned Kleinhenz


Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-25 Thread Bob Rentfro

Amen, Dr. L

Bob Rentfro
'77 300D 148K
'01 VW Beetle TDI 61K
Litchfield Park, AZ

- Original Message - 
From: Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:09 PM
Subject: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars



Today we learned that a HS friend of my daughter was burned beyond any
recognition after her 2005 Toyota hit a rock  pillar at the entrance to a
park and then burned.  It took them almost a week to find out who it
was.  There was not enough of the vehicle left to get a VIN from, and the
aluminum license plates melted away.  The fire was fueled not only by
gasoline, but by all the plastic inside and outside the vehicle.

This is a sickening event, and one that is unlikely in our well designed
solid old cars.  Many of us have been involved in accidents in our 
Mercedes
and walked away.  My daughter was T boned in her SL 2 years ago, and 
walked

away.  It was the kind of accident that had reportedly caused many lesser
vehicles to burn.

Each member of my family has been hit in their Mercedes in the past 4
years.  Each has walked or driven away.  Fortunately, my last run-in was 
23

years ago when the Pinto pulled out into my ol rusty trusty winter 190Dc
and was wiped out.

I believe my SDL may be the safest car on the road, if there is such a
thing with all the idiots they let drive now.

Drive safe.  Friends don't let friends drive Toyotas, , _,
 Or __! You fill in the blanks.


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Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-25 Thread Alex Chamberlain
Surely a big part of why the Toyota fire happened is just that it was
a gas car?  That's one big safety advantage of diesel that many people
don't think about---it's combustible, but not inflammable, much less
volatile.  Not saying that MB's aren't safer than other cars, rather
that there's a big fire-safety bonus to driving an oilburner on top of
the inherent crash safety engineered into the car.  (And not to
mention the fact that a 240D is incapable of acquiring enough kinetic
energy to damage itself or anything else in a collision!)

Alex Chamberlain
'87 300D Turbo

On 1/24/06, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Today we learned that a HS friend of my daughter was burned beyond any
 recognition after her 2005 Toyota hit a rock  pillar at the entrance to a
 park and then burned.  It took them almost a week to find out who it
 was.  There was not enough of the vehicle left to get a VIN from, and the
 aluminum license plates melted away.  The fire was fueled not only by
 gasoline, but by all the plastic inside and outside the vehicle.

 This is a sickening event, and one that is unlikely in our well designed
 solid old cars.  Many of us have been involved in accidents in our Mercedes
 and walked away.  My daughter was T boned in her SL 2 years ago, and walked
 away.  It was the kind of accident that had reportedly caused many lesser
 vehicles to burn.

 Each member of my family has been hit in their Mercedes in the past 4
 years.  Each has walked or driven away.  Fortunately, my last run-in was 23
 years ago when the Pinto pulled out into my ol rusty trusty winter 190Dc
 and was wiped out.

 I believe my SDL may be the safest car on the road, if there is such a
 thing with all the idiots they let drive now.

 Drive safe.  Friends don't let friends drive Toyotas, , _,
  Or __! You fill in the blanks.


 ___
 http://www.striplin.net
 For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
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Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-25 Thread Loren Faeth
I always thought that gasoline caused most vehicle fires, but I have seen a 
lot of semi tractors that burned.  The only difference is that diesel needs 
a wick or it needs to be heated enough to vaporize.  Gasoline evaporates 
easily at air temps.  Since diesel has more BTUs per gallon, it will burn 
longer or hotter once lit.


Metal scraping on pavement provides enough heat and sparks to light even 
diesel in some conditions.  Even a 240D (or 190Dc auto) can create a pool 
of fuel and a stream of sparks.  The local independent shop has the remains 
of an SD that caught fire while driving down the interstate.  I would have 
believed that to be impossible until I saw it.  The fire does not appear to 
have started at the alternator or battery.  It appears to have burned 
longer/hotter on the left side (where the fuel is) of the engine 
compartment.  It got hot enough that the valve cover melted.  I can't find 
an explanation of the cause of the fire.  I can only surmise a combination 
of oil leaks, fuel leaks and a seriously overheated/sparking electrical 
component (CC fuse maybe)


One thing that I have noticed is that on the old cars with the tank under 
the trunk (107-115 inclusive) if a fuel line is cut or broken, the fuel 
stays in the tank.  In the interest of safety after the Pinto debacle, 
the feds made the tanks move to behind the passenger seat.  On these later 
cars, the fuel will run out to the ground if you cut or break a fuel line 
in the engine compartment.  If a fire did start, these tanks will feed the 
fire.  This is independent of manufacturer.


Loren

At 07:08 PM 1/24/2006, you wrote:

Surely a big part of why the Toyota fire happened is just that it was
a gas car?  That's one big safety advantage of diesel that many people
don't think about---it's combustible, but not inflammable, much less
volatile.  Not saying that MB's aren't safer than other cars, rather
that there's a big fire-safety bonus to driving an oilburner on top of
the inherent crash safety engineered into the car.  (And not to
mention the fact that a 240D is incapable of acquiring enough kinetic
energy to damage itself or anything else in a collision!)

Alex Chamberlain
'87 300D Turbo





Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-25 Thread OK Don
I vaguely recall a scandal around a TV documentary where they were
demonstrating the difference in flamability of Diesle and gas cars by
firing a rifle at the fuel tanks. Neither one exploded onr burned.
They decided to light the gas tank with a model rocket engine to
demonstrate their point!

I still beleive that a Diesel car is less likely to burn than a gas
car though --

On 1/24/06, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I always thought that gasoline caused most vehicle fires, but I have seen a
 lot of semi tractors that burned.  The only difference is that diesel needs
 a wick or it needs to be heated enough to vaporize.  Gasoline evaporates
 easily at air temps.  Since diesel has more BTUs per gallon, it will burn
 longer or hotter once lit.

 Metal scraping on pavement provides enough heat and sparks to light even
 diesel in some conditions.  Even a 240D (or 190Dc auto) can create a pool
 of fuel and a stream of sparks.  The local independent shop has the remains
 of an SD that caught fire while driving down the interstate.  I would have
 believed that to be impossible until I saw it.  The fire does not appear to
 have started at the alternator or battery.  It appears to have burned
 longer/hotter on the left side (where the fuel is) of the engine
 compartment.  It got hot enough that the valve cover melted.  I can't find
 an explanation of the cause of the fire.  I can only surmise a combination
 of oil leaks, fuel leaks and a seriously overheated/sparking electrical
 component (CC fuse maybe)

 One thing that I have noticed is that on the old cars with the tank under
 the trunk (107-115 inclusive) if a fuel line is cut or broken, the fuel
 stays in the tank.  In the interest of safety after the Pinto debacle,
 the feds made the tanks move to behind the passenger seat.  On these later
 cars, the fuel will run out to the ground if you cut or break a fuel line
 in the engine compartment.  If a fire did start, these tanks will feed the
 fire.  This is independent of manufacturer.

 Loren


--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
'90 300D 243K, Rattled
'87 300SDL 290K, Limo Lite, or blue car
'81 240D 173K, Gramps, or yellow car
'78 450SLC 67K, brown car
'97 Ply Grand Voyager 78K Van Go



Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-25 Thread Jim Cathey
One thing that I have noticed is that on the old cars with the tank 
under

the trunk (107-115 inclusive) if a fuel line is cut or broken, the fuel
stays in the tank.


In the R107, at least, the tank is behind the rear seating area.
That is, above the floor of the trunk and forward of the bulkhead.
I can't speak for the coupe.

Regardless, I still feel safer in a diesel vehicle.

-- Jim




Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-25 Thread Loren Faeth
That was the chevy pickup truck attack.  they were trying to prove that 
side mounted tanks in pickups were dangerous.  They could not get the 
trucks to burn in the staged crashes, so the helped them with Estes model 
rocket engines.


At 09:36 PM 1/24/2006, you wrote:

I vaguely recall a scandal around a TV documentary where they were
demonstrating the difference in flamability of Diesle and gas cars by
firing a rifle at the fuel tanks. Neither one exploded onr burned.
They decided to light the gas tank with a model rocket engine to
demonstrate their point!

I still beleive that a Diesel car is less likely to burn than a gas
car though --

On 1/24/06, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I always thought that gasoline caused most vehicle fires, but I have seen a
 lot of semi tractors that burned.  The only difference is that diesel needs
 a wick or it needs to be heated enough to vaporize.  Gasoline evaporates
 easily at air temps.  Since diesel has more BTUs per gallon, it will burn
 longer or hotter once lit.

 Metal scraping on pavement provides enough heat and sparks to light even
 diesel in some conditions.  Even a 240D (or 190Dc auto) can create a pool
 of fuel and a stream of sparks.  The local independent shop has the remains
 of an SD that caught fire while driving down the interstate.  I would have
 believed that to be impossible until I saw it.  The fire does not appear to
 have started at the alternator or battery.  It appears to have burned
 longer/hotter on the left side (where the fuel is) of the engine
 compartment.  It got hot enough that the valve cover melted.  I can't find
 an explanation of the cause of the fire.  I can only surmise a combination
 of oil leaks, fuel leaks and a seriously overheated/sparking electrical
 component (CC fuse maybe)

 One thing that I have noticed is that on the old cars with the tank under
 the trunk (107-115 inclusive) if a fuel line is cut or broken, the fuel
 stays in the tank.  In the interest of safety after the Pinto debacle,
 the feds made the tanks move to behind the passenger seat.  On these later
 cars, the fuel will run out to the ground if you cut or break a fuel line
 in the engine compartment.  If a fire did start, these tanks will feed the
 fire.  This is independent of manufacturer.

 Loren


--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
'90 300D 243K, Rattled
'87 300SDL 290K, Limo Lite, or blue car
'81 240D 173K, Gramps, or yellow car
'78 450SLC 67K, brown car
'97 Ply Grand Voyager 78K Van Go

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Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-25 Thread Loren Faeth
I have not found out what model toyota it was.  I tend to believe it was 
one with the tank mounted behind the seat. (vertical) Those will gravity 
feed the fire, as I mentioned previously.  In a frontal collision, it is 
unlikely that a rear mounted tank would have spewed enough fuel to cause 
this carnage, because they will not drain by gravity under most circumstances.


Loren

At 09:58 PM 1/24/2006, you wrote:

Alex Chamberlain wrote:

 Surely a big part of why the Toyota fire happened is just that it was
 a gas car?

I think in this case it was caused by having an exposed fuel tank
under the car. It should not, however, be the lowest part of the
car. Makes me wonder what else got clobbered before the tank,
assuming she was going forward at the time. I would think
the front subframe, engine oil pan, passenger compartment
floor pan, etc, would have hit, and hit hard, before the stone
pillar got to the tank.







Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-25 Thread Loren Faeth
The attack was against Chevrolet, but it was really against ALL side 
mounted pickup tanks.  This includes every manufacturer of pickups.  Some 
used the tanks behind the seat in some models.  IH and Ford come to mind, 
but both IH and Ford also used side mounted tanks.  So did the datsun I 
had.  I am sure Dodge, Toyota and Mazda all did at some time or another.


At 10:09 PM 1/24/2006, you wrote:

OK Don wrote:

 I vaguely recall a scandal around a TV documentary where they were
 demonstrating the difference in flamability of Diesle and gas cars by
 firing a rifle at the fuel tanks. Neither one exploded onr burned.
 They decided to light the gas tank with a model rocket engine to
 demonstrate their point!

I thought that was a chevy pickup they rigged to blow up in a broadside
crash, to prove it was more dangerous than a ford.

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Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-25 Thread Bob Rentfro
That sounds like something that clown, who was smashing the 911 into 
stuff...and diss-ing the diesel Jag, would do.


Bob Rentfro
'77 300D 148K
'01 VW Beetle TDI 61K
Litchfield Park, AZ


- Original Message - 
From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars



I vaguely recall a scandal around a TV documentary where they were
demonstrating the difference in flamability of Diesle and gas cars by
firing a rifle at the fuel tanks. Neither one exploded onr burned.
They decided to light the gas tank with a model rocket engine to
demonstrate their point!

I still beleive that a Diesel car is less likely to burn than a gas
car though --

On 1/24/06, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I always thought that gasoline caused most vehicle fires, but I have seen 
a
lot of semi tractors that burned.  The only difference is that diesel 
needs

a wick or it needs to be heated enough to vaporize.  Gasoline evaporates
easily at air temps.  Since diesel has more BTUs per gallon, it will burn
longer or hotter once lit.

Metal scraping on pavement provides enough heat and sparks to light even
diesel in some conditions.  Even a 240D (or 190Dc auto) can create a pool
of fuel and a stream of sparks.  The local independent shop has the 
remains
of an SD that caught fire while driving down the interstate.  I would 
have
believed that to be impossible until I saw it.  The fire does not appear 
to

have started at the alternator or battery.  It appears to have burned
longer/hotter on the left side (where the fuel is) of the engine
compartment.  It got hot enough that the valve cover melted.  I can't 
find
an explanation of the cause of the fire.  I can only surmise a 
combination

of oil leaks, fuel leaks and a seriously overheated/sparking electrical
component (CC fuse maybe)

One thing that I have noticed is that on the old cars with the tank under
the trunk (107-115 inclusive) if a fuel line is cut or broken, the fuel
stays in the tank.  In the interest of safety after the Pinto debacle,
the feds made the tanks move to behind the passenger seat.  On these 
later

cars, the fuel will run out to the ground if you cut or break a fuel line
in the engine compartment.  If a fire did start, these tanks will feed 
the

fire.  This is independent of manufacturer.

Loren



--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
'90 300D 243K, Rattled
'87 300SDL 290K, Limo Lite, or blue car
'81 240D 173K, Gramps, or yellow car
'78 450SLC 67K, brown car
'97 Ply Grand Voyager 78K Van Go

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Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-25 Thread Loren Faeth
Yes, your are right.  I didn't think that one through.  I don't mess with 
107s as much as you do.

I too, feel safer with dissel fool.  (but it does burn)


At 10:25 PM 1/24/2006, you wrote:

 One thing that I have noticed is that on the old cars with the tank
 under
 the trunk (107-115 inclusive) if a fuel line is cut or broken, the fuel
 stays in the tank.

In the R107, at least, the tank is behind the rear seating area.
That is, above the floor of the trunk and forward of the bulkhead.
I can't speak for the coupe.

Regardless, I still feel safer in a diesel vehicle.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-25 Thread l02turner

Well said Loren,
If you ever have time and want to confirm your comments, take a walk thru a 
auto recycler that has lots of MBs in his yard and check out the damaged 
MBs.  By its nature all the MBs will have been totalled but take a look at 
the passenger compartments and you'll be amazed at how the vast majority 
have virtually undamaged passenger compartments!  Most have door which open 
and close easily.  In the times I've done this I have only seen *one* MB 
where the drivers/passengers may have been killed.  Looked like another can 
hit the MB's roof while airborne.


Kaleb probably has some experience seeing this kind of thing --

As you know, they're incredibly safe cars and MB probably sells more than a 
few cars to people who have recently been in an accident and want their next 
car to be safer.


Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 78 240D)

A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
- Original Message - 
From: Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:09 PM
Subject: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars



Today we learned that a HS friend of my daughter was burned beyond any
recognition after her 2005 Toyota hit a rock  pillar at the entrance to a
park and then burned.  It took them almost a week to find out who it
was.  There was not enough of the vehicle left to get a VIN from, and the
aluminum license plates melted away.  The fire was fueled not only by
gasoline, but by all the plastic inside and outside the vehicle.

This is a sickening event, and one that is unlikely in our well designed
solid old cars.  Many of us have been involved in accidents in our 
Mercedes
and walked away.  My daughter was T boned in her SL 2 years ago, and 
walked

away.  It was the kind of accident that had reportedly caused many lesser
vehicles to burn.

Each member of my family has been hit in their Mercedes in the past 4
years.  Each has walked or driven away.  Fortunately, my last run-in was 
23

years ago when the Pinto pulled out into my ol rusty trusty winter 190Dc
and was wiped out.

I believe my SDL may be the safest car on the road, if there is such a
thing with all the idiots they let drive now.

Drive safe.  Friends don't let friends drive Toyotas, , _,
 Or __! You fill in the blanks.


___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [MBZ] Why we drive old Mercedes Benz Cars

2006-01-25 Thread LT Don
I asked Jeff about that car just a few days ago. He thought that maybe it
was brake fluid rather than #2 that got the fire going initially.

On 1/24/06, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 IThe local independent shop has the remains
 of an SD that caught fire while driving down the interstate.  I would have
 believed that to be impossible until I saw it.  The fire does not appear
 to
 have started at the alternator or battery.




--
1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen