Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

> > A lot of the power of MF reminds me of Smart Tags in Office XP, > maybe we could look to the way that was marketed and some of the UI > stuff it did was really good. I haven't seen the Smart Tags stuff (where do I find it?)... could it be somehow adapted for use with microformats? ... or

Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

For me, the question is what does the non-developer end-user perceive when they see the "SmartData" icon? How does that relate to their world? It isn't about the formatting or the HTML tags... Those are things that end-users don't really care about or even conceptuallize. In case anyone

Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

Paul Wilkins wrote: From: "Tara Hunt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It should look like magic. What's that Arthur C. Clarke quote about technology and magic? it's not rocket science that we're doing here, it's tougher - usability for the masses. The Clark quote is "any sufficiently advanced technolog

Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

On 6/27/07, Tara Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Although I heart the idea of language for non-experts, I'm wondering how public facing Microformats, as a general term, is. [snip] It should look like magic. What's that Arthur C. Clarke quote about technology and magic? T I agree. I'm not s

Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

From: "Tara Hunt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Personally, I'd love it all to be invisible and have more tools for non-expert content producers to input plain text into stuff that spits out properly marked up pages and other tools (like browsers and plug ins and sites) that consume these well-marked up pa

Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

Oh and non-experts/non-developers don't talk about data (or content, really), they talk about: addresses photos blog posts (now) videos events reviews resumes etc. SmartData is nice for us, but all of you are still thinking like developers ('cause, duh, you ARE developers!). T On 6/27/07, Tara

Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

Although I heart the idea of language for non-experts, I'm wondering how public facing Microformats, as a general term, is. I've thought about this before...I can see the specific microformats, like hCard and hCal and hReview being public facing...and, in reality, these are pretty descriptive. Ma

RE: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

Alex Faaborg wrote[edited for chronology]: > On Jun 27, 2007, at 4:52 PM, Thom Shannon wrote: > > Yeah, exactly that kind of thing. > > > > A lot of the power of MF reminds me of Smart Tags in Office XP, > > maybe we could look to the way that was marketed and some > of the UI > > stuff it did w

Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

From: "Alex Faaborg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm a little wary of associating microformats too closely with Smart Tags or IntelliSense given the massive public outcry Microsoft received when they considered including the feature in IE6. There are obviously some very important distinctions betwe

Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

I'm a little wary of associating microformats too closely with Smart Tags or IntelliSense given the massive public outcry Microsoft received when they considered including the feature in IE6. There are obviously some very important distinctions between the two systems, (microformats are op

Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

From: "Alex Faaborg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I definitely agree that the microformats community should consider a user facing name. Similar to how RSS is exposed in Firefox to the user as "Web Feeds" and microsummaries are exposed to the user as "Live Bookmarks," microformat detection in Firefo

Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

Yeah, exactly that kind of thing. A lot of the power of MF reminds me of Smart Tags in Office XP, maybe we could look to the way that was marketed and some of the UI stuff it did was really good. IntelliTags Infolets Infobits Open Smart Tags? ;-) Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: Hello Thom,

Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

I definitely agree that the microformats community should consider a user facing name. Similar to how RSS is exposed in Firefox to the user as "Web Feeds" and microsummaries are exposed to the user as "Live Bookmarks," microformat detection in Firefox 3 is going to need a name. What does

Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

Hello Thom, On 6/27/07, Thom Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] Just an idea, but maybe we could have a secondary name, and an end user facing site showing what you can do with these things. We could call it: "Intelligent Web Pages" or "Smart Web Pages" Web pages that are "intelligent

Re: [uf-discuss] hRelease

If we they choose not to follow the microformat process, what about suggesting them to call their specification a hFormat instead of a microformat? Guillaume ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microforma

[uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum

I know this topic comes up a lot and we'd all like to see Microformats change the lives of millions of ordinary internet users, that's why we're all here! My friend just asked me an interesting question, is Microformats the right name for it? And I said yeah, that's what they are, small format

Re: [uf-discuss] Date of Death in hCard

>I'm kind of late commenting, but perhaps, because of its similarity to >the existing "bday" we should use "dday"? I discovered that that was ruled out, in earlier discussion, not least because of: -- Andy Mabbett Understood. The potential for conf

Re: [uf-discuss] hRelease

On Jun 27, 2007, at 2:14 PM, David Janes wrote: I've actually communicated with these guys and they're fairly reasonable, but their intention is to do their own thing and call it a microformat. It looks like they may need to make that a little more clear to their own community to prevent c

Re: [uf-discuss] hRelease

On Jun 27, 2007, at 2:14 PM, David Janes wrote: I've actually communicated with these guys and they're fairly reasonable, but their intention is to do their own thing and call it a microformat. It looks like they may need to make that a little more clear to their own community to prevent con

[uf-discuss] Microformats outside of Microformats.org

Constructively speaking, we're going to see the hRelease [1] a lot more in the future, especially given some sort of native microformat support in Firefox (and others?). So what to do when other groups attempt to appropriate the microformat name? My suggestion: (1) Realize it's probably not beca

Re: [uf-discuss] Date of Death in hCard

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andrew Jaswa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes I think my only objection would be that the hCard is a 1:1 representation of the properties and values of the vCard [1]. Since vCards don't have a death date I would object. The proposal is to change that, so that hCard

Re: [uf-discuss] hRelease

On 6/27/07, Angus McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wed, June 27, 2007 3:43 pm, David Janes wrote: > On 6/27/07, John Beales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > FYI: >> > >> > -- >> > Andy Mabbett >> >> Why are they set up on their own, did we poo

Re: [uf-discuss] Date of Death in hCard

Hi, I think my only objection would be that the hCard is a 1:1 representation of the properties and values of the vCard [1]. Since vCards don't have a death date I would object. Are there programs out there that can handle death dates in their vCard implementations? I would think that the notes

Re: [uf-discuss] Date of Death in hCard

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John Beales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >I'm kind of late commenting, but perhaps, because of its similarity to >the existing "bday" we should use "dday"? I discovered that that was ruled out, in earlier discussion, not least because of:

Re: [uf-discuss] hRelease

On Wed, June 27, 2007 3:43 pm, David Janes wrote: > On 6/27/07, John Beales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > FYI: >> > >> > -- >> > Andy Mabbett >> >> Why are they set up on their own, did we poo-poo the concept at >> microformats.org or something? >

Re: [uf-discuss] hRelease

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Brian Suda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes On 6/27/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: FYI: thanks for the link, it has been on and off the radar for a good 6 months now: The thread started back in septembe

Re: [uf-discuss] Date of Death in hCard

Hi, I'm kind of late commenting, but perhaps, because of its similarity to the existing "bday" we should use "dday"? Although, "died" is easier to understand at first glance it could be construed as "died" = "at the hands of another" or something. Just my 2-bits, either way it'll be handy as I

Re: [uf-discuss] hRelease

On 6/27/07, John Beales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > FYI: > > -- > Andy Mabbett Why are they set up on their own, did we poo-poo the concept at microformats.org or something? No, they just decided to do their own thing and use the microformats n

Re: [uf-discuss] hRelease

On 6/27/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: FYI: thanks for the link, it has been on and off the radar for a good 6 months now: The thread started back in september 2006

Re: [uf-discuss] Date of Death in hCard

There having been no comments, much less objections, I intend to proceed with this, using "died" as the property name, in five days from the time of posting. In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes There has been some previous discussion:

Re: [uf-discuss] hRelease

FYI: -- Andy Mabbett Why are they set up on their own, did we poo-poo the concept at microformats.org or something? John ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http:

[uf-discuss] hRelease

FYI: -- Andy Mabbett ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

Andy Mabbett wrote: On the page I cited, the coordinates are in plain text, in the tags, as stated. Do you have javascript disabled? In that case, yes the geo:lat and geo:long appear there in plain text by default. Otherwise, normal users never see them unless they bother to hit the "Show ma

[uf-discuss] Geo -proposed move from draft to full spec (was: Geo - why still draft)

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ciaran McNulty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes On 4/9/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Why is "geo" still a draft, when it's included in the already-published hCard spec? It's th

Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom - proposed move from draft to full spec

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Brian Suda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes Recently, there has been alot of discuss on the IRC about implementing hAtom in Operator. As long as there are outstanding issues and questions about how things work, then i don't consider the spec "complete". Befo

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Christian Heilmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes Or click the "map" link to see other geo-tagged photos in the area that this one was taken. Well, you put the pictures on the map via drag and drop there, which is fine. The lat/lon also only shows up as a machine

RE: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

Didn't know that, thanks. -Original Message- From: Christian Heilmann > Or click the "map" link to see other geo-tagged photos in the area > that this one was taken. Well, you put the pictures on the map via drag and drop there, which is fine. The lat/lon also only shows up as a machine

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

Or click the "map" link to see other geo-tagged photos in the area that this one was taken. Well, you put the pictures on the map via drag and drop there, which is fine. The lat/lon also only shows up as a machine tag that is initially hidden - it is data that is for machine consumption. ___

RE: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

Or click the "map" link to see other geo-tagged photos in the area that this one was taken. -Original Message- From: Andy Mabbett Put "geo:lon" in the search box. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http:

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ciaran McNulty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes Pages such as: have coordinates exposed by default - look at the tags. They currently have: "250,911 results for photos matching geo:lon" I can't s

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

On 6/27/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Nope. Pages such as: have coordinates exposed by default - look at the tags. They currently have: "250,911 results for photos matching geo:lon" Andy, I can't see this, but

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >Quoting Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >> You can doubt all you like, but the evidence is still there ;-) >> >> Flickr and Wikipedia are two prominent examples. > >Tellingly, Flickr hides that stuff by default. Nope

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

On Jun 27, 2007, at 12:22 AM, Christian Heilmann wrote: Geo becomes useful by conversion to something human understandable, like a map or a named location. This is kind of a pointless debate, for two reasons. First, it's impossible to retract an already-published standard. Second, the go

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

Quoting Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: You can doubt all you like, but the evidence is still there ;-) Flickr and Wikipedia are two prominent examples. Tellingly, Flickr hides that stuff by default. Wikipedia, being user generated, isn't always a beacon of best practice for usability and

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

Ben Buchanan wrote: I also think calling an empty element "valid HTML" stretches the truth a bit :) No, that much is entirely true. The problem is the real target is markup that conforms to the (X)HTML specifications, not merely markup that validates to an (X)HTML DTD or schema: http://www.

RE: [uf-discuss] Phone numbers not "exported"

Yeah, that's got it. Thanks. -Original Message- From: Mike Kaply Each tel needs to be unique. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes Quoting Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: There is *evidence* that people want to, and do, publish coordinates; and in decimal format at that. On what types of sites? It's all about context and target audience. If

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

Quoting Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: There is *evidence* that people want to, and do, publish coordinates; and in decimal format at that. On what types of sites? It's all about context and target audience. If it was the Northwest Chapter of Geocachers or something, I'd understand. If

Re: [uf-discuss] Wiki vandalism: species-brainstorming

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Frances Berriman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes On 27/06/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: has been vandalised, such that it cannot be edited or read. I went back to the previous version and was able

Re: [uf-discuss] Wiki vandalism: species-brainstorming

On 27/06/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: has been vandalised, such that it cannot be edited or read. I went back to the previous version and was able to edit this version, and therefore save it as current. Can you take a look an

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Christian Heilmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >Also, speaking as a human being, what is the point of lat/lon >information being displayed to me anyways? I cannot fathom [...] You're making the - common - mistake of assuming that, because you don't understand, l

[uf-discuss] Wiki vandalism: species-brainstorming

has been vandalised, such that it cannot be edited or read. -- Andy Mabbett ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/micr

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

>Also, speaking as a human being, what is the point of lat/lon >information being displayed to me anyways? I cannot fathom [...] You're making the - common - mistake of assuming that, because you don't understand, like, want or do something, nobody else does. Well, we just conducted usability t

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

Quoting Michael MD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Why? Unless you are a geography geek there is not that much sense in it. Geo becomes useful by conversion to something human understandable, like a map or a named location. For print you could just override the style in the print stylesheet. I can't see

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Christian Heilmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes Also, speaking as a human being, what is the point of lat/lon information being displayed to me anyways? I cannot fathom [...] You're making the - common - mistake of assuming that, because you don't understand, li

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

On 6/27/07, Christian Heilmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Why? Unless you are a geography geek there is not that much sense in it. Geo becomes useful by conversion to something human understandable, like a map or a named location. For print you could just override the style in the print styleshee

Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

You may want to write it down, print it out, etc. Why? Unless you are a geography geek there is not that much sense in it. Geo becomes useful by conversion to something human understandable, like a map or a named location. For print you could just override the style in the print stylesheet.