Re: Copper Termination Blocks

[bzs]

Gratuitous anecdote:

When we moved into 1330 Beacon Street, Brookline, MA (the SS Pierce
Building, 19th c) the phone closet had knob & bolt copper termination
blocks.

At some point the telco, then New England Telephone, came to replace
them with 66 blocks.

As they worked I joked that they look like Alexander Graham Bell put
these in himself!

One replied:

Well, this is a prominent building, and Bell was the founder of New
England Telephone, so there is a pretty good chance he did or stood
right here managing.

-- 
-Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

Re: Copper Termination Blocks

[Martin Hannigan]

On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 8:57 PM Shane Ronan  wrote:

> I think you'd be very surprised if you walked into the central offices of
> MANY of the large LECs.
>
> The majority of the wire frames are gone, replaced with fiber, even where
> the service is delivered as copper to the end user, it's usually served
> from something fiber fed much closer to the end user.
>


I'm in LEC CO's a lot. I'm not seeing this.



> I can tell you that one MAJOR LEC has a major push going on to retire ALL
> copper.
>

I'm sure they are. TDM has been on the target list for years and LEC's
still pay cross connect fees on TDM services. They're getting out of the
network, but not quickly and not if they are printing money.

Warm regards,

-M<

Weekly Global IPv4 Routing Table Report

[Routing Table Analysis Role Account]

This is an automated weekly mailing describing the state of the Global
IPv4 Routing Table as seen from APNIC's router in Japan.

The posting is sent to APOPS, NANOG, AfNOG, SANOG, PacNOG, SAFNOG
TZNOG, MENOG, BJNOG, SDNOG, CMNOG, LACNOG and the RIPE Routing WG.

Daily listings are sent to bgp-st...@lists.apnic.net.

For historical data, please see https://thyme.apnic.net.

If you have any comments please contact Philip Smith .

IPv4 Routing Table Report   04:00 +10GMT Sat 16 Apr, 2022

  BGP Table (Global) as seen in Japan.

Report Website: https://thyme.apnic.net
Detailed Analysis:  https://thyme.apnic.net/current/

Analysis Summary


BGP routing table entries examined:  896801
Prefixes after maximum aggregation (per Origin AS):  337333
Deaggregation factor:  2.66
Unique aggregates announced (without unneeded subnets):  429950
Total ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 73005
Prefixes per ASN: 12.28
Origin-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:   62657
Origin ASes announcing only one prefix:   25706
Transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:   10348
Transit-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:372
Average AS path length visible in the Internet Routing Table:   4.4
Max AS path length visible:  65
Max AS path prepend of ASN (267602)  58
Prefixes from unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table:  1047
Number of instances of unregistered ASNs:  1053
Number of 32-bit ASNs allocated by the RIRs:  39109
Number of 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table:   32469
Prefixes from 32-bit ASNs in the Routing Table:  152871
Number of bogon 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table:28
Special use prefixes present in the Routing Table:1
Prefixes being announced from unallocated address space:668
Number of addresses announced to Internet:   3067665792
Equivalent to 182 /8s, 216 /16s and 221 /24s
Percentage of available address space announced:   82.9
Percentage of allocated address space announced:   82.9
Percentage of available address space allocated:  100.0
Percentage of address space in use by end-sites:   99.5
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  303952

APNIC Region Analysis Summary
-

Prefixes being announced by APNIC Region ASes:   235767
Total APNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation:   66532
APNIC Deaggregation factor:3.54
Prefixes being announced from the APNIC address blocks:  230569
Unique aggregates announced from the APNIC address blocks:94543
APNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:   12548
APNIC Prefixes per ASN:   18.37
APNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix:   3569
APNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:   1725
Average APNIC Region AS path length visible:4.7
Max APNIC Region AS path length visible: 27
Number of APNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table:   7750
Number of APNIC addresses announced to Internet:  774131456
Equivalent to 46 /8s, 36 /16s and 79 /24s
APNIC AS Blocks4608-4864, 7467-7722, 9216-10239, 17408-18431
(pre-ERX allocations)  23552-24575, 37888-38911, 45056-46079, 55296-56319,
   58368-59391, 63488-64098, 64297-64395, 131072-151865
APNIC Address Blocks 1/8,  14/8,  27/8,  36/8,  39/8,  42/8,  43/8,
49/8,  58/8,  59/8,  60/8,  61/8, 101/8, 103/8,
   106/8, 110/8, 111/8, 112/8, 113/8, 114/8, 115/8,
   116/8, 117/8, 118/8, 119/8, 120/8, 121/8, 122/8,
   123/8, 124/8, 125/8, 126/8, 133/8, 150/8, 153/8,
   163/8, 171/8, 175/8, 180/8, 182/8, 183/8, 202/8,
   203/8, 210/8, 211/8, 218/8, 219/8, 220/8, 221/8,
   222/8, 223/8,

ARIN Region Analysis Summary


Prefixes being announced by ARIN Region ASes:260766
Total ARIN prefixes after maximum aggregation:   119680
ARIN Deaggregation factor: 2.18
Prefixes being announced from the ARIN address blocks:   260793
Unique aggregates announced from the ARIN address blocks:124356
ARIN Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:18991
ARIN Prefixes per ASN:   

Re: Copper Termination Blocks

[Tom Beecher]

>
> I always found the spades (?) of the 66 block to be convenient to clip a
> test set (with an angled bed of nails) onto.  I've also used slip on
> jack more than a few times, especially for testing.  E.g.
>

I agree that 66 blocks were always simpler for testing and troubleshooting,
but I always liked Krones and 110s better.  66 blocks were too easy for
someone to double punch or do otherwise derpy things on. Not that such
things couldn't be done on Krone/110, but I always felt it at least
required a little more dedication. :)

That and all the forearm burns from me being stupid and leaning on the wall
to discover not everything in there was low voltage like I was told it
was...

On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 8:43 PM Grant Taylor via NANOG 
wrote:

> On 4/14/22 2:05 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > I know I'm discussing what some consider ancient technology. I counter
> > that it meets or exceeds the needs of many, many people.
>
> As people say, "if it isn't broken, don't fix it".  --  That being said,
> I believe the third stanza is missing; "Optimize it."
>
> > Currently, we use 100-pr Telect-style termination blocks. They don't
> > offer much in terms of ease of use for testing and don't organize
> > well on a 19" or 23" rack.
>
> I always found the spades (?) of the 66 block to be convenient to clip a
> test set (with an angled bed of nails) onto.  I've also used slip on
> jack more than a few times, especially for testing.  E.g.
>
> Link - 66 block to RJ-45
>   - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F3W7NL4
>
> > I was recommended to look at Krone blocks. They look just great. Easy
> > to break into for testing with their "look both ways" plug as well
> > as their preterminated blocks looked much easier to rack-mount.
>
> I've never run into Krone myself.
>
> I found that using the two sides of a 66 block with bridge clips to be
> convenient for testing.  Especially for building and / or floor entrance
> points.  E.g. incoming network on the left side, outgoing station on the
> right side, and bridge clips connecting the two.  Any time I need to
> test, pull the bridge clips to split the circuit in a way that's equally
> as easy to put back.
>
> Sure, this technique burns more 66 block / wall space.  But I found it
> to be worth while in some use cases, like building entry.
>
> > Any recommendations for places to get old telco blocks, testers,
> > mounts, etc.?
> >
> > Any recommendations for alternatives that are easier to source?
>
> I look forward to learning from recommendations on this thread.
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
>

Re: Copper Termination Blocks

[Tom Beecher]

Marty knows a thing or two about the history and current state of affairs
in this world :)

Pretty much all of the major LECs have set the goal of full copper
retirement. But that is a long way away.


On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 8:58 PM Shane Ronan  wrote:

> I think you'd be very surprised if you walked into the central offices of
> MANY of the large LECs.
>
> The majority of the wire frames are gone, replaced with fiber, even where
> the service is delivered as copper to the end user, it's usually served
> from something fiber fed much closer to the end user.
>
> I can tell you that one MAJOR LEC has a major push going on to retire ALL
> copper.
>
> Shane
>
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 6:54 PM Martin Hannigan 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Its not ancient. While cooper based products are slowly fading they still
>> matter. Im using 66 blocks to accommodate gauge/voltage for dial tone in
>> all facilities.  Lots of OOB still happens via copper dial tone or DSL.
>> Show me one LEC that has torn down their wire frame?
>>
>> We bought new.  Im seeing this product on the intertubes new at $18 per
>> block. We didn’t mount distribution from LEC in rack. Instead we placed the
>> standard 5/8’s plywood backboard and mounted there. We transition to a 110
>> block in a rack over ladder tray via ABAM cable to deliver to the back of a
>> 110  block and patch from front. Not perfect, but cost effective, easy to
>> manage and simple. It works.
>>
>> Warm regards,
>>
>> -M<
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 16:14 Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> I know I'm discussing what some consider ancient technology. I counter
>>> that it meets or exceeds the needs of many, many people.
>>>
>>> Currently, we use 100-pr Telect-style termination blocks. They don't
>>> offer much in terms of ease of use for testing and don't organize well on a
>>> 19" or 23" rack.
>>>
>>> I was recommended to look at Krone blocks. They look just great. Easy to
>>> break into for testing with their "look both ways" plug as well as their
>>> preterminated blocks looked much easier to rack-mount.
>>>
>>> Well, Krone was bought by ADC. ADC was bought by Tyco Electronics. TE
>>> was bought by Commscope. Commscope discontinued everything I found
>>> interesting with no replacements.
>>>
>>>
>>> Some of the stuff is on eBay (even NIB), some not.
>>>
>>> Any recommendations for places to get old telco blocks, testers, mounts,
>>> etc.?
>>>
>>> Any recommendations for alternatives that are easier to source?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>> Midwest-IX
>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>>
>>

Re: Copper Termination Blocks

[Mike Hammett]

The problem with the Telect-style is that ever time we need to test a given 
pair, we have to pull it off, it ends up breaking, we test, then re-wrap it 
back on, losing an inch or so each time. For problem loops, this takes a 
sizable amount of wire out of one pair in the 25-pair bundle, then creating 
other issues. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Shawn L"  
To: "Dave Phelps"  
Cc: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG"  
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2022 5:00:23 PM 
Subject: Re: Copper Termination Blocks 


I'd still go with telect-style blocks. Wire-wrap on the front and amphenol on 
the back/bottom depending you application. Way less space than 66 or 110. 

-Original Message- 
From: "Dave Phelps"  
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2022 4:27pm 
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "NANOG"  
Subject: Re: Copper Termination Blocks 




Hi Mike. I used Krone blocks back in the mid 90s. I really liked them. 
I'm afraid now your long-term options now are probably straight old 66 or 110 
blocks. 66 blocks give some added flexibility. 110s are more efficient as far 
as space consumed compared to 66 blocks. Krone and 110s have a very similar 
profile. 
Depending on how much copper you're terminating, you may want to plan the frame 
layout for cross-connect field space before building the frame. You don't want 
to end up with too much cross-connect wire volume in too small an area. That 
can get troublesome. 
Happy to discuss specifics. Just ping me off-list. 


On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 3:13 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 

I know I'm discussing what some consider ancient technology. I counter that it 
meets or exceeds the needs of many, many people. 

Currently, we use 100-pr Telect-style termination blocks. They don't offer much 
in terms of ease of use for testing and don't organize well on a 19" or 23" 
rack. 

I was recommended to look at Krone blocks. They look just great. Easy to break 
into for testing with their "look both ways" plug as well as their 
preterminated blocks looked much easier to rack-mount. 

Well, Krone was bought by ADC. ADC was bought by Tyco Electronics. TE was 
bought by Commscope. Commscope discontinued everything I found interesting with 
no replacements. 


Some of the stuff is on eBay (even NIB), some not. 

Any recommendations for places to get old telco blocks, testers, mounts, etc.? 

Any recommendations for alternatives that are easier to source? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

Re: Copper Termination Blocks

[Mike Hammett]

*nods* 


We're just a CLEC in Frontier space, so they do the heavy lifting. We just need 
to interface the open-ended 100-pair cables Frontier gives us with our 
Occam\Calix gear. Given the "thoroughness" of the Frontier testing and 
troubleshooting process, we've taken up testing the customer pairs ourselves. 
Distance to fault, what kind of fault, etc. Telling them that info helps 
actually get things fixed more quickly. 


The most we have in any CO is 400 pair. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Dave Phelps"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "NANOG"  
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2022 3:27:59 PM 
Subject: Re: Copper Termination Blocks 



Hi Mike. I used Krone blocks back in the mid 90s. I really liked them. 



I'm afraid now your long-term options now are probably straight old 66 or 110 
blocks. 66 blocks give some added flexibility. 110s are more efficient as far 
as space consumed compared to 66 blocks. Krone and 110s have a very similar 
profile. 



Depending on how much copper you're terminating, you may want to plan the frame 
layout for cross-connect field space before building the frame. You don't want 
to end up with too much cross-connect wire volume in too small an area. That 
can get troublesome. 



Happy to discuss specifics. Just ping me off-list. 



On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 3:13 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 


I know I'm discussing what some consider ancient technology. I counter that it 
meets or exceeds the needs of many, many people. 

Currently, we use 100-pr Telect-style termination blocks. They don't offer much 
in terms of ease of use for testing and don't organize well on a 19" or 23" 
rack. 

I was recommended to look at Krone blocks. They look just great. Easy to break 
into for testing with their "look both ways" plug as well as their 
preterminated blocks looked much easier to rack-mount. 

Well, Krone was bought by ADC. ADC was bought by Tyco Electronics. TE was 
bought by Commscope. Commscope discontinued everything I found interesting with 
no replacements. 


Some of the stuff is on eBay (even NIB), some not. 

Any recommendations for places to get old telco blocks, testers, mounts, etc.? 

Any recommendations for alternatives that are easier to source? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

FYI - ARIN submission in response to FCC 22-90 on Secure Internet Routing

[John Curran]

NANOGers -

As noted earlier, the FCC is in the midst of a consultation right now regarding 
vulnerabilities threatening the security and integrity of the Border Gateway 
Protocol (BGP).

Please note that ARIN did file comments on this docket, and they may found 
online here in our government engagement section of the ARIN website -  
https://www.arin.net/about/relations/governance/documents/

Best wishes,
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
American Registry for Internet Numbers


On 4 Apr 2022, at 9:59 PM, John Curran 
mailto:jcur...@arin.net>> wrote:

Along these lines, I’d like to remind everyone of a fairly important 
consultation that Andrew Hadenfeldt posted here last month 
 –

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/03/11/2022-05121/secure-internet-routing
https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-launches-inquiry-internet-routing-vulnerabilities

(FCC) seeks comment on vulnerabilities threatening the security and integrity of
the Border Gateway Protocol (BGP), which is central to the Internet's global
routing system, its impact on the transmission of data from email,
e-commerce, and bank transactions to interconnected Voice-over Internet
Protocol (VoIP) and 9-1-1 calls, and how best to address them.

Comments are due on or before April 11, 2022

If you have particular views on this important consultation, please take the 
time to file comments as appropriate.

Re: Copper Termination Blocks

[nanog]

When I ran the largest (legacy) dialup ISP in Phoenix in the late 90's 
(2000+ POTS lines over a couple sites), we ordered huge frames of 66 
blocks... like someone else said better for troubleshooting because you 
could pull the bridge clips to test each side and/or troubleshooting 
better (or jam pennies between the bridge clips to bypass broken lines 
when you needed to.)


20 years later moved to rack mounted 110 blocks for the occasional POTS 
line or T1, way better density and we weren't chasing 30+ broken POTS 
lines at a time they were just customer lines and they could deal 
with it.  :)


bill


On 4/14/2022 5:42 PM, Grant Taylor via NANOG wrote:

On 4/14/22 2:05 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
I know I'm discussing what some consider ancient technology. I counter 
that it meets or exceeds the needs of many, many people.


As people say, "if it isn't broken, don't fix it".  --  That being said, 
I believe the third stanza is missing; "Optimize it."


Currently, we use 100-pr Telect-style termination blocks. They don't 
offer much in terms of ease of use for testing and don't organize well 
on a 19" or 23" rack.


I always found the spades (?) of the 66 block to be convenient to clip a 
test set (with an angled bed of nails) onto.  I've also used slip on 
jack more than a few times, especially for testing.  E.g.


Link - 66 block to RJ-45
  - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F3W7NL4

I was recommended to look at Krone blocks. They look just great. Easy 
to break into for testing with their "look both ways" plug as well as 
their preterminated blocks looked much easier to rack-mount.


I've never run into Krone myself.

I found that using the two sides of a 66 block with bridge clips to be 
convenient for testing.  Especially for building and / or floor entrance 
points.  E.g. incoming network on the left side, outgoing station on the 
right side, and bridge clips connecting the two.  Any time I need to 
test, pull the bridge clips to split the circuit in a way that's equally 
as easy to put back.


Sure, this technique burns more 66 block / wall space.  But I found it 
to be worth while in some use cases, like building entry.


Any recommendations for places to get old telco blocks, testers, 
mounts, etc.?


Any recommendations for alternatives that are easier to source?


I look forward to learning from recommendations on this thread.






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