On 4/5/21 10:23 PM, Robert Brockway wrote:
On Thu, 1 Apr 2021, Jean St-Laurent via NANOG wrote:
What happened is that it would create a kind of internal DDoS and
they would all timed out and give a weird error message. Something
very useful like Error Code 0x8098808 Please call our support
On Thu, 1 Apr 2021, Jean St-Laurent via NANOG wrote:
What happened is that it would create a kind of internal DDoS and they would
all timed out and give a weird error message. Something very useful like
Error Code 0x8098808 Please call our support line at this phone number.
If only there was
Yes, I was reaching out to my NANOG folks to find out as you stated... "Hey I
was curious what happened and I thought to ask here on NANOG?"
I appreciate the membership with you all and value your position and visibility
in regional, continental and global operations. Thanks for your insights,
Midwest-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com
- Original Message -
From: "Jared Mauch"
To: "Dave Brockman - DVS"
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Friday, April 2, 2021 7:08:09 AM
Subject: Re: wow, lots of akamai
On Thu, Apr 01, 2021 at 03:31:39PM -0400, Dave Brockman - DVS wrote:
On Thu, Apr 01, 2021 at 08:09:24PM +, Luke Guillory wrote:
> IX’s don’t really help the source doesn’t use them.
>
> Akamai traffic.
> 17G via Local Cache
> 17G via Transit
> 8G via IXs.
>
> Plenty of room on IXs for more on our side.
Often we can see the ports at the IX flatline in
On Thu, Apr 01, 2021 at 03:31:39PM -0400, Dave Brockman - DVS wrote:
> On 4/1/2021 3:21 PM, Niels Bakker wrote:
> > * nanog@nanog.org (Jean St-Laurent via NANOG) [Thu 01 Apr 2021, 21:03
> > CEST]:
> >> An artificial roll out penalty somehow? Probably not at the ISP level,
> >> but more at the game
On 4/1/2021 3:21 PM, Niels Bakker wrote:
> * nanog@nanog.org (Jean St-Laurent via NANOG) [Thu 01 Apr 2021, 21:03
> CEST]:
>> An artificial roll out penalty somehow? Probably not at the ISP level,
>> but more at the game level. Well, ISP could also have some mechanisms
>> to reduce the impact or
> On 2 Apr 2021, at 11:47, Mark Tinka wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 4/2/21 01:41, Tony Wicks wrote:
>>
>> Local backhaul is plentiful and relatively cheap where as subsea wavelengths
>> are extremely expensive and require months of planning.
>
> Funny, it's the exact opposite for us.
Yup, it is...
On 4/2/21 01:41, Tony Wicks wrote:
Local backhaul is plentiful and relatively cheap where as subsea
wavelengths are extremely expensive and require months of planning.
Funny, it's the exact opposite for us.
Mark.
On 4/2/21 00:56, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
And after all that, I still do not see what we are arguing about? You
want the game companies to change their business model, but you do not
want to change yours. Please do not say something like “but if they
just ….” Unless you want the game
On 4/1/21 21:01, Jean St-Laurent via NANOG wrote:
Are big games roll out really impacting NANOG? or it's more a: Hey I was
curious what happened and I thought to ask here on NANOG?
The latter, I'd say.
Mark.
Cc: 'NANOG'
Subject: RE: wow, lots of akamai
I remembered working for a big ISP in Europe offering cable tv + internet with
+20M subscribers
Every time there was a huge power outage in major cities, all tv`s would go off
at the same time. I don`t have stats on power grid stability in Europe Vs N/A.
T
To: North American Operators' Group
Subject: Re: wow, lots of akamai
Just so I am clear, you are saying “I would rather have it come over my
undersea cables than from inside the datacenter”?
And you are assuming TCP transport.
* patr...@ianai.net (Patrick W. Gilmore) [Fri 02 Apr 2021, 01:01 CEST]:
I know first hand that Akamai has explained to large customers the
possible problems with multi-GB updates to millions of users
simultaneously. If the game company does not care, then I do not see
what you expect the CDN
I am a bit worried about phrases like "If Akamai was doing these updates more
frequently”. Akamai does not decide these things. You may as well say “if the
fiber carriers sent the bits over several hours instead of all at once.” And
please do not say you were just using shorthand. You have
1, 2021 5:40:41 PM
Subject: Re: wow, lots of akamai
* na...@ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) [Thu 01 Apr 2021, 23:17 CEST]:
>However, the game publisher queues those requests. I'm meaning
>request generically, not a GET request or anything like that. The
>game publisher that contracts to th
* na...@ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) [Thu 01 Apr 2021, 23:17 CEST]:
However, the game publisher queues those requests. I'm meaning
request generically, not a GET request or anything like that. The
game publisher that contracts to the CDNs decides when to fulfill
those requests, in the big
uli...@gmail.com>>
> Cc: North American Operators' Group mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
> Subject: Re: wow, lots of akamai
>
>
> If thousands of users are downloading 50G files at the same time, it really
> doesn't matter if they are pulling from a CDN or the origin dir
Patrick,
> Matt: Are you arguing the CDNs are at fault because the game companies
tell everyone to download simultaneously, and
> the ISPs sold the users connectivity to do that download?
While a gross oversimplification, yes, that's basically what I'm saying; I
know it may not be a popular
the better option for cost and the
consumer, but you certainly do notice the traffic in local backhaul.
From: NANOG On Behalf Of Tom Beecher
Sent: Friday, 2 April 2021 10:05 am
To: Matt Erculiani
Cc: North American Operators' Group
Subject: Re: wow, lots of akamai
If thousands
I am sorry, maybe I misunderstand.
Matt: Are you arguing the CDNs are at fault because the game companies tell
everyone to download simultaneously, and the ISPs sold the users connectivity
to do that download?
If so, are you really arguing “I sold my users XXX Mbps, but if they try to use
it,
er"
To: "Matt Erculiani"
Cc: "North American Operators' Group"
Sent: Thursday, April 1, 2021 4:04:34 PM
Subject: Re: wow, lots of akamai
No disrespect taken, or intended back in your direction, but again, I disagree.
If thousands of users are downloading 50G fi
No disrespect taken, or intended back in your direction, but again, I
disagree.
If thousands of users are downloading 50G files at the same time, it really
doesn't matter if they are pulling from a CDN or the origin directly. The
volume of traffic still has to be handled. Yes, it's a burden on
Tom,
All due respect, but there is a massive difference between one user
downloading 50G and thousands of users each downloading 50G when they all
go to play their videogame of choice at around the same time.
-Matt
On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 2:46 PM Tom Beecher wrote:
> A user sends a few
happy.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com
- Original Message -
From: "Niels Bakker"
To: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Thursday, April 1, 2021 3:49:17 PM
Subject: Re: wow, lots of akamai
* na...@
Lots of publishers will allow for new stuff to be pre-downloaded before a
specified release time. There was a time that it was probably helpful in
spreading the load out over time, but today it doesn't help much because
either everyone starts the preload at the same time, or people don't have
* na...@ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) [Thu 01 Apr 2021, 21:51 CEST]:
I'm not sure what kind of time lines are expected or engineered for
now, but it *seems* like its a 12 - 36 hour sprint to push the
content out. If so, push it out to 36 - 72 hours? Adjust accordingly
for however much off I am on
>
> A user sends a few megabytes of request and receives 50 gigs of reply.
> They aren't DDoSing the network, but they're amplifying a single 50 gig
> copy they receive from the mothership and turning it into likely tens of
> terabytes of traffic.
> Yes, that's a CDN's job, but that volume of
Patrick,
> First, to be blunt, if you really think Akamai nodes are “sitting idle
for weeks” before CoD comes out with a new game,
> you are clearly confused.
"Idle" in the sense that when you look at a graph of traffic before and
after a large push such as this makes the rest of the week's
Peace,
On Thu, Apr 1, 2021, 11:16 PM Tom Beecher wrote:
> Akamai, and other CDNs, do not **generate** traffic ; they serve the
> requests generated by users.
>
L3/4-wise, this is true. Application-wise, this is quite the other way
around.
--
Töma
>
They add a cookie.
This generate traffic
From: NANOG On Behalf Of Tom Beecher
Sent: April 1, 2021 4:12 PM
To: Matt Erculiani
Cc: nanog@nanog.org list
Subject: Re: wow, lots of akamai
Does Akamai bear some burden here to make these rollouts less troublesome for
the ISPs
I’m not blind that it takes a massive number of resources. We just haven’t see
things the way you have is all.
From: NANOG On Behalf Of
Patrick W. Gilmore
Sent: Thursday, April 1, 2021 3:09 PM
To: North American Operators' Group
Subject: Re: wow, lots of akamai
*External Email: Use Caution*
: wow, lots of akamai
Matt:
I am going to disagree with your characterization of how Akamai - and many
other CDNs - manage things. First, to be blunt, if you really think Akamai
nodes are “sitting idle for weeks” before CoD comes out with a new game, you
are clearly confused.
More
>
> Does Akamai bear some burden here to make these rollouts less troublesome
> for the ISPs they traverse through the last mile(s)? IMO yes, yes they do.
> When you're doing something new and unprecedented, as Akamai frequently
> brags about on Twitter, like having rapid, bursty growth of
om: "Niels Bakker" mailto:niels=na...@bakker.net>>
To: nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 1, 2021 2:21:24 PM
Subject: Re: wow, lots of akamai
* nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org> (Jean St-Laurent via NANOG) [Thu 01
Apr 2021, 21:03 CEST]:
&
Matt:
I am going to disagree with your characterization of how Akamai - and many
other CDNs - manage things. First, to be blunt, if you really think Akamai
nodes are “sitting idle for weeks” before CoD comes out with a new game, you
are clearly confused.
More importantly, I know for a fact
Niels,
I think to clarify Jean's point, when you buy a 300mbps circuit, you're
paying for 300mbps of *internet *access.
That does not mean that a network should (and in this case small-medium
ones simply can't) build all of their capacity to service a large number of
customer circuits at line
://www.ics-il.com
Midwest-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com
- Original Message -
From: "Jean St-Laurent"
To: "Mike Hammett" , "Niels Bakker"
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Thursday, April 1, 2021 2:41:38 PM
Subject: RE: wow, lots of akamai
This would
* j...@ddostest.me (Jean St-Laurent) [Thu 01 Apr 2021, 21:41 CEST]:
This would be a good compromises for all.
Slowly deliver the assets few days/weeks ahead.
Excellent compromise except for the people who paid for the game.
Why do they need to spend storage to solve your bandwidth problem?
@nanog.org
Subject: Re: wow, lots of akamai
There likely is some amount of time between the product being "done" and the
activation date. That time could be used (and may very well be for some
platforms) to distribute the content ahead of when people need it. If too many
points of
@nanog.org
Subject: Re: wow, lots of akamai
On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 12:23 Niels Bakker mailto:na...@bakker.net> > wrote:
* nanog@nanog.org <mailto:nanog@nanog.org> (Jean St-Laurent via NANOG) [Thu 01
Apr 2021, 21:03 CEST]:
>An artificial roll out penalty somehow? Probably not at
ke Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com
- Original Message -
From: "Niels Bakker"
To: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Thursday, April 1, 2021 2:21:24 PM
Subject: Re: wow, lots of akamai
* nanog@nanog.org (Jean St-Lauren
No I didn't suggest that.
-Original Message-
From: NANOG On Behalf Of Niels
Bakker
Sent: April 1, 2021 3:21 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: wow, lots of akamai
* nanog@nanog.org (Jean St-Laurent via NANOG) [Thu 01 Apr 2021, 21:03 CEST]:
>An artificial roll out penalty some
games roll out really impacting NANOG? or it's more a: Hey I was
> curious what happened and I thought to ask here on NANOG?
>
> #JustCurious
>
> Jean
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: NANOG On Behalf Of
> aar...@gvtc.com
> Sent: April 1, 2021 12:12 PM
> To: 'J
On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 12:23 Niels Bakker wrote:
> * nanog@nanog.org (Jean St-Laurent via NANOG) [Thu 01 Apr 2021, 21:03
> CEST]:
> >An artificial roll out penalty somehow? Probably not at the ISP
> >level, but more at the game level. Well, ISP could also have some
> >mechanisms to reduce the
* nanog@nanog.org (Jean St-Laurent via NANOG) [Thu 01 Apr 2021, 21:03 CEST]:
An artificial roll out penalty somehow? Probably not at the ISP
level, but more at the game level. Well, ISP could also have some
mechanisms to reduce the impact or even Akamai could force a
progressive roll out.
Gavrichenkov'
Cc: 'NANOG'
Subject: RE: wow, lots of akamai
Gaming update... I had a feeling. Thanks for the feedback folks.
Thanks Jared, it's running well, before, during and after. We have a lot of
capacity there.
-Aaron
what happened and I thought to ask here on NANOG?
#JustCurious
Jean
-Original Message-
From: NANOG On Behalf Of
aar...@gvtc.com
Sent: April 1, 2021 12:12 PM
To: 'Jared Mauch' ; 'Töma Gavrichenkov'
Cc: 'NANOG'
Subject: RE: wow, lots of akamai
Gaming update... I had a feeling. Thanks
Gaming update... I had a feeling. Thanks for the feedback folks.
Thanks Jared, it's running well, before, during and after. We have a lot of
capacity there.
-Aaron
> On Apr 1, 2021, at 11:15 AM, Töma Gavrichenkov wrote:
>
> Peace,
>
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2021, 6:09 PM wrote:
> That was a lot of traffic coming out of akamai aanp clusters the last couple
> nights! What was it?
>
> "Call of Duty" update again, obviously.
>
>
On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 11:16 AM Töma Gavrichenkov wrote:
> Peace,
>
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2021, 6:09 PM wrote:
>
>> That was a lot of traffic coming out of akamai aanp clusters the last
>> couple nights! What was it?
>>
> "Call of Duty" update again, obviously.
>
>
>
Peace,
On Thu, Apr 1, 2021, 6:09 PM wrote:
> That was a lot of traffic coming out of akamai aanp clusters the last
> couple nights! What was it?
>
"Call of Duty" update again, obviously.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-03-29-this-weeks-call-of-duty-warzone-update-is-over-50gb
--
Töma
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