On 1/28/22 15:42, Mike Hammett wrote:
I also think the complexities, requirements, tolerances, etc. of an
EPC are also being understated in the thread. The difference being is
that I am aware (and stated as such) that I'm understating Netflix's
usage. The other side doesn't know how
To: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 7:38:12 AM
Subject: Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?
On 1/28/22 15:22, Josh Baird wrote:
> I think Netflix's usage of AWS is being understated here.
My understanding is that the user profiles and li
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
From: "Michael Thomas" < m...@mtcc.com >
To: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 3:54:57 PM
Subject: Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" o
On 1/28/22 15:22, Josh Baird wrote:
I think Netflix's usage of AWS is being understated here.
My understanding is that the user profiles and library listings are held
with AWS, but that the actual video is on their OCA's.
I could be wrong...
Mark.
On 1/28/22 13:28, Mike Hammett wrote:
There's a big difference between a website (admittedly a complex one)
and a mobile core.
Word is it hasn't been smooth-sailing, but Amazon are pushing on.
Failing and improving is in their DNA, so I'm sure everyday, they are
one step closer to the
isp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Michael Thomas"
> *To: *nanog@nanog.org
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 27, 2022 3:54:57 PM
> *Subject: *Re: What do you think about the "cloudificat
y, January 27, 2022 3:54:57 PM
Subject: Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?
On 1/26/22 11:11 PM, Mark Tinka wrote:
>
>
> On 1/26/22 17:10, Tom Beecher wrote:
>
>>
>> Those folks also tend to learn hard lessons about what happens when
It appears that Michael Thomas said:
>Didn't Netflix for the longest time run on AWS?
They still do. Their web site and the non-realtime stuff is at AWS,
the streaming they do themselves.
R's,
John
In Andreessen Horowitz's words:
“you’re crazy if you don’t start in the cloud; you’re crazy if you stay
on it"
On 1/27/22 15:54, Michael Thomas wrote:
On 1/26/22 11:11 PM, Mark Tinka wrote:
On 1/26/22 17:10, Tom Beecher wrote:
Those folks also tend to learn hard lessons about what
On 1/26/22 11:11 PM, Mark Tinka wrote:
On 1/26/22 17:10, Tom Beecher wrote:
Those folks also tend to learn hard lessons about what happens when
the Magic Cloud provider fails in a way that isn't possible to
anticipate because it's all black box.
Saving 12 months of opex $ sounds
On 1/27/22 14:43, Mike Hammett wrote:
Cloud-hosted infrastructure just doesn't work reliably. Too many
points of failure along the way.
If that were true, the "Internet" (what users define as the Internet)
would be down more often than not.
For the price, I think there is sufficient
>
> I do disagree, if I understood the argument right. If the argument is
> 'cloud makes no business sense to anyone'.
>
That wasn't the argument I intended to make, but I see how it could have
been interpreted that way.
There are absolutely a ton of use cases where cloud usage makes absolute
m Beecher"
Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group"
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 1:11:56 AM
Subject: Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?
On 1/26/22 17:10, Tom Beecher wrote:
>
> Those folks also tend to learn hard lessons about
On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 at 09:44, Mark Tinka wrote:
> What I do agree with is that the loss of control of operating your
> network yourself does present a risk. But that is a personal position,
Yes. Few comparisons are obviously and exclusively better or worse. It
is attractive to think of them as
On 1/27/22 09:32, Saku Ytti wrote:
I do disagree, if I understood the argument right. If the argument is
'cloud makes no business sense to anyone'.
I don't agree that cloud does not make business sense to anyone. There
is a reason why Amazon, Microsoft and Google are milking it right now,
On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 at 09:16, Mark Tinka wrote:
> > Saving 12 months of opex $ sounds great, except when you lose 18
> > months of opex $ in 2 days completely outside of your ability to control.
>
> I don't disagree.
>
> What this does, though, is democratize access into the industry. For a
>
On 1/26/22 23:04, Christopher Morrow wrote:
It seems like some of the situation is:
"5g/mobile builds include a bunch more 'general machine' resources
which offload a bunch of the work from what was dedicated appliances/etc."
Followed quickly by:
"Well, we don't have the resources/etc
On 1/26/22 21:38, Michael Thomas wrote:
I think for the vast majority of cloud users they'd do a way worse job
at uptime than the providers.
Indeed... I mean, we've seen it with the migration of on-premise
infrastructure into the cloud, en masse, for a number of "corporate"
services.
On 1/26/22 17:10, Tom Beecher wrote:
Those folks also tend to learn hard lessons about what happens when
the Magic Cloud provider fails in a way that isn't possible to
anticipate because it's all black box.
Saving 12 months of opex $ sounds great, except when you lose 18
months of opex
On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 2:37 PM Michael Thomas wrote:
>
> I think for the vast majority of cloud users they'd do a way worse job at
> uptime than the providers. Whether that applies to some telcos, I'm not
> sure.
>
>
It seems like some of the situation is:
"5g/mobile builds include a bunch
On 1/26/22 7:10 AM, Tom Beecher wrote:
For some folk, the risk of money cost outweighs the risk of loss of
direct operational control.
Those folks also tend to learn hard lessons about what happens when
the Magic Cloud provider fails in a way that isn't possible to
anticipate
Or, when someone dies because their cell phone doesn’t work and can’t do a
simple 911 call anymore when AWS has yet another outage for 2 days.
All those pesky side effects of removing certain functionality that was once
handled locally…
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 26, 2022, at 8:11 AM, Tom
>
> For some folk, the risk of money cost outweighs the risk of loss of
> direct operational control.
>
Those folks also tend to learn hard lessons about what happens when the
Magic Cloud provider fails in a way that isn't possible to anticipate
because it's all black box.
Saving 12 months of
On 1/26/22 16:41, Randy Bush wrote:
s/de-risk/re-risk/
it's just a different risk
I should have finished that sentence with "de-risk their infrastructure
spend", because the actual risk is in having to spend money upfront to
build the network.
For some folk, the risk of money cost
> If you stay away from getting stuck in the word "cloud", there is lots
> of value for folk that choose to de-risk their infrastructure,
s/de-risk/re-risk/
it's just a different risk
randy
On 1/26/22 15:29, Mike Hammett wrote:
Like most other things cloud, the value is going to be much harder to
find than the hype.
If you stay away from getting stuck in the word "cloud", there is lots
of value for folk that choose to de-risk their infrastructure, by
letting someone else run
.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 1:52:20 PM
Subject: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?
There was an article in the Economist (sorry if it's paywalled) about
Dish entering the mobile market using an AWS backend. I don't think that
AWS brings much more than
On 1/25/22 16:11, Josh Luthman wrote:
Mark,
Use the 12 foot ladder to get over the 10 foot paywall:
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fbusiness%2Fwill-the-cloud-business-eat-the-5g-telecoms-industry%2F21806999
Hehe, thanks :-).
So yeah, it sort of mirrors my
On 1/25/22 21:56, Michael Thomas wrote:
What I was thinking of is more of "over the top" where I don't need to
be an Xfinity customer (lot least of which is that I can't).
I've seen MNO's partner with other providers to run a VLAN for their
service on their wi-fi network. For various
On 1/25/22 20:06, Michael Thomas wrote:
That's what I've been trying to figure out as well. The use case of
seamless handoff across large regions is fairly niche imo. Sure that
was the original motivation for cell phones, but smartphones are about
as statically located as laptops and
On 1/25/22 11:44, Matthew Petach wrote:
Which is pretty much what Xfinity is already offering
to their subscribers; use your xfinity login to get onto
the wifi access points of other xfinity users all around
the country, relatively seamlessly.
Which is a major hassle if you have your own APs
On 1/25/22 11:44 AM, Matthew Petach wrote:
On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 10:11 AM Michael Thomas wrote:
[...]
Since everybody has their own wifi it seems that federating all of
them
for pretty good coverage by a provider and charging a nominal fee to
manage it would suit a
Cox has been doing this for awhile.
On 1/25/22 13:44, Matthew Petach wrote:
On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 10:11 AM Michael Thomas wrote:
[...]
Since everybody has their own wifi it seems that federating all of
them
for pretty good coverage by a provider and charging a nominal
On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 10:11 AM Michael Thomas wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> Since everybody has their own wifi it seems that federating all of them
> for pretty good coverage by a provider and charging a nominal fee to
> manage it would suit a lot of people needs. It doesn't need expensive
> spectrum
On 1/25/22 6:11 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Mark,
Use the 12 foot ladder to get over the 10 foot paywall:
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fbusiness%2Fwill-the-cloud-business-eat-the-5g-telecoms-industry%2F21806999
Yeah, sorry I didn't know what their paywall looked like
On 1/25/22 6:02 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
On 1/25/22 15:45, Masataka Ohta wrote:
As is stated in free part of the article that:
The country’s three biggest carriers, AT, Verizon and
T-Mobile, have offered 5G connectivity but in practice
this differed little from the earlier 4G.
Mark Tinka wrote:
By one operator offering 5G, all other operators are forced to offer
5G. So they all end up spending billions to remain in the same
place.
As 802 is for LANMAN, all we need is 802.11 for MAN maybe combined
with IP mobility.
On 1/25/22 16:14, Ca By wrote:
I would say its all actually billions of $$ in spectrum and patent
fees… hardware parts are a rounding error.
Yes, the majority of the cost is in bidding and competing for spectrum.
It's a whole song & dance.
But also, depending on just how much of a
On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 6:06 AM Mark Tinka wrote:
>
>
> On 1/25/22 15:45, Masataka Ohta wrote:
>
> > As is stated in free part of the article that:
> >
> > The country’s three biggest carriers, AT, Verizon and
> > T-Mobile, have offered 5G connectivity but in practice
> > this
Mark,
Use the 12 foot ladder to get over the 10 foot paywall:
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fbusiness%2Fwill-the-cloud-business-eat-the-5g-telecoms-industry%2F21806999
On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:12 AM Mark Tinka wrote:
>
>
> On 1/19/22 21:52, Michael Thomas wrote:
>
On 1/25/22 15:45, Masataka Ohta wrote:
As is stated in free part of the article that:
The country’s three biggest carriers, AT, Verizon and
T-Mobile, have offered 5G connectivity but in practice
this differed little from the earlier 4G.
5G is nothing. That's all.
Considering
Michael Thomas wrote:
Am I missing something, or is this mainly hype?
As is stated in free part of the article that:
The country’s three biggest carriers, AT, Verizon and
T-Mobile, have offered 5G connectivity but in practice
this differed little from the earlier 4G.
On 1/25/22 14:33, sro...@ronan-online.com wrote:
It’s the frequency and the knowledge to configure the software and equipment
that is still prohibitively expensive in many cases.
And I think this is where the AWS solution would be able to come into
its own, just like they did with
It’s the frequency and the knowledge to configure the software and equipment
that is still prohibitively expensive in many cases.
And frankly, if you are only providing fixed access to 500 users, I’m not sure
even the AWS solution is necessary. Because if you can configure the transport
and
On 1/25/22 12:50, Bjørn Mork wrote:
I don't know what that article says, but cloudification of the mobile
core has been a thing for a while. We have this: https://wgtwo.com/
Disclaimer: I'm working for Telenor and spouse is working for Cisco.
WG2 is a joint venture between Cisco, Telenor
I don't know what that article says, but cloudification of the mobile
core has been a thing for a while. We have this: https://wgtwo.com/
Disclaimer: I'm working for Telenor and spouse is working for Cisco.
WG2 is a joint venture between Cisco, Telenor and Digital Alpha.
Bjørn
On 1/19/22 21:52, Michael Thomas wrote:
There was an article in the Economist (sorry if it's paywalled) about
Dish entering the mobile market using an AWS backend. I don't think
that AWS brings much more than compute for the most part so I don't
really get why this would be a huge win. A
There was an article in the Economist (sorry if it's paywalled) about
Dish entering the mobile market using an AWS backend. I don't think that
AWS brings much more than compute for the most part so I don't really
get why this would be a huge win. A win maybe, but a huge win? I can
certainly
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