Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
On 2016-06-24, Jacob L. Leifman wrote: > Is it possible to add more wired NICs to the APU? Yes, it has two USB ports.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Sat, 25 Jun 2016 12:20:04 +0200 Paolo Aglialoro > Just had a look to kontron. > > This ARM model operates from -40°C to +85°C, simply unbelievable. > > [http://www.kontron.com/industries/automation/motherboards/pitx/ktam3874-pitx .html] I could also recommend a review of all other products specifically in category motherboards, as the other form factors may be quite special application systems outside general use scope, still very intriguing: Kontron: Boards and Standard Form Factors - Motherboards [http://www.kontron.com/products/boards-and-standard-form-factors/motherboard s/] There are different Intel Atom, Core and Xeon CPUs, multiple ITX & ATX form factor boards, AMD, Nvidia and Arm CPUs and GPUs, embedded & long term boards, accessories, special form factor and industrial products. Somebody on the list was previously (a while back) asking about thin mini-ITX system boars, here is one such new offer from this company: Kontron: mITX-E38 Intel Atom E38xx SoC (1, 2 or 4 cores), TDP: 5-10W [http://www.kontron.com/products/boards-and-standard-form-factors/motherboard s/mini-itx/mitx-e38.html] This looks like desktop replacement low wattage system with 7 yrs life: Kontron: mITX-BDW-U Intel Core 5thG 14nm Core CPUs w/ 19V power & M.2 [http://www.kontron.com/products/boards-and-standard-form-factors/motherboard s/mini-itx/mitx-bdw-u.html] Product lines go from avionics to defence, medical, telecom, vehicle, industrial, rack, rugged and panel displays and PC's, these obviously represent a much broader range than just network appliances, see here: Kontron: Products [http://www.kontron.com/products] I am mostly interested in the area of OpenBSD and the x86 architecture. Please note, I am not related in any way to this company, just came up with them a while ago and was interested if somebody else got a chance to interact with any of these products. Thanks for the time to review.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Just had a look to kontron. This ARM model operates from -40°C to +85°C, simply unbelievable. http://www.kontron.com/industries/automation/motherboards/pitx/ktam3874-pitx. html
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Looks like, it's the same message 2nd time, lets add more insomniac fun bits. Who am I kidding, you'll figure the spelling without reading help. Oh, wait, has anyone tried any product from this company? And I have another question, Wikipedia: Kontron AG [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kontron] Home page: Kontron [http://www.kontron.com/] Can anyone *please* draft a quick list (summary) of OpenBSD friendly computer main board manufacturers of the seriously usable level for embedded, desktop, server and networking classes equipment (skip multimedia & gaming stuff pls), who (did) provide and/or continue to give OpenBSD developers access to system design and programming documentation, and at least engineering documentation? And slightly a different angle, obviously PC Engines is a good recommendation for such a computer board maker, how would you compare to the other "listed"?
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Sat, 25 Jun 2016 09:03:05 +1000 > On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 06:32:33 +0300 > li...@wrant.com wrote: > > > Fri, 24 Jun 2016 12:10:11 +1000 > > > On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 04:30:39 +0300 > > > li...@wrant.com wrote: > > > > > > > > What is more important is the level of engineering information > > > > available from the manufacturer (PC Engines) web site including > > > > tech specs, manual, BIOS updates, accessories, enclosures, diag > > > > boards and also: Schematics! > > > > > > I certainly dig schematics! Don't forget, they use coreboot. > > > > Yes, these are block diagrams of important sub-systems with chip > > pin-outs, signal names, voltages, logic arrangement. It's not the > > complete electric schematic diagram as in a service manual, and > > certainly not system design documentation, but is is engineering > > level sufficient and: public access! > > The schematic here (http://pcengines.ch/schema/apu2c.pdf) actually has > many of the the components too (mostly the support components around > the chips, and power regulators and filters), but they are "joined" > with the corresponding signal pins. Yes, this is the doc I was referring to, and it is very useful for me. > But as you say, engineering level sufficient and public access; > definitely a win. Indeed, I am now much more inclined to order a device with engineering level of documentation! I am totally sick from integrator level docs. > I mentioned coreboot mainly because it is great to have hardware that > comes with it pre-installed, so it is essentially a guarantee that it > works. Got it, thanks for the info. I want to know coreboot & find a real serial BIOS designed from the ground up to be serial line operated. > > Comparing this to the paper manual I got with my expensive 2011 Atom > > D525 system board from SuperMicro, I found what I got lacking for my > > engineers purpose, despite having connector pin-outs and some > > voltages. Also, some time later I found out much cheaper Atom > > mini-ITX boards form competitors as a whole, I would have went with a > > PC Engines if I knew about them then. > > I originally held off on PC Engines because they only had 100Mbps > connections at the time, and the specs were somewhat mediocre. The APU1 > came in, but it only had a dual-core CPU and I have heard horror > stories about it heating up a lot. Well, to be fair with this, I upgrade rare just because it happens that designs are very successful as in 20 years for some systems. And still when I find an appropriate for the time being promising system, I order. To be also fair, I did review Soekris as well, and found that to be too difficult to obtain at the time, no seller in my part of Eastern Europe. > Then the APU2 came in, and it was difficult to refuse; 1GHz quad-core, > 4GB RAM, USB 3.0, supports OpenBSD, and 100% open source and > public-access schematic. And best of all, it means I can finally have a > modern system that doesn't have UEFI, which seems avoidable in laptops > these days unfortunately. Important decision, indeed. See the serial BIOS comment, I now want more than what the traditional BIOS transposed over the BMC/IPMI controller is offering. To add more speculation to the Arm side, the BMC looks like it is (speculatively) an Arm device with a Linux (speculation again) like fw on it, and it is part of my gateway system. And this firmware frequently crashes, luckily not affecting the system until I reboot. This does not make me happy at all, I would prefer that was an OpenBSD based BMC & IPMI block even if the maker insisted Arm was the solution for the controller. So the moment I can haz OpenBSD on the Arm and that can replace the BMC.. This is the moment I will order another BMC, until then, goodbye to IPMI. > > So, are you saying that coreboot is serial compatible BIOS? As in > > textual interface exposed on the serial port, and no menu like the > > other historic Award/Phoenix/Ami PC BIOS-es? Does it give access to > > all the BIOS options over the serial port as in pre-boot system set > > up via RS-232? None video and keyboard dependencies any more for > > complete system management? Is it? > > This one is ASCII only, and doesn't appear to use any funny control > codes to juggle text around the screen and move the cursor all over > the place; if it does use control characters, then they are very > basic ASCII ones for presentation. > > Though I am not sure if this is vanilla Coreboot; it would have been > modified to suit the hardware. More here would be interesting, if you can get details on the firmware. > There is a "menu", but it's one of those "type the number of the item > you wish to enter" menus. The only options I could see are the boot > device order and a few settings here and there. > > The general attitude of this BIOS is "load the OS and get out of the > way", which is how it should be. Indeed, sold. > > > > This seems to be by far more friendly to both engineer
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Sat, 25 Jun 2016 01:46:47 +0200 arrowscr...@mail.com > Too much noise folks. > Hardware discussion does not belong to misc@. Please try go to other > mailing list, maybe people in openbsd-arm will like this hardware > related discussion, but not here. Thanks. Hahaa, now we're talking. Open a can of gateways and pass the popcorn. In short, why Arm it with a .py school project kit, when you got cheap (correction inexpensive, scratch overpriced) x86 boards begging deploy.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Fri, 24 Jun 2016 23:30:37 + (UTC) Christian Weisgerber > On 2016-06-24, Chris Cappuccio wrote: > > >> Walking on the wild side, I suppose something could be done with a > >> switch and vlans. > > > > Yeah, but now your switch is using ten times the power of your router. > > There are small managed switches that have a size and power profile > similar to any dumb desktop switch, e.g.: > http://www.tp-link.us/products/details/cat-39_TL-SG3210.html Yeah, guess I will revert to the copper only models for (home) office, this looks nice! Anyone can say something about the management iface? Some ageing dumb 100 Mbps are giving in and I'm tired of re-soldering. Luckily have spare switches, handfuls of capacitors, yet one switches eats through them and I acquired that after market. I hate the thing. I think one similar TL will actually go on and buy in the near future.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016, Christian Weisgerber wrote: On 2016-06-24, "Jacob L. Leifman" wrote: Is it possible to add more wired NICs to the APU? Not really. You could add more ports with a mini-PCIe dual/quad NIC, but you would have to build your own case. As there are two USB ports, any USB-attached ethernet adapter should work. With a powered USB hub, probably a number of them. Am I right? Of course, performance of such a setup can't match that of a mini-PCIe ethernet adapter. Regards, David
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 06:32:33 +0300 li...@wrant.com wrote: > Fri, 24 Jun 2016 12:10:11 +1000 > > On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 04:30:39 +0300 > > li...@wrant.com wrote: > > > > > > What is more important is the level of engineering information > > > available from the manufacturer (PC Engines) web site including > > > tech specs, manual, BIOS updates, accessories, enclosures, diag > > > boards and also: Schematics! > > > > I certainly dig schematics! Don't forget, they use coreboot. > > Yes, these are block diagrams of important sub-systems with chip > pin-outs, signal names, voltages, logic arrangement. It's not the > complete electric schematic diagram as in a service manual, and > certainly not system design documentation, but is is engineering > level sufficient and: public access! The schematic here (http://pcengines.ch/schema/apu2c.pdf) actually has many of the the components too (mostly the support components around the chips, and power regulators and filters), but they are "joined" with the corresponding signal pins. But as you say, engineering level sufficient and public access; definitely a win. I mentioned coreboot mainly because it is great to have hardware that comes with it pre-installed, so it is essentially a guarantee that it works. > > Comparing this to the paper manual I got with my expensive 2011 Atom > D525 system board from SuperMicro, I found what I got lacking for my > engineers purpose, despite having connector pin-outs and some > voltages. Also, some time later I found out much cheaper Atom > mini-ITX boards form competitors as a whole, I would have went with a > PC Engines if I knew about them then. I originally held off on PC Engines because they only had 100Mbps connections at the time, and the specs were somewhat mediocre. The APU1 came in, but it only had a dual-core CPU and I have heard horror stories about it heating up a lot. Then the APU2 came in, and it was difficult to refuse; 1GHz quad-core, 4GB RAM, USB 3.0, supports OpenBSD, and 100% open source and public-access schematic. And best of all, it means I can finally have a modern system that doesn't have UEFI, which seems avoidable in laptops these days unfortunately. > > So, are you saying that coreboot is serial compatible BIOS? As in > textual interface exposed on the serial port, and no menu like the > other historic Award/Phoenix/Ami PC BIOS-es? Does it give access to > all the BIOS options over the serial port as in pre-boot system set > up via RS-232? None video and keyboard dependencies any more for > complete system management? Is it? This one is ASCII only, and doesn't appear to use any funny control codes to juggle text around the screen and move the cursor all over the place; if it does use control characters, then they are very basic ASCII ones for presentation. Though I am not sure if this is vanilla Coreboot; it would have been modified to suit the hardware. There is a "menu", but it's one of those "type the number of the item you wish to enter" menus. The only options I could see are the boot device order and a few settings here and there. The general attitude of this BIOS is "load the OS and get out of the way", which is how it should be. > > > > > > > This seems to be by far more friendly to both engineer & consumer > > > users. > > > > > > PC Engines APU2 product line > > > [http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2b2.htm] > > > > > > 1) How do the APU systems go as pricing to comparable systems from > > > other similar (industrial class, desktop enclosure) > > > manufacturers? > > > > I have two APU2C4 boards. > > I've never seen these in action, nor had chance to use any coreboot > device. I don't think this is has vanilla coreboot software on it either, given that it only has a serial port and no video output. This is the only coreboot device I have used. > > > The price is not bad, and the ALIX/APU boards are not loaded with > > consumer-grade "ooh, aah" bullet-point rubbish, unlike some of the > > VIA boards which are (quite worryingly) also marketed towards > > medical devices. > > The SuperMicro BIOS experience over serial port (the -F models have a > BMC/IMPI controller onboard) is not that great. It is the traditional > Award style BIOS transposed in a screen interface 1:1 without a proper > serial connection functionality factored in. It is not a serial BIOS, > it is serial exposed historic old school BIOS. Not necessarily bad, > it has borders, colours, much like servers from other commercial > vendors. This BIOS is 100% text-based, and it is a "what goes out stays out" approach as far as its UI is concerned. In my opinion, every single BIOS should be like this. Basically you need to make sure the serial console is connected before starting the system up, otherwise you'll end up missing the BIOS setup menu and the system will either be in the 10 second delay (that allows you to make a selection before it boots into the OS), or it will end up in the OS itself.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Sat, 25 Jun 2016 01:23:25 +0200 Christian Weisgerber > David Vasek: > > > As there are two USB ports, any USB-attached ethernet adapter should work. > > With a powered USB hub, probably a number of them. Am I right? > > If you are desperate enough. > > There's a dual axen(4) adapter in one package: > https://www.startech.com/Networking-IO/usb-network-adapters/USB-3-to-Dual-Port-Gigabit-Ethernet-Adapter-NIC-with-USB-Port~USB32000SPT I was lucky on random 1st pull out of Ebay for a 100 Mbps USB blue clear plastic with SMD LED on-board and what looked on the picture and in the description as an ASIX new model USB to Ethernet adaptor, ordered 2 pcs: axe0 at uhub5 port 1 configuration 1 interface 0 "ASIX Electronics AX88772B" rev 2.00/0.01 addr 5 axe0: AX88772B, address 00:80:8e:mask ukphy0 at axe0 phy 16: Generic IEEE 802.3u media interface, rev. 1: OUI 0x000ec6, model 0x0008 axe1 at uhub5 port 3 configuration 1 interface 0 "ASIX Electronics AX88772B" rev 2.00/0.01 addr 7 axe1: AX88772B, address 00:80:8e:mask ukphy1 at axe1 phy 16: Generic IEEE 802.3u media interface, rev. 1: OUI 0x000ec6, model 0x0008 The sellers rotate their offers frequently so cannot give adequate link. Note, I can't imagine GbE pulled out of USB2, and that's why cheap's OK. These work, but as you presume I do not use them in production, just as a fallback for the comm device Atom N280 (EEE PC 1005HA-B) sub-notebook. You may want to pick another one, I just wanted to share that this works, in contrast with the USB to RS-232 adaptors I picked, that're dismantled.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Too much noise folks. Hardware discussion does not belong to misc@. Please try go to other mailing list, maybe people in openbsd-arm will like this hardware related discussion, but not here. Thanks.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
On 2016-06-24, Chris Cappuccio wrote: >> Walking on the wild side, I suppose something could be done with a >> switch and vlans. > > Yeah, but now your switch is using ten times the power of your router. There are small managed switches that have a size and power profile similar to any dumb desktop switch, e.g.: http://www.tp-link.us/products/details/cat-39_TL-SG3210.html -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
David Vasek: > As there are two USB ports, any USB-attached ethernet adapter should work. > With a powered USB hub, probably a number of them. Am I right? If you are desperate enough. There's a dual axen(4) adapter in one package: https://www.startech.com/Networking-IO/usb-network-adapters/USB-3-to-Dual-Port-Gigabit-Ethernet-Adapter-NIC-with-USB-Port~USB32000SPT -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 06:32:33 +0300 li...@wrant.com wrote: > Fri, 24 Jun 2016 12:10:11 +1000 > > On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 04:30:39 +0300 > > li...@wrant.com wrote: > > > > > > What is more important is the level of engineering information > > > available from the manufacturer (PC Engines) web site including > > > tech specs, manual, BIOS updates, accessories, enclosures, diag > > > boards and also: Schematics! > > > > I certainly dig schematics! Don't forget, they use coreboot. > > Yes, these are block diagrams of important sub-systems with chip > pin-outs, signal names, voltages, logic arrangement. It's not the > complete electric schematic diagram as in a service manual, and > certainly not system design documentation, but is is engineering > level sufficient and: public access! The schematic here (http://pcengines.ch/schema/apu2c.pdf) actually has many of the the components too (mostly the support components around the chips, and power regulators and filters), but they are "joined" with the corresponding signal pins. But as you say, engineering level sufficient and public access; definitely a win. I mentioned coreboot mainly because it is great to have hardware that comes with it pre-installed, so it is essentially a guarantee that it works. > > Comparing this to the paper manual I got with my expensive 2011 Atom > D525 system board from SuperMicro, I found what I got lacking for my > engineers purpose, despite having connector pin-outs and some > voltages. Also, some time later I found out much cheaper Atom > mini-ITX boards form competitors as a whole, I would have went with a > PC Engines if I knew about them then. I originally held off on PC Engines because they only had 100Mbps connections at the time, and the specs were somewhat mediocre. The APU1 came in, but it only had a dual-core CPU and I have heard horror stories about it heating up a lot. Then the APU2 came in, and it was difficult to refuse; 1GHz quad-core, 4GB RAM, USB 3.0, supports OpenBSD, and 100% open source and public-access schematic. And best of all, it means I can finally have a modern system that doesn't have UEFI, which seems avoidable in laptops these days unfortunately. > > So, are you saying that coreboot is serial compatible BIOS? As in > textual interface exposed on the serial port, and no menu like the > other historic Award/Phoenix/Ami PC BIOS-es? Does it give access to > all the BIOS options over the serial port as in pre-boot system set > up via RS-232? None video and keyboard dependencies any more for > complete system management? Is it? This one is ASCII only, and doesn't appear to use any funny control codes to juggle text around the screen and move the cursor all over the place; if it does use control characters, then they are very basic ASCII ones for presentation. Though I am not sure if this is vanilla Coreboot; it would have been modified to suit the hardware. There is a "menu", but it's one of those "type the number of the item you wish to enter" menus. The only options I could see are the boot device order and a few settings here and there. The general attitude of this BIOS is "load the OS and get out of the way", which is how it should be. > > > > > > > This seems to be by far more friendly to both engineer & consumer > > > users. > > > > > > PC Engines APU2 product line > > > [http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2b2.htm] > > > > > > 1) How do the APU systems go as pricing to comparable systems from > > > other similar (industrial class, desktop enclosure) > > > manufacturers? > > > > I have two APU2C4 boards. > > I've never seen these in action, nor had chance to use any coreboot > device. I don't think this is has vanilla coreboot software on it either, given that it only has a serial port and no video output. This is the only coreboot device I have used. > > > The price is not bad, and the ALIX/APU boards are not loaded with > > consumer-grade "ooh, aah" bullet-point rubbish, unlike some of the > > VIA boards which are (quite worryingly) also marketed towards > > medical devices. > > The SuperMicro BIOS experience over serial port (the -F models have a > BMC/IMPI controller onboard) is not that great. It is the traditional > Award style BIOS transposed in a screen interface 1:1 without a proper > serial connection functionality factored in. It is not a serial BIOS, > it is serial exposed historic old school BIOS. Not necessarily bad, > it has borders, colours, much like servers from other commercial > vendors. This BIOS is 100% text-based, and it is a "what goes out stays out" approach as far as its UI is concerned. In my opinion, every single BIOS should be like this. Basically you need to make sure the serial console is connected before starting the system up, otherwise you'll end up missing the BIOS setup menu and the system will either be in the 10 second delay (that allows you to make a selection before it boots into the OS), or it will end up in the OS itself.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Fri, 24 Jun 2016 14:37:20 -0700 Chris Cappuccio > Jacob L. Leifman [jac...@bitwise.net] wrote: > > Is it possible to add more wired NICs to the APU? Alternatively, is > > there a comparably robust and OpenBSD supported low-wattage platform > > with at least 4 (and preferrably 5-6) NICs? > > It has two mini pci-e slots. Syba and others make a mini pci-e gigabit card. > That might work, but you'll have to modify the case. There are plenty of > boxes even faster, like supermicro SYS-E200-9B with 4 LAN (X11SBA-LN4F). See also the below 7 LAN system. Beware the fans are high pitch noisy higher static pressure (4cm). The CPU is 20W TDP rate Atom C2758. It has 7 on system GbE LAN ports + 1 IPMI GbE LAN port. I hate: they did not put an RS-232 Serial port above the VGA port. I have not used it, so can not provide any dmesg for this, and can't comment on price too. SuperMicro Server 1U SYS-5018A-TN7B [http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1U/5018/SYS-5018A-TN7B.cfm] SuperMicro Motherboard A1SRM-LN7F-2758 [http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Atom/X10/A1SRM-LN7F-2758.cfm] ServeTheHome 2014 Review A1SRM-LN7F-2758 [http://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-a1srm-ln7f-2758-review-awesome/] A 200W small form factor PSU may be ideal, if you can find a nice TFX. Some mini-ITX chassis have these included and make a nice case per se. There may be other 4+ GbE systems on the market w/o BMC for much less $, expect this to top 400 USD street price today and potential quirks. I would pick this board ANY day but NOT the chassis for (home) office. This is a huge overkill for the residential Internet offers, mind you. Another idea is to check for 4 port PCI cards and extend a -LN4 board.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Ted Unangst [t...@tedunangst.com] wrote: > Jacob L. Leifman wrote: > > Is it possible to add more wired NICs to the APU? Alternatively, is > > there a comparably robust and OpenBSD supported low-wattage platform > > with at least 4 (and preferrably 5-6) NICs? > > Walking on the wild side, I suppose something could be done with a > switch and vlans. Yeah, but now your switch is using ten times the power of your router.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Jacob L. Leifman wrote: > Is it possible to add more wired NICs to the APU? Alternatively, is > there a comparably robust and OpenBSD supported low-wattage platform > with at least 4 (and preferrably 5-6) NICs? Walking on the wild side, I suppose something could be done with a switch and vlans.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
On 2016-06-24, "Jacob L. Leifman" wrote: > Is it possible to add more wired NICs to the APU? Not really. You could add more ports with a mini-PCIe dual/quad NIC, but you would have to build your own case. The APU2 is at a very sweet price/performance spot *if* it fits your requirements. > Alternatively, is there a comparably robust and OpenBSD supported > low-wattage platform with at least 4 (and preferrably 5-6) NICs? There's the Soekris net6501, which has four NICs and a PCIe expansion slot. It's an old design, and compared to the APU2 even the fastest model has much less CPU and no AES-NI if you were thinking of doing IPsec. It is also much more expensive. https://soekris.com/products/net6501-1.html Rather more competitive designs are based on the Intel Rangeley (Atom C2000) SoCs, but these are also expensive: Adi Engineering and Netgate offer these: RCC-VE 2440 (4 ports). stsp@ has one, I think. https://www.netgate.com/products/rcc-ve-2440.html RCC-VE 4860 (6 ports) https://www.netgate.com/products/rcc-ve-4860.html Somebody recently mentioned the Lanner FW-7525: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=146576932210443&w=2 http://www.lannerinc.com/products/x86-network-appliances/x86-desktop-appliances/fw-7525 -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Jacob L. Leifman [jac...@bitwise.net] wrote: > Is it possible to add more wired NICs to the APU? Alternatively, is > there a comparably robust and OpenBSD supported low-wattage platform > with at least 4 (and preferrably 5-6) NICs? > It has two mini pci-e slots. Syba and others make a mini pci-e gigabit card. That might work, but you'll have to modify the case. There are plenty of boxes even faster, like supermicro SYS-E200-9B with 4 LAN (X11SBA-LN4F).
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Is it possible to add more wired NICs to the APU? Alternatively, is there a comparably robust and OpenBSD supported low-wattage platform with at least 4 (and preferrably 5-6) NICs? Thank you. On 24 Jun 2016 at 13:37, Chris Cappuccio wrote: > li...@wrant.com [li...@wrant.com] wrote: > > > > 1) How do the APU systems go as pricing to comparable systems from > > other similar (industrial class, desktop enclosure) manufacturers? > > > > The pricing direct from PC Engines is roughly 2x to 3x the cost > of certain cheap, popular ARM boards. It's on par or lower than > the pricing of the higher end ARM boards (some of which are supported > in the armv7 port) > > > 2) How is the OpenBSD experience on the APU systems, do they have serial > > RS232 console (serial BIOS), do they expose all the hardware to OpenBSD? > > > > Everything is exposed. The serial console requires boot.conf setup, > and Bob Beck recently fixed some aggressive behaviour in the boot loader > so that it no longer prints garbage characters on the screen during > the 'set tty com0' transition. Thank you Bob for spending the time to > track this annoying behaviour down ! > > Chris
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
li...@wrant.com [li...@wrant.com] wrote: > > 1) How do the APU systems go as pricing to comparable systems from > other similar (industrial class, desktop enclosure) manufacturers? > The pricing direct from PC Engines is roughly 2x to 3x the cost of certain cheap, popular ARM boards. It's on par or lower than the pricing of the higher end ARM boards (some of which are supported in the armv7 port) > 2) How is the OpenBSD experience on the APU systems, do they have serial > RS232 console (serial BIOS), do they expose all the hardware to OpenBSD? > Everything is exposed. The serial console requires boot.conf setup, and Bob Beck recently fixed some aggressive behaviour in the boot loader so that it no longer prints garbage characters on the screen during the 'set tty com0' transition. Thank you Bob for spending the time to track this annoying behaviour down ! Chris
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
bytevolc...@safe-mail.net [bytevolc...@safe-mail.net] wrote: > > In addition, the clips for the mSATA/mPCIe slots, given that the use of > metallic screw points would improve grounding to the devices and would > be a lot more robust and resilient against vibration; with screw posts, > there is the option of using rubber washers too. And, screw posts would > cost an order of magnitude less, considering the cost of assembly too. > The clips are really easy to use if you push them in and out with a tool. They are plenty resilient in my opinion, unless you bend the crap out of them... I had problems with the heat sink material and I just use zalman paint-brush heatsink paste on all units. If the heat sink material works properly, then the zalman is actually slightly higher temperature. Some units i've assembled with the heat sink material aren't stable, and the material comes out baked/cracked. I'm not sure why, and I just use paste and they work fine. > I have not had the opportunity to test the GPIO support though; the > watchdog timer is not supported by OpenBSD, so whatever you do, do not > enable the watchdog timer yet. > I have code for the GPIO. It uses extended configuration mode to peek/poke the GPIO registers on the nct5104d, which is not the preferred method. It needs to be converted to use the direct access through the GPIO register table (section 10.2 of the nct5104d datasheet) and needs to be a separate item from the wbsio driver, similar to lm. But the autoconf framework may need some adaptation here too. (These items are according to kettenis@) Chris
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:49 AM, Chris Cappuccio wrote: > The APU2 is a 4 core system while the APU1 is 2 core. The APU1 is actually > marginally faster at "openssl speed", per-core. The APU2 has USB3, better > ethernet. It also has an integrated CPU/chipset, which practically translates > to lower heat. APU2C4 -- 4GB ECC RAM which (together with points you already mentioned) makes it nice little server.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 04:30:39 +0300 li...@wrant.com wrote: > > What is more important is the level of engineering information > available from the manufacturer (PC Engines) web site including tech > specs, manual, BIOS updates, accessories, enclosures, diag boards and > also: Schematics! I certainly dig schematics! Don't forget, they use coreboot. > > This seems to be by far more friendly to both engineer & consumer > users. > > PC Engines APU2 product line > [http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2b2.htm] > > 1) How do the APU systems go as pricing to comparable systems from > other similar (industrial class, desktop enclosure) manufacturers? I have two APU2C4 boards. The price is not bad, and the ALIX/APU boards are not loaded with consumer-grade "ooh, aah" bullet-point rubbish, unlike some of the VIA boards which are (quite worryingly) also marketed towards medical devices. I am just a little disappointed in the way the components used are just the consumer/low-end commercial grade versions (0-70degC operating temps, etc). However, it certainly saves cost! In addition, the clips for the mSATA/mPCIe slots, given that the use of metallic screw points would improve grounding to the devices and would be a lot more robust and resilient against vibration; with screw posts, there is the option of using rubber washers too. And, screw posts would cost an order of magnitude less, considering the cost of assembly too. > > 2) How is the OpenBSD experience on the APU systems, do they have > serial RS232 console (serial BIOS), do they expose all the hardware > to OpenBSD? The serial (RS232) console is set up to use 115200 baud by default (I am unsure if this is changeable), so make sure this is in /etc/boot.conf: stty com0 115200 set tty com0 I would in fact recommend writing "installXX.fs" directly to a USB, and then mounting /dev/sd#a to edit boot.conf to add those lines in right at the top, before installing. It makes life easier. I have not had the opportunity to test the GPIO support though; the watchdog timer is not supported by OpenBSD, so whatever you do, do not enable the watchdog timer yet. > > Thank you for providing valuable technical feedback on these what > appears to be the smarter choice over the other low power devices. > It is definitely the smarter choice; on average, I notice around 5-6W consumption, although that does vary depending on load. The header pitches are 2.54mm too; this makes it very easy to obtain plugs to connect to these headers.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Fri, 24 Jun 2016 12:10:11 +1000 > On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 04:30:39 +0300 > li...@wrant.com wrote: > > > > What is more important is the level of engineering information > > available from the manufacturer (PC Engines) web site including tech > > specs, manual, BIOS updates, accessories, enclosures, diag boards and > > also: Schematics! > > I certainly dig schematics! Don't forget, they use coreboot. Yes, these are block diagrams of important sub-systems with chip pin-outs, signal names, voltages, logic arrangement. It's not the complete electric schematic diagram as in a service manual, and certainly not system design documentation, but is is engineering level sufficient and: public access! Comparing this to the paper manual I got with my expensive 2011 Atom D525 system board from SuperMicro, I found what I got lacking for my engineers purpose, despite having connector pin-outs and some voltages. Also, some time later I found out much cheaper Atom mini-ITX boards form competitors as a whole, I would have went with a PC Engines if I knew about them then. So, are you saying that coreboot is serial compatible BIOS? As in textual interface exposed on the serial port, and no menu like the other historic Award/Phoenix/Ami PC BIOS-es? Does it give access to all the BIOS options over the serial port as in pre-boot system set up via RS-232? None video and keyboard dependencies any more for complete system management? Is it? > > > > This seems to be by far more friendly to both engineer & consumer > > users. > > > > PC Engines APU2 product line > > [http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2b2.htm] > > > > 1) How do the APU systems go as pricing to comparable systems from > > other similar (industrial class, desktop enclosure) manufacturers? > > I have two APU2C4 boards. I've never seen these in action, nor had chance to use any coreboot device. > The price is not bad, and the ALIX/APU boards are not loaded with > consumer-grade "ooh, aah" bullet-point rubbish, unlike some of the VIA > boards which are (quite worryingly) also marketed towards medical > devices. The SuperMicro BIOS experience over serial port (the -F models have a BMC/IMPI controller onboard) is not that great. It is the traditional Award style BIOS transposed in a screen interface 1:1 without a proper serial connection functionality factored in. It is not a serial BIOS, it is serial exposed historic old school BIOS. Not necessarily bad, it has borders, colours, much like servers from other commercial vendors. It works, much better than compared to the KVM options you get with a dedicated server hosting plan, but is not susceptible to scripting, nor automation or anything computer (program) operated. It has a bug, that the sensors stop providing data over time and if you do not restart the BMC when you reboot you get a system unusable long beep unable to boot surprise, quite disappointing. A complete remote usage no-go. There is NO FIX, and the work around is to poll the BMC over IPMI and reboot the BMC if it gets to crash which is frequent. Expensive and trouble. It may not be happening on other systems, but for me it is just enough. I know of lots of other SuperMicro embedded and server mainboard quirks. Does a PC Engines APU have any quirks that we should know of in advance? > I am just a little disappointed in the way the components used are > just the consumer/low-end commercial grade versions (0-70degC operating > temps, etc). However, it certainly saves cost! Interesting, when you source sufficient enough amounts of components per order the price difference is negligible compared to the PCB fabrication. I definitely would not need the industrial / medical price tag for my gw. > In addition, the clips for the mSATA/mPCIe slots, given that the use of > metallic screw points would improve grounding to the devices and would > be a lot more robust and resilient against vibration; with screw posts, > there is the option of using rubber washers too. And, screw posts would > cost an order of magnitude less, considering the cost of assembly too. OK, it is not fit for vehicle mounting, yet those do not come with Ethernet ISP cabling :-) I suppose the device is quite fine for a tabletop enclosure. > > 2) How is the OpenBSD experience on the APU systems, do they have > > serial RS232 console (serial BIOS), do they expose all the hardware > > to OpenBSD? > > The serial (RS232) console is set up to use 115200 baud by default (I > am unsure if this is changeable), so make sure this is > in /etc/boot.conf: > > stty com0 115200 > set tty com0 > > I would in fact recommend writing "installXX.fs" directly to a USB, and > then mounting /dev/sd#a to edit boot.conf to add those lines in right > at the top, before installing. It makes life easier. > > I have not had the opportunity to test the GPIO support though; the > watchdog timer is not supported by OpenBSD, so whatever you do, do not > enable the watchdog timer yet. > > > Thank you f
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:49:20 -0700 Chris Cappuccio > li...@wrant.com [li...@wrant.com] wrote: > > > http://www.pcengines.ch provide machine using from 5W for alix to 12W > > > for APU. These number are value under full load, not idle. > > > > You know, these x86 machines in their space saving enclosures make the > > perfect quiet 24/7 home (office) tabletop gateway server system. Cool! > > Your other next best bet would be a mini-ITX quiet desk side disk cube. > > The APU is very powerful for its size and power consumption. With a decent > SSD it works as an NVR with UniFi video. It's a very fast router with > OpenBSD, 300-600Mbps depending on settings and usage with -current, or > 70kpps to 130kpps. I suspect that will go up as network stack modernization > continues. It's a great DHCP, DNS, NTP server for a network with 10,000+ > end devices. And future models (at similar power consumption) are > going to be faster. > > The APU2 is a 4 core system while the APU1 is 2 core. The APU1 is actually > marginally faster at "openssl speed", per-core. The APU2 has USB3, better > ethernet. It also has an integrated CPU/chipset, which practically translates > to lower heat. This is very impressive field usage info. This by far outperforms most other SFF (small form factor) SBC (single board computers) SoC (systems on chip) offers available today on the market. Up to the Atom systems? What is more important is the level of engineering information available from the manufacturer (PC Engines) web site including tech specs, manual, BIOS updates, accessories, enclosures, diag boards and also: Schematics! This seems to be by far more friendly to both engineer & consumer users. PC Engines APU2 product line [http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2b2.htm] 1) How do the APU systems go as pricing to comparable systems from other similar (industrial class, desktop enclosure) manufacturers? 2) How is the OpenBSD experience on the APU systems, do they have serial RS232 console (serial BIOS), do they expose all the hardware to OpenBSD? Thank you for providing valuable technical feedback on these what appears to be the smarter choice over the other low power devices.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
li...@wrant.com [li...@wrant.com] wrote: > > http://www.pcengines.ch provide machine using from 5W for alix to 12W > > for APU. These number are value under full load, not idle. > > You know, these x86 machines in their space saving enclosures make the > perfect quiet 24/7 home (office) tabletop gateway server system. Cool! > Your other next best bet would be a mini-ITX quiet desk side disk cube. The APU is very powerful for its size and power consumption. With a decent SSD it works as an NVR with UniFi video. It's a very fast router with OpenBSD, 300-600Mbps depending on settings and usage with -current, or 70kpps to 130kpps. I suspect that will go up as network stack modernization continues. It's a great DHCP, DNS, NTP server for a network with 10,000+ end devices. And future models (at similar power consumption) are going to be faster. The APU2 is a 4 core system while the APU1 is 2 core. The APU1 is actually marginally faster at "openssl speed", per-core. The APU2 has USB3, better ethernet. It also has an integrated CPU/chipset, which practically translates to lower heat.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
> http://www.pcengines.ch provide machine using from 5W for alix to 12W > for APU. These number are value under full load, not idle. You know, these x86 machines in their space saving enclosures make the perfect quiet 24/7 home (office) tabletop gateway server system. Cool! Your other next best bet would be a mini-ITX quiet desk side disk cube.
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
2016-06-23 3:52 GMT+02:00 Tuyosi Takesima : > Hi all . > > i now use arm linux as server . > because it needs 5W , so its cost as 24Hr server is very low > and > it's root can be put in hard disk , so big space can be get . > > where is the image of openbsd arm ? > ( raspberry pi , pine64 or other ) > --- > regards > http://www.pcengines.ch provide machine using from 5W for alix to 12W for APU. These number are value under full load, not idle. Those aren't ARM bord but well tester x86 machine, suited for industrial application. You might get some surprise if you put your raspberry pi in some extra loud environment. -- Cordialement, Coues Ludovic +336 148 743 42
Re: where is the image of openbsd arm ?
http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/armv7/ http://www.openbsd.org/armv7.html
where is the image of openbsd arm ?
Hi all . i now use arm linux as server . because it needs 5W , so its cost as 24Hr server is very low and it's root can be put in hard disk , so big space can be get . where is the image of openbsd arm ? ( raspberry pi , pine64 or other ) --- regards
