Re: Can I fix this groups.io problem with a send hook or something
On 24Nov2020 12:09, Ian Zimmerman wrote: >On 2020-11-24 17:22, Chris Green wrote: >> > > I'm on a couple of mailing lists that have recently moved from >> > > Yahoo Groups to groups.io. For DMARC (so they claim) groups.io >> > > change the senders E-mail address as follows:- >> > > >> > > Sender Name >> > > >> > > becomes:- >> > > >> > > "Sender Name via groups.io" > >> It only happens to users from some domains. [...] > >It is because those senders subscribed with an address covered by a >strict DMARC policy. If their address is not munged by the list, their >messages will be bounced back to the list by almost everyone if they >fail a DKIM check (and that's almost always). [...] > >There's no good automatic solution to build into a MUA for this, as far >as I know. The best you can do is write a macro to extract the true >sender, and feel lucky for using a MUA that allows that :-) I have an unmangle step in my mail filer. I'll list the rules at the bottom of this message. Basicly, for particular sources I hack the From: line around. For yahoo lists the original address was embedded in the From: header itself, for mercur...@mercurial-scm.org the Reply-To: header holds the original author, for us...@lists.fedoraproject.org the X-Old-From: header holds it, for core-mentors...@python.org it is in the X-MailFrom: and so forth. So there's a suite of special purpose rules below. The rule syntax below is "target condition...", so each of the: from:s/this/that/ lines is a "target" and the other lines constraint which messages it is applied to. I imagine you could do something with procmail like this. See the "formail" command. If formail won't do it, a sed script probably will. Note that this of course mangles the headers, a price I've been willing to pay for sanity. Cheers, Cameron Simpson # undo Yahoo Groups DKIM/DMARC mangling # if we ever check the validity of this stuff it will need to be before this step from:s/"(?P.*\S)\s+(?P\S+@\S+)\s+\[(?P[^ ]*)\]".*<(?P=listname)(-noreply)?@yahoogroups.com>/"$fullname" <$coreaddr>/ sender:/@yahoogroups.com from:/@yahoogroups.com> from:s/"(?P.*\S)\s+(?P\S+@\S+)\s+\[(?P[^ ]*)\]".*<(?P=listname)@yahoogroups.com>/"$fullname" <$coreaddr>/ sender:/@yahoogroups.com from:/@yahoogroups.com> from:s/"(?P\S+@\S+)\s+\[(?P[^ ]*)\]".*<(?P=listname)@yahoogroups.com>/<$coreaddr>/ sender:/@yahoogroups.com from:/@yahoogroups.com> from:s/.*/$reply_to/ sender:mercurial-boun...@mercurial-scm.org from:/ via Mercurial # undo Linux Australia header mangling from:s/.*/$reply_to/ sender:linux-aus-boun...@lists.linux.org.au from:linux-...@lists.linux.org.au from:s/.*/$x_mailfrom/ from:core-mentors...@python.org x-mailfrom:/@ list-id:/core-mentorship.python.org/ from:s/.*/$reply_to/ from:(python-l...@python.org|python-id...@python.org|python-...@python.org|tu...@python.org) # fedoraproject.org x-mailfrom from:s/ via users / <$x_mailfrom>/ from:(us...@lists.fedoraproject.org) # googlegroups x-original-from from:s/ via users / <$x_original_from>/ from:vim_...@googlegroups.com
Re: Can I fix this groups.io problem with a send hook or something
On 2020-11-24 17:22, Chris Green wrote: > > > I'm on a couple of mailing lists that have recently moved from > > > Yahoo Groups to groups.io. For DMARC (so they claim) groups.io > > > change the senders E-mail address as follows:- > > > > > > Sender Name > > > > > > becomes:- > > > > > > "Sender Name via groups.io" > It only happens to users from some domains. I have seen it only with > btinternet.com and ntlworld.com. Like you I can send replies off-list > to senders from other domains such as gmail and my own isbd.net. > > There is a faq entry about it on the groups.io web site, that's where > I found it has something to do with DMARC. It is because those senders subscribed with an address covered by a strict DMARC policy. If their address is not munged by the list, their messages will be bounced back to the list by almost everyone if they fail a DKIM check (and that's almost always). This is just a perfect storm of sh*t - DMARC misguided by itself (IMO) plus the ancient but misguided (also IMO) practice of lists munging or adding to message contents. There's no good automatic solution to build into a MUA for this, as far as I know. The best you can do is write a macro to extract the true sender, and feel lucky for using a MUA that allows that :-) -- Ian
Re: Can I fix this groups.io problem with a send hook or something
On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 05:06:54PM +0100, Francesco Ariis wrote: > Il 24 novembre 2020 alle 15:59 Chris Green ha scritto: > > I don't know if anyone else has seen this problem but was hoping that > > someone has and thus has a ready made fix. > > > > I'm on a couple of mailing lists that have recently moved from Yahoo > > Groups to groups.io. For DMARC (so they claim) groups.io change the > > senders E-mail address as follows:- > > > > Sender Name > > > > becomes:- > > > > "Sender Name via groups.io" > > > > > > So a R[eply] to sender doesn't work because the address is simply > > wrong, I get an error back from groups.io when I use R[eply]. > > Hello Chris, I myself follow a group that moved to groups.io from yahoo > (abcusers). > But I cannot reproduce your problem! The headers seem fine > > Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:35:41 -0700 > From: Pat Anderson > To: abcus...@groups.io > Subject: [abcusers] We Need a Linux Snap, Flatpak, or AppISomage for > EasyABC! > User-Agent: GROUPS.IO Web Poster > > and when I press `r` I am prompted > > Reply to abcus...@groups.io? ([yes]/no): > > then after `n` I edit the message and everything is fine in «To:». > Am I understanding the problem correctly? Maybe your group admin changed > some settings? It only happens to users from some domains. I have seen it only with btinternet.com and ntlworld.com. Like you I can send replies off-list to senders from other domains such as gmail and my own isbd.net. There is a faq entry about it on the groups.io web site, that's where I found it has something to do with DMARC. -- Chris Green
Re: Can I fix this groups.io problem with a send hook or something
Il 24 novembre 2020 alle 15:59 Chris Green ha scritto: > I don't know if anyone else has seen this problem but was hoping that > someone has and thus has a ready made fix. > > I'm on a couple of mailing lists that have recently moved from Yahoo > Groups to groups.io. For DMARC (so they claim) groups.io change the > senders E-mail address as follows:- > > Sender Name > > becomes:- > > "Sender Name via groups.io" > > > So a R[eply] to sender doesn't work because the address is simply > wrong, I get an error back from groups.io when I use R[eply]. Hello Chris, I myself follow a group that moved to groups.io from yahoo (abcusers). But I cannot reproduce your problem! The headers seem fine Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:35:41 -0700 From: Pat Anderson To: abcus...@groups.io Subject: [abcusers] We Need a Linux Snap, Flatpak, or AppISomage for EasyABC! User-Agent: GROUPS.IO Web Poster and when I press `r` I am prompted Reply to abcus...@groups.io? ([yes]/no): then after `n` I edit the message and everything is fine in «To:». Am I understanding the problem correctly? Maybe your group admin changed some settings? —F
Re: Can I fix this groups.io problem with a send hook or something
On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 11:01:37AM -0500, John Hawkinson wrote: > Chris Green wrote on Tue, 24 Nov 2020 > at 10:59:12 EST in <20201124155912.GL887493@esprimo>: > > > > Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 15:59:12 + > > From: Chris Green > > To: mutt-users@mutt.org > > Subject: Can I fix this groups.io problem with a send hook or something > > Message-ID: <20201124155912.GL887493@esprimo> > > Mail-Followup-To: mutt-users@mutt.org > > Sender: Mutt-users > > > > I don't know if anyone else has seen this problem but was hoping that > > someone has and thus has a ready made fix. > > > > I'm on a couple of mailing lists that have recently moved from Yahoo > > Groups to groups.io. For DMARC (so they claim) groups.io change the > > senders E-mail address as follows:- > > > > Sender Name > > > > becomes:- > > > > "Sender Name via groups.io" > > > > > > So a R[eply] to sender doesn't work because the address is simply > > wrong, I get an error back from groups.io when I use R[eply]. > > > > > > Is there a (fairly) simple send_hook (or something else) that I can > > use to mend the address? Surely this isn't a new problem so I am > > hoping someone else here may have got an answer already! :-) > > > > -- > > Chris Green > The groups.io lists I'm on set Reply-To to the original address, so that > in practice this is not a problem when mutt is allowed to honor Reply-To. > Perhaps this is a list-specific configuration setting, though. > I looked at one of the groups I have the problem with and Reply-To: is:- Reply-To: starbase-...@groups.ioo I.e. it's set to the name of the group. -- Chris Green
