On Aug 13, 2010, at 1:55 PM, bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
could you provide 4 numbers for me please?
% of ARIN managed resource covered by standard RSA?
% of ARIN managed legacy resource covered by legacy RSA?
% of ARIN managed legacy resource not otherwise covered?
On 8/13/10 10:42 AM, Brandon Galbraith wrote:
Alternate #4: A rents the space to B without ARIN knowing it, while A
continues to claim that the space belongs to them.
This already happens as we speak with IP brokers.
~Seth
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 07:25:56PM +, Nathan Eisenberg said:
But the reality is that you asserted your intention to follow those
guidelines when you requested the allocation, did you not?
If an upstream accepts announcements from a revoked block, what is to stop
them from accepting
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:24:45 EDT, Ken Chase said:
I'm indicating (the probably obvious) that these pressures will certainly
increase over time, and as one other member pointed out, the sticks may become
neccessary - and the community will have to become more 'constitutionally
ethical' in
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 1:36 PM, John Levine jo...@iecc.com wrote:
http://www.circleid.com/posts/psst_interested_in_some_lightly_used_ip_addresses/
I don't entirely understand the process. Here's the flow chart as far
as I've figured it out:
1. A sells a /20 of IPv4 space to B for, say,
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 03:43:11PM -0400, John Curran wrote:
On Aug 13, 2010, at 1:55 PM, bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
could you provide 4 numbers for me please?
% of ARIN managed resource covered by standard RSA?
% of ARIN managed legacy resource covered by legacy
% of ARIN managed resource covered by standard RSA?
% of ARIN managed legacy resource covered by legacy RSA?
% of ARIN managed legacy resource not otherwise covered?
% of ARIN region entities (A B above) that have offices/relationships
with other RIRs that have a
Those who do not understand market are doomed to reimplementing it, badly.
How come ARIN has any say at all if A wants to sell and B wants to buy? Trying
to fend off the imaginary monopolistic hobgoblin?
Or simply killing the incentive to actually do something about conservation
and, yes,
How come ARIN has any say at all if A wants to sell and B wants to
buy? Trying to fend off the imaginary monopolistic hobgoblin?
self-justification for arin's existence, flying people around to lotso
meetings, fancy hotels, ...
at the rirs, income and control are more important than the health
On Aug 13, 2010, at 4:18 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
We'll work on generating these numbers to the extent
possible for the upcoming meeting; back in April, I noted
that we had about 21% of the legacy space (by total IP
address count) under an LRSA (6%) or RSA (15%). For now,
this is first
We'll work on generating these numbers to the extent
possible for the upcoming meeting; back in April, I noted
that we had about 21% of the legacy space (by total IP
address count) under an LRSA (6%) or RSA (15%). For now,
this is first order estimate for your second and third
On Aug 13, 2010, at 4:37 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
thanks. but i meant when you report at meeting, on web site, whatever.
please report both, not just the one with the larger number.
Yes, will do.
/John
thanks. but i meant when you report at meeting, on web site, whatever.
please report both, not just the one with the larger number.
Yes, will do.
thanks
randy
On Aug 13, 2010, at 4:35 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
How come ARIN has any say at all if A wants to sell and B wants to
buy? Trying to fend off the imaginary monopolistic hobgoblin?
self-justification for arin's existence, flying people around to lotso
meetings, fancy hotels, ...
at the rirs,
(and to answer Randy - the only control over the administration is based
on the policies adopted. Reduce the corpus of applicable policy if that
is your desire.)
we created careers for junior policiy weenies. arin and other rirs have
become well-funded playgrounds for the semi-clued who
I know of several large providers that would stop routing such rogue space.
Any provider that isn't prepared to deal with such a possible customer threat
or problem you don't want to be associating with. They likely harbor other
badness as well.
It may take some time to catch up to them but
I've tried to deal with that a few times - mainly by writing up the
first upstream AS. Usually they don't care (and every time I have
noticed someone blatantly stealing space, it's been spammers).
Has there ever been a case where ARIN has tried to take a block back
from a party to whom they had
On 13/08/10 21:04 -, John Levine wrote:
I've tried to deal with that a few times - mainly by writing up the
first upstream AS. Usually they don't care (and every time I have
noticed someone blatantly stealing space, it's been spammers).
Has there ever been a case where ARIN has tried to
On Aug 13, 2010, at 4:06 PM, bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
my assertion to Owen was that his views would apply directly
to the folks under a standard RSA. My reading of the
LRSA suggests that ARIN has a much narrower remit on recovery
of resources covered by
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 05:00:04PM -0400, Jared Mauch said:
I know of several large providers that would stop routing such rogue
space.
Really? They'd take a seriously delinquent (and we're only talking about non
payment after several months to Arin, not spammers or other 'criminal'
elements)
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 04:18:01PM -0500, Dan White said:
Make a public example of the situation. Assign such a block to an ARIN
member with extensive legal resources who's willing to send some nasty
letters out, and back it up with court action to establish legal
precedence.
Or ARIN
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 05:19:20PM -0400, John Curran wrote:
if this characterization is in ballpark, then Owens view on
reclaimation only holds for ~30% of the resource under ARIN
administration.
31% (33/106) of the address space managed by ARIN is per-RSA,
and ARIN's
]
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 5:00 PM
To: Greg Whynott
Cc: Nathan Eisenberg; nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Lightly used IP addresses
I know of several large providers that would stop routing such rogue space.
Any provider that isn't prepared to deal with such a possible customer threat
or problem
to make it easiest to understand, i might grind it up into /24
equivalents and present as percentages
Type % of all space% of type space% of total holders % of type
holders
RSA 31%
no-RSA
LRSA 6%
no-LRSA
...
I'm not against ARIN, I think they have good intentions. I'd like to think
so
anyway.
Same here. I'm honestly surprised that there is as much dissention from this
attitude as there seems to be...
Yes, we have returns, revocations, and reclamations occurring routinely.
They're covered
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 09:39:42PM +, bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com said:
Thanks for this John. My hope is that folks will try and
avoid using the courts as the arbitor in the event of
dispute over right to use.
--bill
Civil courts is one thing - criminal courts
John - you do not get it...
First of all, I don't want your organization to have ANY policy at all.
Being just a title company for IP blocks is well and good - and can be
easily done at maybe 1% of your budget. Title companies do not tell
people if they can buy or sell, they just record the
Randy Bush wrote:
(and to answer Randy - the only control over the administration is based
on the policies adopted. Reduce the corpus of applicable policy if that
is your desire.)
we created careers for junior policiy weenies. arin and other rirs have
become well-funded playgrounds for the
First of all, I don't want your organization to have ANY policy at all.
Where'd you get your AS number, again?
On Aug 13, 2010, at 6:33 PM, Vadim Antonov wrote:
John - you do not get it...
First of all, I don't want your organization to have ANY policy at all.
Unfortunately, Vadim, even No Policy *is* a policy.
Being just a title company for IP blocks is well and good - and can be
easily done at
On Aug 13, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
to make it easiest to understand, i might grind it up into /24
equivalents and present as percentages
Acknowledged,
/John
If you know of actual fraud or abuse, please report it to ARIN. ARIN does
investigate and attempt to resolve those issues.
Owen
On Aug 13, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Andrew Kirch wrote:
Jeff,
Go for it. I've always wondered what ARIN had between it's legs.
Andrew
On 8/13/2010 1:53 PM,
On Aug 13, 2010, at 11:31 AM, Ken Chase wrote:
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 02:15:51PM -0400, John R. Levine said:
I don't entirely understand the process. Here's the flow chart as far
as I've figured it out:
1. A sells a /20 of IPv4 space to B for, say, $5,000
2. A tells ARIN to transfer
On Aug 13, 2010, at 6:03 PM, Ken Chase wrote:
I don't know what to suggest, but perhaps a more binding set of policies for
ARIN members to engage in policing/responding to shutdown requests on the
community's behalf and some penalties for not upholding agreements is in
order.
Ken -
Be
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 4:25 PM, Vadim Antonov a...@kotovnik.com wrote:
How come ARIN has any say at all if A wants to sell and
B wants to buy? Trying to fend off the imaginary
monopolistic hobgoblin?
Because that portion of the address-using community, people just like
you, that shows up and
John - you do not get it...
vadim, i assure you curran gets it. he has been around as long as you
and i. the problem is that he has become a fiduciary of an organization
which sees its survival and growth as its principal goal, free business
class travel for wannabe policy wonks as secondary,
Yet most of the bad ideas in the past 15 years have actually come from
the IETF (TLA's, no end site multihoming, RA religion), some of which
have actually been fixed by the RIR's.
no, they were fixed within the ietf. that's my blood you are taking
about, and i know where and by whom it was
Nathan,
On Aug 13, 2010, at 2:51 PM, Nathan Eisenberg wrote:
I'm not against ARIN, I think they have good intentions. I'd like to think
so anyway.
Same here. I'm honestly surprised that there is as much dissention from this
attitude as there seems to be...
I suspect the issue arises
Here I know we have eaten costs of term liability and cancelled
contracts more than the dollar figures you have mentioned below to
keep the net clean. Sad that it appears you may not be willing to put
the money where your mouth is.
how noble of you. and how perceptive to equate legitimate
On Aug 13, 2010, at 10:55 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
...
if the iana could get out from under lawyers and domainer greed, and go
back to simply being bookkeeper for the internet, they could do the
automated solution today. well, with some months of setup. and we
could get rid of 95% of the costs
If the allocation and reassignment of address space has no policy
associated with it, then there's no doubt that most of the registry
functions can be automated, and there's no need for the associated
policy development process, public policy meetings, travel, conference
calls. Quite a bit
the fracking rirs, in the name of marla and and lee, actually went to
the ietf last month with a proposal to push address policy back to the
ietf from the ops. and they just did not get thomas's proposal to
move more policy from ietf back to ops.
and, to continue the red herring with jc, i
On Aug 13, 2010, at 11:32 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
If the allocation and reassignment of address space has no policy
associated with it, then there's no doubt that most of the registry
functions can be automated, and there's no need for the associated
policy development process, public policy
one start would be for arin to have the guts not to pay travel
expenses of non-employees/contractors.
ARIN Suggestion process:
https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/index.html
If you submit it, I will bring it to the Board for consideration. In
fairness, I will tell you that I'll also
On Aug 14, 2010, at 12:17 AM, Randy Bush wrote:
thanks for reaffirming that talking to arin is a waste of time.
If you're going to recommend that we not pay for travel for the
ARIN AC, I'm going to recommend otherwise and point out that the
AC members need to hear from the community, and
John,
I will concur with Randy that much of the travel that ARIN funds is
excessive. ARIN has a booth at trade shows so i'm going to guess that
entire setup with travel costs about $20,000 - 50,000 per show. Why?
To convince me to use ARIN for my IP space needs? To convince us to
switch to IPv6?
Funny!
On one hand people talk about ARIN providing IP allocation at nearly zero cost
and on the other hand talking that ARIN goes after companies that use their
allocation for abuse (which has a non trivial cost and potential expensive
lawsuits)...
Do you know what you want?
On Aug 14, 2010, at 12:12 AM, Jeffrey Lyon wrote:
ARIN needs to investigate these companies and start reclaiming space.
Pose as a customer, see if they'll sell you a /24 or shorter on a
dedicated server for some arbitrary reason, and if so they're busted.
From there launch a full
John,
I have privately e-mailed you 5 x /18 and 3 x /19 that are being
abused. If ARIN takes action against even one of these allocations I
will commend you publicly. I'll go do the investigation for you if you
need evidence.
Best regards, Jeff
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 9:07 AM, John Curran
On Aug 13, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Jeffrey Lyon wrote:
Vendors are neglecting to support IPv6 because there is no demand.
It would probably be useful to be public about which vendors are still saying
there is no demand for IPv6.
Meanwhile, there are hosting companies, dedicated server companies,
On Aug 14, 2010, at 1:00 AM, Jeffrey Lyon wrote:
John,
I have privately e-mailed you 5 x /18 and 3 x /19 that are being
abused. If ARIN takes action against even one of these allocations I
will commend you publicly. I'll go do the investigation for you if you
need evidence.
I'm not
You seem to be suggesting that ARIN (and presumably the other RIRs)
invest more in policing the address space and otherwise regulating the
market. How much are you willing to pay for that service?
and how would it make the internet any better?
randy
On Aug 14, 2010, at 12:32 AM, Jeffrey Lyon wrote:
John,
I will concur with Randy that much of the travel that ARIN funds is
excessive. ARIN has a booth at trade shows so i'm going to guess that
entire setup with travel costs about $20,000 - 50,000 per show. Why?
To convince me to use ARIN
I'm not sure it would make the internet better but it would reinforce
integrity in a general sense. If we're to get away with lying on
justification I might as well go grab a few /18's before the last /8
is issued.
Jeff
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote:
You seem
I'm not sure it would make the internet better
then i don't want to pay for it. if you have not noticed, money is
tight, and it ain't gonna get better.
randy
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