Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory...
I really couldn't find much. Here is a report on the proposal...but I am pretty sure it passed, but I think it's UP TO $4,000 based on the vehicles enviro-friendliness...and I bet diesel is not rated at $4,000...if anyone finds out more, please let us know. Christopher --- Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Got any more info on that tax credit? With $4k off a new Jetta or Passat starts to look real interesting to me. Maybe even a Liberty with the Italian diesel, esp if they get the 6spd manual shift in it. -Curt Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 16:47:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory... To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 LCDR, Data point: very good. Makes sense as I have read transportation shifts to rail in economic downturns...the refineries would have tweaked their refining for less diesel, now as demand has been lowly rising (as you observe in Charleston), I can see how there really could be a shortage...Oil Co's were too slow on correcting the correction. 2nd para: good point. It makes it easier to achieve BioD and DinoD parity, but my point was gasoline/diesel disparity...I wonder, even with the $4,000 tax incentive to buy a new diesel, how many people have NOT bought a diesel b/c of the higher price of diesel fuel (that would still be stupid, though because the difference is made up by the greater economy of diesel vehicles) to say nothing of the $4000 credit on the new vehicle. Makes me want to buy a 320 CDI :-) (want and afford are two different things). __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net Christopher McCann, Raytown, Missouri -1985 300SD, 207K miles, Wulf http://don.homelinux.net/mbz/Chris -1976 240D, ManyK miles, AKP-Wagen (Alternativen Kraftstoffs Prüfenlastwagen = Alternative Fuel Test Vehicle) -1998 Toyota Sienna CE, 99K miles, The Van Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory...no W115
Christopher, The W115 is indeed a fun car! Our W115 240D is way faster than our W123 240D, and it drives nicer. Bruce --- Christopher McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know these threads get tiring, but I am still in my first year of dieseling and I recall from this past winter the mantra Diesel is always higher in the winter because of demand for heating oil. Gas is higher in the summer becuase of the travel season Fall agricultural use also uses alot of diesel it was said...can't see, personally, how it's more than planting in winter - it should be less. Plow, till, rotovate, plant, cultivate, etc...harvest is nothing in comparison. ANYWAY, What the hell is the story now? From what I know, there are no diesel refineries, there are oil refineries and all sorts of stuff gets separated out. It can only be two things, it seems: 1. Higher demand. Well, I doubt that as train shipping has jumped substantially (this happens in uncertain economic times and confirmed by my friend who works for one of the big rail freight lines) and trains use ALOT less diesel to move the same freight as trucks would. Is trucking up so much to offset this and create higher demand? 2. Conspiracy (unproveable speculation here). The oil companies remember that the '70's oil crisis caused a jump in the sale of diesel vehicles. It's happening again. Many new diesel models introduced. Front cover of local car mag advertized the diesel Passat Wagon at 30-whatever mpg, etc. Fed gov just passed a $4,000 (!) tax credit for the purchase of a new diesel vehicle. The oil co's didn't care in the 70's/80's as they sold gas and diesel. WHAT IS DIFFERENT NOW is that BioD is becoming increasingly popular (log way to go, but no doubt it is happening). I am wondering if they are not keeping the cost high to DISSUADE the purchase of diesel vehicles which in a few years might be able to fill up on BioD for less than dinoD, which will mean $0 from THAT customer to big oil (unless they are in the BioD game too (I would be if I were them)). In Germany BioD is the CHEAPEST fuel available...so with economy of scale, price will come way down. (Euro fuels are so high becuase they are about 70% tax). Thoughts on the conspiracy theory? P.S. THe old 240D (new to me) is working great. Fun...going from the SD to it is like driving a Mercedes go-cart...peppier than I thought (W115 might be the reason). Thanks. Christopher McCann, Raytown, Missouri -1985 300SD, 207K miles, Wulf http://don.homelinux.net/mbz/Chris -1976 240D, ManyK miles, AKP-Wagen (Alternativen Kraftstoffs Prüfenlastwagen = Alternative Fuel Test Vehicle) -1998 Toyota Sienna CE, 99K miles, The Van __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net Bruce 82 300CD 333kmi 'His' 85 300CD 234kmi 'Hers' 75 240D 185kmi 'Theirs' (Back in Commission) 77 240D 199kmi 'The Brown Car' __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory...
One additional factor, at least in Florida, The last time I checked the state added about $.24/gal tax on gas and $.48/gal on diesel. It is just another hidden tax on all the trucked in consumables you buy at the store. Bob Dupuy
Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory...
I don't remember the exact amounts, but OK is doing the same. On 7/8/05, Bob DuPuy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One additional factor, at least in Florida, The last time I checked the state added about $.24/gal tax on gas and $.48/gal on diesel. It is just another hidden tax on all the trucked in consumables you buy at the store. Bob Dupuy -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '87 300SDL '81 240D '78 450SLC
Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory...
You're right - forgot about that. It's to cover the damage done to the roads by semi's, but we get stuck paying it too. Christopher --- Bob DuPuy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One additional factor, at least in Florida, The last time I checked the state added about $.24/gal tax on gas and $.48/gal on diesel. It is just another hidden tax on all the trucked in consumables you buy at the store. Bob Dupuy ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net Christopher McCann, Raytown, Missouri -1985 300SD, 207K miles, Wulf http://don.homelinux.net/mbz/Chris -1976 240D, ManyK miles, AKP-Wagen (Alternativen Kraftstoffs Prüfenlastwagen = Alternative Fuel Test Vehicle) -1998 Toyota Sienna CE, 99K miles, The Van Sell on Yahoo! Auctions no fees. Bid on great items. http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory...
Got any more info on that tax credit? With $4k off a new Jetta or Passat starts to look real interesting to me. Maybe even a Liberty with the Italian diesel, esp if they get the 6spd manual shift in it. -Curt Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 16:47:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory... To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 LCDR, Data point: very good. Makes sense as I have read transportation shifts to rail in economic downturns...the refineries would have tweaked their refining for less diesel, now as demand has been lowly rising (as you observe in Charleston), I can see how there really could be a shortage...Oil Co's were too slow on correcting the correction. 2nd para: good point. It makes it easier to achieve BioD and DinoD parity, but my point was gasoline/diesel disparity...I wonder, even with the $4,000 tax incentive to buy a new diesel, how many people have NOT bought a diesel b/c of the higher price of diesel fuel (that would still be stupid, though because the difference is made up by the greater economy of diesel vehicles) to say nothing of the $4000 credit on the new vehicle. Makes me want to buy a 320 CDI :-) (want and afford are two different things). __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory...
Bob DuPuy wrote: One additional factor, at least in Florida, The last time I checked the state added about $.24/gal tax on gas and $.48/gal on diesel. It is just another hidden tax on all the trucked in consumables you buy at the store. In Michigan, diesel carries a *lower* tax (by something like $0.02) but it's *still* more expensive than regular unleaded.
Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory...
sombody is sure getting rich somewhere BenzBarn wrote: That's so much bull. I grow corn and right now the price for a bushel is only $2.60 CDN. Do you know how many boxes of corn flakes one bushel can make? If there's anything is this country more out of control it's the price difference paid to producers compared to what consumers pay. There's less than 25 cents worth of corn is a large box that costs over 4 bucks. ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts
Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory...
yes, once something goes up, its VERY hard to get the price down because they know people will pay it, take gas for example, I doubt we ever see it go below 2 a gallon again, much less back to normal at around 1.29 Christopher McCann wrote: Reminds me of a comment my dairy farmer father-in-law made once. When the price he's paid for milk goes up, it goes up in the store. WHen the price he is paid goes down, even substantially over long periods, the price in the store remains the same. Christopher --- BenzBarn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's so much bull. I grow corn and right now the price for a bushel is only $2.60 CDN. Do you know how many boxes of corn flakes one bushel can make? If there's anything is this country more out of control it's the price difference paid to producers compared to what consumers pay. There's less than 25 cents worth of corn is a large box that costs over 4 bucks. ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net Christopher McCann, Raytown, Missouri -1985 300SD, 207K miles, Wulf http://don.homelinux.net/mbz/Chris -1976 240D, ManyK miles, AKP-Wagen (Alternativen Kraftstoffs Prüfenlastwagen = Alternative Fuel Test Vehicle) -1998 Toyota Sienna CE, 99K miles, The Van __ Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts
RE: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory...
Crude oil, unleaded gasoline, heating oil and natural gas are all traded on the NYMEX. I did a cursory search to try to find demand for diesel, but didn't find it. What leads you to believe that diesel demand is up? I would assume that as the economy improves, demand for all fuels would increase. Refined products can be shipped just like crude oil, and in fact, since the US is not building new refineries, it is likely that refineries built in the Middle East and other locations will be shipping significant amounts of product to the USA at some point. In any case, the major refining centers for the US are New Jersey, Norfolk, the Gulf Coast, and Southern California (Long Beach). There are others around, but those are the biggies. Product pipelines run all across the country and deliver to local terminals. Product is also shipped by barge up the Mississippi and other rivers. Actual truck transport of product is pretty much limited to last mile delivery. There is a pretty complicated food chain of middlemen (middlepersons?) in between the refiner and the gas station operator. Royce -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher McCann Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 4:29 PM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: RE: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory... Royce, Your first point about the refining process new info for me, I assumed a fixed percentage of gas, kero, sludge, whatever came out of every batch. Good point. And it might be relevant if we have a high domestic demand for diesel right now, which I don't think we do. I would guess such data is available. 2nd para - competition for crude misses my point which is the DISPARITY in gasoline and diesel prices...increased demand for crude (which there is from China, etc) increases fuel in general. I understand that. International competition for end product - do people ship tanker loads of diesel and gasoline around the world? Maybe they do, but seems like refiniing is LARGELY a local process. oil companies can't any more manipulate the price of product than the agribusiness folks can manipulate the price of corn flakes. Which is why ADM got fined millions of dollars for price fixing a couple years ago. Kraft used to dump tons of cheese on the market to force the price of milk down, then buy tons more milk to offset the loss on the cheese...until they got caught about 5 years ago...read up on the Wisoconsin Cheese Exchange. Anyway, I know that crude is traded as a commodity - at various grades - what about the finished product? Price setting is left to the producer at that point, it would seem. Christopher BioD in Germany, not part of my essential argument - agree. They have an economy of scale on the production end (France too, largest consumer of BioD) and I agree, it's probably taxed less. --- Royce Engler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, where to begin True...there are no diesel refineries, although for any given refinery, the different trains are optimized for process and stream, and changing the mix is not exactly trivial. So...if there is an unanticipated shift in demand, the refiners can be caught making too much of one, and not enough of another. That's part of the planning process that refinery managers go through on a regular basis. Higher demand includes a lot of issues. It's not just transportation, it's also competition for product and crude from other countries (i.e. China and India) and you won't necessarily see the answer by looking at one small part (i.e. increased rail shipping). Contrary to popular mythicism, oil companies can't any more manipulate the price of product than the agribusiness folks can manipulate the price of corn flakes. The price of product is set on the commodity markets and is truly a function of supply and demand. The low price of BioD in Germany may be a function of a lot of things unrelated to the market. Maybe tax advantages for BioD? Royce Engler 1985 300TD Turbo 265K -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher McCann Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 11:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory... I know these threads get tiring, but I am still in my first year of dieseling and I recall from this past winter the mantra Diesel is always higher in the winter because of demand for heating oil. Gas is higher in the summer becuase of the travel season Fall agricultural use also uses alot of diesel it was said...can't see, personally, how it's more than planting in winter - it should be less. Plow, till, rotovate, plant, cultivate, etc...harvest is nothing in comparison. ANYWAY, What the hell is the story now? From what I know, there are no diesel refineries, there are oil refineries and all sorts of stuff gets separated out. It can only be two things, it seems: 1. Higher demand. Well
Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory...
That's so much bull. I grow corn and right now the price for a bushel is only $2.60 CDN. Do you know how many boxes of corn flakes one bushel can make? If there's anything is this country more out of control it's the price difference paid to producers compared to what consumers pay. There's less than 25 cents worth of corn is a large box that costs over 4 bucks.
Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory...
Reminds me of a comment my dairy farmer father-in-law made once. When the price he's paid for milk goes up, it goes up in the store. WHen the price he is paid goes down, even substantially over long periods, the price in the store remains the same. Christopher --- BenzBarn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's so much bull. I grow corn and right now the price for a bushel is only $2.60 CDN. Do you know how many boxes of corn flakes one bushel can make? If there's anything is this country more out of control it's the price difference paid to producers compared to what consumers pay. There's less than 25 cents worth of corn is a large box that costs over 4 bucks. ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net Christopher McCann, Raytown, Missouri -1985 300SD, 207K miles, Wulf http://don.homelinux.net/mbz/Chris -1976 240D, ManyK miles, AKP-Wagen (Alternativen Kraftstoffs Prüfenlastwagen = Alternative Fuel Test Vehicle) -1998 Toyota Sienna CE, 99K miles, The Van __ Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory...
Same with oil. The refiners are making windfall profits. The future price of a barrel of crude goes up on a the market at noon, by two the price of fuel at the pump has gone up. We the consumers are hostage to the monopoly so we pay up. The price of fuel goes to $2.50 then drops to $2.30 and we think we are getting a bargain. Then the price of fuel goes to $2.70 and drops to $2.50 and again we think we are getting a deal. The actual cost of the fuel we are using now was probably $40 a barrel. Eventually, this should bring about inflation or the perception of inflation, causing interest rates to rise. Which will depress the economy even further. Enough doom and gloom. Back to diesel content... Rick Knoble 1985 300 CD - Original Message - From: Christopher McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory... Reminds me of a comment my dairy farmer father-in-law made once. When the price he's paid for milk goes up, it goes up in the store. WHen the price he is paid goes down, even substantially over long periods, the price in the store remains the same. Christopher --- BenzBarn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's so much bull. I grow corn and right now the price for a bushel is only $2.60 CDN. Do you know how many boxes of corn flakes one bushel can make? If there's anything is this country more out of control it's the price difference paid to producers compared to what consumers pay. There's less than 25 cents worth of corn is a large box that costs over 4 bucks. ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net Christopher McCann, Raytown, Missouri -1985 300SD, 207K miles, Wulf http://don.homelinux.net/mbz/Chris -1976 240D, ManyK miles, AKP-Wagen (Alternativen Kraftstoffs Prüfenlastwagen = Alternative Fuel Test Vehicle) -1998 Toyota Sienna CE, 99K miles, The Van __ Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
