Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
So Adam, You've been on this down rap for years now. I don't understand why you mention native american artifact busts in the same context as meteorites. That don't help none. I think I understand that you fear the two might be intentionally confused but I've been told so often that I don't think so well that I'm not sure. Perhaps a bead or an ornament fashioned from a meteorite, plundered and lost by an incompetent archaeologist of bygone days, taken from an native american burial might cause confusion. Did that happen? Should the Smith make amends? Have they ever made full amends for anything they have done? Will they continue their Victorian policy? Is there a Hell? Will it freeze over... Will that confusion persist? Will endless sites get bulldozed because amateurs will never get sanctioned? Curator to Bonan the novice employee, What is best Bonehead? Bone says: To see the non-tourists driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the collectors! Yeah, the bureaucrats run wild, especially when the red money flag is waved by the media stars. Wild as slugs in the garden. I hear a lot about the black market and it's always directed towards the collector. How many BLM employees are tracking hunters and cashing in? How many collectors are cooperating? When will we all get paid for saying nothing so often? --- Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 09:08:23 -0700 From: raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: meteoritem...@gmail.com CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Florida Artifact Bust: http://ens-newswire.com/2013/02/28/florida-busts-artifact-thieves-who-damaged-lands-waters/ http://www.gainesville.com/article/20130227/wire/130229559 Utah Artifact Busts: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148sid=6771105 Unless you want a 10-year jail sentence here in the U.S., I would avoid picking up anything found on public land. Meteorites and cultural property (used to mean artifacts, antiquities or relics) are now interchangeable terms thanks to Douglass Schmidt and recent media! Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
It is simple. Laws used to to protect artifacts have been twisted to include meteorites. Adam - Original Message - From: bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 11:46 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! So Adam, You've been on this down rap for years now. I don't understand why you mention native american artifact busts in the same context as meteorites. That don't help none. I think I understand that you fear the two might be intentionally confused but I've been told so often that I don't think so well that I'm not sure. Perhaps a bead or an ornament fashioned from a meteorite, plundered and lost by an incompetent archaeologist of bygone days, taken from an native american burial might cause confusion. Did that happen? Should the Smith make amends? Have they ever made full amends for anything they have done? Will they continue their Victorian policy? Is there a Hell? Will it freeze over... Will that confusion persist? Will endless sites get bulldozed because amateurs will never get sanctioned? Curator to Bonan the novice employee, What is best Bonehead? Bone says: To see the non-tourists driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the collectors! Yeah, the bureaucrats run wild, especially when the red money flag is waved by the media stars. Wild as slugs in the garden. I hear a lot about the black market and it's always directed towards the collector. How many BLM employees are tracking hunters and cashing in? How many collectors are cooperating? When will we all get paid for saying nothing so often? --- Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 09:08:23 -0700 From: raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: meteoritem...@gmail.com CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Florida Artifact Bust: http://ens-newswire.com/2013/02/28/florida-busts-artifact-thieves-who-damaged-lands-waters/ http://www.gainesville.com/article/20130227/wire/130229559 Utah Artifact Busts: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148sid=6771105 Unless you want a 10-year jail sentence here in the U.S., I would avoid picking up anything found on public land. Meteorites and cultural property (used to mean artifacts, antiquities or relics) are now interchangeable terms thanks to Douglass Schmidt and recent media! Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
Hi Count, yep you're right, I'm no diplomat. (And - viziers and consuls - here in Germany with its baleful history, we have a different paradigm about states servants than in the hegemonic proud Ex-Ottoman Empire, German consuls aren't only servants of the state, but also servants of the people). Anyway, the arrests of tourists having picked up a stone from the beach are always also a part of a political game. Partially because of the permanent refusal of the EU to start negotiations with Turkey for its admittance to the EU, and partially because of Turkey's aggressive policy to claim back antiquities and cultural heritage from other governments. From the Rep. of Germany for instance, they want to have back that stuff: http://www.geo.de/reisen/community/bild/regular/220723/Pergamon-Altar.jpg (Btw. one important reason for not declaring meteorites to be cultural heritage. That would bring the big historic institutional collections in hard troubles). Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Count Deiro [mailto:countde...@earthlink.net] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. April 2013 04:55 An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hallo Martin, I said meteorite to him and the answer was no. I don't want to call attention to myself by asking for a further clarification. My feeling is that he would take offense at my having the impudence (Frechheit) to quote his own laws to him. Alles bestes Guido -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Apr 18, 2013 12:14 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hi Count, maybe you could ask the consul again, to give you the respective law? Decisive is the Law No. 2863 of July 21, 1983 on Conservation of Cultural and Natural Property (as last amended by Law No. 5835 of February 4, 2009 and Law No. 5917 of June 25, 2009) Here it is in English version: http://www.wipo.int/wipolex/en/text.jsp?file_id=249359 It definitely has no meteorites in the catalogue-articles, where all kind of object-categories are explicitly named. Neither cover the definitions of cultural property nor natural property, given in Chapter 1, Art. 3a) 1)2) Meteorites in general, but would need an interpretation by a court. E.g. a find of H5 could perhaps not be regarded unique (nor being of beauty, if it's W3, hehe). And even if covered, if purchased from a dealer with the right license, they could be exported like antiquities in such cases too. On the other side, rocks are per se not o.k. see the definition of natural property. Best, Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Count Deiro Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 20:31 An: Anne Black; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Dear Anne, In reading the story, the two suspected artifacts are described in the body of the article. I have contacted the Turkish Cultural and Economic Affairs office in Los Angeles, California and His Excellency, Aydın Topcu, Consul General for Turkey, informs me that the collection of meteorites for removal from Turkey is forbidden under law and that there is no permit process. So rocks ok...other things not. Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Anne Black impact...@aol.com Sent: Apr 18, 2013 11:09 AM To: countde...@earthlink.net, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Sorry, but this does not add up. I have been to Turkey twice, beautiful country, very friendly people. I have bought minerals, some multi-colored marbles, picked up some blue serpentine on the side of the road, and had no problem at all bringing them back. I also visited many archaeological sites, but I certainly would never pick up anything there. I wonder what his stones look like! Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 10:48 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hello Listees, Take a look at how Turkey is handling rock collectors. And this one a tourist! http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/22013551/us-tourist-faces-jail-in-turkey- f or-collecting-beach-stones#axzz2QpOTN1Sq It will never be he same. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
Hi folks, Just my input about stones from Turkey. Recently the highest police officer from the canton of Valais in Switzerland was arrested in Turkey (carrying a stone most probably a piece of an ancient temple) when return from family holidays. I would not try to carry anything out of Turkeylooking like ancient not even a stone found on a beach somewhere. I'm glad that I'm not working for our Consulate in Turkey otherwise cases like this one means a lot of overtime work and maybe prison visits included. So I prefer to be here in the wild east balcan country of Kosovo where to carry tons of minerals out the country is not a problem at all (at least until now) :-) Here a link (sorry only in German). http://www.blick.ch/news/ausland/verliert-varone-jetzt-seinen-job-id2242898.html Cheers Tom From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hi Count, yep you're right, I'm no diplomat. (And - viziers and consuls - here in Germany with its baleful history, we have a different paradigm about states servants than in the hegemonic proud Ex-Ottoman Empire, German consuls aren't only servants of the state, but also servants of the people). Anyway, the arrests of tourists having picked up a stone from the beach are always also a part of a political game. Partially because of the permanent refusal of the EU to start negotiations with Turkey for its admittance to the EU, and partially because of Turkey's aggressive policy to claim back antiquities and cultural heritage from other governments. From the Rep. of Germany for instance, they want to have back that stuff: http://www.geo.de/reisen/community/bild/regular/220723/Pergamon-Altar.jpg (Btw. one important reason for not declaring meteorites to be cultural heritage. That would bring the big historic institutional collections in hard troubles). Best! Martin -UrsprünglicheNachricht- Von: Count Deiro [mailto:countde...@earthlink.net] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. April 2013 04:55 An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hallo Martin, I said meteorite to him and the answer was no. I don't want to call attention to myself by asking for a further clarification. My feeling is that he would take offense at my having the impudence (Frechheit) to quote his own laws to him. Allesbestes Guido -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Apr 18, 2013 12:14 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hi Count, maybe you could ask the consul again, to give you the respective law? Decisive is the Law No. 2863 of July 21, 1983 on Conservation of Cultural and Natural Property (as last amended by Law No. 5835 of February 4, 2009 and Law No. 5917 of June 25, 2009) Here it is in English version: http://www.wipo.int/wipolex/en/text.jsp?file_id=249359 It definitely has no meteorites in the catalogue-articles, where all kind of object-categories are explicitly named. Neither cover the definitions of cultural property nor natural property, given in Chapter 1, Art. 3a) 1)2) Meteorites in general, but would need an interpretation by a court. E.g. a find of H5 could perhaps not be regarded unique (nor being of beauty, if it's W3, hehe). And even if covered, if purchased from a dealer with the right license, they could be exported like antiquities in such cases too. On the other side, rocks are per se not o.k. see the definition of natural property. Best, Martin -UrsprünglicheNachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] ImAuftragvon Count Deiro Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 20:31 An: Anne Black; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Dear Anne, In reading the story, the two suspected artifacts are described in the body of the article. I have contacted the Turkish Cultural and Economic Affairs office in LosAngeles, California and His Excellency, Aydın Topcu, Consul General for Turkey, informs me that the collection of meteorites for removal from Turkey is forbidden under law and that there is no permit process. So rocks ok...other things not. Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Anne Black impact...@aol.com Sent: Apr 18, 2013 11:09 AM To: countde...@earthlink.net, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Sorry, but this does not add up. I have been to Turkey twice, beautiful country, very friendly people. I have bought minerals, some multi-colored marbles, picked up some blue serpentine on the side of the road, and had no problem at all bringing them back. I also visited many archaeological sites, but I certainly would never pick up anything there. I wonder
Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
I would'nt even visit a country, where harmless things, like collecting stuff from the ground, can lead to long term jail. If someone likes the visitation of someone else, he NEVER even thinks about such drastical kinds of threatment. So i conclude, tourists are not welcome in such countrys. Only their money is welcome (at least in the eyes of the government of these countrys). I would choose another country to travel. There are plenty of locations in the world, where IAM welcome and not (only) my money. - Original Nachricht Von: Stalder Thomas saharag...@yahoo.com An: meteoritlist Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Datum: 19.04.2013 15:41 Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hi folks, Just my input about stones from Turkey. Recently the highest police officer from the canton of Valais in Switzerland was arrested in Turkey (carrying a stone most probably a piece of an ancient temple) when return from family holidays. I would not try to carry anything out of Turkeylooking like ancient not even a stone found on a beach somewhere. I'm glad that I'm not working for our Consulate in Turkey otherwise cases like this one means a lot of overtime work and maybe prison visits included. So I prefer to be here in the wild east balcan country of Kosovo where to carry tons of minerals out the country is not a problem at all (at least until now) :-) Here a link (sorry only in German). http://www.blick.ch/news/ausland/verliert-varone-jetzt-seinen-job-id2242898. html Cheers Tom From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hi Count, yep you're right, I'm no diplomat. (And - viziers and consuls - here in Germany with its baleful history, we have a different paradigm about states servants than in the hegemonic proud Ex-Ottoman Empire, German consuls aren't only servants of the state, but also servants of the people). Anyway, the arrests of tourists having picked up a stone from the beach are always also a part of a political game. Partially because of the permanent refusal of the EU to start negotiations with Turkey for its admittance to the EU, and partially because of Turkey's aggressive policy to claim back antiquities and cultural heritage from other governments. From the Rep. of Germany for instance, they want to have back that stuff: http://www.geo.de/reisen/community/bild/regular/220723/Pergamon-Altar.jpg (Btw. one important reason for not declaring meteorites to be cultural heritage. That would bring the big historic institutional collections in hard troubles). Best! Martin -UrsprünglicheNachricht- Von: Count Deiro [mailto:countde...@earthlink.net] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. April 2013 04:55 An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hallo Martin, I said meteorite to him and the answer was no. I don't want to call attention to myself by asking for a further clarification. My feeling is that he would take offense at my having the impudence (Frechheit) to quote his own laws to him. Allesbestes Guido -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Apr 18, 2013 12:14 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hi Count, maybe you could ask the consul again, to give you the respective law? Decisive is the Law No. 2863 of July 21, 1983 on Conservation of Cultural and Natural Property (as last amended by Law No. 5835 of February 4, 2009 and Law No. 5917 of June 25, 2009) Here it is in English version: http://www.wipo.int/wipolex/en/text.jsp?file_id=249359 It definitely has no meteorites in the catalogue-articles, where all kind of object-categories are explicitly named. Neither cover the definitions of cultural property nor natural property, given in Chapter 1, Art. 3a) 1)2) Meteorites in general, but would need an interpretation by a court. E.g. a find of H5 could perhaps not be regarded unique (nor being of beauty, if it's W3, hehe). And even if covered, if purchased from a dealer with the right license, they could be exported like antiquities in such cases too. On the other side, rocks are per se not o.k. see the definition of natural property. Best, Martin -UrsprünglicheNachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] ImAuftragvon Count Deiro Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 20:31 An: Anne Black; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Dear Anne, In reading the story, the two suspected artifacts are described in the body of the article. I have contacted the Turkish Cultural and Economic Affairs office in LosAngeles, California and His Excellency, Ayd?n Topcu
Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
The poorly interpreted and recently twisted U.S. laws are nearly as strict. Give it a few more years. Now that meteorites are considered cultural property, we will be hearing a lot more about this subject. When artifacts and rocks (meteorites) are treated the same, so will the jail terms. The recent Florida show artifact busts demonstrates that public servants are not messing around. Several people are facing dozens of felony charges each including a well-known meteorite collector and over a dozen previously respected artifact dealers. Although well-intended, Egyptian laws have pushed the dealing of artifacts underground and have raised their value considerably making them more desirable than ever to some. Personally, I would not touch any item from Turkey or Egypt without proper paperwork which is unobtainable. Just like commercial meteorite collecting permits will be here in the U.S. Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
Florida Artifact Bust: http://ens-newswire.com/2013/02/28/florida-busts-artifact-thieves-who-damaged-lands-waters/ http://www.gainesville.com/article/20130227/wire/130229559 Utah Artifact Busts: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148sid=6771105 Unless you want a 10-year jail sentence here in the U.S., I would avoid picking up anything found on public land. Meteorites and cultural property (used to mean artifacts, antiquities or relics) are now interchangeable terms thanks to Douglass Schmidt and recent media! Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
Adam, I agree with the authorities in this case. They were right to make arrests. What bothers me is your statement that meteorites are now Cultural property because of coarse they are NOT! Question; Are meteorites really considered to be cultural property? Because if they are unless they are found on private land based on this story, We hunters risk arrest see link to story here; http://myfwc.com/news/news-releases/2013/february/27/artifacts-arrests/ This is rather scary when you consider the fact that meteorites are really just rocks until an expert declares them to be authentic and even them mistakes are made. What has happened to America? Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: The poorly interpreted and recently twisted U.S. laws are nearly as strict. Give it a few more years. Now that meteorites are considered cultural property, we will be hearing a lot more about this subject. When artifacts and rocks (meteorites) are treated the same, so will the jail terms. The recent Florida show artifact busts demonstrates that public servants are not messing around. Several people are facing dozens of felony charges each including a well-known meteorite collector and over a dozen previously respected artifact dealers. Although well-intended, Egyptian laws have pushed the dealing of artifacts underground and have raised their value considerably making them more desirable than ever to some. Personally, I would not touch any item from Turkey or Egypt without proper paperwork which is unobtainable. Just like commercial meteorite collecting permits will be here in the U.S. Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
Hello Listees, Take a look at how Turkey is handling rock collectors. And this one a tourist! http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/22013551/us-tourist-faces-jail-in-turkey-for-collecting-beach-stones#axzz2QpOTN1Sq It will never be he same. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
Sorry, but this does not add up. I have been to Turkey twice, beautiful country, very friendly people. I have bought minerals, some multi-colored marbles, picked up some blue serpentine on the side of the road, and had no problem at all bringing them back. I also visited many archaeological sites, but I certainly would never pick up anything there. I wonder what his stones look like! Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 10:48 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hello Listees, Take a look at how Turkey is handling rock collectors. And this one a tourist! http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/22013551/us-tourist-faces-jail-in-turkey-for-collecting-beach-stones#axzz2QpOTN1Sq It will never be he same. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
Dear Anne, In reading the story, the two suspected artifacts are described in the body of the article. I have contacted the Turkish Cultural and Economic Affairs office in Los Angeles, California and His Excellency, Aydın Topcu, Consul General for Turkey, informs me that the collection of meteorites for removal from Turkey is forbidden under law and that there is no permit process. So rocks ok...other things not. Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Anne Black impact...@aol.com Sent: Apr 18, 2013 11:09 AM To: countde...@earthlink.net, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Sorry, but this does not add up. I have been to Turkey twice, beautiful country, very friendly people. I have bought minerals, some multi-colored marbles, picked up some blue serpentine on the side of the road, and had no problem at all bringing them back. I also visited many archaeological sites, but I certainly would never pick up anything there. I wonder what his stones look like! Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 10:48 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hello Listees, Take a look at how Turkey is handling rock collectors. And this one a tourist! http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/22013551/us-tourist-faces-jail-in-turkey-for-collecting-beach-stones#axzz2QpOTN1Sq It will never be he same. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
Sorry, (apart from this adding up at least as much as the meteorite laws Anne defends), please don't do it like Anne did. Turkey is known for more than ten years to have made series of arrests for the same reasons. Turkey is very popular in Europe for beach holidays and family vacations (cause cheaper and better service than e.g. Greece). Never pick up stones from the beach as souvenirs! The most uproar here in Germany was, when a father was arrested for his 9-years-old sun having picked up an amorphous stone of marble at the beach. (Where later an expert commission decided (I doubt, they could have proved it), that it could stem from a base of an antique statue). Such cases happen a dozen times per year, usually they are solved for foreign tourists with an imprisonment on remand of up to half a year in a Turkish jail and a fine of ca. 10,000$. (Same applies to accidentally picked up fossils). Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Anne Black Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 20:09 An: countde...@earthlink.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Sorry, but this does not add up. I have been to Turkey twice, beautiful country, very friendly people. I have bought minerals, some multi-colored marbles, picked up some blue serpentine on the side of the road, and had no problem at all bringing them back. I also visited many archaeological sites, but I certainly would never pick up anything there. I wonder what his stones look like! Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 10:48 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hello Listees, Take a look at how Turkey is handling rock collectors. And this one a tourist! http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/22013551/us-tourist-faces-jail-in-turkey-for-co llecting-beach-stones#axzz2QpOTN1Sq It will never be he same. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
Hi Count, maybe you could ask the consul again, to give you the respective law? Decisive is the Law No. 2863 of July 21, 1983 on Conservation of Cultural and Natural Property (as last amended by Law No. 5835 of February 4, 2009 and Law No. 5917 of June 25, 2009) Here it is in English version: http://www.wipo.int/wipolex/en/text.jsp?file_id=249359 It definitely has no meteorites in the catalogue-articles, where all kind of object-categories are explicitly named. Neither cover the definitions of cultural property nor natural property, given in Chapter 1, Art. 3a) 1)2) Meteorites in general, but would need an interpretation by a court. E.g. a find of H5 could perhaps not be regarded unique (nor being of beauty, if it's W3, hehe). And even if covered, if purchased from a dealer with the right license, they could be exported like antiquities in such cases too. On the other side, rocks are per se not o.k. see the definition of natural property. Best, Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Count Deiro Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 20:31 An: Anne Black; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Dear Anne, In reading the story, the two suspected artifacts are described in the body of the article. I have contacted the Turkish Cultural and Economic Affairs office in Los Angeles, California and His Excellency, Aydın Topcu, Consul General for Turkey, informs me that the collection of meteorites for removal from Turkey is forbidden under law and that there is no permit process. So rocks ok...other things not. Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Anne Black impact...@aol.com Sent: Apr 18, 2013 11:09 AM To: countde...@earthlink.net, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Sorry, but this does not add up. I have been to Turkey twice, beautiful country, very friendly people. I have bought minerals, some multi-colored marbles, picked up some blue serpentine on the side of the road, and had no problem at all bringing them back. I also visited many archaeological sites, but I certainly would never pick up anything there. I wonder what his stones look like! Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 10:48 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hello Listees, Take a look at how Turkey is handling rock collectors. And this one a tourist! http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/22013551/us-tourist-faces-jail-in-turkey-f or-collecting-beach-stones#axzz2QpOTN1Sq It will never be he same. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
Hallo Martin, I said meteorite to him and the answer was no. I don't want to call attention to myself by asking for a further clarification. My feeling is that he would take offense at my having the impudence (Frechheit) to quote his own laws to him. Alles bestes Guido -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Apr 18, 2013 12:14 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hi Count, maybe you could ask the consul again, to give you the respective law? Decisive is the Law No. 2863 of July 21, 1983 on Conservation of Cultural and Natural Property (as last amended by Law No. 5835 of February 4, 2009 and Law No. 5917 of June 25, 2009) Here it is in English version: http://www.wipo.int/wipolex/en/text.jsp?file_id=249359 It definitely has no meteorites in the catalogue-articles, where all kind of object-categories are explicitly named. Neither cover the definitions of cultural property nor natural property, given in Chapter 1, Art. 3a) 1)2) Meteorites in general, but would need an interpretation by a court. E.g. a find of H5 could perhaps not be regarded unique (nor being of beauty, if it's W3, hehe). And even if covered, if purchased from a dealer with the right license, they could be exported like antiquities in such cases too. On the other side, rocks are per se not o.k. see the definition of natural property. Best, Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Count Deiro Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 20:31 An: Anne Black; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Dear Anne, In reading the story, the two suspected artifacts are described in the body of the article. I have contacted the Turkish Cultural and Economic Affairs office in Los Angeles, California and His Excellency, Aydın Topcu, Consul General for Turkey, informs me that the collection of meteorites for removal from Turkey is forbidden under law and that there is no permit process. So rocks ok...other things not. Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Anne Black impact...@aol.com Sent: Apr 18, 2013 11:09 AM To: countde...@earthlink.net, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Sorry, but this does not add up. I have been to Turkey twice, beautiful country, very friendly people. I have bought minerals, some multi-colored marbles, picked up some blue serpentine on the side of the road, and had no problem at all bringing them back. I also visited many archaeological sites, but I certainly would never pick up anything there. I wonder what his stones look like! Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 10:48 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh! Hello Listees, Take a look at how Turkey is handling rock collectors. And this one a tourist! http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/22013551/us-tourist-faces-jail-in-turkey-f or-collecting-beach-stones#axzz2QpOTN1Sq It will never be he same. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
