Re: Stupid SCSI questions - Novaxis
Adriano Camargo Rodrigues da Cunha wrote: Hi Adriano, First congrats on the new Uzix! It seems incredibly promising! Now it's about SCSI devices. I think KonamiMan, Manuel and Eric Boon are the right people to answer them... :) I don't know much about the technical details of the Novaxis, but I do konw something about the usage of it. Most of it I leared from Maico Arts though. The partition table of Gouda/Novaxis/Fudeba SCSI interfaces are standard? A decoding routine for MegaSCSI partition table will work on a Novaxis partition table? Can someone send me the *physical* sector 0 of a SCSI HD connected to a Novaxis interface? According to Maico and others they are not standard at all. A pc with Windows can read only the first partition of the Novaxis partitions, Maico told me. But with the NFDISK 1.2 program (to create the partitions (maybe you should download and disassemble it...?)) you can create 3 types of partition tables: FAT12 (Old MSX) FAT12 (Old PC) Extended I think the Extended one is needed if you want to use more than 6 partitions. But please fill me in on the details! I have no idea what the exact difference is between those types. If one would like to use the extended partition (i.e. use more than 6 partitions per SCSI device) it should be turned on in the BIOS setup menu. 2) SCSI IDs See Nestor's info. You have to remember the ID's indeed, but it's not a big problem. If you have more than one SCSI device on the Novaxis, you have to turn on the optoin Multiple HDD support in the BIOS setup menu. IT will then scan the SCSI bus for all devices. When finished, it lists the ID numbers and the manufacturers strings and stuff. The computer will boot from the partition which is setup (in the BIOS menu) as the Target ID. IF you turn Multiple HDD support off, it will just look for a device on this Target ID. The first partition of the device on the Target ID SCSI bus is selected as drive A: in MSX-DOS. If you want to select a partion, you will indeed have to remember the SCSI ID. E.g.: I want to select partition 12 of my harddisk on SCSI ID 5 to MSX-DOS drive F: MAP32 F 5 12 where MAP32 (or MAP) is the partition selection program again. I use this program very often, since as we know in DOS we can have only 8 drives, so I have only 6 partitions visible at any time. Great and logical that Uzix breaks this limit. 3) Novaxis --- How many people you know that own a Novaxis interface? Do they have the latest BIOS (1.50) installed? It's one of the most popular SCSI interfaces in the NL, next to MegaSCSI (which is a lot more expensive) and BERT (or MK, which is a lot slower). With the Novaxis you can get at least 108kB/S on a normal MSX2 and I got 248kB/s on 8MHz MSX2. Turbo-R is even faster and as Marcel Delorme showed, optimizing the BIOS can improve this even. I am talking about sector reading, btw. Anybody knows what the LUN parameter (Logical UNit) means for the Novaxis interface? Is it important? The docs I have say that LUN is usually 0. Can I use LUN allways equal to 0? I have no idea. Maybe Geert de Boom (of former MSX Club Gouda) has some contacts? I have his e-mail adres somewhere IIIRC it was [EMAIL PROTECTED], but I might be wrong, so please don't spam this address... Good luck and I really hope to install Uzix 2 on my MSX with Novaxis i/f soon! UZIX RULES! -- Grtjs, Manuel PS: MSX 4EVER! (Questions? See http://www.faq.msxnet.org/) PPS: Visit my homepage: http://bilderbeek.cjb.net/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Stupid SCSI questions - Novaxis
Manuel Bilderbeek wrote: Adriano Camargo Rodrigues da Cunha wrote: Anybody knows what the LUN parameter (Logical UNit) means for the Novaxis interface? Is it important? The docs I have say that LUN is usually 0. Can I use LUN allways equal to 0? I have no idea. I believe LUN is used to indicate the medium in devices with a 'changer mechanism' (eg. a CDROM unit which can store 4 discs). Since most devices can only store 1 medium, LUN is 0. Jon -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Stupid SCSI questions
Jon de Schrijder wrote: Adriano Camargo Rodrigues da Cunha wrote: Anybody knows what the LUN parameter (Logical UNit) means for the Novaxis interface? Is it important? The docs I have say that LUN is usually 0. Can I use LUN allways equal to 0? I believe LUN is used to indicate the medium in devices with a 'changer mechanism' (eg. a CDROM unit which can store 4 discs). Since most devices can only store 1 medium, LUN is 0. IIRC on BERT interface you can change the LUN of each harddrive to allow 7 x 64 harddisks. Adriano Camargo Rodrigues da Cunha wrote: Take the same example for MegaSCSI: each SCSI interface can handle seven devices (six (right?), since one ID is used by the interface itself) No 7 devices, there are 8 ID no's. (ID 0 through 7) Greetz, Patriek -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Stupid SCSI questions
] /dev/scsia0 (first MegaSCSI, device with ID 0, partition 0) ] I need to know that my ZIP drive has ID 5 or I can't access it because ] I don't know which entry to use in /dev. ] I hope I made de problem clear. If not, I can explain it again. ] So, master-of-MegaSCSI-NestorPrograms ;), am I right about all this ] things or there is an easier way to handle all this stuff? Hi Adriano, You are right. Though, in stead of using special commands to look at the directories and copy files from them, you can also build FAT support into the uzix kernel. Such that you can do for example: mount /dev/scsia0 /msx_data Or whatever you want to call your filesystem. Obviously you would put the line in /etc/fstab so that the mount is done automatically at boot time. In such way you do not have to remember the SCSI IDs or partition numbers afterwards anymore. Only when you put them in /etc/fstab. But I suppose I'm not telling anything new here ;-) Kind regards, Alex Wulms -- Visit The MSX Plaza (http://www.inter.nl.net/users/A.P.Wulms) for info on XelaSoft, Merlasoft, Quadrivium, SD-Snatcher on fMSX, the MSX Hardware list, XSA Disk images, documentation, Japanese MSX news from Ikeda and lots more. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Stupid SCSI questions
Alex, You are right. Though, in stead of using special commands to look at the directories and copy files from them, you can also build FAT support into the uzix kernel. Such that you can do for example: mount /dev/scsia0 /msx_data That would be perfect, I know. I also want FAT support into the kernel, but it will not be an easy task. Now I have about 8kb of free space in the kernel, and MegaSCSI/Novaxis/ WD2793/WD1793 support is not ready. And I think that it's not possible to fit entire FAT support in just 4kb memory... :( Or whatever you want to call your filesystem. Obviously you would put the line in /etc/fstab so that the mount is done automatically at boot time. In such way you do not have to remember the SCSI IDs or partition numbers afterwards anymore. Only when you put them in /etc/fstab. Of course. :) Regards, Adriano Camargo Rodrigues da Cunha ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.adrpage.cjb.net MSX: more fun per less MHz I don't need to eat neither to sleep. I bought a modem. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Stupid SCSI questions
The partition table of Gouda/Novaxis/Fudeba SCSI interfaces are standard? A decoding routine for MegaSCSI partition table will work on a Novaxis partition table? I just know about partition tables created when formatting a disk with MegaSCSI (except earlier versions of SFORM) and Sunrise IDE: both devices create a standard partition table. You could even partition the disk with a PC and be able to manage the partitions on the MSX (as long as you use my PS.COM and NOT the original CP.COM with the MegaSCSI), and vice versa: taht's the meaning of the word standard. ;-) I don't know about Novaxis. If I have a SCSI interface and connect a HD to it, what is the ID of this HD? 0 or 1? None of them? Or the ID can be configured by the user? If I connect three SCSI HDs to my SCSI interface, can I set any ID for each one (5 for the first, 0 for the second and 3 for the third, for example?)? Or they will have their ID automatically set by the interface (or their order in in the connection, I don't know): 0, 1 and 2 (or 1, 2 and 3, I don't know)? Don't have headaches for this question, it is quite easy: 1) The ID of a SCSI device is either factory fixed (rare), configurable by the user between two or three values to choose (the most common case) or fully configurable to any value between 0 and 7. 2) The ID is configured via hard (a switch, jumpers, or whatever) and can NOT be modified in real time via soft when the device is running. 3) As long as you don't repeat numbers, you are free to choose all the IDs on a SCSI chain as you want. No need to be consecutive, or to set IDs progressively according to the phsysical structure of the chain, or whatever. Remember however that the SCSI interface itself owns one of the ID of the chain, that is, logically acts as one of the devices. 3) Novaxis --- Ooops! Zero knowledge about this, sorry! 8-) *** XX BARCELONA MSX USERS MEETING: DECEMBER 8TH, 2001 *** -- Konami Man - AKA Nestor Soriano (^ ^)v Itsumo MSX user [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.konamiman.com Kyoko Koizumi home page (under construction): http://www.geocities.com/tamachan1976/index.html -- -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Stupid SCSI questions
The partition table of Gouda/Novaxis/Fudeba SCSI interfaces are standard? A decoding routine for MegaSCSI partition table will work on a Novaxis partition table? Can someone send me the *physical* sector 0 of a SCSI HD connected to a Novaxis interface? Novaxis, MK, Sunrise IDE, MegaSCSI all use different partitioning schemes, afaik. I can send you this sector, if you tell me how to get it. If I had the appropriate bios call with parameters I should be able to get it. How many people you know that own a Novaxis interface? Do they have the latest BIOS (1.50) installed? Anybody knows what the LUN parameter (Logical UNit) means for the Novaxis interface? Is it important? The docs I have say that LUN is usually 0. Can I use LUN allways equal to 0? Novaxis is pretty common in Holland. I have one, and yes, its bios is 1.51 (there is a more recent version). P.S. UZIX rules. Tristan + Omega + join #msx on undernet + [EMAIL PROTECTED] + | | FUNET MSX maintainer | ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/msx| + irc: OmegaMSX +Techno composer+ http://members1.chello.nl/~t.zondag01 + -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Stupid SCSI questions
Nestor, The partition table of Gouda/Novaxis/Fudeba SCSI interfaces are standard? A decoding routine for MegaSCSI partition table will work on a Novaxis partition table? I just know about partition tables created when formatting a disk with MegaSCSI (except earlier versions of SFORM) and Sunrise IDE: both devices create a standard partition table. Sunrise IDE uses a not-so-standard way. Jon confirmed that IDE uses all available space in sector 0 to save partition table. So, a PC will recognize only the first 4 partitions... But, doing this makes partition locating faster on MSX. :) You could even partition the disk with a PC and be able to manage the partitions on the MSX (as long as you use my PS.COM and NOT the original CP.COM with the MegaSCSI) If I had a MegaSCSI, of course I would use NestorPartitionChanger. :) [SCSI ID numbers] Don't have headaches for this question, it is quite easy: Interesting... Thanks for the clear explanation. So, SCSI users allways have to know the IDs of their SCSI devices? If I had two SCSI HDs and a SCSI Zip Drive I must know that my first HD has ID 3, my second HD has ID 2, my ZIP drive has ID 7 AND that my SCSI interface has ID 4 (uff!) or I can't correcly select partition 3 of the ZIP-disk on my ZIP drive? :P (ugh... should I write write the numbers in a post-it and put it in the front of my monitor? :P) Adriano Camargo Rodrigues da Cunha ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.adrpage.cjb.net MSX: more fun per less MHz Aibohphobia n. - The fear of palindromes _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Stupid SCSI questions
So, SCSI users allways have to know the IDs of their SCSI devices? If I had two SCSI HDs and a SCSI Zip Drive I must know that my first HD has ID 3, my second HD has ID 2, my ZIP drive has ID 7 AND that my SCSI interface has ID 4 (uff!) or I can't correcly select partition 3 of the ZIP-disk on my ZIP drive? :P (ugh... should I write write the numbers in a post-it and put it in the front of my monitor? :P) SCSI ID's are prioritized, ID 7 has highest and ID 0 has lowest priority. Usually (but not always) the SCSI card has ID 7. I used to run a BBS system with two BERT (MK) SCSI interfaces. 2 Computers accessing the same harddrive. I believe I had ID 7 and ID 6 for the interfaces (they're configurable at boottime) and ID 0 for the harddrive. Sometimes I would add a ZIPdrive at ID 5. You could get SCSI bus-lockups if you wrote data to the harddrive at the same time from 2 computers, but there were never problems with reading. Besides, there was a special DOS version (2.33 if I recall correctly) with which you could press CTRL-BS and it would solve the bus-lockup. With normal DOS I would just reset the computer that hung and everything was okay again. Greetz, Patriek -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re[2]: Stupid SCSI questions
Sunrise IDE uses a not-so-standard way. Jon confirmed that IDE uses all available space in sector 0 to save partition table. So, a PC will recognize only the first 4 partitions... But, doing this makes partition locating faster on MSX. :) Uf... I hate these non-standard tricks. Sorry. 8-) MegaSCSI uses actually two systems at the same time to manage partitions: 1) The mentioned standard partition table. This allows to use any Mega-SCSI formatted device with a PC, and is the table used by my PS.COM. 2) In each partition there is a hidden file, MEGASCSI.TBL, with information about the physical starting sector of each partition. This information is used by CP.COM, and is of course faster than reading the standard partition table. So, SCSI users allways have to know the IDs of their SCSI devices? (ugh... should I write write the numbers in a post-it and put it in the front of my monitor? :P) On the case of MegaSCSI, there is no need for this. Using ESET you assign one device for each drive assigned to MegaSCSI. So you must set up a device for each drive only once, and from that point, worry only about partition numbers. For example, say that you assign 6 drives for MegaSCSI. Then A: could be ESE-RAM, B: and C: could be for hard disk, D: and E: could be for ZIP, and F: for CD-ROM. You set up this using ESET, and after this, a PS C:7 (or CP C:7) means: I want to assign partition 7 of my HD to drive C: However, PS.COM allows you to optionally specify the ID of a device to be attached to one drive, together with the partition number. For example PS C:7 5 means: let's attach device with ID 5 to drive C:, and then select partition 7. *** XX BARCELONA MSX USERS MEETING: DECEMBER 8TH, 2001 *** -- Konami Man - AKA Nestor Soriano (^ ^)v Itsumo MSX user [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.konamiman.com Kyoko Koizumi home page (under construction): http://www.geocities.com/tamachan1976/index.html -- -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Stupid SCSI questions
Nestor, MegaSCSI uses actually two systems at the same time to manage partitions: Yes, I know this. But using MEGASCSI.TBL is fudeba. :) So, SCSI users allways have to know the IDs of their SCSI devices? On the case of MegaSCSI, there is no need for this. Wait, wait... Forget about PS for a moment. I know that using ESET and PS you can forget about SCSI IDs after the initial setup. I'm asking all this things 'cause I'm writing MegaSCSI/Novaxis drivers for UZIX. And I need to know about SCSI IDs handling. In UZIX you don't have the 8 drives limitation. For example, take the Sunrise IDE interface (that already have a driver in my UZIX): If I had two IDEs connected to my MSX, and each IDE had two HDs connected to it, AND if each HD (total: 4) had 31 partitions, I would have 31*4=124 partitions to manage. How do I handle this on UZIX? I have 124 devices in /dev: /dev/idea0 (1st IDE, master device, partition 0) /dev/idea1 (1st IDE, master device, partition 1) ... /dev/idea30 (1st IDE, master device, partition 30) /dev/ideb0 (1st IDE, slave device, partition 0) /dev/ideb1 (1st IDE, slave device, partition 1) ... /dev/ideb30 (1st IDE, master device, partition 30) /dev/idec0 (2nd IDE, master device, partition 0) /dev/idec1 (2nd IDE, master device, partition 1) ... /dev/ideb30 (2nd IDE, master device, partition 30) /dev/idec0 (2nd IDE, slave device, partition 0) ... /dev/idec30 (2nd IDE, slave device, partition 30) Ok, now I can access each partition of each HD of each IDE I have on my MSX. Cool, huh? Stupid usage example: I want to see the directory of the DOS partition, FAT 16 bits, in my 2nd HD (slave device of first IDE), partition 27. I would type dosdir /dev/ideb27 Take the same example for MegaSCSI: each SCSI interface can handle seven devices (six (right?), since one ID is used by the interface itself), and suppose I have two MegaSCSIs on my MSX: /dev/scsia0 (first MegaSCSI, device with ID 0, partition 0) ... /dev/scsia255 (first MegaSCSI, device with ID 0, partition 255) /dev/scsib0 (first MegaSCSI, device with ID 1, partition 0) ... /dev/scsib255 (first MegaSCSI, device with ID 0, partition 255) ... [and so on, until /dev/scsio255] So, if my SCSI ZIP drive, with ID 5, is connected to my MegaSCSI, the corresponding entry of it is /dev/scsif### (where ### vary from 0 to 255). So, I need to know that my ZIP drive has ID 5 or I can't access it because I don't know which entry to use in /dev. I hope I made de problem clear. If not, I can explain it again. So, master-of-MegaSCSI-NestorPrograms ;), am I right about all this things or there is an easier way to handle all this stuff? Adriano Camargo Rodrigues da Cunha ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.adrpage.cjb.net MSX: more fun per less MHz Aibohphobia n. - The fear of palindromes _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Stupid SCSI questions
Hi, It's me again, with more questions... Now it's about SCSI devices. I think KonamiMan, Manuel and Eric Boon are the right people to answer them... :) 1) Partition tables The partition table of Gouda/Novaxis/Fudeba SCSI interfaces are standard? A decoding routine for MegaSCSI partition table will work on a Novaxis partition table? Can someone send me the *physical* sector 0 of a SCSI HD connected to a Novaxis interface? 2) SCSI IDs If I have a SCSI interface and connect a HD to it, what is the ID of this HD? 0 or 1? None of them? Or the ID can be configured by the user? If I connect three SCSI HDs to my SCSI interface, can I set any ID for each one (5 for the first, 0 for the second and 3 for the third, for example?)? Or they will have their ID automatically set by the interface (or their order in in the connection, I don't know): 0, 1 and 2 (or 1, 2 and 3, I don't know)? 3) Novaxis --- How many people you know that own a Novaxis interface? Do they have the latest BIOS (1.50) installed? Anybody knows what the LUN parameter (Logical UNit) means for the Novaxis interface? Is it important? The docs I have say that LUN is usually 0. Can I use LUN allways equal to 0? Thanks for any help, Adriano Camargo Rodrigues da Cunha ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.adrpage.cjb.net MSX: more fun per less MHz Aibohphobia n. - The fear of palindromes _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
