On Wed, 14 Apr 2010, Kenneth R Westerback wrote:
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 05:54:35PM -0600, Diana Eichert wrote:
yep, like I know a lot more about alfalfa, fertilzer and weed control
since I planted several acres.
I did a LOT of reading on Ag sites before I started asking questions
at the feed
Nature does not recognize entitlement.
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 08:57:54PM -0400, Zachary Uram wrote:
> As does yours. Try being positive instead of negative.
>
> Zach
>
> <>< http://www.fidei.org ><>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:50 PM, Tony Abernethy
> wrote:
> > Zachary Uram wrote:
>
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:12:26PM -0300, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO wrote:
> > My "fix" has nothing to do with childish attitude or being more nerdy than
> > you. It has everything do with GNU's twisted definition of freedom.
> >
>
> Yet, that's YOUR view on the subject. My views are quite differ
ards them. Just what I
> >> have briefly observed the OpenBSD community is more abrupt and less
> >> interested in helping newbies, they prefer one find the answer solely
> >> on their own if possible. I must say I detect a certain attitude that
> >> smacks of supe
community is more
> > abrupt and less interested in helping newbies, they prefer one
> > find the answer solely on their own if possible.
>
> Yes.
>
> > I must say I detect a certain attitude that smacks of superiority
> > and even condescension at times. Is this
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:01:22PM -0300, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO wrote:
> > > The difference is that OpenBSD is for advanced users.
> >
> > depends how you define advanced.
> >
>
> Yes. Imagine someone who use computers, like 2 hours a week and
> use Windows. If you give him a computer with one
sums it up very nicely. I think 'e's got it!
If it isn't possible, that indicates a deficiency in documentation
which should be fixed. If it is possible, why the hell did someone
spend a lot of time writing Fine Manuals when you won't Read Them?
> I must say I detect a certai
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 05:54:35PM -0600, Diana Eichert wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Apr 2010, Jacob Meuser wrote:
> SNIP
> >approach it like a developer. developers *enjoy* figuring things
> >out on their own. of course, people who enjoy learning about a
> >subject do eventually become "advanced" at that
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Zachary Uram wrote:
> You get lost. You seem to think the project exists as an end unto
> itself.
And why can't it? Seriously, please explain this.
> Develop the most wonderful kernel and userspace in the world
> but if no one uses it what is the point?
The poi
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 6:05 AM, Greg Thomas wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Aaron Glenn wrote:
>
>>
>> sincerity by itself is useless. if you can't take the time to read the
>> concise, thoughtfully produced information provided in both manual
>> pages, the FAQ, and the mailing list ar
> My "fix" has nothing to do with childish attitude or being more nerdy than
> you. It has everything do with GNU's twisted definition of freedom.
>
Yet, that's YOUR view on the subject. My views are quite different.
You probably hate the GPL. I like it.
So let's stop arguing because this is a
Sure. . . I'll add some "wisdom" to this thread . . . I'm feeling up to it!
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Zachary Uram wrote:
> You get lost. You seem to think the project exists as an end unto
> itself.
>
Is there a reason why it can't?
>Develop the most wonderful kernel and userspace in th
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 6:14 PM, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO <
vt...@c3sl.ufpr.br> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm much more inclined to the GNU/Linux philosophy of Limitation
> > >
> >
> > Fixed that for you.
> >
> > Greg
> >
>
> This kind of childish attitude is what I meant when I said:
>
> > You will find
Zachary Uram wrote:
>
> Sorry a lot of people got upset by my message. I will try to learn
> OpenBSD on my own since that is the way to do it here.
>
That is the way to learn most anything that actually matters.
I don't think that people were so much upset as they prefer
to gladly make foo
> > I'm much more inclined to the GNU/Linux philosophy of Limitation
> >
>
> Fixed that for you.
>
> Greg
>
This kind of childish attitude is what I meant when I said:
> You will find this almost everywhere. One particular issue of some
> OpenBSD users is that they feel cool because they use Open
> Actually two of the top linux kernel developers answered my email
> directly to them when I had some questions. There was no ridicule or
> belittling.
>
lol!
I WANT to see that! Really.
I am POSITIVE you are a troll.
> -Original Message-
> From: Zachary Uram [mailto:net...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 7:58 PM
> To: Tony Abernethy
> Cc: Bret S. Lambert; misc@openbsd.org
> Subject: Re: OpenBSD culture?
>
> As does yours. Tr
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Zachary Uram wrote:
> Develop the most wonderful kernel and userspace in the world
> but if no one uses it what is the point?
It appears you haven't read the project's goals:
http://openbsd.org/goals.html
Quote:
"Focus on being developer-oriented in all sense
> > The difference is that OpenBSD is for advanced users.
>
> depends how you define advanced.
>
Yes. Imagine someone who use computers, like 2 hours a week and
use Windows. If you give him a computer with one of those GNU/Linux
distros aimed at ease of use he will probably get along easily -
unti
> Actually two of the top linux kernel developers answered my email
> directly to them when I had some questions. There was no ridicule or
> belittling.
Please get off the mailing lists and go read the documentation.
As does yours. Try being positive instead of negative.
Zach
<>< http://www.fidei.org ><>
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:50 PM, Tony Abernethy wrote:
> Zachary Uram wrote:
>>
>> Your attitude proves my point. I was not trolling. Grow up!
>>
> Another of the type of statement guaranteed to be false.
Zachary Uram wrote:
>
> You get lost. You seem to think the project exists as an end unto
> itself. Develop the most wonderful kernel and userspace in the world
> but if no one uses it what is the point? Since your attitude to new
> users is "get lost" that reflects very poorly on yourself an
Sorry a lot of people got upset by my message. I will try to learn
OpenBSD on my own since that is the way to do it here.
Zach
<>< http://www.fidei.org ><>
Actually two of the top linux kernel developers answered my email
directly to them when I had some questions. There was no ridicule or
belittling.
Zach
<>< http://www.fidei.org ><>
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Bayard Bell
wrote:
> Am 14 Apr 2010 um 14:50 schrieb Theo de Raadt:
>
>> I gue
Zachary Uram wrote:
>
> Your attitude proves my point. I was not trolling. Grow up!
>
Another of the type of statement guaranteed to be false.
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:15 AM, Chris Bennett
wrote:
> OpenBSD does indeed have a different culture.
> You are expected to try and learn on your own.
> If you make that attempt and still fail, you will probably get some help.
> If you have a problem with a port or hardware and clearly explain the
briefly observed the OpenBSD community is more abrupt and less
>> interested in helping newbies, they prefer one find the answer solely
>> on their own if possible. I must say I detect a certain attitude that
>> smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fai
ity is more abrupt and less
>> interested in helping newbies, they prefer one find the answer solely
>> on their own if possible. I must say I detect a certain attitude that
>> smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
>> assessment of 6the OpenBSD cu
dliness in Linux community towards them. Just what I
>> have briefly observed the OpenBSD community is more abrupt and less
>> interested in helping newbies, they prefer one find the answer solely
>> on their own if possible. I must say I detect a certain attitude that
>>
certain attitude that
>> smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
>> assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
>>
>> Zach
>>
>> <>< http://www.fidei.org ><>
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Aaron Glenn wrote:
>
> sincerity by itself is useless. if you can't take the time to read the
> concise, thoughtfully produced information provided in both manual
> pages, the FAQ, and the mailing list archives then you will most
> definitely be told to gfy and re
nterested in helping newbies, they prefer one
> > find the answer solely on their own if possible.
>
> Yes.
>
> > I must say I detect a certain attitude that smacks of superiority
> > and even condescension at times. Is this a fair assessment of the
> > OpenBSD culture?
n if possible. I must say I detect a certain attitude that
> smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
> assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
sincerity by itself is useless. if you can't take the time to read the
concise, thoughtfully produced information provi
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010, Jacob Meuser wrote:
SNIP
approach it like a developer. developers *enjoy* figuring things
out on their own. of course, people who enjoy learning about a
subject do eventually become "advanced" at that subject, but that
comes with time.
yep, like I know a lot more about al
find the answer solely
> > on their own if possible. I must say I detect a certain attitude that
> > smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
> > assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
>
> I guess this is the "get lost" mail he is referri
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 07:33:20PM -0300, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO wrote:
> The difference is that OpenBSD is for advanced users.
depends how you define advanced.
when people say "OpenBSD is for developers", that does't mean you
have to be as knowledgable as a kernel hacker to use OpenBSD
effect
must say I detect a certain attitude that
smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
Zach
<>< http://www.fidei.org ><>
OpenBSD does indeed have a different culture.
You are expected to try and learn on your own.
If you
what I have briefly observed the OpenBSD community is more
> abrupt and less interested in helping newbies, they prefer one
> find the answer solely on their own if possible.
Yes.
> I must say I detect a certain attitude that smacks of superiority
> and even condescension at times.
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Jean-Philippe Ouellet <
jean-phili...@ouellet.biz> wrote:
>
> It has been been my experience that if you are willing to read the relevant
> documentation and honestly try to fix your problem on your own but simply
> cannot, the OpenBSD community will be *extremely*
itude that
smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
Zach
<>< http://www.fidei.org><>
It has been been my experience that if you are willing to read the
relevant documentation and honestly try to fix your probl
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 01:10:47PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> > > Around 3 months after starting it, the author deleted all the records
> > > except the FreeBSD ones.
> >
> > That's really bizarre behavior. I was not aware of that part. If the
> > data isn't actually collected or used sensibl
Zack et all,
The OpenBSD community is neither rude nor anti-newbies - they just take
their work personally. I am a newbie and have used this group without any
negative responses. The gruff talk people are referring to is based purely
on lazy questions.
Mehma
> Theo de Raadt writes:
>
> > Around 3 months after starting it, the author deleted all the records
> > except the FreeBSD ones.
>
> That's really bizarre behavior. I was not aware of that part. If the
> data isn't actually collected or used sensibly, then there is of
> course no reason to try
> > Around 3 months after starting it, the author deleted all the records
> > except the FreeBSD ones.
>
> That's really bizarre behavior. I was not aware of that part. If the
> data isn't actually collected or used sensibly, then there is of
> course no reason to try submitting data.
No, keep
Theo de Raadt writes:
> Around 3 months after starting it, the author deleted all the records
> except the FreeBSD ones.
That's really bizarre behavior. I was not aware of that part. If the
data isn't actually collected or used sensibly, then there is of
course no reason to try submitting data
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 08:36:39PM +0200, Peter N. M. Hansteen wrote:
> Ron McDowell writes:
>
> > rude to the casual users." Maybe that is why OpenBSD is so far down
> > the list at http://bsdstats.org/ .
>
> For whatever reason the bsdstats initiative never gained much
> popularity in OpenBSD
> > rude to the casual users." Maybe that is why OpenBSD is so far down
> > the list at http://bsdstats.org/ .
>
> For whatever reason the bsdstats initiative never gained much
> popularity in OpenBSD circles, but it's really easy to start dropping
> data into the pool there if you want to. As f
Ron McDowell writes:
> rude to the casual users." Maybe that is why OpenBSD is so far down
> the list at http://bsdstats.org/ .
For whatever reason the bsdstats initiative never gained much
popularity in OpenBSD circles, but it's really easy to start dropping
data into the pool there if you wan
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Matthias Kilian
wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 12:38:56PM -0500, Ron McDowell wrote:
>> Yup, nowhere in that goals page does it say anything about "don't be
>> rude to the casual users." Maybe that is why OpenBSD is so far down the
>> list at http://bsdstats.org
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 12:38:56PM -0500, Ron McDowell wrote:
> Yup, nowhere in that goals page does it say anything about "don't be
> rude to the casual users." Maybe that is why OpenBSD is so far down the
> list at http://bsdstats.org/ .
What detail in the original reply Theo sent to the OP (
On 14 April 2010 14:38, Ron McDowell wrote:
> Yup, nowhere in that goals page does it say anything about "don't be rude
to
> the casual users." Maybe that is why OpenBSD is so far down the list at
> http://bsdstats.org/ .
>
Oh yes, very accurate information, that only shows how many of us
instal
Yup, nowhere in that goals page does it say anything about "don't be
rude to the casual users." Maybe that is why OpenBSD is so far down the
list at http://bsdstats.org/ .
--
Ron McDowell
San Antonio TX
Jordi Espasa Clofent wrote:
http://www.openbsd.org/goals.html
http://www.openbsd.org/goals.html
--
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that
brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass
over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner
eye to see its path. Where the fear has
> "Michal" == Michal writes:
Michal> "Where can I get this piece of software" which just makes you angry as
Michal> it takes 5 seconds to search it.
There's a reason I have an IRC alias (/goo) for lmgtfy.com . Far too
many users want me to operate google for them.
--
Randal L. Schwartz -
n if possible. I must say I detect a certain attitude that
> smacks of superiority and even condescension at times.
> Is this a fair assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
You're right. Yep, of course NOT. Especially when you reply like;
"Try IRC client. It tells you when new mail! :)"
superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
openbsd is not about helping those who cannot or will not help
themselves. please attend your local linux users group, halfway house,
medical center or place of religious worship for this service.
Am 14 Apr 2010 um 14:50 schrieb Theo de Raadt:
I guess this is the "get lost" mail he is referring to.
Yes, it is a damn fair assessment. When you pay your taxes, do you go
make a personal request for assistance of your prime minister?
Your mail lies about what you saw, so here is the full ex
On 14 April 2010 10:50, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> ...
> To: Zachary Uram
> Subject: Re: hi
> In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Apr 2010 20:27:54 EDT."
>
> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 12:35:26 -0600
> From: Theo de Raadt
>
>> I am a long time Linux user and am interested in trying OpenBS
> but if a questioner seems sincere there is usually a certain
> level of friendliness in Linux community towards them.
I'm on Open/Free BSD, Fedora and Debian and while sometimes I find there
can be a bit of unnecessary rudeness on the OpenBSD ML it's a truck load
better then what you see on fedo
titude that
> smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
> assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
I guess this is the "get lost" mail he is referring to.
Yes, it is a damn fair assessment. When you pay your taxes, do you go
make a personal request for assistance of
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 07:17 -0400, "Steve Shockley"
wrote:
> On 4/14/2010 5:11 AM, Zachary Uram wrote:
> > smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
>
> I don't think they're superior and condescending... I think they're
> superior and busy.
>
>
Busy? There are more
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Steve Shockley wrote:
> On 4/14/2010 5:11 AM, Zachary Uram wrote:
>
>> smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
>>
>
> I don't think they're superior and condescending... I think they're
> s
attitude that
smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
Zach
<>< http://www.fidei.org ><>
I'd take this for "why can't we all just get along?" scolding.
I'd argue OpenBSD has the bes
superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
Zach
<>< http://www.fidei.org ><>
OpenBSD does indeed have a different culture.
You are expected to try and learn on your own.
If you make that attempt and still fail, you will
s of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
If you can not help yourself how can you help the project? Get lost.
Stas
On 4/14/2010 5:11 AM, Zachary Uram wrote:
smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
I don't think they're superior and condescending... I think they're
superior and busy.
ssible. I must say I detect a certain attitude that
smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
Funny you should ask. http://www.openbsd.org/papers/opencon06-culture.pdf
is one developer's take on the culture of the project (a n
I detect a certain attitude that
> smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
> assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
Funny you should ask. http://www.openbsd.org/papers/opencon06-culture.pdf
is one developer's take on the culture of the project (a nice talk as
I
ible. I must say I detect a certain attitude that
> smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
> assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
>
> Zach
I do not. Wouldn't you concider it disrespectfull if someone refuses
to read and research ? Its quite nic
ible. I must say I detect a certain attitude that
> smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
> assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
>
> Zach
The developers don't make OpenBSD for you, but they are good enough to
give away the fruits of those
ey prefer one find the answer solely
> on their own if possible. I must say I detect a certain attitude that
> smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
> assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
>
> Zach
>
> <>< http://www.fidei.org ><>
>
--
sergeyb@
one find the answer solely
> on their own if possible. I must say I detect a certain attitude that
> smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair
> assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
>
> Zach
>
> <>< http://www.fidei.org ><>
ndescension at times. Is this a fair
assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture?
Zach
<>< http://www.fidei.org ><>
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