Catching up after two-week vacation...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can anyone give us a difference list?
a summary:
MetaCard Revolution
Enginesame same
Both use the same engine; languages features,
speed etc. identical for both
I
Wow. See what happens when you only go through your lists once a
week...
My feelings on this are mixed, on the one hand I'm hoping Scott got a
sweet deal and can retire/relax after years of hard work. I haven't
read through all the RE:'s on this thread but if it hasn't been said
yet then
The first order of business will be to set up a mailing
list so that we can start discussions of how that group should be
organized and later, what changes to the UI everyone wants (and are
willing to contribute to!). That should help keep this list focused
on *using* the UI, with some
Hi Everyone,
First, let me say: Welcome! We're glad to have you as members of the
newly-unified team.
Next I'd like to clear up a few things, and ask you to be patient.
Many of you have asked what will happen to the MetaCard IDE going forward.
We're still working out the exact details, but rest
From the FAQ on the press release page at
http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html:
What happens to existing MetaCard customers?
Existing customers will get a free upgrade to Revolution with
their next subscription renewal.
What does that mean? Can I cross-grade now or do I have to wait
Not to put too fine a point on it but I'm exactly happy about using
the RunRev UI
Whoops, that should read I'm NOT exactly happy...
Sincerely,
Simon
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Wow. See what happens when you only go through your lists once a
week...
My feelings on this are mixed, on the one hand I'm hoping Scott got a
sweet deal and can retire/relax after years of hard work. I haven't
read through all the RE:'s on this thread but if it hasn't been said
yet then
The first order of business will be to set up a mailing
list so that we can start discussions of how that group should be
organized and later, what changes to the UI everyone wants (and are
willing to contribute to!). That should help keep this list focused
on *using* the UI, with some
As Scott said the MC IDE is now open source so you can continue to
maintain
an engine license and use the MC IDE instead of Rev. It's up to you if
you
want to switch or not but it seems that all development will go into
the
engine and the Rev IDE.
As long as the new features are documented then
Richard MacLemale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There's a decent chance that MetaCard 2.5 will run on the Mac OS for
another 5 years without breaking.
Just as HyperCard runs smoothly under Classic on my iceBook ;-))
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[EMAIL
There's a decent chance that MetaCard 2.5 will run on the Mac OS for
another 5 years without breaking.
Just as HyperCard runs smoothly under Classic on my iceBook ;-))
Ah but OSX surely breaks Hypercard, unless you are running in Classic
mode. And the new boxes don't even support Classic mode
Shari wrote:
There's a decent chance that MetaCard 2.5 will run on the Mac OS for
another 5 years without breaking.
Just as HyperCard runs smoothly under Classic on my iceBook ;-))
Ah but OSX surely breaks Hypercard, unless you are running in Classic
mode. And the new boxes don't even
From: Alain Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Now, like I said... If I were to be able to trade
my 2.5 license right now for a Rev 2.0.1 license,
in an even trade, I would do it and Revolution
would have one more user. Revolution wouldn't
make any money off of me right now, but they're
not going to anyway
If nothing else, MC 2.5 doesn't support nifty things like drawers, slated
for a future release.
New Macs run Classic, they just won't boot into Classic natively. This
destroys only a subset of Classic applications. ;)
I didn't realize this. I've heard a lot of talk that Classic simply
will not
Ken Ray a écrit:
Just went over to the RunRev site and saw this headline:
Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology
You can read all about it here:
http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html
How does everyone feel about this? I can see good and not-so-good things
(depending on how RunRev acts on
Ken Ray a écrit:
Just went over to the RunRev site and saw this headline:
Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology
You can read all about it here:
http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html
How does everyone feel about this? I can see good and not-so-good things
(depending on how RunRev acts on
both IDEs run off the same engine. Your code will open right up in the
Rev IDE without change. When you compile your programs, they will use
Just tried loading my mc home stack into rev2 ... didn't work :)
alex
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users...
-=-
Xavier Bury
TNS NT LAN Server
ext 6465
Shari [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
09/07/03 16:06
Please respond to metacard
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:^
Subject:Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV
At 7:23 AM -0700 7/9/03, Richard MacLemale wrote:
Existing customers will get a free upgrade to Revolution with
their next subscription renewal.
Which is essentially a paid cross-grade. It means that the next time I get
ready to fork over 300 bucks to MetaCard I give it to Rev instead and
The only thing I can think of that might be different is that Rev
uses different default fonts and sizes. If you have any fields that
use text defaults, they may look different (text will be smaller.)
Other than that, I can't think of anything that would affect your
stack.
I know some slipped
Besides, no *serious* programmer has only one tool in his or her
kit because no one tool is a panacea.
Yep, that's the *best* insurance!
For those of you who know the traditional languages, the rest of us
can only wish. It took a year to decide whether to migrate to MC or
take the plunge
On 10/7/03 2:51 pm, Shari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe I'll let him catch his breath first :-)
Thanks :-) But rest assured, we have a great program of updates and
upgrades planned.
Kevin
Kevin Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution Limited: Software at the Speed
Shari wrote:
I envy those of you who are 35 and under, who at least had computer access as a
teenager. I am 40+.
And my primary goal is Gypsy King Software. It isn't a hobby. It is my company. My
heart and soul :-) So beware what criteria you use to define a * serious programmer
*.
Shari a écrit :
Besides, no *serious* programmer has only one tool in his or her
kit because no one tool is a panacea.
Yep, that's the *best* insurance!
For those of you who know the traditional languages, the rest of us
can only wish. It took a year to decide whether to migrate
On 7/9/03 12:36 AM, Alex Shaw wrote:
both IDEs run off the same engine. Your code will open right up in the
Rev IDE without change. When you compile your programs, they will use
Just tried loading my mc home stack into rev2 ... didn't work :)
I didn't think I had to specify that you can't
Shari wrote:
I know some slipped thru the cracks, as initially I chose Helvetica
as the default, only to discover it was not very consistent on the
platforms, so I switched to Arial for most text, and occasionally
Verdana. They seem to be pretty consistent from platform to
platform.
This
Shari wrote:
I wonder if I should bombard Kevin with the anomalies I've had to
find workarounds for... such as random(0) = 1
Under what circumstances would random(0) be expected to provide a useful
result? Why not save the clock cycles by using 0 directly?
and that the Mac menubar won't
Shari wrote:
I envy those of you who are 35 and under, who at least had
computer access as a teenager. I am 40+.
And my primary goal is Gypsy King Software. It isn't a
hobby. It is my company. My heart and soul :-) So beware what
criteria you use to define a * serious programmer
I'm approaching 60, Shari. When I was in school, IBM didn't exist.
Thats interesting Dan, as IBM has been around since 1924!
Yeah, bad choice of words. IBM didn't exist in the broad consciousness of the
community. In 1960, when I was in high school, computers were even less evident and
On 7/10/03 11:19 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote,
At 7:23 AM -0700 7/9/03, Richard MacLemale wrote:
Existing customers will get a free upgrade to Revolution with
their next subscription renewal.
Which is essentially a paid cross-grade. It means that the next time I get
Hello Richard MacLemale and y'all,
Now, like I said... If I were to be able to trade
my 2.5 license right now for a Rev 2.0.1 license,
in an even trade, I would do it and Revolution
would have one more user. Revolution wouldn't
make any money off of me right now, but they're
not going to
What I was saying was this - If Revolution transferred my MetaCard 2.5
license, right now, to Revolution 2.0.1, for free, I would switch from
MetaCard development to Revolution development immediately and not look
back. Revolution is the future.
So you get a better IDE and a heap of
In this particular case, I can't argue that either proposition is at all unreasonable, but there is a simple way of looking at this: just imagine that Rev 2.1 (or 2.5, whatever the next major upgrade becomes) is "Metacard 3.0" when it comes out. Seeing as how the Metacard GUI will still be
Let's be realistic. If RunRev own the engine they can afford to wait until
you need a new Rev feature or some new feature of Panther breaks your apps.
Monte
MetaCard 2.5 runs awesome under Panther. :) Heh heh heh...
I feel that the odds of me, and some other MC developers, being Rev
Richard MacLemale wrote:
Like I said, it's a calculated gamble. RunRev is gambling that MetaCard
users will pay to upgrade MetaCard and then migrate, and they realize that
they're going to lose some folks (like me) at least temporarily, and maybe
forever, but they're willing to take that
WRT the engine I only see good things coming out of this. Engine wise
things will continue for the most part as they have for years, with Scott
carefuly reviewing everything, working on language features, and keeping
us on the straight and narrow. The only area where things will change
is our
I have a lot of respect for the folks at Revolution, but I chose to remain
with MetaCard for a reason. Revolution's interface is bloated and overly
complicated. There are some nice features, to be sure, but I chose MetaCard
over Revolution for the same reason that I chose AppleWorks over
I can program in MetaCard in my sleep (and often have.) The idea of
relearning a complicated interface and paying for the privilege
does nothing
for me. If Revolution wants the remaining hardcore MetaCard users, they
have one serious shot at it... They need to offer a FREE
cross-grade,
Features like activex, webkit/html, databases, xml, real tables, video
capture, Quartz, metal/drawers, SSL, xp look and feel, are not on a to-do
list but have been implemented,or are being implemented and will be
carefully integrated into the language with everyones input.
Great! XP look and
Richard MacLemale wrote:
I have a lot of respect for the folks at Revolution, but I chose to remain
with MetaCard for a reason. Revolution's interface is bloated and overly
complicated. There are some nice features, to be sure, but I chose MetaCard
over Revolution for the same reason that I
Amen, brother. But as a fellow disciple of the Church of MetaCard, note
that the prophet Raney is behind this move to the promised land.
And the prophet Raney, whom some call Scott, said unto the chosen ones Go
forth into this new land and multiply and I shall provide. ;-)
Cheers
Monte
My 2 cents...
The purchase is a great idea. In all honesty (and with all the respect due to Scott and his great efforts),
MC needed this badly! I've suggested many times to Scott to include some of my improved APIs, make MC more
professional looking.
First impression of MC is that it is not
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can anyone give us a difference list?
a summary:
MetaCard Revolution
Enginesame same
Both use the same engine; languages features,
speed etc. identical for both
IDE fast but spartan;
I wish I saw good things here. I wish I could believe. If I
embrace Rev, I see losing a year's productivity, just when I finally
got where I really want to be.
Nah, don't worry. You won't lose a thing; not any time, not any
money. I routinely work on the same stack, at the same time, in both
Steady now... There's been no mention of forced upgrade. If you don't want
to don't. Upgrade when you are ready or when you need a new engine feature.
Regards
Monte
It wasn't an issue of forced upgrade now, but of when the time comes,
the upgrade would be to * something else * .
Also, I'm not
If this is all you worry about, you can rest easy. I'll continue to
be a part of the engine development team for the foreseeable future,
and though my control over the direction of the technology and
management will be greatly diminished, I have complete confidence in
the team at Runtime
I too have not switched yet, but I know the time for me will be
sooner than later. We can all hold hands and jump together. :)
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
Thanks, Mark. It is good to have a friend :-)
Shari C
--
--Shareware Games for the Mac--
http://www.gypsyware.com
On 7/9/03 4:05 AM, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote,
Thank goodness it wasn't acquired by Micro$oft. ;)
Please... Don't even joke. Their first order of business would be to drop
Mac and Linux support and insert bugs...
From the FAQ on the press release page at
I have a different perspective from most people on this list and probably don't have a
right to a strong opinion on MC vs. RR but I figured I'd chime in anyway.
Irrepressible, you know.
I looked closely at both MC and RR when I decided to join the Revolution when it was
still in 1.1.1 release.
plot Basically, if Rev's single users educational
license is 99 per copy I can definitely have a chat
with the administration. However I have to show them
that deployable products will result. Since I've
published a couple of programs using metaCard in law
reviews I think this can be shown.
/plot
-Original Message-
From: Shari [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 9:07
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
If I am understanding this, in the future, if you took the Rev
engine, but replaced the stacks (Home, Help, Metacard
Shari wrote:
...I'm not sure where Rev stands on Metacard users, as far as
licensing agreements and so forth. Perhaps there should be a mailout
to all of us who have purchased Metacard, explaining the finer points
and how they affect us.
In my Blackjack game, I knew certain questions
On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 11:31 AM, Shari wrote:
We've got MC 2.5 now, with a full license; but how does that apply to
Rev 2.0? Merely downloding the latest version of Rev will still hold
developers to the ten-line limit. Right?
Do I hear a suggestion out there in the Rev world?
Does
Shari wrote:
Gosh, think of those of us whose license ran out. At least you can
*try* Rev for free, and make sure it really does run your projects
just as MC does. I would have pay just to find out. Not a happy
prospect.
At least with MC, if I did a paid upgrade, I would know that I was
Hi Shari,
Kinda reminds me of Apple/Windows. Apple had the better product, but
Billy was the marketing genius, and so snatched up the majority of
marketshare.
As someone who tried awfully hard to get Macs into Fortune 500 companies (I
carried a Mac Plus into TI and Compaq each day), it
Why not download the free running version that lasts for 30 days and
see how it goes?
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
That wouldn't tell me if it would successfully run the programs I *
just * released.
Shari C
--
--Shareware Games for the Mac--
http://www.gypsyware.com
I've been listening to this very interesting conversation. After thinking a
bit, I've decided this is a good thing...I've chronicled my journey with
Xtalk in order to prove a point. Sorry so long...
First my concerns...
When Charlie Jackson sold Silicon Beach (and SuperCard) to Aldus, I remember
(WARNING: This is a bit of a long rant and is probably of marginal interest unless you
are a programming language junkie or just interested in the history of our business.
You've been warned.)
Chipp Walters wrote:
But, the question is, will RR sellout? Meaning, what if Oracle or Adobe or
On 7/9/03 5:23 PM, Shari wrote:
Why not download the free running version that lasts for 30 days and
see how it goes?
That wouldn't tell me if it would successfully run the programs I * just
* released.
Why not? Why wouldn't it?
I think you should just try it. Download the latest free
Hi Dan!
1) Companies aren't in the mad acquistion mode in this economy -- and I
doubt this will turn around very soon;
That's not how I read things right now, Chipp. Oracle is
certainly in acquisition mode. Always is. They're trying a
hostile takeover of PeopleSoft as we speak. There
On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 03:23 PM, Shari wrote:
Why not download the free running version that lasts for 30 days and
see how it goes?
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
That wouldn't tell me if it would successfully run the programs I *
just * released.
Shari C
I am not sure I follow. You
Just went over to the RunRev site and saw this headline:
Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology
You can read all about it here:
http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html
How does everyone feel about this? I can see good and not-so-good things
(depending on how RunRev acts on this)...
Your
On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 03:15 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
Just went over to the RunRev site and saw this headline:
Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology
You can read all about it here:
http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html
How does everyone feel about this? I can see good and not-so-good
Just went over to the RunRev site and saw this headline:
Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology
You can read all about it here:
http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html
How does everyone feel about this? I can see good and not-so-good things
(depending on how RunRev acts on this)...
Your
Hi Shari
This change scares the dickens out of me.
If you hung on to HyperCard until only a year and a half ago then change
must be difficult for you. However, you will find that Rev 2.0.1 is quite
stable and the transition is a far smaller jump than the HC to MC one. I
imagine that if Raney
Recently, Ken Ray wrote:
How does everyone feel about this? I can see good and not-so-good things
(depending on how RunRev acts on this)...
From my standpoint, the biggest question I have is, how will Scott Raney and
MC Corp. continue to be involved?
Without knowing the details of the deal,
If you hung on to HyperCard until only a year and a half ago then change
must be difficult for you. However, you will find that Rev 2.0.1 is quite
stable and the transition is a far smaller jump than the HC to MC one. I
imagine that if Raney has been thinking about this for a while then he would
Shari wrote:
What happens to Metacard, impacts those who rely on it for their
bread and butter. I love xTalk languages. And was hoping/expecting
that Scott/Metacard would be around a long time so that I could use
it as my foundation.
There's a hint about the MC side of things in this quote
On 7/8/03 8:50 PM, Shari wrote:
I wish I saw good things here. I wish I could believe. If I embrace
Rev, I see losing a year's productivity, just when I finally got where I
really want to be.
Nah, don't worry. You won't lose a thing; not any time, not any money. I
routinely work on the same
On 7/8/03 9:18 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
So the combination of Rev's IDE pushing the engine harder for features we
can benefit from, and their demonstrated effectiveness in marketing, the
only thing not covered in the FAQ is what will happen to the MC IDE
Nope, that's in there too:
So the combination of Rev's IDE pushing the engine harder for features we
can benefit from, and their demonstrated effectiveness in marketing, the
only thing not covered in the FAQ is what will happen to the MC IDE
Isn't there a bit saying the MC IDE will be maintained by a group of
I did not intend to upgrade to another paid-for version of MC until I
got the next program out the door and producing income, which will
likely be next summer. Changing means money goes out. My money is
already spent for the next year, on moving from Mac Classic to Mac
OSX, having to
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 Shari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What happens to Metacard, impacts those who rely on it for their
bread and butter. I love xTalk languages. And was hoping/expecting
that Scott/Metacard would be around a long time so that I could use
it as my foundation.
If this is all
I'm glad you're still on board, Scott- and applaud your willingness to combine efforts with RunRev in expanding the Metacard/Rev community.
I'm not up for hosting a list, but count me in as a helper for the Metacard GUI: I'd love to see it kept up-to-date with the lastest versions of Rev without
Scott Raney wrote:
The first order of business will be to set up a mailing
list so that we can start discussions of how that group should be
organized and later, what changes to the UI everyone wants (and are
willing to contribute to!). That should help keep this list focused
on *using* the
On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 06:50 PM, Shari wrote:
Monte,
I haven't even transferred all of my apps to the OLD ide! I've
transfered two from HC to MC. And it took so long, I will not do the
others. I'm still working the kinks out of the two. Do that again?
No. The goal is to get
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