Re: Blind OpenBSD users
On Fri, 17 May 2019 at 14:14:25 -0500, Tim Chase wrote: > (sorry, out of thread; copying from the marc.info post so > References/In-Reply-To aren't set) > > > I am looking to understand / enhance the OpenBSD experience for > > blind users. > > While not blind, I occasionally attempt to do some screenless testing > with accessibility-tech on OpenBSD, FreeBSD, and Linux. I also hang > out in the blinux mailing list for blind Linux users, so am > interested in making the BSDs more accessible. > > > Do we have any blind users reading misc that can offer any insight > > into their usecases / pain points / work flows / wants? > > I am sure OpenBSD is lacking on this front, so use cases in *nix > > would also be helpful. > > From some recent experiences: > > - using a serial port or SSH has proven the best/most-reliable. For > some the machine would be attached to an external serial-driven > synth or Braille device. For others, it's a serial program on > another machine that is accessible, or accessing via SSH from that > other machine. However, as powerful as the CLI is, it doesn't grant > access to GUI tools like a real browser. > > - yasr isn't available as a package (it's my go-to console > screen-reader) but can be installed from source. It does have a > sample config file but needs a bunch of work to get set up, > including getting speech-dispatcher to listen via an inet socket > rather than a unix socket, then pointing yasr at speech-dispatcher, > and making sure that it is configured properly. Also, > speech-dispatcher times out after 5-seconds with no connection, so > you have to know to start yasr within that window of time. > > - attempting to `pip install fenrir-screenreader` fails because it > uses some linux-specific headers > > Getting Orca set up is a bit of a bear. Doable, but it already > assumes you have access to the system. But roughly involves > installing Gnome (plus configuring GDM which is mostly following the > docs, but it's certainly not out-of-the-box easy), Orca, eflite, > etc. While GDM comes up with options to turn on text-to-speech, you > have to know the Alt+Super+S shortcut to enable, and you have to know > how to *use* Orca to navigate it. All of that All of that is pretty > difficult to do if you're blind and on your own. > > Additionally, latency in Orca is pretty horrible on my test machine > here, even under light usage (in this context, running Gnome and the > Orca settings panel; no extra programs or non-default OBSD services > running). It's not a powerhouse machine (3GB of RAM, dual-core 2GHZ) > but it's also not unreasonable specs for an older machine. > > So in the end, using ssh/serial from a remote machine or using yasr + > speech-dispatcher locally was the most usable solution I've been able > to get working. It would be nice to get Orca working usably so I > could test with a GUI browser. > > As for things that could be improved, a couple ideas: > > - adding yasr to the package repos > > - perhaps some meta-package or a tutorial on getting > speech-dispatcher + yasr + flite/festival/espeak/whatever working > together > > - tweak Gnome or whatever launches Orca so that it comes up with a > tutorial mode and/or settings on first-run. > > I'd be glad to test other configurations if needed. This is great info! Thank you! I have added a WIP port for yasr here: https://github.com/jasperla/openbsd-wip/tree/master/sysutils/yasr Using this + speech-dispatcher + espeak + edbrowse (recently imported) I can browse sites pretty well with no visual feedback! I will look into the other projects you mentioned! Thanks again! > > -tkc > (@gumnos) > > -- PGP: 0x1F81112D62A9ADCE / 3586 3350 BFEA C101 DB1A 4AF0 1F81 112D 62A9 ADCE
Re: Blind OpenBSD users
(sorry, out of thread; copying from the marc.info post so References/In-Reply-To aren't set) > I am looking to understand / enhance the OpenBSD experience for > blind users. While not blind, I occasionally attempt to do some screenless testing with accessibility-tech on OpenBSD, FreeBSD, and Linux. I also hang out in the blinux mailing list for blind Linux users, so am interested in making the BSDs more accessible. > Do we have any blind users reading misc that can offer any insight > into their usecases / pain points / work flows / wants? > I am sure OpenBSD is lacking on this front, so use cases in *nix > would also be helpful. >From some recent experiences: - using a serial port or SSH has proven the best/most-reliable. For some the machine would be attached to an external serial-driven synth or Braille device. For others, it's a serial program on another machine that is accessible, or accessing via SSH from that other machine. However, as powerful as the CLI is, it doesn't grant access to GUI tools like a real browser. - yasr isn't available as a package (it's my go-to console screen-reader) but can be installed from source. It does have a sample config file but needs a bunch of work to get set up, including getting speech-dispatcher to listen via an inet socket rather than a unix socket, then pointing yasr at speech-dispatcher, and making sure that it is configured properly. Also, speech-dispatcher times out after 5-seconds with no connection, so you have to know to start yasr within that window of time. - attempting to `pip install fenrir-screenreader` fails because it uses some linux-specific headers Getting Orca set up is a bit of a bear. Doable, but it already assumes you have access to the system. But roughly involves installing Gnome (plus configuring GDM which is mostly following the docs, but it's certainly not out-of-the-box easy), Orca, eflite, etc. While GDM comes up with options to turn on text-to-speech, you have to know the Alt+Super+S shortcut to enable, and you have to know how to *use* Orca to navigate it. All of that All of that is pretty difficult to do if you're blind and on your own. Additionally, latency in Orca is pretty horrible on my test machine here, even under light usage (in this context, running Gnome and the Orca settings panel; no extra programs or non-default OBSD services running). It's not a powerhouse machine (3GB of RAM, dual-core 2GHZ) but it's also not unreasonable specs for an older machine. So in the end, using ssh/serial from a remote machine or using yasr + speech-dispatcher locally was the most usable solution I've been able to get working. It would be nice to get Orca working usably so I could test with a GUI browser. As for things that could be improved, a couple ideas: - adding yasr to the package repos - perhaps some meta-package or a tutorial on getting speech-dispatcher + yasr + flite/festival/espeak/whatever working together - tweak Gnome or whatever launches Orca so that it comes up with a tutorial mode and/or settings on first-run. I'd be glad to test other configurations if needed. -tkc (@gumnos)
Re: Blind OpenBSD users
On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 11:02:47AM +0200, Marc Espie wrote: As far as I know, the only software we have for blind people (and not just people with very poor eye sight) is misc/brltty. The above might be true only for console applications. GNOME has support both for low vision users and blind users (which should install Orca for reading the screen aloud or in Braille.) More at https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html.en
Re: Blind OpenBSD users
On 2019-05-14, Marc Espie wrote: > As far as I know, the only software we have for blind people > (and not just people with very poor eye sight) > is misc/brltty. > > misc/screen also has support in the form of the shm flavor, > which hooks to misc/brltty > > The main issue for this kind of thing is of course testing. > > This was done over 10 years ago. I have zero idea if this > still works, or if there are better tools these days. On Linux brltty works with the console driver to read the standard system console, on OpenBSD we don't have that support so brltty is only usable with the version of screen with the shared-memory patches (shm flavour). If I build brltty with X support I can see that it does still work with the version of screen in the ports tree. (I wasn't able to get it to work with updated screen however; it's probably worth adding a new screen-shm port so that we can update the main screen port without affecting this).
Re: Blind OpenBSD users
aa...@bolddaemon.com (Aaron Bieber), 2019.05.10 (Fri) 16:05 (CEST): > I am looking to understand / enhance the OpenBSD experience for blind > users. :flan_thumbsup: > Do we have any blind users reading misc that can offer any insight > into their usecases / pain points / work flows / wants? I vaguely remembered the thread and even found it, somewhat dated (2013-07-07): https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc=137316509908904 and parts of (search for "oyen"): https://marc.info/?t=13729967261 and finally: https://marc.info/?w=2=1=eric+oyen=a Marcus
Re: Blind OpenBSD users
On 2019-05-14, Marc Espie wrote: > We also have (had?) a speech synthesis system in > audio/festival We deleted that. Somebody would need to create a new port for a more recent release. > I don't think we have any other speech synthesis open source > software in the ports tree. There's audio/espeak, but I can't comment on it. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Re: Blind OpenBSD users
On 5/14/19 5:02 AM, Marc Espie wrote: As far as I know, the only software we have for blind people (and not just people with very poor eye sight) is misc/brltty. misc/screen also has support in the form of the shm flavor, which hooks to misc/brltty The main issue for this kind of thing is of course testing. This was done over 10 years ago. I have zero idea if this still works, or if there are better tools these days. We also have (had?) a speech synthesis system in audio/festival Unfortunately, this is research code that predates the C++ standard by years, and thus is thoroughly rotten through. I don't think we have any other speech synthesis open source software in the ports tree. There is flite which works but isn't great. --STeve Andre'
Re: Blind OpenBSD users
As far as I know, the only software we have for blind people (and not just people with very poor eye sight) is misc/brltty. misc/screen also has support in the form of the shm flavor, which hooks to misc/brltty The main issue for this kind of thing is of course testing. This was done over 10 years ago. I have zero idea if this still works, or if there are better tools these days. We also have (had?) a speech synthesis system in audio/festival Unfortunately, this is research code that predates the C++ standard by years, and thus is thoroughly rotten through. I don't think we have any other speech synthesis open source software in the ports tree.
Re: Blind OpenBSD users
On 05/13/19 08:49, Aaron Bieber wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2019 at 11:24:57 +0300, Dumitru Moldovan wrote: On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 08:05:08AM -0600, Aaron Bieber wrote: Hi misc@! I am looking to understand / enhance the OpenBSD experience for blind users. Do we have any blind users reading misc that can offer any insight into their usecases / pain points / work flows / wants? I am sure OpenBSD is lacking on this front, so use cases in *nix would also be helpful. [...] Hope that helps! Not a blind user here... Also, was hoping someone more knowledgeable would step in to answer. As far as I can tell, there is no a11y support in OpenBSD's native console, so it seems blind users can only use graphical applications under OpenBSD. Thanks for the info! I am not blind but until recent surgery, I was severely visually handicaped and I offer one piece of advice from my experience: Ensure that every piece of text can be increased in size (or the underlying fonts increased). It was very frustrating to have to reach for my magnifying glasses when informative/error messages came up much smaller that my default setting. N.
Re: Blind OpenBSD users
On Mon, 13 May 2019 at 11:24:57 +0300, Dumitru Moldovan wrote: > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 08:05:08AM -0600, Aaron Bieber wrote: > > Hi misc@! > > > > I am looking to understand / enhance the OpenBSD experience for blind users. > > > > Do we have any blind users reading misc that can offer any insight into > > their > > usecases / pain points / work flows / wants? I am sure OpenBSD is lacking on > > this front, so use cases in *nix would also be helpful. > > I've worked for the GNOME project as a translator some years ago. I > know from the strings I've translated that they worked hard on a11y > (accessibility). I don't use GNOME anymore (except through its most > basic libs, such as GTK+), but I think it's usable under OpenBSD. > > A couple of links to get you going: > * https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html.en > * https://wiki.gnome.org/Accessibility > > KDE has a similar a11y initiative, but it seems less entrenched than > GNOME's one: https://userbase.kde.org/System_Settings/Accessibility. > Even their tutorial suggests using the KDE apps under a GNOME desktop > when using a screen reader: > https://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Accessibility/Screen_Reader_Setup#Screen_Readers > > Another interesting link I've found, touching on both GNOME and KDE, > but also listing alternatives to GNOME's Orca screen reader: > https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Accessibility/. > > Hope that helps! Not a blind user here... Also, was hoping someone > more knowledgeable would step in to answer. As far as I can tell, > there is no a11y support in OpenBSD's native console, so it seems blind > users can only use graphical applications under OpenBSD. Thanks for the info! > -- PGP: 0x1F81112D62A9ADCE / 3586 3350 BFEA C101 DB1A 4AF0 1F81 112D 62A9 ADCE
Re: Blind OpenBSD users
On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 08:05:08AM -0600, Aaron Bieber wrote: Hi misc@! I am looking to understand / enhance the OpenBSD experience for blind users. Do we have any blind users reading misc that can offer any insight into their usecases / pain points / work flows / wants? I am sure OpenBSD is lacking on this front, so use cases in *nix would also be helpful. I've worked for the GNOME project as a translator some years ago. I know from the strings I've translated that they worked hard on a11y (accessibility). I don't use GNOME anymore (except through its most basic libs, such as GTK+), but I think it's usable under OpenBSD. A couple of links to get you going: * https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html.en * https://wiki.gnome.org/Accessibility KDE has a similar a11y initiative, but it seems less entrenched than GNOME's one: https://userbase.kde.org/System_Settings/Accessibility. Even their tutorial suggests using the KDE apps under a GNOME desktop when using a screen reader: https://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Accessibility/Screen_Reader_Setup#Screen_Readers Another interesting link I've found, touching on both GNOME and KDE, but also listing alternatives to GNOME's Orca screen reader: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Accessibility/. Hope that helps! Not a blind user here... Also, was hoping someone more knowledgeable would step in to answer. As far as I can tell, there is no a11y support in OpenBSD's native console, so it seems blind users can only use graphical applications under OpenBSD.
Blind OpenBSD users
Hi misc@! I am looking to understand / enhance the OpenBSD experience for blind users. Do we have any blind users reading misc that can offer any insight into their usecases / pain points / work flows / wants? I am sure OpenBSD is lacking on this front, so use cases in *nix would also be helpful. Cheers, Aaron -- PGP: 0x1F81112D62A9ADCE / 3586 3350 BFEA C101 DB1A 4AF0 1F81 112D 62A9 ADCE
Re: "update-resolv-conf" script: Is there an equivalent for OpenBSD users?
There is no resolvconf in base I'm aware of. I'm guessing you could script changes to /etc/resolv.conf.tail but not sure if it can handle dynamic changes or not. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 29, 2016, at 2:04 PM, Adam Smith <ken...@dcemail.com> wrote: > > When I am using a Linux distro and wish to connect to a VPN server in a foreign country, first I will ensure that update-resolv-conf.sh is in /etc/openvpn > > The update-resolv-conf script can be downloaded from: https://github.com/masterkorp/openvpn-update-resolv-conf > > Next I will append to my *.ovpn file the following lines: > > script-security 2 > up /etc/openvpn/update-resolv-conf.sh > down /etc/openvpn/update-resolv-conf.sh > > > > The contents of my *.ovpn file is as follows: > -- > client > dev tun > proto tcp > remote 66.77.88.99 443 > resolv-retry infinite > nobind > persist-key > persist-tun > remote-cert-tls server > cipher AES-256-CBC > comp-lzo no > route-delay 5 > verb 3 > ca "ca.crt" > cert "user.crt" > key "user.key" > tls-auth "ta.key" 1 > script-security 2 > up /etc/openvpn/update-resolv-conf > down /etc/openvpn/update-resolv-conf > -- > > Questions: > > 1. Is there an equivalent script for OpenBSD users of OpenVPN? > > 2. Is such a script necessary for users of OpenVPN on OpenBSD? > > Thanks in advance for your feedback and clarifications. > > Adam > http://www.DCpages.com
"update-resolv-conf" script: Is there an equivalent for OpenBSD users?
When I am using a Linux distro and wish to connect to a VPN server in a foreign country, first I will ensure that update-resolv-conf.sh is in /etc/openvpn The update-resolv-conf script can be downloaded from: https://github.com/masterkorp/openvpn-update-resolv-conf Next I will append to my *.ovpn file the following lines: script-security 2 up /etc/openvpn/update-resolv-conf.sh down /etc/openvpn/update-resolv-conf.sh The contents of my *.ovpn file is as follows: -- client dev tun proto tcp remote 66.77.88.99 443 resolv-retry infinite nobind persist-key persist-tun remote-cert-tls server cipher AES-256-CBC comp-lzo no route-delay 5 verb 3 ca "ca.crt" cert "user.crt" key "user.key" tls-auth "ta.key" 1 script-security 2 up /etc/openvpn/update-resolv-conf down /etc/openvpn/update-resolv-conf -- Questions: 1. Is there an equivalent script for OpenBSD users of OpenVPN? 2. Is such a script necessary for users of OpenVPN on OpenBSD? Thanks in advance for your feedback and clarifications. Adam http://www.DCpages.com
Re: OpenBSD users web page updates
ping (http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.openbsd.misc/211666) On 2014-03-31 Mon 14:59 PM |, Brad Smith wrote: On 31/03/14 1:34 PM, Craig R. Skinner wrote: A few updates for the page: http://www.OpenBSD.org/users.html#isp * Fix broken Swebase link. * Add Devio.us * Add Grex * Add Polar Home It looks like Reverse.Net should be removed. Their website makes it pretty clear they don't run OpenBSD anymore. IMO the same thing should be done for any other entries where it is known or can be determined that a particular listed user isn't using OpenBSD anymore.
OpenBSD users web page updates
A few updates for the page: http://www.OpenBSD.org/users.html#isp * Fix broken Swebase link. * Add Devio.us * Add Grex * Add Polar Home Index: www/users.html === RCS file: /cvs/www/users.html,v retrieving revision 1.132 diff -u -p -r1.132 users.html --- www/users.html 11 Mar 2014 07:02:08 - 1.132 +++ www/users.html 31 Mar 2014 17:25:43 - @@ -498,6 +498,13 @@ Server, Primary and Secondary DNS, and R OpenBSD/sparc and our shell server and several co-located servers are running OpenBSD/i386.p +lia href=http://www.Devio.us;Devio.us/abr +SSH shell account hoster. Users have access to all standard software - +compilers, IRC clients, mail clients, screen, MySQL and so forth. +Users can host a secure personal website and +remotely access their mail securely. +p + lia href=http://www.reverse.net/;Reverse.Net (former Elixor Networks)/abr Reverse.Net uses OpenBSD on AMD hardware to provide shell accounts, website hosting, and domain name hosting. @@ -520,6 +527,13 @@ Globalwire Communications is using Open Service (SMS) gateway and database servers. p +lia href=http://www.grex.org/;Grex/abr +A public access Unix and computer conferencing system, with email, +shell accounts and more. Based in Michigan, USA since 1991, supported by users, +and is run entirely by volunteers on +a href=http://www.grex.org/staff/system.xhtml;OpenBSD/a. +p + lia href=http://www.hobbiton.org/;Hobbiton.org/abr This ISP used OpenBSD to run their free shell server for many years (it was shut down in November, 2001 due to rising costs of running @@ -583,6 +597,13 @@ Phoenix Communications is an ISP in Dall for firewalls and other infrastructure. p +lia href=http://www.polarhome.com/;Polar Home/abr +A Swedish shell account provider since 1999 of many operating systems, +including a href=http://openbsd.polarhome.com/;OpenBSD/a. +User services include SSH, CVS, FTP, web, email, SQL, IRC, and others. +Seven on/offline payment methods. +p + lia href=http://www.poppe.com;Poppe Tyson Europe/a is using OpenBSD as a primary DNS, mailserver for 100+ mailboxes, and as their Website Development server for over 50 @@ -609,7 +630,7 @@ and also provides an anonymous CVS repos (CVSROOT=anon...@openbsd.groupbsd.org:/cvs), all thanks to 47GB of disk space and a dedicated T1 connection.p -lia href=http://start.swebase.com/?sida=maskiner;Swebase Network/abr +lia href=http://www.swebase.com/;Swebase Network/abr This ISP in Sweden uses OpenBSD for Web, DNS and mail servers. p
Re: OpenBSD users web page updates
On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:34:39 +0100 skin...@britvault.co.uk (Craig R. Skinner) wrote: Reverse.Net uses OpenBSD on AMD hardware to provide shell accounts, website hosting, and domain name hosting. results to -- Access Denied: Because of high incidents of credit card fraud, we do not accept clients from your Internet Service Provider. -- Can you add, please Approved friends only. No strangers allowed. Ever. Thanks Chi
Re: OpenBSD users web page updates
On 31 Mar 2014 at 18:13, Chi wrote: On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:34:39 +0100 skin...@britvault.co.uk (Craig R. Skinner) wrote: Reverse.Net uses OpenBSD on AMD hardware to provide shell accounts, website hosting, and domain name hosting. results to Access Denied: Because of high incidents of credit card fraud, we do not accept clients from your Internet Service Provider. Can you add, please Approved friends only. No strangers allowed. Ever. Thanks Chi I don't think that comment is warranted: I'm not a current customer and have no problem accessing the site, the order page, or the checkout process (though I did not complete it simply because I have no need of it) from att.net -- a major US provider (and not one of the most responsible one's either ;-) -Jacob.
Re: OpenBSD users web page updates
On 31/03/14 1:34 PM, Craig R. Skinner wrote: A few updates for the page: http://www.OpenBSD.org/users.html#isp * Fix broken Swebase link. * Add Devio.us * Add Grex * Add Polar Home It looks like Reverse.Net should be removed. Their website makes it pretty clear they don't run OpenBSD anymore. IMO the same thing should be done for any other entries where it is known or can be determined that a particular listed user isn't using OpenBSD anymore. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
Hi I am new to OpenBSD. In fact, I am a total newbie here. After reading many posts on this list, I formed the impression that all or most OpenBSD users are high-end IT professionals. I was wondering: are there OpenBSD users who are not so advanced in terms of IT expertise? That is, who are simple computer *users*, not IT professionals? I need to know this because I am starting feeling that, as an average computer user, I might be out of place here. I was attracted to OpenBSD by its security-by-default philosophy. Admittedly, I don't know much about security and I would not be able to set the proper security settings on my own, so I have decided to adopt OpenBSD and use it for simple day-to-day tasks, as a desktop OS (as I would any popular Linux distribution). Does this choice of mine, and its underlying reasoning, make sense? Are there any significant drawbacks to my adoption of OpenBSD (such as OpenBSD being too technical and too difficult, as compared, say, to Linux distros)? Please, give me some advice. If OpenBSD is not for me, I would rather know it sooner than later. Thanks Zaf
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013, at 09:37 AM, za...@gmx.com wrote: Hi I am new to OpenBSD. In fact, I am a total newbie here. After reading many posts on this list, I formed the impression that all or most OpenBSD users are high-end IT professionals. I was wondering: are there OpenBSD users who are not so advanced in terms of IT expertise? That is, who are simple computer *users*, not IT professionals? I have a lot of tech knowledge and have no trouble using a CLI, but I'm not an IT professional at least in the sense that I do not get a paycheck from working in IT. I need to know this because I am starting feeling that, as an average computer user, I might be out of place here. I was attracted to OpenBSD by its security-by-default philosophy. Admittedly, I don't know much about security and I would not be able to set the proper security settings on my own, so I have decided to adopt OpenBSD and use it for simple day-to-day tasks, as a desktop OS (as I would any popular Linux distribution). Does this choice of mine, and its underlying reasoning, make sense? Taken by itself, the reasoning is solid. It's the same reason I use OpenBSD for a system which is primarily a firewall/router. Are there any significant drawbacks to my adoption of OpenBSD (such as OpenBSD being too technical and too difficult, as compared, say, to Linux distros)? Please, give me some advice. If OpenBSD is not for me, I would rather know it sooner than later. Using OpenBSD as a desktop may be more painful for you than anticipated depending on your exact hardware configuration and exactly what you want to do. For example, thanks to HTML5, at least watching YouTube videos is now possible without having to resort to the computing equivalent of a game of Twister. (Before, one either did without YouTube or used youtube-dl and mplayer.) Some things may be more difficult than necessary if certain boneheads in charge assumed handing out a GNU/Linux binary the same way they hand out Windows and MacOS X binaries is enough (happens way too often). Due to secure by default there are a lot of things that would just work on a GNU/Linux system that will not work on OpenBSD without twiddling a sysctl or two, or running something as root that wouldn't require it on GNU/Linux. -- Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 OpenBSD is for the world. You have to ask yourself a few questions. Are you an open source advocate? Do you like the freedom to use an operating system the way you want to? Do you value stability and code correctness in an operating system? Is security paramount in your computing world? Do you value accurate documentation and a developer world who pride themselves on correctness? If the answer to these few question is yes, then OpenBSD is for you. If you like for someone to tell you, how to use an operating system and don't mind your OS crashing and security exploits, then you're in the wrong place. On 11/19/2013 10:37 AM, za...@gmx.com wrote: Hi I am new to OpenBSD. In fact, I am a total newbie here. After reading many posts on this list, I formed the impression that all or most OpenBSD users are high-end IT professionals. I was wondering: are there OpenBSD users who are not so advanced in terms of IT expertise? That is, who are simple computer *users*, not IT professionals? I need to know this because I am starting feeling that, as an average computer user, I might be out of place here. I was attracted to OpenBSD by its security-by-default philosophy. Admittedly, I don't know much about security and I would not be able to set the proper security settings on my own, so I have decided to adopt OpenBSD and use it for simple day-to-day tasks, as a desktop OS (as I would any popular Linux distribution). Does this choice of mine, and its underlying reasoning, make sense? Are there any significant drawbacks to my adoption of OpenBSD (such as OpenBSD being too technical and too difficult, as compared, say, to Linux distros)? Please, give me some advice. If OpenBSD is not for me, I would rather know it sooner than later. Thanks Zaf - -- Salim A. Shaw System Administrator OpenBSD / Free Software Advocate Need stability and security --- Try OpenBSD. BSD, ISC license all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSi4k7AAoJELO0Z/gjFO4kryMIAKifERLcoPeYtYo544vMC+c3 c18nb275QTLp7bMEl+iZqfuEcRsQ0V4cHfO+IsJ6Z1RAWwwEFu5GtYvWm01KOWk/ PIdh+A5e3N5aHsu0VWpgBLZeyJPH2x4QzQwOOITNk6ak5mLyVmPr8PkTDV083zNl /U+NKoOR7o/V+EMcvzrvxd3GQh5TB+pnFaEuqXU7JkqcHdLdS2NhTDy2W7zAp5LQ EL8GWpBKzN/dXD1vUhRq7c7fez5TZxoQ2tL3IvsMyds7P/BSl21B7tTwUIx/oo5O hjB9bF13OCy+WXYWDESKMOodMlREm7wUETMpdubCGVOpxD61L/TZCGWcgKGEXew= =K6m4 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 04:37:25PM +0100, za...@gmx.com wrote: Are there any significant drawbacks to my adoption of OpenBSD (such as OpenBSD being too technical and too difficult, as compared, say, to Linux distros)? One of the things that makes code good and secure is simplicity. That focus on keeping things simple is a way of life that make OpenBSD a good choice for people with a low bullshit tolerance. And I think it makes it more approachable, not less, than Linux and certain other not to be named GUI malware with a EULA parading around as an OS. OpenBSD makes a clear separation between the OS and most of the applications that run on it. That is not true of many other OS and OS-like systems. If you go to one of the mirrors and find the packages for your architecture (presumably you're using either 32 or 64 bit Intel) you can see which applications are available. A desktop means different things to different people. If all the apps you need and want are available then there is no reason why you won't be happy with OpenBSD. If they aren't, you'll have to do a little more thinking and research. You can build many apps on OpenBSD but there is a general problem of Linux people not realizing there is more to the world than Linux and not everything that builds on Linux will build without changes on OpenBSD. Please, give me some advice. If OpenBSD is not for me, I would rather know it sooner than later. I don't really think you can make a decision on paper unless your goals and requirements are pretty clear. If you have to have apps that only run on Linux or Windows that's an easy decision. Otherwise it's worth looking into your options and trying them out. If you overcommit you can always buy another box. /jl -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Powered by Lemote Fuloong against HTML e-mail X Loongson MIPS and OpenBSD and proprietary/ \http://www.mutt.org attachments / \ Code Blue or Go Home! Encrypted email preferred PGP Key 2048R/DA65BC04
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
On Nov 19 16:37:25, za...@gmx.com wrote: I am new to OpenBSD. In fact, I am a total newbie here. After reading many posts on this list, I formed the impression that all or most OpenBSD users are high-end IT professionals. I was wondering: are there OpenBSD users who are not so advanced in terms of IT expertise? That is, who are simple computer *users*, not IT professionals? My whole family, none of whom have anything to do with IT. I need to know this because I am starting feeling that, as an average computer user, I might be out of place here. I was attracted to OpenBSD by its security-by-default philosophy. Admittedly, I don't know much about security and I would not be able to set the proper security settings on my own, so I have decided to adopt OpenBSD and use it for simple day-to-day tasks, as a desktop OS (as I would any popular Linux distribution). Does this choice of mine, and its underlying reasoning, make sense? It depends, of course, on your requirements. If, for example, there is a certain application that you absolutely have to use, and it only comes as a Windows binary, or a Linux binary, then of coure you are out of luck. But you would have noticed that by now. For a simple day to day use, my wife uses the current/macppc I installed for her, with fvwm2 on top, without even knowing what OS it is (or what an OS is). Are there any significant drawbacks to my adoption of OpenBSD (such as OpenBSD being too technical and too difficult, as compared, say, to Linux distros)? After some time with OpenBSD, you might actually appreciate the _utmost_simplicity_ of OpenBSD, as compared to Linux or Windows.
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
OpenBSD has one of the fastest easiest installs of any operating system out there. The doc is clean and excellent. I've never heard less is more as an OpenBSD philosophy, but it is my philosophy and part of why I like OpenBSD. I'm a geologist who does programming in high level, dynamic languages as a hobby and part of my job. My sysadmin skills go as far as I need them to to administer an OpenBSD laptop. The community (this list, for example) will expect you to refer to the documentation and experiment a bit before coming here and asking for help. The one time I got help here on a wireless setup for my Verizon MIFI unit, I got an answer almost right away. People were pretty kind, too, as I did not have a handle on the ins and outs of encryption keys and what a wpa key was. Since then, through working through more than once, I've learned those things. As your machine's admin, you will learn things through using it with OpenBSD. This can take time and it helps to have an interest in these things. Your reward is a machine that behaves the way you expect it to and fewer security problems (every Windows user I know complains bitterly about viruses :-\ ). My 2 cents. On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Salim Shaw salims...@vfemail.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 OpenBSD is for the world. You have to ask yourself a few questions. Are you an open source advocate? Do you like the freedom to use an operating system the way you want to? Do you value stability and code correctness in an operating system? Is security paramount in your computing world? Do you value accurate documentation and a developer world who pride themselves on correctness? If the answer to these few question is yes, then OpenBSD is for you. If you like for someone to tell you, how to use an operating system and don't mind your OS crashing and security exploits, then you're in the wrong place. On 11/19/2013 10:37 AM, za...@gmx.com wrote: Hi I am new to OpenBSD. In fact, I am a total newbie here. After reading many posts on this list, I formed the impression that all or most OpenBSD users are high-end IT professionals. I was wondering: are there OpenBSD users who are not so advanced in terms of IT expertise? That is, who are simple computer *users*, not IT professionals? I need to know this because I am starting feeling that, as an average computer user, I might be out of place here. I was attracted to OpenBSD by its security-by-default philosophy. Admittedly, I don't know much about security and I would not be able to set the proper security settings on my own, so I have decided to adopt OpenBSD and use it for simple day-to-day tasks, as a desktop OS (as I would any popular Linux distribution). Does this choice of mine, and its underlying reasoning, make sense? Are there any significant drawbacks to my adoption of OpenBSD (such as OpenBSD being too technical and too difficult, as compared, say, to Linux distros)? Please, give me some advice. If OpenBSD is not for me, I would rather know it sooner than later. Thanks Zaf - -- Salim A. Shaw System Administrator OpenBSD / Free Software Advocate Need stability and security --- Try OpenBSD. BSD, ISC license all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSi4k7AAoJELO0Z/gjFO4kryMIAKifERLcoPeYtYo544vMC+c3 c18nb275QTLp7bMEl+iZqfuEcRsQ0V4cHfO+IsJ6Z1RAWwwEFu5GtYvWm01KOWk/ PIdh+A5e3N5aHsu0VWpgBLZeyJPH2x4QzQwOOITNk6ak5mLyVmPr8PkTDV083zNl /U+NKoOR7o/V+EMcvzrvxd3GQh5TB+pnFaEuqXU7JkqcHdLdS2NhTDy2W7zAp5LQ EL8GWpBKzN/dXD1vUhRq7c7fez5TZxoQ2tL3IvsMyds7P/BSl21B7tTwUIx/oo5O hjB9bF13OCy+WXYWDESKMOodMlREm7wUETMpdubCGVOpxD61L/TZCGWcgKGEXew= =K6m4 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 10:37 AM, za...@gmx.com wrote: Hi I am new to OpenBSD. In fact, I am a total newbie here. After reading many posts on this list, I formed the impression that all or most OpenBSD users are high-end IT professionals. I was wondering: are there OpenBSD users who are not so advanced in terms of IT expertise? That is, who are simple computer *users*, not IT professionals? I need to know this because I am starting feeling that, as an average computer user, I might be out of place here. I was attracted to OpenBSD by its security-by-default philosophy. Admittedly, I don't know much about security and I would not be able to set the proper security settings on my own, so I have decided to adopt OpenBSD and use it for simple day-to-day tasks, as a desktop OS (as I would any popular Linux distribution). Does this choice of mine, and its underlying reasoning, make sense? Are there any significant drawbacks to my adoption of OpenBSD (such as OpenBSD being too technical and too difficult, as compared, say, to Linux distros)? You can't lump Linux distros together, in terms of sys-administration difficulty. Some, e.g., Mint or Ubuntu, try to be easy to administer and hide the details from you. Others, such as Slackware or Arch, require more knowledge. OpenBSD is certainly more comparable to the latter than the former. It's not a point-and-shoot camera; it's more like a Leica or a Hasselblad. You have to be willing to focus it yourself (heaven forfend!) and know something about exposure. But if you are willing to learn (and learning will not be impeded by poor documentation; one of the things that is unusual about OpenBSD is the care devoted to the documentation), the results will be gratifying. Please, give me some advice. If OpenBSD is not for me, I would rather know it sooner than later. Thanks Zaf
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
za...@gmx.com wrote: I have decided to adopt OpenBSD and use it for simple day-to-day tasks, as a desktop OS (as I would any popular Linux distribution). Does this choice of mine, and its underlying reasoning, make sense? Yes, it does most of the stuff Linux does, mostly except where prevented from doing so by closed source of the sort acceptable to Linux but not to OpenBSD Are there any significant drawbacks to my adoption of OpenBSD (such as OpenBSD being too technical and too difficult, as compared, say, to Linux distros)? It is a tad more technical. It is not hideously difficult. It's fast enough to install and try that you might as well grab a spare computer and try it once. Read the directions, they're concise and accurate. -- Jack Woehr # We commonly say we have no time when, Box 51, Golden CO 80402 # of course, we have all that there is. http://www.softwoehr.com # - James Mason, _The Art of Chess_, 1905
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
On 19.11.2013 10:37, za...@gmx.com wrote: Hi I am new to OpenBSD. In fact, I am a total newbie here. After reading many posts on this list, I formed the impression that all or most OpenBSD users are high-end IT professionals. I was wondering: are there OpenBSD users who are not so advanced in terms of IT expertise? That is, who are simple computer *users*, not IT professionals? I am sure there are many OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals - I am one of them. I don't know what your specific needs are, but I would say that OpenBSD is good for anyone who is willing to read the FAQ and other official documentation including man pages and spend time learning the system and how it works. Also, I would suggest searching the misc@ archives if there is a question before posting to the mailing list. Put it on an extra partition or a spare computer and see where it takes you. You'll never really know if OpenBSD is for you until you try it. -- Chess Griffin
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
Salim Shaw salims...@vfemail.net writes: OpenBSD is for the world. You have to ask yourself a few questions. Are you an open source advocate? Do you like the freedom to use an operating system the way you want to? Do you value stability and code correctness in an operating system? Is security paramount in your computing world? Do you value accurate documentation and a developer world who pride themselves on correctness? If the answer to these few question is yes, then OpenBSD is for you. I'd like to point out that yes is not a required answer to all those questions. Just pick what you like... [...] -- jca | PGP : 0x06A11494 / 61DB D9A0 00A4 67CF 2A90 8961 6191 8FBF 06A1 1494
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
Zaf, I am not an IT professional and I run OpenBSD on my pc and laptops. I've used it for years (since 3.0) and am very, very happy. I haven't looked at comparable programs for powerpoint files, so I boot Windows for those. On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 6:37 AM, za...@gmx.com wrote: Hi I am new to OpenBSD. In fact, I am a total newbie here. After reading many posts on this list, I formed the impression that all or most OpenBSD users are high-end IT professionals. I was wondering: are there OpenBSD users who are not so advanced in terms of IT expertise? That is, who are simple computer *users*, not IT professionals? I need to know this because I am starting feeling that, as an average computer user, I might be out of place here. I was attracted to OpenBSD by its security-by-default philosophy. Admittedly, I don't know much about security and I would not be able to set the proper security settings on my own, so I have decided to adopt OpenBSD and use it for simple day-to-day tasks, as a desktop OS (as I would any popular Linux distribution). Does this choice of mine, and its underlying reasoning, make sense? Are there any significant drawbacks to my adoption of OpenBSD (such as OpenBSD being too technical and too difficult, as compared, say, to Linux distros)? Please, give me some advice. If OpenBSD is not for me, I would rather know it sooner than later. Thanks Zaf
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
There are actually rather a few of us. I have a fairly large IT skillset, but haven't had the opportunity to use them in some time. ALso, I am virtually the only blind user of OpenBSD that I know of (use a remote login as some tools won't work directly from console). I won't harp on that point (people are aware and leave it at that). There are lots of resources available for the starting user. the document man afterbot is very important if you wish to set up some ancillary services. There is also a fairly large ports tree for some items that might not have been packaged yet. THere are also plenty of people around here to ask questions of, though it is recommended that you do some legwork first. Just be aware, like any community, there are personalities here. SO don't take some of the comments personally. -eric On Nov 19, 2013, at 8:37 AM, za...@gmx.com wrote: Hi I am new to OpenBSD. In fact, I am a total newbie here. After reading many posts on this list, I formed the impression that all or most OpenBSD users are high-end IT professionals. I was wondering: are there OpenBSD users who are not so advanced in terms of IT expertise? That is, who are simple computer *users*, not IT professionals? I need to know this because I am starting feeling that, as an average computer user, I might be out of place here. I was attracted to OpenBSD by its security-by-default philosophy. Admittedly, I don't know much about security and I would not be able to set the proper security settings on my own, so I have decided to adopt OpenBSD and use it for simple day-to-day tasks, as a desktop OS (as I would any popular Linux distribution). Does this choice of mine, and its underlying reasoning, make sense? Are there any significant drawbacks to my adoption of OpenBSD (such as OpenBSD being too technical and too difficult, as compared, say, to Linux distros)? Please, give me some advice. If OpenBSD is not for me, I would rather know it sooner than later. Thanks Zaf
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
On Tue, 19 Nov 2013, Michael wrote: From: Michael ber...@opensuse.us To: misc misc@openbsd.org Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 19:44:29 Subject: Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals? ... I haven't looked at comparable programs for powerpoint files, so I boot Windows for those. Impress: http://www.libreoffice.org/features/impress/ from LibreOffice may do what you want. Haven't used it myself. LibreOffice is in ports/packages on the amd64 i386 platforms. -- Dennis Davis dennisda...@fastmail.fm
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
Tue, 19 Nov 2013 16:37:25 +0100 tarihinde za...@gmx.com yazmýþ: to Linux distros)? Please, give me some advice. If OpenBSD is not for me, I would rather know it sooner than later. I am not an IT Pro :) On the other hand I do run OpenBSD on desktop/laptop. I am quite comfortable with it. Michael W. Lucas wrote an excellent book about OpenBSD. It is Absolute OpenBSD 2nd Edition It helps a lot. Besides I suggest you to watch Michael W. Lucas about OpenBSD for Linux users. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXPV3vJF99k It all sums up; how to work with openbsd, do daily computing and etc. -- Gökþin Akdeniz goksin.akde...@gmail.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 01:28:30PM -0700, eric oyen wrote: [...] ALso, I am virtually the only blind user of OpenBSD that I know of [...] Which reminds me... If I recall correctly, one of your issues was the installation procedure being targeted at sighted users. -current has an option for automatic installation via previously prepared answers to the questions bsd.rd asks. Did you give that a try, and if so, how did it work out? I'd be really interested in if it can improve the installation process for you and other visually impaired users. -- Gregor Best
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
Hi Zaf, I am an IT professional myself even though my daily work is far away from the OpenBSD world, which is also the major reason I find OpenBSD attractive. I would say your reasons make good sense and so do your choice. It takes time to learn but if you value the security-by-default philosophy then you are the right place. The way I see it there is no replacement for OpenBSD. If you should consider an alternative, I would suggest to compare to other BSD distributions and not Linux. The contribution part of the community is another story though. My impression so far is that a highly specialized technical knowledge is required to be able to contribute at all. But as a user I guess only basic UNIX skills are required. Best wishes --- I have been following these mailing lists for some months now On 11/19/2013 16:37, za...@gmx.com wrote: Hi I am new to OpenBSD. In fact, I am a total newbie here. After reading many posts on this list, I formed the impression that all or most OpenBSD users are high-end IT professionals. I was wondering: are there OpenBSD users who are not so advanced in terms of IT expertise? That is, who are simple computer *users*, not IT professionals? I need to know this because I am starting feeling that, as an average computer user, I might be out of place here. I was attracted to OpenBSD by its security-by-default philosophy. Admittedly, I don't know much about security and I would not be able to set the proper security settings on my own, so I have decided to adopt OpenBSD and use it for simple day-to-day tasks, as a desktop OS (as I would any popular Linux distribution). Does this choice of mine, and its underlying reasoning, make sense? Are there any significant drawbacks to my adoption of OpenBSD (such as OpenBSD being too technical and too difficult, as compared, say, to Linux distros)? Please, give me some advice. If OpenBSD is not for me, I would rather know it sooner than later. Thanks Zaf
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
On 11/19/13 22:38, Carsten Larsen wrote: Hi Zaf, I am an IT professional myself even though my daily work is far away from the OpenBSD world, which is also the major reason I find OpenBSD attractive. I would say your reasons make good sense and so do your choice. It takes time to learn but if you value the security-by-default philosophy then you are the right place. The way I see it there is no replacement for OpenBSD. If you should consider an alternative, I would suggest to compare to other BSD distributions and not Linux. The contribution part of the community is another story though. My impression so far is that a highly specialized technical knowledge is required to be able to contribute at all. But as a user I guess only basic UNIX skills are required. Best wishes Contributing is easy just buy the great stuff at: http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html or give a donation... Fred :~)
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 10:37 AM, za...@gmx.com wrote: Hi I am new to OpenBSD. In fact, I am a total newbie here. After reading many posts on this list, I formed the impression that all or most OpenBSD users are high-end IT professionals. I was wondering: are there OpenBSD users who are not so advanced in terms of IT expertise? That is, who are simple computer *users*, not IT professionals? I am a simple user who learned about OpenBSD upon beginning to share space with a sysadmin. I was given a sparc to experiment with, installed femail and used it as a mailserver, then got the bug and quickly built a webserver as well. I now default to using OpenBSD for various things and I often tackle complicated projects just for fun. I need to know this because I am starting feeling that, as an average computer user, I might be out of place here. I was attracted to OpenBSD by its security-by-default philosophy. Admittedly, I don't know much about security and I would not be able to set the proper security settings on my own, so I have decided to adopt OpenBSD and use it for simple day-to-day tasks, as a desktop OS (as I would any popular Linux distribution). Does this choice of mine, and its underlying reasoning, make sense? I set up a desktop machine several years ago using similar reasoning, also figuring that even if it didn't end up any more secure when I was done, I'd learn more by using the machine every day than by playing with others just when I had a project in mind. I spent a lot of time learning how the new packages I'd installed sat on top of the base system, so at least from an educational perspective it was pretty fascinating. Made for a nice, clean system, too, since every time I debated installing yet more applications, I'd be reminded of that nice secure base I'd started with and had been chipping away at ever since. It did take me some time to get mine set up nicely into desktop system form back then, especially compared to the easy job I'm used to when setting up OpenBSD as a server. I couldn't get the hang of cwm for an embarrassingly long time and a Brother HL-2040 printer and I nearly fought to the death. But it worked/works fine. Are there any significant drawbacks to my adoption of OpenBSD (such as OpenBSD being too technical and too difficult, as compared, say, to Linux distros)? For me it was more a matter of figuring out what types of useful things OpenBSD could do for me as only a casual user. Once I had a cool thing I wanted in mind and knew it was possible, I rarely encountered difficulty in making it happen, given some lead time for manual reading. You might be surprised at how quickly working with it starts to seem very comfortable. It helps that it's so streamlined. I never felt that way about, say, Ubuntu, no matter how much time I spent with the command line. There's some unifying logic to how things are organized and what is included by default that makes learning and exploring on your own a little easier. Regarding relative difficulty, I'm not sure I saw much of a difference between learning OpenBSD and the couple flavors of Linux I originally tried out at around the same time, but I began with almost no Unix background. It's not a matter of difficulty or technical knowledge so much as knowing where to look for the information you need. If you're firmly in the simple computer user category, sometimes you end up spending time trying to guess what names and terms people in the know might use for things before you can even get a useful result from apropos. This is, incidentally, a great use for the mailing list archives, where many useful man page directions have already been given. I'll echo the recommendation for Michael W. Lucas' Absolute OpenBSD 2nd edition. It's a great general refresher for those of us who don't use the OS heavily enough to really memorize the basics and it complements the documentation well. It also contains some quality of life tips - turning off incessant beeping, moving windows around, etc. - that might help out a lot if you do decide to dive into desktop use and don't yet know what all your options are. If you're using OpenBSD in the workplace its advantages are obvious. If you are thinking about it for fun or personal use, it all kind of boils down to your personal level of curiosity. If you love knowing how and why things work, you'll probably be really happy getting to know OpenBSD and will appreciate how useful it can be.
Re: Are there OpenBSD users who are not IT professionals?
On Nov 19 16:37:25, za...@gmx.com wrote: I am new to OpenBSD. In fact, I am a total newbie here. After reading many posts on this list, I formed the impression that all or most OpenBSD users are high-end IT professionals. I was wondering: are there OpenBSD users who are not so advanced in terms of IT expertise? That is, who are simple computer *users*, not IT professionals? You are wrong assuming that all or even most people on this list are IT professionals. However, I think I have one of more interesting stories to share with misc. I started using OpenBSD six years ago. Being a research mathematician one of the most important computer tools for my job is typesetting system TeX. At that time I was an avid FreeBSD user but I needed some fancy TeX features which were not present at that time standard distribution of TeX for UNIX called teTeX. I looked around and OpenBSD was the second (only to Debian) UNIX-like system to switch from teTeX from TeXLive distribution of TeX. Over the night I switched from FreeBSD to OpenBSD and discovered how simple and predictable is OpenBSD comparing to FreeBSD let alone to Ubuntu I had on my office desktop at that time. Couple years prior I started running FreeBSD in frustration with the attitude and incompetence of Linux IT guys after most U.S. research universities switched from Solaris which was running on X client to Linux. But my story doesn't end up here. As the time went by I became thank to OpenBSD philosophy and design more competent computer and in particularly UNIX user than I have ever been in my lifetime. I used those skills to greatly increase my efficiency in performing my day job which became more demanding as economic crisis hit hard U.S. academia. I have never taught of myself as an IT professional until my colleagues and IT personal started relaying on my computer skills to get things done. Thanks to new computer skills I acquired using OpenBSD about six months ago I got a job offer from an academic data mining lab. I accepted the job offer and now the large part of my paycheck comes from doing computer work and more interestingly using OpenBSD not just on my desktop computer. Am I an IT professional? Not by a long stretch of imagination but I probably more competent than many who consider themselves IT professionals I need to know this because I am starting feeling that, as an average computer user, I might be out of place here. My kids who just learned how to read use OpenBSD. They can tell you everything about booting, buffering and many other things. They even do their homework on OpenBSD. I was attracted to OpenBSD by its security-by-default philosophy. Admittedly, I don't know much about security and I would not be able to set the proper security settings on my own, so I have decided to adopt OpenBSD and use it for simple day-to-day tasks, as a desktop OS (as I would any popular Linux distribution). Does this choice of mine, and its underlying reasoning, make sense? Ironically the major downside of making leaving at least in part by playing with OpenBSD was that for the first time I was forced to use Linux. At work we have to use proprietary software as MATLAB which doesn't run on OpenBSD but besides that there are simply situations in which OpenBSD is not the most appropriate tool (for example to do scientific computing) or even storing large amounts of data (HAMMER comes to mind). I am becoming semi-competent RedHat users and I could not begin to describe you my frustration with inconsistencies, shear complexity and unpredictability of the Linux in general and RedHat in particular which is rock stable comparing to a distro like Ubuntu. Are there any significant drawbacks to my adoption of OpenBSD (such as OpenBSD being too technical and too difficult, as compared, say, to Linux distros)? I would say that it is the other way around. Linux is too technical and too difficult. Don't belive me. Try writing semi serious firewall rules using IP tables and then compare to PF. Try configuring something as trivial as DHCP server or even client on Linux. Try getting NFS to work properly or OpenVPN. The situation gets just worse with more complicated services. Actually for people who need proprietary software at least on the Desktop level and plug and play features OS X offers significant advantages over Linux. If you know how to use it OS X is even interesting for UNIX guys who do not want to think.
Heads-up for Sydney OpenBSD users
The Ruxcon (security conf) people have some monthly sessions in various cities (Melbourne and Sydney and, IIRC, Perth is on the todo list) with a couple of speakers on each date. This month's Sydney Ruxmon includes a talk by OpenBSD/OpenSSH dev Darren Tucker. Here is the full text of the notice from Ruxcon: == Ruxmon Sydney has been shifted to Friday the 13th due to last Friday falling on a public holiday. For more information please see: http://www.ruxcon.org.au/ruxmon. Registration is essential so please e-mail syd-ruxmon-regis...@ruxcon.org.au with your name in the subject line before 12pm Thursday to ensure you'll have a name-tag waiting when you arrive. Presentations Overview of VOIP Security - Julien Goodwin This talk covers the protocol layers to a VoIP system and the common flaws to them. From laser microphone eavesdropping and WAN interception to session attacks and fuzzing. Presented in a way that helps you understand how each step builds upon the previous to make a secure whole. OpenSSH Security Measures - Darren Tucker OpenSSH is a widely used SSH implementation. This talk describes some of the techniques OpenSSH uses to reduce the likelihood and severity of security problems. It is an update of a talk given by Damien Miller at Ruxmon Melbourne in 2010. Details Date: Friday, April 13th Time: 6:00PM Location: Google Sydney, 5/48 Pirrama Road, Pyrmont. Directions: The Google office is a short walk from the Star City Metro Light Rail stop. Attendees should either walk up to level 5 or take elevator. There will be a registration desk where name-tags will be handed out (prior registration is required) to attendees. === *** NOTE *** Please DO NOT CC me. I am subscribed to the list. Mail to the sender address that does not originate at the list server is tarpitted. The reply-to: address is provided for those who feel compelled to reply off list. Thankyou. Rod/ --- This life is not the real thing. It is not even in Beta. If it was, then OpenBSD would already have a man page for it.
Re: essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users
http://www.openbsd.org/books.html
essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users
I consider the following to be essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users... Absolute FreeBSD, 2nd Edition information by Michael W. Lucas... http://www.nostarch.com/abs_bsd2.htm Don't forget the Book of PF, 2nd Edition by Peter N.M. Hansteen ... http://nostarch.com/pf2.htm Over the years I've spent a lot of money on O'Reilly GNU/Linux books, but the 1st ed. versions of the above books astound me with their clarity in explaining very technical concepts in an easy-to-understand manner. I never before considered technical computer writing to be elegantly handled, but combined with the man pages, the documentation is simply superb. Usually I wouldn't even consider buying a newer version of a computer book I already have, but I will be buying the second editions of said books when I can. Thanks for your efforts! Daniel Villarreal On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Amit Kulkarni amitk...@gmail.com wrote: Lucas is bringing out a 2nd edition of absolute openbsd, which i am gonna buy ...
Re: essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users
On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 10:27:22 -0400 Daniel Villarreal yclwebmas...@gmail.com wrote: I consider the following to be essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users... Absolute FreeBSD, 2nd Edition information by Michael W. Lucas... http://www.nostarch.com/abs_bsd2.htm Don't forget the Book of PF, 2nd Edition by Peter N.M. Hansteen ... http://nostarch.com/pf2.htm Over the years I've spent a lot of money on O'Reilly GNU/Linux books, but the 1st ed. versions of the above books astound me with their clarity in explaining very technical concepts in an easy-to-understand manner. I never before considered technical computer writing to be elegantly handled, but combined with the man pages, the documentation is simply superb. Usually I wouldn't even consider buying a newer version of a computer book I already have, but I will be buying the second editions of said books when I can. Thanks for your efforts! Daniel Villarreal On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Amit Kulkarni amitk...@gmail.com wrote: Lucas is bringing out a 2nd edition of absolute openbsd, which i am gonna buy I consider the best: man afterboot man hier :DD jirib
Re: essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users
On 06/09/2011 15:27, Daniel Villarreal wrote: I consider the following to be essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users... Absolute FreeBSD, 2nd Edition information by Michael W. Lucas... http://www.nostarch.com/abs_bsd2.htm ^ Wrong OS, though Michael Lucas is working on the 2nd edition of Absolute OpenBSD atm. Sevan
Re: essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users
http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-OpenBSD-Unix-Practical-Paranoid/dp/1886411999 ! 2011/9/6 Daniel Villarreal yclwebmas...@gmail.com I consider the following to be essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users... Absolute FreeBSD, 2nd Edition information by Michael W. Lucas... http://www.nostarch.com/abs_bsd2.htm Don't forget the Book of PF, 2nd Edition by Peter N.M. Hansteen ... http://nostarch.com/pf2.htm Over the years I've spent a lot of money on O'Reilly GNU/Linux books, but the 1st ed. versions of the above books astound me with their clarity in explaining very technical concepts in an easy-to-understand manner. I never before considered technical computer writing to be elegantly handled, but combined with the man pages, the documentation is simply superb. Usually I wouldn't even consider buying a newer version of a computer book I already have, but I will be buying the second editions of said books when I can. Thanks for your efforts! Daniel Villarreal On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Amit Kulkarni amitk...@gmail.com wrote: Lucas is bringing out a 2nd edition of absolute openbsd, which i am gonna buy ...
Re: essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users
I'm sorry. See here for how to get a 25% discount on an electronic version of Absolute OpenBSD: UNIX for the Practical Paranoid. http://www.michaelwlucas.com/getting-my-books You could always search online for a used copy. Thanks for the correction, Daniel Villarreal On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Sevan / Venture37 ventur...@gmail.comwrote: On 06/09/2011 15:27, Daniel Villarreal wrote: I consider the following to be essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users... Absolute FreeBSD, 2nd Edition information by Michael W. Lucas... http://www.nostarch.com/abs_**bsd2.htmhttp://www.nostarch.com/abs_bsd2.htm ^ Wrong OS, though Michael Lucas is working on the 2nd edition of Absolute OpenBSD atm. Sevan
Re: essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users
Es tut mir Leid ! Danke, Daniel On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 10:59 AM, R0me0 *** knight@gmail.com wrote: http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-OpenBSD-Unix-Practical-Paranoid/dp/1886411999! 2011/9/6 Daniel Villarreal yclwebmas...@gmail.com I consider the following to be essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users... Absolute FreeBSD, 2nd Edition information by Michael W. Lucas... http://www.nostarch.com/abs_bsd2.htm Don't forget the Book of PF, 2nd Edition by Peter N.M. Hansteen ... http://nostarch.com/pf2.htm Over the years I've spent a lot of money on O'Reilly GNU/Linux books, but the 1st ed. versions of the above books astound me with their clarity in explaining very technical concepts in an easy-to-understand manner. I never before considered technical computer writing to be elegantly handled, but combined with the man pages, the documentation is simply superb. Usually I wouldn't even consider buying a newer version of a computer book I already have, but I will be buying the second editions of said books when I can. Thanks for your efforts! Daniel Villarreal On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Amit Kulkarni amitk...@gmail.com wrote: Lucas is bringing out a 2nd edition of absolute openbsd, which i am gonna buy ...
Re: essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users
On 09/06/11 22:44, jirib wrote: On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 10:27:22 -0400 Daniel Villarrealyclwebmas...@gmail.com wrote: I consider the following to be essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users... Absolute FreeBSD, 2nd Edition information by Michael W. Lucas... http://www.nostarch.com/abs_bsd2.htm Don't forget the Book of PF, 2nd Edition by Peter N.M. Hansteen ... http://nostarch.com/pf2.htm Over the years I've spent a lot of money on O'Reilly GNU/Linux books, but the 1st ed. versions of the above books astound me with their clarity in explaining very technical concepts in an easy-to-understand manner. I never before considered technical computer writing to be elegantly handled, but combined with the man pages, the documentation is simply superb. Usually I wouldn't even consider buying a newer version of a computer book I already have, but I will be buying the second editions of said books when I can. Thanks for your efforts! Daniel Villarreal On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Amit Kulkarniamitk...@gmail.com wrote: Lucas is bringing out a 2nd edition of absolute openbsd, which i am gonna buy I consider the best: man afterboot man hier :DD jirib The FAQ then Theo's e-mail. :)
Re: essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users
Daniel Villarreal yclwebmas...@gmail.com writes: I consider the following to be essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users... Absolute FreeBSD, 2nd Edition information by Michael W. Lucas... http://www.nostarch.com/abs_bsd2.htm As others have pointed out already, Michael is working on the second edition of The Absolute OpenBSD. My guesstimate is that it will be ready some time next year. In the meantime, he's working on an ebook about OpenSSH that may be of interest to misc@ readers. Don't forget the Book of PF, 2nd Edition by Peter N.M. Hansteen ... http://nostarch.com/pf2.htm Thanks very much for the mention! I hope to come back soonish with more useful material. But please keep in mind that those books would not have existed without the efforts of Theo and the other OpenBSD developers. I would urge anyone who has found my scribblings useful or entertaining to go to http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html and buy items, send donations (and yes, drag your boss and his credit card along too), that's the most direct route to helping OpenBSD development along. - Peter -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users
On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 10:27:22 -0400, Daniel Villarreal wrote: I consider the following to be essential reading for beginning OpenBSD users... Absolute FreeBSD, 2nd Edition information by Michael W. Lucas... http://www.nostarch.com/abs_bsd2.htm Don't forget the Book of PF, 2nd Edition by Peter N.M. Hansteen ... http://nostarch.com/pf2.htm Over the years I've spent a lot of money on O'Reilly GNU/Linux books, but the 1st ed. versions of the above books astound me with their clarity in explaining very technical concepts in an easy-to-understand manner. I never before considered technical computer writing to be elegantly handled, but combined with the man pages, the documentation is simply superb. Usually I wouldn't even consider buying a newer version of a computer book I already have, but I will be buying the second editions of said books when I can. Thanks for your efforts! Daniel Villarreal On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Amit Kulkarni amitk...@gmail.com wrote: Lucas is bringing out a 2nd edition of absolute openbsd, which i am gonna buy ... Although now a bit dated Secure Architectures with OpenBSD by Brandon Palmer and Jose Nazario is a good read. Most of the general Unix stuff in the book is very applicable even though I believe the book was released when OpenBSD 3.8 was out. For the OpenBSD specific stuff you'll probably want to compare with the man pages or FAQ.
Re: OpenBSD users.
Campobasso (Italy) -- Cordialmente, ls
Re: OpenBSD users.
viva Chile mierda ! On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 10:55 AM, luka l...@linux.it wrote: Campobasso (Italy) -- Cordialmente, ls
Re: OpenBSD users.
Comodoro Rivadavia, Chubut, Argentina On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 20:07, Mateusz Gierblinski mateusz.gierblin...@gmail.com wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care -- Hugo Osvaldo Barrera
Re: OpenBSD users.
Am 18.07.2010 15:46, schrieb marellibsd marellibsd: From Serbia On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 3:35 AM, Frank Bax f...@sympatico.ca wrote: Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care There is an OpenBSD user in every country on this planet. Mainz , Germany (the city of Johannes Gutenberg who invented the mean of printing)
Re: OpenBSD users.
Am Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:00:20 -0500 schrieb George Cagle george.ca...@gmail.com: United States -- Huntsville/Madison, Alabama. this is alive... i am forced to reply. Paderborn, Germany. -- andre
Re: OpenBSD users.
Paris, France. 2010/7/23 Andre Naehring anaehr...@linvat.de: Am Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:00:20 -0500 schrieb George Cagle george.ca...@gmail.com: United States -- Huntsville/Madison, Alabama. this is alive... i am forced to reply. Paderborn, Germany. -- B andre -- Lanciaux Maxime
Re: OpenBSD users.
Manila, Philippines. On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 09:43 +0800, Tito Mari Francis EscaC1o wrote: I'm from Manila, Philippines On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 7:07 AM, Mateusz Gierblinski mateusz.gierblin...@gmail.com wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care
Re: OpenBSD users.
United States -- Huntsville/Madison, Alabama. On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 1:43 AM, riwanlky riwan...@mcojaya.com wrote: Riwan, Jakarta, Indonesia Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care
Re: OpenBSD users.
CYOW Regards cf Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 01:07:12 +0200 Subject: OpenBSD users. From: mateusz.gierblin...@gmail.com To: misc@openbsd.org Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care
Re: OpenBSD users.
Riwan, Jakarta, Indonesia Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care
Re: OpenBSD users.
Central America San JosC), Costa Rica On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 1:43 AM, riwanlky riwan...@mcojaya.com wrote: Riwan, Jakarta, Indonesia Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care
Re: OpenBSD users.
San Jose, Costa Rica Rosen Luis F Urrea wrote, On 7/21/2010 12:05 PM: Central America San JosC), Costa Rica On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 1:43 AM, riwanlkyriwan...@mcojaya.com wrote: Riwan, Jakarta, Indonesia Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care
Re: OpenBSD users.
Amirica do Sul - BraSil. Regards, Bye. 2010/7/21 Rosen Iliev ro...@mynshosts.com: San Jose, Costa Rica Rosen Luis F Urrea wrote, On 7/21/2010 12:05 PM: Central America San JosC), Costa Rica On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 1:43 AM, riwanlkyriwan...@mcojaya.com wrote: Riwan, Jakarta, Indonesia Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care
Re: OpenBSD users.
Portland, Oregon (United States) -Kyle
Re: OpenBSD users.
Well, shoot...just in case... Cheyenne, WY, USA and I'm looking for a backup systems administrator, located with an hour or so of Cheyenne. That would include a lot of the northern front range in Colorado and the Laramie, WY area. Yes, a lot of the work can be done remotely but the parts that can't are important enough that you need not reply if you aren't relatively close. Jeff Ross
Re: OpenBSD users.
Fjugesta - Sweden :)
Re: OpenBSD users.
Maryland, right between DC and Baltimore. Mark On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 3:37 PM, kalle kallikri...@gmail.com wrote: Fjugesta - Sweden :)
Re: OpenBSD users.
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 03:48:58PM -0400, Mark Romer wrote: Maryland, right between DC and Baltimore. Mark On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 3:37 PM, kalle kallikri...@gmail.com wrote: Fjugesta - Sweden :) will it ever end ? -- Gilles Chehade
Re: OpenBSD users.
Warsaw, Poland. W dniu 2010-07-21 21:48, Mark Romer pisze: Maryland, right between DC and Baltimore. Mark On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 3:37 PM, kallekallikri...@gmail.com wrote: Fjugesta - Sweden :)
Re: OpenBSD users.
Gilles Chehade wrote: On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 03:48:58PM -0400, Mark Romer wrote: Maryland, right between DC and Baltimore. Mark On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 3:37 PM, kalle kallikri...@gmail.com wrote: Fjugesta - Sweden :) will it ever end ? Not if people keep replying to it! :-)
Re: OpenBSD users.
I'm from Manila, Philippines On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 7:07 AM, Mateusz Gierblinski mateusz.gierblin...@gmail.com wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care
Re: OpenBSD users
Shiu Lam San Josi, Costa Rica
Re: OpenBSD users.
Right now I wander back and forth between Austin, TX and Guatemala City, Guatemala
Re: OpenBSD users.
Austin, TX, formerly in San Diego On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 11:11, Chris Bennett ch...@bennettconstruction.biz wrote: Right now I wander back and forth between Austin, TX and Guatemala City, Guatemala
Re: OpenBSD users.
Aaron Lewis , TsingDao , China.
Re: OpenBSD users.
On 07/17/2010 08:07 PM, Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care Buenos Aires, Argentina, South America.
Re: OpenBSD users.
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 21:25:24 -0300 Limaunion limaun...@fibertel.com.ar wrote: On 07/17/2010 08:07 PM, Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care Buenos Aires, Argentina, South America. Joco Pessoa, Paramba - Brazil, South America. matheus -- We will call you cygnus, The God of balance you shall be A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: OpenBSD users.
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 21:55:56 -0300 Nenhum_de_Nos math...@eternamente.info wrote: On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 21:25:24 -0300 Limaunion limaun...@fibertel.com.ar wrote: On 07/17/2010 08:07 PM, Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care Buenos Aires, Argentina, South America. Joco Pessoa, Paramba - Brazil, South America. matheus damn locales (and relatives :) Joao Pessoa, Paraiba - Brazil, South America. matheus -- We will call you cygnus, The God of balance you shall be A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Re: OpenBSD users.
This really is polluting the list... But Victoria Canada. Sent from my iPhone On 2010-07-18, at 10:18 PM, Sergey Bronnikov este...@gmail.com wrote: Russia/Sergiev Posad -- sergeyb@
Re: OpenBSD users.
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 4:37 AM, Mateusz Gierblinski mateusz.gierblin...@gmail.com wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? Kochi, Kerala, India --Siju
Re: OpenBSD users
Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care Central Oregon, USSA.
Re: OpenBSD users
Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Senzeni Na, Mars.
Re: OpenBSD users.
On 07/17/2010 08:07 PM, Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care Londrina - Parana - Brazil
Re: OpenBSD users.
Sendt fra min iPod Den 19/07/2010 kl. 19.12 skrev Leonardo Carneiro - Veltec lscarne...@veltec.com.br: On 07/17/2010 08:07 PM, Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care Denmark, originally from Nuuk Greenland
Re: OpenBSD users.
On 07/17/2010 08:07 PM, Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care Chapel Hill, NC, USA
Re: OpenBSD users
On 07/19/10 19:57, Noah Pugsley wrote: Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care Central Oregon, USSA. Tuebingen, germany.
Re: OpenBSD users.
From Serbia On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 3:35 AM, Frank Bax f...@sympatico.ca wrote: Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care There is an OpenBSD user in every country on this planet.
Re: OpenBSD users.
Brazil!
Re: OpenBSD users.
Mixico On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 1:46 PM, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO vt...@c3sl.ufpr.br wrote: Brazil! -- Hermes Ojeda Ruiz
Re: OpenBSD users.
Moscow/Russia -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: OpenBSD users.
Calgary Alvaro On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 14:13, Dmitrij D. Czarkoff czark...@gmail.comwrote: Moscow/Russia -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: OpenBSD users.
Mateusz Gierblinski mateusz.gierblin...@gmail.com writes: I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? Bergen, Norway - P -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: OpenBSD users.
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 01:07:12AM +0200, Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? Your mom's bedroom. -J.
Re: OpenBSD users.
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 01:07:12AM +0200, Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? The Netherlands!
Re: OpenBSD users.
On 2010-07-17, Mateusz Gierblinski mateusz.gierblin...@gmail.com wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Are you aware that by sending such useless mails you are transforming energy and contributing to global warming? Best regards, Jona -- Worse is better Richard P. Gabriel
Re: OpenBSD users.
Jona Joachim wrote: Are you aware that by sending such useless mails you are transforming energy and contributing to global warming? Oh, well in that case, hello, come here often? ;-) ...Canada, btw. -Bryan.
Re: OpenBSD users.
Russia/Sergiev Posad -- sergeyb@
OpenBSD users.
Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care
Re: OpenBSD users.
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Mateusz Gierblinski mateusz.gierblin...@gmail.com wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? For the developers just pkg_add openbsd-developers. There is no equivalent openbsd-users package. Are you creating one? Floor -- Floor Terra flo...@gmail.com www: http://brobding.mine.nu/
Re: OpenBSD users.
2010/7/17 Mateusz Gierblinski mateusz.gierblin...@gmail.com Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care Ecuador :) Rare race of South America -- Atentamente Andris Genovez Tobar / Sistemas Elastix ECE - Linux LPI-1 - Novell CLA - Apple ACMT http://www.cspmsa.com ageno...@cspmsa.com Jabber: bitfr...@asgard.crice.org Comunidad: http://www.crice.org
Re: OpenBSD users.
Mateusz Gierblinski wrote: Hi misc@ I'm just wondering. Where are you OpenBSD users from? I'm from Belgium, anyone else? Take care There is an OpenBSD user in every country on this planet.
