- Original Message -
From: Chris Adams c...@cmadams.net
Once upon a time, Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com said:
Try to do everything *inside PID 1* is the real problem.
And that is not what systemd is doing; make sure you know what you are
complaining about. systemd-the-project !=
On 10/25/2014 04:55 PM, Matthew Petach wrote:
Completely agree on this point--but I fail to see why it has to be one
or the other? Why can't systemd have a --text flag to tell it to
output in ascii text mode for those of us who prefer it that way?
It still logs to syslog, and syslog can still
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 17:56:52 -0500, Jimmy Hess said:
The next thing you know, SystemD will add package management, ISO
building, and eliminate the need for Debian, Ubuntu, SuSE, Redhat,
Etc to even exist.
That's already on Lennart's to-do list, you know.
pgpsrz4mwPqsz.pgp
Description:
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Jim Mercer j...@reptiles.org wrote:
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 12:41:39AM -0400, Barry Shein wrote:
All those init.d scripts do about 95% the same thing, all hacked
together in shell. Most of them are probably just slightly edited
versions of some few
On 10/25/2014 08:12 AM, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
If all of the scripts are cut'n'paste copes of each other, wouldn't it
be better to figure out a way to stop cutting and pasting? I can't
count the number of times I've run into problems with my code because
of that, never mind how many times it's
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Stephen Satchell l...@satchell.net
wrote:
...
Oh, and I hate binary logs. Period. If you can't stand plain text,
then try XML. At least humans have a *chance* to read it without having
to make fancy reader tools.
Completely agree on this point--but I
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Matthew Petach mpet...@netflight.com wrote:
Why can't systemd have a --text flag to
tell it to output in ascii text mode for those
of us who prefer it that way?
It does.
--no-pager
--
Pete
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 01:55:43PM -0700, Matthew Petach wrote:
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Stephen Satchell l...@satchell.net
wrote:
Oh, and I hate binary logs. Period. If you can't stand plain text,
then try XML. At least humans have a *chance* to read it without having
to make
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 02:41:55PM -0700, Peter Baldridge wrote:
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Matthew Petach mpet...@netflight.com wrote:
Why can't systemd have a --text flag to
tell it to output in ascii text mode for those
of us who prefer it that way?
^
This | is not what that
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Stephen Satchell l...@satchell.net wrote:
The whole rc script thing strikes me as an interim solution that
required a minimum of code changes (graduate student project?) that went
viral. Bad as it was, it worked. Duct tape and bailing wire
[snip]
Systemd
I pled the Linux people to stay inside the unix philosophy to use text files.
Low newbies like me learn from reading config files, and fix thing by
reading log files, tryiing to make some sense of the error messages
there, and using the most suspicious line as the handle to google for
a solution
On 10/24/2014 03:35 AM, Tei wrote:
I pled the Linux people to stay inside the unix philosophy to use text files.
You do realize that the systemd config files are still text, right? As
to the binary journal, well, by default RHEL 7 (and rebuilds) do at
least mirror the journal output to
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 12:41:39AM -0400, Barry Shein wrote:
All those init.d scripts do about 95% the same thing, all hacked
together in shell. Most of them are probably just slightly edited
versions of some few paleo-scripts.
in FreeBSD, the bulk of the rc.d scripts are basically the same
All those init.d scripts do about 95% the same thing, all hacked
together in shell. Most of them are probably just slightly edited
versions of some few paleo-scripts.
Set the location of the pid file, set the path of the executable, set
the command line flags/options, maybe change some
- Original Message -
From: Barry Shein b...@world.std.com
On October 21, 2014 at 13:44 brun...@nic-naa.net (Eric
Brunner-Williams) wrote:
systemd is insanity.
see also smit.
SMIT! Rhymes with
For the record, smit is crazy cause AIX isn't really Unix; it's VM with a
thin
- Original Message -
From: Lamar Owen lo...@pari.edu
Speaking from my own experience, the actually relevant and
package-specific guts of the typical initscript could be easily
replaced by a simple text configuration that simply gives:
1.) What to start
2.) When to start it
Original Message -
From: Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us
If that doesn't suffice, then I suspect it will only require waiting
a little while until a demonstration of why monolithic integration
is a bad idea will be provided by someone who is at this moment
studying the
- Original Message -
On 22-10-2014 17:30, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
Hardly. The discussion so far has been weighted very heavily on the
side of Dana Carvey's Grumpy Old Man-style whining. That's the way
it was and we liked it!. The people that like systemd (like myself)
have wisely
Once upon a time, Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com said:
Try to do everything *inside PID 1* is the real problem.
And that is not what systemd is doing; make sure you know what you are
complaining about. systemd-the-project != systemd-the-pid-1. PID 1 is
responsible for managing services/daemons,
As lurker I just wanted to say this has been highly educational. (I'm new)
-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of *
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 12:57 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's
On 10/22/2014 08:20 PM, Simon Lyall wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014, Miles Fidelman wrote:
And maybe, you should check out some of the upstream bug reports re.
systemd interactions with NTP.
If you think the current situation is all good then maybe you should
look at other bugs for ntp. eg this
Systemd Blackhole is a very apt term as I am discovering.
I was once a linuxfromscratch superuser 10 years back, in a sense that
if anyone asked me the location of a lib.so and how to resolve a version
mismatch, I could fix it in a matter of minutes even if woken up at 4am in
the morning.
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 10:05:30PM -0500, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
To achieve the level of integration that timedated has with the rest
of systemd would require more than just putting code into timedatectl
to write out /etc/ntpd.conf and starting a service. timedated talks
to networkd (that
DHCP
On 2014-10-23 9:15, Matt Palmer wrote:
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 10:05:30PM -0500, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
To achieve the level of integration that timedated has with the rest
of systemd would require more than just putting code into timedatectl
to write out /etc/ntpd.conf and starting a service.
NANOG nanog-boun...@nanog.org wrote on 10/22/2014 10:47:46 PM:
The arguments against systemd that I've seen so far:
1) It's different so it's bad.
2) There's a lot of code, there must be some really bad security
problems just waiting to happen, so it's bad.
3) It doesn't do things the way
On 10/21/2014 05:20 PM, Jimmy Hess wrote:
The all-in-one approach of systemd might have a place on some
specialized desktop distros, but outside that niche its' IMO a
terrible idea.
The proper fix is probably a go back to Upstart or SysVInit and
rewrite systemd, so all the pieces are
On 10/22/14, 9:01 AM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote:
Bull. If you've been around the FOSS community even for a short
while, you'd know that systemd has become a religious topic akin to
On 10/22/14, 10:41 AM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote:
sums up my thoughts on the unix
I've enjoyed kernel hot patches (ksplice) until now.
So my primary concern is that updates to systemd appears to require a
full reboot:
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=300166
Is systemd really like a 2nd 'kernel' -- demanding mass reboots every
time a security issue is
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:57 PM, * turm...@privacyrequired.com wrote:
Poettering's own blog for example even misleads on how systemd
and sysvinit work http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html
Oh look... he's related to PulseAudio and Avahi .
If you've ever tried above average audio on
Jamie Lawrence wrote:
SNIP
Some may see me as a grumpy old man for that. I see it as a technical
conservatism for my production environments borne of having been burned by
shiny-cool-new before one too many times, and a tired dislike of being
paged out of bed over some chrome plated new
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:25:36 -0400, Jim Popovitch said:
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:57 PM, * turm...@privacyrequired.com wrote:
Poettering's own blog for example even misleads on how systemd
and sysvinit work http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html
Oh look... he's related to PulseAudio and
Randy wrote:
I've enjoyed kernel hot patches (ksplice) until now.
So my primary concern is that updates to systemd appears to require a
full reboot:
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=300166
Is systemd really like a 2nd 'kernel' -- demanding mass reboots every
time a security
On 10/23/2014 at 10:56 AM Randy wrote:
|I've enjoyed kernel hot patches (ksplice) until now.
|
|So my primary concern is that updates to systemd appears to require
a
|full reboot:
|
|http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=300166
|
|Is systemd really like a 2nd 'kernel' -- demanding
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Mike. the.li...@mgm51.com wrote:
On 10/23/2014 at 10:56 AM Randy wrote:
|I've enjoyed kernel hot patches (ksplice) until now.
|
|So my primary concern is that updates to systemd appears to require
a
|full reboot:
|
On 10/22/2014 03:51 PM, Barry Shein wrote:
I wish I had a nickel for every time I started to implement something
in bash/sh, used it a while, and quickly realized I needed something
like perl and had to rewrite the whole thing.
Barry, you've been around a long time, and these words are pearls
This is a good point, but it is perfectly possible to have a sysvinit
system not written in shell scripts. I had rewritten most of the init
system in python at one point for example. And its only been made easier
to do over time now that #! Interpertation was moved kernelside. A system
like
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:43:03 -0400, Lamar Owen said:
Now, I've read the arguments, and I am squarely in the 'do one thing and
do it well' camp. But, let's turn that on its head, shall we? Why oh
why do we want every single package to implement its own initscript and
possibly do it poorly?
On 10/23/2014 02:22 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:43:03 -0400, Lamar Owen said:
Now, I've read the arguments, and I am squarely in the 'do one thing and
do it well' camp. But, let's turn that on its head, shall we? Why oh
why do we want every single package to
On 10/23/2014 10:43 AM, Lamar Owen wrote:
Wouldn't it be more 'do one thing well' if you had a 'super' inetd
setup that can start services in a better way than with individually
packaged (by different packagers in most cases) shell scripts that are
going to run as root?
inetd versus xinetd
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:12:13PM -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Mike. the.li...@mgm51.com wrote:
GNU/Linux is morphing into GNU/systemd
Let's start calling it Systemd/Linux... that will get RMS on their
case real fast. :-)
I don't think they've done
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 10:56:40AM -0400, Randy wrote:
I've enjoyed kernel hot patches (ksplice) until now.
So my primary concern is that updates to systemd appears to require
a full reboot:
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=300166
Is systemd really like a 2nd 'kernel' --
Matt Palmer wrote:
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:12:13PM -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Mike. the.li...@mgm51.com wrote:
GNU/Linux is morphing into GNU/systemd
Let's start calling it Systemd/Linux... that will get RMS on their
case real fast. :-)
I don't
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 04:17:14PM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Matt Palmer wrote:
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:12:13PM -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Mike. the.li...@mgm51.com wrote:
GNU/Linux is morphing into GNU/systemd
Let's start calling it
Randy wrote:
I've enjoyed kernel hot patches (ksplice) until now.
So my primary concern is that updates to systemd appears to require a full
reboot:
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=300166
Is systemd really like a 2nd 'kernel' -- demanding mass reboots every time
a
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014, Stephen Satchell wrote:
On 10/22/2014 08:20 PM, Simon Lyall wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014, Miles Fidelman wrote:
And maybe, you should check out some of the upstream bug reports re.
systemd interactions with NTP.
If you think the current situation is all good then maybe you
On 10/23/2014 02:15, Matt Palmer wrote:
This is the core problem with systemd, in my mind -- and what has gotten
Linus, amongst other people, so thoroughly cheesed off with the systemd
devs. They don't play well with other children. They don't appear
particularly interested in reusing any
On 10/23/14 4:01 PM, Simon Lyall wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014, Stephen Satchell wrote:
On 10/22/2014 08:20 PM, Simon Lyall wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014, Miles Fidelman wrote:
And maybe, you should check out some of the upstream bug reports re.
systemd interactions with NTP.
If you think the
All those init.d scripts do about 95% the same thing, all hacked
together in shell. Most of them are probably just slightly edited
versions of some few paleo-scripts.
Set the location of the pid file, set the path of the executable, set
the command line flags/options, maybe change some
Subject: Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to
switch Date: Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 01:44:17PM -0700 Quoting Eric
Brunner-Williams (brun...@nic-naa.net):
systemd is insanity.
see also smit.
(assumption, we're talking about AIX smit here)
smit
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 06:17:09PM +0100, Israel G. Lugo wrote:
The binary logs for example worry me, especially corruption issues:
As they should. Binary logs occasionally make sense in environments
where the amount of information to be logged is huge and the rate at
which it accumulates is
From: Bryan Tong
The final fact is that bash itself is a dirty language that developers hate
and system administrators love.
Excuse me? I've been administering systems for over twenty years now and I
can't say that I've ever even once chosen to use bash over any alternative; no
matter how
On 10/22/2014 04:04 AM, Rich Kulawiec wrote:
I've seen similar tactical mistakes when developers insist that
information *must* be stored in a relational database -- even though
plain old ordinary text files are perfectly adequate for the task,
are easier to debug, are easier to fix, and
On 22. okt. 2014 03:40, Matt Palmer wrote:
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 07:20:12PM -0500, Jimmy Hess wrote:
Yikes. What's next? Built-in DNS server + LDAP/Hesiod + Kerberos +
SMB/Active Directory client and server + Solitaire + Network
Neighborhood functionality built into the program ?
You
On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Israel G. Lugo israel.l...@lugosys.com wrote:
Not intending to start a flame war here.
Bull. If you've been around the FOSS community even for a short
while, you'd know that systemd has become a religious topic akin to
Emacs vs. Vi discussions etc. I realize
Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Israel G. Lugo israel.l...@lugosys.com wrote:
Not intending to start a flame war here.
Bull. If you've been around the FOSS community even for a short
while, you'd know that systemd has become a religious topic akin to
Emacs vs. Vi
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Miles Fidelman
mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
Seems to me, this has been a very rational discussion,
Hardly. The discussion so far has been weighted very heavily on the
side of Dana Carvey's Grumpy Old Man-style whining. That's the way
it was and we liked
On 22-10-2014 17:12, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Seems to me, this has been a very rational discussion, confined to one
very identifiable thread, containing what at least this reader finds
very useful (operational impacts of systemd in server-side
environments, and what alternatives people are
Hardly. The discussion so far has been weighted very heavily on the
side of Dana Carvey's Grumpy Old Man-style whining. That's the way
it was and we liked it!.
The people that like systemd (like myself) have wisely learned that
the people that hate systemd, hate it mostly because it's
On 22-10-2014 17:30, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
Hardly. The discussion so far has been weighted very heavily on the
side of Dana Carvey's Grumpy Old Man-style whining. That's the way
it was and we liked it!. The people that like systemd (like myself)
have wisely learned that the people that hate
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:43:53PM -0400, C. Jon Larsen wrote:
Incorrect assumption. systemd is a massive security hole waiting to happen
and it does not follow the unix philosophy of done 1 thing and do it
well/correct.
It does seem to me that this angle, at least, is on-topic for NANOG,
On Oct 22, 2014, at 9:30 AM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote:
The people that like systemd (like myself) have wisely learned that
the people that hate systemd, hate it mostly because it's different
from what came before and don't want to change. There's no way to
argue rationally
Andrew Sullivan asulli...@dyn.com writes:
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:43:53PM -0400, C. Jon Larsen wrote:
Incorrect assumption. systemd is a massive security hole waiting to happen
and it does not follow the unix philosophy of done 1 thing and do it
well/correct.
But I have no clue what
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 11:43 AM, C. Jon Larsen jlar...@richweb.com wrote:
Hardly. The discussion so far has been weighted very heavily on the
side of Dana Carvey's Grumpy Old Man-style whining. That's the way
it was and we liked it!.
The people that like systemd (like myself) have wisely
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:35 PM, George Herbert
george.herb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Oct 22, 2014, at 9:30 AM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote:
The people that like systemd (like myself) have wisely learned that
the people that hate systemd, hate it mostly because it's different
from
On October 21, 2014 at 13:44 brun...@nic-naa.net (Eric Brunner-Williams) wrote:
systemd is insanity.
see also smit.
SMIT! Rhymes with
--
-Barry Shein
The World | b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice:
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 01:35:26PM -0400, Daniel Corbe wrote:
Not to get even further off topic here but when was the last time you
maintained a BSD system? FreeBSD (at least) adopted binary package
management as its preferred interface to ports through pkg-ng somewhere
in the 9-RELEASE
On 10/22/2014 10:43 AM, C. Jon Larsen wrote:
Hardly. The discussion so far has been weighted very heavily on the
side of Dana Carvey's Grumpy Old Man-style whining. That's the way
it was and we liked it!.
The people that like systemd (like myself) have wisely learned that
the people that
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:13 PM, John Schiel jsch...@flowtools.net wrote:
On 10/22/2014 10:43 AM, C. Jon Larsen wrote:
Incorrect assumption. systemd is a massive security hole waiting to happen
and it does not follow the unix philosophy of done 1 thing and do it
well/correct.
i was
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 13:13:29 -0600, John Schiel said:
i was beginning to wonder how secure systemd is also.
One of the 3 CIA pillars of security is availability. And if
it's oh-dark-30, figuring out what symlink is supposed to be where
for a given failed systemd unit can be a tad challenging.
On October 22, 2014 at 07:04 r...@gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) wrote:
I've seen similar tactical mistakes when developers insist that
information *must* be stored in a relational database -- even though
plain old ordinary text files are perfectly adequate for the task,
are easier to debug, are
On October 22, 2014 at 11:36 jamie.s.bow...@raytheon.com (Jamie Bowden) wrote:
From: Bryan Tong
The final fact is that bash itself is a dirty language that developers hate
and system administrators love.
Excuse me? I've been administering systems for over twenty years now and
On October 22, 2014 at 05:43 l...@satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) wrote:
How did this discussion get into NANOG? :)
Because in the field of automotive engineering we are the ones who
actually need to get down the road on time, reliably, and consistently
while the automotive engineers
On 10/22/2014 01:30 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 13:13:29 -0600, John Schiel said:
i was beginning to wonder how secure systemd is also.
One of the 3 CIA pillars of security is availability. And if
it's oh-dark-30, figuring out what symlink is supposed to be where
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:30 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 13:13:29 -0600, John Schiel said:
i was beginning to wonder how secure systemd is also.
One of the 3 CIA pillars of security is availability. And if
it's oh-dark-30, figuring out what symlink is supposed to
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:22 PM, John Schiel jsch...@flowtools.net wrote:
On 10/22/2014 01:30 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 13:13:29 -0600, John Schiel said:
i was beginning to wonder how secure systemd is also.
One of the 3 CIA pillars of security is availability.
Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:22 PM, John Schiel jsch...@flowtools.net wrote:
On 10/22/2014 01:30 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 13:13:29 -0600, John Schiel said:
i was beginning to wonder how secure systemd is also.
One of the 3 CIA pillars of
4. More fundamentally, 0-dark-30 events are almost always unexpected
(other than in the sense of Murphy's Law), and tricky to resolve - one
has hopefully prepared for the expected.
If it was part of the 'plan' it’s an event; if it is not then it’s a
'disaster'
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 11:30:57AM -0500, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
The people that like systemd (like myself) have wisely learned that
the people that hate systemd, hate it mostly because it's different
from what came before and don't want to change.
That's an entirely unfair characterization.
Well said, Rich.
Rich Kulawiec wrote:
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 11:30:57AM -0500, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
The people that like systemd (like myself) have wisely learned that
the people that hate systemd, hate it mostly because it's different
from what came before and don't want to change.
That's
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Miles Fidelman
mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
1. Experimentation and learning curve take time. That's a real cost that's
being imposed.
What makes systemd different from any other technology in that respect?
It's not clear that the benefits outweigh the
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Rich Kulawiec r...@gsp.org wrote:
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 11:30:57AM -0500, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
The people that like systemd (like myself) have wisely learned that
the people that hate systemd, hate it mostly because it's different
from what came before and
On 10/22/2014 02:43 PM, Rich Kulawiec wrote:
A Leatherman pocket multitool is highly useful: I've had one for years.
It's great. Until you need two screwdrivers at the same time...at which
point it becomes obvious why serious mechanics/craftsmen carry around a
toolbox with dozens of tools and
On 10/23/2014 12:05 AM, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
systemd is a tool designed to get the system to a state where real
work can be done. NTP servers, DHCP clients, consoles, aren't the
real work of a system, or at least I hope not, because that would be
boring to me.
That idea sounds interesting.
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:36 PM, Israel G. Lugo israel.l...@lugosys.com wrote:
For example, I'm very interested in NTP and accurate timekeeping --
mostly as a personal hobby, but it's been useful at work as well. I for
one would definitely not consider NTP one of those details that just
come
Israel G. Lugo wrote:
On 10/23/2014 12:05 AM, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
systemd is a tool designed to get the system to a state where real
work can be done. NTP servers, DHCP clients, consoles, aren't the
real work of a system, or at least I hope not, because that would be
boring to me.
Depends
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Miles Fidelman
mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
Re. NTP: Timekeeping is rather essential in lots of applications - like, for
example, transit operations, where I currently spend my work life. An
accurate, accessible central clock tends to be a rather
Hey... how about not using selective editing to change the thread of
discussion (see below)
Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Miles Fidelman
mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
Re. NTP: Timekeeping is rather essential in lots of applications - like, for
example, transit
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:45:01 -0500, Jeffrey Ollie said:
As I've already said a couple of times, systemd does not force a
particular NTP implementation on you. It comes with one (timedated),
and has a utility to manage it (timedatectl) but the admin can install
and use a different one if they
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Miles Fidelman
mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
Hey... how about not using selective editing to change the thread of
discussion (see below)
If you're going to simply keep repeating I like systemd, everything is
copacetic - maybe you should take your fanboy
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:18 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:45:01 -0500, Jeffrey Ollie said:
As I've already said a couple of times, systemd does not force a
particular NTP implementation on you. It comes with one (timedated),
and has a utility to manage it
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014, Miles Fidelman wrote:
And maybe, you should check out some of the upstream bug reports re.
systemd interactions with NTP.
If you think the current situation is all good then maybe you should look
at other bugs for ntp. eg this one I that affected me with Ubuntu Disktop.
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 14:44:57 +0900, Randy Bush said:
systemd is insanity. one would have hoped that deb and others would
know better. sigh.
It started as a replacement init system. I suspected it had jumped
the shark when it sprouted an entirely new DHCP and NTP service. And this
was
valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 14:44:57 +0900, Randy Bush said:
systemd is insanity. one would have hoped that deb and others would
know better. sigh.
It started as a replacement init system. I suspected it had jumped
the shark when it sprouted an entirely new DHCP and
I was actually not aware of this. I've been told that systemd also
includes fsck's functionality (or is planning to?). That just seems
absurd to me.
I didn't really have a strong opinion on either side of this yet. Seeing
the replies from other people here, though, and reading some more about
it,
Perhaps they could make a desktop version with systemd if the devs want
it that bad, but it'd be a shame if they ruined it for everyone that uses
Debian as a server as well. Haven't installed x on Debian since Etch... o.O
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 01:44:57 -0400, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote:
systemd is insanity. one would have hoped that deb and others would
know better. sigh.
This is exactly the type of shit one gets by letting non-technical people
make technical decisions.
systemd should never have even
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 4:40 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTgwNzQ
When your init system is worrying about cursor rendering, you have truly
fallen victim to severe feature bloat. I guess Jamie Zawinski was right:
Every program attempts
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Eugeniu Patrascu eu...@imacandi.net wrote:
I think systemd wants to become the next Emacs ;))
Or the next user activity collection point. Systemd really is a
black hole to 99.9% of the people who will use/deploy it... seems
perfect for lots of things.
-Jim P.
Wait… Let me see if I understand this correctly…
1. Move fsck functionality into systemd
2. Have it generate opaque binary logs
3. If your filesystem is corrupted in a way that systems can’t repair, you
can’t even read the logs of what systemd saw or did?
Yeah, that sounds like a
I have been working with developing systems that boot with Linux for a
number of years on a multitude of distributions and I never saw a problem
with the tools or the process. Purely the lack of standards.
It seems stubborn at the least to propose an opaque software solution when
a simple
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