Re: Telecom Collapse?

Also, where I live, if the power goes out hard (for example, during the last Hurricane), the cell phone will not have service either. hello What about GPS ? simply sending such data would help more then a "unreliable mobile phone call " right ? (we have enough places where i live an

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Aaron Wendel wrote: Hmm... Florida and the entire Gulf Coast and probably Eastern US... Hurricanes, and the West Coast, Earthquakes... and the northern US, severe winter storms. Where does that leave? Utah? Everyone move to Utah! Aaron Inland Pacific NW. Minor (but really minor) earthquake

RE: Telecom Collapse?

: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:34 AM To: David Cantrell Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Telecom Collapse? David Cantrell wrote: > A "natural disaster prone location" would, by a normal person, be > taken to be one where there is a high probability of being visited by > nature'

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Jack Bates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yeah, I've been telling them for years that everyone should just vacate > Oklahoma, and Kansas. And anywhere in Florida within 50 miles of the coast. -- Ben

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Dec 5, 2008, at 10:07 AM, David Cantrell wrote: On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 09:21:53AM -0500, Marshall Eubanks wrote: On Dec 5, 2008, at 9:01 AM, David Cantrell wrote: On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 11:08:49AM -0600, Jack Bates wrote: Unless you live in a natural disaster prone location. So don't d

Re: Telecom Collapse?

David Cantrell wrote: A "natural disaster prone location" would, by a normal person, be taken to be one where there is a high probability of being visited by nature's Fuckup Fairies. Such as flood plains (eg much of the Thames estuary) and the sides of active volcanoes (Naples). Most places hav

RE: Telecom Collapse?

PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:01 AM To: Jack Bates Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Telecom Collapse? On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 11:08:49AM -0600, Jack Bates wrote: > 911 services are heavily used when a geographical area has an emergency, > and that emergency usually includes not

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 09:21:53AM -0500, Marshall Eubanks wrote: > On Dec 5, 2008, at 9:01 AM, David Cantrell wrote: > >On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 11:08:49AM -0600, Jack Bates wrote: > >>Unless you live in a natural disaster prone location. > >So don't do that. > There is literarily no place on the p

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Dec 5, 2008, at 9:01 AM, David Cantrell wrote: On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 11:08:49AM -0600, Jack Bates wrote: 911 services are heavily used when a geographical area has an emergency, and that emergency usually includes not having power. Yes, and it usually involves several thousand people

RE: [SPAM-HEADER] - Re: Telecom Collapse?

Folks, I doubt the incumbents are the most vulnerable in this situation. It is debt-laden competitive providers that face the greatest difficulty. Look at balance sheets and who is struggling to generate a profit or who has never generated a profit. Roderick S. Beck Director of European Sal

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 11:08:49AM -0600, Jack Bates wrote: > 911 services are heavily used when a geographical area has an emergency, > and that emergency usually includes not having power. Yes, and it usually involves several thousand people all phoning to report the same damned thing, cloggin

Re: Telecom Collapse?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Paul Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure > it might be of interest to this community: > > http://techliberation.c

RE: Telecom Collapse?

Even "disconnected" customers due to non-pay have access to E-911 Frank -Original Message- From: b nickell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:12 PM To: Russell J. Lahti Cc: nanog@nanog.org; Alex Rubenstein Subject: Re: Telecom Collapse? I b

Re: Telecom Collapse?

as > my POTS line is more reliable than VoIP, I'll probably keep it. > > -Russell > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Mike Lyon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 2:11 AM > > To: Alex Rubenstein > > Cc: nanog@nanog.org

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Skywing wrote: No POTS line here. New office is all VoIP, too. For my own use, though, I'm sticking with cell. Don't recall the last time that there was an outage to the point where I couldn't make a voice call in the past few years (though I've seen EVDO data go down for my region and have

RE: Telecom Collapse?

vance warning to get out of harm's way. (Not that I would have to worry about hurricanes in the middle of the continental US, anyway.) - S -Original Message- From: Chris Marlatt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:07 AM To: Paul Stewart; nanog@nanog.

RE: Telecom Collapse?

t: RE: Telecom Collapse? In the past, an inactive cell phone could still dial 911. I'm not sure if that's still the case, but it used to be, at least with some carriers. Chuck -Original Message- From: Russell J. Lahti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 7:18 PM, Michael Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We haven't really had a major catastrophe where we've been totally > dependent on IP yet, AFIAK. Maybe all of the qos, call gapping and > the rest of the stuff the TDM networks do to deal with disasters > will be left

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 11:10:57PM -0800, Mike Lyon wrote: > Anyways, for residential VOIP, where are we these days with E911? Are > providers like Vonage and such providing reliable E911 when people > call 911? That is one of the major problems I see with the residential > realm going with VOIP of

Re: Telecom Collapse?

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:59:00 PST, Paul Ferguson said: > I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it > might be of interest to this community: > > http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-co

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Lorell Hathcock wrote: The classic problem of the ILECs is that they have a government backed monopoly on the local loops everywhere and they leverage that monopoly to compete with companies that don't have government backing. Monopoly? Really? I could have sworn someone devised the idea of CLE

Re: Telecom Collapse?

The Verizon lay-offs article you linked to ("Verizon just laid off thousands of people ") in the blog post is dated December 29, *2002* Cheers, Jayfar On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Jim Cowie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

RE: Telecom Collapse?

, 2008 3:10 PM To: 'Chris Adams'; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Telecom Collapse? The ILEC is the carrier of last resort. The wireless carrier doesn't have to build coverage everywhere. They don't need to serve that hog barn that requires a 10,000 feet copper loop while playing

RE: Telecom Collapse?

PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:24 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Telecom Collapse? On Thu, 4 Dec 2008, Frank Bulk wrote: > The ILEC is the carrier of last resort. The wireless carrier doesn't have > to build coverage everywhere. They don't need to serve that

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Erik (Caneris) wrote: > > So it can be argued both ways. Ultimately, it all comes down to marketing and > hype. With everything going to IP at both the core and edge (yes, I chose the > terms deliberately) and analogue-digital-analogue or TDM-IP-TDM-IP > conversation happening so many times, th

RE: Telecom Collapse?

's not VoIP, it's IP telephony" (I'm not kidding). Regards, -- Erik Caneris Tel: 647-723-6365 Fax: 647-723-5365 Toll-free: 1-866-827-0021 www.caneris.com From: Chris Marlatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:06 AM To:

RE: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, 4 Dec 2008, Frank Bulk wrote: The ILEC is the carrier of last resort. The wireless carrier doesn't have to build coverage everywhere. They don't need to serve that hog barn that requires a 10,000 feet copper loop while playing $17/month. They gladly hit you up for an FCC mandated uni

RE: Telecom Collapse?

d services. Frank -Original Message- From: Chris Adams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:48 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Telecom Collapse? Once upon a time, Paul Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > I deliberated for a while on whether to send t

RE: [SPAM-HEADER] - Re: Telecom Collapse? - Email has different SMTP TO: and MIME TO: fields in the email addresses

I am not sure. Business lines are significantly higher priced than residential lines and the conventional wisdom was that there is a cross sudsidy. How it shakes out across all phone lines is unclear to me. A lot depends on the economic realism of depreciation schedule. I'm not familiar with h

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:18:42 -0800 Michael Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Joe Abley wrote: > > This is straying far from network operations, but I think 911 > > generally engenders an unnecessary degree of hysteria. As I > > suggested before, the marketing of this fear from certain quarters >

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Joe Abley wrote: This is straying far from network operations, but I think 911 generally engenders an unnecessary degree of hysteria. As I suggested before, the marketing of this fear from certain quarters has apparently been quiet effective. The probability of any single individual needing t

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 08:48:27AM -0600, Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, Paul Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it > > might be of interest to this community: > > > > http://tech

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Dec 4, 2008, at 12:20 PM, Wayne E. Bouchard wrote: That the old ILECs are having problems due to the fact that few if any of them know how to run a decent business is not exactly news. IMO, it might be best if some of them were finaly placed in the position of figuring out how to come into the

Re: Telecom Collapse?

> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Wayne E. Bouchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That the old ILECs are having problems due to the fact that few if any > > of them know how to run a decent business is not exactly news. IMO, it > > might be best if some of them were finaly placed in the position

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Daniel Senie wrote: Mike Lyon wrote: That makes two of us... Anyways, for residential VOIP, where are we these days with E911? Are providers like Vonage and such providing reliable E911 when people call 911? That is one of the major problems I see with the residential realm going with VOIP o

Re: Telecom Collapse?

for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure >> it >> might be of interest to this community: >> >> http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collapse/ >> >> - - ferg >> >> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- >> Version:

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Wayne E. Bouchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That the old ILECs are having problems due to the fact that few if any > of them know how to run a decent business is not exactly news. IMO, it > might be best if some of them were finaly placed in the position of > fi

Re: Telecom Collapse?

For my own $0.02 worth, I would like to point out the kind of engineering that was done during the days of Ma Bell - when it was THE phone company, and had the world in it's pocket - was quite spectacular and resulted in telecommunications systems that largely stood up and continued functioni

Re: Telecom Collapse?

SHA1 > > I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it > might be of interest to this community: > > http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collapse/ > > - - ferg > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: PG

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Large scale Tesla coils would be pretty awesome :) On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Justin M. Streiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > On Thu, 4 Dec 2008, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: > > What about the cell site? See >> http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/12/03/ap5776571.html >> >>The FCC p

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, 4 Dec 2008, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: What about the cell site? See http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/12/03/ap5776571.html The FCC proposed in May 2007 that all cell towers have a minimum of eight hours of backup power, which would switch on if a tower lost it

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Joe Abley wrote: This is straying far from network operations, but I think 911 generally engenders an unnecessary degree of hysteria. As I suggested before, the marketing of this fear from certain quarters has apparently been quiet effective. Many will agree with you; unless 911 saved their l

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:59:00 PST, Paul Ferguson said: > I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it > might be of interest to this community: > > http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collapse/ The article goes on to quote some other sour

Re: Telecom Collapse?

There will always be exceptions to the rule. Nature can be quite ugly to service infrastructure and the best service providers can do is pull double duty to get services back up as quickly as possible. As you said, cellular was torn up pretty badly, but then again so was the power grid and the hard

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Paul Bosworth wrote: On a personal note, when I worked in telecom I never once saw a cell tower that was down due to power loss. Every tower I have worked with had some form of power generation, be it natural gas or diesel. In addition, as a cellular service consumer I have also never experienced

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On 2008-12-04, at 11:06, Chris Marlatt wrote: That's assuming they're not doing the same thing you are, are home, or are willing to let you borrow their phone. You're assuming a lot. I find it surprising that many people replying haven't kept a 911 only POTS line. This is straying far fro

RE: Telecom Collapse?

And it gets better: AT&T to reduce workforce by 12,000 - AT&T Inc. will layoff 12,000 of its employees, or 4 percent of its total workforce, in response to recent economic pressures. Sprint/Nextel has had negative net income of $326mm, $829mm, and $505mm for the last three quarters. Verizon s

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Paul Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: What worries me the most is a power outage longer than say 8 hours. This is the typical battery time at most cell sites, telco remotes and many telco CO's. Beyond those 8 hours, it's quite probable that the site will go

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Many proposed regulations are struck down before they become required regulation. Just like the FCC mandates that POTS and fiber have guaranteed battery, the FCC will mandate that cellular towers do the same. This is inevitable. The telco industry is notorious for litigating to death anything that

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Mike Lyon wrote: > That makes two of us... > > Anyways, for residential VOIP, where are we these days with E911? Are > providers like Vonage and such providing reliable E911 when people > call 911? That is one of the major problems I see with the residential > realm going with VOIP offerings... >

RE: Telecom Collapse?

> The AT&T (BellSouth) remotes around here installed in the last 10 years > or so typically have natural gas generators installed, and the COs have > a pair of generators for redundancy. Even many of the cell towers have > generators. The telco infrastructure is pretty well backed up (I don't > k

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:13:14 -0600 "Paul Bosworth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In my experience with a fiber to the home deployment I feel that the > trend of moving away from the stability of POTS lines for emergency > service is acceptable for most people. Most battery backups allow for > around

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Solar is civil defence - that goes for Node Bs as well as citizens. In the UK, I have absolutely no confidence in the reliability of our major cable op, because everywhere I go I find their street cabinets broken into, presumably by scum looking for copper (how long will they take to respond to th

Re: Telecom Collapse?

In my experience with a fiber to the home deployment I feel that the trend of moving away from the stability of POTS lines for emergency service is acceptable for most people. Most battery backups allow for around 36 hours of dialtone. The overwhelming majority of power outages last nowhere near th

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Paul Stewart wrote: > > There's at least two cell phones in our house whenever the family is > home and I have neighbors within quick walking distance. > That's assuming they're not doing the same thing you are, are home, or are willing to let you borrow their phone. You're assuming a lot. I fin

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Joe Abley wrote: > > I seem to remember when I *did* have dial-tone from Bell Canada I'd pick > up the handset and get dead air a disturbing proportion of the time. The > idea that copper wire-line providers are the only ones who can provide > stable telephony doesn't ring true, for me. There's a

Re: Telecom Collapse?

People have been digging up fiber thinking it's copper anyways, but yeah that's a big problem. On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Joe Greco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That is the one and only thing keeping a land line at my home. I > > have two young children, and I need to be sure that if some

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Once upon a time, Paul Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > What worries me the most is a power outage longer than say 8 hours. > This is the typical battery time at most cell sites, telco remotes and > many telco CO's. Beyond those 8 hours, it's quite probable that the > site will go down and you'

Re: Telecom Collapse?

> That is the one and only thing keeping a land line at my home. I > have two young children, and I need to be sure that if something > were to ever happen that: 1.) The phone would work even if the > power was out, or the Internet connectivity was flaking out. > 2.) 911 would function exactly the

RE: Telecom Collapse?

2008 10:33 AM To: Josh Potter Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Telecom Collapse? On 2008-12-04, at 09:47, Josh Potter wrote: > I believe there is a law that requires just that, even if you don't > have an > active service plan the phone must still be able to access 911. With GSM

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On 2008-12-04, at 09:47, Josh Potter wrote: I believe there is a law that requires just that, even if you don't have an active service plan the phone must still be able to access 911. With GSM phones you don't even need a SIM in the phone to call 911 (and equivalent numbers in other regio

RE: Telecom Collapse?

Message- >From: William Warren >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:02 AM >To: nanog@nanog.org >Subject: Re: Telecom Collapse? > >Chris Adams wrote: >> Once upon a time, Paul Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >> >>> I deliber

RE: Telecom Collapse?

nanog@nanog.org; 'Alex Rubenstein' >Subject: Re: Telecom Collapse? > > >On Dec 4, 2008, at 7:47 AM, Russell J. Lahti wrote: > >> That is the one and only thing keeping a land line at my home. I >> have two young children, and I need to be sure that if something &

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Paul Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it might be of interest to this community: http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collapse/ One thing doesn't make se

RE: VoIP E911 - was: Telecom Collapse?

:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:22 AM To: Mike Lyon Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: VoIP E911 - was: Telecom Collapse? With one provider in Canada at least, the E911 address to phone number registration is a large bureaucratic manual process, likely involving fax machines

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Once upon a time, Paul Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it > might be of interest to this community: > > http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collapse/ One thing doesn't make sense in

Re: Telecom Collapse?

es. As long as > my POTS line is more reliable than VoIP, I'll probably keep it. > > -Russell > > > > > -Original Message----- > > From: Mike Lyon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 2:11 AM > > To: Alex Rubenstein > &g

RE: Telecom Collapse?

ke Lyon'; 'Alex Rubenstein' Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Telecom Collapse? That is the one and only thing keeping a land line at my home. I have two young children, and I need to be sure that if something were to ever happen that: 1.) The phone would work even if the

VoIP E911 - was: Telecom Collapse?

With one provider in Canada at least, the E911 address to phone number registration is a large bureaucratic manual process, likely involving fax machines. Meanwhile, the ILEC presumably has an address in a database for the loop... So, I wonder about more direct access to PSAPs by CLEC, anywhere

Re: Telecom Collapse?

anog.org Subject: Re: Telecom Collapse? That makes two of us... Anyways, for residential VOIP, where are we these days with E911? Are providers like Vonage and such providing reliable E911 when people call 911? That is one of the major problems I see with the residential realm going with VOIP offering

RE: Telecom Collapse?

:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 2:11 AM > To: Alex Rubenstein > Cc: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: Telecom Collapse? > > That makes two of us... > > Anyways, for residential VOIP, where are we these days with > E911? Are providers like Vonage and

Re: Telecom Collapse?

at 11:06 PM, Alex Rubenstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure >> it might be of interest to this community: >> >> http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collapse/ > > Good god. If the

RE: Telecom Collapse?

> I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure > it might be of interest to this community: > > http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collapse/ Good god. If there is even the mention of a LEC bailout, I am going to go insane and probably shoot so

Telecom Collapse?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it might be of interest to this community: http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collapse/ - - ferg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP Desktop 9.6.3 (Build