Re: using ssh to forward the install console
On 12/14/2011 02:43 AM, Stuart Henderson wrote: On 2011-12-14, Sean Kamathkam...@moultingpenguin.com wrote: On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Chris Bennett wrote: this is the setup I use to upgrade and install on my remote server. It works great. This would probably be a good purchase since you could use it again in the future on other, later systems. Chris Bennett I use something similar: http://us.adder.com/products/adderlink-ipeps The run RealVNC on 'em, and cost a touch more, around $400. You can have multiple sessions, so up to 4 people can see the console at any given time. I find they work well. While these can be useful for remote installs, the bitmap display from vnc isn't really useful with a screen reader (which is what this thread was asking about). Oh. I was under the impression that he was going to get assistance for the initial install. But do screen readers require data to be sent over serial? I would thing that current ones would be able to deal with GUIs (using some sort of OCR, maybe), though I admit don't know the least bit about them. --C
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
On 12/10/2011 11:26 PM, Eric Oyen wrote: oh yeah. forgot about those. I had one on an old firewall box. unfortunately, it was the old ISA bus and all my current machines are pci-e. thanks for the reminder. -eric On Dec 10, 2011, at 10:15 PM, Corey wrote: On 12/07/2011 01:47 PM, Eric Oyen wrote: hello group. I have an interesting (and fairly technical) question. the question is: how can I forward the install screen via ssh to another machine on my network? I ask this because I didn't see any specific instructions that applied. my issue right now is that I need a sighted assistant to read me the screen and help with installing the base system (and setting up ssh). I would like to run the install like from a serial port output (like the old spark pizza boxes) but none of my current machines have a serial port to do this on. comments? suggestions? -eric If you don't require the serial console, maybe you can use an IP KVM appliance? They still cost some money, but the cheapest one I've found is on sale for $200 US right now: http://www.lantronix.com/it-management/kvm-over-ip/securelinx-spiderduo.html It's basically an embedded OS (Linux, probably) running on an ARM or something with a frame grabber for the video and USB and legacy keyboard and mouse ports. Gives you BIOS-level access to the box over what looks like a custom VNC implementation, and it can be tunneled over SSH. Most can also access a serial port, but that may be moot in this case if you have the video output. They're not perfect, but probably enough to get an install done. Corey Bus doesn't matter. These are external devices that plug into the VGA and USB or legacy keyboard and mouse ports on the back of the machine to be remotely controlled. However, someone else on the list later informed me that you were wanting to use a screen reader for this. The devices I mentioned use VNC or a VNC-like interface as a client, which is essentially a bitmapped display (X or fullscreen). Not knowing exactly how screen readers work, I don't know if they would work with a screen reader on the client end. --C
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Chris Bennett wrote: this is the setup I use to upgrade and install on my remote server. It works great. This would probably be a good purchase since you could use it again in the future on other, later systems. Chris Bennett I use something similar: http://us.adder.com/products/adderlink-ipeps The run RealVNC on 'em, and cost a touch more, around $400. You can have multiple sessions, so up to 4 people can see the console at any given time. I find they work well. Sean On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 11:15:15PM -0600, Corey wrote: On 12/07/2011 01:47 PM, Eric Oyen wrote: hello group. I have an interesting (and fairly technical) question. the question is: how can I forward the install screen via ssh to another machine on my network? I ask this because I didn't see any specific instructions that applied. my issue right now is that I need a sighted assistant to read me the screen and help with installing the base system (and setting up ssh). I would like to run the install like from a serial port output (like the old spark pizza boxes) but none of my current machines have a serial port to do this on. comments? suggestions? -eric If you don't require the serial console, maybe you can use an IP KVM appliance? They still cost some money, but the cheapest one I've found is on sale for $200 US right now: http://www.lantronix.com/it-management/kvm-over-ip/securelinx-spiderduo.html It's basically an embedded OS (Linux, probably) running on an ARM or something with a frame grabber for the video and USB and legacy keyboard and mouse ports. Gives you BIOS-level access to the box
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
On 2011-12-14, Sean Kamath kam...@moultingpenguin.com wrote: On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Chris Bennett wrote: this is the setup I use to upgrade and install on my remote server. It works great. This would probably be a good purchase since you could use it again in the future on other, later systems. Chris Bennett I use something similar: http://us.adder.com/products/adderlink-ipeps The run RealVNC on 'em, and cost a touch more, around $400. You can have multiple sessions, so up to 4 people can see the console at any given time. I find they work well. While these can be useful for remote installs, the bitmap display from vnc isn't really useful with a screen reader (which is what this thread was asking about).
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Stuart Henderson s...@spacehopper.org wrote: On 2011-12-14, Sean Kamath kam...@moultingpenguin.com wrote: On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Chris Bennett wrote: this is the setup I use to upgrade and install on my remote server. It works great. This would probably be a good purchase since you could use it again in the future on other, later systems. Chris Bennett I use something similar: http://us.adder.com/products/adderlink-ipeps The run RealVNC on 'em, and cost a touch more, around $400. You can have multiple sessions, so up to 4 people can see the console at any given time. I find they work well. While these can be useful for remote installs, the bitmap display from vnc isn't really useful with a screen reader (which is what this thread was asking about). In the end, I think a custom installer based on yaifo would do the trick... ciao, David
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
On 2011-12-14 09.43, Stuart Henderson wrote: On 2011-12-14, Sean Kamath kam...@moultingpenguin.com wrote: On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Chris Bennett wrote: this is the setup I use to upgrade and install on my remote server. It works great. This would probably be a good purchase since you could use it again in the future on other, later systems. Chris Bennett http://us.adder.com/products/adderlink-ipeps The run RealVNC on 'em, and cost a touch more, around $400. You can have multiple sessions, so up to 4 people can see the console at any given time. I find they work well. While these can be useful for remote installs, the bitmap display from vnc isn't really useful with a screen reader (which is what this thread was asking about). That depends, really. I've got three visually impaired (well, more or less blind) aunts, and while they all use screen readers that pick up text widgets and convert them to braille, the two with most residual vision left also use screen magnification as a tool to be able to see what's going on on the screen. I don't know how much, if anything, Eric sees, but this *might* be an option if the VNC client is run on a terminal with magnification capability. Regards, /Benny -- internetlabbet.se / work: +46 8 551 124 80 / Words must Benny Lofgren/ mobile: +46 70 718 11 90 / be weighed, / fax:+46 8 551 124 89/not counted. /email: benny -at- internetlabbet.se
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
this is the setup I use to upgrade and install on my remote server. It works great. This would probably be a good purchase since you could use it again in the future on other, later systems. Chris Bennett On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 11:15:15PM -0600, Corey wrote: On 12/07/2011 01:47 PM, Eric Oyen wrote: hello group. I have an interesting (and fairly technical) question. the question is: how can I forward the install screen via ssh to another machine on my network? I ask this because I didn't see any specific instructions that applied. my issue right now is that I need a sighted assistant to read me the screen and help with installing the base system (and setting up ssh). I would like to run the install like from a serial port output (like the old spark pizza boxes) but none of my current machines have a serial port to do this on. comments? suggestions? -eric If you don't require the serial console, maybe you can use an IP KVM appliance? They still cost some money, but the cheapest one I've found is on sale for $200 US right now: http://www.lantronix.com/it-management/kvm-over-ip/securelinx-spiderduo.html It's basically an embedded OS (Linux, probably) running on an ARM or something with a frame grabber for the video and USB and legacy keyboard and mouse ports. Gives you BIOS-level access to the box
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
On 12/07/2011 01:47 PM, Eric Oyen wrote: hello group. I have an interesting (and fairly technical) question. the question is: how can I forward the install screen via ssh to another machine on my network? I ask this because I didn't see any specific instructions that applied. my issue right now is that I need a sighted assistant to read me the screen and help with installing the base system (and setting up ssh). I would like to run the install like from a serial port output (like the old spark pizza boxes) but none of my current machines have a serial port to do this on. comments? suggestions? -eric If you don't require the serial console, maybe you can use an IP KVM appliance? They still cost some money, but the cheapest one I've found is on sale for $200 US right now: http://www.lantronix.com/it-management/kvm-over-ip/securelinx-spiderduo.html It's basically an embedded OS (Linux, probably) running on an ARM or something with a frame grabber for the video and USB and legacy keyboard and mouse ports. Gives you BIOS-level access to the box over what looks like a custom VNC implementation, and it can be tunneled over SSH. Most can also access a serial port, but that may be moot in this case if you have the video output. They're not perfect, but probably enough to get an install done. Corey
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
oh yeah. forgot about those. I had one on an old firewall box. unfortunately, it was the old ISA bus and all my current machines are pci-e. thanks for the reminder. -eric On Dec 10, 2011, at 10:15 PM, Corey wrote: On 12/07/2011 01:47 PM, Eric Oyen wrote: hello group. I have an interesting (and fairly technical) question. the question is: how can I forward the install screen via ssh to another machine on my network? I ask this because I didn't see any specific instructions that applied. my issue right now is that I need a sighted assistant to read me the screen and help with installing the base system (and setting up ssh). I would like to run the install like from a serial port output (like the old spark pizza boxes) but none of my current machines have a serial port to do this on. comments? suggestions? -eric If you don't require the serial console, maybe you can use an IP KVM appliance? They still cost some money, but the cheapest one I've found is on sale for $200 US right now: http://www.lantronix.com/it-management/kvm-over-ip/securelinx-spiderduo.html It's basically an embedded OS (Linux, probably) running on an ARM or something with a frame grabber for the video and USB and legacy keyboard and mouse ports. Gives you BIOS-level access to the box over what looks like a custom VNC implementation, and it can be tunneled over SSH. Most can also access a serial port, but that may be moot in this case if you have the video output. They're not perfect, but probably enough to get an install done. Corey
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
ok, that is some new info I didn't have. it is going to have to wait for a few months though as I have no spare funds. still, though, it is still considerably than the $300+ I would have had to spend on a new MB/daughterboard, ram and cpu. -eric On Dec 8, 2011, at 12:19 AM, James Shupe wrote: Depending on your application, an older HP DL140 or DL145 G3 may work. They have iLo 100, which includes serial console redirection, and can be had on Ebay for around a hundred bucks. They're still nice with dual dual core Xeon or Opterons and up to 32Gb RAM. On Wed, 2011-12-07 at 21:54 -0700, Eric Oyen wrote: no kidding about the expensive part. a stand alone unit (designed for a pci-e or pci-x slot) can be generally more expensive than purchasing a server grade motherboard with an associated daughter board management device. Tyan microcomputer makes a reasonably priced MB with a separate daughter board (sold separately). my only issue is going to be getting the funds to do this. -eric On Dec 7, 2011, at 6:57 PM, Bryan wrote: I have one, and no, it doesn't work. Not until after the system is installed. The only option I think might hold promise (but it's gonna cost) is one of those remote management cards. Sun had a LOM card that you could SSH to, and then access a console from it... I think you can get one of those PC Weasel cards, but there really expensive. On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 19:16, Russell Garrison russell.garri...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: hello group. I have an interesting (and fairly technical) question. the question is: how can I forward the install screen via ssh to another machine on my network? I ask this because I didn't see any specific instructions that applied. my issue right now is that I need a sighted assistant to read me the screen and help with B installing the base system (and setting up ssh). I would like to run the install like from a serial port output (like the old spark pizza boxes) but none of my current machines have a serial port to do this on. comments? suggestions? -eric Any possibility of using USB serial adapters on these systems? You may need to blind-type to the boot loader in order to get it up on the serial redirection with an attached keyboard, but as I recall that isn't a big issue for Eric. ;) Then you would just need a crossover to the other DTE port on a host running cu and ssh to handle the install. We would do a similar thing with our v210's except they had built-in serial. -- James Shupe, OSRE developer/ engineer BSD/ Linux support hosting jsh...@osre.org | www.osre.org O 9032530140 | F 9032530150 | M 9035223425
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
On 2011-12-07, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: hello group. I have an interesting (and fairly technical) question. the question is: how can I forward the install screen via ssh to another machine on my network? You could use yaifo, this is a framework to build a custom install kernel which includes ssh. It needs initial setup with an authorized_keys file. There are several versions of yaifo, the most up-to-date is at https://github.com/jedisct1/yaifo
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
thanks for the info. I tried looking that up in google and got so many hits of a non-relivant nature that I gave up on it. -eric On Dec 8, 2011, at 1:27 AM, Stuart Henderson wrote: On 2011-12-07, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: hello group. I have an interesting (and fairly technical) question. the question is: how can I forward the install screen via ssh to another machine on my network? You could use yaifo, this is a framework to build a custom install kernel which includes ssh. It needs initial setup with an authorized_keys file. There are several versions of yaifo, the most up-to-date is at https://github.com/jedisct1/yaifo
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
* Russell Garrison russell.garri...@gmail.com [2011-12-08 02:17]: Any possibility of using USB serial adapters [as console]? think about it for a second. that would require the bootloader to have a usb stack. very much different than an isa device at a fixed address. theroetically the kernel itself could use a usb cereal once booted - and if you end up i ddb your console is unusable again since your usb stack might be wedged, the usb kthreads don't get to run as long as you're in ddb, ... -- Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org BS Web Services, http://bsws.de, Full-Service ISP Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services. Dedicated Servers, Root to Fully Managed Henning Brauer Consulting, http://henningbrauer.com/
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
Those 1U rack-mount machines can be rather noisy. If you don't need rack-mount then HP ML110 G5 is a small tower machine which also has iLo 100, and is significantly quieter. On 2011-12-08, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: ok, that is some new info I didn't have. it is going to have to wait for a few months though as I have no spare funds. still, though, it is still considerably than the $300+ I would have had to spend on a new MB/daughterboard, ram and cpu. -eric On Dec 8, 2011, at 12:19 AM, James Shupe wrote: Depending on your application, an older HP DL140 or DL145 G3 may work. They have iLo 100, which includes serial console redirection, and can be had on Ebay for around a hundred bucks. They're still nice with dual dual core Xeon or Opterons and up to 32Gb RAM.
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
On 2011-12-07 20.47, Eric Oyen wrote: the question is: how can I forward the install screen via ssh to another machine on my network? I ask this because I didn't see any specific instructions that applied. my issue right now is that I need a sighted assistant to read me the screen and help with installing the base system (and setting up ssh). I would like to run the install like from a serial port output (like the old spark pizza boxes) but none of my current machines have a serial port to do this on. As others have noted, that's unfortunately not possible with the way the system boots. Your best bet would probably be to grab a cheap PCI (or what kind bus your system has) serial port board that's capable of running as COM1 and then running the install from a serial port. Either that, or moving the root disk from your target machine to another, running, system and doing the install in a virtual machine on that host. You'd have to do a little leap of faith from then on of course, and hope that it will boot properly when moved back to its original environment. You'd probably want to enlist the help from someone first in order to get a dmesg from the system and check what network device(s) it has, so that you can set up the correct network interfaces blindly in the virtual environment (assuming it can't emulate that particular network hardware). Regards, /Benny -- internetlabbet.se / work: +46 8 551 124 80 / Words must Benny Lofgren/ mobile: +46 70 718 11 90 / be weighed, / fax:+46 8 551 124 89/not counted. /email: benny -at- internetlabbet.se
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
Ben, that is what I am hoping to find. transplanting from one hardware set to another is definitely problematic. also, the idea of looking for a com board is not a bad one. those are considerably cheaper and may offer what I need. -eric On Dec 8, 2011, at 7:31 AM, Benny Lofgren wrote: On 2011-12-07 20.47, Eric Oyen wrote: the question is: how can I forward the install screen via ssh to another machine on my network? I ask this because I didn't see any specific instructions that applied. my issue right now is that I need a sighted assistant to read me the screen and help with installing the base system (and setting up ssh). I would like to run the install like from a serial port output (like the old spark pizza boxes) but none of my current machines have a serial port to do this on. As others have noted, that's unfortunately not possible with the way the system boots. Your best bet would probably be to grab a cheap PCI (or what kind bus your system has) serial port board that's capable of running as COM1 and then running the install from a serial port. Either that, or moving the root disk from your target machine to another, running, system and doing the install in a virtual machine on that host. You'd have to do a little leap of faith from then on of course, and hope that it will boot properly when moved back to its original environment. You'd probably want to enlist the help from someone first in order to get a dmesg from the system and check what network device(s) it has, so that you can set up the correct network interfaces blindly in the virtual environment (assuming it can't emulate that particular network hardware). Regards, /Benny -- internetlabbet.se / work: +46 8 551 124 80 / Words must Benny Lofgren/ mobile: +46 70 718 11 90 / be weighed, / fax:+46 8 551 124 89/not counted. /email: benny -at- internetlabbet.se
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
* Benny Lofgren bl-li...@lofgren.biz [2011-12-08 15:32]: As others have noted, that's unfortunately not possible with the way the system boots. Your best bet would probably be to grab a cheap PCI (or what kind bus your system has) serial port board that's capable of running as COM1 and then running the install from a serial port. and how exactly do you force your PCI puc onto address 0x3f8? -- Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org BS Web Services, http://bsws.de, Full-Service ISP Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services. Dedicated Servers, Root to Fully Managed Henning Brauer Consulting, http://henningbrauer.com/
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
On 2011-12-08 18.03, Henning Brauer wrote: * Benny Lofgren bl-li...@lofgren.biz [2011-12-08 15:32]: As others have noted, that's unfortunately not possible with the way the system boots. Your best bet would probably be to grab a cheap PCI (or what kind bus your system has) serial port board that's capable of running as COM1 and then running the install from a serial port. and how exactly do you force your PCI puc onto address 0x3f8? Right... PCI != ISA. Then scratch that idea, too.
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
the question is: how can I forward the install screen via ssh to another machine on my network? I ask this because I didn't see any specific instructions that applied. my issue right now is that I need a sighted assistant to read me the screen and help with installing the base system (and setting up ssh). The answer: you can't. Think about it. The installer image is something static. Everyone installing the release gets the same image. How would you give it the ssh public key of the machine it would redirect to? How would you give it the network configuration? What if there are multiple machines? Which protocol version, login and password (or key) to use? I would like to run the install like from a serial port output (like the old spark pizza boxes) but none of my current machines have a serial port to do this on. Yes, and this is the sad situation of so-called enterprise computing nowadays.
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
On Wed, Dec 07, 2011 at 08:31:42PM +, Miod Vallat wrote: The answer: you can't. That was what I thought, too. But now I wonder about using yaifo from a desktop running a vnc server. It might work. -- http://code.phxbsd.com/
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: hello group. I have an interesting (and fairly technical) question. the question is: how can I forward the install screen via ssh to another machine on my network? I ask this because I didn't see any specific instructions that applied. my issue right now is that I need a sighted assistant to read me the screen and help with installing the base system (and setting up ssh). I would like to run the install like from a serial port output (like the old spark pizza boxes) but none of my current machines have a serial port to do this on. comments? suggestions? -eric Any possibility of using USB serial adapters on these systems? You may need to blind-type to the boot loader in order to get it up on the serial redirection with an attached keyboard, but as I recall that isn't a big issue for Eric. ;) Then you would just need a crossover to the other DTE port on a host running cu and ssh to handle the install. We would do a similar thing with our v210's except they had built-in serial.
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
I have one, and no, it doesn't work. Not until after the system is installed. The only option I think might hold promise (but it's gonna cost) is one of those remote management cards. Sun had a LOM card that you could SSH to, and then access a console from it... I think you can get one of those PC Weasel cards, but there really expensive. On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 19:16, Russell Garrison russell.garri...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: hello group. I have an interesting (and fairly technical) question. the question is: how can I forward the install screen via ssh to another machine on my network? I ask this because I didn't see any specific instructions that applied. my issue right now is that I need a sighted assistant to read me the screen and help with B installing the base system (and setting up ssh). I would like to run the install like from a serial port output (like the old spark pizza boxes) but none of my current machines have a serial port to do this on. comments? suggestions? -eric Any possibility of using USB serial adapters on these systems? You may need to blind-type to the boot loader in order to get it up on the serial redirection with an attached keyboard, but as I recall that isn't a big issue for Eric. ;) Then you would just need a crossover to the other DTE port on a host running cu and ssh to handle the install. We would do a similar thing with our v210's except they had built-in serial.
Re: using ssh to forward the install console
no kidding about the expensive part. a stand alone unit (designed for a pci-e or pci-x slot) can be generally more expensive than purchasing a server grade motherboard with an associated daughter board management device. Tyan microcomputer makes a reasonably priced MB with a separate daughter board (sold separately). my only issue is going to be getting the funds to do this. -eric On Dec 7, 2011, at 6:57 PM, Bryan wrote: I have one, and no, it doesn't work. Not until after the system is installed. The only option I think might hold promise (but it's gonna cost) is one of those remote management cards. Sun had a LOM card that you could SSH to, and then access a console from it... I think you can get one of those PC Weasel cards, but there really expensive. On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 19:16, Russell Garrison russell.garri...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote: hello group. I have an interesting (and fairly technical) question. the question is: how can I forward the install screen via ssh to another machine on my network? I ask this because I didn't see any specific instructions that applied. my issue right now is that I need a sighted assistant to read me the screen and help with B installing the base system (and setting up ssh). I would like to run the install like from a serial port output (like the old spark pizza boxes) but none of my current machines have a serial port to do this on. comments? suggestions? -eric Any possibility of using USB serial adapters on these systems? You may need to blind-type to the boot loader in order to get it up on the serial redirection with an attached keyboard, but as I recall that isn't a big issue for Eric. ;) Then you would just need a crossover to the other DTE port on a host running cu and ssh to handle the install. We would do a similar thing with our v210's except they had built-in serial.
