Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
Stephen Satchell l...@satchell.net writes: ... They just couldn't believe that 300 people could max out their system ... Last year, the group AVERAGED four devices each. A *camping* event that I go to, that is by and large not a technology-oriented consituency, averaged 2.6 devices per attendee. -r
Re: REMINDER: LEAP SECOND
- Original Message - From: Jimmy Hess mysi...@gmail.com On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 1:06 AM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:06:29 -0400, Jay Ashworth said: [snip] I'll let the perpetrator, Richard Stallman, explain. It was a kerfluffle regarding whether /bin/du should use units of 1,000 or 1024. http://karmak.org/archive/2003/01/12-14-99.epl.html It's not 1024 vs 1000; it's 1024 vs 512. If it's du or df; the display is supposed to be the number of 512-Byte blocks. [ ... ] If you set POSIXLY_CORRECT in the environment, they will show in 512 byte blocks, or the disk sector size in bytes, instead, like they are supposed to Yes, but Valdis' politically correct reference goes to the original name of the environment variable, which I once knew, but had forgotten, was POSIX_ME_HARDER. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
On Jun 21, 2015, at 1:28 AM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: My understanding is that the most recent NANOG had issues with clients picking channels sequentially vs by signal strength. There may have been other issues but when all devices use 149 because that's the first they can and they get link that's not good. we're lucky those mean vicious bad clients don't also come to ietf, wwdc, crisco live, ... oh wait … I’ll say the difference about IETF is a lot more planning goes into it. The people are on-site much earlier than for a NANOG and there are few last minute rushes. While there are larger plenary meetings at IETF, most are in smaller rooms but are packed with chairs and laptops/devices. you are blaming the customer as if you worked for a telco. oh wait ... :) Duh. Always blame the customer, step 1 success. step2 (vendor/cisco tac): have you tried turning it on and off again? step3 maybe it’s fixed in the latest code If people know of tricks to solve this when there are 600-1000 devices per room i am certain the NANOG eng team would love to know about it. clue: with 600-1000 geeks there are gonna be 2k-4k devices. Yup. This is a given. - Jared
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
No wonder IPv4 is depleted. People's shoes have a MAC address nowadays... On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Rob Seastrom r...@seastrom.com wrote: Stephen Satchell l...@satchell.net writes: ... They just couldn't believe that 300 people could max out their system ... Last year, the group AVERAGED four devices each. A *camping* event that I go to, that is by and large not a technology-oriented consituency, averaged 2.6 devices per attendee. -r
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
And Aruba also did a kick-ass wireless installation at the new Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara. Here is a White Paper on it: http://arubanetworks.com/wp-content/uploads/stadiumRFfund.pdf -Mike On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 10:51 AM, John Todd jt...@loligo.com wrote: On 20 Jun 2015, at 9:37, Sina Owolabi wrote: I'd be grateful for any information on how to calculate for large scale wifi deployment [snip] While it is vendor specific (and therefore subject to certain biases) I’ve found the Aruba VRD (Validated Reference Design) documentation fairly clear and applicable to many high-density environments. It covers theory, planning, and engineering. http://community.arubanetworks.com/t5/Validated-Reference-Design/Very-High-Density-802-11ac-Networks-Validated-Reference-Design/ta-p/230891 I’m certain that Cisco, Xirrus, Ruckus, Ubiquiti, Areohive, etc. also have papers on the topic that (hopefully) have the same basic theory concepts applied to their specific configuration syntax and special sauces. I’ve had good experiences with Aruba with high-density auditorium usage on several occasions, though I tend to turn off some of the proprietary features to keep things simple. There are also some less-formal slide decks on the same topic from Aruba that are a bit redundant but more conversational: http://www.wlanpros.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Ultra-High-Density-WLAN-Design-Deployment-Chuck-Lukaszewski.pdf http://community.arubanetworks.com/aruba/attachments/aruba/tkb@tkb/86/3/2012%20AH%20Vegas%20-%20WLAN%20Design%20for%20High%20Density.pdf JT -- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.l...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
This has all been a very huge help, and I am thankful for all the insights and reading material. I fee expert already! On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 6:14 AM Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com wrote: They also have an awesome DAS installation there as well. On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Mel Beckman m...@beckman.org wrote: I recently visited that installation. It's quite impressive and we are employing the down-low AP placement strategy on another high density project. The scheme uses human RF attenuation to enable closer AP spacing, which in turn supports a higher channel re-use ratio. -mel beckman On Jun 21, 2015, at 10:03 PM, Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com wrote: And Aruba also did a kick-ass wireless installation at the new Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara. Here is a White Paper on it: http://arubanetworks.com/wp-content/uploads/stadiumRFfund.pdf -Mike On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 10:51 AM, John Todd jt...@loligo.com wrote: On 20 Jun 2015, at 9:37, Sina Owolabi wrote: I'd be grateful for any information on how to calculate for large scale wifi deployment [snip] While it is vendor specific (and therefore subject to certain biases) I’ve found the Aruba VRD (Validated Reference Design) documentation fairly clear and applicable to many high-density environments. It covers theory, planning, and engineering. http://community.arubanetworks.com/t5/Validated-Reference-Design/Very-High-Density-802-11ac-Networks-Validated-Reference-Design/ta-p/230891 I’m certain that Cisco, Xirrus, Ruckus, Ubiquiti, Areohive, etc. also have papers on the topic that (hopefully) have the same basic theory concepts applied to their specific configuration syntax and special sauces. I’ve had good experiences with Aruba with high-density auditorium usage on several occasions, though I tend to turn off some of the proprietary features to keep things simple. There are also some less-formal slide decks on the same topic from Aruba that are a bit redundant but more conversational: http://www.wlanpros.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Ultra-High-Density-WLAN-Design-Deployment-Chuck-Lukaszewski.pdf http://community.arubanetworks.com/aruba/attachments/aruba/tkb@tkb/86/3/2012%20AH%20Vegas%20-%20WLAN%20Design%20for%20High%20Density.pdf JT -- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.l...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon -- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.l...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon
Help Needed Converting KVM network Non-VLAN network to VLANs, odd
Hi! I apologize if this is not something I should have posted here, but I've come to value the insights and experience of the people on this list a lot, and I am hoping my problem isn't unique. I am also sorry for the long read. I have been to the forums of the devices in play in this problem, and while Red Hat has been a huge help, they all hand off when they hear about the other devices in play. Some background: I have a Sophos UTM ASG220 serving as gateway device for a number of networks, with a Cisco 2960 network switch, and a raft of Red Hat 6.6 servers running KVM and hosting multiple guests, with the guests being on different network subnets. The UTM has its LAN interface populated with multiple virtual interfaces (its really a stripped down, optimized RHEL-type Linux machine under the hood) as gateways for all the network subnets except for the primary network it was created with during installation. I have VLANs defined on the switch, and the KVM hosts are having bonded interfaces (mode 1, based on RHN support advice), VLAN sub interfaces and bridges configured for each network, and each guest is attached to its appropriate bridge and 8021q is setup. Without involving the UTM, VLAN traffic transverses beautifully, between swich, KVM hosts and guests, I have no issues there That said, this is what is happening: I am successful in generating new VLAN interfaces on the Sophos UTM (but with a different IP address) to replace the existing gateway virtual IP address (for instance, for test network, virtual interface gateway address is 10.11.0.253, and the VLAN interface to replace it is 10.11.0.253). At first instance the guests and the kvm host are able to ping the switch, the newVLAN gateway interface and the old virtual gateway interface, after the VLAN is in place. But if I try to remove the old virtual interface (eg 10.11.0.253), then networking starts acting weird. The switch VLAN address (say 10.11.0.7) isunable toping or reach the guests (say 10.11.0.36) on the VLAN, but it can reach the kvm host vlan bridge (say 10.11.0.4) address, and it can reach the Sophos gateway (10.11.0.254,VLAN address). Even after bring the gateway virtual interface (10.11.0.253) back up the situation remainsfor a while. The guests can reach each other on the same VLAN, but cannot ping the switch VLAN interface address, and cannot ping their VLAN gateway address, or route traffic to other external networks). But the guests can reach the LAN DNS servers, which are ona different subnet entirely (192.168.2.0)! But theguests also can only reach the DNS servers on the 192.168.2.0 subnet, they cannot reach all the addresses. Arping responds to and from all network machines/devices while all this is going on. This continued for a while even after rebooting the switch, and bringing up and down the gateway network interfaces. Then suddenly things started working again (but with the gateway virtual and VLAN addresses both up).I am successful in generating anew VLAN interface (but with a different IP address) to replace the existing gateway virtual IP address (for instance, for test network, virtual interface gateway address is 10.11.0.253, and the VLAN interface to replace it is 10.11.0.253). At first instance the guests and the kvm host are able to ping the switch, the newVLAN gateway interface and the old virtual gateway interface, after the VLAN is in place. But if I try to remove the old virtual interface (eg 10.11.0.253), then networking starts acting weird. The switch VLAN address (say 10.11.0.7) isunable toping or reach the guests (say 10.11.0.36) on the VLAN, but it can reach the kvm host vlan bridge (say 10.11.0.4) address, and it can reach the gateway (10.11.0.254,VLAN address). Even after bringing the gateway virtual interface (10.11.0.253) back up the situation remains for a while. The guests can reach each other on the same VLAN, but cannot ping the switch VLAN interface address, and cannot ping their VLAN gateway address, or route traffic to other external networks). But the guests can reach the LAN DNS servers, which are on a different subnet entirely (192.168.2.0)! The guests also can only reach the DNS servers on the 192.168.2.0 subnet, they cannot reach all the addresses. Arping responds to and from all network machines/devices while all this is going on. This continued for a while even after clearing the arp-caches, rebooting the switch, and bringing up and down the gateway network interfaces. Then suddenly things started working again (but with the gateway virtual and VLAN addresses both up). I'd love some insight to what's happening and how I can fix this.
Data Center Network Monitoring with TAPs
Hello All, Was wondering what folks are using to monitor traffic on their networks. Looking into Ixia and APCON devices for dedup and other filtering features as well as passive fiber TAPs to capture the traffic. How are folks handling TAP'ing large data center networks? TAPs at the distribution layer would be the best fit for my network but that would require a ton of passive fiber TAPs for the incoming fibers to the distribution switches. The end goal is to not only capture the north-south traffic on the network but also east-west traffic. It seems more efficient to just use SPANs but there are many limitations using SPANs. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Mitch
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
I recently visited that installation. It's quite impressive and we are employing the down-low AP placement strategy on another high density project. The scheme uses human RF attenuation to enable closer AP spacing, which in turn supports a higher channel re-use ratio. -mel beckman On Jun 21, 2015, at 10:03 PM, Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com wrote: And Aruba also did a kick-ass wireless installation at the new Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara. Here is a White Paper on it: http://arubanetworks.com/wp-content/uploads/stadiumRFfund.pdf -Mike On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 10:51 AM, John Todd jt...@loligo.com wrote: On 20 Jun 2015, at 9:37, Sina Owolabi wrote: I'd be grateful for any information on how to calculate for large scale wifi deployment [snip] While it is vendor specific (and therefore subject to certain biases) I’ve found the Aruba VRD (Validated Reference Design) documentation fairly clear and applicable to many high-density environments. It covers theory, planning, and engineering. http://community.arubanetworks.com/t5/Validated-Reference-Design/Very-High-Density-802-11ac-Networks-Validated-Reference-Design/ta-p/230891 I’m certain that Cisco, Xirrus, Ruckus, Ubiquiti, Areohive, etc. also have papers on the topic that (hopefully) have the same basic theory concepts applied to their specific configuration syntax and special sauces. I’ve had good experiences with Aruba with high-density auditorium usage on several occasions, though I tend to turn off some of the proprietary features to keep things simple. There are also some less-formal slide decks on the same topic from Aruba that are a bit redundant but more conversational: http://www.wlanpros.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Ultra-High-Density-WLAN-Design-Deployment-Chuck-Lukaszewski.pdf http://community.arubanetworks.com/aruba/attachments/aruba/tkb@tkb/86/3/2012%20AH%20Vegas%20-%20WLAN%20Design%20for%20High%20Density.pdf JT -- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.l...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon
Re: Data Center Network Monitoring with TAPs
Ultimately this is one of the things that SDN schemes such as OpenFlow bring a data center for free. Distributed flow statistics collection through OenFlow's extensible infrastructure gives you a huge range of reporting and analysis capabilities, with no taps needed. Every network port is in essence a tap. Here's an interesting paper on one open source OF tool: https://www.nas.ewi.tudelft.nl/people/Fernando/papers/MonitoringOpenFlow.pdf -mel beckman On Jun 21, 2015, at 9:50 PM, Mitch Howards hbf9...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello All, Was wondering what folks are using to monitor traffic on their networks. Looking into Ixia and APCON devices for dedup and other filtering features as well as passive fiber TAPs to capture the traffic. How are folks handling TAP'ing large data center networks? TAPs at the distribution layer would be the best fit for my network but that would require a ton of passive fiber TAPs for the incoming fibers to the distribution switches. The end goal is to not only capture the north-south traffic on the network but also east-west traffic. It seems more efficient to just use SPANs but there are many limitations using SPANs. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Mitch
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
They also have an awesome DAS installation there as well. On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Mel Beckman m...@beckman.org wrote: I recently visited that installation. It's quite impressive and we are employing the down-low AP placement strategy on another high density project. The scheme uses human RF attenuation to enable closer AP spacing, which in turn supports a higher channel re-use ratio. -mel beckman On Jun 21, 2015, at 10:03 PM, Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com wrote: And Aruba also did a kick-ass wireless installation at the new Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara. Here is a White Paper on it: http://arubanetworks.com/wp-content/uploads/stadiumRFfund.pdf -Mike On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 10:51 AM, John Todd jt...@loligo.com wrote: On 20 Jun 2015, at 9:37, Sina Owolabi wrote: I'd be grateful for any information on how to calculate for large scale wifi deployment [snip] While it is vendor specific (and therefore subject to certain biases) I’ve found the Aruba VRD (Validated Reference Design) documentation fairly clear and applicable to many high-density environments. It covers theory, planning, and engineering. http://community.arubanetworks.com/t5/Validated-Reference-Design/Very-High-Density-802-11ac-Networks-Validated-Reference-Design/ta-p/230891 I’m certain that Cisco, Xirrus, Ruckus, Ubiquiti, Areohive, etc. also have papers on the topic that (hopefully) have the same basic theory concepts applied to their specific configuration syntax and special sauces. I’ve had good experiences with Aruba with high-density auditorium usage on several occasions, though I tend to turn off some of the proprietary features to keep things simple. There are also some less-formal slide decks on the same topic from Aruba that are a bit redundant but more conversational: http://www.wlanpros.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Ultra-High-Density-WLAN-Design-Deployment-Chuck-Lukaszewski.pdf http://community.arubanetworks.com/aruba/attachments/aruba/tkb@tkb/86/3/2012%20AH%20Vegas%20-%20WLAN%20Design%20for%20High%20Density.pdf JT -- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.l...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon -- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.l...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
On 20 Jun 2015, at 9:37, Sina Owolabi wrote: I'd be grateful for any information on how to calculate for large scale wifi deployment [snip] While it is vendor specific (and therefore subject to certain biases) I’ve found the Aruba VRD (Validated Reference Design) documentation fairly clear and applicable to many high-density environments. It covers theory, planning, and engineering. http://community.arubanetworks.com/t5/Validated-Reference-Design/Very-High-Density-802-11ac-Networks-Validated-Reference-Design/ta-p/230891 I’m certain that Cisco, Xirrus, Ruckus, Ubiquiti, Areohive, etc. also have papers on the topic that (hopefully) have the same basic theory concepts applied to their specific configuration syntax and special sauces. I’ve had good experiences with Aruba with high-density auditorium usage on several occasions, though I tend to turn off some of the proprietary features to keep things simple. There are also some less-formal slide decks on the same topic from Aruba that are a bit redundant but more conversational: http://www.wlanpros.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Ultra-High-Density-WLAN-Design-Deployment-Chuck-Lukaszewski.pdf http://community.arubanetworks.com/aruba/attachments/aruba/tkb@tkb/86/3/2012%20AH%20Vegas%20-%20WLAN%20Design%20for%20High%20Density.pdf JT
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 11:45 PM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: Soultimately, what's the answer? A huge number of low cost, low power WAPs? Eager readers want to know. :) what was unclear about the following? +1 Randy Bush wrote: From: Randy Bush ra...@psg.com Subject: Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? To: Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com Cc: North American Network Operators' Group nanog@nanog.org Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 08:20:33 +0900 ... having been in the back seat for many deployments over the years with all sorts of kit, i have seen great and reliable pretty large deployments of all of the above (well, xirrus only once). i have seen embarrassing messes with all of the above. i have concluded that the critical component is the engineer. It is totally possible to build a good wifi setup if you know what you're doing. David Lang regularly builds a good setup out of commodity parts and openwrt at SCALE, and talks to the basic issues here: https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/lisa12/lisa12-final-32.pdf I wish we had more clued people working on wifi. And that conference organizers/hotels/corps/institutions realized that having people that knew what they were doing on the wifi was a valuable service for geeky conferences, at least. SCALE2015 went excellently, I'm told. I have some measurements of the nanog network from the SF conference this past month. pretty terrrible... -- Dave Täht worldwide bufferbloat report: http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat And: What will it take to vastly improve wifi for everyone? https://plus.google.com/u/0/explore/makewififast
Re: REMINDER: LEAP SECOND
On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 1:06 AM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:06:29 -0400, Jay Ashworth said: [snip] I'll let the perpetrator, Richard Stallman, explain. It was a kerfluffle regarding whether /bin/du should use units of 1,000 or 1024. http://karmak.org/archive/2003/01/12-14-99.epl.html It's not 1024 vs 1000; it's 1024 vs 512. If it's du or df; the display is supposed to be the number of 512-Byte blocks. Thankfully, the -k and -g options were added to display in Kilobyte or Gigabyte units which are more human understandable and familiar. Some of the GNU utilities play fast and loose on the spec and default to 1024-byte blocks. If you set POSIXLY_CORRECT in the environment, they will show in 512 byte blocks, or the disk sector size in bytes, instead,like they are supposed to -- -JH
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
What gear was used at the last NANOG in SF? Was it indeed Xirrus? -Mike On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Dave Taht dave.t...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 11:45 PM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: Soultimately, what's the answer? A huge number of low cost, low power WAPs? Eager readers want to know. :) what was unclear about the following? +1 Randy Bush wrote: From: Randy Bush ra...@psg.com Subject: Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? To: Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com Cc: North American Network Operators' Group nanog@nanog.org Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 08:20:33 +0900 ... having been in the back seat for many deployments over the years with all sorts of kit, i have seen great and reliable pretty large deployments of all of the above (well, xirrus only once). i have seen embarrassing messes with all of the above. i have concluded that the critical component is the engineer. It is totally possible to build a good wifi setup if you know what you're doing. David Lang regularly builds a good setup out of commodity parts and openwrt at SCALE, and talks to the basic issues here: https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/lisa12/lisa12-final-32.pdf I wish we had more clued people working on wifi. And that conference organizers/hotels/corps/institutions realized that having people that knew what they were doing on the wifi was a valuable service for geeky conferences, at least. SCALE2015 went excellently, I'm told. I have some measurements of the nanog network from the SF conference this past month. pretty terrrible... -- Dave Täht worldwide bufferbloat report: http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat And: What will it take to vastly improve wifi for everyone? https://plus.google.com/u/0/explore/makewififast -- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.l...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
What gear was used at the last NANOG in SF? Was it indeed Xirrus? yes. but i would not blame the gear
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: What gear was used at the last NANOG in SF? Was it indeed Xirrus? yes. but i would not blame the gear I would blame some of the gear. Very bad bufferbloat (up to 1.5 sec of latency) on the download direction. http://snapon.lab.bufferbloat.net/~d/nanog/nanog_down.png More flent.org data in that dir for your bemusement. -- Dave Täht worldwide bufferbloat report: http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat And: What will it take to vastly improve wifi for everyone? https://plus.google.com/u/0/explore/makewififast
Re: REMINDER: LEAP SECOND
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:06:29 -0400, Jay Ashworth said: - Original Message - From: Valdis Kletnieks valdis.kletni...@vt.edu I wonder how many of us are old enough to remember what that environment variable *used* to be called before political correctness became important. There are so many layers in that observation that I'm lost. Was posixly-correct a purposeful pun on politically correct, and I've missed it all these decades? Or was it named something else earlier than that, which wasn't itself politically correct? I'll let the perpetrator, Richard Stallman, explain. It was a kerfluffle regarding whether /bin/du should use units of 1,000 or 1024. http://karmak.org/archive/2003/01/12-14-99.epl.html pgp59EO311gVp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
A lot. It's a good point, but not very helpful to those engineers trying to design said infrastructure. On Jun 20, 2015 11:45 PM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: Soultimately, what's the answer? A huge number of low cost, low power WAPs? Eager readers want to know. :) what was unclear about the following? Randy Bush wrote: From: Randy Bush ra...@psg.com Subject: Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? To: Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com Cc: North American Network Operators' Group nanog@nanog.org Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 08:20:33 +0900 ... having been in the back seat for many deployments over the years with all sorts of kit, i have seen great and reliable pretty large deployments of all of the above (well, xirrus only once). i have seen embarrassing messes with all of the above. i have concluded that the critical component is the engineer.
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
Soultimately, what's the answer? A huge number of low cost, low power WAPs? Eager readers want to know. :) On Jun 20, 2015 10:30 PM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: My understanding is that the most recent NANOG had issues with clients picking channels sequentially vs by signal strength. There may have been other issues but when all devices use 149 because that's the first they can and they get link that's not good. we're lucky those mean vicious bad clients don't also come to ietf, wwdc, crisco live, ... oh wait ... you are blaming the customer as if you worked for a telco. oh wait ... :) If people know of tricks to solve this when there are 600-1000 devices per room i am certain the NANOG eng team would love to know about it. clue: with 600-1000 geeks there are gonna be 2k-4k devices. randy
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
Soultimately, what's the answer? A huge number of low cost, low power WAPs? Eager readers want to know. :) what was unclear about the following? Randy Bush wrote: From: Randy Bush ra...@psg.com Subject: Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? To: Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com Cc: North American Network Operators' Group nanog@nanog.org Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 08:20:33 +0900 ... having been in the back seat for many deployments over the years with all sorts of kit, i have seen great and reliable pretty large deployments of all of the above (well, xirrus only once). i have seen embarrassing messes with all of the above. i have concluded that the critical component is the engineer.
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
Waaay to many variables to answer the question. Each deployment is different and requires proper engineering and experience... -Mike On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 11:50 PM, Mike Hale eyeronic.des...@gmail.com wrote: A lot. It's a good point, but not very helpful to those engineers trying to design said infrastructure. On Jun 20, 2015 11:45 PM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: Soultimately, what's the answer? A huge number of low cost, low power WAPs? Eager readers want to know. :) what was unclear about the following? Randy Bush wrote: From: Randy Bush ra...@psg.com Subject: Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? To: Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com Cc: North American Network Operators' Group nanog@nanog.org Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 08:20:33 +0900 ... having been in the back seat for many deployments over the years with all sorts of kit, i have seen great and reliable pretty large deployments of all of the above (well, xirrus only once). i have seen embarrassing messes with all of the above. i have concluded that the critical component is the engineer. -- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.l...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
What you need is more APs running at lower poer levels to cover smaller areas, spread out around the room. lots of other trix. some of which i have seen are o pull the asians off on to one or more channel 14 aps (but that's old 11b days). o set the aps low so the wetware attenuates but i am not an expert; i just try to work with folk who are and get the hell out of their way and see that they are well supplied with coffee, food, and beer. randy
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
On 06/20/2015 11:56 PM, Mike Lyon wrote: Waaay to many variables to answer the question. Each deployment is different and requires proper engineering and experience... And a good description of the problem, too, as I learned the hard way trying to work with the IT people for a Ruckus installation at a convention hotel. They just couldn't believe that 300 people could max out their system when congregated into the main meeting room with two (2) access points. They had Bill Gates Syndrome: no group will ever exceed 1000 devices. (cf: No one will ever need more than 640KB of DRAM) Last year, the group AVERAGED four devices each. The problem didn't abate when the group spread out throughout the hotel, either. Just the symptoms changed.
