Crude oil, unleaded gasoline, heating oil and natural gas are all traded on the NYMEX. I did a cursory search to try to find demand for diesel, but didn't find it. What leads you to believe that diesel demand is up? I would assume that as the economy improves, demand for all fuels would increase.
Refined products can be shipped just like crude oil, and in fact, since the US is not building new refineries, it is likely that refineries built in the Middle East and other locations will be shipping significant amounts of product to the USA at some point. In any case, the major refining centers for the US are New Jersey, Norfolk, the Gulf Coast, and Southern California (Long Beach). There are others around, but those are the biggies. Product pipelines run all across the country and deliver to local terminals. Product is also shipped by barge up the Mississippi and other rivers. Actual truck transport of product is pretty much limited to "last mile" delivery. There is a pretty complicated food chain of middlemen (middlepersons?) in between the refiner and the gas station operator. Royce -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher McCann Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 4:29 PM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: RE: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting theory... Royce, Your first point about the refining process new info for me, I assumed a fixed percentage of gas, kero, sludge, whatever came out of every batch. Good point. And it might be relevant if we have a high domestic demand for diesel right now, which I don't think we do. I would guess such data is available. 2nd para - competition for crude misses my point which is the DISPARITY in gasoline and diesel prices...increased demand for crude (which there is from China, etc) increases fuel in general. I understand that. International competition for end product - do people ship tanker loads of diesel and gasoline around the world? Maybe they do, but seems like refiniing is LARGELY a local process. "oil companies can't any more manipulate the price of product than the agribusiness folks can manipulate the price of corn flakes." Which is why ADM got fined millions of dollars for price fixing a couple years ago. Kraft used to dump tons of cheese on the market to force the price of milk down, then buy tons more milk to offset the loss on the cheese...until they got caught about 5 years ago...read up on the Wisoconsin Cheese Exchange. Anyway, I know that crude is traded as a commodity - at various grades - what about the finished product? Price setting is left to the producer at that point, it would seem. Christopher BioD in Germany, not part of my essential argument - agree. They have an economy of scale on the production end (France too, largest consumer of BioD) and I agree, it's probably taxed less. --- Royce Engler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well, where to begin.... > > True...there are no "diesel refineries", although > for any given refinery, > the different trains are optimized for process and > stream, and changing the > mix is not exactly trivial. So...if there is an > unanticipated shift in > demand, the refiners can be caught making too much > of one, and not enough of > another. That's part of the planning process that > refinery managers go > through on a regular basis. > > "Higher demand" includes a lot of issues. It's not > just transportation, > it's also competition for product and crude from > other countries (i.e. China > and India) and you won't necessarily see the answer > by looking at one small > part (i.e. increased rail shipping). > > Contrary to popular mythicism, oil companies can't > any more manipulate the > price of product than the agribusiness folks can > manipulate the price of > corn flakes. The price of product is set on the > commodity markets and is > truly a function of supply and demand. > > The low price of BioD in Germany may be a function > of a lot of things > unrelated to the market. Maybe tax advantages for > BioD? > > Royce Engler > 1985 300TD Turbo 265K > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > Christopher McCann > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 11:36 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting > theory... > > > I know these threads get tiring, but I am still in > my > first year of "dieseling" and I recall from this > past > winter the mantra "Diesel is always higher in the > winter because of demand for heating oil. Gas is > higher in the summer becuase of the travel season" > Fall agricultural use also uses alot of diesel it > was > said...can't see, personally, how it's more than > planting in winter - it should be less. Plow, till, > rotovate, plant, cultivate, etc...harvest is nothing > in comparison. > > ANYWAY, What the hell is the story now? > > >From what I know, there are no "diesel refineries", > there are oil refineries and all sorts of stuff gets > separated out. It can only be two things, it seems: > 1. Higher demand. Well, I doubt that as train > shipping > has jumped substantially (this happens in uncertain > economic times and confirmed by my friend who works > for one of the big rail freight lines) and trains > use > ALOT less diesel to move the same freight as trucks > would. Is trucking up so much to offset this and > create higher demand? > 2. Conspiracy (unproveable speculation here). The > oil > companies remember that the '70's oil crisis caused > a > jump in the sale of diesel vehicles. It's happening > again. Many new diesel models introduced. Front > cover > of local car mag advertized the diesel Passat Wagon > at > 30-whatever mpg, etc. Fed gov just passed a $4,000 > (!) > tax credit for the purchase of a new diesel vehicle. > > The oil co's didn't care in the 70's/80's as they > sold > gas and diesel. WHAT IS DIFFERENT NOW is that BioD > is > becoming increasingly popular (log way to go, but no > doubt it is happening). I am wondering if they are > not > keeping the cost high to DISSUADE the purchase of > diesel vehicles which in a few years might be able > to > fill up on BioD for less than dinoD, which will mean > $0 from THAT customer to big oil (unless they are in > the BioD game too (I would be if I were them)). > > In Germany BioD is the CHEAPEST fuel available...so > with economy of scale, price will come way down. > (Euro > fuels are so high becuase they are about 70% tax). > > Thoughts on the conspiracy theory? > > P.S. THe old 240D (new to me) is working great. > Fun...going from the SD to it is like driving a > Mercedes go-cart...peppier than I thought (W115 > might > be the reason). > > Thanks. > > Christopher McCann, Raytown, Missouri > -1985 300SD, 207K miles, "Wulf" > http://don.homelinux.net/mbz/Chris > -1976 240D, ManyK miles, "AKP-Wagen" (Alternativen > Kraftstoffs > Prüfenlastwagen = Alternative Fuel Test Vehicle) > -1998 Toyota Sienna CE, 99K miles, "The Van" > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For new parts see www.buymbparts.com > For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > > > > _______________________________________ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For new parts see www.buymbparts.com > For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > Christopher McCann, Raytown, Missouri -1985 300SD, 207K miles, "Wulf" http://don.homelinux.net/mbz/Chris -1976 240D, ManyK miles, "AKP-Wagen" (Alternativen Kraftstoffs Prüfenlastwagen = Alternative Fuel Test Vehicle) -1998 Toyota Sienna CE, 99K miles, "The Van" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
