Re: cvsync, rsync
2013/9/19 hru...@gmail.com Alexander Hall alexan...@beard.se wrote: Marc already anwered all your questions. Let me quote it. Fuck off The most brilliant answers of the experts: An old quote which fits nicely here: A book is a mirror: if an ape looks into it an apostle is hardly likely to look out. We have no words for speaking of wisdom to the stupid. He who understands the wise is wise already.
Re: cvsync, rsync
On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 08:01:13 +0200, Janne Johansson wrote: 2013/9/19 hru...@gmail.com Alexander Hall alexan...@beard.se wrote: Marc already anwered all your questions. Let me quote it. Fuck off The most brilliant answers of the experts: An old quote which fits nicely here: A book is a mirror: if an ape looks into it an apostle is hardly likely to look out. We have no words for speaking of wisdom to the stupid. He who understands the wise is wise already. +1*10^160 8-) R/ *** NOTE *** Please DO NOT CC me. I am subscribed to the list. Mail to the sender address that does not originate at the list server is tarpitted. The reply-to: address is provided for those who feel compelled to reply off list. Thankyou. Rod/ --- This life is not the real thing. It is not even in Beta. If it was, then OpenBSD would already have a man page for it.
Re: Ivy Bridge-EP Xeon (E5-2637v2) and Intel C602 Patsburg-A Chipset support
* Andy a...@brandwatch.com [2013-09-17 15:36]: On Tue 17 Sep 2013 13:48:45 BST, Stuart Henderson wrote: On 2013-09-16, Andy a...@brandwatch.com wrote: Planning to test Hennings new ALTQ subsystem diff on OpenBSD 5.4 with this hardware :D pardon the pedantry, but it's not altq.. Lol, yes sorry ;) *ALTQ's replacement.. Does it have a name yet, or are you sticking with; new super duper simple prio queuer? I'm not into marketing. It's just the new queueing subsystem. -- Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org BS Web Services GmbH, http://bsws.de, Full-Service ISP Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services. Dedicated Servers, Root to Fully Managed Henning Brauer Consulting, http://henningbrauer.com/
Re: Ivy Bridge-EP Xeon (E5-2637v2) and Intel C602 Patsburg-A Chipset support
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 09:14, Henning Brauer wrote: *ALTQ's replacement.. Does it have a name yet, or are you sticking with; new super duper simple prio queuer? I'm not into marketing. It's just the new queueing subsystem. JTNQ it is, then.
Re: Ivy Bridge-EP Xeon (E5-2637v2) and Intel C602 Patsburg-A Chipset support
On Thursday, September 19, 2013, Ted Unangst wrote: On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 09:14, Henning Brauer wrote: *ALTQ's replacement.. Does it have a name yet, or are you sticking with; new super duper simple prio queuer? I'm not into marketing. It's just the new queueing subsystem. JTNQ it is, then. pronounced jett'n que? --patrick
Re: Feedback about Desktop Environments
Personally, I'm an long time fvwm user. My partner wouldn't know where to start nor care to learn how to use that. Which is why I need to install a DE. Years ago I did use KDE3 and liked it but changed because I did not like KDE4. Don't forget especially with xfce you can take just parts of it like the panel or mix parts with gnome panel or gkrellm. You may lose some features? without some parts like xfvwm but will likely gain some speed, simplicity and existing fvwm configs. One thing I am not fond of in xfce compared to fvwm is it being annoying to configure using a text editor and config file copying and locking it down only being semi filesystem based and again not so straight forward. -- ___ 'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface' (Doug McIlroy) ___
general question about usb stack and ups
Hello, everybody. A few days ago I've bought a new ups, as a replacement for my old one, which got it's last way to junkyard. The old one had RS232 порт, and the new one is an USB ups. Trying different ways to connect it to OpenBSD, but everything I've tried fails. The UPS reports itself as: uhidev2 at uhub3 port 2 configuration 1 interface 0 ATCL FOR UPS ATCL FOR UPS rev 2.00/0.00 addr 4 uhidev2: iclass 3/0 uhid2 at uhidev2: input=8, output=8, feature=0 I've connected it to Windows via USB, and installed software which came with it, snooped the protocol, and I am dead sure it is an old and frayed Megatec/Q1, which should work with blazer_usb driver from nut. But it isn't. Seems I've tried nearly every option and allowed option combinations with no result. I cannot get you the usbdevs usbhidctl right now, because I left it connected to windows, and it is at home. So, my question is: could it the differences in usb stack between various OSes, that are giving the trouble? Will try connect it to linux and NetBSD later, but I am willing to solve the puzzle with OpenBSD. -- With best regards, Gregory Edigarov
Re: general question about usb stack and ups
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:20:14PM +0300, Gregory Edigarov wrote: Hello, everybody. A few days ago I've bought a new ups, as a replacement for my old one, which got it's last way to junkyard. The old one had RS232 порт, and the new one is an USB ups. Trying different ways to connect it to OpenBSD, but everything I've tried fails. The UPS reports itself as: uhidev2 at uhub3 port 2 configuration 1 interface 0 ATCL FOR UPS ATCL FOR UPS rev 2.00/0.00 addr 4 uhidev2: iclass 3/0 uhid2 at uhidev2: input=8, output=8, feature=0 I've connected it to Windows via USB, and installed software which came with it, snooped the protocol, and I am dead sure it is an old and frayed Megatec/Q1, which should work with blazer_usb driver from nut. But it isn't. Seems I've tried nearly every option and allowed option combinations with no result. I cannot get you the usbdevs usbhidctl right now, because I left it connected to windows, and it is at home. So, my question is: could it the differences in usb stack between various OSes, that are giving the trouble? Will try connect it to linux and NetBSD later, but I am willing to solve the puzzle with OpenBSD. Not sure if that is your issue, but just in case: the UPS tools (blazer_usb, upsd, ...) run as user _ups. As such you need to ensure that the _ups user has access to the terminal interface -- e.g. /dev/ttyU0 . -- Antoine
Re: general question about usb stack and ups
On 19/09/13(Thu) 12:20, Gregory Edigarov wrote: Hello, everybody. A few days ago I've bought a new ups, as a replacement for my old one, which got it's last way to junkyard. The old one had RS232 порт, and the new one is an USB ups. Trying different ways to connect it to OpenBSD, but everything I've tried fails. The UPS reports itself as: uhidev2 at uhub3 port 2 configuration 1 interface 0 ATCL FOR UPS ATCL FOR UPS rev 2.00/0.00 addr 4 uhidev2: iclass 3/0 uhid2 at uhidev2: input=8, output=8, feature=0 I've connected it to Windows via USB, and installed software which came with it, snooped the protocol, and I am dead sure it is an old and frayed Megatec/Q1, which should work with blazer_usb driver from nut. But it isn't. Seems I've tried nearly every option and allowed option combinations with no result. I cannot get you the usbdevs usbhidctl right now, because I left it connected to windows, and it is at home. So, my question is: could it the differences in usb stack between various OSes, that are giving the trouble? Will try connect it to linux and NetBSD later, but I am willing to solve the puzzle with OpenBSD. nut depends on the libusb to talk to the ups, and to be fully functional with the libusb your device must be attached to ugen(4). That's why usb_quirks.c contains various UPS. Could you try adding a quirk for your device and see if it works? If you don't know how to do it, please post the output of usbdevs -dv so that somebody can make a diff with the right values. Martin
Re: general question about usb stack and ups
On 09/19/2013 12:20 PM, Gregory Edigarov wrote: Hello, everybody. A few days ago I've bought a new ups, as a replacement for my old one, which got it's last way to junkyard. The old one had RS232 порт, and the new one is an USB ups. Trying different ways to connect it to OpenBSD, but everything I've tried fails. The UPS reports itself as: uhidev2 at uhub3 port 2 configuration 1 interface 0 ATCL FOR UPS ATCL FOR UPS rev 2.00/0.00 addr 4 uhidev2: iclass 3/0 uhid2 at uhidev2: input=8, output=8, feature=0 I've connected it to Windows via USB, and installed software which came with it, snooped the protocol, and I am dead sure it is an old and frayed Megatec/Q1, which should work with blazer_usb driver from nut. But it isn't. Seems I've tried nearly every option and allowed option combinations with no result. I cannot get you the usbdevs usbhidctl right now, because I left it connected to windows, and it is at home. So, my question is: could it the differences in usb stack between various OSes, that are giving the trouble? Will try connect it to linux and NetBSD later, but I am willing to solve the puzzle with OpenBSD. Oh, and another question: is there a way to quickly change usb device attachment? I.e. having a device that is attached as UHID, is there a way to reattach it as UGEN? -- With best regards, Gregory Edigarov
just the new queueing subsystem [Was: Re: Ivy Bridge-EP Xeon (E5-2637v2) and Intel C602 Patsburg-A Chipset support]
pkesh...@gmail.com (patrick keshishian), 2013.09.19 (Thu) 09:39 (CEST): On Thursday, September 19, 2013, Ted Unangst wrote: On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 09:14, Henning Brauer wrote: *ALTQ's replacement.. Does it have a name yet, or are you sticking with; new super duper simple prio queuer? I'm not into marketing. It's just the new queueing subsystem. Or more correctly: the new just queueing subsystem A byword would be handy nonetheless... JTNQ it is, then. searching the archives for JTNQ would yield better results than searching for just the new queueing subsystem, I suppose. pronounced jett'n que? And have all these wet people [1] here asking where to queue up? :-) Other obvious suggestions: HENQ, NEWQ, PQ [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetski
Re: general question about usb stack and ups
On 19 September 2013, Gregory Edigarov ediga...@qarea.com wrote: On 09/19/2013 12:20 PM, Gregory Edigarov wrote: Hello, everybody. A few days ago I've bought a new ups, as a replacement for my old one, which got it's last way to junkyard. The old one had RS232 , and the new one is an USB ups. Trying different ways to connect it to OpenBSD, but everything I've tried fails. The UPS reports itself as: uhidev2 at uhub3 port 2 configuration 1 interface 0 ATCL FOR UPS ATCL FOR UPS rev 2.00/0.00 addr 4 uhidev2: iclass 3/0 uhid2 at uhidev2: input=8, output=8, feature=0 I've connected it to Windows via USB, and installed software which came with it, snooped the protocol, and I am dead sure it is an old and frayed Megatec/Q1, which should work with blazer_usb driver from nut. But it isn't. Seems I've tried nearly every option and allowed option combinations with no result. I cannot get you the usbdevs usbhidctl right now, because I left it connected to windows, and it is at home. So, my question is: could it the differences in usb stack between various OSes, that are giving the trouble? Will try connect it to linux and NetBSD later, but I am willing to solve the puzzle with OpenBSD. Oh, and another question: is there a way to quickly change usb device attachment? I.e. having a device that is attached as UHID, is there a way to reattach it as UGEN? For nut on OpenBSD you need ugen(4). The quick and dirty way to achieve that is to disablei uhidev* in the kernel. The cleaner way is to patch usb_quirks.c, as pointed out by somebody else. You also need r/w permissions for group _ups to /dev/usb* and /dev/ugen0*, and possibly other things (use ktrace to find out). Regards, Liviu Daia
Re: just the new queueing subsystem [Was: Re: Ivy Bridge-EP Xeon (E5-2637v2) and Intel C602 Patsburg-A Chipset support]
My vote - *HENQ Chickens lined up.. On Thu 19 Sep 2013 11:34:03 BST, MERIGHI Marcus wrote: pkesh...@gmail.com (patrick keshishian), 2013.09.19 (Thu) 09:39 (CEST): On Thursday, September 19, 2013, Ted Unangst wrote: On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 09:14, Henning Brauer wrote: *ALTQ's replacement.. Does it have a name yet, or are you sticking with; new super duper simple prio queuer? I'm not into marketing. It's just the new queueing subsystem. Or more correctly: the new just queueing subsystem A byword would be handy nonetheless... JTNQ it is, then. searching the archives for JTNQ would yield better results than searching for just the new queueing subsystem, I suppose. pronounced jett'n que? And have all these wet people [1] here asking where to queue up? :-) Other obvious suggestions: HENQ, NEWQ, PQ [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetski
Re: cvsync, rsync
I want to give a hint for those working till now in the problem of estimating the probability of A=B under the condition of hash(A)=hash(B). Just suppose that hash is any function from a set X to Y, first suppose that X is finite (but very big), and that the probability to pick any element is the same (uniform). Y also finite (but not so big). A and B are supposed to be elements of X. But well, so much definition was not necessary: we know from where we have the problem, from the algorithm of rsync. And this problem is realy trivial. A little more complicated is to see the probability that rsync finds different A and B with hash(A)=hash(B), and hence with very high probability gives a false result. rsync divide the file in the client in m_1 (disjunct) blocks, the file in the server in m_2 blocks, and try to find blocks in the server with similar hash as blocks in the client. As said before, this is strongly dependent on the way the hash function maps X to Y. You may first suppose that it does it uniformly and calculate the probability that rsync does not find the collission. Rodrigo. Jan Stary h...@stare.cz wrote: On Sep 18 21:59:08, hru...@gmail.com wrote: What was the probability? Motherfucking troll, you have been given the answer like five times already. now get the fuck OFF. Rodrigo. Eric Furman ericfur...@fastmail.net wrote: Troll, the question has been answered. You are an entertaining troll, though. It is highly amusing seeing someone make themselves look so silly. On Tue, Sep 17, 2013, at 11:28 AM, hru...@gmail.com wrote: Marc Espie es...@nerim.net wrote: You have strings A and B, and you know only that hash(A)=hash(B): what is the probability that A=B? 2^-160? No, that's never the problem. You have a *given* string A, and another string B. O.K. You have string A in the client with hash(A)=n. You find string B in the server also with hash(B)=n. What is the probability that A=B? Rodrigo.
Re: Kernel panics on amd64 recently - do I have bad hardware?
This part: VOP_FSYNC() at VOP_FSYNC+0x2f ffs_sync_vnode() at ffs_sync_vnode+0x77 vfs_mount_foreach_vnode() at vfs_mount_foreach_vnode+0x38 ffs_sync() at ffs_sync+0x83 sys_sync() at sys_sync+0xa1 vfs_syncwait() at vfs_syncwait+0x50 vfs_shutdown() at vfs_shutdown+0x32 boot() at boot+0x17f panic() at panic+0xf6 is from the boot crash, not the original crash. Looking at the original crash: --- trap (number 8) --- ffs_update() at ffs_update+0x19f That points to the math in the ino_to_fsba() macro in this like of ffs_update() error = bread(ip-i_devvp, fsbtodb(fs, ino_to_fsba(fs, ip-i_number)), (int)fs-fs_bsize, bp); It's trying to calculate the block address of the inode so that it can update the timestamps in it and divided by zero. That means the in-memory copy of the superblock had zeros in on other another member. If the on-disk superblock had zeros there, I would expected fsck to catch it, or for it to crash earlier, but maybe a forced fsck is in order. Otherwise, something's writing through a bogus pointer in the kernel... Well, I was hopeful after I manually fscked everything on Monday, but it crashed again last night: fatal integer divide fault in supervisor mode trap type 8 code 0 rip 81292dff cs 8 rflags 10246 cr2 9c8edee6f0c cpl 0 rsp 8000226bac30 panic: trap type 8, code 0, pc=81292dff Starting stack trace... panic() at panic+0xfb trap() at trap+0x7f1 --- trap (number 8) --- ffs_update() at ffs_update+0x19f ufs_inactive() at ufs_inactive+0xd3 VOP_INACTIVE() at VOP_INACTIVE+0x28 vrele() at vrele+0x61 proc_zap() at proc_zap+0xa1 dowait4() at dowait4+0x2ca sys_wait4() at sys_wait4+0x38 syscall() at syscall+0x249 syscall -- (number 11) --- end of kernel end trace frame: 0x9caee03eba0, count: 247 0x9caf9cf4aea: End of stack trace. syncing disks... I can re-enable the ddb.panic setting so it *doesn't* automatically reboot, but I don't know what information from the debugger would be actually useful. If you can suggest some commands to run from the ddb prompt, I'll be more than happy to do so the next time it crashes. Thank you very much for any help! Benny -- No matter how tempted I am with the prospect of unlimited power, I will not consume any energy field bigger than my head. -- #22 on Peter Anspach's Evil Overlord list
Re: cvsync, rsync
Rodrigo, was there anything wrong with my answer below (and others equal), apart from it not being the one you wanted, since you keep repeating the same question over and over again? Do you have a better answer? Please share it for us to check. On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 03:58:34PM +0200, Raimo Niskanen wrote: On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 01:21:04PM +, hru...@gmail.com wrote: Raimo Niskanen raimo+open...@erix.ericsson.se wrote: When you have two different real world contents the collision probability is just that; 2^-160 for SHA-1. It is when you deliberately craft a second content to match a known hash value there may be weaknesses in cryptographic hash functions, but this is not what rsync nor Git does, as Marc Espie pointed out in this thread. You have strings A and B, and you know only that hash(A)=hash(B): what is the probability that A=B? 2^-160? You have to mean what is the probability that A != B, and it is 2 ^ (-160). If you actually mean what you wrote, the probability of A = B is 1 - (2 ^ (-160)), which is as said earlier in this thread higher than what you get when storing the string on disk and then reading it back. Rodrigo. -- / Raimo Niskanen, Erlang/OTP, Ericsson AB -- / Raimo Niskanen, Erlang/OTP, Ericsson AB
Re: just the new queueing subsystem [Was: Re: Ivy Bridge-EP Xeon (E5-2637v2) and Intel C602 Patsburg-A Chipset support]
On 2013-09-19, MERIGHI Marcus mcmer-open...@tor.at wrote: Other obvious suggestions: HENQ, NEWQ, PQ pff, the old one was ALTQ, clearly this should be NEUQ ;)
Re: general question about usb stack and ups
On 2013-09-19, Martin Pieuchot mpieuc...@nolizard.org wrote: nut depends on the libusb to talk to the ups, and to be fully functional with the libusb your device must be attached to ugen(4). That's why usb_quirks.c contains various UPS. Actually, NUT is perfectly happy with many UPS attached to uhid and I think many could be removed from usb_quirks now, though iirc there may have been problems with some (possibly with NUT, possibly with apcupsd, or maybe with both..).
Re: general question about usb stack and ups
On 2013-09-19, Gregory Edigarov ediga...@qarea.com wrote: I've connected it to Windows via USB, and installed software which came with it, snooped the protocol, and I am dead sure it is an old and frayed Megatec/Q1, which should work with blazer_usb driver from nut. But it isn't. Seems I've tried nearly every option and allowed option combinations with no result. Have you tried it with just usbhid-ups? Have you tried running nut-scanner to see what it suggests?
Re: cvsync, rsync
Raimo Niskanen raimo+open...@erix.ericsson.se wrote: Rodrigo, was there anything wrong with my answer below (and others equal), apart from it not being the one you wanted, since you keep repeating the same question over and over again? Do you have a better answer? Please share it for us to check. Raimo, if people believe that hash(A)=hash(B) implies A=B, so strong believe, that they use it in their programs, that they insult those that contradict them, then my answer will not convince them, because I say that hash(A)=hash(B) is very far away of implying A=B. If you get alone the answer, then it will be different, you will believe it. Just imagine the hash function as a function from X with cardinality m to an Y with cardinality n, where mn, m much bigger than n: how do look the set of the elements in X that are mapped to a single y in Y? Imagine the partition of X in theese sets X_1, , X_n with cardinalities m_1, , m_n and try to do conditional probabilities. But sure there is a more direct way. Just play with it. If you have one, two, three, a handful files with 4TB and calculate the hashes, the probability that two hashes coincide are sure far away. If rsync take two 4TB files, one in the client, one in the server, divide them in a lot of 500 bytes blocks, the one in the server in a lot more blocks than the one in the client, calculates hashes here and there, and compare hashes here with hashes there, then we have something completely different. From time to time I think I should follow Kenneth Westerbacks recomendation and go to a math-for-idiots list, for example to Usenet Group sci.math, and then make a link to this thread in gmane: they will sure admire Marc Espies wisdom and his efforts teaching idiots like me. Rodrigo.
Re: general question about usb stack and ups
On 09/19/2013 04:18 PM, Stuart Henderson wrote: On 2013-09-19, Gregory Edigarov ediga...@qarea.com wrote: I've connected it to Windows via USB, and installed software which came with it, snooped the protocol, and I am dead sure it is an old and frayed Megatec/Q1, which should work with blazer_usb driver from nut. But it isn't. Seems I've tried nearly every option and allowed option combinations with no result. Have you tried it with just usbhid-ups? Yes, with no result. Have you tried running nut-scanner to see what it suggests? Have just tried it remotely without the ups connected, just to see if and how that works. # nut-scanner -U Cannot load SNMP library (libnetsnmp) : file not found. SNMP search disabled. Cannot load XML library (libneon) : file not found. XML search disabled. Scanning USB bus. Segmentation fault (core dumped) # will retest with ups connected, once I will be at home. -- With best regards, Gregory Edigarov
Re: just the new queueing subsystem [Was: Re: Ivy Bridge-EP Xeon (E5-2637v2) and Intel C602 Patsburg-A Chipset support]
fair for the german, it is not zen tough NEUQ, like NUKE ? i vote for TheQueue, because What else ?! On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Stuart Henderson s...@spacehopper.orgwrote: On 2013-09-19, MERIGHI Marcus mcmer-open...@tor.at wrote: Other obvious suggestions: HENQ, NEWQ, PQ pff, the old one was ALTQ, clearly this should be NEUQ ;) -- - () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\
Re: just the new queueing subsystem [Was: Re: Ivy Bridge-EP Xeon (E5-2637v2) and Intel C602 Patsburg-A Chipset support]
2013/9/19 Stuart Henderson s...@spacehopper.org On 2013-09-19, MERIGHI Marcus mcmer-open...@tor.at wrote: Other obvious suggestions: HENQ, NEWQ, PQ pff, the old one was ALTQ, clearly this should be NEUQ ;) NEUQ sound like a region from Argentina: Neuquén
Re: New OSv with BSD license
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 10:50:16AM -0700, latin...@vcn.bc.ca wrote: On Wed, September 18, 2013 6:28 pm, Kapetanakis Giannis wrote: I've just came on this: http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/pipermail/linux-il/2013-September/010649.html Just a short quote of it: Hi, today we've made the first release of OSv, a new operating system for running applications on virtual machines. OSv is free software, released under the BSD license... a new operating system designed to run a single application on a virtual machine. G !DSPAM:1879,523a536392538370213113! Does it come from NSA?, it was made in Israel! Because it was Isreali Qumranet which was developing KVM a lot and tools around and which was then bought by Red Hat. j.
Re: New OSv with BSD license
On Wed, September 18, 2013 6:28 pm, Kapetanakis Giannis wrote: I've just came on this: http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/pipermail/linux-il/2013-September/010649.html Just a short quote of it: Hi, today we've made the first release of OSv, a new operating system for running applications on virtual machines. OSv is free software, released under the BSD license... a new operating system designed to run a single application on a virtual machine. G !DSPAM:1879,523a536392538370213113! Does it come from NSA?, it was made in Israel! --
Re: New OSv with BSD license
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Jiri B ji...@devio.us wrote: Because it was Isreali Qumranet which was developing KVM a lot and tools around and which was then bought by Red Hat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Bar_%28investor%29
Re: cvsync, rsync
On 09/19/2013 08:46 AM, hru...@gmail.com wrote: From time to time I think I should follow Kenneth Westerbacks recomendation and go to a math-for-idiots list, for example to Usenet Group sci.math, and then make a link to this thread in gmane: they will sure admire Marc Espies wisdom and his efforts teaching idiots like me. That seems like a useful exercise for you to do. Like Marc said very early on, rsync is based in part on Andrew Tridgell's PhD Thesis, Efficient Algorithms for Sorting and Synchronization. You can find it and read it at http://www.samba.org/~tridge/phd_thesis.pdf. A little more searching might also lead you to http://www.big.info/2013/04/md5-hash-collision-probability-using.html which tries to answer your exact question. It also points at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_attack where you'll see pretty much your exact questions answered. The probability of a collision of MD5, a 128-bit hash (used by modern rsync rather than MD4; ignoring the 16-bit rolling signature), for 2 4TB files is about 10^(-12). That's approximately on par with the likelihood of the hard drive reading a bit wrong after you're done using rsync (per Christian Weisberger). However, that's ignoring the rolling signature. In fact, you need to have both the rolling signature (16 bits) *and* the MD5 hash match at the same time. The probability of both combined is right about 10^(-15) of a hard drive read error. That is all of the math. The references and documents are right there. If you are still worried about it, you are trolling either misc@ or yourself or both. -- Matthew Weigel hacker unique idempot . ent
Verified OS concerns
Does OpenBSD plan to varify its (main) components, to reach the level of zero-bug software? If not, isn't there any concern that (future) varified OS will render OBSD redundant one day? /jo
Re: cvsync, rsync
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 01:46:20PM +, hru...@gmail.com wrote: Raimo, if people believe that hash(A)=hash(B) implies A=B, so strong believe, that they use it in their programs, It's a matter of engineering. Usually that is good enough. If you don't think it's good enough then you should probably also worry about how often strcmp(a, b) returns 0 when strings a and b don't match.
Re: cvsync, rsync
Since I mentioned the likelihood of a non-recoverable disk error, here's a terrific paper that should make everbody sleep very poorly: An Analysis of Data Corruption in the Storage Stack http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~bianca/papers/fast08.pdf -- Christian naddy Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Re: Verified OS concerns
Interesting thread... Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network. From: josef.winger@email.deSent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:30 PMTo: misc@openbsd.orgSubject: Verified OS concerns Does OpenBSD plan to varify its (main) components, to reach the level of zero-bug software? If not, isn't there any concern that (future) varified OS will render OBSD redundant one day? /jo
Re: Verified OS concerns
josef.win...@email.de writes: Does OpenBSD plan to varify its (main) components, to reach the level of zero-bug software? If not, isn't there any concern that (future) varified OS will render OBSD redundant one day? I remain unconvinced that it's possible to formally verify non-trivial code to be bug free. You remain free to convince me otherwise or point me to available verified non-trivial software roughly on par with a complete operating system. Then again, I'm not a core OpenBSD developer, so you're free to ignore me too. And yes, September is like that isn't it? - P -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: Verified OS concerns
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 05:14:37PM -0400, Nick Holland wrote: Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a general purpose OS with the basic reliability of my car, Actually, it looks more and more like the reverse is coming true.
Way too many crashes with recent snapshots
Hi there, I have this ancient IBM/lenovo T60 with me while working off-site. This machine used to be a reliable workhorse until recently. Since roughly around the time of the ABI changes to 64-bit time I get annoyed by 2~3 crashes per day. I usually run OpenBSD's latest snapshots on it and I can confirm that those snapshots are rock-solid. So here I am wondering if my I have to say farewell to my favorite worktool or if I missed some changes in the settings. E.g. one important Linux-binary (SoftMaker Office 2012) does not start up any more (and on startup the system complains that 'kern.emul.linux=1' is invalid). My next step would be to reinstall from the lastest snapshot-install54.iso to make shure everything is in sync. But if s.o. can provide additional advice I really would appreciate it. More infos needed? Time to say THANK YOU to the devs! (And yes - I did order 5.4 already!) Cheers, STEFAN ---OpenBSD 5.4-current (GENERIC.MP) #61: Sat Sep 14 14:04:00 MDT 2013 t...@i386.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC.MP cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU T2400 @ 1.83GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 1.83 GHz cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,SSE3,MWAIT,VMX,EST,TM2,xTPR,PDCM,PERF real mem = 3219517440 (3070MB) avail mem = 3155156992 (3008MB) mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 08/27/09, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfd6b0, SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xe0010 (68 entries) bios0: vendor LENOVO version 79ETE5WW (2.25 ) date 08/27/2009 bios0: LENOVO 200855G acpi0 at bios0: rev 2 acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5 acpi0: tables DSDT FACP SSDT ECDT TCPA APIC MCFG HPET BOOT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT acpi0: wakeup devices LID_(S3) SLPB(S3) LURT(S3) DURT(S3) EXP0(S4) EXP1(S4) EXP2(S4) EXP3(S4) PCI1(S4) USB0(S3) USB1(S3) USB2(S3) USB7(S3) HDEF(S4) acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits acpiec0 at acpi0 acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: apic clock running at 166MHz cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor) cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU T2400 @ 1.83GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 1.83 GHz cpu1: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,SSE3,MWAIT,VMX,EST,TM2,xTPR,PDCM,PERF ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 1 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins ioapic0: misconfigured as apic 2, remapped to apid 1 acpimcfg0 at acpi0 addr 0xf000, bus 0-63 acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0) acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus 1 (AGP_) acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus 2 (EXP0) acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus 3 (EXP1) acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus 4 (EXP2) acpiprt5 at acpi0: bus 12 (EXP3) acpiprt6 at acpi0: bus 21 (PCI1) acpicpu0 at acpi0: C3, C2, C1, PSS acpicpu1 at acpi0: C3, C2, C1, PSS acpipwrres0 at acpi0: PUBS acpitz0 at acpi0: critical temperature is 127 degC acpitz1 at acpi0: critical temperature is 99 degC acpibtn0 at acpi0: LID_ acpibtn1 at acpi0: SLPB acpibat0 at acpi0: BAT0 not present acpibat1 at acpi0: BAT1 not present acpiac0 at acpi0: AC unit online acpithinkpad0 at acpi0 acpidock0 at acpi0: GDCK not docked (0) bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xfe00 0xd/0x1000 0xd1000/0x1000 0xdc000/0x4000! 0xe/0x1! cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 1829 MHz: speeds: 1833, 1333, 1000 MHz pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios) pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel 82945GM Host rev 0x03 ppb0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 Intel 82945GM PCIE rev 0x03: apic 1 int 16 pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 radeondrm0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 ATI Radeon Mobility X1300 M52-64 rev 0x00: apic 1 int 16 drm0 at radeondrm0 azalia0 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 Intel 82801GB HD Audio rev 0x02: msi azalia0: codecs: Analog Devices AD1981HD, Conexant/0x2bfa, using Analog Devices AD1981HD audio0 at azalia0 ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02: apic 1 int 20 pci2 at ppb1 bus 2 em0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 Intel 82573L rev 0x00: msi, address 00:15:58:31:de:bd ppb2 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02: apic 1 int 21 pci3 at ppb2 bus 3 wpi0 at pci3 dev 0 function 0 Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG rev 0x02: msi, MoW2, address 00:18:de:9c:fd:27 ppb3 at pci0 dev 28 function 2 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02: apic 1 int 22 pci4 at ppb3 bus 4 vendor Renesas, unknown product 0x0015 (class serial bus subclass USB, rev 0x02) at pci4 dev 0 function 0 not configured ppb4 at pci0 dev 28 function 3 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02: apic 1 int 23 pci5 at ppb4 bus 12 uhci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: apic 1 int 16 uhci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: apic 1 int 17 uhci2 at pci0 dev 29 function 2 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: apic 1 int 18 uhci3 at pci0 dev 29 function 3 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: apic 1 int 19 ehci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: apic 1 int 19 usb0 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0 uhub0 at usb0 Intel EHCI root hub rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 ppb5 at pci0 dev 30 function 0 Intel 82801BAM Hub-to-PCI rev
Re: Verified OS concerns
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 10:29:39PM +0200, josef.win...@email.de wrote: Does OpenBSD plan to varify its (main) components, to reach the level of zero-bug software? No. Zeno convinced us that you can't get there from here. If not, isn't there any concern that (future) varified OS will render OBSD redundant one day? No. Think of it as evolution in action. Ken
Re: Verified OS concerns
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 22:29, josef.win...@email.de wrote: Does OpenBSD plan to varify its (main) components, to reach the level of zero-bug software? If not, isn't there any concern that (future) varified OS will render OBSD redundant one day? Short answer: no. Long answer: still no.
Re: Verified OS concerns
On 09/19/2013 04:29 PM, josef.win...@email.de wrote: Does OpenBSD plan to varify its (main) components, to reach the level of zero-bug software? you mean, painfully reviewing and auditing code? what do you think they've been trying to do for the last 15 years? And after that, they have been trying to make sure when there are bugs anyway, they can't be exploited. Over-all, they've been pretty darned successful. Certainly more so than the people who have claimed to have a way to write perfect code. If not, isn't there any concern that (future) varified OS will render OBSD redundant one day? I suspect few openbsd developers will ever be caught sitting around saying, I'm bored. You mean some mathamagical way to PROVE perfection? don't hold your breath. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a general purpose OS with the basic reliability of my car, and the ability to do ANYTHING with it without worrying about the security implications. It would be fun to not worry about security. But ... ain't gonna happen. Been in this crap for 31 years now. All the technology that's been thrown at the problem of security hasn't changed a thing. We don't want to train users, so nothing is going to change. We like features and performance over quality, so again, nothing is going to change. At this point, it is your turn. Shut up and produce your proven perfect OS, and show us the result. Don't tell us it's possible, DO IT. It's that simple. Use any tools you want, write some non-trivial apps that make it useful for something. I'll even spot you an eight core 2G RAM system to do what I was doing with 32M RAM and a 486 15 years ago. When you have it, publish the source code and let us know. I'll be the guy running the pool for when someone first pops it. My $1 is on five hours. I hope I lose. Nick.
Way too many crashes with recent snapshots (non-HTML-version)
Send a second time as this webmail-programm changed to HTML again... this mail should be better to read. Hi there, I have this ancient IBM/lenovo T60 with me while working off-site. This machine used to be a reliable workhorse until recently. Since roughly around the time of the ABI changes to 64-bit time I get annoyed by 2~3 crashes per day. I usually run OpenBSD's latest snapshots on it and I can confirm that those snapshots are rock-solid. So here I am wondering if my I have to say farewell to my favorite worktool or if I missed some changes in the settings. E.g. one important Linux-binary (SoftMaker Office 2012) does not start up any more (and on startup the system complains that 'kern.emul.linux=1' is invalid). My next step would be to reinstall from the lastest snapshot-install54.iso to make shure everything is in sync. But if s.o. can provide additional advice I really would appreciate it. More infos needed? Time to say THANK YOU to the devs! (And yes - I did order 5.4 already!) Cheers, STEFAN --- OpenBSD 5.4-current (GENERIC.MP) #61: Sat Sep 14 14:04:00 MDT 2013 t...@i386.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC.MP cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU T2400 @ 1.83GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 1.83 GHz cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,SSE3,MWAIT,VMX,EST,TM2,xTPR,PDCM,PERF real mem = 3219517440 (3070MB) avail mem = 3155156992 (3008MB) mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 08/27/09, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfd6b0, SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xe0010 (68 entries) bios0: vendor LENOVO version 79ETE5WW (2.25 ) date 08/27/2009 bios0: LENOVO 200855G acpi0 at bios0: rev 2 acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5 acpi0: tables DSDT FACP SSDT ECDT TCPA APIC MCFG HPET BOOT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT acpi0: wakeup devices LID_(S3) SLPB(S3) LURT(S3) DURT(S3) EXP0(S4) EXP1(S4) EXP2(S4) EXP3(S4) PCI1(S4) USB0(S3) USB1(S3) USB2(S3) USB7(S3) HDEF(S4) acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits acpiec0 at acpi0 acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: apic clock running at 166MHz cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor) cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU T2400 @ 1.83GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 1.83 GHz cpu1: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,SSE3,MWAIT,VMX,EST,TM2,xTPR,PDCM,PERF ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 1 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins ioapic0: misconfigured as apic 2, remapped to apid 1 acpimcfg0 at acpi0 addr 0xf000, bus 0-63 acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0) acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus 1 (AGP_) acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus 2 (EXP0) acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus 3 (EXP1) acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus 4 (EXP2) acpiprt5 at acpi0: bus 12 (EXP3) acpiprt6 at acpi0: bus 21 (PCI1) acpicpu0 at acpi0: C3, C2, C1, PSS acpicpu1 at acpi0: C3, C2, C1, PSS acpipwrres0 at acpi0: PUBS acpitz0 at acpi0: critical temperature is 127 degC acpitz1 at acpi0: critical temperature is 99 degC acpibtn0 at acpi0: LID_ acpibtn1 at acpi0: SLPB acpibat0 at acpi0: BAT0 not present acpibat1 at acpi0: BAT1 not present acpiac0 at acpi0: AC unit online acpithinkpad0 at acpi0 acpidock0 at acpi0: GDCK not docked (0) bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xfe00 0xd/0x1000 0xd1000/0x1000 0xdc000/0x4000! 0xe/0x1! cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 1829 MHz: speeds: 1833, 1333, 1000 MHz pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios) pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel 82945GM Host rev 0x03 ppb0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 Intel 82945GM PCIE rev 0x03: apic 1 int 16 pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 radeondrm0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 ATI Radeon Mobility X1300 M52-64 rev 0x00: apic 1 int 16 drm0 at radeondrm0 azalia0 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 Intel 82801GB HD Audio rev 0x02: msi azalia0: codecs: Analog Devices AD1981HD, Conexant/0x2bfa, using Analog Devices AD1981HD audio0 at azalia0 ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02: apic 1 int 20 pci2 at ppb1 bus 2 em0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 Intel 82573L rev 0x00: msi, address 00:15:58:31:de:bd ppb2 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02: apic 1 int 21 pci3 at ppb2 bus 3 wpi0 at pci3 dev 0 function 0 Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG rev 0x02: msi, MoW2, address 00:18:de:9c:fd:27 ppb3 at pci0 dev 28 function 2 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02: apic 1 int 22 pci4 at ppb3 bus 4 vendor Renesas, unknown product 0x0015 (class serial bus subclass USB, rev 0x02) at pci4 dev 0 function 0 not configured ppb4 at pci0 dev 28 function 3 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02: apic 1 int 23 pci5 at ppb4 bus 12 uhci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: apic 1 int 16 uhci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: apic 1 int 17 uhci2 at pci0 dev 29 function 2 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: apic 1 int 18 uhci3 at pci0 dev 29 function 3 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: apic 1 int 19 ehci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 Intel 82801GB USB rev 0x02: apic 1 int
Re: cvsync, rsync
Since I mentioned the likelihood of a non-recoverable disk error, here's a terrific paper that should make everbody sleep very poorly: An Analysis of Data Corruption in the Storage Stack http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~bianca/papers/fast08.pdf They claim the paper is based on 1.53 million disk drives. It is interesting they were able to access such a number.
Re: Verified OS concerns
On 09/20/13 00:00, thornton.rich...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting thread... Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network. this is misc@, not twitter. while i finally reply to message by you, i want to ask a question. how about dropping at least the 'Wireless' out of your annoying signature? it would fit in a single line. I've never heard of Wired 4G LTE network. From: josef.winger@email.deSent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:30 PMTo: misc@openbsd.orgSubject: Verified OS concerns Does OpenBSD plan to varify its (main) components, to reach the level of zero-bug software? If not, isn't there any concern that (future) varified OS will render OBSD redundant one day? /jo With the hardware at large, you're likely a troll for asking. -Artturi
cvs up
Hi there, working off-site for a few days I took my ancient IBM/lenovo T60 (i386 - bsd.mp) with me. Two days ago I upgraded to the latest snapshot, #61 as of September, 17th, from openbsd.cs.fau.de. (dmesg at the end) Tonight I updated /usr/src via cvs. It appeared to me that a whole copy of /usr was installed to /usr/gnu/usr.bin/gcc/ginclude.Example:$ ls -alh /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/gcc/ginclude/ports/archivers/bzip2/ total 32 drwxr-xr-x 6 root wsrc 512B Sep 19 22:30 . drwxr-xr-x 70 root wsrc 1.5K Sep 19 22:30 .. drwxr-xr-x 2 root wsrc 512B Sep 19 22:30 CVS -rw-r--r-- 1 root wsrc 905B Apr 4 18:03 Makefile -rw-r--r-- 1 root wsrc 110B Apr 4 18:03 distinfo drwxr-xr-x 3 root wsrc 512B Sep 19 22:30 files drwxr-xr-x 3 root wsrc 512B Sep 19 22:30 patches drwxr-xr-x 3 root wsrc 512B Sep 19 22:30 pkg $ ls -alh /usr/ports/archivers/bzip2 total 28 drwxr-xr-x 5 root wheel 512B Sep 17 19:57 . drwxr-xr-x 60 root wheel 1.5K Sep 17 19:57 .. drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512B Sep 17 19:57 CVS -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 905B Apr 4 18:03 Makefile -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 110B Apr 4 18:03 distinfo drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 512B Aug 19 22:58 patches drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 512B Aug 19 22:58 pkg Just to be shure: Is this update of /usr correct? I have the impression that something went wrong as I got e.g.U gnu/usr.bin/gcc/ginclude/www/papers/strlcpy-paper.pdf U gnu/usr.bin/gcc/ginclude/www/papers/strlcpy-paper.ps U gnu/usr.bin/gcc/ginclude/www/papers/strlcpy-slides.pdf U gnu/usr.bin/gcc/ginclude/www/papers/strlcpy-slides.ps Beside this: In the last weeks the laptop crashes at least 2~3 times/day with the latest snapshots but I make it a thread of its own. Do you need any further input? Cheers,STEFAN --- OpenBSD 5.4-current (GENERIC.MP) #61: Sat Sep 14 14:04:00 MDT 2013 t...@i386.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC.MP cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU T2400 @ 1.83GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 1.83 GHz cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,SSE3,MWAIT,VMX,EST,TM2,xTPR,PDCM,PERF real mem = 3219517440 (3070MB) avail mem = 3155156992 (3008MB) mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 08/27/09, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfd6b0, SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xe0010 (68 entries) bios0: vendor LENOVO version 79ETE5WW (2.25 ) date 08/27/2009 bios0: LENOVO 200855G acpi0 at bios0: rev 2 acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5 acpi0: tables DSDT FACP SSDT ECDT TCPA APIC MCFG HPET BOOT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT acpi0: wakeup devices LID_(S3) SLPB(S3) LURT(S3) DURT(S3) EXP0(S4) EXP1(S4) EXP2(S4) EXP3(S4) PCI1(S4) USB0(S3) USB1(S3) USB2(S3) USB7(S3) HDEF(S4) acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits acpiec0 at acpi0 acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: apic clock running at 166MHz cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor) cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU T2400 @ 1.83GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 1.83 GHz cpu1: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,SSE3,MWAIT,VMX,EST,TM2,xTPR,PDCM,PERF ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 1 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins ioapic0: misconfigured as apic 2, remapped to apid 1 acpimcfg0 at acpi0 addr 0xf000, bus 0-63 acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0) acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus 1 (AGP_) acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus 2 (EXP0) acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus 3 (EXP1) acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus 4 (EXP2) acpiprt5 at acpi0: bus 12 (EXP3) acpiprt6 at acpi0: bus 21 (PCI1) acpicpu0 at acpi0: C3, C2, C1, PSS acpicpu1 at acpi0: C3, C2, C1, PSS acpipwrres0 at acpi0: PUBS acpitz0 at acpi0: critical temperature is 127 degC acpitz1 at acpi0: critical temperature is 99 degC acpibtn0 at acpi0: LID_ acpibtn1 at acpi0: SLPB acpibat0 at acpi0: BAT0 not present acpibat1 at acpi0: BAT1 not present acpiac0 at acpi0: AC unit online acpithinkpad0 at acpi0 acpidock0 at acpi0: GDCK not docked (0) bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xfe00 0xd/0x1000 0xd1000/0x1000 0xdc000/0x4000! 0xe/0x1! cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 1829 MHz: speeds: 1833, 1333, 1000 MHz pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios) pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel 82945GM Host rev 0x03 ppb0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 Intel 82945GM PCIE rev 0x03: apic 1 int 16 pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 radeondrm0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 ATI Radeon Mobility X1300 M52-64 rev 0x00: apic 1 int 16 drm0 at radeondrm0 azalia0 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 Intel 82801GB HD Audio rev 0x02: msi azalia0: codecs: Analog Devices AD1981HD, Conexant/0x2bfa, using Analog Devices AD1981HD audio0 at azalia0 ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02: apic 1 int 20 pci2 at ppb1 bus 2 em0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 Intel 82573L rev 0x00: msi, address 00:15:58:31:de:bd ppb2 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 Intel 82801GB PCIE rev 0x02: apic 1 int 21 pci3 at ppb2 bus 3 wpi0 at pci3 dev 0 function 0 Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG rev
Re: cvsync, rsync
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:49:56PM +0300, Mihai Popescu wrote: | Since I mentioned the likelihood of a non-recoverable disk error, | here's a terrific paper that should make everbody sleep very poorly: | | An Analysis of Data Corruption in the Storage Stack | http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~bianca/papers/fast08.pdf | | They claim the paper is based on 1.53 million disk drives. | | It is interesting they were able to access such a number. One of the authors works for Network Appliance. They are in the business of selling (and replacing) disks. Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- [++-]+++.+++[---].+++[+ +++-].++[-]+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: Way too many crashes with recent snapshots (non-HTML-version)
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:44:20PM +0200, Stefan Wollny wrote: Send a second time as this webmail-programm changed to HTML again... this mail should be better to read. Hi there, I have this ancient IBM/lenovo T60 with me while working off-site. This machine used to be a reliable workhorse until recently. Since roughly around the time of the ABI changes to 64-bit time I get annoyed by 2~3 crashes per day. I usually run OpenBSD's latest snapshots on it and I can confirm that those snapshots are rock-solid. So here I am wondering if my I have to say farewell to my favorite worktool or if I missed some changes in the settings. E.g. one important Linux-binary (SoftMaker Office 2012) does not start up any more (and on startup the system complains that 'kern.emul.linux=1' is invalid). pirofti@ will probably chime in, but there are issues with linux compat and newer time_t, these issues are known. I expect he's working on it ?
Re: Way too many crashes with recent snapshots (non-HTML-version)
Hi Philip, thank you for taking the time to reply: Of course, you are 100% right - without proper crash reports such complaints are rather useless. But I cannot describe a reproduceabel situation that leads to a crash. The only common circumstance is that the crashes occured when running X. Until snapshot #60 I had no issues running fluxbox. Since #61 only kde starts up. But with both window-managers the system could hang within seconds or after hours after moving the cursor. I add Xorg.0.log.old at the end. I will do my homework on the weekend and read how to make proper bug reports - until now it was not necessary as any issues were solved quickly. If you are interested in any particular details/logs or can provide a shorthand starting point to learn don't hesitate to let me know ;-) BTW: For the moment libreoffice is a sufficient replacement. All the best, STEFAN Gesendet: Freitag, 20. September 2013 um 00:01 Uhr Von: Philip Guenther guent...@gmail.com An: Stefan Wollny stefan.wol...@web.de Cc: misc@openbsd.org misc@openbsd.org Betreff: Re: Way too many crashes with recent snapshots (non-HTML-version) On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Stefan Wollny stefan.wol...@web.de wrote: I have this ancient IBM/lenovo T60 with me while working off-site. This machine used to be a reliable workhorse until recently. Since roughly around the time of the ABI changes to 64-bit time I get annoyed by 2~3 crashes per day. I usually run OpenBSD's latest snapshots on it and I can confirm that those snapshots are rock-solid. It's hard to fix crashes that aren't reported, or that are reported without any details. panic message? kernel trace back? reliable reproduction procedure? So here I am wondering if my I have to say farewell to my favorite worktool or if I missed some changes in the settings. E.g. one important Linux-binary (SoftMaker Office 2012) does not start up any more (and on startup the system complains that 'kern.emul.linux=1' is invalid). As espie@ noted, compat_linux needs further fixes to get it working again after the time_t bump. If linux compat is a must have then you'll need to run 5.4-release for now. Philip Guenther [ 2491.173] (--) checkDevMem: using aperture driver /dev/xf86 [ 2491.205] (--) Using wscons driver on /dev/ttyC4 in pcvt compatibility mode (version 3.32) [ 2491.265] X.Org X Server 1.14.2 Release Date: 2013-06-25 [ 2491.265] X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0 [ 2491.265] Build Operating System: OpenBSD 5.4 i386 [ 2491.266] Current Operating System: OpenBSD majestix.my.domain 5.4 GENERIC.MP#61 i386 [ 2491.266] Build Date: 14 September 2013 11:46:49AM [ 2491.267] [ 2491.267] Current version of pixman: 0.30.2 [ 2491.267]Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org to make sure that you have the latest version. [ 2491.267] Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. [ 2491.267] (==) Log file: /var/log/Xorg.0.log, Time: Thu Sep 19 22:22:25 2013 [ 2491.273] (==) Using system config directory /usr/X11R6/share/X11/xorg.conf.d [ 2491.277] (==) No Layout section. Using the first Screen section. [ 2491.277] (==) No screen section available. Using defaults. [ 2491.277] (**) |--Screen Default Screen Section (0) [ 2491.278] (**) | |--Monitor default monitor [ 2491.280] (==) No monitor specified for screen Default Screen Section. Using a default monitor configuration. [ 2491.280] (==) Disabling SIGIO handlers for input devices [ 2491.280] (==) Automatically adding devices [ 2491.280] (==) Automatically enabling devices [ 2491.280] (==) Not automatically adding GPU devices [ 2491.298] (==) FontPath set to: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/, /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/, /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/OTF/, /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/, /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/, /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/ [ 2491.298] (==) ModulePath set to /usr/X11R6/lib/modules [ 2491.298] (II) The server relies on wscons to provide the list of input devices. If no devices become available, reconfigure wscons or disable AutoAddDevices. [ 2491.298] (II) Loader magic: 0x3c024100 [ 2491.298] (II) Module ABI versions: [ 2491.298]X.Org ANSI C Emulation: 0.4 [ 2491.298]X.Org Video Driver: 14.1 [ 2491.298]X.Org XInput driver : 19.1 [ 2491.298]X.Org Server Extension : 7.0 [ 2491.299] (--) PCI:*(0:1:0:0) 1002:7149:17aa:2005 rev 0, Mem @ 0xd800/134217728, 0xee10/65536, I/O @ 0x2000/256 [ 2491.301] Initializing built-in extension Generic Event Extension [ 2491.301] Initializing built-in extension SHAPE [ 2491.301] Initializing built-in extension MIT-SHM [ 2491.301] Initializing built-in extension XInputExtension [ 2491.301] Initializing built-in extension XTEST [ 2491.301] Initializing
Re: cvsync, rsync
Mihai Popescu mih...@gmail.com wrote: An Analysis of Data Corruption in the Storage Stack http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~bianca/papers/fast08.pdf They claim the paper is based on 1.53 million disk drives. It is interesting they were able to access such a number. The paper is based on NetApp data. -- Christian naddy Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Re: Way too many crashes with recent snapshots (non-HTML-version)
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Stefan Wollny stefan.wol...@web.de wrote: I have this ancient IBM/lenovo T60 with me while working off-site. This machine used to be a reliable workhorse until recently. Since roughly around the time of the ABI changes to 64-bit time I get annoyed by 2~3 crashes per day. I usually run OpenBSD's latest snapshots on it and I can confirm that those snapshots are rock-solid. It's hard to fix crashes that aren't reported, or that are reported without any details. panic message? kernel trace back? reliable reproduction procedure? So here I am wondering if my I have to say farewell to my favorite worktool or if I missed some changes in the settings. E.g. one important Linux-binary (SoftMaker Office 2012) does not start up any more (and on startup the system complains that 'kern.emul.linux=1' is invalid). As espie@ noted, compat_linux needs further fixes to get it working again after the time_t bump. If linux compat is a must have then you'll need to run 5.4-release for now. Philip Guenther
Re: Verified OS concerns
josef.win...@email.de writes: Right, a varified full flaged OS is still future. But there is nevertheless progress and affort. Thanks for the pointeres, but anytime this comes up, an old AI witticism turns up at the back of my head, If our mind were so simple we could actually understand it fully, we almost certainly couldn't be bothered to try (original source lost or not within reach of my puny attempts at web search). The point is, formal verification is *hard*, and any flaws in your formal verification procedure will put you back at essentially square one, every time. Which will happen a lot when exposed to systems that have developed in response to real-world needs and formal standards specifications that at least in some cases more likely than not were in any way verified even to be internally consistent. My money is still on the OpenBSD-style source code audits (aka 'reading the code like the devil reads the bible' for real-world results. - P -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: Verified OS concerns
pe...@bsdly.net (Peter N. M. Hansteen) writes: systems that have developed in response to real-world needs and formal standards specifications that at least in some cases more likely than not were in any way verified even to be internally consistent. missing a 'never' in there. clearer? -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: cvs up
I suspect one of the crashes has corrupted the filesystem holding your cvs checkouts. I'd suggest newfs, restoring any important data on that partition from backups, and re-fetching replaceable data (cvs checkouts etc) from another source. On 2013-09-19, Stefan Wollny stefan.wol...@web.de wrote: Hi there, working off-site for a few days I took my ancient IBM/lenovo T60 (i386 - bsd.mp) with me. Two days ago I upgraded to the latest snapshot, #61 as of September, 17th, from openbsd.cs.fau.de. (dmesg at the end) Tonight I updated /usr/src via cvs. It appeared to me that a whole copy of /usr was installed to /usr/gnu/usr.bin/gcc/ginclude.Example:$ ls -alh /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/gcc/ginclude/ports/archivers/bzip2/ total 32 drwxr-xr-x 6 root wsrc 512B Sep 19 22:30 . drwxr-xr-x 70 root wsrc 1.5K Sep 19 22:30 .. drwxr-xr-x 2 root wsrc 512B Sep 19 22:30 CVS -rw-r--r-- 1 root wsrc 905B Apr 4 18:03 Makefile -rw-r--r-- 1 root wsrc 110B Apr 4 18:03 distinfo drwxr-xr-x 3 root wsrc 512B Sep 19 22:30 files drwxr-xr-x 3 root wsrc 512B Sep 19 22:30 patches drwxr-xr-x 3 root wsrc 512B Sep 19 22:30 pkg $ ls -alh /usr/ports/archivers/bzip2 total 28 drwxr-xr-x 5 root wheel 512B Sep 17 19:57 . drwxr-xr-x 60 root wheel 1.5K Sep 17 19:57 .. drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512B Sep 17 19:57 CVS -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 905B Apr 4 18:03 Makefile -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 110B Apr 4 18:03 distinfo drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 512B Aug 19 22:58 patches drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 512B Aug 19 22:58 pkg Just to be shure: Is this update of /usr correct? I have the impression that something went wrong as I got e.g.U gnu/usr.bin/gcc/ginclude/www/papers/strlcpy-paper.pdf U gnu/usr.bin/gcc/ginclude/www/papers/strlcpy-paper.ps U gnu/usr.bin/gcc/ginclude/www/papers/strlcpy-slides.pdf U gnu/usr.bin/gcc/ginclude/www/papers/strlcpy-slides.ps Beside this: In the last weeks the laptop crashes at least 2~3 times/day with the latest snapshots but I make it a thread of its own. Do you need any further input? Cheers,STEFAN --- OpenBSD 5.4-current (GENERIC.MP) #61: Sat Sep 14 14:04:00 MDT 2013 t...@i386.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC.MP cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU T2400 @ 1.83GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 1.83 GHz cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,SSE3,MWAIT,VMX,EST,TM2,xTPR,PDCM,PERF real mem = 3219517440 (3070MB) avail mem = 3155156992 (3008MB) mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 08/27/09, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfd6b0, SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xe0010 (68 entries) bios0: vendor LENOVO version 79ETE5WW (2.25 ) date 08/27/2009 bios0: LENOVO 200855G acpi0 at bios0: rev 2 acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5 acpi0: tables DSDT FACP SSDT ECDT TCPA APIC MCFG HPET BOOT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT acpi0: wakeup devices LID_(S3) SLPB(S3) LURT(S3) DURT(S3) EXP0(S4) EXP1(S4) EXP2(S4) EXP3(S4) PCI1(S4) USB0(S3) USB1(S3) USB2(S3) USB7(S3) HDEF(S4) acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits acpiec0 at acpi0 acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: apic clock running at 166MHz cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor) cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU T2400 @ 1.83GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 1.83 GHz cpu1: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,SSE3,MWAIT,VMX,EST,TM2,xTPR,PDCM,PERF ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 1 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins ioapic0: misconfigured as apic 2, remapped to apid 1 acpimcfg0 at acpi0 addr 0xf000, bus 0-63 acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0) acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus 1 (AGP_) acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus 2 (EXP0) acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus 3 (EXP1) acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus 4 (EXP2) acpiprt5 at acpi0: bus 12 (EXP3) acpiprt6 at acpi0: bus 21 (PCI1) acpicpu0 at acpi0: C3, C2, C1, PSS acpicpu1 at acpi0: C3, C2, C1, PSS acpipwrres0 at acpi0: PUBS acpitz0 at acpi0: critical temperature is 127 degC acpitz1 at acpi0: critical temperature is 99 degC acpibtn0 at acpi0: LID_ acpibtn1 at acpi0: SLPB acpibat0 at acpi0: BAT0 not present acpibat1 at acpi0: BAT1 not present acpiac0 at acpi0: AC unit online acpithinkpad0 at acpi0 acpidock0 at acpi0: GDCK not docked (0) bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xfe00 0xd/0x1000 0xd1000/0x1000 0xdc000/0x4000! 0xe/0x1! cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 1829 MHz: speeds: 1833, 1333, 1000 MHz pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios) pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel 82945GM Host rev 0x03 ppb0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 Intel 82945GM PCIE rev 0x03: apic 1 int 16 pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 radeondrm0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 ATI Radeon Mobility X1300 M52-64 rev 0x00: apic 1 int 16 drm0 at radeondrm0 azalia0 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 Intel 82801GB HD Audio rev 0x02: msi azalia0: codecs: Analog Devices AD1981HD,
Re: OpenZFS announcement
There is a fuse implmentation, however as mentioned, it is rather slow. It's main targets were reading ZFS volumes on Linux and OSX. It is also rather outdated in favor of the native Linux port (abandoning OSX.) A better starting point would be the FreeBSD port, but it will still remain CDDL licensed. HAMMER would be a more interesting project. On Wed, Sep 18, 2013, at 01:59 PM, Paolo Aglialoro wrote: Considering that OpenBSD is implementing fuse, cannot then ZFS be included just like package/port (using fuse infrastructure as in linux) to circumvent licence issues? Il giorno 18/set/2013 16:09, Kenneth Westerback kwesterb...@gmail.com ha scritto: http://open-zfs.org/wiki/About_OpenZFS Under 'Other' at the bottom: ZFS source code is copyright various contributors, and available under the CDDL open-source license. The second paragraph is amusing: OpenZFS is not associated with openzfs.org. Don't forget the dash in our URS: open-zfs.org Ken On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 2:37 AM, patric conant mirage.comput...@gmail.comwrote: http://www.open-zfs.org/wiki/Announcement It supposed to be open-er. I didn't find a license, thought it might be of mild interest.
multiple softraid-crypto filesystems
I have an amd64 laptop (Thinkpad T60) whose /, /var, and /usr are standard FFS partitions (dksklabel fstype 4.2BSD), while /home is encrypted via softraid crypto: on boot I login as root, and run a perl script which executes (with lots of error checking optional logging) # sd0 is the built-in disk; sd0j has disklabel fstype RAID bioctl -c C -r 10 -l /dev/sd0j softraid0 mount -o softdep,noatime /dev/sd1a /home This works nicely. Now I want to set up a similarly-encrypted external USB backup disk which I can access concurrently with my encrypted /home. Since this is to be a distinct physical disk, a distinct filesystem, and (presumably) a distinct set of encryption parameters, I presume I need to use a different softraid device from softraid0 (which is handling /home): # assume sd2 is the external disk, and sd2j has filesystem type RAID bioctl -c C -r 10 -l /dev/sd2j softraid1 mount -o softdep,noatime /dev/sd3a /mnt Unfortunately, this doesn't work: as of either 5.3-release or 5.1-stable (GENERIC.MP in all cases), bioctl gives the error message # bioctl -c C -r 10 -l /dev/sd2j softraid1 bioctl: Can't locate softraid1 device via /dev/bio Indeed, even a status-check on softraid1 fails: # bioctl softraid1 bioctl: Can't locate softraid1 device via /dev/bio and a quick grep through dmesg reveals only one softraid device (softraid0) mentioned. Question: What's the right way to have multiple independent softraid crypto filesystems? Question: Which Fine Manual should I have read to learn this? I can't find any mention of this situation in softraid(4) or bioctl(8). ciao, -- -- Jonathan Thornburg [remove -animal to reply] jth...@astro.indiana-zebra.edu Dept of Astronomy IUCSS, Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana, USA There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. -- George Orwell, 1984
Re: multiple softraid-crypto filesystems
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 21:41, Jonathan Thornburg wrote: # bioctl softraid1 bioctl: Can't locate softraid1 device via /dev/bio and a quick grep through dmesg reveals only one softraid device (softraid0) mentioned. Question: What's the right way to have multiple independent softraid crypto filesystems? There is only one softraid, softraid0. A SCSI controller can have multiple disks attached to it, so keep using softraid0. This isn't documented per se, but discoverable by observing that softraid0 is attached even when no softraid disks are. When you attach the disks, only sd? devices appear.
