Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Hi all, I always include my own specimen card with any specimen that i sell on and have done since i started collecting. This is not because i place any importance on myself or the 'added value' that this might place on a specimen but because i do feel it is important to show the chain of custody of each and every specimen, whether a small micromount or a museum piece. To me this chain of ownership is important whether you are a dealer, a big name famous historic collector or a brand new collector, it makes no difference but just adds to the story of each specimen. If i have refinished a specimen and lost some weight in the process i write the new weight on my card and in the comments section at the bottom i add that due to refinishing the weight has changed whilst in my temporary custody. I have numerous specimens where the chain of ownership is shown by 6 or more specimen cards of various dealers or collectors. In some of these there have been numerous weight changes down the line yet from the cards i can see who did what and when, this is important info and needs to be recorded. On this note although i understand why some dealers do not include previous owners cards to not make obvious where they obtained the specimen i have to say it is a pet hate of mine when this happens. I like to have as much information as possible on the provenance of every piece and the chain of ownership as Mike says is a big part of this. Good discussion! Cheers Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Hi all, I appreciate the points you make Mike G and understand where you are coming from. However i am not saying that the cards 'prove' the chain of ownership only add to the overall picture. Of course you are right in what you say about having trust in the person you are acquiring specimens from is paramount. You are also correct in saying that it would be relatively easy in to falsify and copy other peoples cards but in reality that would be easily detectable. From my point of view when spending a lot of money on a historical specimen i will contact previous owners to find out as much as possible about the history of the piece in question. If the card supplied was fake and the person in question had never owned that specimen at all then this would be very obvious. The person who supplied false details would never last very long as a dealer as as we all know reputation is everything! A single post to the metlist would soon sort them out! The amount of times i have contacted previous owners and found out additional things about my collection piece is amazing. Really valuable and interesting info and i have never had any dealer or collector grumble about my enquiries. Like Martin said those dealers/collectors who go the extra mile in supplying and researching their specimens fully are the ones who I appreciate most and get repeat custom from me. I have recently changed the design of my specimen cards from printed ones where i hand wrote the info on to fully printed colour ones. Main reason for now fully printing them is that my handwriting is absolutely awful! ;-) Peoples suggestions about signing them are valid and a good idea. I also agree with with David and Richard in that i really like the variety of the cards supplied by different dealers. Black and white or colour, with photos or without, plain or fancy, historical or contemporary design, all are good in my view and variety is the spice of life. However given the choice between getting a pro forma specimen card that is identical to many others or.not getting one at all then I would definitely prefer getting one. Specimen cards are but one part of the Provenance of specimens but an all important part and in my view should always be supplied whether for a small Campo crystal or a large chunk of historic real estate like Wold Cottage. I fully agree that for bulk low cost items they are certainly less important but to me important all the same. We have to remember that that small Campo crystal may be a new collectors first purchase and in my view even if deemed overkill that little card is still of value and sets a standard for future purchases. I am not saying that for that type of specimen it needs to be an individually written card but maybe a generic one with standard info on Campo del Cielo that could be printed in the hundreds for all specimens of that type. Only my personal view of course and I fully respect other peoples opinions. Cheers Martin Sent from my HTC desire mobile phone. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Hello Rob, Great question. You should always provide your own card (even if the weight changes). The idea is that if everyone did this, and passed original dealer/collector cards along, you could establish a *chain-of-custody*. Chain-of-custody is an important component of provenance. As pieces continue to be sectioned down or change hands, provenance is more important than ever. With the influx of new collectors, we all need to set higher standards so that this precious information gets passed down. Cheers, Mike Bandli Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 -Original Message- From: Rob Lenssen [mailto:rlens...@planet.nl] Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:12 PM To: 'Mike Bandli'; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list]Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi Mike and List, Concerning Meteorite-Cards... I like to have my stone-type meteorite slices sanded at one side and polished at the other. After buying slices, they typically arrive as-cut. So I have to sand and polish them myself. As you can guess, afterwards the mass doesnt correspond to the mass on the cards anymore. Assume I would choose to sell a slice. Should I stripe the original mass, and put a new figure (plus my name?) on the original card (as I would choose to do), or should I make my own new card, or choose even a different option? What would be the best choice? Wonder if we could work out a preferred approach here. All the best, Rob Lenssen AsteroidChipping.com -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Namens Mike Bandli Verzonden: vrijdag 4 maart 2011 17:24 Aan: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Onderwerp: [meteorite-list] Free Meteorite Card Template In response to requests for specimen card templates, I have uploaded a template I designed for free use: http://historicmeteorites.com/HistoricMeteorites/labels.html Feel free to edit/tailor it for your personal requirements. Cheers, Mike Bandli --- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Hi Mike and List, Concerning Meteorite-Cards... I like to have my stone-type meteorite slices sanded at one side and polished at the other. After buying slices, they typically arrive as-cut. So I have to sand and polish them myself. As you can guess, afterwards the mass doesnt correspond to the mass on the cards anymore. Assume I would choose to sell a slice. Should I stripe the original mass, and put a new figure (plus my name?) on the original card (as I would choose to do), or should I make my own new card, or choose even a different option? What would be the best choice? Wonder if we could work out a preferred approach here. All the best, Rob Lenssen AsteroidChipping.com -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Namens Mike Bandli Verzonden: vrijdag 4 maart 2011 17:24 Aan: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Onderwerp: [meteorite-list] Free Meteorite Card Template In response to requests for specimen card templates, I have uploaded a template I designed for free use: http://historicmeteorites.com/HistoricMeteorites/labels.html Feel free to edit/tailor it for your personal requirements. Cheers, Mike Bandli --- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
I agree. I keep all the cards you guys send me when I purchase. I have been thinking about doing my own card but it really is meaning less not being an IMCA member or the original finder. Maybe make an entry on the back of the original card as to whom you received it from and forward it when you sell it. Stuart McD Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: Hello Rob, Great question. You should always provide your own card (even if the weight changes). The idea is that if everyone did this, and passed original dealer/collector cards along, you could establish a *chain-of-custody*. Chain-of-custody is an important component of provenance. As pieces continue to be sectioned down or change hands, provenance is more important than ever. With the influx of new collectors, we all need to set higher standards so that this precious information gets passed down. Cheers, Mike Bandli Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 -Original Message- From: Rob Lenssen [mailto:rlens...@planet.nl] Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:12 PM To: 'Mike Bandli'; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list]Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi Mike and List, Concerning Meteorite-Cards... I like to have my stone-type meteorite slices sanded at one side and polished at the other. After buying slices, they typically arrive as-cut. So I have to sand and polish them myself. As you can guess, afterwards the mass doesnt correspond to the mass on the cards anymore. Assume I would choose to sell a slice. Should I stripe the original mass, and put a new figure (plus my name?) on the original card (as I would choose to do), or should I make my own new card, or choose even a different option? What would be the best choice? Wonder if we could work out a preferred approach here. All the best, Rob Lenssen AsteroidChipping.com -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Namens Mike Bandli Verzonden: vrijdag 4 maart 2011 17:24 Aan: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Onderwerp: [meteorite-list] Free Meteorite Card Template In response to requests for specimen card templates, I have uploaded a template I designed for free use: http://historicmeteorites.com/HistoricMeteorites/labels.html Feel free to edit/tailor it for your personal requirements. Cheers, Mike Bandli --- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Hello Mike, Thanks for the answer. But would you mark the changed mass on the original card, or leave it as is, or...? I myself think just passing it down to the next owner would enhance the risk of misplacing a label. The actual mass doesn't correspond to the mass on the label anymore. All the best, Rob -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Mike Bandli [mailto:fuzzf...@comcast.net] Verzonden: vrijdag 4 maart 2011 22:22 Aan: 'Rob Lenssen'; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Onderwerp: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hello Rob, Great question. You should always provide your own card (even if the weight changes). The idea is that if everyone did this, and passed original dealer/collector cards along, you could establish a *chain-of-custody*. Chain-of-custody is an important component of provenance. As pieces continue to be sectioned down or change hands, provenance is more important than ever. With the influx of new collectors, we all need to set higher standards so that this precious information gets passed down. Cheers, Mike Bandli Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 -Original Message- From: Rob Lenssen [mailto:rlens...@planet.nl] Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:12 PM To: 'Mike Bandli'; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list]Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi Mike and List, Concerning Meteorite-Cards... I like to have my stone-type meteorite slices sanded at one side and polished at the other. After buying slices, they typically arrive as-cut. So I have to sand and polish them myself. As you can guess, afterwards the mass doesnt correspond to the mass on the cards anymore. Assume I would choose to sell a slice. Should I stripe the original mass, and put a new figure (plus my name?) on the original card (as I would choose to do), or should I make my own new card, or choose even a different option? What would be the best choice? Wonder if we could work out a preferred approach here. All the best, Rob Lenssen AsteroidChipping.com -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Namens Mike Bandli Verzonden: vrijdag 4 maart 2011 17:24 Aan: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Onderwerp: [meteorite-list] Free Meteorite Card Template In response to requests for specimen card templates, I have uploaded a template I designed for free use: http://historicmeteorites.com/HistoricMeteorites/labels.html Feel free to edit/tailor it for your personal requirements. Cheers, Mike Bandli --- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
In response to Stuart Nininger, DuPont, LaPaz Not IMCA members but I'm glad they made those cards Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 -- From: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net; 'Rob Lenssen' rlens...@planet.nl Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass I agree. I keep all the cards you guys send me when I purchase. I have been thinking about doing my own card but it really is meaning less not being an IMCA member or the original finder. Maybe make an entry on the back of the original card as to whom you received it from and forward it when you sell it. Stuart McD __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
I agree. Being an IMCA member is a nice thing... but its not the end all be all or a reason not to make your own if your not a member... Bob Haag and Mike Farmer (Hope your home soon!) are not members, but have ID cards also. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Fri, 3/4/11, Rob Wesel nakhla...@comcast.net wrote: From: Rob Wesel nakhla...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass To: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net, 'Rob Lenssen' rlens...@planet.nl Date: Friday, March 4, 2011, 4:37 PM In response to Stuart Nininger, DuPont, LaPaz Not IMCA members but I'm glad they made those cards Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 -- From: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net; 'Rob Lenssen' rlens...@planet.nl Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass I agree. I keep all the cards you guys send me when I purchase. I have been thinking about doing my own card but it really is meaning less not being an IMCA member or the original finder. Maybe make an entry on the back of the original card as to whom you received it from and forward it when you sell it. Stuart McD __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Hi Guy's, Thanks for the answers, but - except Stuart's - they are not answering the question how to deal with changing mass. I think everybody will agree that the original card must stay with the piece. I make my own cards only for stones I bought in Morocco and had classified myself. Best, Rob -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Rob Wesel [mailto:nakhla...@comcast.net] Verzonden: vrijdag 4 maart 2011 22:38 Aan: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mike Bandli; 'Rob Lenssen' Onderwerp: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass In response to Stuart Nininger, DuPont, LaPaz Not IMCA members but I'm glad they made those cards Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 -- From: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net; 'Rob Lenssen' rlens...@planet.nl Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass I agree. I keep all the cards you guys send me when I purchase. I have been thinking about doing my own card but it really is meaning less not being an IMCA member or the original finder. Maybe make an entry on the back of the original card as to whom you received it from and forward it when you sell it. Stuart McD __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Nor I Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 -- From: m...@mhmeteorites.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:44 PM To: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com; actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net; 'Rob Lenssen' rlens...@planet.nl; Rob Wesel nakhla...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass I am not a member either. Matt Morgan Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 13:43:03 To: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mike Bandlifuzzf...@comcast.net; 'Rob Lenssen'rlens...@planet.nl; Rob Weselnakhla...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass I agree. Being an IMCA member is a nice thing... but its not the end all be all or a reason not to make your own if your not a member... Bob Haag and Mike Farmer (Hope your home soon!) are not members, but have ID cards also. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Fri, 3/4/11, Rob Wesel nakhla...@comcast.net wrote: From: Rob Wesel nakhla...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass To: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net, 'Rob Lenssen' rlens...@planet.nl Date: Friday, March 4, 2011, 4:37 PM In response to Stuart Nininger, DuPont, LaPaz Not IMCA members but I'm glad they made those cards Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 -- From: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net; 'Rob Lenssen' rlens...@planet.nl Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass I agree. I keep all the cards you guys send me when I purchase. I have been thinking about doing my own card but it really is meaning less not being an IMCA member or the original finder. Maybe make an entry on the back of the original card as to whom you received it from and forward it when you sell it. Stuart McD __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3481 - Release Date: 03/04/11 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Hi Rob, Make your own card that reflects the updated weight and include the original dealer/collector card that reflects the old weight. Cheers, Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lenssen Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:45 PM To: 'Rob Wesel'; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi Guy's, Thanks for the answers, but - except Stuart's - they are not answering the question how to deal with changing mass. I think everybody will agree that the original card must stay with the piece. I make my own cards only for stones I bought in Morocco and had classified myself. Best, Rob -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Rob Wesel [mailto:nakhla...@comcast.net] Verzonden: vrijdag 4 maart 2011 22:38 Aan: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mike Bandli; 'Rob Lenssen' Onderwerp: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass In response to Stuart Nininger, DuPont, LaPaz Not IMCA members but I'm glad they made those cards Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 -- From: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net; 'Rob Lenssen' rlens...@planet.nl Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass I agree. I keep all the cards you guys send me when I purchase. I have been thinking about doing my own card but it really is meaning less not being an IMCA member or the original finder. Maybe make an entry on the back of the original card as to whom you received it from and forward it when you sell it. Stuart McD __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Hi all, I always include my own specimen card with any specimen that i sell on and have done since i started collecting. This is not because i place any importance on myself or the 'added value' that this might place on a specimen but because i do feel it is important to show the chain of custody of each and every specimen, whether a small micromount or a museum piece. To me this chain of ownership is important whether you are a dealer, a big name famous historic collector or a brand new collector, it makes no difference but just adds to the story of each specimen. If i have refinished a specimen and lost some weight in the process i write the new weight on my card and in the comments section at the bottom i add that due to refinishing the weight has changed whilst in my temporary custody. I have numerous specimens where the chain of ownership is shown by 6 or more specimen cards of various dealers or collectors. In some of these there have been numerous weight changes down the line yet from the cards i can see who did what and when, this is important info and needs to be recorded. On this note although i understand why some dealers do not include previous owners cards to not make obvious where they obtained the specimen i have to say it is a pet hate of mine when this happens. I like to have as much information as possible on the provenance of every piece and the chain of ownership as Mike says is a big part of this. Good discussion! Cheers Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Hello Listers, I see that alot of people have their own ways of making ID cards for their meteorites. I have a suggestion that I do for my cards and that is I like to have a section called remarks. In that part I put important info about the meteorite like if it was the first fall in that country, or if it hit something and so on. Down below is a link to a sample card. http://www.flickr.com/photos/48262799@N03/5498168766/ Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass martin goff msgmeteorites at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 17:31:24 EST 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Labels Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hi all, I always include my own specimen card with any specimen that i sell on and have done since i started collecting. This is not because i place any importance on myself or the 'added value' that this might place on a specimen but because i do feel it is important to show the chain of custody of each and every specimen, whether a small micromount or a museum piece. To me this chain of ownership is important whether you are a dealer, a big name famous historic collector or a brand new collector, it makes no difference but just adds to the story of each specimen. If i have refinished a specimen and lost some weight in the process i write the new weight on my card and in the comments section at the bottom i add that due to refinishing the weight has changed whilst in my temporary custody. I have numerous specimens where the chain of ownership is shown by 6 or more specimen cards of various dealers or collectors. In some of these there have been numerous weight changes down the line yet from the cards i can see who did what and when, this is important info and needs to be recorded. On this note although i understand why some dealers do not include previous owners cards to not make obvious where they obtained the specimen i have to say it is a pet hate of mine when this happens. I like to have as much information as possible on the provenance of every piece and the chain of ownership as Mike says is a big part of this. Good discussion! Cheers Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Labels Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Hi Mike, hi Martin (quote) The idea is that if everyone did this, and passed original dealer/collector cards along, you could establish a *chain-of-custody*. Chain-of-custody is an important component of provenance. As pieces continue to be sectioned down or change hands, provenance is more important than ever. With the influx of new collectors, we all need to set higher standards so that this precious information gets passed down. (Mike) (quote) i do feel it is important to show the chain of custody of each and every specimen, whether a small micromount or a museum piece. To me this chain of ownership is important whether you are a dealer, a big name famous historic collector or a brand new collector, it makes no difference but just adds to the story of each specimen. [...] I like to have as much information as possible on the provenance of every piece and the chain of ownership as Mike says is a big part of this. (Martin) I fully agree with you on what you said above. I often ask the dealer or collector I bought a meteorite from about the provenance of the material and some have been very helpful, went down the 'archive' and came up with detailed information. Some provided the older meteorite ID cards as well. I do appreciate that special service very much. For me it's also one of the reasons to buy from that particular dealer again. I think a serious collector just has to ask about the provenance of the meteorite material in order to keep the information and pass it on with the meteorite material one day in the future. This is particularly important when you buy 'historic' falls of 'common' or 'ordinary' meteorite types , I think (though of course meteorites are anything but common or ordinary). It is a good discussion indeed ! Cheers Martin (another one ;-) ) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: martin goff msgmeteori...@gmail.com Gesendet: 04.03.2011 23:31:24 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi all, I always include my own specimen card with any specimen that i sell on and have done since i started collecting. This is not because i place any importance on myself or the 'added value' that this might place on a specimen but because i do feel it is important to show the chain of custody of each and every specimen, whether a small micromount or a museum piece. To me this chain of ownership is important whether you are a dealer, a big name famous historic collector or a brand new collector, it makes no difference but just adds to the story of each specimen. If i have refinished a specimen and lost some weight in the process i write the new weight on my card and in the comments section at the bottom i add that due to refinishing the weight has changed whilst in my temporary custody. I have numerous specimens where the chain of ownership is shown by 6 or more specimen cards of various dealers or collectors. In some of these there have been numerous weight changes down the line yet from the cards i can see who did what and when, this is important info and needs to be recorded. On this note although i understand why some dealers do not include previous owners cards to not make obvious where they obtained the specimen i have to say it is a pet hate of mine when this happens. I like to have as much information as possible on the provenance of every piece and the chain of ownership as Mike says is a big part of this. Good discussion! Cheers Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Hi Gang, This is just my opinion, so others' mileage may vary. I do not include specimen cards with the pieces I sell for one primary reason, explained below. 1) I include a small identification label for each specimen that shows the name of the specimen, type, location/date of the find/fall and my URL. 2) I do not include the original specimen card (from the dealer I acquired it from) unless it is specifically requested. If the buyer requests it, I will provide a copy of the original card. Personally, I do not find specimen cards to be a convincing method of proving provenance because anyone with a printer can make a copy of any specimen card they want. With a scanner, a person could copy any specimen card in the world and insert whatever information they want using Photoshop. To me, such cards are nice to have, but they prove nothing. The same can be said for certificates of authenticity which are not worth the paper they are printed on. In my view, you either trust your dealer or you do not. A card or certificate might make one feel better about provenance, but it ultimately means or proves nothing. Having said that, I enjoy specimen cards and I collect them. I have a large box full of cards from dozens of different dealers and collections. But I do not count them as proof that a given specimen is genuine. I trust my sources for that authenticity, not the small printed cards they give me. Best regards and happy collecting! MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 3/4/11, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Rob, Make your own card that reflects the updated weight and include the original dealer/collector card that reflects the old weight. Cheers, Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lenssen Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:45 PM To: 'Rob Wesel'; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi Guy's, Thanks for the answers, but - except Stuart's - they are not answering the question how to deal with changing mass. I think everybody will agree that the original card must stay with the piece. I make my own cards only for stones I bought in Morocco and had classified myself. Best, Rob -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Rob Wesel [mailto:nakhla...@comcast.net] Verzonden: vrijdag 4 maart 2011 22:38 Aan: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mike Bandli; 'Rob Lenssen' Onderwerp: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass In response to Stuart Nininger, DuPont, LaPaz Not IMCA members but I'm glad they made those cards Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 -- From: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net; 'Rob Lenssen' rlens...@planet.nl Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass I agree. I keep all the cards you guys send me when I purchase. I have been thinking about doing my own card but it really is meaning less not being an IMCA member or the original finder. Maybe make an entry on the back of the original card as to whom you received it from and forward it when you sell it. Stuart McD __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Many of my customers want any and all cards that were Ever associated with the piece. Many museum card copies Are of a higher weight from which the piece was taken. It would seem most appropriate to include your new Card and current weight along with the old card. People will understand the slightly lower weight as The result of finishing on your part or use of a better Scale. If you advertise at the weight it is after finishing, No one will object to a higher weight on a previous card And, if you like, you can even have a place on the card For weight after polishing or the like. Michael On 3/4/11 1:11 PM, Rob Lenssen rlens...@planet.nl wrote: Hi Mike and List, Concerning Meteorite-Cards... I like to have my stone-type meteorite slices sanded at one side and polished at the other. After buying slices, they typically arrive as-cut. So I have to sand and polish them myself. As you can guess, afterwards the mass doesn¹t correspond to the mass on the cards anymore. Assume I would choose to sell a slice. Should I stripe the original mass, and put a new figure (plus my name?) on the original card (as I would choose to do), or should I make my own new card, or choose even a different option? What would be the best choice? Wonder if we could work out a preferred approach here. All the best, Rob Lenssen AsteroidChipping.com -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Namens Mike Bandli Verzonden: vrijdag 4 maart 2011 17:24 Aan: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Onderwerp: [meteorite-list] Free Meteorite Card Template In response to requests for specimen card templates, I have uploaded a template I designed for free use: http://historicmeteorites.com/HistoricMeteorites/labels.html Feel free to edit/tailor it for your personal requirements. Cheers, Mike Bandli --- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
You bring up good points. Recently I have been signing my cards, as some others did (Hupe, Haag). Very difficult to copy my signature. This may stop one from being unscrupulous. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 18:24:33 To: Mike Bandlifuzzf...@comcast.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Rob Lenssenrlens...@planet.nl Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi Gang, This is just my opinion, so others' mileage may vary. I do not include specimen cards with the pieces I sell for one primary reason, explained below. 1) I include a small identification label for each specimen that shows the name of the specimen, type, location/date of the find/fall and my URL. 2) I do not include the original specimen card (from the dealer I acquired it from) unless it is specifically requested. If the buyer requests it, I will provide a copy of the original card. Personally, I do not find specimen cards to be a convincing method of proving provenance because anyone with a printer can make a copy of any specimen card they want. With a scanner, a person could copy any specimen card in the world and insert whatever information they want using Photoshop. To me, such cards are nice to have, but they prove nothing. The same can be said for certificates of authenticity which are not worth the paper they are printed on. In my view, you either trust your dealer or you do not. A card or certificate might make one feel better about provenance, but it ultimately means or proves nothing. Having said that, I enjoy specimen cards and I collect them. I have a large box full of cards from dozens of different dealers and collections. But I do not count them as proof that a given specimen is genuine. I trust my sources for that authenticity, not the small printed cards they give me. Best regards and happy collecting! MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 3/4/11, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Rob, Make your own card that reflects the updated weight and include the original dealer/collector card that reflects the old weight. Cheers, Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lenssen Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:45 PM To: 'Rob Wesel'; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi Guy's, Thanks for the answers, but - except Stuart's - they are not answering the question how to deal with changing mass. I think everybody will agree that the original card must stay with the piece. I make my own cards only for stones I bought in Morocco and had classified myself. Best, Rob -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Rob Wesel [mailto:nakhla...@comcast.net] Verzonden: vrijdag 4 maart 2011 22:38 Aan: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mike Bandli; 'Rob Lenssen' Onderwerp: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass In response to Stuart Nininger, DuPont, LaPaz Not IMCA members but I'm glad they made those cards Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 -- From: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mike
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Hi Matt and List, Yes, that is great idea. Signing the cards introduces a great difficulty for those who seek to copy a card or produce a bogus card. As obvious as it seems, that idea never occurred to me. Now I might start issuing cards and signing them. I never issued cards previously because I viewed them the same way as COA's - easy to reproduce and not worth the paper they are printed on. But signing them makes them more meaningful. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 3/4/11, m...@mhmeteorites.com m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: You bring up good points. Recently I have been signing my cards, as some others did (Hupe, Haag). Very difficult to copy my signature. This may stop one from being unscrupulous. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 18:24:33 To: Mike Bandlifuzzf...@comcast.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Rob Lenssenrlens...@planet.nl Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi Gang, This is just my opinion, so others' mileage may vary. I do not include specimen cards with the pieces I sell for one primary reason, explained below. 1) I include a small identification label for each specimen that shows the name of the specimen, type, location/date of the find/fall and my URL. 2) I do not include the original specimen card (from the dealer I acquired it from) unless it is specifically requested. If the buyer requests it, I will provide a copy of the original card. Personally, I do not find specimen cards to be a convincing method of proving provenance because anyone with a printer can make a copy of any specimen card they want. With a scanner, a person could copy any specimen card in the world and insert whatever information they want using Photoshop. To me, such cards are nice to have, but they prove nothing. The same can be said for certificates of authenticity which are not worth the paper they are printed on. In my view, you either trust your dealer or you do not. A card or certificate might make one feel better about provenance, but it ultimately means or proves nothing. Having said that, I enjoy specimen cards and I collect them. I have a large box full of cards from dozens of different dealers and collections. But I do not count them as proof that a given specimen is genuine. I trust my sources for that authenticity, not the small printed cards they give me. Best regards and happy collecting! MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 3/4/11, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Rob, Make your own card that reflects the updated weight and include the original dealer/collector card that reflects the old weight. Cheers, Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lenssen Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:45 PM To: 'Rob Wesel'; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi Guy's, Thanks for the answers, but - except Stuart's
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
I purchased a historic specimen and the person who originally was supposed to have provided it identified the writing on the back of the specimen box as their own. This established a chain of provenance through 2 or 3 reputable dealers back to the source and then to a museum. But it was the source identifying the handwriting on the back that made the sale and established a nice chain of custody in my opinion. Mark Mark Grossman Briarcliff Manor, NY - Original Message - From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: m...@mhmeteorites.com Cc: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com; Rob Lenssen rlens...@planet.nl; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi Matt and List, Yes, that is great idea. Signing the cards introduces a great difficulty for those who seek to copy a card or produce a bogus card. As obvious as it seems, that idea never occurred to me. Now I might start issuing cards and signing them. I never issued cards previously because I viewed them the same way as COA's - easy to reproduce and not worth the paper they are printed on. But signing them makes them more meaningful. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 3/4/11, m...@mhmeteorites.com m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: You bring up good points. Recently I have been signing my cards, as some others did (Hupe, Haag). Very difficult to copy my signature. This may stop one from being unscrupulous. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 18:24:33 To: Mike Bandlifuzzf...@comcast.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Rob Lenssenrlens...@planet.nl Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi Gang, This is just my opinion, so others' mileage may vary. I do not include specimen cards with the pieces I sell for one primary reason, explained below. 1) I include a small identification label for each specimen that shows the name of the specimen, type, location/date of the find/fall and my URL. 2) I do not include the original specimen card (from the dealer I acquired it from) unless it is specifically requested. If the buyer requests it, I will provide a copy of the original card. Personally, I do not find specimen cards to be a convincing method of proving provenance because anyone with a printer can make a copy of any specimen card they want. With a scanner, a person could copy any specimen card in the world and insert whatever information they want using Photoshop. To me, such cards are nice to have, but they prove nothing. The same can be said for certificates of authenticity which are not worth the paper they are printed on. In my view, you either trust your dealer or you do not. A card or certificate might make one feel better about provenance, but it ultimately means or proves nothing. Having said that, I enjoy specimen cards and I collect them. I have a large box full of cards from dozens of different dealers and collections. But I do not count them as proof that a given specimen is genuine. I trust my sources for that authenticity, not the small printed cards they give me. Best regards and happy collecting! MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 3/4/11, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Rob, Make your own card that reflects the updated weight and include the original dealer/collector card that reflects the old weight. Cheers, Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
So if you don't forward the original how do you state the chain of custody? Also, when you purchase a stone do you automatically become part of the provenance?? I know that sounds like an elemental question but I am still learning here. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society -Original Message- From: martin goff Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 5:31 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi all, I always include my own specimen card with any specimen that i sell on and have done since i started collecting. This is not because i place any importance on myself or the 'added value' that this might place on a specimen but because i do feel it is important to show the chain of custody of each and every specimen, whether a small micromount or a museum piece. To me this chain of ownership is important whether you are a dealer, a big name famous historic collector or a brand new collector, it makes no difference but just adds to the story of each specimen. If i have refinished a specimen and lost some weight in the process i write the new weight on my card and in the comments section at the bottom i add that due to refinishing the weight has changed whilst in my temporary custody. I have numerous specimens where the chain of ownership is shown by 6 or more specimen cards of various dealers or collectors. In some of these there have been numerous weight changes down the line yet from the cards i can see who did what and when, this is important info and needs to be recorded. On this note although i understand why some dealers do not include previous owners cards to not make obvious where they obtained the specimen i have to say it is a pet hate of mine when this happens. I like to have as much information as possible on the provenance of every piece and the chain of ownership as Mike says is a big part of this. Good discussion! Cheers Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
Stuart wrote: So if you don't forward the original how do you state the chain of custody? You can note the chain of custody (if you know it) on the back of your specimen card. Stuart wrote: Also, when you purchase a stone do you automatically become part of the provenance?? Yes. Provenance, by its very definition, is not only the *source/origin*, but also the *chain of custody* or *history of ownership*. When you buy a stone, you become a part of the provenance. Cheers, Mike Bandli --- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McDaniel Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 4:28 PM To: martin goff; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass So if you don't forward the original how do you state the chain of custody? Also, when you purchase a stone do you automatically become part of the provenance?? I know that sounds like an elemental question but I am still learning here. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society -Original Message- From: martin goff Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 5:31 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi all, I always include my own specimen card with any specimen that i sell on and have done since i started collecting. This is not because i place any importance on myself or the 'added value' that this might place on a specimen but because i do feel it is important to show the chain of custody of each and every specimen, whether a small micromount or a museum piece. To me this chain of ownership is important whether you are a dealer, a big name famous historic collector or a brand new collector, it makes no difference but just adds to the story of each specimen. If i have refinished a specimen and lost some weight in the process i write the new weight on my card and in the comments section at the bottom i add that due to refinishing the weight has changed whilst in my temporary custody. I have numerous specimens where the chain of ownership is shown by 6 or more specimen cards of various dealers or collectors. In some of these there have been numerous weight changes down the line yet from the cards i can see who did what and when, this is important info and needs to be recorded. On this note although i understand why some dealers do not include previous owners cards to not make obvious where they obtained the specimen i have to say it is a pet hate of mine when this happens. I like to have as much information as possible on the provenance of every piece and the chain of ownership as Mike says is a big part of this. Good discussion! Cheers Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
OK, that was what I was thinking, thanks!! Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society -Original Message- From: Mike Bandli Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 7:55 PM To: 'Stuart McDaniel' ; 'martin goff' ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Stuart wrote: So if you don't forward the original how do you state the chain of custody? You can note the chain of custody (if you know it) on the back of your specimen card. Stuart wrote: Also, when you purchase a stone do you automatically become part of the provenance?? Yes. Provenance, by its very definition, is not only the *source/origin*, but also the *chain of custody* or *history of ownership*. When you buy a stone, you become a part of the provenance. Cheers, Mike Bandli --- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McDaniel Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 4:28 PM To: martin goff; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass So if you don't forward the original how do you state the chain of custody? Also, when you purchase a stone do you automatically become part of the provenance?? I know that sounds like an elemental question but I am still learning here. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society -Original Message- From: martin goff Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 5:31 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi all, I always include my own specimen card with any specimen that i sell on and have done since i started collecting. This is not because i place any importance on myself or the 'added value' that this might place on a specimen but because i do feel it is important to show the chain of custody of each and every specimen, whether a small micromount or a museum piece. To me this chain of ownership is important whether you are a dealer, a big name famous historic collector or a brand new collector, it makes no difference but just adds to the story of each specimen. If i have refinished a specimen and lost some weight in the process i write the new weight on my card and in the comments section at the bottom i add that due to refinishing the weight has changed whilst in my temporary custody. I have numerous specimens where the chain of ownership is shown by 6 or more specimen cards of various dealers or collectors. In some of these there have been numerous weight changes down the line yet from the cards i can see who did what and when, this is important info and needs to be recorded. On this note although i understand why some dealers do not include previous owners cards to not make obvious where they obtained the specimen i have to say it is a pet hate of mine when this happens. I like to have as much information as possible on the provenance of every piece and the chain of ownership as Mike says is a big part of this. Good discussion! Cheers Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
I like that idea if there is some where to verify the signature. But in today's electronic world, verification is only an email away! Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society -Original Message- From: m...@mhmeteorites.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 6:34 PM To: Michael Gilmer ; meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com ; Mike Bandli Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com ; Rob Lenssen Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass You bring up good points. Recently I have been signing my cards, as some others did (Hupe, Haag). Very difficult to copy my signature. This may stop one from being unscrupulous. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 18:24:33 To: Mike Bandlifuzzf...@comcast.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Rob Lenssenrlens...@planet.nl Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi Gang, This is just my opinion, so others' mileage may vary. I do not include specimen cards with the pieces I sell for one primary reason, explained below. 1) I include a small identification label for each specimen that shows the name of the specimen, type, location/date of the find/fall and my URL. 2) I do not include the original specimen card (from the dealer I acquired it from) unless it is specifically requested. If the buyer requests it, I will provide a copy of the original card. Personally, I do not find specimen cards to be a convincing method of proving provenance because anyone with a printer can make a copy of any specimen card they want. With a scanner, a person could copy any specimen card in the world and insert whatever information they want using Photoshop. To me, such cards are nice to have, but they prove nothing. The same can be said for certificates of authenticity which are not worth the paper they are printed on. In my view, you either trust your dealer or you do not. A card or certificate might make one feel better about provenance, but it ultimately means or proves nothing. Having said that, I enjoy specimen cards and I collect them. I have a large box full of cards from dozens of different dealers and collections. But I do not count them as proof that a given specimen is genuine. I trust my sources for that authenticity, not the small printed cards they give me. Best regards and happy collecting! MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 3/4/11, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Rob, Make your own card that reflects the updated weight and include the original dealer/collector card that reflects the old weight. Cheers, Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lenssen Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:45 PM To: 'Rob Wesel'; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass Hi Guy's, Thanks for the answers, but - except Stuart's - they are not answering the question how to deal with changing mass. I think everybody will agree that the original card must stay with the piece. I make my own cards only for stones I bought in Morocco and had classified myself. Best, Rob -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Rob Wesel [mailto:nakhla...@comcast.net] Verzonden: vrijdag 4 maart 2011 22:38 Aan: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mike Bandli; 'Rob Lenssen' Onderwerp: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass In response to Stuart Nininger
