Re: ComixWall terminated
Yes, I think that's the point. It's just so sad that ComixWall will be terminated, in fact I doesn't use it, but it's a very nice thing what Soner Tari have achieved. It really could be an excellent port to the system, and being a port certainly would be more useful to OpenBSD as well. I agree with you. Fabio Almeida - Mensagem Original- De: Eric Furman ericfur...@fastmail.net Para: Mentesan mente...@gmail.com, OpenBSD Misc misc@openbsd.org Assunto: Re: ComixWall terminated Data: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:37:33 -0500 It is simple. ComixWall was a *Distribution*. It directly competes with OpenBSD. People could obtain ComixWall directly from his web site. This means *less* CD sales. CD sales are the main source of income for OpenBSD. Therefore ComixWall *hurts* OpenBSD. Theo's hostility is completely understandable. What do you people not get? If he wanted to create a GUI frontend for OpenBSD and then submit it as a port he would have been more than welcome, but instead he created a way of obtaining OpenBSD that completely circumvents the official site. This does *not* help OpenBSD in *any* way. Again, what do you people not get?? On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:35 -0200, Mentesan mente...@gmail.com wrote: Its so sad... Because of a lack of respect and a little humility all this shit is taking place. To make a mistake is human, to forgive is divine. Respect and honor for who deserve it. My best regards Fabio Almeida
Re: ComixWall terminated
Since when announcing is spam ? Being that the Comixwall is OpenBSD Why Theo don't announcing or put a link in the OpenBSD website to Comixwall website ? Why no think in the collective one ? 2009/12/12 J Sisson sisso...@gmail.com On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:54 PM, acam...@the00z.org wrote: This isn't about money, is about spam. Two separate issues, boss. 1) spam. Theo and the OpenBSD team own this list. Just because OpenBSD is free to use as you see fit doesn't mean the mailing lists are too. Theo said stop it, and the OP challenged Theo's decision. Theo had every right to be pissed. I'm not disagreeing there. 2) money. I was responding to a post about the OpenBSD team losing CD sales due to ComixWall. I fail to see how that doesn't concern money.
Re: ComixWall terminated
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:05 PM, dark knight neo knight@gmail.com wrote: Since when announcing is spam ? Being that the Comixwall is OpenBSD Why Theo don't announcing or put a link in the OpenBSD website to Comixwall website ? Why no think in the collective one ? Regardless of the words exchanged between both parties, you are thick and need some reading skills. Steph
Re: ComixWall terminated
Yes .. You have all the reason . I ask . THEO, Which the reason for not announce the Comixwall in the OpenBSD misc list ? I would like to understand. My best regards 2009/12/12 FRLinux frli...@gmail.com On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:05 PM, dark knight neo knight@gmail.com wrote: Since when announcing is spam ? Being that the Comixwall is OpenBSD Why Theo don't announcing or put a link in the OpenBSD website to Comixwall website ? Why no think in the collective one ? Regardless of the words exchanged between both parties, you are thick and need some reading skills. Steph
Re: ComixWall terminated
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 03:12:34PM -0200, dark knight neo wrote: Yes .. You have all the reason . Seriously, STFU. Take it offlist with individuals if you still have questions. -- Jason Dixon DixonGroup Consulting http://www.dixongroup.net/
Re: ComixWall terminated
Because it doesn't fucking belong there. How hard is that to get through your skull? Now go back to Norway. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 03:12:34PM -0200, dark knight neo wrote: Yes .. You have all the reason . I ask . THEO, Which the reason for not announce the Comixwall in the OpenBSD misc list ? I would like to understand. My best regards 2009/12/12 FRLinux frli...@gmail.com On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:05 PM, dark knight neo knight@gmail.com wrote: Since when announcing is spam ? Being that the Comixwall is OpenBSD Why Theo don't announcing or put a link in the OpenBSD website to Comixwall website ? Why no think in the collective one ? Regardless of the words exchanged between both parties, you are thick and need some reading skills. Steph
Re: ComixWall terminated
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 11:30:15AM -0600, Marco Peereboom wrote: Because it doesn't fucking belong there. How hard is that to get through your skull? Now go back to Norway. No, because then I have to deal with him. Send him to Iceland. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 03:12:34PM -0200, dark knight neo wrote: Yes .. You have all the reason . I ask . THEO, Which the reason for not announce the Comixwall in the OpenBSD misc list ? I would like to understand. My best regards 2009/12/12 FRLinux frli...@gmail.com On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:05 PM, dark knight neo knight@gmail.com wrote: Since when announcing is spam ? Being that the Comixwall is OpenBSD Why Theo don't announcing or put a link in the OpenBSD website to Comixwall website ? Why no think in the collective one ? Regardless of the words exchanged between both parties, you are thick and need some reading skills. Steph
Re: ComixWall terminated
Jacob Meuser skrev 2009-12-10 16:32: On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:21:34PM +, Michal wrote: So what...someone was wrong what was wrong here was Soner Tari posting private emails to a public mailing lists. There are a lot more abuse of the misc list than Soner posting about his OpenBSD project. Maybe Theo should install a decent spam filter for the lists ? Just a few of the recent ones: From: Commonwealth Bankmemberserv...@commonwealth.com.au To: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Commonwealth Bank of Australia Security Department Team. Date: 10 Dec 2009 15:47:59 -0800 From: Systat Software, Incnewversi...@systat.us To: misc@openbsd.orgmisc@openbsd.org Subject: SigmaPlot11.2 - NoCost Update Available Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:25:49 -0800 From: Akis Angelakisi...@image-a.gr To:misc@openbsd.org Subject: LIFE GOOD NEWSLETTER no 57 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:28:46 +0200 From: ma-boutique-deco.commaboutique-d...@my-deco-shop.com To: misc@openbsd.org Subject: =?utf-8?q?[blog_deco_et_design]_nouveaut=c3=a9s_my-deco-shop_-_m...@openbsd.org?= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:30:07 +0100 What's wrong with posting OpenBSD-related 'adverts', and in this special case with ComixWall which is totally free ? I agree with a lot of the other posts that ComixWall doesn't really promote OpenBSD in any way, but for those who are looking for a solution like the one that it provides, this distribution will save some hours of installation and compilation time. ...my 217 kronor of time... /PeO
Re: ComixWall terminated
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 10:19:38AM +0100, P-O Yliniemi wrote: Jacob Meuser skrev 2009-12-10 16:32: On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:21:34PM +, Michal wrote: So what...someone was wrong what was wrong here was Soner Tari posting private emails to a public mailing lists. There are a lot more abuse of the misc list than Soner posting about his OpenBSD project. Maybe Theo should install a decent spam filter for the lists ? Just a few of the recent ones: those aren't telling OpenBSD users which, except for the trolls, is probably the majority of readers of misc@, to use !OpenBSD, or to be more liberal, to use -stable (which arguably detracts from development on it's own) + some other bullshit that isn't supported by OpenBSD in any way. why is that so hard to understand? -- jake...@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
Re: ComixWall terminated
Its so sad... Because of a lack of respect and a little humility all this shit is taking place. To make a mistake is human, to forgive is divine. Respect and honor for who deserve it. My best regards Fabio Almeida
Re: ComixWall terminated
Am 11 Dec 2009 um 09:19 schrieb P-O Yliniemi: There are a lot more abuse of the misc list than Soner posting about his OpenBSD project. Maybe Theo should install a decent spam filter for the lists ? This is levelling down a distinction: there's spam that's definitely spam and can be filtered reasonably easily before or after being sent to the list. Sending something to the list that's not readily distinguishable from other content is no longer a problem for a spam filter, wherever it may sit. The fact that the list doesn't filter spam for you mechanically doesn't mean members shouldn't intervene against a different class of posting. What's wrong with posting OpenBSD-related 'adverts', and in this special case with ComixWall which is totally free ? Well, if the principle is that this list is to build and support community around OpenBSD, it's a question about what's considered acceptable conduct within the community. Clearly there are strong feelings on either side, but I gotta ask whether advertising a redistribution, where there's not a lot of evidence of other involvement in the community, doesn't at least come across as, at minimum, genuinely subject to question. We can disagree as to what the answer is, but the exceptional characteristics that make this a question don't just answer themselves by the kinds of characteristics or implications that have been argued in its favour. I agree with a lot of the other posts that ComixWall doesn't really promote OpenBSD in any way, but for those who are looking for a solution like the one that it provides, this distribution will save some hours of installation and compilation time. Sure, but how about substantial questions like code audits for the PHP code and determining processes and mechanisms for patching? Binary distribution may not be a sin in itself (I've come around to the opinion that it's largely oversold as to its benefits), but, particularly if it's claiming to carry the flag of simplification, one may nevertheless be circumspect about the approach and implementation, by people who've not otherwise established standing in the community and demonstrated the viability of their work in that context. I understand why people who've made sustained contributions to OpenBSD would not be happy with advertising a redistribution vexed by these kinds of questions. I've had enough experience with Unix engineering to have both sympathy for someone who does this kind of work independently of established community organs and a strong scepticism as to whether the product will be nearly as robust as advertised or imagined for lack of strong challenges and correctives from peers and existing centres of expertise. I can't think it reasonable to be so taken away with the sympathetic element of response as to overlook or underweight the strong prospect of flaws resulting from the approach taken, and I think it's adequate here that the issues be merely prospective, as vetting needs to happen before a product is announced as shipping. Conversely, with time spent talking about how you might solve the kinds of problems entailed by such project, developers have a decent chance of establishing credibility and the prospective quality of their project well enough that they wouldn't necessarily have to overload an existing channel to make release announcements. Alternatively, such developers would recognise some fundamental misconceptions and find other projects on which to expend their energies. My 2p, Buffer G. Overflow
Re: ComixWall terminated
Bayard Bell wrote: This is levelling down a distinction: there's spam that's definitely spam [evil cut] Conversely, with time spent talking ... time we wont get back, and that wont further either project. Net gain for everyone? 0.
Re: ComixWall terminated
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 11 Dec 2009 um 09:19 schrieb P-O Yliniemi: There are a lot more abuse of the misc list than Soner posting about his OpenBSD project. Maybe Theo should install a decent spam filter for the lists ? Just a few of the recent ones: From: Commonwealth Bankmemberserv...@commonwealth.com.au To: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Commonwealth Bank of Australia Security Department Team. Date: 10 Dec 2009 15:47:59 -0800 From: Systat Software, Incnewversi...@systat.us To: misc@openbsd.orgmisc@openbsd.org Subject: SigmaPlot11.2 - NoCost Update Available Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:25:49 -0800 From: Akis Angelakisi...@image-a.gr To:misc@openbsd.org Subject: LIFE GOOD NEWSLETTER no 57 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:28:46 +0200 From: ma-boutique-deco.commaboutique-d...@my-deco-shop.com To: misc@openbsd.org Subject: =?utf-8?q?[blog_deco_et_design]_nouveaut=c3=a9s_my-deco-shop_-_m...@openbsd.org?= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:30:07 +0100 This is levelling down a distinction: there's spam that's definitely spam and can be filtered reasonably easily before or after being sent to the list. Sending something to the list that's not readily distinguishable from other content is no longer a problem for a spam filter, wherever it may sit. What's wrong with posting OpenBSD-related 'adverts', and in this special case with ComixWall which is totally free ? Well, if the principle is that this list is to build and support community around OpenBSD, it's a question about what's considered appropriate conduct within the community. Clearly there are strong feelings on either side, but I gotta ask whether advertising a redistribution, where there's not a lot of evidence of other involvement in the community, doesn't at least come across as, at minimum, genuinely subject to question. You can disagree as to what the answer is, but the exceptional characteristics that make this a question don't just answer themselves by the kinds of characteristics or implications that have been argued in its favour. I agree with a lot of the other posts that ComixWall doesn't really promote OpenBSD in any way, but for those who are looking for a solution like the one that it provides, this distribution will save some hours of installation and compilation time. Sure, but how about substantial questions like code audits for the PHP code and determining processes and mechanisms for patching? Binary distribution may not be a sin in itself (I've come around to the opinion that it's largely oversold as to its benefits), but, particularly if it's claiming to carry the flag of simplification, one may nevertheless be circumspect about the approach and implementation, by people who've not otherwise established standing in the community. I've had enough experience with Unix engineering to have both sympathy for someone who does this kind of work independently of established community organs and a strong scepticism as to whether the product will be nearly as robust as advertised or imagined for lack of strong challenges and correctives from peers and existing centres of expertise. I certainly can't think it reasonable to be so taken away with the sympathetic element of response as to overlook or underweight the strong prospect of flaws resulting from the approach taken. Conversely, with time spent talking about how you might solve the kinds of problems entailed by such project, you'd have a decent chance of establishing your credibility and the prospective quality of your project well enough that you wouldn't have to overload an existing channel to make release announcements, no? ...my 217 kronor of time... /PeO iEYEARECAAYFAksiLBQACgkQcZQHT1XL9xkQ5ACgoF7xk2XHGkgYAJSWBEBBJnnX orgAnixN3QXb89yZiZQ0v6hSr6nS+jbn =UbvM -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: ComixWall terminated
It is simple. ComixWall was a *Distribution*. It directly competes with OpenBSD. People could obtain ComixWall directly from his web site. This means *less* CD sales. CD sales are the main source of income for OpenBSD. Therefore ComixWall *hurts* OpenBSD. Theo's hostility is completely understandable. What do you people not get? If he wanted to create a GUI frontend for OpenBSD and then submit it as a port he would have been more than welcome, but instead he created a way of obtaining OpenBSD that completely circumvents the official site. This does *not* help OpenBSD in *any* way. Again, what do you people not get?? On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:35 -0200, Mentesan mente...@gmail.com wrote: Its so sad... Because of a lack of respect and a little humility all this shit is taking place. To make a mistake is human, to forgive is divine. Respect and honor for who deserve it. My best regards Fabio Almeida
Re: ComixWall terminated
I think the follow about this: The OpenBSD project must and need to keep simple . The more important is not lost the focus of the security And OpenBSD by yourself already make this. Comixwall is only one frontend wrote in php to control some services such as Dansguardian . But no lost the focus of the security To me , it's all a big BULLSHIT Comixwall don't compete with OpenBSD because it is the OpenBSD 2009/12/11 Eric Furman ericfur...@fastmail.net It is simple. ComixWall was a *Distribution*. It directly competes with OpenBSD. People could obtain ComixWall directly from his web site. This means *less* CD sales. CD sales are the main source of income for OpenBSD. Therefore ComixWall *hurts* OpenBSD. Theo's hostility is completely understandable. What do you people not get? If he wanted to create a GUI frontend for OpenBSD and then submit it as a port he would have been more than welcome, but instead he created a way of obtaining OpenBSD that completely circumvents the official site. This does *not* help OpenBSD in *any* way. Again, what do you people not get?? On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:35 -0200, Mentesan mente...@gmail.com wrote: Its so sad... Because of a lack of respect and a little humility all this shit is taking place. To make a mistake is human, to forgive is divine. Respect and honor for who deserve it. My best regards Fabio Almeida
Re: ComixWall terminated
OK, I give up. You obviously have serious reading comprehension problems. On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:57 -0200, dark knight neo knight@gmail.com wrote: I think the follow about this: The OpenBSD project must and need to keep simple . The more important is not lost the focus of the security And OpenBSD by yourself already make this. Comixwall is only one frontend wrote in php to control some services such as Dansguardian . But no lost the focus of the security To me , it's all a big BULLSHIT Comixwall don't compete with OpenBSD because it is the OpenBSD 2009/12/11 Eric Furman ericfur...@fastmail.net It is simple. ComixWall was a *Distribution*. It directly competes with OpenBSD. People could obtain ComixWall directly from his web site. This means *less* CD sales. CD sales are the main source of income for OpenBSD. Therefore ComixWall *hurts* OpenBSD. Theo's hostility is completely understandable. What do you people not get? If he wanted to create a GUI frontend for OpenBSD and then submit it as a port he would have been more than welcome, but instead he created a way of obtaining OpenBSD that completely circumvents the official site. This does *not* help OpenBSD in *any* way. Again, what do you people not get?? On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:35 -0200, Mentesan mente...@gmail.com wrote: Its so sad... Because of a lack of respect and a little humility all this shit is taking place. To make a mistake is human, to forgive is divine. Respect and honor for who deserve it. My best regards Fabio Almeida
Re: ComixWall terminated
Eric Furman wrote: It is simple. ComixWall was a *Distribution*. It directly competes with OpenBSD. People could obtain ComixWall directly from his web site. This means *less* CD sales. CD sales are the main source of income for OpenBSD. Therefore ComixWall *hurts* OpenBSD. Theo's hostility is completely understandable. What do you people not get? If he wanted to create a GUI frontend for OpenBSD and then submit it as a port he would have been more than welcome, but instead he created a way of obtaining OpenBSD that completely circumvents the official site. This does *not* help OpenBSD in *any* way. Again, what do you people not get?? I've been following this thread with great interest, both sides had a point, but language was ugly. This makes it all very clear. I thought Theo was right, but this puts the problem right and clear. I agree 100% with this. Chris Bennett -- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -- Robert Heinlein
Re: ComixWall terminated
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Eric Furman ericfur...@fastmail.netwrote: It is simple. ComixWall was a *Distribution*. It directly competes with OpenBSD. People could obtain ComixWall directly from his web site. This means *less* CD sales. CD sales are the main source of income for OpenBSD. Therefore ComixWall *hurts* OpenBSD. Theo's hostility is completely understandable. What do you people not get? I could see two approaches here that are ok. The first has already been mentioned (create a port and submit it so everyone can benefit). The second approach would be to sell ComixWall CD's and donate at least the cost of the OpenBSD CD's to the OpenBSD project. Sure, that means ComixWall will cost $55+, but that way the OpenBSD team doesn't lose CD sales and ComixWall makes a little profit for writing the frontend.
Re: ComixWall terminated
J Sisson sisso...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Eric Furman ericfur...@fastmail.netwrote: It is simple. ComixWall was a *Distribution*. It directly competes with OpenBSD. People could obtain ComixWall directly from his web site. This means *less* CD sales. CD sales are the main source of income for OpenBSD. Therefore ComixWall *hurts* OpenBSD. Theo's hostility is completely understandable. What do you people not get? I could see two approaches here that are ok. The first has already been mentioned (create a port and submit it so everyone can benefit). The second approach would be to sell ComixWall CD's and donate at least the cost of the OpenBSD CD's to the OpenBSD project. Sure, that means ComixWall will cost $55+, but that way the OpenBSD team doesn't lose CD sales and ComixWall makes a little profit for writing the frontend. This isn't about money, is about spam. Please, finish the spam. DISCLAIMER: http://goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/ This message will self-destruct in 3 seconds.
Re: ComixWall terminated
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:54 PM, acam...@the00z.org wrote: This isn't about money, is about spam. Two separate issues, boss. 1) spam. Theo and the OpenBSD team own this list. Just because OpenBSD is free to use as you see fit doesn't mean the mailing lists are too. Theo said stop it, and the OP challenged Theo's decision. Theo had every right to be pissed. I'm not disagreeing there. 2) money. I was responding to a post about the OpenBSD team losing CD sales due to ComixWall. I fail to see how that doesn't concern money.
Re: ComixWall terminated
Soner Tari so...@comixwall.org writes: Due to unexpected reaction from the leader of the OpenBSD project (please read below), I am terminating the ComixWall project. Do you cut yourself when somebody yells at you just to show them? I will feel stupid continuing with this project while I am not even allowed to post its release announcements to the OpenBSD mailing lists. The point of extortion is to hurt someone else. Suicide bombing doesn't work when you do it in the middle of a desert. //art
Re: ComixWall terminated
So what...someone was wrong, someone's train of thought was wrong...so what? Someone posts something and it's the wrong place...ok, say this isn't the place and move on. If this person though they where helping and people think they are not...well they have a different opinion but really they haven't actually don't anything wrong. The way Theo spoke to them in the e-mail was quite rude and you could say oh well it's only words but then you can say oh well it's only an announcement. Ridiculing someone and telling them to get off the list is rude and unnecessary for someone who was only trying to help, whether they actually where or not, and whether they where right or wrong, in reality they didn't do any harm. We can all hold our hands up for being wrong, having a different opinion, sometimes doing things that are not helpful but you genuinely thought they where. This person, I don't think, had any intent to do anything but help. The harsh words from some people pushing them away is not needed, then ridiculing them when they want to terminate because of the way they have been spoken to is a sad loss. Some people are sensitive to the way people have spoken to them. Mocking them by coming out with gems like Do you cut yourself when somebody yells at you just to show them? is quite unnecessary.
Re: ComixWall terminated
Seriously, theo wtf ? Here is a packaged version of openbsd which doesn't ask for donations providing something which users clearly want. if you can't see that users come in many shapes and forms you are seriously *wrong*. I for one would suggest that comixwall moves to freebsd, due to hypocrisy and selfishness of openbsd as shown on this list. Openbsd slow masterbating monkies, Always late to the security party (how many years late for PIE ? etc.) 2009/12/10 Artur Grabowski a...@blahonga.org Soner Tari so...@comixwall.org writes: Due to unexpected reaction from the leader of the OpenBSD project (please read below), I am terminating the ComixWall project. Do you cut yourself when somebody yells at you just to show them? I will feel stupid continuing with this project while I am not even allowed to post its release announcements to the OpenBSD mailing lists. The point of extortion is to hurt someone else. Suicide bombing doesn't work when you do it in the middle of a desert. //art
Re: ComixWall terminated
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 3:19 PM, spamtester spamtester spamtesterspamtes...@gmail.com wrote: Seriously, theo wtf ? Openbsd slow masterbating monkies, Always late to the security party (how many years late for PIE ? etc.) nice troll
Re: ComixWall terminated
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:21:34PM +, Michal wrote: So what...someone was wrong what was wrong here was Soner Tari posting private emails to a public mailing lists. -- jake...@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
Re: ComixWall terminated
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:19 AM, spamtester spamtester spamtesterspamtes...@gmail.com wrote: if you can't see that users come in many shapes and forms you are seriously *wrong*. --- I think the point is that while users are very different, we should learn how things happen here and respect that by adjusting our behavior to better fit in. When privately asked not to do something, just be polite and honor the request. That's it. Brad
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
On Wed, Dec 09, 2009 at 06:31:05PM +0200, Soner Tari wrote: Due to unexpected reaction from the leader of the OpenBSD project (please read below), I am terminating the ComixWall project. I will keep the project server running until the end of this month. I might resurrect the project in the future with another host OS perhaps. I am going to unsubscribe from this list after posting this last message. He apparently prefers reading messages from 'pricks' (to use his terms) rather than release announcements from people trying to help. I'm not taking sides, but how exactly are you trying to help? The few times I've seen you post to misc@ have been to promote your own fork of OpenBSD, or to ask for help in getting your own stuff running. How exactly does this help the _OpenBSD_project_? -- Jason Dixon DixonGroup Consulting http://www.dixongroup.net/
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Jason Dixon ja...@dixongroup.net wrote: I'm not taking sides, but how exactly are you trying to help? B The few times I've seen you post to misc@ have been to promote your own fork of OpenBSD, or to ask for help in getting your own stuff running. B How exactly does this help the _OpenBSD_project_? COMIXWALL isn't a fork, its just a preinstalled configuration panel for OpenBSD and a collection of nice utilities. And considering (and no offence here) the COMIXWALL developers are enthusiasts not paid professional developers. So where's the harm asking some advice? After all lets face is some of the brightest minds in computer security lurk on this list and code for OpenBSD/OpenSSL. -- Opportunity is most often missed by people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Thomas Alva Edison Inventor of 1093 patents, including: The light bulb, phonogram and motion pictures.
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
This is a VERY sad day :( Personally I managed to convert quite a few people to using OpenBSD by coaxing an interest via COMIXWALL. A grand pity and unfortunately if I were you I'd probably have done the same :( OpenBSD is possibly the cleanest most delightful OS to work on and most definitely the most secure I have worked on but the attitudes of /some/ the core developers leave much to be desired. That said, will I stop using OpenBSD on my edge devices... HELL NO! There just isn't an alternative :( On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Soner Tari so...@comixwall.org wrote: Due to unexpected reaction from the leader of the OpenBSD project (please read below), I am terminating the ComixWall project. I will keep the project server running until the end of this month. I might resurrect the project in the future with another host OS perhaps. I am going to unsubscribe from this list after posting this last message. He apparently prefers reading messages from 'pricks' (to use his terms) rather than release announcements from people trying to help. Good luck, and goodbye... On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 09:04 -0700, Theo de Raadt wrote: On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 14:03 +0200, Soner Tari wrote: On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 10:29 +0200, Soner Tari wrote: On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 23:46 -0700, Theo de Raadt wrote: Don't you dare post that that to our lists again. I don't understand, what's the problem? If you think that I am making money out of ComixWall, you are completely wrong. I have not made a penny out of it, ever (this is just a homemade project by an OpenBSD enthusiast). In fact, I was doing this to help uninitiated people use OpenBSD, instead of something else. Is it so hard to believe? I can't believe what you just said... If you don't tell me that you were just joking, I have decided to terminate the ComixWall project. Given that my sole purpose was to help promote the use of OpenBSD, I will feel stupid continuing with this project while I am not even allowed to post its release announcements to the OpenBSD mailing lists. Take your advertisements OFF OUR LISTS -- Opportunity is most often missed by people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Thomas Alva Edison Inventor of 1093 patents, including: The light bulb, phonogram and motion pictures.
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
COMIXWALL isn't a fork, its just a preinstalled configuration panel for OpenBSD and a collection of nice utilities. And considering (and no offence here) the COMIXWALL developers are enthusiasts not paid professional developers. So where's the harm asking some advice? After all lets face is some of the brightest minds in computer security lurk on this list and code for OpenBSD/OpenSSL. So it belongs as a a port then. Not as a distibution - and not sending release announcements to OpenBSD lists. Do we see release announcements here for other new ports? Do we see release announcements on our lists for Firefox? The point is not whether comixwall is a good thing. While I'll debate the wisdom of advertising yourself as a seperate distribtion when really you are a set of configuration tools, the point is simple: * Release Announcements For things that are not OpenBSD do not belong on OpenBSD lists * - We don't tell people who have other ported applications that run on openbsd to spew every release announcement over our lists - why should ComixWall be any different? This should not be difficult to understand.
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
This is just silly. If you make a firewall distribution to promote OpenBSD instead of making a firewall distribution, your source of motivation is wrong. OpenBSD is free software. You are completely free to use it as a basis for your firewall distribution. The project, on the other hand, does not have to distribute your advertisements. Especially not for every release. You can start your own mailing list and post them there. A single post to misc@ might have been OK to inform potentially interested people. If your choice of OS is based on whether you can advertize on their list, the loss is yours. If I were making a firewall distribution I'd certainly choose the OS that suits the project techincally. In any case OpenBSD does not owe anything to you. Had they asked you to promote OpenBSD this way it would be different.
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Bob Beck b...@ualberta.ca wrote: the point is simple: * Release Announcements For things that are not OpenBSD do not belong on OpenBSD lists * In both quoted responses Theo specifically mentioned the lists and for the OP to quit posting ads. I thought the message was quite clear. I'm not sure how the OP missed that.
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:37:01 -0700 Bob Beck b...@ualberta.ca wrote: COMIXWALL isn't a fork, its just a preinstalled configuration panel for OpenBSD and a collection of nice utilities. So it belongs as a a port then. Not as a distibution - and not sending release announcements to OpenBSD lists. as you wish. let's call it a port. Do we see release announcements here for other new ports? I'm quite new to OpenBSD, but I already read a few NEW: and UPDATED: announcements on the -ports mailing list. Anyway, comixwall is not a part of the official ports tree. So the release announcements of comixwall should not go into the ports list either. I had a second look at the descriptions of the mailing lists: misc User questions and answers, general questions. This is the most active list. Please, read the FAQ and the installation documents, and see How to report a Problem before posting. advocacy Promoting the use of OpenBSD. Non-technical discussions in misc often get shunted here. So as I read this announcements of projects trying to promote OpenBSD can (and should) go into the advocacy list. misc is only for user questions, general questions. Asking for translators might fit in here. Still as comixwall is trying to promote OpenBSD the request may fit better into the advocacy list. The only problem is the advocacy list is quite dead. So the decision to post the announcement of ComixWall to the misc list does not seem too stupid to me. Do we see release announcements on our lists for Firefox? comixwall is developed to make using OpenBSD easier. It's only project goal is to prove that it is possible to create high quality, free and open source ISG based on OpenBSD (cited from the comixwall homepage). So I would say its relevance for OpenBSD users (the audience of this list) is much higher than firefox releases. * Release Announcements For things that are not OpenBSD do not belong on OpenBSD lists * - We don't tell people who have other ported applications that run on openbsd to spew every release announcement over our lists - why should ComixWall be any different? According to the archives at MARC there were exactly two release announcements of comixwall on this list. One in 2008 and one in 2009. This is not exactly the amount it takes to pollute a mailing list. This stupid thread did already produce enough noise to make up for 7 years of comixwall release announcements. I know I just added some additional noise, still I would be glad to see this issue settled in a non-destructive way. OpenBSD is a great OS and ComixWall enables many people to use it. I don't see any reason why the two projects should not be able to cooperate. Christopher Zimmermann
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
On Wed, Dec 09, 2009 at 07:26:39PM +0100, Christopher Zimmermann wrote: I'm quite new to OpenBSD, but I already read a few NEW: and UPDATED: announcements on the -ports mailing list. misc != ports The only problem is the advocacy list is quite dead. So the decision to post the announcement of ComixWall to the misc list does not seem too stupid to me. ComixWall != OpenBSD Do we see release announcements on our lists for Firefox? comixwall is developed to make using OpenBSD easier. It's How does the announcement of new releases for ComixWall help OpenBSD? How does abstraction of arguably the cleanest, easiest to learn UNIX, help OpenBSD? According to the archives at MARC there were exactly two release announcements of comixwall on this list. One in 2008 and one in 2009. This is not exactly the amount it takes to pollute a mailing list. That doesn't make it right. This stupid thread did already produce enough noise to make up for 7 years of comixwall release announcements. Pat yourself on the back. I know I just added some additional noise, still I would be glad to see this issue settled in a non-destructive way. It is settled. You're whining. OpenBSD is a great OS and ComixWall enables many people to use it. I don't see any reason why the two projects should not be able to cooperate. Because they are not cooperative projects. OpenBSD doesn't need ComixWall. OpenBSD is Free, Functional and Secure(*). (*) And easy. -- Jason Dixon DixonGroup Consulting http://www.dixongroup.net/
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Christopher Zimmermann madro...@zakweb.de wrote: Do we see release announcements here for other new ports? I'm quite new to OpenBSD, but I already read a few NEW: and UPDATED: announcements on the -ports mailing list. This is the misc list, not the ports list. They are different. And if you looked at those mails, you would see that they had ports attached, not links to openbsd distributions including the port. Anyway, comixwall is not a part of the official ports tree. So the release announcements of comixwall should not go into the ports list either. If you make a port of something new, you mail it to ports with a subject of NEW. If you update a port, you use a subject of UPDATED. In either case, a port or diff should be attached. If it's not a port and there's no attachment, then you are correct, it doesn't belong on ports either.
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 13:38:56 -0500 Jason Dixon ja...@dixongroup.net wrote: How does the announcement of new releases for ComixWall help OpenBSD? It helps in promoting OpenBSD. And this is the official purpose of the advocasy mailing list. So I think that announcements of ComixWall releases could go into the advocasy list. Is this a false conclusion? If not Soner Tari could go on with his project and post his announcements to the advocacy list. Anyway, since the advocascy list is dead, the two announcements to misc should not be censured in such a harsh way. How does abstraction of arguably the cleanest, easiest to learn UNIX, help OpenBSD? It helps in promoting OpenBSD. Promoting OpenBSD will make OpenBSD more widely known. This will attract more possible developers. They will write code for OpenBSD. This will help OpenBSD. I know I just added some additional noise, still I would be glad to see this issue settled in a non-destructive way. It is settled. You're whining. If this is true, it's a pity. Then comixwall just died. I still hope this issue can be settled in a NON-DESTRUCTIVE way. And yes. I AM WHINING. It bothers me when people destroy such a huge amount of good work just because of a stupid attack of bad mood. OpenBSD is a great OS and ComixWall enables many people to use it. I don't see any reason why the two projects should not be able to cooperate. Because they are not cooperative projects. OpenBSD doesn't need ComixWall. OpenBSD is Free, Functional and Secure(*). (*) And easy. Right. And the devil may care. Not helping comixwall by bearing one release announcement per year is not lazy, not even selfish, its just PLAIN FUCKING STUPID!
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
On Wednesday 09 December 2009 5:01:05 pm Christopher Zimmermann wrote: On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 13:38:56 -0500 Jason Dixon ja...@dixongroup.net wrote: How does the announcement of new releases for ComixWall help OpenBSD? It helps in promoting OpenBSD. And this is the official purpose of the advocasy mailing list. So I think that announcements of ComixWall releases could go into the advocasy list. Is this a false conclusion? If not Soner Tari could go on with his project and post his announcements to the advocacy list. Anyway, since the advocascy list is dead, the two announcements to misc should not be censured in such a harsh way. +1 How does abstraction of arguably the cleanest, easiest to learn UNIX, help OpenBSD? It helps in promoting OpenBSD. Promoting OpenBSD will make OpenBSD more widely known. This will attract more possible developers. They will write code for OpenBSD. This will help OpenBSD. +1 I know I just added some additional noise, still I would be glad to see this issue settled in a non-destructive way. It is settled. You're whining. If this is true, it's a pity. Then comixwall just died. I still hope this issue can be settled in a NON-DESTRUCTIVE way. +1 And yes. I AM WHINING. It bothers me when people destroy such a huge amount of good work just because of a stupid attack of bad mood. OpenBSD is a great OS and ComixWall enables many people to use it. I don't see any reason why the two projects should not be able to cooperate. Because they are not cooperative projects. OpenBSD doesn't need ComixWall. OpenBSD is Free, Functional and Secure(*). (*) And easy. Right. And the devil may care. Not helping comixwall by bearing one release announcement per year is not lazy, not even selfish, its just PLAIN FUCKING STUPID! And I have to agree with that one too ... Best Regards Gonzalo Nemmi
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
On 20:01, Wed 09 Dec 09, Christopher Zimmermann wrote: On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 13:38:56 -0500 Jason Dixon ja...@dixongroup.net wrote: It helps in promoting OpenBSD. Promoting OpenBSD will make OpenBSD more widely known. This will attract more possible developers. They will write code for OpenBSD. This will help OpenBSD. No. It helps promoting ComixWall and it will attract people to ComixWall and those people will contribute to ComixWall. While rereading that I see 'ComixWall' three times, and OpenBSD 0 times. I know I just added some additional noise, still I would be glad to see this issue settled in a non-destructive way. It is settled. You're whining. If this is true, it's a pity. Then comixwall just died. I still hope this issue can be settled in a NON-DESTRUCTIVE way. And yes. I AM WHINING. It bothers me when people destroy such a huge amount of good work just because of a stupid attack of bad mood. OpenBSD is a great OS and ComixWall enables many people to use it. I don't see any reason why the two projects should not be able to cooperate. Because they are not cooperative projects. OpenBSD doesn't need ComixWall. OpenBSD is Free, Functional and Secure(*). (*) And easy. Right. And the devil may care. Not helping comixwall by bearing one release announcement per year is not lazy, not even selfish, its just PLAIN FUCKING STUPID! Telling us that ComixWall makes it possible to use OpenBSD is stupid. Now quit wasting your time and download a insert major linux distro that comes with a shitload of 'user friendly' wizards iso. -- Michiel van Baak mich...@vanbaak.eu http://michiel.vanbaak.eu GnuPG key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x71C946BD Why is it drug addicts and computer aficionados are both called users?
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Christopher Zimmermann madro...@zakweb.de wrote: It helps in promoting OpenBSD. Promoting OpenBSD will make OpenBSD more widely known. This will attract more possible developers. They will write code for OpenBSD. This will help OpenBSD. If OpenBSD is hard to use, people should work to make it easier to use. That way everybody benefits, not just the lucky few who get to use the easy distro. Imagine if instead of people contributing device drivers to OpenBSD, they made a unique distro that was OpenBSD + a driver.
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Christopher Zimmermann madro...@zakweb.dewrote: If this is true, it's a pity. Then comixwall just died. Theo told Soner to cease. Soner came back with if you don't tell me you were just joking, I'm going to terminate the Comixwall project. It was Soner's choice. He threw his ass like a 5 year old. Comixwall just died because Soner couldn't take being told to do things differently, not because of the attitude of Theo and the OpenBSD devs. If you're looking for something to point at and call stupid, I'd say Soner's decision is a good starting place.
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
2009/12/9 Christopher Zimmermann madro...@zakweb.de: On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 13:38:56 -0500 Jason Dixon ja...@dixongroup.net wrote: How does the announcement of new releases for ComixWall help OpenBSD? It helps in promoting OpenBSD. And this is the official purpose of the advocasy mailing list. I seriously doubt that Theo sells any cd more because of ComixWall. And sale of cds is what ultimately counts as promoting OpenBSD. I can't find Tari's name on http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html, nor can I find a link to there from http://comixwall.org While I applaud him for his effort and think this is a great thing, he hides OpenBSD quite well. Anyway, since the advocascy list is dead, the two announcements to misc should not be censured in such a harsh way. Indeed. I applaud Theo for implementing a zero-tolerance-for-spam policy on the mailing lists. :-) I still hope this issue can be settled in a NON-DESTRUCTIVE way. Same here. The efforts of Comixwall should be folded into OpenBSD. (*) And easy. :-))) Best Martin
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
So .. in the end, the fact that ComixWall uses OpenBSD as it's fundation, _does_ help promote OpenBSD use and expand it's user base Bullshit. Please get this off our lists.
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
On Wednesday 09 December 2009 5:25:59 pm Michiel van Baak wrote: On 20:01, Wed 09 Dec 09, Christopher Zimmermann wrote: On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 13:38:56 -0500 Jason Dixon ja...@dixongroup.net wrote: It helps in promoting OpenBSD. Promoting OpenBSD will make OpenBSD more widely known. This will attract more possible developers. They will write code for OpenBSD. This will help OpenBSD. No. It helps promoting ComixWall and it will attract people to ComixWall and those people will contribute to ComixWall. See there Michiel .. beauty lies in the eye of the beholder .. that's you opinion ... and by no means it's authoritative .. nor anything close to it. Whether it helps promoting ComixWall or not is debatable .. but that OpenBSD is the underlying OS said software is a fact. Now, regardless of the ComixWall promoting benefits of a couple of mails sent the (maybe, maybe not) the wrong list, the fact is that ComixWall users .. are actually OpenBSD users .. just as much as FreeNAS or PC-BSD users, are actually FreeBSD users ... So .. in the end, the fact that ComixWall uses OpenBSD as it's fundation, _does_ help promote OpenBSD use and expand it's user base ... just as BSDAnywhere _does_ help promote OpenBSD use and expand it's user base ... just as liveusb-openbsd _does_ help promote OpenBSD use and expand it's user base, and so on .. While rereading that I see 'ComixWall' three times, and OpenBSD 0 times. Well then .. read the paragraph I just wrote for you .. it says OpenBSD a lot of times :) I know I just added some additional noise, still I would be glad to see this issue settled in a non-destructive way. It is settled. You're whining. If this is true, it's a pity. Then comixwall just died. I still hope this issue can be settled in a NON-DESTRUCTIVE way. And yes. I AM WHINING. It bothers me when people destroy such a huge amount of good work just because of a stupid attack of bad mood. OpenBSD is a great OS and ComixWall enables many people to use it. I don't see any reason why the two projects should not be able to cooperate. Because they are not cooperative projects. OpenBSD doesn't need ComixWall. OpenBSD is Free, Functional and Secure(*). (*) And easy. Right. And the devil may care. Not helping comixwall by bearing one release announcement per year is not lazy, not even selfish, its just PLAIN FUCKING STUPID! Telling us that ComixWall makes it possible to use OpenBSD is stupid. Uhm .. nobody ever said that .. you must have read it wrong ... or you are just .. well .. you know .. Now quit wasting your time and download a insert major linux distro that comes with a shitload of 'user friendly' wizards iso. Why would anybody want to do that? Aren't we all UNIX users? There's PC-BSD for that matter .. or FreeBSD if you feel so inclined .. no need to resort to Linux .. which is a whole different thing Michiel ... that was quite a lousy shot there .. Best Regards Gonzalo Nemmi
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:43:59 +0100 Martin Schr__der mar...@oneiros.de wrote: 2009/12/9 Christopher Zimmermann madro...@zakweb.de: On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 13:38:56 -0500 Jason Dixon ja...@dixongroup.net wrote: How does the announcement of new releases for ComixWall help OpenBSD? It helps in promoting OpenBSD. And this is the official purpose of the advocasy mailing list. I seriously doubt that Theo sells any cd more because of ComixWall. And sale of cds is what ultimately counts as promoting OpenBSD. I can't find Tari's name on http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html, nor can I find a link to there from http://comixwall.org While I applaud him for his effort and think this is a great thing, he hides OpenBSD quite well. He links several times to openbsd. Try clicking on the OpenBSD 4.6 cover displayed on the main page. Since Soner Tari does not sell his project he could easily link to the donations page if asked. I still hope this issue can be settled in a NON-DESTRUCTIVE way. Same here. The efforts of Comixwall should be folded into OpenBSD. Now that would be great of course. Do you think it would be possible to distribute comixwall as several ports in the ports tree? Only installation would become a bit more difficult. But this should not be a big deal. It's just a pity that the constructive proposals come only after people already gave up
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
On Wed, Dec 09, 2009 at 08:01:05PM +0100, Christopher Zimmermann wrote: How does abstraction of arguably the cleanest, easiest to learn UNIX, help OpenBSD? It helps in promoting OpenBSD. Promoting OpenBSD will make OpenBSD more widely known. This will attract more possible developers. They will write code for OpenBSD. This will help OpenBSD. This is ridiculous.
Re: ComixWall terminated [WAS: ComixWall 4.6 released, December 8, 2009]
Am 9 Dec 2009 um 19:01 schrieb Christopher Zimmermann: On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 13:38:56 -0500 Jason Dixon ja...@dixongroup.net wrote: How does the announcement of new releases for ComixWall help OpenBSD? It helps in promoting OpenBSD. And this is the official purpose of the advocasy mailing list. So I think that announcements of ComixWall releases could go into the advocasy list. Is this a false conclusion? If not Soner Tari could go on with his project and post his announcements to the advocacy list. Anyway, since the advocascy list is dead, the two announcements to misc should not be censured in such a harsh way. The premise that this is advocacy may be entirely mistaken, as it does not strike me as a strong argument in favour of OpenBSD to say that it needs to be redistributed with an alternate installer, a web GUI, and some additional software builds to be *really* useful than as released by the core development community. Might it not be the case that the existing packages and ports system already makes OpenBSD a fully FOSS and freely available UTM firewall or that improving support for what's bundled with ComixWall to make more components available as packages and/or ports would be offer greater flexibility in how people decide to acquire and deploy the product, more effectively supporting and growing the community? This creates a problem of due recognition and attribution, which is what's feeding all the moments of dispute and misunderstanding that follow. How does abstraction of arguably the cleanest, easiest to learn UNIX, help OpenBSD? It helps in promoting OpenBSD. Promoting OpenBSD will make OpenBSD more widely known. This will attract more possible developers. They will write code for OpenBSD. This will help OpenBSD. These conclusions are tenuous leaps, amounting to a secret sauce argument: OpenBSD tastes good, but with the secret sauce it would be able attract all kinds of smart people it somehow can't attract with its current recipe. This logic of supplementarity rather makes the supplement the essential thing rather than the essential thing that it's supposed to promote, and that seems to sell what OpenBSD already is and its ability to continue to evolve as a technology, a development process, and a series of communities short. Not even prospectively can the proposition that there is no ComixWall without OpenBSD be not made reversible in the way you seem to suggest, any more than supporting a redistribution on premises overstated with respect to the OpenBSD core will amount to support in various forms getting back to OpenBSD per se. You say grafting, I say grifting. I know I just added some additional noise, still I would be glad to see this issue settled in a non-destructive way. It is settled. You're whining. If this is true, it's a pity. Then comixwall just died. I still hope this issue can be settled in a NON-DESTRUCTIVE way. And yes. I AM WHINING. It bothers me when people destroy such a huge amount of good work just because of a stupid attack of bad mood. Sorry if I'm repeating myself for a moment here, but isn't imagining ComixWall as a (or the) vital supplement to OpenBSD in the way you're suggesting selling a huge amount of very far good work short? I find myself able to reach that conclusion without being seized by a fit of pique, but I can imagine having good reason to be angry at the suggestion, the more so if I was one of the people with a sustained record of contribution to the project. If there's an attack that's happened, it may be a stupid, but that's as far as the agreed facts go. I'm sure you mean well, but I for one don't follow your account of what's destruction and what's supportive here. If the question is how to do better, the prospects for improvement are substantially reduced if one fails to grasp what has succeeded thus far. OpenBSD is a great OS and ComixWall enables many people to use it. I don't see any reason why the two projects should not be able to cooperate. Because they are not cooperative projects. OpenBSD doesn't need ComixWall. OpenBSD is Free, Functional and Secure(*). (*) And easy. Right. And the devil may care. Not helping comixwall by bearing one release announcement per year is not lazy, not even selfish, its just PLAIN FUCKING STUPID! As for the devil, aren't those the details the difference between Faust I lines 4611 and 4612? OpenBSD doesn't face Gretchen's problems, and overstating self-deprecation in the name of self-promotion seems more rather than less stupid, even if these indulgences are limited to a few annual episodes. Oh, the sauce! If the complaint here is that there's something overwrought, it seems ironic in not quite the right way to be so overwrought in response. If I've poked you with a stick here it's aimed at ticklish spots so that we might now take a moment to have a chuckle and then get back on track.
