[meteorite-list] Pasamonte-B
I am seeking information about the so-called Pasamonte-B meteorite. This is not the 1933 Pasamonte polymict eucrite, but as I understand it, an ordinary chondrite, perhaps an L6. Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Oxygen isotopes
Hi Laurence and All: We are doing 16, 17, 18O on silicates from meteorites now by laser fluorination at UNM. Give us holler if you have something interesting! Best regards, Carl Agee PS: I agree -- for good data, lots of work and $$$ Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html Message: 15 Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 23:22:43 -0700 From: Laurence Garvie lgar...@cox.net Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite classification costs To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: b118e029-438b-4ae7-9af8-904cbe6b8...@cox.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The question comes up from time to time about the cost of classifying a meteorite and also regarding turn around time. The actual cost varies significantly depending on the type of meteorite. For example, base cost for an equilibrated OC 1) thin section $30 (the cheapest part of the process) 2) two hours on a microprobe $200 (machine costs at cheap university rates and not including the time to set up the probe which can take several hours) 3) operator cost are more difficult to assess but I would imagine their two hours on the probe plus another hour or two of putting the data together and submitting it - so lets say another $200 minimum So around $500. Now for an unquilibrated OC (since you need a good spread of Cr2O3 data) I would say at least eight hours on the probe so over $1000 Now if you need oxygen isotopes, then this by itself could easily cost $1000 (plus the $1000 for the rest of classification). But good luck finding a lab to run the 16,17,18O isotopes. Most isotope labs only run 16O and 18O. In reality, the true costs are not passed on to the owner of the stone, but instead are borne by the institute undertaking the work. Some classifiers will charge a nominal fee to cover probe time, but again that is a small fraction of what it would cost if you wanted probe work done in a lab at industrial rates. Turn around time - days to years depending on how interesting the stone is. Laurence CMS ASU -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NYT story
Since I am quoted in this article, here’s my reaction to it. The reporter seems very confused, in that he lumps together a story about the Gebel Kamil crater in Egypt and the legal meteorite trade (NWA) based primarily in Morocco. During the interview with him I spent a fair amount of time trying to explain to him how beneficial the NWA’s have been for planetary science research. For example, I mentioned how the number of rare Angrite meteorites has more than doubled due to African finds – a huge enhancement to our understanding of the early solar system, and of course I mentioned all the lunars and martians, and other rare classes. I told him that I was not terribly well informed about the Gebel Kamil crater situation, but in my opinion the highest priority would be to protect the impact structure from degradation as these are quite rare on Earth. I also told him, that the Gebel Kamil meteorites on the other hand, are probably not hard to come by, and I’m sure if I wanted to study one for research, I could get a sample at a reasonable price or even get one as a donation from a collector, which museums benefit from frequently. I did get the feeling that he was hoping to hear something negative from me. As such he ended the interview rather quickly, but said something like “oh, the NWA meteorites sounds like an interesting story, I need to come back to that at a later time”. So of course I was disappointed to see what mess the final NYT version was. -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs and Meteorites
My take on this is the following. Most people who come to us with a suspect meteorite are for some reason expecting that identification costs us nothing, and that we can glance at sample and give quick answer. So when they go to an average geology department and get a free meteorite screening they may often get what they pay for -- someone's best guess -- often of dubious merit. Of course there are many samples that are so obviously meteorwrongs that a quick glance is all that is needed. But - I would never tell someone they have an iron meteorite before I had at least run an EDS analysis on it for Fe and Ni. And that's just the start -- if you want to know what kind of an iron -- well that's a lot more work still! But of course not everyone has an SEM in their basement. And guess what? These instruments cost money, and the technicians who keep them running are paid salaries. As for stones, yes, I can tell you fairly quickly, running a calibrated electron microprobe, if your sample is a eucrite, ureilite, lunar, martian -- or a just terrestrial basalt. So this is the dilemma that we often face: definitive answers usually take time, money, and expertise -- there is no free lunch for good data. -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Density of iron at high pressure
Eric is right, this high density can be explained by the effect of very high pressures on pure solid iron in a planet 1.6 times the diameter of the Earth . Of course, nothing is pure in nature, so there is presumably Ni, Co, S, O, and C in the mix. The light elements offset the dense iron. If there are high temperatures in the planet, then thermal expansion offsets volume decrease by the pressure to some extent. How did this iron rich planet form? Perhaps similar to Mercury, which may have lost most of its silicate mantle in an early giant impact. Dense planets of gold, lead, and uranium are ruled out simply based on the abundance of the elements in the universe. Or else this is the largest ore deposit in the neighborhood! :) What would be really interesting is to know the density distribution in this planet, which cannot be determined without knowing its moment of inertia. Carl Agee Sterling wrote: A planet of 75% iron with a 25% crust of Tungsten would have a density of 11, and I suppose that if everything less refractory than tungsten had boiled away, you could get such a planet... Those densities are for items sitting on your desk. The iron core of earth has a density of almost 13gm/cm^3 out to 1000km. Over the next 2000km the density drops to around 11gm/cm^3. I would imagine if this planet is 1.6 times the diameter of earth the 11+gm/cm^3 would extend even farther from the center. Additionally if most of the lighter elements have boiled away leaving a mostly iron and refractory element sphere, the 11+gm/cm^3 could comprise a significant portion of the sphere with the center being very dense. In other words it probably doesn't need an exotic mix to get to this density. The core of a gas giant boiled away (as Sterling mentioned) to the iron and refractory elements would probably do just fine. -- Eric Olson 610 W. Moore Rd Tucson AZ 85755 -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mercury data
Of course it's still early days on understanding the Mercury data coming back from Messenger, but I think there are a few simple things that can be said about the two geochemical graphs that were part of the press release. The major element graph of Al/Si versus Mg/Si clearly shows that the measured Mercurian surface is similar to basaltic and mantle rocks from the Earth. They plot along the Earth array and look to be a bit more olivine-rich than mid-ocean ridge basalts, but not as olivinerich as mantle peridotites, perhaps more like Archean Earth komatiites. The measured Mercurian surface is NOT delpleted in aluminum, like Martian basalts or Angrites. Also, Messenger is clearly not measuring rocks like the lunar anorthositic highlands. The major element that is still missing from this puzzle is iron. The data do not say anything about the FeO content of the Mercurian surface -- this is a pretty big deal, and until that is known it will difficult to know exactly what we are looking at -- let alone if there is a match for any known meteorite type. The potassium/thorium plot shows that Mercury is a lot like the other terrestrial planets in terms of volatile element content. It seems to be closest to the K/Th of Mars which is quite surprising, since Mars is thought to be the most volatile rich of the rocky planets. This runs counter to the idea that the inner solar system is chemically zoned with volatile elements concentrated out at Mars and lower in towards the Sun. But who knows? Maybe Mercury formed farther from the Sun and migrated inwards. There was a brief mention of substantial amounts of sulfur, but no data in the multimedia press release, so it would be interesting to know what they mean by substantial amounts. Also, why do they think it is in the form of sulfide and not sulfate? See how important these missions of planetary exploration are and how fragmentary our understanding is? Just my opinion Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury data
Carl: My guess is that the FeO data are not ready for primetime. As I understand it the XPS and the GRS on Messenger both will produce data on FeO. So I guess we will just have to wait until more information trickles out through press releases. The good stuff will probably be presented in a special session at some high profile meeting like AGU or LPSC, which are months away – perhaps a Science or Nature issue will be coming out earlier. I think most people will not be surprised if the Mercurian surface is low in FeO. That’s what reflectance spectroscopy is already suggesting. I can think of a very low FeO achondrite that is sitting in our museum – about a ton of it! But seriously, I think that Mercury should also have ages that are not all ~4.5 Ga, more like the range in lunar basalts, so that’s an important thing to consider. A word of caution about the global datasets taken from orbit: remember that so far no shergottite basalts have been seen with Mars orbital remote sensing, the global compositions are summations of very large areas and are not like looking at a geologists outcrop, let alone a nice martian meteorite hand sample. Carl Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 5:33 PM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Carl., Thank you so much for this very good information. So, If as you say the FeO is such a big deal. Why then would they have neglected to mention it if they found it? Is it possible Mercury is extremely depleted in FeO? I mean how could they miss it if it's there? And if it's not there. What kind of basalt would that match? Thank you. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Of course it's still early days on understanding the Mercury data coming back from Messenger, but I think there are a few simple things that can be said about the two geochemical graphs that were part of the press release. The major element graph of Al/Si versus Mg/Si clearly shows that the measured Mercurian surface is similar to basaltic and mantle rocks from the Earth. They plot along the Earth array and look to be a bit more olivine-rich than mid-ocean ridge basalts, but not as olivinerich as mantle peridotites, perhaps more like Archean Earth komatiites. The measured Mercurian surface is NOT delpleted in aluminum, like Martian basalts or Angrites. Also, Messenger is clearly not measuring rocks like the lunar anorthositic highlands. The major element that is still missing from this puzzle is iron. The data do not say anything about the FeO content of the Mercurian surface -- this is a pretty big deal, and until that is known it will difficult to know exactly what we are looking at -- let alone if there is a match for any known meteorite type. The potassium/thorium plot shows that Mercury is a lot like the other terrestrial planets in terms of volatile element content. It seems to be closest to the K/Th of Mars which is quite surprising, since Mars is thought to be the most volatile rich of the rocky planets. This runs counter to the idea that the inner solar system is chemically zoned with volatile elements concentrated out at Mars and lower in towards the Sun. But who knows? Maybe Mercury formed farther from the Sun and migrated inwards. There was a brief mention of substantial amounts of sulfur, but no data in the multimedia press release, so it would be interesting to know what they mean by substantial amounts. Also, why do they think it is in the form of sulfide and not sulfate? See how important these missions of planetary exploration are and how fragmentary our understanding is? Just my opinion Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Stones with High Troilite, Low Metal
Hi Pete, What about an LL -- with some desert weathering? The low-low metal can be converted to small Fe-oxides or veins. I recently classified Northwest Africa 6588 (LL6-an), that had only trace amounts of Fe-Ni metal. The ubiquitous sulfides present are pendlandite and stoichiometric pyrite. See metsoc 2011 abstract: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2011/pdf/5418.pdf Are you sure the sulfide is all troilite? Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html - Message: 13 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 00:31:45 -0400 From: Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stones with High Troilite, Low Metal To: mexicod...@aim.com, meteoritem...@gmail.com, meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: bay153-w42304efe707206467a6876f8...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Thank you all for your responses. You're right, Doug, too ambiguous a question. I have an unclassified NWA, which I've sliced and polished. There are so many interesting features that it is the type that you never get tired of looking at under the microscope. It has what appears to be the remains of transformed chondrules; four total in about 2cm^2 surface. Three look like bit-remains of brecciated chondrules, grey and white. The other looks like a typical barred chondrule that has become completely crystallised, and has the schiller effect. A very fine grained matrix, no observable free metal as in nickel/iron, and what *appears* to be typical troilite scattered throughout. Low attraction to a neodymium magnet. The fusion crust is relatively fresh, with no chert. Quite different from the others I've got, so I was hoping to read and possibly view images of similar. As I said, there are no silver metal flecks, only the dull yellow troilite-looking areas. Is it possible for nickel/iron to have this appearance, too? I had mentally eliminated that due to the low magnet attraction, but I've got lots to learn. Cheers, Pete __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Apollo Moon Rock Collection
Having been in charge of the Apollo Collection as well as the other collections at NASA Johnson Space Center (JSC) from 1998-2002, here is my take on this discussion. One of the main goals of curation at JSC is preserving the collection for posterity and for future study with instruments not yet imagined or by scientists not yet born. The Moon rocks are treated like a national treasure. As many of you may know, the curation protocols at JSC are the gold standard for extraterrestrial sample handling. For example, the collection is kept in high purity nitrogen, only materials restricted to of short list of aluminum, stainless steel, and Teflon are allow to touch the samples. The curation facility was built as a clean lab with positive air pressure, airlocks, and is operated by a highly trained staff. The Lunar Vault is built to withstand hurricanes, tornadoes, and floods -- and just to be on the safe side NASA has placed 15% of the collection at White Sands Test Facility, a few miles outside Las Cruces, New Mexico, locked away for safe keeping just in case of a catastrophic loss of the Lunar Lab in Houston. When people think about what a Mars Sample Return Lab design might look like, the first place they start from is the Lunar Sample Lab. Clearly, JSC does a fabulous job of handling, curating, and keeping the lunar samples safe, there is no museum or private collector in the world that comes close to Lunar Lab quality. However, the one thing that I think is missing from this facility is an equally spectacular public outreach component. Sure, the public can look at a few Moon rocks at museum displays here and there nationwide, but very few people ever get the privilege of being a visitor at the Lunar Lab. It is NOT open to the public. I think NASA, and JSC in particular, could enhance its image and boost public excitement and support for astromaterials research by somehow giving better public access to view these crown jewels in their laboratory setting. You may have guessed already that I'm not a big proponent of selling off the Moon Rocks to fund NASA missions, as a few people on the list have proposed. Even if Americans thought this was a good idea, I am pretty sure we would come up a few billion dollars short to do anything like a decent robotic Mars Sample Return. Furthermore, I doubt if many Americans would be in favor of cutting up pieces of the Declaration of Indepence or chunks of the Liberty Bell to sell as high priced souvenirs, or sell off tracts of Yellowstone Park to reduce our nation's debt. But I do think the Lunar Collection could be opened up to the public in away that would be beneficial to everyone, not the least to NASA itself. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Apollo Samples
Hi Phil: There are many scientists worldwide who study the Apollo samples, some of them right here in New Mexico! The samples can be requested through the Lunar Sample Curator at NASA JSC, Dr. Gary Lofgren. http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/sampreq/index.cfm The request (proposal) is then evaluated by The Curation and Analysis Planning Team for Extraterrestrial Materials (CAPTEM). CAPTEM oversees the care and distribution of all extraterrestrial samples collected by NASA. The Chair of the CAPTEM is appointed to a two year term by the NASA Administrator, currently held by Dr. Meenakshi Wadhwa from ASU. Most of the CAPTEM committee members are NOT NASA civil servants or contractors, they are mostly lunar experts from universities and research institutes. For more information see http://www.lpi.usra.edu/captem/ The Lunar Exploration Analysis Group (LEAG) is responsible for analyzing scientific, technical, commercial, and operational issues associated with lunar exploration in response to requests by NASA. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/leag/ Best regards, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html Message: 1 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 22:11:19 -0400 From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Subject: [meteorite-list] The Apollo Moon Rock Collection To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 3D27E97D2DB94C51BC6D4BBFB73CFFA7@ET Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original As far as I can tell, bulk Apollo lunar material is studied by the NASA Lunar Science Institute. The guys that do the hands on work are known as the Lunar Exploration and Analysis Group or LEAG. One of the scientists doing analysis of moon rocks here at the University of Notre Dame uses the new multiple-collector-inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometer or MC-ICP-MS to determine the mineral composition of lunar impact melts to determine their petrogenesis and place constraints on the impactors and target lithologies. http://lunarscience.arc.nasa.gov/ http://www.lpi.usra.edu/nlsi/teamMembers/bios.shtml Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Stones with High Troilite, Low Metal
Hi Pete, I sent you some email attachments with backscatter electron images of NWA 6588 done with our electron microprobe. Sorry, I need to find the time to put some photos on the EoM, but not yet registered! I'm am having our website and the IOM Meteorite Catalog upgraded right now, so many photos of our collection soon the come. In the photos that I sent, you can see the bright sulfides are actually two different minerals, usually in contact with each other. The pentlandite is Ni-rich iron sulfide and the pyrite is just iron sulfide (FeS2 pyrite formula, not FeS troilite). The image Relict Chondrules 2 shows a lower magnification of the overall microscopic texture of NWA 6588. All the bright spots are sulfide. You can see the porphyritic olivine chondrule in the upper right and the in the lower left is part of a barred olivine chondrule. Because of the small size of the sulfides, the best way to determine which iron sulfide(s) is present is by electron microprobe quantitative analysis or by EDS on and SEM. I was actually quite surprised when NWA 6588 turned out not to have troilite! Best regards, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com wrote: Dear Carl, Doug, and List, Carl, your classification of NWA 6588 reads very close to this one! Thank you for that link. Am I sure the sulfide in mine is all troilite? Absolutely not. Is there a test for it that I can do? I'm only going by my experience of what I've seen in books, the net, and the classifieds and non-classifieds that I have here. The lack of obvious nickel or iron and (what I think is) lots of troilite is what piqued my interest enough to ask if there was similar out there. You indicated in your classification that this was indeed unusual. Since there aren't any photos of NWA 6588 online yet, I'd appreciate your viewing these of mine: http://tiny.cc/ymksq http://tiny.cc/ymksq https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=B8A3E8CAAAC69704id=B8A3E8CAAAC69704%21114sc=documents in case the tiny doesn't work. Anything that appears reflective, white, or gold coloured is what I suspect is troilite. The sulfide appears to be sprinkled into individual grains further away from concentrated areas. I didn't try to Photoshop the true colour back in, but a dark khaki grey is more accurate for the matrix. As with any meteorite, the pictures don't do the actual beauty justice ;)! Cheers, Pete Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 06:47:53 -0600 From: a...@unm.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Stones with High Troilite, Low Metal Hi Pete, What about an LL -- with some desert weathering? The low-low metal can be converted to small Fe-oxides or veins. I recently classified Northwest Africa 6588 (LL6-an), that had only trace amounts of Fe-Ni metal. The ubiquitous sulfides present are pendlandite and stoichiometric pyrite. See metsoc 2011 abstract: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2011/pdf/5418.pdf Are you sure the sulfide is all troilite? Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html - Message: 13 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 00:31:45 -0400 From: Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stones with High Troilite, Low Metal To: mexicod...@aim.com, meteoritem...@gmail.com, meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: bay153-w42304efe707206467a6876f8...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Thank you all for your responses. You're right, Doug, too ambiguous a question. I have an unclassified NWA, which I've sliced and polished. There are so many interesting features that it is the type that you never get tired of looking at under the microscope. It has what appears to be the remains of transformed chondrules; four total in about 2cm^2 surface. Three look like bit-remains of brecciated chondrules, grey and white. The other looks like a typical barred chondrule that has become completely crystallised, and has the schiller effect. A very fine grained matrix, no observable free metal as in nickel/iron, and what *appears* to be typical troilite scattered throughout. Low attraction to a neodymium magnet. The fusion crust is relatively fresh, with no chert. Quite different from the others I've got, so I was hoping to read and possibly view
[meteorite-list] New Scientist Interview
A refreshing change from NYT et al., New Scientist is usually pretty good. http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128190.200-meteorite-hunter-my-two-months-in-an-omani-jail.html?full=true -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Geophysics, meteorites, and Electron microscopy
A scanning electron microscope (SEM) is great for high magnification images that also contain information about the chemical composition of the different minerals in meteorites. SEM is also a quick way to do a qualitative analysis of a sample, say for example, detecting nickel in iron meteorites with energy dispersive spectroscopy (EDS). My instrument of choice for definitive ID of stony meteorites is the electron microprobe. This also has SEM imaging capability. In less the hour, on a calibrated electron microprobe, I can make a definitive ID, although unequilbrated chondrites can take more time to narrow down the possibilities. Some of the key geochemical quantities that help in categorizing are, Fe/Mn of olivines and pyroxenes, the fayalite and ferrosilite content of the olivines and pyroxenes, the anorthite-albite content of plagioclse, and a few other parameters, plus the percent mineralogy and other textural characteristics. So for a simple example lunar olivines usually have higher Fe/Mn than terrestrial basalt olivines. Check out this page's second figure for an overview of Fe/Mn versus plagioclase content of planetary basalts: http://www.imca.cc/mars/martian-meteorites.htm Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html l-- Geophysics, meteorites, and Electron microscopy Barb and Jake Baker bakers5acres at frontiernet.net Tue Sep 6 10:50:46 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] [AD] Canyon Diablo 2,7 kg. CHEAP! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Could someone tell me, in Microscopy 101 language: How is an electron microscope used in the study of meteorites? Using electron microscopy - what differences are apparent between meteorites and terrestrial rocks? For instance what are the microscopy differences between lunar basalt and terrestrial basalt? Thanks __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Geophysics, meteorites, and Electron microscopy-QUESTION
Hi Shawn, It's actually the electron microprobe that gives the quantitative analyses needed for classification of stony meteorites. The data is usually output in tables of oxide component concentrations in weight percent, totalling hopefully, to approximately 100%. The microprobe software lets you select which elements (expressed as oxides) to analyze and assign the element to one of the probe's spectrometers. The software will also give atomic concentrations to check for mineral stoichiometry. For metals and sulfides the output is usually in element percent. Calibration of the probe against known standards (minerals or compounds similar to what are in your meteorite) precedes the microprobe session and can take several hours. Once the probe is calibrated, you are good to go on your first unknown meteorite that would normally be in a polished thin section or polished epoxy-cast probe mount. Because the calibration is time consuming it is economical to do several samples in a single session. Sessions can go on for hours, and you can even set up a collection of x-y coordinates and let the auto-feature of the probe analyze different spots all night long. In the morning a stack of data would be be waiting for your perusal and evaluation. Of course there are other tests and analyses that contribute to a high quality meteorite classification, which include visual textural information from both polarizing microscope and SEM observation (e.g. shock effects, percent mineral make-up, weathering), and of course macroscopic characteristics seen in the hand sample. Oxygen isotopes are also great to have, especially as a court of appeals for borderline cases or for anomalous meteorites that don't fall into clear-cut geochemical groups. There are many other techniques such as isotopic age dating, cosmic ray exposure, bulk trace element analyses, and so on that enhance the characterization of a stony meteorite, but the electron microprobe is the work horse for most classification data. Someone who has done work on Ensisheim (LL6) and Saint-Séverin (LL6) could give a better answer that I can about the their subtle differences and whether the microprobe can distinguish between them, but my guess would be yes, especially when combined with SEM imaging. The length of time for classification from start to finish, including the write-up is variable. The initial ID or categorization of an unknown doesn't have to take long, that's what emerges in the first hour or so of microprobe analysis. But often, for a water-tight, authoritative classification, a second probe session may be required. Plus a lot of the time is spent puuzzling through the data and narrowing down the possibilities. It's like detective work, and personally I find it immensely engaging. Hope this helps, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html - On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Carl and Listers Great post on scanning electron microscope (SEM) process, now does this process also ID the whole classification of the meteorite which is used for classifying meteorite for the Meteoritcal Bulletin database? I know alot of school are discontinuing classifying meteorites is UNM also doing the same? Question if someone wanted this service to be done on a meteorite, how much would it cost, cause these days money talks and helps everyone out when it comes to classifying meteorites or confirming that the meteorite is the meteorite suggested to be. Also can this process determine the difference between Ensisheim (LL6) and Saint-Séverin (LL6) by the cosmic ray exposure or terrestrial age. These two meteorites look identical and some can fake it. Does SEM also cover that test or is that a different test? Lastly how long does it take for you to classify a new meteorite from start to finish if its a stony meteorite? Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Geophysics, meteorites, and Electron microscopyCarl Agee agee at unm.edu Tue Sep 6 12:27:18 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Geophysics, meteorites, and Electron microscopy Next message: [meteorite-list] FW: High Noon! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] A scanning electron microscope (SEM) is great for high magnification images that also contain information about the chemical composition of the different minerals in meteorites. SEM is also a quick way to do a qualitative analysis of a sample, say for example, detecting nickel in iron meteorites with energy
Re: [meteorite-list] Geophysics, meteorites, and Electron microscopy-QUESTION
Shawn, A probe mount can be much less than a gram but it depends on the texture of the sample. For example, I just finished some preliminary work on a new unclassified shergottite and had separated out a ~0.4 gram fragment for various tests, and used only about a third of that for the probe mount because it has a uniform grain size and is pretty homogeneous. If I am working on a polymict breccia, like a howardite, larger and multiple fragments may be needed. The ideal case is if you buy a polished thin section to go along with your hand sample, that way you don't have to mess with your display piece. The probe mounts/thin sections can also be used for ion probe work or laser ablation ICPMS which are both great for trace elements, and of course SEM for great images. Tell Santa he can pick up a new Cameca or JEOL electron probe for under $1M. The scientists are cheaper -- haha! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Carl and Anne and Listers. Carl thank you for your explanation on SEM analysis. As for testing meteorites I assume they have to be a thin slice from what I had read. Now are there other tests where you can take 30mg of the meteorite and get the same result? But I would assume this would be destructive process because the fragment might have to be crushed up into power form. If this is the case, what equipment would be involved or process and is it more feasible to have the specimen in a thin section form. Why I ask is that some meteorites are super rare, and in order to have a SEM test, one must have a thin slice and from my understanding that takes about a gram or so of the meteorite in order for that to happen. Not good for the meteorite nor for the collection it comes from if its rare. As for the electron microscopy I asked Santa for one and also a scientist. I hope I have been good enough this year to get one in my stocking. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Geophysics, meteorites, and Electron microscopy-QUESTIONCarl Agee agee at unm.edu Thu Sep 8 09:36:36 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Geophysics, meteorites, and Electron microscopy-QUESTION Next message: [meteorite-list] Ad and new website announcement Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hi Shawn, It's actually the electron microprobe that gives the quantitative analyses needed for classification of stony meteorites. The data is usually output in tables of oxide component concentrations in weight percent, totalling hopefully, to approximately 100%. The microprobe software lets you select which elements (expressed as oxides) to analyze and assign the element to one of the probe's spectrometers. The software will also give atomic concentrations to check for mineral stoichiometry. For metals and sulfides the output is usually in element percent. Calibration of the probe against known standards (minerals or compounds similar to what are in your meteorite) precedes the microprobe session and can take several hours. Once the probe is calibrated, you are good to go on your first unknown meteorite that would normally be in a polished thin section or polished epoxy-cast probe mount. Because the calibration is time consuming it is economical to do several samples in a single session. Sessions can go on for hours, and you can even set up a collection of x-y coordinates and let the auto-feature of the probe analyze different spots all night long. In the morning a stack of data would be be waiting for your perusal and evaluation. Of course there are other tests and analyses that contribute to a high quality meteorite classification, which include visual textural information from both polarizing microscope and SEM observation (e.g. shock effects, percent mineral make-up, weathering), and of course macroscopic characteristics seen in the hand sample. Oxygen isotopes are also great to have, especially as a court of appeals for borderline cases or for anomalous meteorites that don't fall into clear-cut geochemical groups. There are many other techniques such as isotopic age dating, cosmic ray exposure, bulk trace element analyses, and so on that enhance the characterization of a stony meteorite, but the electron microprobe is the work horse for most classification data. Someone who has done work on Ensisheim (LL6) and Saint-Séverin (LL6) could give a better answer that I can about the their subtle differences and whether the microprobe can
[meteorite-list] Friable meteorites surviving in big pieces
Perhaps not as friable as a Tagish Lake or some others, but it seems miraculous that the 1-ton Norton County aubrite remained more or less intact! This is largest achondrite mass in the world. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Are Mars Meteorites Magnetic?
Hi Eric, Yes, but not from native iron-nickel, which is normally absent in SNCs, instead from ferrimagnetic minerals such as pyrrhotite Fe7S8 and magnetite Fe3O4. Carl Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html -- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 14:47:08 -0700 From: e...@meteoritesusa.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Are Mars Meteorites Magnetic? To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 20120103144708.echrwye0gs8oo...@webmail.meteoritesusa.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp=Yes; format=flowed Are Mars meteorites magnetic at all? Apologies if this question has been hashed out before, but I'm very curious. I know some Lunar meteorites have visible free iron, and very slight noticeable magnetism, but, I don't know about Mar meteorites. Thanks in advance for answers. Regards, Eric -- __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The IOM Sikhote Alin is back in our possession
Incredibly, today we took possession of our Sikhote Alin specimen that was stolen out of the the Institute of Meteoritics museum over the holiday break. Tomorrow it will be flying home with one of our staff as carry-on, and a UNM police escort will be waiting at the Albuquerque Sunport to bring it back to the main campus. This speedy recovery could not have happened without the generous help of some amazing people in the meteorite community. I will give a full account of this whole story soon, and praise those who were instrumental in the recovery, but there is still an ongoing police investigation, so the details will probably have to wait until next week. Happy New Year! -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] IOM meteorite catalog back online
We have migrated our website over to a new server and now our IOM meteorite database is available online once again! It is now web browser-based, so in principle easier to use, but there are still a few bugs. Best viewed I am told with Firefox or Chrome. See link below. Unfortunately the catalog entries still need some updating, so what you see is not necessarily exactly what we have, and there are new entries that need to be added. http://meteorite.unm.edu/meteorites/meteorite-catalog/ -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Wanted: Meteorites from Mercury
Sterling makes some good points. The other thing besides trapped atmospheric gases that make the SNC's planetary is their relatively young igneous crystallization ages (except for ALH84001) -- indicating geologically long-lived volcanism on a large parent body. All angrites have ancient crystallization ages, in fact SAH99555 has perhaps the oldest crystallization age of any igneous rock in the known solar system. It is assumed that a body of Mercurian size would have at least a billion years of igneous activity and probably longer (like the Moon). If so it might take several 10's of millions of years to form a permanent crust from which to derive meteorites. Hence the zero age of angrites do not fit this picture well, more likely a smaller body, but not definitive. On the other hand, neither do the aubrites. As much as I would like our low-FeO 1-ton Norton County aubrite to be a Mercurian meteorite, this also seems unlikely because of it ancient age ~4.55 BY. The color argument is a tricky one because we have no idea what causes the Mercurian regolith to be darker than say an aubrite, and this is because of the intense stream of solar wind on rock surfaces which may have a huge on surface coloration. Another thing to remember is that none of the orbiters at Mars have ever spotted a terrain on the martian that is exactly the same as SNC meteorites, so based just on orbital data you would never know SNCs are from Mars -- dust coating is a big problem. There probably isn't as much dust on Mercury, but keep in mind that the interpretation of spectral data from orbit is as much art as it is science and ground-truth calibrations are hard to come by, so knowing the Sun's interaction with the Mercurian regolith maybe just as problematic. This is definitely a work in progress! Of course a NASA sample return mission would be my recommendation! I'm not picky, Mercury, Venus, Mars... Carl Agee --- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 15:44:26 -0600 From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wanted: Meteorites from Mercury To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com, Stuart McDaniel actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Cc: baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov, meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 8C3C0F61ACE547BAA3F7E2510550BA80@ATARIENGINE2 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Hi, You may or may not remember that what made possible the positive identification of Martian meteorites AS Martian meteorites was that we had samples from the Martian surface. No, not rock samples, nor any returned samples, but the isotopic composition of rare gases in the Martian atmosphere, which made a distinctive and unusual signature (particularly for Argon). The SNC's shared this unique signature. It was like a fingerprint. And possible only because we had a lander on the surface.. Mercury has no atmosphere of any consequence and we have no lander there. It's always possible that our present sensing capacity will turn up something as definite, but I can't think of what it could be. Believe me, I've tried. Sterling K. Webb -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Classification Question - Instruments
Hi Robert, The electron microprobe is the instrument of choice for quantitative analyses of major elements of silicate minerals like olivine. SEM is great for qualitative analyses, quickly to see what elements are present - energy dispersive spectroscopy is nice technique to screen iron meteorites unknowns for example. As I understand it the XPS is used primarily imaging like an SEM, also chemical mapping. The ion beam instrument is a fabulous state-of-the-art device for imaging at very high resolution and can be used for micro- nano-milling and manipulation. These last two are amazing research tools, but not really what you need, right off the bat, for basic classification work. You must be at a very high-powered research facility! Carl Agee -- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:10:54 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Beauford robertbeauf...@rocketmail.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Classification Question - Instruments To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 1326489054.80741.yahoomail...@web111002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 As I recall, there are several people on the list that actively classify meteorites, so I'm hoping one of you will be patient with a question that may be profoundly ignorant. I have access, in house, to a?FEI Nova Nanolab 200 Dual-Beam Focused Ion Beam or a?PHI VersaProbe XPS instrument, (along with SEM and TEM) but not to a working electron microprobe or, ironically, the equipment to make thin sections.? I am not very familiar with the XPS or ion beam instrument.? Can I get the necessary olivine composition ratio to achieve classification of a chondrite with the XPS probe or the ion beam?or do I need to go somewhere?and use a proper electron microprobe?? I would be truly grateful if any of you would take the time to advise. Thanks so much, -Robert?? -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Some facts about the Sikhote-Alin theft at UNM
Some facts about the Sikhote-Alin theft at UNM I have waited to tell the whole story of the Sikhote-Alin meteorite theft at UNM, as I know it, because there is an ongoing criminal investigation, so all the facts about the theft are still not in yet. But because I have done a TV interview and the story appeared on the front page of the Albuquerque Journal, and was distributed world-wide by the Associated Press, plus a follow up interview was done by Tim Heitz for the St. Louis Dispatch-Post, I felt it was time to publicly praise the people who were key in the safe recovery and return of the Sikhote-Alin to the Institute of Meteoritics (IOM). A full account of this story will be forthcoming when the criminal investigation is completed. Here is a highly abridged preview of just the early recovery efforts. The Sikhote-Alin was stolen from its display case, during public opening hours sometime before Christmas break, the exact day is unknown to me, hopefully this fact will be revealed by the accused thief during the trial. I discovered the theft on New Year’s Day, when I was giving Michael Farmer a private tour of the Meteorite Museum. Michael had come to the IOM to show me some specimens of the new martian fall, Tanzrou. As I was showing Michael the museum displays, moving from case-to-case, I came upon a display where the Sikhote-Alin should have been – but it was empty, not even the label was there, the specimen stand was tipped over. To make a long story short, we contacted the UNM police, they took fingerprints, and eventually we all went home. That evening I contacted Anne Black, Vice President of IMCA, and she immediately offered to distribute an archival photo of our Sikhote-Alin with a report of its theft on the internet. Then I went to bed, and when I looked at my email inbox in the morning I saw several emails from Michael Farmer and Michael Johnson, sent in the middle of the night, basically saying that they had information about the whereabouts of our Sikhote-Alin. Michael Johnson recognized the photo that Michael Farmer had posted on his Facebook page as the same Sikhote-Alin Tim Heitz had asked him about, concerning the value of the same sample, over the Christmas holidays. I then contacted the UNM police that morning, and they contacted Tim Heitz. He confirmed that he was in possession of the UNM Sikhote-Alin and would hold it safe for us. Again, to make a long story short, I chose to send my administrative Lee Ann Lloyd to St. Louis to retrieve the Sikhote-Alin from Tim Heitz and we had our specimen back at the IOM by Friday, January 6. The outcome of this theft was incredibly good, and I am extremely grateful to everyone who helped in the recovery effort. Again the story is not completely played out, nor have I mentioned all the details yet, but my deepest thanks to the quick, decisive action, on New Years Day, by Anne Black, Michael Farmer and Michael Johnson! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Tata-Foumzgit Martian Fall. The most significant fall of this century?
Of course time will tell how significant. But here are a few reasons why Tanzrou is important: It's a different lithology from Zagami, Nakhla, Shergotty, Chassigny. It has large olivine phenocrysts -- you don't even need a microscope to see them. Zagami and Shergotty are pretty similar to reach other from a petrologic perspective, so not just another one like those two. There may or may not be a similar olivine-phyric SNC finds in the world's collections. It has glassy melt pockets, I'm not talking just maskelynite, which it has plenty of too. You can see these glass pockets with the naked eye, so they are big and plentiful, and are great for holding trapped gas and other goodies from Mars, that don't end up in mineral crystal lattices. It is has minimal terrestrial weathering. This is great for these of us who want to know something about martian volatiles, the martian water cycle, knowing what you are measuring is real martian water-- not terrestrial -- that's important. Also the astrobiologists will be drooling (hopefully not on the sample -- haha!) to look for organics, knowing that anything thing they find is probably martian -- especially from the interior of a nice complete stone. There is enough to go around (at least for right now). There is plenty of material for destructive analyses, plenty for thin sections, plenty for museum displays, and plenty for collectors. I will set aside some of our Tanzrou for posterity in the IOM collection, not to be touched or tampered with. Fifty or a hundred years from now it will be much scarcer, and maybe someone will be happy that I did! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ - Message: 1 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 12:09:11 -0500 From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Tata-Foumzgit Martian Fall. The most significant fall of this century? To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: cakbpjw_ysvr8jz7peh_bcc1av0vgcj9wujnjutyrt9dsruc...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi List, Would it be safe to say, that the new Martian Tata fall is the most significant meteorite fall of the 21st century, and perhaps of the last 50+ years? All things considered, this has the makings of a very significant event for science. This is the most pristine sample of Mars to arrive in labs for a long time, if ever. Even the freshest NWA finds cannot compare to fresh stones collected less than a year after the fall. The unbroken stones and larger fragments will supply science with unaltered, unoxidixed material for research. This new Martian is going to be widely studied, so I hope everyone is getting their microprobes warmed up in anticipation. Word has it that institutions and museums have been allocated a sizeable amount of material in terms of trades and donations, so there appears to be plenty of it available for study. It is safe to say that this new meteorite (whatever the official name turns out to be) will appear in a lot of papers and journals over time. For science, this is the next best thing to a manned sample-return mission. For collectors this is best thing since sliced bread. The only thing that could have made this fall better, from a collector's standpoint, is if a stone had bounced off a Bedouin tent and struck a camel in the hump. But, you can't have your cake and eat it too. ;) So, what is the going consensus on the details of this fall? Nickname - Tata or Foumzgit (mostly Tata) TKW - several kilograms, probably less than 10kg. Much of this is in the form of large whole stones and large broken stones and that material has been absorbed into collections and is not likely to return to the market. Ballpark figure of material to be available eventually on the collector market is probably a few kilos (2-3kg?) Date of fall - July of 2011 (certain), actual date - July 25, 2011? Other reports say earlier in July (13-15?) Time of fall - day or night? (night?) Type - Shergottite, shocked, silver-grey matrix with black shock veins. Glossy fresh black fusion crust. Misc - witness reports include an audible explosion and popping sounds. Does all of that sound about right? * Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone *** __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list
[meteorite-list] Tissint article on space.com
http://www.space.com/14268-rare-mars-meteorite-rocks-tissint.html -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NPR Science Friday and other radio
http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/201201203 Chris Herd from U. Alberta and Chair of the MetSoc Nomenclature Committee will be a guest on NPR's Science Friday tomorrow discussing Tissint. For those of you in Africa, I just finished a pre-recorded interview with BBC Focus on Africa (news and current affairs) that goes on air at 17h gmt. Enjoy! -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NPR Science Friday and other radio
Fun interview, but I still don't know how I ended up on the team of 8 who determined the sample was from Mars! That inaccuracy was apparently from an interview I did with a french news service yesterday and has now propagated. Of course the team was led by Tony Irving and Chris Herd. All I did was acquire Tissint for our collection! Carl Agee On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 11:40 AM, karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de wrote: Hello Carl and list, The BBC 'Focus on Africa' interview can be heard here now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/emp/pop.shtml?p=/worldservice/meta/tx/flash/focusonafrica.xmll=ent=audio The interview is at the very end of the broadcast. Thank you for the information, Carl! Best wishes Martin Von: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu An: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] NPR Science Friday and other radio Datum: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:43:03 +0100 http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/201201203 Chris Herd from U. Alberta and Chair of the MetSoc Nomenclature Committee will be a guest on NPR's Science Friday tomorrow discussing Tissint. For those of you in Africa, I just finished a pre-recorded interview with BBC Focus on Africa (news and current affairs) that goes on air at 17h gmt. Enjoy! -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] TISSINT OFFER TO RESEARCHERS / Re: Chris Herd talking about the Tissint meteorite - NPR 'Science Friday'
The Institute of Meteoritics has already distributed samples of our Tissint material to researchers at the Carnegie Institution for organics studies and to the Univ. of Tuebingen for magnetics measurements. That is one of the main goals of our Meteorite Museum -- to loan researchers our meteorites. The other main goals are to display meteorites for the public and preserve the collection for posterity. Luckily, we are fortunate to be able to do all three of these functions with our recent Tissint acquisition! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ [meteorite-list] TISSINT OFFER TO RESEARCHERS / Re: Chris Herd talking about the Tissint meteorite - NPR 'Science Friday' Michael Farmer mike at meteoriteguy.com Tue Jan 24 09:58:53 EST 2012 Previous message: [meteorite-list] TISSINT OFFER TO RESEARCHERS / Re: Chris Herd talking about the Tissint meteorite - NPR 'Science Friday' Next message: [meteorite-list] AD: E. Cohen - METEORITENKUNDE (3 Vol) Rare / E.L. Krinov / Principles Of Meteoritics (International series of monographs on earth sciences) / The Meteoritic Hypothesis: a Statement of the Results of a Spoectroscoopic Inquiry Into the Origin of Cosmical Systems Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] usually when i brag about how generous i am, it is when i donate samples for free, not sell them. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 24, 2012, at 5:17 AM, Darryl Pitt darryl at dof3.com wrote: ATTEMPTED TO POST PREVIOUSLY - RE: NPR INTERVIEW Hi, For those who inquired and those who have wondered, Chris Herd picked up the 58g specimen of Tissint of which he spoke on NPR from me. In the same spirit of my $325/g offer to Chris, let me now extend a similar offer to members of the Meteoritical Society who are either PhDs or doctoral students: I've set aside another 75g at $325/g should you desire samples of Tissint exclusively for research purposes. Please contact me off-list. All the best / Darryl On Jan 20, 2012, at 8:06 PM, Graham Ensor wrote: Excellentthanks Martin... On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:50 PM, karmaka karmaka-meteorites at t-online.de wrote: Addition: If you only want to listen to the relevant section of the broadcast, you can download it here now: http://pd.npr.org/anon.npr-mp3/npr/totn/2012/01/20120120_totn_03.mp3 Best wishes Martin Von: karmaka karmaka-meteorites at t-online.de An: met-list meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Chris Herd talking about the Tissint meteorite - NPR 'Science Friday' Datum: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 20:03:59 +0100 NPR's 'Science Friday' with Chris Herd of the University of Alberta talking about the Tissint meteorite can be listened to right now: http://www.sciencefriday.com/about/listen/ If you want to listen to it later, you can download it as a podcast here soon: http://www.sciencefriday.com/audio/scifriaudio.xml Best wishes Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] TISSINT OFFER TO RESEARCHERS / Re: Chris Herd talking about the Tissint meteorite - NPR 'Science Friday'
PS: I think a research discount for Tissint like what Darryl proposed is a welcome gesture. Some research groups want to have their own permanent specimens, substantial in quantity, and archival. In such cases it makes sense to purchase. When we loan material it is exactly that, on loan, and so must be returned with in 6 months to a year. Also, if you are performing destructive analyses of substantial quantities it's probably not good form to rely on loaned material, but to purchase your own as part of the research overhead. Thanks, Carl On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: The Institute of Meteoritics has already distributed samples of our Tissint material to researchers at the Carnegie Institution for organics studies and to the Univ. of Tuebingen for magnetics measurements. That is one of the main goals of our Meteorite Museum -- to loan researchers our meteorites. The other main goals are to display meteorites for the public and preserve the collection for posterity. Luckily, we are fortunate to be able to do all three of these functions with our recent Tissint acquisition! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ [meteorite-list] TISSINT OFFER TO RESEARCHERS / Re: Chris Herd talking about the Tissint meteorite - NPR 'Science Friday' Michael Farmer mike at meteoriteguy.com Tue Jan 24 09:58:53 EST 2012 Previous message: [meteorite-list] TISSINT OFFER TO RESEARCHERS / Re: Chris Herd talking about the Tissint meteorite - NPR 'Science Friday' Next message: [meteorite-list] AD: E. Cohen - METEORITENKUNDE (3 Vol) Rare / E.L. Krinov / Principles Of Meteoritics (International series of monographs on earth sciences) / The Meteoritic Hypothesis: a Statement of the Results of a Spoectroscoopic Inquiry Into the Origin of Cosmical Systems Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] usually when i brag about how generous i am, it is when i donate samples for free, not sell them. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 24, 2012, at 5:17 AM, Darryl Pitt darryl at dof3.com wrote: ATTEMPTED TO POST PREVIOUSLY - RE: NPR INTERVIEW Hi, For those who inquired and those who have wondered, Chris Herd picked up the 58g specimen of Tissint of which he spoke on NPR from me. In the same spirit of my $325/g offer to Chris, let me now extend a similar offer to members of the Meteoritical Society who are either PhDs or doctoral students: I've set aside another 75g at $325/g should you desire samples of Tissint exclusively for research purposes. Please contact me off-list. All the best / Darryl On Jan 20, 2012, at 8:06 PM, Graham Ensor wrote: Excellentthanks Martin... On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:50 PM, karmaka karmaka-meteorites at t-online.de wrote: Addition: If you only want to listen to the relevant section of the broadcast, you can download it here now: http://pd.npr.org/anon.npr-mp3/npr/totn/2012/01/20120120_totn_03.mp3 Best wishes Martin Von: karmaka karmaka-meteorites at t-online.de An: met-list meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Chris Herd talking about the Tissint meteorite - NPR 'Science Friday' Datum: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 20:03:59 +0100 NPR's 'Science Friday' with Chris Herd of the University of Alberta talking about the Tissint meteorite can be listened to right now: http://www.sciencefriday.com/about/listen/ If you want to listen to it later, you can download it as a podcast here soon: http://www.sciencefriday.com/audio/scifriaudio.xml Best wishes Martin -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Tissint and IOM on KNME-PBS
http://www.knme.org/connect/ The short QA is at minute 24 in the program clip. Enjoy! -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tissint and IOM on KNME-PBS
Hi Shaw All: The most recent findings will be reported at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, next month in Houston, by Irving et al. Here is the link to the session New Martian Meteorites and New Perspectives on Old Favorites: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2012/pdf/sess204.pdf It is still is early days. In the PBS segment they show some SEM images that we made of Tissint in our first exploratory electron microprobe session. Something that really impressed me with this meteorite are the very nice melt pools scattered throughout. These are not shocked maskelynite glass (that's there too), but true glass melt pockets decorated with very fine quench crystal boundaries. May or may not be formed by shock. Obviously the glass will be a target for studies of martian volatile compounds. The organics are also being studied. At this point the main attraction is the freshness of Tissint. This is particularly important because it makes it easier to interpret the data as a true witness of martian surface processes, not clouded by terrestrial contamination. Stay tuned.. Carl -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 10:27 PM, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Carl Listers, Carl thank you for providing the clip. I am excited to see that some science channels are talking about the Tissint fall. By chance have you found any new insights in the meteorite that haven't been seen in other Mars meteorite falls? Or is this still in the early phases of conducting experiments? Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/ph0t0phl0w/m.html? meteorite-list] Tissint and IOM on KNME-PBSCarl Agee agee at unm.edu Fri Feb 17 10:14:59 EST 2012 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day * Next message: [meteorite-list] New Met Bulletin additions * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] http://www.knme.org/connect/ The short QA is at minute 24 in the program clip. Enjoy! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tissint and IOM on KNME-PBS
Hi MikeG, Not a stupid question at all. As far as I know anyone can register to attend the LPSC. It is not by invitation only, but there is a fee for registration, here is the meeting webpage: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2012/ There are usually something like 2000 papers presented as talks or posters during the week. Of course the sessions tend to be technical, but some are fairly accessible, I often just drop in on session that is far outside my field out of curiosity and to learn something new. I would guess that the Tuesday and Thursday evening poster sessions would be great browsing for a meteorite/planetary science enthusiast. Carl -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carl and List, This is probably a stupid question, but I'm curious, so I have to ask. I know nothing about how meetings like the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference work. But I assume it is an invitation-only event for scientists. If a curious layman wanted attend such a meeting, would that be possible? Has a layman ever sat in on such a meeting and just quietly soaked up the presentations and lectures? Or, alternately, has a meeting like this ever been broadcast via streaming video on the web, or taped for viewing later by others who could not attend in person? I realize it would be a lot of video to watch, but I think it would be very interesting to watch something like this - even if I didn't fully understand much of what was being said. Best regards, MikeG -- * Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone *** __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Met Bulletin Approvals - new Czech meteorites
Hi Gary, Yes, 20 years seems a bit short for W3. I know it rains a lot in Czech Republic -- more than Roosevelt County!, but here are some estimates of the terrestrial ages of the weathering grades taken from Wlotzka, F., Meteoritics, vol. 28, no. 3, volume 28, page 460-460: A correlation between these weathering grades and the terrestrial ages was shown for meteorite finds from Roosevelt County, New Mexico [1]. In these climatic conditions the weathering grades W2 to W6 develop in the following times: W2, 5000 to 15,000 yr; W3, 15,000 to 30,000 yr; W4, 20,000 to 35,000 yr; W5 and W6, 30,000 to 45,000 yr. Similar terrestrial ages were found for chondrites of these weathering grades from the Lybian and Algerian Sahara [2,3]. Antarctic meteorite finds weather much more slowly. A check of 53 Antarctic ordinary chondrites (of hand specimen weathering categories A to C) showed only 9 of grade W2, the rest being W1. Among the W1s is ALHA77278 (category A) with a terrestrial age of 320,000 yr Best regards, Carl Agee PS: we don't what the climate was like in Roosevelt Co. 30,000 years ago, maybe it was wetter too! Message: 1 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 07:04:54 -1000 From: Gary Fujihara fuj...@mac.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Met Bulletin Approvals - new Czech meteorites To: Jan Woreczko - www.meteoritica.eu e...@biol.uw.edu.pl Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 6e6a9f8f-96ef-43a4-bd5a-f4be936ce...@mac.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Aloha Jan, From just a cursory glance at the metbull entry for Benesov (a), I would surmise a reason for the non-fall classification is due to the fact that much time had elapsed from the witnessed fireball on May 7, 1991 and the actual recovery of material on April 9, 2011. Because almost twenty years had passed, there can be no assurance that the recovered pieces are associated with the witnessed sightings. Additionally, Benesov (a) is an LL3.5 and Benesov (b) is an H5 and were found on the same day 250m apart, both with a weathering grade of W3. Characteristics are Weathered fragments lacking fusion crust. The meteorites resemble the terrestrial stones and slag found in the field. To me, this implies that the recovered pieces have a terrestrial age greater than 20 years. gary On Feb 21, 2012, at 6:18 AM, Jan Woreczko - www.meteoritica.eu wrote: Ha Why are these findings are not classified as a falls? Bene?ov (a) http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=54854 Bene?ov (b) http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=54855 http://translate.google.pl/translate?sl=pltl=enjs=nprev=_thl=plie=UTF-8layout=2eotf=1u=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.meteoritica.pl%2Findex.php5%2FBene%25C5%25A1ov Best wishes, Woreczko __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite thief finally arrested at UNM
A TV-news reporter showed up at the IOM today telling us UNM police had finally tracked down and arrested the guy who stole our Sikhote Alin. He was caught in the act of a another campus burglary yesterday! This story gets another strange twist. Here is the link to the segment broadcast at 5 PM. http://www.kob.com/article/11687/?vid=3302166v=1 -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update - Over 300 new Antarctics
Hi MikeG, Yes these JSC/SI ANSMET photos are great enhancements for the write-ups. Of course they've been doing this for years, but I think I'm going start following suit by including photos on some of my more interesting write-ups, especially if a photo is helpful in the description when words or data come up short. I know it's a lot of work for the editor, but I really enjoy reading the more detailed write-ups -- potentially a great resource for scientists and collectors! Carl Agee Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 16 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 23:27:53 -0500 From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update - Over 300 new Antarctics To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: cakbpjw-cak8uqfwwvbssg2pnhdjgxzdprnzagmazhyw+ra6...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Bulletin Watchers, Over 300 Antarctic meteorites were added today. Highlights include - a big 6kg CR2, several small carbonaceous stones of various types, a tiny ungrouped achondrite, an EL melt rock, a ureilite, and several small CM1/2 stones. Some of these write-ups have some very nice photos in visible light and cross-polarized light. Linky - http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=sfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=1pnt=Normal%20tabledr=page=1 Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 eBay: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Curation of meteorites containing organics
I just saw Jim Wooddell's post about aluminum foil and the new CM fall. It turns out that aluminum foil does react somewhat with carbonaceous chondrite. Apparently the recommended storage material is Teflon. This is what is used in NASA's Lunar Lab (Teflon bags and gloves). Cold and dry (nitrogen) storage are recommended too although if this meteorite has been sitting in the rain, then it may be moot. Take a look at Chris Herd's presentation of lesson's learned from Tagish Lake and Buzzard Coulee: www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/sssr2011/presentations/herd.pdf -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update - 369 ANSMET 36(1) approvals and changes.
The ANSMET yield is Interesting from a statistical perspective. If anyone thinks NWA is not high-graded in Morocco, then think again! Makes you spoiled, darn! just Howardite -- I had hoped it was a Lunar Breccia or yet another pyroxene-phyric shergottite! LOL Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Bulletin Watchers, Lots of new ANSMET approvals in the Bulletin today - http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=sfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=1pnt=Normal%20tabledr=page=1 Tons of OC's, but also many achondrites and interesting stones in the mix. Some detailed write-ups and lots of good photos. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteoroid/Asteroid Electro-Magnetic Disruption and Charge Properties?
Hi Chris, Do you have any references you could point me to for how break-up scales with size-mass-physical properties etc. of meteoroids. I am interested in knowing the sweet-spot for yielding meteorites on the ground. In other words, when is a meteoroid too small or too big to produce significant large pieces of surviving material? It seems like Chelyabinsk is outside the sweet spot as it apparently produced mostly fragments even though it had large mass. On the other hand much bigger masses may also survive. Is it bimodal? Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Chris Peterson c...@alumni.caltech.edu wrote: A body larger than about a centimeter transfers its kinetic energy to other forms primarily by compressing the air in front of it as it descends into the atmosphere. The pressure involved is typically very large- tens or hundreds of megapascals for meter-class bodies. Once this ram pressure exceeds the material strength of the body, it breaks apart (presumably along existing fault lines, so the material properties of the body are important- and generally unknown). Before the breakup, the heat created by compressing air is melting the surface of the meteoroid, resulting in ablation. This ablation is responsible for some of the light we see (along with atmospheric ionization from the same heat source), but is not particularly disruptive to the meteoroid. Only the outer surface is affected. Ablation is a very efficient way of removing energy (which is why spacecraft heat shields prior to the shuttles were ablative). When the meteoroid fragments at hypersonic speeds, however, additional surface area is instantly exposed, resulting in a rapid heating of the surrounding air (which is just a fancy way of saying explosion). If a body breaks into just a few pieces, as is common, we may see a central or terminal brightening. If it completely shatters into thousands of pieces (as seems likely with Chelyabinsk) the energy from the suddenly heated air is immense- an efficient conversion of kinetic energy to thermal energy. The expanding hot air can produce an impressive sonic wave, and probably further disrupts the meteoroid itself. I don't that there are any electrical forces of a significant size to affect the structure or motion of the meteoroid, although atmospheric electrical effects probably occur (e.g. electrophonics). Chris *** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com On 2/26/2013 11:59 PM, drtanuki wrote: Dear List, If there is anyone willing to discuss the how and why meteoroids/asteroids detonate please explain for the list and myself. I am interested learning more about the electrical/mechanical/physical forces that these bodies undergo as they reach the earth such as in the latest Russian event. Thank you. Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] my response to an approach by a journalist
Bob, Good points! Ideally we should engage the press and tell our story. One publication that I interviewed with recently really impressed me, because they had a fact-checker who called me up about a week after the interview. She literally went through the interview question by question asking me is this what your answer was? And so I was given the chance to make what I said as accurate as possible. So, one option is to request or ask if there will be a fact checker before the article is published. The other thing that is important is to have a good relationship with local media, because their stories can get picked up by worldwide wire services. Here in Albuquerque, I know two really good newspaper reporters who write great stories and get front page coverage, and we have one TV channel that is really good with in depth science/space reporting. On the other hand, when NWA 7034 (Black Beauty) was published in Science in January, I probably did two dozen impromptu phone interviews that week, and not one of the stories came out distorted or false. Interestingly, the only story that seemed to have an agenda was that one in the NYT a few years ago on Gebel Kamil - which by the way, did not use a fact-checker. But I was not misquoted in the story, so I can't complain about that, I think a lot of the negative actually came from one of the other individuals who was interviewed -- which of course the reporter used in the article. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Bob King nightsk...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, As a journalist (I'm a newspaper photographer) and someone who works with journalists every day I have a few thoughts on this topic. In newsrooms and TV stations across the U.S. the number of reporters is dwindling. The few left are asked to do stories well outside their areas of expertise, and although many try to get it right, they unfortunately lack the background and often the time to provide the depth needed to satisfy a particular interest group. That should still not be an excuse. I do know this - reporters hate being wrong. The last thing they want to see is a fact in their story in the corrections column in the next day's paper. The better reporters will call the subject back during the writing of or after they've written the story but before publication to verify they've got it right. My suggestions: 1. Carefully frame what you want to say so a reporter fully understands the essence of the story. 2. Respectfully suggest to the reporter to call you back anytime with questions or for verification of details. 3. If the story is factually wrong when published, call or e-mail the reporter and request a correction. If you get flack, ask to speak to his or her editor. 4. If #3 doesn't work, write a letter to the editor. 5. Remember that in the end you don't control the story. The reporter will be talking to other experts (we hope!) in your field of interest and blending in different points of view. Again, a good reporter should call you back when there's a big discrepancy between what you say and the other subject's point of view. Thanks, Bob On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 7:19 AM, jim_brady...@o2.co.uk wrote: I run an ad in Ireland thats been up for a couple of years now and I was approached by a journo who wanted to talk to me and maybe do a piece.I googled him and saw his work and immediately knew I wanted nothing to do with him or his article.You can see my response to him about halfway down the comments on my ad.His name was Samuel Hamilton. http://http://www.adverts.ie/crazy-random-stuff/meteorites-for- sale/400040 there are fair and reasonable journalists out there who are interested in the truth about meteorites no doubt.Just be careful and do a bit of research first would be my suggestion. all the best from Ireland Jim http://www.emeraldislemeteorites.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite
Hi Jason, I don't want to get dragged into a flame war, but I need to set the record straight about lab analyses that will confirm pairing. The most reliable analysis for confirming NWA 7034-pairing is electron microprobe analysis of the major minerals. Although Ar-dating (which you mention) is nice to have (see Julia Cartwright's noble gas work in the LPSC 2013 abstracts) this is not the way to prove pairing. Also it is destructive so you lose precious sample. I assume you have an electron probe at Berkeley, so that this the way to go. The other great thing about microprobe is that it is not destructive and plus you have a thin section or probe mount that can be studied in the future or you can even sell it to a collector. NWA 7034 is fairly easy to ID macroscopically if you have a decent sized hand sample (much more challenging to ID tiny pieces), and the unique clasts are the concentric spheres that can be seen through the surface patina. These may actually be gabbroic pebbles from martian soil caught up in the volcanic/impact breccia. By the way, the black color of Black Beauty is not from shock, it is from the ubiquitous fine-grained magnetite which is the third most abundant mineral in NWA 7034, behind feldspar and pyroxene. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 4:59 AM, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: Martin, Adam, Unless you've analyzed every single fragment of NWA (4880, or whatever else) that you've sold, you or someone else is guilty of self-pairing without analytical data. Having one stone analyzed doesn't do any good. I've seen slices from the official NWA 7034 stone, and several complete pairings. If I were the dealer who had had the stone analyzed, I would be able to self-pair the fragments and no one would care. If I'd donated a few grams, you wouldn't be jumping on my back. And the other ten or so fragments would be untested and fine by your standards, regardless of what they looked like. So...this isn't about authenticity. It's about getting me to donate a few of the ten grams I had to science. Which, normally, I would say is a worthy goal. In this case, it still is. Probably more-so due to the 'special-ness' of the material. But, other dealers raised the price to the point that buying even ten grams from Morocco stretched my budget, so...I'd prefer to sell material for half of what other folks are offering it for, which in turn makes it easier for me to break even and keep some. Part of the issue I have with these threads is that you don't seem to give a darn about the science. You're just attacking *me.* Some of the folks at Berkeley wanted to run a sample for their research. A smaller fragment works for their purposes (argon dating or for atmospheric data, I'm not sure). So, you can rest assured that this material will be analytically confirmed soon enough. It doesn't take 20% to do that. -- Adam. I would point out that we purchased NWA 3200 from you as a pairing to Tafrawet [NWA 860]. The pattern looked different, so we bought all of the still-available slices on ebay and gave some to UCLA. New iron. We tried messaging the other buyers about it, but only one ever responded. Don't know if the other buyers ever figured it out. And someone else reminded me off-list of some slices of NWA 869 sold back in the day as a new meteorite. The disgruntled buyers only realized it later, having paid more for their new...apparent pairing. Not that folks aren't still analyzing pieces of NWA 869 -- not to mention selling other meteorites as paired stones. But, no seasoned dealer would make such a rookie mistake, right? It's easy to self-pair such easily recognizable stones, despite never having sent one in for analysis. Which reminds me: none of this is new. http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com/msg24653.html http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com/msg24503.html To which I'll say the following. The NWA 7034-paired material I have came from the same area and from the same source as did much of the other pairings. My source traveled directly to the find site to obtain it. That, paired with its appearance, is good enough for me. You used the same argument for your NWA 1110/1068 pairings several years ago. -- Jason On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Hi Jason, Uff, slowly you seem to understand, what others smarter than we both got already from the 1st posting on. I say: - Your material has a different status than NWA 2975 and NWA 7034, especially a lower collector's (and therefore monetary) value. - You
[meteorite-list] NWA5400
Hi Pete, Aubrites and enstatite chondrites also plot on the oxygen isotope terrestrial fractionation line (TFL) and up to now they are not proven to be from planets. So being on the TFL doesn't make the meteorite planetary. But I guess it depends on your definition of planetaries, I would only put lunars and martians in that category, but not HEDs. Last time I checked, 4 Vesta the hypothesized HED parent body, was still an asteroid, not a planet. I see no reason to consider NWA 5400 planetary. On the other hand, if someone did an age-date on it, and it came up with a crystallization age much more recent than ~4.5 B.Y., then things would get interesting. This is because asteroidal achondrites have ages ~4.5 B.Y., whereas planets tend to have younger basalts. Likewise, the search for meteorites from Mercury or Venus should include igneous crystallization ages as part of the proof. Carl Agee Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:20 AM, pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com wrote: Since this tracks on the terestial O2 line, can this be concidered a planetary meteorite, along with the Lunars, Martians, as well as Asteroid 4 vesta? Would these be the only 4 planitaries so far or has maybe Mecrury checked in with a sample of it's own? Pete IMCA 1733 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA5400
Hi Jodie, My bias is from a planetary differentiation perspective. The only known meteorites to sample solar system bodies with long-lived (1 BY) igneous activity are lunars and martians. The HEDs might be considered borderline planetaries, since some cumulate eucrites have slightly younger ages than 4.5 BY, but that may be from metamorphism rather than primary igneous activity. So, given my bias, I see all the ancient achondrites as coming from asteroids and the only planetaries (yet known) are lunar and martian. You see, my bias is such that I consider the Moon to be in the same category as terrestrial planets, and that it just happens to orbit the Earth. This is probably not how astronomers see the the solar system, but just fine for an igneous petrologist! Best, Carl -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Jodie Reynolds spacero...@spaceballoon.org wrote: Dear Professor Agee, The IAU's decision to go all rogue on the definition of a planet, dwarf-planet, minor-planet, [iamnotaplanet, iamtooaplanet, someplanetnamedstan] doesn't leave me with a warm and fuzzy about calling Earth a planet. Cleared our orbit - I'm not even certain that's necessarily the case... But then, having spent my formative years haunting Lowell Observatory, I've got a dog in that fight and I'm pretty compromised intellectually/emotionally on the whole topic. I agree that today the IAU defines 4Vesta as a minor planet the same as any other asteroid, though it's larger and with more of a cleared orbit than Makemake or probably Haumea, both dwarf planets per the IAU, and not far behind Ceres. I'm not at all confident the IAU won't change their mind tomorrow** and turn it into a dwarf planet with the same total lack of regard and status as Pluto received. --- Jodie ** 4Vesta appears to have far more hydrostatic equilibrium than dwarf-planet Haumea, and it appears to have cleared its neighborhood more than any of the other Small Solar System Bodies excepting Ceres, per Resolution 5A. Resolution 5B would have cleared a lot of that up, but 5A was passed and 5B shot down, go figger, and now we need to worry about trans-Neptunian dwarf planets that aren't planets at all but bear the name 'planet' ;-) Monday, March 11, 2013, 7:41:12 AM, you wrote: Hi Pete, Aubrites and enstatite chondrites also plot on the oxygen isotope terrestrial fractionation line (TFL) and up to now they are not proven to be from planets. So being on the TFL doesn't make the meteorite planetary. But I guess it depends on your definition of planetaries, I would only put lunars and martians in that category, but not HEDs. Last time I checked, 4 Vesta the hypothesized HED parent body, was still an asteroid, not a planet. I see no reason to consider NWA 5400 planetary. On the other hand, if someone did an age-date on it, and it came up with a crystallization age much more recent than ~4.5 B.Y., then things would get interesting. This is because asteroidal achondrites have ages ~4.5 B.Y., whereas planets tend to have younger basalts. Likewise, the search for meteorites from Mercury or Venus should include igneous crystallization ages as part of the proof. Carl Agee Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:20 AM, pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com wrote: Since this tracks on the terestial O2 line, can this be concidered a planetary meteorite, along with the Lunars, Martians, as well as Asteroid 4 vesta? Would these be the only 4 planitaries so far or has maybe Mecrury checked in with a sample of it's own? Pete IMCA 1733 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Best regards, Jodiemailto:spacero...@spaceballoon.org __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fwd: Postponement of the 8th International Mars Conference to 2014
As the Sequestration starts to propagate... Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ -- Forwarded message -- From: Pulliam, Joyce N (6050) joyce.n.pull...@jpl.nasa.gov Date: Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 9:40 AM Subject: Postponement of the 8th International Mars Conference to 2014 To: Postponement of the 8th International Mars Conference to 2014 The impacts of sequestration on the Federal budget have led to new travel policies that severely constrain the participation of NASA center employees, including JPL, and other government employees (e.g., the U. S. Geological Survey) in scientific conferences, including the planned 8th International Mars Conference set for July 15-19 on the Caltech campus. The current fiscal environment is sufficiently restrictive that we, the organizers of the conference, have decided to delay the meeting for one year, holding it instead in June/July of 2014. We sought advice from the MEPAG Executive Committee, which unanimously concurred with our decision. We were preparing for a general mailing last Monday when NASA Headquarters asked us to hold off and consider whether the conference could be hosted electronically. This was a reasonable request, given recent success for several meetings held via electronic media. However, after consideration, we felt that this would not work for the 8th International Conference on Mars. This series of Mars conferences have at opportune times provided comprehensive looks at our state of knowledge regarding Mars. They are, by design (e.g., broad participation, no parallel sessions, and yes a captive audience in an academic setting) meant to foster cross-disciplinary discussion, integration and innovation. Although it was our strong preference to hold the conference this year, the meeting in 2014 will include even more results from Mars, including Curiosity’s further exploration of Gale Crater, as the rover will then be well into the second year of its primary science mission. We have no doubt that Mars will remain in the news in the coming year, given the ongoing orbital and surface exploration of the planet, and there could be several focused workshops or conferences in that time; each needs to decide if an electronic forum is appropriate. In the meantime, we will work with NASA over the coming year to obtain its approval for extensive participation by its researchers, which is vital to the overall success of a conference that is of the scale of its predecessors.We look forward to a full conference in June/July 2014 and hope to see you there. Dan McCleese / Dave Beaty / Rich Zurek 8th International Mars Conference conveners __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Novato update
I'm having a hard time understanding this problem with Novato. Since when do deposit samples not get analyzed and worked on? Maybe I'm missing something here but the way I do it, is the sample gets ID-ed and classified and then if it merits further research that happens next, in that order. For example, you cannot submit an abstract to LPSC or MetSoc on an unclassified or provisional meteorite. Classification is absolutely the first thing that should happen. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Yes, hunting costs money, lots and lots of it. Ask me, I'm on the other side of the planet right now and western unions as coming in daily. No credit cards accepted where I am:) But we have responsibilities. Pay to play, including getting the type specimen properly curated. I am in 100% agreement with the noncom on this one. Science must come first. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On May 1, 2013, at 7:38 AM, robert crane rrobb...@msn.com wrote: The problem I have is every one should spend their hard earned money in the field looking for these damn things to ease the people that don't leave their driveway. I'm sorry before u bitch and complain get off your ass and not spend time in Stewart Valley or in Franconia getting DCA crap classified. Work in the field and contribute. Make a contribution to science before u bitch about other people. Hunting ain't free. On Apr 30, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: One of the stones from this find was lent to the NASA team, with an open mind and naivte perhaps; a situation that definitely shook her by total surprise and dismay, when another finder of another stone offered a perspective. She wasn't pleased to learn that she may never see it again. - Original Message - From: Robert Verish bolidecha...@yahoo.com To: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Novato update Thanks Rob, for clearing the air and getting this thread back on track. And now that the dust has settled, we're back to my original concern: Why do we have to wait for just the name to be approved? Here is the question I am posing to the List, stated another way: If everyone is in agreement with the Jenniskins arrangement, then why can't the Committee credit UCLA for the type specimen and move forward with approving at least the name Novato (if need be, at least provisionally)? I mean, what is the difference whether the type specimen goes first to UCLA, then goes to NASA, or vice-versa? I mean, for goodness sake, it's NASA we're talking about here. Why do we have to wait for the results from the consortium before we know the approved name of this meteorite? I mean, we didn't even have a consensus classification for Sutter's Mill, but that name still got approved! We didn't have to wait for the results of the consortium, then. Why now? But before I conclude, allow me to state several things FOR THE RECORD: Contrary to any unfounded assertions that may get printed on this List, there is no problem getting type-specimens from finders to researchers: There were 8 Sutter's Mill finds donated from finders property owners. The name Sutter's Mill was approved BEFORE a classification could be agreed upon and long before the consortium published their results. There were 2 Battle Mountain specimens voluntarily donated by finders to researchers. The name Battle Mountain was approved 30 days after the fall. What delay? Other US falls with no problems getting type-specimens: Mifflin, Lorton, Whetstone Mtns, Ash Creek - no delays in name approval. Finders of the Novato meteorite were making arrangements to submit type specimens to researchers, prior to Jenniskins announcement to the Press that he was submitting the Webber stone as a type specimen. Days after his announcement is when I finally made my Novato find, and at that time I never dreamt we would be having this discussion in 2013. If it becomes necessary, I am prepared (as are other finders) to submit a type specimen to UCLA. But not until we all have been given a proper explanation. -- Bob V. --- On Mon, 4/29/13, Matson, Robert D. robert.d.mat...@saic.com wrote: From: Matson, Robert D. robert.d.mat...@saic.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Novato update To: Pat Brown scientificlifest...@hotmail.com, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net, Met List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, April 29, 2013, 8
Re: [meteorite-list] World's Largest Meteorites by Type
The MetBull can be revised or updated with a write-up submitted to the NomCom, but it requires an individual to take the time to actually do that work. For example, I revised NWA 7034 to Martian Basaltic Breccia after my original Achondrite-ung, a year earlier. As far as revising TKW in the MetBull, a recent example is NWA 6963, which went from 83 g in the original write-up to now 8 kg. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote: And that is the fundamental issue with the list ... With some meteorites that were found/fell as one mass, the TKW is more or less accurate. With others that were not found/fell as one mass, the numbers can be WAY off as is the case for Seymchan. The total recovered weight can be much higher than what is reported in the MetBull. Mendy Ouzillou From: Pict p...@pict.co.uk To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] World's Largest Meteorites by Type Where is the 3 tonne Seymchan? Met Bull has mass at 323kg by the way. Regards, John On 13/06/2013 12:22, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Seymchan much larger Pallasite one piece is 3 metric tons alone. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 13, 2013, at 10:20 AM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi List, I am putting together a list of the largest known meteorites by type. Here is what the list looks like so far. Can anyone spot any errors or suggest any other large specimens of different types? Largest Meteorites : Largest carbonaceous CM1 - Moapa Valley - 691 g Largest iron - Hoba - 60 MT Largest chondrite - Jilin - 4 MT Largest aubrite - Norton County - 1.1 MT Largest Martian meteorite - Zagami - 18 kg Largest Lunar meteorite - NWA 5000 / Kalahari 009 - 11.53 kg / 13.5 kg Largest pallasite - Fukang - 1 MT (3.5 MT?) Largest angrite - D'Orbigny - 16.5 kg Largest brachinite - NWA 4882 - 2.89 kg Largest mesosiderite - Bondoc? - 888.6 kg Largest CH - Acfer 366 - 1456 g Largest CR6/Metachondrite - Tafassasset - 30+ kg Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone Blog - http://www.galactic-stone.com/blog - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fwd: Tuesday @ 7pm: Carl Agee on a New Unique Meteorite from Mars
-- Forwarded message -- From: Adrian Brown abr...@seti.org Date: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:17 PM Subject: Tuesday @ 7pm: Carl Agee on a New Unique Meteorite from Mars To: colloqu...@seti.org Please join us next Tuesday at 7pm for a free public talk at the SETI Institute Headquarters at 189 Bernardo Ave, Mountain View. If you can't be at the SETI Institute in person, the talk will be broadcast online and live at the following link: https://plus.google.com/events/cmoj8vn4osu4g505hd7djho5dbg Title:Discovery of a New Unique Water-rich Meteorite from Mars Speaker: Carl Agee (University of New Mexico) When: Tuesday, 12 July 7pm PDT, 2013 Where: Colloquium Room, SETI Headquarters, 189 Bernardo Ave, Mountain View Poster: http://www.seti.org/sites/default/files/csc-July-13.pdf Live link: https://plus.google.com/events/cmoj8vn4osu4g505hd7djho5dbg Abstract: Northwest Africa (NWA) 7034 is a new type of martian meteorite discovered in Morocco in 2011. NWA 7034 aka Black Beauty, nicknamed for its dark shiny appearance, contains ten times more water than other martian meteorites. This combined with its oxidation state which is highest among martian meteorites, its anomalous oxygen isotope values, and its early Amazonian age, make it an extraordinarily valuable specimen for understanding surface processes, aqueous alteration, and atmosphere/lithosphere exchange reactions that existed on Mars ~2 billion years ago. Dr. Agee will show that Black Beauty appears to be the first martian meteorite to match the surface geochemistry of Mars, as seen by landers and orbiters, and as such, it has particular relevance to the current Mars Science Laboratory mission at Gale Crater. Latest YouTube videos: Simone Silvestro - Dune migration at the Curiosity Landing Site Lee Smolin - Emergence of the Laws of Physics Robert Nesbet - Conformal Gravity and Dark Matter/Energy Jon Jenkins - The Once and Future Kepler Robert Henke and Taghi Amarani - Artist in Residence Evening Talks Niki Parenteau's talk on Cyanobacteria and Photosynthesis is currently embargoed, we will let you know when it is public! Max Rudolph - Convection in Ice Satellites Terrence Deacon - Life before genetics: autogensesis and the outer solar system Peter Jenniskens' talk on Chelyabinsk is currently embargoed but we will let you know when we are able to make it public! Steve Croft - Tracking Supermassive Black Holes Claudio Maccone and Stephane Dumas - New Book on Mathematical SETI Denise Herzing - How can SETI learn from Dolphin Communication? Michael Russell - Orgins of Life Through Convection and Serpentinization Jonathan Fortney - Atmosphere of a Typical Exoplanet in Our Galaxy Margaret Race - Balancing Commercial and Science Space Policy in the Coming Decade Karel Schryver - The Sun and Space Weather Bob Laughlin - A Different Universe Sarah Burke-Spolaor - On the road to extragalactic transients (this talk contains embargoed material and we will let you know when it is publicly released) Chat Hull - Observations of Star Formation Regions with CARMA Guy Consolmagno - Adventures of a Vatican Astronomer Mark Showalter - Discovery of the New Moons of Pluto Marco Pavone - Robotic exploration of small planetary bodies Danny Bazo - Robots and Mediated Virtuality Mary Barsony - Free Floating Planetary Mass Objects David Blake - CHEMIN and the Curiosity Rover Steve Carlip - Black Holes Hawking Radiation and Quantum Gravity Ed Lu - B612 Sentinel Telescope: Finding Asteroids Before They Find Us Angela Zalucha - Atmospheres of Pluto and Triton Upcoming talks: Jul. 16 -- Tamara McDunn (JPL): Atmospheric Polar Warming at Mars Jul. 23 -- Paul De Carli (SRI): Free Samples from Mars Jul. 30 -– Oliver White (LPI): “Mapping Io's Surface Topography Using Stereo Images and Photoclinometry Aug. 06 -- Olivier Guyon (NAOJ): New tricks to find and study habitable exoplanets Aug. 13 -- Will Grundy (Lowell): Distribution, Evolution and Mineralogy of Volatile Ices on Pluto Aug. 16 (Friday) -- Tilman Spohn (DLR): Thermal History of Planetary Objects: From Asteroids to super-Earths, from plate-tectonics to life” Aug. 20 -- Stephen Warren (UW): Ocean Surfaces on Snowball Earth Aug. 27 -- Franck Marchis (SETI): Breaking the Seeing Barrier in Planetary Astronomy Sep. 03 -- David Des Marais (Ames): Marine Microbial Mats and Our Early Biosphere Sep. 10 (EVENING) – John Lewis (UAz): “To The Asteroids – and beyond!” Sep. 24 -- Mario Juric (LSST): Large Synoptic Survey Telescope: Entering the Era of Petascale Optical Astronomy Oct. 01 -- Marvin Weinstein (Stanford): Exploring Complex, High Dimensional Data for Hidden Structure Oct. 08 -- Joe Polchinsky (UCSB): Black Holes, Quantum
Re: [meteorite-list] Dunite meteorites?
The brachinite dunite is Northwest Africa 7904. * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi Jack, But there are dunite meteorites! I just classified a brachinite that is a dunite. Also the martian C in SNC is for the dunite Chassigny. Most PACs are olivine rich and some are dunites with 90% or more olivine. Carl Agee On Jul 24, 2013 10:55 AM, jack satkoski jacko...@yahoo.com wrote: Wondering why no predominately olivine or dunite meteorites exist? Does this have something to do with proto planet size and crustal evolution? Thanks, Jack Satkoski __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dunite meteorites?
Hi Mendy, If you look at the literature, there are only a handful of brachinite oxygen data sets, so anomalous may be a poorly defined term. The brachinite trend could actually intersect or cross-over the TFL -- perhaps that is what this one is doing. Or, it could be terrestrial contamination, or as you suggest a exotic component, hard to tell at this point. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote: Carl, I understand the words, heterogeneous oxygen isotopes but not the meaning. Does this imply two different parent bodies merged together? This of course doesn't make sense because then it would be considered an anomalous achondrite. I did not think the the O-isotopes were supposed to vary to the degree that they can be considered heterogeneous. Thanks! Mendy Ouzillou From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: jack satkoski jacko...@yahoo.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dunite meteorites? The brachinite dunite is Northwest Africa 7904. * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi Jack, But there are dunite meteorites! I just classified a brachinite that is a dunite. Also the martian C in SNC is for the dunite Chassigny. Most PACs are olivine rich and some are dunites with 90% or more olivine. Carl Agee On Jul 24, 2013 10:55 AM, jack satkoski jacko...@yahoo.com wrote: Wondering why no predominately olivine or dunite meteorites exist? Does this have something to do with proto planet size and crustal evolution? Thanks, Jack Satkoski __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The NWA 6435 name on MetSoc Database = Nightmare
Mendy, Not to meddle in other people's classifications, but to me the geochemistry and mineralogy does look like a brachinite and not a diogenite. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote: Can someone please clarify why this is listed as a Brachinite instead of Diogenite? Based on the composition being 90% olivine, should this not be listed as a dunitic diogenite? Mendy Ouzillou From: Fabien Kuntz wwmeteori...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 3:09 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] The NWA 6435 name on MetSoc Database = Nightmare Hello, because may of you asked about the statut of NWA 6435 on the Bulletin, here is the story (it have been discussed on the list with Norbert Kammel during the summer, the 9 jully, remember) : Maybe Jeff Grossman will explain this a different way (because at this time I have not understand all what happened), but I have a brachinite (now is the official NWA 5435) was for a time missnamed as NWA 6435 (this was the name I recieved from the classifier) ! So during a time, this meteorite had two provisionnal names (NWA 5435 and NWA 6435, close in look, easy mistake) ! At the same time the NWA 5435 number have been assigned too, to a stone of Norbert Kammel, a chondrite (this is what was discussed on the list on early july). The official for my brachinite was choosed as NWA 5435 (it is now OFFICIAL on the Bulletin), and the Norbert chondrite was reassigned as NWA 3999... last year, I submitted to Tony Irving a new stone (working name K091 for Kuntz091), after preliminary work on it of Jean-Alix Barrat, and the NWA 6435 was finally reassigned to this new stone, the unbrecciated diogenite I introduced today. OK for me this is a NIGHTMARE, I just did what I had to did, and now I have to writte here a real novel to explain what happen, and collectors possibly interesting in slices of this meteorite maybe will be suspicious ! I suppose I have to wait (month, years?) for this mistake was corrected on the Bulletin... Fabien Fabien Kuntz Météorites (ventes, expertise, conférences) Animation scientifique et technique WWMETEORITES (Siret : 511 850 612 00017) www.wwmeteorites.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The NWA 6435 name on MetSoc Database = Nightmare
Of course I'm referring to NWA 5435 in the MetBull! No, I agree this is very confusing! Another reason to do away with Provisonals. There are so many that will never get classified -- a waste of time in my opinion. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Mendy, Not to meddle in other people's classifications, but to me the geochemistry and mineralogy does look like a brachinite and not a diogenite. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote: Can someone please clarify why this is listed as a Brachinite instead of Diogenite? Based on the composition being 90% olivine, should this not be listed as a dunitic diogenite? Mendy Ouzillou From: Fabien Kuntz wwmeteori...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 3:09 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] The NWA 6435 name on MetSoc Database = Nightmare Hello, because may of you asked about the statut of NWA 6435 on the Bulletin, here is the story (it have been discussed on the list with Norbert Kammel during the summer, the 9 jully, remember) : Maybe Jeff Grossman will explain this a different way (because at this time I have not understand all what happened), but I have a brachinite (now is the official NWA 5435) was for a time missnamed as NWA 6435 (this was the name I recieved from the classifier) ! So during a time, this meteorite had two provisionnal names (NWA 5435 and NWA 6435, close in look, easy mistake) ! At the same time the NWA 5435 number have been assigned too, to a stone of Norbert Kammel, a chondrite (this is what was discussed on the list on early july). The official for my brachinite was choosed as NWA 5435 (it is now OFFICIAL on the Bulletin), and the Norbert chondrite was reassigned as NWA 3999... last year, I submitted to Tony Irving a new stone (working name K091 for Kuntz091), after preliminary work on it of Jean-Alix Barrat, and the NWA 6435 was finally reassigned to this new stone, the unbrecciated diogenite I introduced today. OK for me this is a NIGHTMARE, I just did what I had to did, and now I have to writte here a real novel to explain what happen, and collectors possibly interesting in slices of this meteorite maybe will be suspicious ! I suppose I have to wait (month, years?) for this mistake was corrected on the Bulletin... Fabien Fabien Kuntz Météorites (ventes, expertise, conférences) Animation scientifique et technique WWMETEORITES (Siret : 511 850 612 00017) www.wwmeteorites.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] First fragment of Chelyabinsk meteorite raised from bottom of Lake Chebarkul
They use dry nitrogen to thaw Antarctic meteorites at NASA JSC. Maybe that would be worth doing for the truly museum grade pieces -- if there are any found in the lake. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: The thick mud at the bottom of Lake Chebarkul is surely very oxygen-poor. But, the stone will have been completely saturated now, like a sponge. So the minute they remove it from the mud, the oxidation will begin rapidly, unless they undertake measures to stabilize it. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 9/24/13, Mark Ford mark.f...@southernscientific.co.uk wrote: Yeah Looks like a tiny little fragment?? And way too fresh... -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic Stone Ironworks Sent: 24 September 2013 15:43 To: met-list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] First fragment of Chelyabinsk meteorite raised from bottom of Lake Chebarkul Shouldn't that fragment be much more rusted if it came from the bottom of the lake? I've seen ugly fragments on eBay that looked much worse, and they weren't sitting at the bottom of a lake for 6 months. ??? Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 9/24/13, karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de wrote: The first specimen was raised from the bottom of Lake Chebarkul this morning: http://kp.ua/daily/240913/415052/ http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=desl=rutl=enu=http%3A%2F%2Fkp.ua%2Fdaily%2F240913%2F415052%2Fsandbox=1 More to come... Martin Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update - 196 Approvals, NWA, Sahara, Winner South Dakota
Hi Mike, Winner is definitely a winner. The write-up does not mention that UNM and ASU both now have full slices of Winner in their collections. Beautiful and unusual OC, South Dakota meteorite! Best regards, Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Bulletin Watchers, 196 new approvals. Most are OC's from the Sahara dense collection area. There are also some NWA's, Nevada, and one find from South Dakota (Winner). Link to all new approvals - http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=sfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=1pnt=Normal%20tabledr=page=1 Link to Winner - http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=58292 Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Hi Mike, Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince! The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam and List, Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest : Black Beauty (NWA 7034) Tissint Jbilet Winselwan NWA 5000 NWA 998 Almahata Sitta NWA 4301 Zag Gebel Kamil Too many Vestans to list. I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion. The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds. Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated, ordinary chondrites. But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of paired finds. So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus Antarctics is about even. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara Adam - Original Message - From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica. By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Northwest Africa 2737, the only other chassignite. * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi Mike, Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince! The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam and List, Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest : Black Beauty (NWA 7034) Tissint Jbilet Winselwan NWA 5000 NWA 998 Almahata Sitta NWA 4301 Zag Gebel Kamil Too many Vestans to list. I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion. The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds. Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated, ordinary chondrites. But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of paired finds. So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus Antarctics is about even. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara Adam - Original Message - From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica. By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Mendy, Absolutely! I remember the curation folks at NASA JSC describing the mind-numbing ordeal of having to catalog hundreds of EOCs brought back by ANSMET, many of which were of course the same meteorite. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote: Carl, I'm guessing that the reason for the disparity you speak of below between NWA and Antarctic meteorites is that EVERY antarctic meteorite get collected with no filtering while the NWA meteorites are brought to light by economic drivers. Old, weathered or uninteresting material does not get brought forth because almost no one wants to buy it and fewer still would bother classifying. It is an interesting aspect of the NWA dynamics that has not been explored and a perfect example of the role collectors and dealers play in acting as filters for the scientific community. Best, Mendy On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Northwest Africa 2737, the only other chassignite. * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi Mike, Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince! The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam and List, Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest : Black Beauty (NWA 7034) Tissint Jbilet Winselwan NWA 5000 NWA 998 Almahata Sitta NWA 4301 Zag Gebel Kamil Too many Vestans to list. I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion. The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds. Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated, ordinary chondrites. But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of paired finds. So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus Antarctics is about even. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara Adam - Original Message - From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica. By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Weathering rates for New Mexico, Sahara, and Antarctica: http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1993Metic..28Q.460W * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It is myth that Antarctic meteorites are less weathered. They weather differently is all. I have been in the Antarctic Laboratory and can tell that most of the inventory is not free of rusticles and evaporation deposits. After all, Antarctica gets its weather right of the salt water ocean. It seems only the best looking material is ever put on public display. Adam - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) Hi Mike, Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince! The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam and List, Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest : Black Beauty (NWA 7034) Tissint Jbilet Winselwan NWA 5000 NWA 998 Almahata Sitta NWA 4301 Zag Gebel Kamil Too many Vestans to list. I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion. The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds. Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated, ordinary chondrites. But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of paired finds. So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus Antarctics is about even. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara Adam - Original Message - From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica. By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
I think where NWA and the hot desert finds have had the greatest benefit to science with a capital S are in achondrites and in particular martian meteorites. If you look at the abstracts at 2012-2013 LPSC and MetSoc (no, I didn't actually count them) the martian meteorite literature is now dominated by NWA finds and Tissint. Again, ANSMET just isn't nearly as productive, and you can have multi-year dry spells when no ANSMET martians were recovered. Recently it has been very sparse with 1 pairing in 2012, 1 pairing in 2009, 1 find in 2006. In fact, according to MetBull, in the last ten years there have been only 6 martians (12, not counting pairings) recovered. Another ANSMET martian drought was 1994-2000. Lunars in NWA are productive too, but interestingly dominated by feldspathic breccias. For lunars though, at least for the foreseeable future, there will never be a contest for dominance because of the 390 kg of Moon rocks from Apollo, which will be the gold standard until we return to the Moon. In contrast, a Mars sample return seems to always be 10 years away with a continually out-of-reach horizon. So martian meteorites, mostly from NWA, will be our Mars sample return until we get a President who tells NASA to go to Mars with MSR or humans (or until Chinese beat us to it). Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Jeff Stated: Papers on hot and cold desert meteorites are subequal, which is the trend we all see. I agree with this statement. They were not subequal just a few years ago meaning the trend is favoring hot desert finds long term. The number of rare and unusual meteorites coming out of the hot deserts far exceed those being recovered from Antarctica. Adam --- Original Message - From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:03 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) 50% is not even close. I counted the peer-reviewed papers in the 2012 volume of MAPS. In the 58 non-review papers that reported analyses of physical samples of meteorites, 52% used falls, 12% used non-desert finds, 24% used hot desert meteorites, and 28% used Antarctic meteorites. (this sums to 100% because some papers reported data in multiple categories). So, if 2012 in MAPS is representative (I'm done counting, so I can't answer that), when it comes to the question of what are the most important meteorites for Science these days, it isn't hot OR cold desert meteorites... it's observed falls. Papers on hot and cold desert meteorites are subequal, which is the trend we all see. Jeff On 10/10/2013 12:27 AM, Adam Hupe wrote: I will not debate the legacy of Antarctic meteorites. They have had a wonderful history and their contribution to science has been invaluable. Most researchers are sample oriented and are not biased by find location but there are still a few that cling to legacy. Antarctica had a a two decade plus head start in the abstract/paper queue so naturally there are more documents. Ten years ago, maybe one in ten papers were on hot desert finds. Now, I estimate about 50%. At this rate, as very important samples from NWA and other deserts enter the queue, it will not be long before these finds handily overtake Antarctica by a wide margin in the business of science. In other words; There is not enough material coming out of Antarctica anymore to reverse the current trend which favors the hot desert meteorites for research material in the future. Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Adam, I totally agree! And actually the lunar meteorites are telling us that the Apollo collection is highly skewed towards the mare basalts and other possibly atypical rocks of the nearside. Now if we could just prove that a particular lunar meteorite was a sample from the South Pole Aitken Basin! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Carl Stated For lunars though, at least for the foreseeable future, there will never be a contest for dominance because of the 390 kg of Moon rocks from Apollo, which will be the gold standard until we return to the Moon. I agree that the Apollo returned Moon rocks are a national treasure. One of the highlights of my life was seeing some of these specimens for myself up close and personal in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory (Vault) at the NASA facility at the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center where this precious material is stored. Where lunar finds contribute to science is that many have come from unsampled parts of the Moon. There are a few unique Lunaite examples that provide additional understanding of our nearest celestial neighbor. I was pleased to see a poster of NWA 5000 on the wall right across the hall from the NASA Moon rock vault. This tells me that the researches are sample oriented and where a Moon rock comes from is secondary. This enhances data acquisition instead of competing against it. Adam - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Cc: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) I think where NWA and the hot desert finds have had the greatest benefit to science with a capital S are in achondrites and in particular martian meteorites. If you look at the abstracts at 2012-2013 LPSC and MetSoc (no, I didn't actually count them) the martian meteorite literature is now dominated by NWA finds and Tissint. Again, ANSMET just isn't nearly as productive, and you can have multi-year dry spells when no ANSMET martians were recovered. Recently it has been very sparse with 1 pairing in 2012, 1 pairing in 2009, 1 find in 2006. In fact, according to MetBull, in the last ten years there have been only 6 martians (12, not counting pairings) recovered. Another ANSMET martian drought was 1994-2000. Lunars in NWA are productive too, but interestingly dominated by feldspathic breccias. For lunars though, at least for the foreseeable future, there will never be a contest for dominance because of the 390 kg of Moon rocks from Apollo, which will be the gold standard until we return to the Moon. In contrast, a Mars sample return seems to always be 10 years away with a continually out-of-reach horizon. So martian meteorites, mostly from NWA, will be our Mars sample return until we get a President who tells NASA to go to Mars with MSR or humans (or until Chinese beat us to it). Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Jeff Stated: Papers on hot and cold desert meteorites are subequal, which is the trend we all see. I agree with this statement. They were not subequal just a few years ago meaning the trend is favoring hot desert finds long term. The number of rare and unusual meteorites coming out of the hot deserts far exceed those being recovered from Antarctica. Adam --- Original Message - From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:03 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) 50% is not even close. I counted the peer-reviewed papers in the 2012 volume of MAPS. In the 58 non-review papers that reported analyses of physical samples of meteorites, 52% used falls, 12% used non-desert finds, 24% used hot desert meteorites, and 28% used Antarctic meteorites. (this sums to 100% because some papers reported data in multiple categories). So, if 2012 in MAPS is representative (I'm done counting, so I can't answer that), when it comes to the question of what are the most important meteorites for Science these days, it isn't hot OR cold desert meteorites... it's
Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite
Martin, Thanks for posting! I think I was able to decipher the article's translation. I am left with the impression that all the Norwegian scientists are asking is that the Grefsen be classified? I did check the MetBull and this is the result: No records found for meteorites with names that contain Grefsen; No synonyms containing Grefsen were found. Seems incredibly short-sighted of the holders of the main mass not to want it classified given that all that all they will give up is 20g! Plus the value will be enhanced. Furthermore, this is also the type of bad behavior that does get attention of government officials, and so at some point they may indeed change the current finder is owner rule to finder must give all to the Kingdom of Norway. Or perhaps this is a Norwegian turf war? Perhaps an outsider could convince the owners to do the right thing and get it classified. Has anyone contacted them? Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ 2013/10/31 karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de: New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fkultur%2Fkritiserer-roed-odegaard-1.11325245 Martin Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] SoCal Fireball - 19:50 PST 06 November 2013
Yes, and can we please have a first lunar fall? Oh, and I want a piece for the Museum :) Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:27 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: lets hope this one can be found! Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Nov 6, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Rob Matson mojave_meteori...@cox.net wrote: Resending... message didn't post when I sent it ~2 hours ago: Hi All, Observed a very bright (mag -12) fireball on my drive home this evening at 7:50 pm PST (3:50 UT 07 November 2013). Starting direction was to my east from latitude 33.6879 N, -117.9144 W, at an elevation of about 25 degrees, and terminus was perhaps 10-15 degrees south of east (azimuth 100-105) at about 10-degree elevation. Duration was around 3 seconds, and there were multiple flashes and fragmentation. Posted my obs to the AMS website a few minutes ago and see that there are dozens of others who have already done so. My time should be very accurate as I checked my watch within a few seconds of the end of the fireball. Call it 7:50:00 pm +/- 30 seconds. This should be easy to find on all-sky cameras, and if anything survived to the ground it is definitely over land. I'd guess somewhere east of I-15 and south of I-10. --Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill now at IOM
Thanks to Mike Miller and Ruben Garcia, Sutter's Mill is now part of the IOM collection. Check out these two exquisite gems -- the fusion crust is simply gorgeous. SM 31 on right is fully crusted. We also acquired some fragments for research. Guess what will be on the microprobe next week! http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4003688969531set=a.1076549432872.2012978.1200325441type=1ref=nf -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill now at IOM
David, I appreciate your efforts. It must have been hard to part with that beauty! These are such handsome stones -- the crust is wonderful -- certainly exceeding my expectations. Can't wait to see the microscopic interior on the probe next week. Carl On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:10 PM, Dave Johnson chairlift...@yahoo.com wrote: Carl, As the finder of SM41, I'm happy to see it go to a good home! I'm still out hunting and hope to add another (or more) to the list. David Johnson Sacramento,CA Sent from my iPad On May 18, 2012, at 9:02 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Thanks to Mike Miller and Ruben Garcia, Sutter's Mill is now part of the IOM collection. Check out these two exquisite gems -- the fusion crust is simply gorgeous. SM 31 on right is fully crusted. We also acquired some fragments for research. Guess what will be on the microprobe next week! http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4003688969531set=a.1076549432872.2012978.1200325441type=1ref=nf -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Some backscatter electron images of Sutter's Mill
Had some fun analyzing Sutter's Mill yesterday on the electron microprobe. Here are a few images for your viewing pleasure. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4042115930181set=a.1076549432872.2012978.1200325441type=1ref=nf http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4042120450294set=a.1076549432872.2012978.1200325441type=1ref=nf http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4042131410568set=a.1076549432872.2012978.1200325441type=1ref=nf -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill BSE - two more
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4042491099560set=a.1076549432872.2012978.1200325441type=1ref=nf http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4042494859654set=a.1076549432872.2012978.1200325441type=1ref=nf -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill BSE - two more
Jeff, You mean the area in the SW quadrant? It's permeated with the bright material? It could be sulfide, but I didn't get a chance to EDS or probe it yesterday. It's all somewhat bewildering, there is so much look at, so I am starting with the simple stuff that give good microprobe totals -- haha!. Beware of this meteorite! Like going down the rabbit hole Carl - Carl, What's the difference between the two lithologies visible in the first of these two photos? Jeff On 5/25/2012 2:19 PM, Carl Agee wrote: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4042491099560set=a.1076549432872.2012978.1200325441type=1ref=nf http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4042494859654set=a.1076549432872.2012978.1200325441type=1ref=nf -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill BSE - two more
Hi Richard, I haven't seen a thin section of Sutter's Mill yet, but my guess is that it will be very dark, just like the meteorite, so maybe not that illuminating. I prefer backscatter electron images because they not only show texture, but also image chemical compositional variations. Like the dark olivines in my images?- they are Mg2SiO4-rich, the light shaded olivines are Fe2SiO4-rich. Bright patches indicate high iron or Ti or Cr, and so on. As to the CaO, the electron microprobe does not do carbon very well so it usually comes up with low totals on carbonates. I looked at the data today and we found 4 separate crystals with this composition in one of the small SM sections -- after perusing the CM literature today, I am pretty sure this is calcite or aragonite -- thought by some to form during aqueous alteration and commonly found in CMs. With respect to the classification and type, I will leave that to the unequilibrated chondrite experts like Jeff Grossman and Alan Rubin. MetSoc will be very interesting this year: Tissint, Sutter's Mill, and NWA 7034. You haven't heard about NWA 7034? Oh you will... Carl Agee On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: Carl and List, I'm struck by the chondrule variation...can't wait to see a TS (hi Anne!)so it's time to ask about the rabbit hole: As I mentioned I'm just guessing herenot a CM2, due to chondrules actually so present, right? Not a CM3 either (if there ever is such a thing) due to the rim alterations and aqueous stuff; dark matrix like a CM, yet more crowded chondrules; complete CaO crystals; lacking so far of seeing any CAIswhat's your guess at this point?? Next Halloween I can dress up as a petrologist scientistbut won't fool anyone. Fun to speculate, though. Richard M - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill BSE - two more Jeff, You mean the area in the SW quadrant? It's permeated with the bright material? It could be sulfide, but I didn't get a chance to EDS or probe it yesterday. It's all somewhat bewildering, there is so much look at, so I am starting with the simple stuff that give good microprobe totals -- haha!. Beware of this meteorite! Like going down the rabbit hole Carl - Carl, What's the difference between the two lithologies visible in the first of these two photos? Jeff On 5/25/2012 2:19 PM, Carl Agee wrote: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4042491099560set=a.1076549432872.2012978.1200325441type=1ref=nf http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4042494859654set=a.1076549432872.2012978.1200325441type=1ref=nf -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fwd: Sutter's Mill BSE - two more
From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu Date: Sat, May 26, 2012 at 12:19 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill BSE - two more To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net But I have some more goodies to report on NWA 7034...its Rb/Sr age for one thing :) Carl Agee On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: You haven't heard about NWA 7034? Oh, you will... NWA 7034? They can read about it here: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2012/pdf/2690.pdf Sterling K. webb -- - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 11:15 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill BSE - two more Hi Richard, I haven't seen a thin section of Sutter's Mill yet, but my guess is that it will be very dark, just like the meteorite, so maybe not that illuminating. I prefer backscatter electron images because they not only show texture, but also image chemical compositional variations. Like the dark olivines in my images?- they are Mg2SiO4-rich, the light shaded olivines are Fe2SiO4-rich. Bright patches indicate high iron or Ti or Cr, and so on. As to the CaO, the electron microprobe does not do carbon very well so it usually comes up with low totals on carbonates. I looked at the data today and we found 4 separate crystals with this composition in one of the small SM sections -- after perusing the CM literature today, I am pretty sure this is calcite or aragonite -- thought by some to form during aqueous alteration and commonly found in CMs. With respect to the classification and type, I will leave that to the unequilibrated chondrite experts like Jeff Grossman and Alan Rubin. MetSoc will be very interesting this year: Tissint, Sutter's Mill, and NWA 7034. You haven't heard about NWA 7034? Oh you will... Carl Agee On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: Carl and List, I'm struck by the chondrule variation...can't wait to see a TS (hi Anne!)so it's time to ask about the rabbit hole: As I mentioned I'm just guessing herenot a CM2, due to chondrules actually so present, right? Not a CM3 either (if there ever is such a thing) due to the rim alterations and aqueous stuff; dark matrix like a CM, yet more crowded chondrules; complete CaO crystals; lacking so far of seeing any CAIswhat's your guess at this point?? Next Halloween I can dress up as a petrologist scientistbut won't fool anyone. Fun to speculate, though. Richard M - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill BSE - two more Jeff, You mean the area in the SW quadrant? It's permeated with the bright material? It could be sulfide, but I didn't get a chance to EDS or probe it yesterday. It's all somewhat bewildering, there is so much look at, so I am starting with the simple stuff that give good microprobe totals -- haha!. Beware of this meteorite! Like going down the rabbit hole Carl - Carl, What's the difference between the two lithologies visible in the first of these two photos? Jeff On 5/25/2012 2:19 PM, Carl Agee wrote: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4042491099560set=a.1076549432872.2012978.1200325441type=1ref=nf http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4042494859654set=a.1076549432872.2012978.1200325441type=1ref=nf -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Carl B. Agee
[meteorite-list] MetSoc 2012
Thanks for pointing it out Martin! I guess the MetSoc organizers are very busy and haven't had time to notify presenters. I didn't even know I had talk yet, but I know now, thanks to you! There many other interesting sessions in addition to Sutter's Mill, one devoted entirely to Tissint. And of course, a talk on my favorite meteorite NWA 7034: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2012/pdf/5391.pdf The whole Program can be accessed at http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2012/pdf/program.pdf Carl Agee Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ -- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:32:59 +0200 From: karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de Subject: [meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill - scientific results To: met-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 1skf3z-2kue...@fwd14.aul.t-online.de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dear list members In these 'abstracts' from the program for the upcoming 75th Annual Meteoritical Society Meeting you can find some very interesting scientific results about Sutter's Mill. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2012/pdf/sess606.pdf http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2012/pdf/sess703.pdf Martin -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] 13yo Boy Finds Rio Rancho Meteorite
http://www.abqjournal.com/main/2012/07/07/news/space-rockhound.html -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rio Rancho meteorite story on Channel 13
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=4293327050302saved -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NASA Scientists and Engineers Receive Presidential Early Career Awards
Congratulations to IOM's Francis McCubbin! NASA and the President also appreciate meteorite experts :) - Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:49:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Scientists and Engineers Receive PresidentialEarly Career Awards To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com (Meteorite Mailing List) Message-ID: 201207231949.q6njnxv3017...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii July 23, 2012 Sarah DeWitt Headquarters, Washington 202-358-2451 sarah.l.dew...@nasa.gov RELEASE: 12-251 NASA SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS RECEIVE PRESIDENTIAL EARLY CAREER AWARDS WASHINGTON -- President Obama has named six NASA individuals as recipients of the 2011 Presidential Early Career Award for Scientists and Engineers (PECASE). The NASA recipients and 90 other federal researchers will receive their awards in a ceremony later this month in Washington. The PECASE awards represent the highest honor bestowed by the U.S. government on scientists and engineers beginning their independent careers. They recognize recipients' exceptional potential for leadership at the frontiers of scientific knowledge, and their commitment to community service as demonstrated through professional leadership, education or community outreach. These talented individuals have already made significant contributions to the agency's mission at this early stage in their careers, said NASA Chief Scientist Waleed Abdalati. We look forward to celebrating their continued success for many years to come. The 2011 NASA recipients were nominated by the agency's Science Mission Directorate, Office of the Chief Engineer, and Office of the Chief Technologist: - Morgan B. Abney, NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala., recognized for innovative technical leadership in advancing technologies for recovering oxygen from carbon dioxide for self-sustaining human space exploration. - Ian Gauld Clark, NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, Calif., recognized for exceptional leadership and achievement in the pursuit of advanced entry, descent and landing technologies and techniques for space exploration missions. - Temilola Fatoyinbo-Agueh, NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., recognized for exceptional achievement in merging scientific priorities with advanced technology to develop innovative remote-sensing instrumentation for carbon-cycle and ecosystems science. - Jessica E. Koehne, NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., recognized for exceptional dedication to the development of nano-bio sensing systems for NASA mission needs. - Francis M. McCubbin, Institute of Meteoritics, University of New Mexico in Albuquerque, N.M., recognized for studies of the geochemical role of water and other volatiles in extraterrestrial materials from the inner solar system. - Yuri Y. Shprits, University of California, Los Angeles, recognized for early-career leadership and innovative research and modeling in the realm of the Earth's Van Allen radiation belts. The PECASE awards were created to foster innovative developments in science and technology, increase awareness of careers in science and engineering, give recognition to the scientific missions of participating agencies, enhance connections between fundamental research and many of the grand challenges facing the nation, and highlight the importance of science and technology for America's future. Eleven federal departments and agencies nominated scientists and engineers for the 2011 PECASE awards. For a complete list of 2011 award winners, visit: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/07/23/president-obama-honors-outstanding-early-career-scientists For information about NASA and agency programs, visit: http://www.nasa.gov -end- - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Enstatite Connection to Mercury
Pete, That's right, no evidence for an angrite composition on the surface of Mercury -- at least not yet. Angrites have far too much FeO in the silicates to match the spectra of Mercury. Also, angrites are among the oldest igneous rocks in the solar system (SAH 99555 is probably the oldest known igneous rock), and you would expect to see somewhat younger ages from a planet (like Mercury or Mars) or even a large body like our Moon -- it takes millions of years to differentiate and form a crust. Who knows, maybe some aubrites are from Mercury, or maybe we need to keep searching! Best regards, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 14:09:30 -0400 From: Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Enstatite Connection to Mercury To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: bay153-w19b649238a92acc6a2aa84f8...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, All, I just came across this: Mercury's Surface Resembles Rare Meteorites http://www.space.com/17727-mercury-surface-rare-meteorites.html http://www.space.com/17727-mercury-surface-rare-meteorites.html ...The surface is dominated by minerals high in magnesium and enriched in sulfur, making it similar to partially melted versions of an enstatite chondrite, a rare type of meteorite that formed at high temperatures in low-oxygen conditions in the inner solar system. (The price of enstatites just went up!;)) Unless I've missed it, there hasn't been any connection of angrites to Mercury come out of Messenger's analysed data, correct? It's safe to assume angrites have an unknown source but not Mercury, at this time? Best, Pete -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Water cutting question
I have been following the thread on cutting irons in water. My question is, why distilled or purified water rather than tap water? I was under the impression that purified water, i.e. ultrapure water, is much more corrosive than mineralized water like spring water or tap water. In fact, ultrapure water is so corrosive it is often used in clean labs as a cleaning medium for surfaces. Also, the pharmaceutical industry no longer uses stainless steel tubing for ultrapure water because of corrosion -- they use Teflon or polyethylene instead I believe. Wouldn't pure water be worse on iron oxidation than mineral water? I can understand using pure water to cut down on trace element contamination for geochemical srtudies, especially on stones, but I don't see how this helps for keeping irons from rusting. Also, while we are at it, what is the best blade for cutting irons? Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Martian (Basaltic Breccia)
My revised classification of NWA 7034 was approved yesterday for this new type of martian meteorite: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=NWA+7034sfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=54831 Also it will be featured on Wikipedia's front page soon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Africa_7034 -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] UNM clip: NWA 7034 aka Black Beauty
Here is UNM's own media report on our discovery of this new type of Martian meteorite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfFU3EGcWJY There are also new, exciting results to be reported on NWA 7034 at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference this March in Houston. These are new findings that are not in the recent Science article article, this includes martian atmospheric noble gases, cosmic ray exposure, magnetism, and more the oxygen isotope anomaly and origin of the brecciation. Also, there will be talks on the Black Beauty pairing NWA 7533. Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose saharaite. So we now have the meteorites from Mars or SCANS S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 5102a808.5040...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: Hi Paul, I like the SNCB. It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. Regards, Fred H. How shall we organize the new class of Martian? Until now it has been SNC How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? SNCB What say you all? -Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Hi Greg, The NWA 7034 main mass is the original ~320g single stone Black Beauty that I started working on back in August of 2011. For a while I thought it was the only one in existence, but over the past few months more stones, all smaller than 320, have been recovered. The two additional stones that I have personally inspected are 107.5g and 65g. So that is 492g, plus the 84g pairing NWA 7533 (which by the way is geochemically identical to NWA 7034 and clearly from the same meteoroid). I have recently seen photos of additional stones, so you are correct that the Black Beauty TKW is probably a bit more than 1kg. When the dust settles, I hope to revise the NWA 7034 write-up in MetBull and list the TKW. Personally, I think it is very confusing to have a bunch of NWA# pairings, when all these stones are so clearly pieces of the same rock, they are unlike any other meteorite both in hand sample and geochemically. By the way, we will be presenting new data at LPSC (not in the Science paper) on noble gases that have been measured in NWA 7034, which are a match for Viking measurements of Martian atmosphere. Also the cosmic ray exposure age is likely ~5 my, the size of the NWA 7034 meteoroid in interplanetary space (before Earth entry) is estimated at diameter ~50 cm, so anyone hoping that there are many 10s of kg of Black Beauty on the ground in the Saraha will be disappointed. Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net wrote: Hi Carl, It is lunch time for us Floridians so I am just taking a break and munching on some SNACS... Seriously, What is the current count of NWA 7034 'official' pairings and how many stones constitute each of those? We have all heard of 'paired' stones making the current stone count at about a dozen or so IF they are indeed paired to NWA 7034. We have been hearing and seeing images of stones offered from Moroccan dealers as pairings. If I read it all correctly, the original single 320g stone was the first NWA 7034 one. Are the three stones pictured in all of the press releases part of one stone that adds up to 320 grams? If not, what are the weights of the additional two stones and/or do they each have their own NWA numbers? Also, I heard there is a 240 gram stone with the owner of the first 320g stone, has this been confirmed yet? The only 'officially' paired stone that I am aware of is NWA 7533 weighing in at 84 grams. If all of the stones that are 'guaranteed' paired to NWA 7034 by Moroccan dealers, the combined weight is exceeding 1000 grams which is pretty cool for such a unique meteorite! Congrats again to all involved in bringing this new Martian meteorite to light! Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Carl Agee Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM To: meteoritelist meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose saharaite. So we now have the meteorites from Mars or SCANS S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 5102a808.5040...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: Hi Paul, I like the SNCB. It sounds
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Hi Martin, Here is an excerpt from our noble gas abstract for NWA 7034, Cartwright et al.: We obtain T3, T21 and T38 ages of 5.1 Ma, 11.4 Ma and 5.4 Ma respectively. The older T21 age may result from heteorgeniety of target elements like Ca and Mg within the breccia. T3 has little dependency on chemical composition (and T38 also less than T21), and with elevated 4He concenrations, perhaps 3He loss was minimal, and thus this age real. A CRE age 5 Ma is older than observed previously for shergottite CRE ages, though the 11.4Ma age is similar to Nakhlite / Chassigny CRE ages. So it's not carved in stone quite yet... Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM, karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de wrote: Thanks a lot for the information, Carl. I can't wait to read more in six days. Does the CRE-age of ~5 My mean that NWA 7034 probably represents a new impact event or could it somehow be related to the shergottites Y793605 and Y27 with their ejection age of ~4.70 ± 0.50 My? Best regards, Martin Von: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu An: Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Datum: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:19:34 +0100 Hi Greg, The NWA 7034 main mass is the original ~320g single stone Black Beauty that I started working on back in August of 2011. For a while I thought it was the only one in existence, but over the past few months more stones, all smaller than 320, have been recovered. The two additional stones that I have personally inspected are 107.5g and 65g. So that is 492g, plus the 84g pairing NWA 7533 (which by the way is geochemically identical to NWA 7034 and clearly from the same meteoroid). I have recently seen photos of additional stones, so you are correct that the Black Beauty TKW is probably a bit more than 1kg. When the dust settles, I hope to revise the NWA 7034 write-up in MetBull and list the TKW. Personally, I think it is very confusing to have a bunch of NWA# pairings, when all these stones are so clearly pieces of the same rock, they are unlike any other meteorite both in hand sample and geochemically. By the way, we will be presenting new data at LPSC (not in the Science paper) on noble gases that have been measured in NWA 7034, which are a match for Viking measurements of Martian atmosphere. Also the cosmic ray exposure age is likely ~5 my, the size of the NWA 7034 meteoroid in interplanetary space (before Earth entry) is estimated at diameter ~50 cm, so anyone hoping that there are many 10s of kg of Black Beauty on the ground in the Saraha will be disappointed. Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net wrote: Hi Carl, It is lunch time for us Floridians so I am just taking a break and munching on some SNACS... Seriously, What is the current count of NWA 7034 'official' pairings and how many stones constitute each of those? We have all heard of 'paired' stones making the current stone count at about a dozen or so IF they are indeed paired to NWA 7034. We have been hearing and seeing images of stones offered from Moroccan dealers as pairings. If I read it all correctly, the original single 320g stone was the first NWA 7034 one. Are the three stones pictured in all of the press releases part of one stone that adds up to 320 grams? If not, what are the weights of the additional two stones and/or do they each have their own NWA numbers? Also, I heard there is a 240 gram stone with the owner of the first 320g stone, has this been confirmed yet? The only 'officially' paired stone that I am aware of is NWA 7533 weighing in at 84 grams. If all of the stones that are 'guaranteed' paired to NWA 7034 by Moroccan dealers, the combined weight is exceeding 1000 grams which is pretty cool for such a unique meteorite! Congrats again to all involved in bringing this new Martian meteorite to light! Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Hi Anne, I have to agree with you a bit about acronyms, and I do think that Martian, Basalt Breccia is a fine simple descriptive type for NWA 7034 -- hey, that's what I classified it as! But, I think it is worth clarifying that eucrites are HEDs (howardite, eucrite, diogenite) and of course some of the eucrites are breccias. The difference for NWA 7034 is that is not a shergottite breccia, a nakhlite breccia, or chassignite breccia -- not an SNC type martian meteorite. It is an alkali-rich basalt, thus a new type of martian -- which also happens to be a breccia. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Anne Black impact...@aol.com wrote: Please, No, no more acronyms! The world is being invaded by those meaningless, un-translatable monstrosities. Lets make it simple. We have had for a long time such a thing as: Achondrite Eucrite Polymict Breccia. Now we can have: Achondrite Martian Basaltic Breccia. Simple as that. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:33 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose saharaite. So we now have the meteorites from Mars or SCANS S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 5102a808.5040...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: Hi Paul, I like the SNCB. It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. Regards, Fred H. How shall we organize the new class of Martian? Until now it has been SNC How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? SNCB What say you all? -Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Hi Jeff and all you Nomenclature Enthusiasts out there: I think the martian meteorite names do serve a useful purpose, they are a sort of short-hand, so that you don’t have to be an igneous petrologist to know that one type of martian is different from another. So when we say a martian meteorite is a “NWA7034-ite”, or “blackbeauty-ite”, or a “saharite” or whatever name you want to pick, we are implicitly talking about a breccia, that is water-rich, alkali basalt, with higher-than-SNC oxygen isotope values, ~ 2 byo, etc. For example, like it or not, when we say “Allan Hills” the first thing comes that comes to mind is ALH 84001. When you say orthopyroxenite maybe not so much. If it’s such a great idea to do away with martian types, why don’t we go ahead and do away with all the carbonaceous chondrite groups like CI, CM, CV, etc. and just call them all carbonaceous chondrites, that of course have a wide range of compositions, textures, mineralogies etc.? Meteoritics isn’t the only science that has colorful nomenclature. Mineralogists still like to name new minerals after famous mineralogists, instead of just naming them by their chemical composition or crystal structure. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ -- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 15:27:06 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 51043c1a.9040...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Meteorite group names are not invented by NomCom, and certainly not by NASA. The come from usage in the scientific literature. I think we have to remember why names like shergottite and nakhlite came into being. Scientists like to group similar things to help bring order to chaos. When you know next to nothing, you start by putting similar things together that you can study as a group. Once you learn more, relationships may be found among them. In this case, several groups plus a few oddballs seem to share a common origin: Mars. At this point, it doesn't really help anything to continue to generate trivial names for new groupings. The big advance has been made, and we can call them Martian meteorites. That means it is time to start treating all of these meteorites like we do geological specimens on Earth, using standard kinds of lithologic names. I know the old trivial names will die hard, and a term like shergottite will be with us for a long time. But there is no good reason to continue creating new trivial names. ALH 84001 need only be called a Martian pyroxenite (assuming this is the best rock name for it). If 10 more of these are found, they only need to be called Martian pyroxenites; there is no need to define a useless new term like allanhillsites. The same goes for NWA 7034, which we can call a Martian alkali-rich basalt, or whatever Carl says it is. Note that nomenclature for lunar meteorites was never burdened with trivial names, as there were no famous historical falls or finds. After 30 years, lunar anorthosite meteorites are still just called lunar anorthosites. Scientists don't need to put them in a trival category like calcalongites to distinguish them from the basaltic kalahariites... this would only obscure what we know about all of these, and nobody will ever do it. So let's forget about inventing terms like saharanite or morrocanite or allanhillsite or whatever. (And while we're at it, let's consider forgetting about shergottite, chassignite and nakhlite.) They're unnecessary and useless to science. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Hi Jeff, Of course the comparison between chondrite groups and martian types is not perfect. The different martian types are not from different parent bodies, but we still don't know where they come from on Mars, and won't for a long time, not until we know the geology of Mars better. So for a large body like a planet, and given our fragmentary knowledge of Mars, different regions are more or less equivalent to different parent bodies. Describing martians with generic lithologic names that were developed for Earth geology is useful, but for example we don't hesitate to use the term mid-ocean ridge basalts (MORB) for Earth's most abundant rock type, which will never be found on Mars. The same is true for Mars because of a different planetary evolution. We are already doing this based on rover data, the term Gusev basalt is one example. SNC's plus ALH 84001 and NWA 7034 are, each type, glimpses of diversity of Mars' unique geology. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ -- Forwarded message -- From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 00:06:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 There are two reasons why we can't get rid of carbonaceous chondrite group names. First, unlike Martian meteorites, we don't know where C chondrites came from. We can't point to a single asteroid as the source for any of them, let alone all of them. So the group names are still serving their basic purpose of ordering the chaos. Second, the only language we have to describe the rocks known as chondrites is by their group names. They can't be described with standard rock nomenclature. So this is not a fair comparison. I didn't say Martian meteorite names were not useful. I said they were archaic, historical artifacts. Jeff On 1/26/2013 11:38 PM, Carl Agee wrote: Hi Jeff and all you Nomenclature Enthusiasts out there: I think the martian meteorite names do serve a useful purpose, they are a sort of short-hand, so that you don’t have to be an igneous petrologist to know that one type of martian is different from another. So when we say a martian meteorite is a “NWA7034-ite”, or “blackbeauty-ite”, or a “saharite” or whatever name you want to pick, we are implicitly talking about a breccia, that is water-rich, alkali basalt, with higher-than-SNC oxygen isotope values, ~ 2 byo, etc. For example, like it or not, when we say “Allan Hills” the first thing comes that comes to mind is ALH 84001. When you say orthopyroxenite maybe not so much. If it’s such a great idea to do away with martian types, why don’t we go ahead and do away with all the carbonaceous chondrite groups like CI, CM, CV, etc. and just call them all carbonaceous chondrites, that of course have a wide range of compositions, textures, mineralogies etc.? Meteoritics isn’t the only science that has colorful nomenclature. Mineralogists still like to name new minerals after famous mineralogists, instead of just naming them by their chemical composition or crystal structure. Carl Agee __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Alan, Very good point, but now because of the appearance of NWA 7034 the waning usefulness of distinct martian types is actually reversed and becomes more relevant. In the past few years we have seen so many new shergottite finds, but they are all more or less the same rocks as in the collections, so nothing really new, and we all thought SNC=martian meterorite. NWA 7034 is quite different, it is not just another SNC, it is showing us that the SNCs are probably a small biased sampling of Mars -- but we already knew that from rover and orbiter data. So now it is useful to say SNC+NWA7034=martian meteorite, and make the statement that no, this is not just another shergottite, only brecciated. Carl On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Alan Rubin aeru...@ucla.edu wrote: The bottom line in all of this is that meteorite group names will last only as long as they're useful. The literature of the past is littered with group names such as grahamites and others I've forgotten because they fell out of use. Similarly, the term SNC is not used much these days although the individual group names survive. If scientisits no longer find it useful to use the term shergottite, then it will gradually fall out of use. If folks invent new names and no one uses them, then it doesn't really matter. An interesting analogy is that there are some unpopular models for chondrule formation, for example, (say gamma-ray bursts) that no one uses and thus don't pollute the literature. Alan Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 Hi Jeff, Of course the comparison between chondrite groups and martian types is not perfect. The different martian types are not from different parent bodies, but we still don't know where they come from on Mars, and won't for a long time, not until we know the geology of Mars better. So for a large body like a planet, and given our fragmentary knowledge of Mars, different regions are more or less equivalent to different parent bodies. Describing martians with generic lithologic names that were developed for Earth geology is useful, but for example we don't hesitate to use the term mid-ocean ridge basalts (MORB) for Earth's most abundant rock type, which will never be found on Mars. The same is true for Mars because of a different planetary evolution. We are already doing this based on rover data, the term Gusev basalt is one example. SNC's plus ALH 84001 and NWA 7034 are, each type, glimpses of diversity of Mars' unique geology. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ -- Forwarded message -- From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 00:06:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 There are two reasons why we can't get rid of carbonaceous chondrite group names. First, unlike Martian meteorites, we don't know where C chondrites came from. We can't point to a single asteroid as the source for any of them, let alone all of them. So the group names are still serving their basic purpose of ordering the chaos. Second, the only language we have to describe the rocks known as chondrites is by their group names. They can't be described with standard rock nomenclature. So this is not a fair comparison. I didn't say Martian meteorite names were not useful. I said they were archaic, historical artifacts. Jeff On 1/26/2013 11:38 PM, Carl Agee wrote: Hi Jeff and all you Nomenclature Enthusiasts out there: I think the martian meteorite names do serve a useful purpose, they are a sort of short-hand, so that you don’t have to be an igneous petrologist to know that one type of martian is different from another. So when we say a martian meteorite is a “NWA7034-ite”, or “blackbeauty-ite”, or a “saharite” or whatever name you want to pick, we are implicitly talking about a breccia, that is water-rich, alkali basalt, with higher-than-SNC oxygen isotope values, ~ 2 byo, etc. For example, like it or not, when we say “Allan Hills” the first thing comes that comes to mind is ALH 84001. When you say orthopyroxenite maybe not so much. If it’s such a great idea to do away with martian types, why don’t we go ahead and do away with all the carbonaceous chondrite
Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Black Beauty
Hi Jason, I looked at your link. I think you need to revise it since it contains false information about the cutting of Black Beauty (NWA 7034) -- at least if you are referring to the 320 g main mass that is at the IOM? The cutting was done with distilled water -- NOT ethylene glycol (antifreeze). Also, stating in your link that our samples were messed with seems to be a rather unusual way to describe cutting with a fine diamond wire. If you want to know anything specific about Black Beauty, I would be happy to talk to you about it and how to identify it in hand sample and nature of the reduced carbon -- my team has been studying this meteorite with numerous lab techniques since August 2011. PS: the Science Article print version will be on newsstands Feb. 15. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 3:24 AM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I just finished the page for some fragments of the unique water and soil-bearing Martian regolith breccia paired with NWA 7034 and a few other stones. Please see our website for available specimens. http://www.fallsandfinds.com/page88.php Thanks! Jason IMCA 7630 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Black Beauty
Hi Mendy, No, cutting in distilled water has no effect on the oxygen isotopes of the bulk rock, nor does it affect the hydrogen isotopes of the martian water in NWA 7034. Simply drying the slice after cutting is all you need to do. Remember, this is a desert meteorite, exposing it to distilled water for a few minutes at room temperature in a saw is nothing compared to many years of exposure to the elements in the Sahara. Nonetheless, NWA 7034 is relatively unweathered meteorite, it is amazingly hard and solid, tough to chip or break. I attribute this to its welding during volcanoclastic eruption and/or impact. The only weathering products we have identified in NWA 7034 are some fine calcite veins that can be traced back to the surface. These are found primarily in the outer edges, and are less common the deeper you go into the 320 g main mass. On the other hand, we are planning to break some material from the deep interior, without water, to search for any water soluble minerals that may be affected by water cutting. Lots of work still to do! -- mainly because every slice Black Beauty shows something new. In my opinion, this rock is actually a volcanic conglomerate, that has picked up pebbles and soil particles during its flow over the martian surface or during impact. So, in a way each new piece of Black Beauty may reveal something more about Mars. I'll stop there, as you can see asking me about NWA 7034 is dangerous -- especially if you are not ready for a lengthy reply! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote: Carl, I'm curious. Would cutting the stone in distilled water affect the oxygen isotope ratios? If I remember correctly that was one indicator that was used as proof of water on Mars. Thank you! Mendy On Feb 13, 2013, at 11:37 PM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Carl, On the contrary, the only reason I included the statement regarding ethylene glycol was because I was informed by a customer that at least some of the material on the market had been cut with synthetic lubricant. S/he made a point of purchasing specimens that had not been 'messed with' after making inquiries. And, yes, that statement applies. Perhaps not to the material from the 320 gram stone, but the vast majority of the material I have seen for sale has come from other sources. I've only seen a few grams of slices from Mr. Piatek's stone, but it does not surprise me that you would have curated it well. Though I will say that it was a bit steep. Regards, Jason On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi Jason, I looked at your link. I think you need to revise it since it contains false information about the cutting of Black Beauty (NWA 7034) -- at least if you are referring to the 320 g main mass that is at the IOM? The cutting was done with distilled water -- NOT ethylene glycol (antifreeze). Also, stating in your link that our samples were messed with seems to be a rather unusual way to describe cutting with a fine diamond wire. If you want to know anything specific about Black Beauty, I would be happy to talk to you about it and how to identify it in hand sample and nature of the reduced carbon -- my team has been studying this meteorite with numerous lab techniques since August 2011. PS: the Science Article print version will be on newsstands Feb. 15. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 3:24 AM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I just finished the page for some fragments of the unique water and soil-bearing Martian regolith breccia paired with NWA 7034 and a few other stones. Please see our website for available specimens. http://www.fallsandfinds.com/page88.php Thanks! Jason IMCA 7630 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http
Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Black Beauty
Hi Jason, I wasn't aware that there were slices of Black Beauty cut by anyone other than Matt Morgan or myself. We both used distilled water. As you can imagine, I am much more interested in Black Beauty science than the business end -- I'll let others worry about the market value. What's that slogan again in the VISA ads? Best, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:37 AM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Carl, On the contrary, the only reason I included the statement regarding ethylene glycol was because I was informed by a customer that at least some of the material on the market had been cut with synthetic lubricant. S/he made a point of purchasing specimens that had not been 'messed with' after making inquiries. And, yes, that statement applies. Perhaps not to the material from the 320 gram stone, but the vast majority of the material I have seen for sale has come from other sources. I've only seen a few grams of slices from Mr. Piatek's stone, but it does not surprise me that you would have curated it well. Though I will say that it was a bit steep. Regards, Jason On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi Jason, I looked at your link. I think you need to revise it since it contains false information about the cutting of Black Beauty (NWA 7034) -- at least if you are referring to the 320 g main mass that is at the IOM? The cutting was done with distilled water -- NOT ethylene glycol (antifreeze). Also, stating in your link that our samples were messed with seems to be a rather unusual way to describe cutting with a fine diamond wire. If you want to know anything specific about Black Beauty, I would be happy to talk to you about it and how to identify it in hand sample and nature of the reduced carbon -- my team has been studying this meteorite with numerous lab techniques since August 2011. PS: the Science Article print version will be on newsstands Feb. 15. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 3:24 AM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I just finished the page for some fragments of the unique water and soil-bearing Martian regolith breccia paired with NWA 7034 and a few other stones. Please see our website for available specimens. http://www.fallsandfinds.com/page88.php Thanks! Jason IMCA 7630 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Black Beauty
I agree, in fact I have done numerous break/chip/cleave on BB, especially for the destructive analyses for isotopes. But the flat surfaces from saw cuts, ground and polished, are needed for microprobe and SEM. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: A sterile set of manual tools works wonders - good old fashioned cleave/break/chip. :) -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 2/14/13, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi Mendy, No, cutting in distilled water has no effect on the oxygen isotopes of the bulk rock, nor does it affect the hydrogen isotopes of the martian water in NWA 7034. Simply drying the slice after cutting is all you need to do. Remember, this is a desert meteorite, exposing it to distilled water for a few minutes at room temperature in a saw is nothing compared to many years of exposure to the elements in the Sahara. Nonetheless, NWA 7034 is relatively unweathered meteorite, it is amazingly hard and solid, tough to chip or break. I attribute this to its welding during volcanoclastic eruption and/or impact. The only weathering products we have identified in NWA 7034 are some fine calcite veins that can be traced back to the surface. These are found primarily in the outer edges, and are less common the deeper you go into the 320 g main mass. On the other hand, we are planning to break some material from the deep interior, without water, to search for any water soluble minerals that may be affected by water cutting. Lots of work still to do! -- mainly because every slice Black Beauty shows something new. In my opinion, this rock is actually a volcanic conglomerate, that has picked up pebbles and soil particles during its flow over the martian surface or during impact. So, in a way each new piece of Black Beauty may reveal something more about Mars. I'll stop there, as you can see asking me about NWA 7034 is dangerous -- especially if you are not ready for a lengthy reply! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote: Carl, I'm curious. Would cutting the stone in distilled water affect the oxygen isotope ratios? If I remember correctly that was one indicator that was used as proof of water on Mars. Thank you! Mendy On Feb 13, 2013, at 11:37 PM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Carl, On the contrary, the only reason I included the statement regarding ethylene glycol was because I was informed by a customer that at least some of the material on the market had been cut with synthetic lubricant. S/he made a point of purchasing specimens that had not been 'messed with' after making inquiries. And, yes, that statement applies. Perhaps not to the material from the 320 gram stone, but the vast majority of the material I have seen for sale has come from other sources. I've only seen a few grams of slices from Mr. Piatek's stone, but it does not surprise me that you would have curated it well. Though I will say that it was a bit steep. Regards, Jason On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi Jason, I looked at your link. I think you need to revise it since it contains false information about the cutting of Black Beauty (NWA 7034) -- at least if you are referring to the 320 g main mass that is at the IOM? The cutting was done with distilled water -- NOT ethylene glycol (antifreeze). Also, stating in your link that our samples were messed with seems to be a rather unusual way to describe cutting with a fine diamond wire. If you want to know anything specific about Black Beauty, I would be happy to talk to you about it and how to identify it in hand sample and nature of the reduced carbon -- my team has been studying this meteorite with numerous lab techniques since August 2011. PS: the Science Article print version will be on newsstands Feb. 15. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel
Re: [meteorite-list] Rare space rock goes unnoticed for 140 years - space - 13 December 2013 - New Scientist
Marco, Gefeliciteerd! -Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Marco Langbroek marco.langbr...@online.nl wrote: Hi listoids, No Diepenveen, as the meteorite is now officially called, in the Met Bull, sorry. Best regards. Michel Franco IMCA 3869 That's because the meteorite still has to be submitted. It's not an official name yet. It will probably be submitted in the next few weeks after some additional microprobe work to complement earlier preliminary work. I am one of the PI's on this meteorite. The meteorite is officially the 5th meteorite of the Netherlands in the sense that we have established it is a meteorite indeed, a CM Carbonaceous meteorite more exactly, and not paired to a known meteorite. Last Thursday, the former owner of the meteorite in a ceremony handed over the stone to the Dutch National Museum of Natural History in Leiden, with press present, hence why it is in the news now. For some pictures of the stone, see here: http://home.online.nl/marco.langbroek/diepnl.html (apologies that there is only a Dutch text for the moment) More news on this meteorite somewhere next year when we have completed several analysis. Besides our VU University Amsterdam, several international institutions are involved (Oxygen isotopes were done at UNM for example and CRE at UC Berkeley) and research is still ongoing. This is the 5th surviving meteorite of the Netherlands but the third chronologically if we look at the fall date, 27 October 1873. Chronologically it is the 2nd witnessed CM fall, after Cold Bokkeveld. For those of you who master Dutch, there is a TV news item in Dutch about the handover ceremony here, including some short snippets of interview with me, the former owner, and the amateur astronomer who basically 'rediscovered' it in the former owner's rock collection 139 years after it fell: http://youtu.be/8IPR9vrQoR4 There is only one stone (a half stone actually: 50-65% fusion crust), originally weighing 68 grams before sampling. It came in a wooden box with a beautiful hand-written label with details including location, date, time, phenomena, name of the person who picked it up etcetera. With some additional archive research, we can pinpoint the fall location to a few hundred yards. Cheers, - Marco - Dr Marco Langbroek Faculty of Earth and Life Sciences VU University Amsterdam - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rare space rock goes unnoticed for 140 years - space - 13 December 2013 - New Scientist
For those of you who don't understand Dutch, the lady in the YouTube clip is the owner of Diepenveen and she donated it to museum Naturalis (which is the merger of the Royal Museums at Leiden). Neat story, and clearly great publicity for meteoritics! Now just waiting on Karen Ziegler to tell everyone what the oxygen isotopes are :) Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Marco Langbroek marco.langbr...@online.nl wrote: Hi listoids, No Diepenveen, as the meteorite is now officially called, in the Met Bull, sorry. Best regards. Michel Franco IMCA 3869 That's because the meteorite still has to be submitted. It's not an official name yet. It will probably be submitted in the next few weeks after some additional microprobe work to complement earlier preliminary work. I am one of the PI's on this meteorite. The meteorite is officially the 5th meteorite of the Netherlands in the sense that we have established it is a meteorite indeed, a CM Carbonaceous meteorite more exactly, and not paired to a known meteorite. Last Thursday, the former owner of the meteorite in a ceremony handed over the stone to the Dutch National Museum of Natural History in Leiden, with press present, hence why it is in the news now. For some pictures of the stone, see here: http://home.online.nl/marco.langbroek/diepnl.html (apologies that there is only a Dutch text for the moment) More news on this meteorite somewhere next year when we have completed several analysis. Besides our VU University Amsterdam, several international institutions are involved (Oxygen isotopes were done at UNM for example and CRE at UC Berkeley) and research is still ongoing. This is the 5th surviving meteorite of the Netherlands but the third chronologically if we look at the fall date, 27 October 1873. Chronologically it is the 2nd witnessed CM fall, after Cold Bokkeveld. For those of you who master Dutch, there is a TV news item in Dutch about the handover ceremony here, including some short snippets of interview with me, the former owner, and the amateur astronomer who basically 'rediscovered' it in the former owner's rock collection 139 years after it fell: http://youtu.be/8IPR9vrQoR4 There is only one stone (a half stone actually: 50-65% fusion crust), originally weighing 68 grams before sampling. It came in a wooden box with a beautiful hand-written label with details including location, date, time, phenomena, name of the person who picked it up etcetera. With some additional archive research, we can pinpoint the fall location to a few hundred yards. Cheers, - Marco - Dr Marco Langbroek Faculty of Earth and Life Sciences VU University Amsterdam - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ADVERT: Subtype 3.00 — NO RESERVE
Hi Mendy, Yes, NWA 7731 crust is quite fresh. The standard weathering grades for ordinary chondrites based on the oxidation of iron-nickel-metal is somewhat problematic for the most unequilibrated of the 3-subtypes because the matrix is actually a very fine opaque mixture of sulfur and iron that is hard to characterize for degree of weathering. In the meantime, since it was classified, we have done oxygen isotopes on the bulk sample and they are very heterogeneous (some actually plot on the TFL) as one would expect based on the earlier work on Semarkona. There has been ion probe and Raman done at Hawaii and some of this will be reported at the 2014 LPSC -- I'll post the abstract when they are published later this January. There is some indication that extraterrestrial aqueous alteration has affected the matrix -- but even Semarkona has some of this type of aqueous alteration. Subtypes 3.00 ( like L2.9 etc.) are not used in OC even though some aqueous alteration might be present. A while back Hutchison et al. (1987) proposed that Semarkona is in fact LL2, but it doesn't seem like that idea ever caught on. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote: Wow Darryl, that slice of NWA7731 is amazing. I vaguely recall a discussion on the list regarding this L3.00, but do not recall the weathering. Based on the description in the MetBull it is hard to ascertain the actual weathering grade. From the picture of the crust in the listing, it looks pretty fresh. Hoping Carl can jump in and provide some insights and hoping I have not asked this vaguely familiar question before. Mendy Ouzillou From: Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com To: meteorite-list List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 9:17 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] ADVERT: Subtype 3.00 — NO RESERVE Hi Folks! Hoping you're well. Select auctions ending late this afternoon — all with no reserve: http://bit.ly/1gHpc8M Featuring NWA 7731 - subtype 3.00 - along with Semarkona (which is untouchable) this is THE most primitive, unequilibrated planetary material that exists—and it's a complete slice! NWA 5717 - subtype 3.05 - two edges of fusion crust along with a rare dark inclusion; TISSINT - two edges sides of fusion crust; VALERA - the only meteorite known to have killed an animal; KAINSAZ - rare CO3.2 witnessed fall; NWA 7944 - a new, fresh Martian meteorite; NWA 7214 - the freshest aubrite obtainable (W0/W1) that is not a witnessed fall; Good luck and Happy Holidays! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung? Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Nice GeoChem data. Interesting to see the XFR data included. Happy New Year! Jim Wooddell On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote: Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6963 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Mike, No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene geochem data are garden variety EOC. I guess looks can be deceiving -- yet another testimony to lab data being the blind taste test. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green crystals throughout the matrix, very odd meteorites, everyone who looked at it thought it was an achondrite, including many scientists. I've never seen an L6 with white matrix and some pieces nearly green with crystals. Not your garden variety L6 for sure. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung? Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Nice GeoChem data. Interesting to see the XFR data included. Happy New Year! Jim Wooddell On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote: Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6963 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Mike, Andy, Jim, I don't have bias one way or another in the case of Katol, but looking at the data in the write-up this is a clear-cut L6 chondrite -- no ambiguity. There are chondrules albeit highly equilbrated, the olivines are L6, the pyroxenes are L6, the oxygen isotopes are L-chondrite. If there were no chondrules, high Wo and OC-type olivine and pyroxene, then one could make the case for type 7. I'm just going by the numbers given in the write-up, I haven't looked at this beyond a quick glance in hand specimen, not an achondrite -- period. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: I was also under the impression that this was transitional likely between L chondrites and primitive achondrites. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Andy Tomkins rockdo...@gmail.com wrote: With great respect and just to be a little bit controversial... With a high wollastonite content in the opx like that, sparse remnant chondrules and many of the other features, perhaps this might be a L7? An example of why there needs to be a clearer definition of what defines Type 6 from Type 7? Andy Tomkins On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Andy Tomkins wrote: On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Carl Agee wrote: Hi Mike, No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene geochem data are garden variety EOC. I guess looks can be deceiving -- yet another testimony to lab data being the blind taste test. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green crystals throughout the matrix, very odd meteorites, everyone who looked at it thought it was an achondrite, including many scientists. I've never seen an L6 with white matrix and some pieces nearly green with crystals. Not your garden variety L6 for sure. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung? Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Nice GeoChem data. Interesting to see the XFR data included. Happy New Year! Jim Wooddell On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote: Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6963 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Vis __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Jason, The lab data suggest more than just L. The low standard deviation on the Fa and Fs indicate type 5 or 6, with the the faint chondrules and high Wo we are definitely at type 6. Just because it's hard to see the chondrules with a petrographic microscope doesn't mean they aren't there. I hope you aren't suggesting that we go back to optically determining 2Vs in olivine to get the Fa-content. Electron microprobes are modern the workhorse for classification, add in oxygen isotopes and you have it pretty much covered. Carl PS: the albitic plagioclase in Katol is OC plag. * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: The lab data you (Carl) mention suggests only L, nothing more. No one's arguing with that. We had that data months ago. As I understand it, not one chondrule was observed optically in Katol; they were found only when examining BSE images. This would have ruled out a chondritic classification prior to the widespread use of SEM's. And the fact that we're discussing this now is relevant; no other type 6 chondrite has been metamorphosed to this extent (literally invisible chondrules, unless you have a multi-million dollar piece of equipment at your disposal). Since this meteorite doesn't texturally resemble any known L's, having been melted and slowly cooled to a poikilitic texture, deeming it an L6 is pigeonholing it. Larger-scale heterogeneities resulted in 140 gram iron meteorites and 200+ gram literally metallic-iron-free meteorites with glossy Ca-rich fusion crusts. Such things aren't usually glossed over when classifying a meteorite. It's just like calling Al Haggounia 001 an aubrite, EL6/7, or EL3. Just because you can justify a classification with a few parameters doesn't make it an accurate descriptor of a meteorite. Which of those classifications is best? EL3. Is it right? No. That stone doesn't texturally resemble any other (enstatite) chondrites of any kind. It's anomalous. Rather like Katol. Jason www.fallsandfinds.com On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi Mike, No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene geochem data are garden variety EOC. I guess looks can be deceiving -- yet another testimony to lab data being the blind taste test. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green crystals throughout the matrix, very odd meteorites, everyone who looked at it thought it was an achondrite, including many scientists. I've never seen an L6 with white matrix and some pieces nearly green with crystals. Not your garden variety L6 for sure. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung? Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Nice GeoChem data. Interesting to see the XFR data included. Happy New Year! Jim Wooddell On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote: Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Jason et al. Nice that the Met-list is lively again! Poikilitic shergotitte is Tony Irving's invention and woe to those who don't use that term, and instead use the antiquated lherzolitic. I'm one of those old fashion people who actually like the term lherzolitic shergottite, but have succumb to severe peer-pressure and now use poikilitic in my write-ups. I did have a chance recently to invent another new martian meteorite name Augite Basalt (NWA 8159), which I am sure will be subject to all sorts of nomenclature pot-shots. Also I have been told by several experts that NWA 7034 is regolith breccia and not a basaltic breccia. Happy New Year! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Carl, All, The low standard deviation on Fa and Fs denotes a high degree of equilibration, not just 5 or 6. Five or above would be more accurate. The nearly absent chondrules and high Wo are at [or beyond] type 6. If you're a researcher who believes in type 7 chondrites, since not all do. Based upon similar observations, one would simply call Al Haggounia 001 an aubrite, or an EL3 if one were lucky enough to find an unequilibrated chondrule. The textural observations would be irrelevant. If we looked at other meteorites in a similar fashion, subgroups and textural designations would disappear. Since nomenclature blows back and forth, this is something of a semantic argument; as I understand it, the poikilitic shergottite you recently analyzed would have been a lherzolite only a few years ago, and no amount of discussion then or now would have changed that. And there is of course variation in analyses. NWA 5205 is paired with NWA 5421 and our NWA 6501. Which was supposedly paired with NWA 6283. Very distinctive material, with classifications ranging from LL3.2 to LL3.7 to H3.6. But you did note that the shergottite was poikilitic. So is Katol. This stone has been metamorphosed in a unique way for a chondrite, and its classification required a much greater degree of attention because of that. But the result does not reflect that. Just like Al Haggounia 001, the aubrite. It's odd, and I do think that 'pigeonholing' is the right term to use here. Regards, Jason www.fallsandfinds.com On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Mike, Andy, Jim, I don't have bias one way or another in the case of Katol, but looking at the data in the write-up this is a clear-cut L6 chondrite -- no ambiguity. There are chondrules albeit highly equilbrated, the olivines are L6, the pyroxenes are L6, the oxygen isotopes are L-chondrite. If there were no chondrules, high Wo and OC-type olivine and pyroxene, then one could make the case for type 7. I'm just going by the numbers given in the write-up, I haven't looked at this beyond a quick glance in hand specimen, not an achondrite -- period. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: I was also under the impression that this was transitional likely between L chondrites and primitive achondrites. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Andy Tomkins rockdo...@gmail.com wrote: With great respect and just to be a little bit controversial... With a high wollastonite content in the opx like that, sparse remnant chondrules and many of the other features, perhaps this might be a L7? An example of why there needs to be a clearer definition of what defines Type 6 from Type 7? Andy Tomkins On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Andy Tomkins wrote: On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Carl Agee wrote: Hi Mike, No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene geochem data are garden variety EOC. I guess looks can be deceiving -- yet another testimony to lab data being the blind taste test. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Mike's photo in posted in the database now. Jeff On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Mike's photo in posted in the database now. Jeff On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece? * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: No chondrules. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin... Graham On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Mike's photo in posted in the database now. Jeff On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Check out the geochem plots now posted in the MetBull for Katol: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/drawplot.php?x=24.9y=0.4plot=2label=Katol%20%28L6%29 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/drawplot.php?x=21.9y=0.5plot=3label=Katol%20%28L6%29 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/drawplot.php?x=24.9y=21.9plot=1label=Katol%20%28L6%29 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/drawplot.php?x=4.961;4.867y=3.549;3.596z=0.930;1.026plot=10label=Katol%20%28L6%29 * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: There are many variations in Katol, some pieces were almost achondrite-like shiny glossy crust, some were more chondritic looking, others were all or partial iron. I know of 5 complete iron pieces. It is not heterogenous. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@e.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! I have not seen Katol, except for your sample. Am I assuming correctly that your high iron specimen is what is mentioned in the write-up? If it is, does this mean your specimen is not representative of the others? The way I read it, it is not. What do the other samples look like? Jim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike and List, Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story one day. I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was a little scary. There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is obviously not an L6 chondrite. So what do we call a mass like Mike's superb iron shield? Do we refer to his specimen as Katol (L6) or do we refer to it as something else? Does Katol have some similarity with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield? So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group. Has anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's that don't match the majority lithology? I'd be curious if they also fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a ride in the Katol rubble-pile. Good stuff. It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 1/1/14, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece? * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: No chondrules. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin... Graham On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Mike, Given the wide range of lithologies we are hearing about, all I am saying it might be interesting to test the multiple lithologies and confirm what you are saying. I am not suggesting anything about multiple bodies or not, I don't have an opinion. I am simply describing how you could provide geochem evidence to form a well supported hypothesis. By the way, Laurence's BSE's on FB are unequivocal L6 -- nice equilibrated chondrules! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, you you suggesting this might be from different fall? I was there less than two weeks after the fall. I bought pieces as they were being found right in front of us. When we showed up with cash the whole village ran around picking up stones in 52 degree C (120f) heat. There were stones everywhere including on the street. No one cared until we came with money. We found one stone ourselves. Nearly every villager had stones. It is dead center India, among the poorest places on earth. I saw 5 iron only pieces and numerous partial iron and partial stone pieces. Whatever Katol is, (L6), it has large iron chunks inside and some become complete individuals during the fall. I really would like I clarify that this piece is Katol, I was there as it was found, we bought it seconds after the finder picked it up from beside his house. Can we please accept that this is Katol, not another meteorite! Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 8:48 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike and List, Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story one day. I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was a little scary. There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is obviously not an L6 chondrite. So what do we call a mass like Mike's superb iron shield? Do we refer to his specimen as Katol (L6) or do we refer to it as something else? Does Katol have some similarity with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield? So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group. Has anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's that don't match the majority lithology? I'd be curious if they also fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a ride in the Katol rubble-pile. Good stuff. It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 1/1/14, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece? * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico
Re: [meteorite-list] What is more important in classification?
Hi Jim, The electron microprobe is the workhorse for classifications, and most of this can be done simply with a probe mount (epoxy mounted sample that has been polished). In general you don't need a thin section or a petrographic microscope, although I always use a reflected light petrographic microscope for reconnaissance of the probe mount before it goes on the electron probe. The electron microprobe produces quantitative data that is usually necessary for detailed, high quality classification of chondrites and achondrites. For example the chemical compositions of fine grained olivines, pyroxenes, feldspars, etc. (which are diagnostic for classification) can really only be done with high precision by the electron microprobe. On the other hand, a polished thin section is nice because it can be both microprobed and be used for optical examination. There are some useful things you can do with transmitted light microscopy, such as describe shock effects and weathering and other optical subtleties that will not be easy to see with backscatter electrons. A lot of this type of detail though is not really needed for a classification. It gets into the realm of a research project, where you might also want TEM or age dating or cosmic ray exposure and so on -- the list of instruments is very long... Thin sections are more work to make than probe mounts. For iron meteorites usually a probe mount is all you need, because all you will be doing is looking at or analyzing the surface. And for irons, bulk chemical analyses are usually done for classification, which is not usually the case for chondrites and achondrites -- although for lunars INAA is great for grouping the breccias. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi all! Just a few general questions... The involves a mount and a thin section. What is more important now-a-days in classification? This mainly revolves some questions I have that I am not sure how to ask...mainly to those that classify. If you have a million dollar Scanning Election Microscope and can probe around and can determine classification from the geochem and BSE images, how important is it to see the transmitted and reflected features in a petrographic microscope? I suppose my thoughts and questions are possibly in reference to new technology vs. old technologymaybe not...but close and really deeper than just yes and no answers. Not that SEM's are new technology...just saying. I was told a while back you can not classify without both. So Why??? Are the SEM's not capable of doing what a petrographic microscope can do? Thanks! Jim -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
