Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Jeroen Wunnink]

Both the Call of Duty free to play battle royal game (Blizzard) and a massive 
~80GB update on Rainbow Six Siege (Steam) might both add to those traffic peaks.
Good drop in players in a short period of time while 60k-ish concurrent people 
downloaded that last one: https://steamcharts.com/app/359550#48h



Jeroen Wunnink
Sr. Manager - Integration Engineering

www.gtt.net<http://www.gtt.net/>

[id:image001.png@01D37331.D1301F60]


From: NANOG  on behalf of 
"Kaiser, Erich" 
Date: Tuesday, 10 March 2020 at 21:18
To: Bryan Holloway 
Cc: North American Network Operators' Group 
Subject: Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

It started about an half hr ago...


Erich Kaiser
The Fusion Network
er...@gotfusion.net<mailto:er...@gotfusion.net>



On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 5:08 PM Bryan Holloway 
mailto:br...@shout.net>> wrote:

On 3/9/20 11:02 PM, Keith Medcalf wrote:
>
> Warzone is a 83-101GB download for new, free-to-play users*.
>
> And I remember the days when that would have taken 10 and a half years to 
> download and consumed 56,000 floppy diskettes.
>
> My, how times have changed!
>

"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station-wagon full of tapes."

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Ben Cannon]

Akamai and it’s customers do not have all content at all locations, nor is 
their routing always consistent, however you may be able to reach out to them 
to level this.


-Ben Cannon
CEO 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC 
b...@6by7.net 




> On Mar 10, 2020, at 3:14 PM, Bryan Holloway  wrote:
> 
> We hit over 40G on one of our PNIs.
> 
> Currently, however, I'm trying to figure out why we're still seeing a 
> significant amount of traffic over transit when we have PNIs at the same 
> locations ...
> 
> I've reached out to Akamai, but I haven't heard anything back yet. I'm sure 
> they're busy ...
> 
> 
> On 3/10/20 10:14 PM, Aaron Gould wrote:
>> Wow, yeah, my Akamai servers are again, hitting all time highs… one cache 
>> hit up to ~30 gig… been ramping up and down since this morning around 9 or 
>> 10 a.m. central time.
>> Here’s a strange thing though, around 14:45 – 15:30, I got massive outbound 
>> on my internet connection (~20 gbps), and I never send that much out to the 
>> internet
>> -Aaron

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Jared Mauch]

> On Mar 10, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Bryan Holloway  wrote:
> 
> We hit over 40G on one of our PNIs.
> 
> Currently, however, I'm trying to figure out why we're still seeing a 
> significant amount of traffic over transit when we have PNIs at the same 
> locations ...
> 
> I've reached out to Akamai, but I haven't heard anything back yet. I'm sure 
> they're busy …

Yes another high traffic day.  I’ll get with you in private about your specific 
situation.

As always, there’s bumps but if we can improve things I want to do that.


- Jared

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Bryan Holloway]

We hit over 40G on one of our PNIs.

Currently, however, I'm trying to figure out why we're still seeing a 
significant amount of traffic over transit when we have PNIs at the same 
locations ...


I've reached out to Akamai, but I haven't heard anything back yet. I'm 
sure they're busy ...



On 3/10/20 10:14 PM, Aaron Gould wrote:
Wow, yeah, my Akamai servers are again, hitting all time highs… one 
cache hit up to ~30 gig… been ramping up and down since this morning 
around 9 or 10 a.m. central time.


Here’s a strange thing though, around 14:45 – 15:30, I got massive 
outbound on my internet connection (~20 gbps), and I never send that 
much out to the internet


-Aaron

RE: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Aaron Gould]

Wow, yeah, my Akamai servers are again, hitting all time highs… one cache hit 
up to ~30 gig… been ramping up and down since this morning around 9 or 10 a.m. 
central time.  

 

Here’s a strange thing though, around 14:45 – 15:30, I got massive outbound on 
my internet connection (~20 gbps), and I never send that much out to the 
internet

 

-Aaron

 

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Kaiser, Erich]

It started about an half hr ago...


Erich Kaiser
The Fusion Network
er...@gotfusion.net



On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 5:08 PM Bryan Holloway  wrote:

>
> On 3/9/20 11:02 PM, Keith Medcalf wrote:
> >
> > Warzone is a 83-101GB download for new, free-to-play users*.
> >
> > And I remember the days when that would have taken 10 and a half years
> to download and consumed 56,000 floppy diskettes.
> >
> > My, how times have changed!
> >
>
> "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station-wagon full of tapes."
>

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Bryan Holloway]

On 3/9/20 11:02 PM, Keith Medcalf wrote:


Warzone is a 83-101GB download for new, free-to-play users*.

And I remember the days when that would have taken 10 and a half years to 
download and consumed 56,000 floppy diskettes.

My, how times have changed!



"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station-wagon full of tapes."

RE: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Keith Medcalf]

Warzone is a 83-101GB download for new, free-to-play users*.

And I remember the days when that would have taken 10 and a half years to 
download and consumed 56,000 floppy diskettes.

My, how times have changed!

--
The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a 
lot about anticipated traffic volume.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Hugo Slabbert]

Just as a heads-up that if those previous two patches caused you some
strain, keep an eye tomorrow:
https://blog.activision.com/call-of-duty/2020-03/Introducing-a-game-changing-FREE-TO-PLAY-experience-Call-of-Duty-Warzone

A one-time early access will give Modern Warfare owners the ability to
> download Warzone at 8AM PDT. **For Modern Warfare owners who are current
> and have the most recent title updates, the download will be a 18-22GB**.
> Once download is complete, Modern Warfare owners will “unlock” the Warzone
> panel, which was previously classified, and can enter the lobby and play.
>
> For non-owners of the full version of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare,
> Warzone will be available to download free in respective first-party stores
> starting as early as 12 PM PDT. Head to the store and search for ‘Warzone.’
> Choose Call of Duty: Warzone to download. **Warzone is a 83-101GB
> download for new, free-to-play users**.


-- 
Hugo Slabbert   | email, xmpp/jabber: h...@slabnet.com
pgp key: B178313E   | also on Signal


On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 3:33 AM Tom Beecher  wrote:

> The discussion about what the consoles can or can not do is honestly not
> solving anything.
>
> Saying that the consoles should or should not be doing a thing is simply
> trying to throw the problem to someone else.
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 15:40 Carsten Bormann  wrote:
>
>> On 2020-02-12, at 20:45, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> >
>> > Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's
>> not a full power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage.
>>
>>
>> https://www.anandtech.com/show/7528/the-xbox-one-mini-review-hardware-analysis/5
>> says two-digit standby power (which they say is needed for background
>> updating).  At least in Germany, nobody sane will leave the thing in that
>> expensive mode (a watt-year is $3 here).  Switchable extension power cords
>> are being actively marketed here for these power hogs.
>>
>> Grüße, Carsten
>>
>>

RE: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Darrin Veit via NANOG]

Some clarifications on Xbox One behavior as it pertains to game updates, 
standby, and external hard drives:

If an Xbox is set to 'Instant On' mode and it has settings configured to keep 
the console OS and games/apps updated, the Xbox will check for updates during 
an overnight maintenance window when it is in standby (adjusted to local time) 
and automatically download/apply those updates. If an Xbox customer launches a 
game that has a content update that is required that hasn't yet been installed, 
the customer will receive a prompt that the game needs an update and the 
customer can then decide if they want to take a foreground content update or 
play the game offline. These foreground content updates are most commonly 
encountered if the Xbox hasn't yet had an overnight maintenance window in 
standby prior to a game update becoming required. 

If an Xbox has games/apps installed on an external hard drive that have an 
available update during the maintenance window, the drive will power up to 
enable downloading and applying of the update. As others have mentioned, there 
is a setting to turn off external drives while in standby that is enabled by 
default. This setting is used to control external hard drives so that they will 
enter into a low power state while the console is in standby for power saving 
purposes. With this setting enabled, external hard drives should power up when 
called by the Xbox to enable content updates while the console is in standby. 
With that said, there may be some external hard drives that don't work properly 
with the power management commands being used, so this setting can be disabled 
to work around interop issues with those hard drives by keeping them powered up 
while the Xbox is in standby. Net-net, content on external hard drives should 
be updated when the Xbox is in standby with this setting enabled, barring any 
hard drive firmware interop issues.


-Original Message-
From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Chris Adams
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 12:04 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Once upon a time, Mike Hammett  said:
> Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's not a 
> full power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage. 

The Xbox One kind of does that - it can receive updates (both game and
OS) in that state, but it depends on other settings.  If you plug in an 
external hard drive, there's a separate setting that is off by default (so if a 
game is on the external drive, it doesn't get updates).
--
Chris Adams 

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[nanog08]

Speaking of dial up...

I remember on a trip I got the hotel sometime after 2am (bad weather, 
bad flight). I was trying to dial out from hotel - 9 to get an outside 
line, then "pause" and then 1 for long distance and 202 for the area code.


I mistyped the phone number or something, and I was not getting 
connected but kept trying.  There was a knock at the door and "Police, 
everything ok".


I answered and explained that I guess I had mistakenly dialed 911. They 
did check the room and then left.


I gave up, went to bed, muttering that my email would just have to wait.

Geoff



On 2/17/20 5:41 PM, Mike Lyon wrote:

Then call waiting came out and would disconnect the session sometimes. That 
sucked ass.


On Feb 17, 2020, at 16:37, Scott Weeks  wrote:



I can't help myself... :)



My mother in the 1980s: "no one can ever call us because the phone line is always 
busy"

Me with an Osborne 1 and a 300 baud modem:  "We need a second phone line!"
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1)

My mother: "That's too expensive.  Quit clogging up the phone line with that 
toy!"

Me: 
"Ok...Pshhhkk​kakingkakingkakingtsh​chchchchchchchcch​*ding*ding*ding*" 
  (*)



I never would've guessed in those days that it would provide me an entire 
professional career.

scott



(*) I copied 
Pshhhkk​kakingkakingkakingtsh​chchchchchchchcch​*ding*ding*ding*
from a website as I could not spell that.

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mike Lyon]

Then call waiting came out and would disconnect the session sometimes. That 
sucked ass.

> On Feb 17, 2020, at 16:37, Scott Weeks  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't help myself... :)
> 
> 
> 
> My mother in the 1980s: "no one can ever call us because the phone line is 
> always busy"
> 
> Me with an Osborne 1 and a 300 baud modem:  "We need a second phone line!"  
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1)
> 
> My mother: "That's too expensive.  Quit clogging up the phone line with that 
> toy!"
> 
> Me: 
> "Ok...Pshhhkk​kakingkakingkakingtsh​chchchchchchchcch​*ding*ding*ding*"
>(*)
> 
> 
> 
> I never would've guessed in those days that it would provide me an entire 
> professional career.
> 
> scott
> 
> 
> 
> (*) I copied 
> Pshhhkk​kakingkakingkakingtsh​chchchchchchchcch​*ding*ding*ding*
> from a website as I could not spell that.

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Scott Weeks]

I can't help myself... :)



My mother in the 1980s: "no one can ever call us because the phone line is 
always busy"

Me with an Osborne 1 and a 300 baud modem:  "We need a second phone line!"  
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1)

My mother: "That's too expensive.  Quit clogging up the phone line with that 
toy!"

Me: 
"Ok...Pshhhkk​kakingkakingkakingtsh​chchchchchchchcch​*ding*ding*ding*" 
  (*)



I never would've guessed in those days that it would provide me an entire 
professional career.

scott



(*) I copied 
Pshhhkk​kakingkakingkakingtsh​chchchchchchchcch​*ding*ding*ding*
from a website as I could not spell that.

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Ben Cannon]

First non-POTS was an Ascend Pipeline 50.  I may even still have it somewhere.

-Ben Cannon
CEO 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC 
b...@6by7.net 




> On Feb 17, 2020, at 12:07 PM, Brian  wrote:
> 
>> On Feb 17, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Gene LeDuc  wrote:
> 
> Does this thread make me not only think about the days of old, but also
> makes me feel older! Not going back as far as some here but around
> 1993ish...
> 
> My first connection back in the day was a shell account I was given as
> consultant and reseller for what was TIAC (then became PSI). I was also
> at the time running a 6 line MajorBBS system (prior to WorldGroup). TIAC
> allowed multiple concurrent logins to the shell so I purchased the
> MajorBBS dialout module and had it login to my shell account which my
> cosysop crafted a nice menu for basic feature usage such as
> ftp/lynx/irc/etc. Users could then use my dialout feature into my shell
> and do what they were looking to do. 
> 
> Being somewhat out in the sticks and having a decent dial area coverage
> it in a sense allowed me to become my local region's first ISP of sorts.
> It was a hack but it worked and users were more than happy since for
> many even dialing up to AOL or Compuserve was a toll call then.
> 
> -- 
> If Confucius were alive today:
> "A computing device left in the OFF power state never crashes" 
> -
> 73 de Brian N1URO
> IPv6 Certified
> SMTP: n1uro-at-n1uro.ampr.org
> 
> 

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Brian]

> On Feb 17, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Gene LeDuc  wrote:

Does this thread make me not only think about the days of old, but also
makes me feel older! Not going back as far as some here but around
1993ish...

My first connection back in the day was a shell account I was given as
consultant and reseller for what was TIAC (then became PSI). I was also
at the time running a 6 line MajorBBS system (prior to WorldGroup). TIAC
allowed multiple concurrent logins to the shell so I purchased the
MajorBBS dialout module and had it login to my shell account which my
cosysop crafted a nice menu for basic feature usage such as
ftp/lynx/irc/etc. Users could then use my dialout feature into my shell
and do what they were looking to do. 

Being somewhat out in the sticks and having a decent dial area coverage
it in a sense allowed me to become my local region's first ISP of sorts.
It was a hack but it worked and users were more than happy since for
many even dialing up to AOL or Compuserve was a toll call then.

-- 
If Confucius were alive today:
"A computing device left in the OFF power state never crashes" 
-
73 de Brian N1URO
IPv6 Certified
SMTP: n1uro-at-n1uro.ampr.org

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mark Tinka]

On 17/Feb/20 22:43, Clayton Zekelman wrote:
>
> A PRI was and still is 23B+D, not 24 2B+D lines.

In Africa (and much of Europe and Asia, I believe), our PRI's were E1's,
which was 30B+2D (CCS and CAS protocols), for a total carriage bandwidth
of 2.048Mbps.

For E1, timeslot 0 is used for clocking and synchronization and is not
considered either a B- or D-channel. Timeslot 16 is used for the
D-channel (which I believe is timeslot 24 for a T1).

In E1, the D-channels can be configured differently depending on which
protocol is in use. For example, if you are using SS7 for an E1 PRI, you
can have 31B+1D, which means timeslot 16 is not used for signaling.

Mark.

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Clayton Zekelman]

A PRI was and still is 23B+D, not 24 2B+D lines.

23B+D (ISDN PRI or Primary Rate Interface) is  23x64 kbps bearer 
channels and a 64 kbps Delta channel carried on a B8ZS T1


You could carry additional groups of 24 B channels using NFAS, or 
Non-Facility Associated Signalling where the D channel on the first 
PRI carried the call setup and teardown information for the 
additional B channels on up to 20 PRI circuits.


2B+D (ISDN BRI or Basic Rate Interface) 2x64 kbps bearer channels and 
a 16 kbps Delta channel carried on an 144 kbps 2B1Q U interface.


At 02:58 PM 27/01/2020, b...@theworld.com wrote:

FWIW bulk dial-up lines were often brought in as PRIs which were 24
ISDN 2B+D lines on basically a T1 (1.544mbps) and then you could break
those out to serial lines.

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Paul Ebersman]

gleduc> I remember that TI luggable - that sucker weighed a ton!

U of I used those in the libraries. I remember looking up books for
inter-library/lincoln trail and handing the printout to
students. Problem was that clay or whatever it was that made the paper
worked didn't last for more than a month or two before it faded to
illegible, as many grad students found out...

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Gene LeDuc]

I remember that TI luggable - that sucker weighed a ton!  I dragged it 
from the lab to my dorm a few times to log in remotely, but carrying it 
on a bicycle was a dicey deal and I got over the novelty pretty quickly. 
 I'd forgotten who made it until you mentioned it - good memories!


Gene

On 2/17/20 11:34 AM, nano...@mulligan.org wrote:
Back in 1973 I was hired by Tymshare to "hack" Tymnet and some of the 
various systems (XDS 940, PDP-10s) - I was 15.  Tymshare provided me 
with a Teletype ASR-33 (with the built in tape punch and reader).  I had 
an AJ 300 baud acoustic coupler.  We had a second phone line installed, 
'cause my dad was tired of picking up the phone and hearing tones.  I 
ended up rewiring the house phones so I could put the terminal in my room.


When I went to the Pentagon in '79 I was in charge of PENT-TIP and got 
to take home and travel with a TI Silent700 with a built in acoustic 
coupler.  We had a bank of 300/1200 baud modems on PENT-TIP.  Our IMP 
was connected to the Arpanet via a 56K modem that was the size of 5 foot 
tall 19" rack!  Back in those days it seems TIP phone numbers were 
closely guarded treasure.


I still remember when I got an LS ADM-3A (no more finding rolls of 
thermal paper). I still have it, though I don't know why...


Geoff

On 2/17/20 11:20 AM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:



On Feb 17, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Gene LeDuc  wrote:

I was a student worker at a computer lab at USC in the 70s and a 
buddy had a system operator job at ISI in Marina Del Rey.  One day he 
connected to his office from my lab via a 300baud acoustic modem and 
then got on the ARPA-NET.  From there he connected to a system called 
ATLAS in the UK.  I had no idea what to do at the prompt so I typed



?
to get list of commands.  My global eyes were opened when the 
response was


Pardon?

instead of the usual rude or cryptic error message that I was used 
to. There was a big world out there and we were definitely not in 
Kansas anymore!
It was about 1980.  My C-128 came with one of those CIS snap packs to 
let you test connecting to the 'net via Compuserve.  So I connected 
with my 300baud modem and..whoa!!!


When I got my next computer (and first portable) shortly thereafter (a 
TRS Model 100) I got acoustic cups for it, and suddenly I was 
connected from anywhere and everywhere there was a phone - including 
from my job at a Fotomat booth (remember those?) :-)


Anne

--
Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law, Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, 
Lincoln Law School

CEO/President, SuretyMail Email Reputation Certification
Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
Legislative Consultant, GDPR, CCPA (CA) & CCDPA (CO) Compliance 
Consultant

Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)






--
Gene LeDuc | Experience is the worst teacher. It always
Technology Security| gives the test first, and the lesson
San Diego State University | afterwards.

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Tom Beecher]

Wasn’t that CNID where PRIs ignored the flag set not to present the data?

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 15:01  wrote:

>
> On January 27, 2020 at 22:57 ma...@isc.org (Mark Andrews) wrote:
>  > The hardware support was 2B+D but you could definitely just use a
> single B.   56k vs 64k depended on where you where is the world and which
> style of ISDN the telco offered.
>
> FWIW bulk dial-up lines were often brought in as PRIs which were 24
> ISDN 2B+D lines on basically a T1 (1.544mbps) and then you could break
> those out to serial lines.
>
> The sort of cool thing was that you could get caller information on
> those even if the caller thought they blocked it with *69 or whatever
> it was and log it. I forget the acronym...no no, that's the usual
> caller-id this was...u, DNI? Something like that.
>
> I won a court case with that data.
>
> --
> -Barry Shein
>
> Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com |
> http://www.TheWorld.com
> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
> The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
>

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[nanog08]

Back in 1973 I was hired by Tymshare to "hack" Tymnet and some of the 
various systems (XDS 940, PDP-10s) - I was 15.  Tymshare provided me 
with a Teletype ASR-33 (with the built in tape punch and reader).  I had 
an AJ 300 baud acoustic coupler.  We had a second phone line installed, 
'cause my dad was tired of picking up the phone and hearing tones.  I 
ended up rewiring the house phones so I could put the terminal in my room.


When I went to the Pentagon in '79 I was in charge of PENT-TIP and got 
to take home and travel with a TI Silent700 with a built in acoustic 
coupler.  We had a bank of 300/1200 baud modems on PENT-TIP.  Our IMP 
was connected to the Arpanet via a 56K modem that was the size of 5 foot 
tall 19" rack!  Back in those days it seems TIP phone numbers were 
closely guarded treasure.


I still remember when I got an LS ADM-3A (no more finding rolls of 
thermal paper). I still have it, though I don't know why...


Geoff

On 2/17/20 11:20 AM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:



On Feb 17, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Gene LeDuc  wrote:

I was a student worker at a computer lab at USC in the 70s and a buddy had a 
system operator job at ISI in Marina Del Rey.  One day he connected to his 
office from my lab via a 300baud acoustic modem and then got on the ARPA-NET.  
From there he connected to a system called ATLAS in the UK.  I had no idea what 
to do at the prompt so I typed


?

to get list of commands.  My global eyes were opened when the response was

Pardon?

instead of the usual rude or cryptic error message that I was used to. There 
was a big world out there and we were definitely not in Kansas anymore!

It was about 1980.  My C-128 came with one of those CIS snap packs to let you 
test connecting to the 'net via Compuserve.  So I connected with my 300baud 
modem and..whoa!!!

When I got my next computer (and first portable) shortly thereafter (a TRS 
Model 100) I got acoustic cups for it, and suddenly I was connected from 
anywhere and everywhere there was a phone - including from my job at a Fotomat 
booth (remember those?) :-)

Anne

--
Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law, Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln 
Law School
CEO/President, SuretyMail Email Reputation Certification
Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
Legislative Consultant, GDPR, CCPA (CA) & CCDPA (CO) Compliance Consultant
Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Clayton Zekelman]

So it was YOUR fault the phone at the Fotomat was always busy when I 
tried calling to check if my prints were done?


At 01:20 PM 17/02/2020, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:


When I got my next computer (and first portable) shortly thereafter 
(a TRS Model 100) I got acoustic cups for it, and suddenly I was 
connected from anywhere and everywhere there was a phone - including 
from my job at a Fotomat booth (remember those?) :-)

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.]

> On Feb 17, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Gene LeDuc  wrote:
> 
> I was a student worker at a computer lab at USC in the 70s and a buddy had a 
> system operator job at ISI in Marina Del Rey.  One day he connected to his 
> office from my lab via a 300baud acoustic modem and then got on the ARPA-NET. 
>  From there he connected to a system called ATLAS in the UK.  I had no idea 
> what to do at the prompt so I typed
> 
> > ?
> 
> to get list of commands.  My global eyes were opened when the response was
> 
> Pardon?
> 
> instead of the usual rude or cryptic error message that I was used to. There 
> was a big world out there and we were definitely not in Kansas anymore!

It was about 1980.  My C-128 came with one of those CIS snap packs to let you 
test connecting to the 'net via Compuserve.  So I connected with my 300baud 
modem and..whoa!!!

When I got my next computer (and first portable) shortly thereafter (a TRS 
Model 100) I got acoustic cups for it, and suddenly I was connected from 
anywhere and everywhere there was a phone - including from my job at a Fotomat 
booth (remember those?) :-)

Anne

--
Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law, Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln 
Law School
CEO/President, SuretyMail Email Reputation Certification
Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
Legislative Consultant, GDPR, CCPA (CA) & CCDPA (CO) Compliance Consultant
Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Gene LeDuc]

I was a student worker at a computer lab at USC in the 70s and a buddy 
had a system operator job at ISI in Marina Del Rey.  One day he 
connected to his office from my lab via a 300baud acoustic modem and 
then got on the ARPA-NET.  From there he connected to a system called 
ATLAS in the UK.  I had no idea what to do at the prompt so I typed


> ?

to get list of commands.  My global eyes were opened when the response was

Pardon?

instead of the usual rude or cryptic error message that I was used to. 
There was a big world out there and we were definitely not in Kansas 
anymore!


Gene

On 2/16/20 1:25 PM, b...@theworld.com wrote:


Ok it's Sunday...

The first time I got on the internet was around 1977.

A friend dropped by the lab I worked in at Harvard and wondered if I
had an MIT ITS account and I said no wasn't even sure what it was
other than a time sharing system at MIT.

So we had a modem and dumb terminal and dialed-in and one could create
an account from the login prompt which I guess today seems mundane but
really was totally unintuitive, getting logins on time shared systems
generally required paper work and proof one should have access.

And I became BARRYS@MIT-AI (no stinkin' dots back then.)

He showed me some ARPAnet things and I was suitably amazed and
explored more from home where I had my own dumb tty and modem.

TBH I didn't really have much use for it at the time other than
joining mailing lists or similar.

Occasionally if someone was in the room I'd say "watch this!" and get
to a login prompt at Stanford or UCL (London.) They were usually
impressed.

I did use the local area network to access MIT-MC to use MacSyma (a
symbolic math package) which I did use in my work.

I was fairly amazed that my files were visible on either machine.

etc etc etc.



--
Gene LeDuc | A ship in port is safe, but that's not
Technology Security| what ships are built for.
San Diego State University |   --Adm. Grace Hopper, USN

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[bzs]

Ok it's Sunday...

The first time I got on the internet was around 1977.

A friend dropped by the lab I worked in at Harvard and wondered if I
had an MIT ITS account and I said no wasn't even sure what it was
other than a time sharing system at MIT.

So we had a modem and dumb terminal and dialed-in and one could create
an account from the login prompt which I guess today seems mundane but
really was totally unintuitive, getting logins on time shared systems
generally required paper work and proof one should have access.

And I became BARRYS@MIT-AI (no stinkin' dots back then.)

He showed me some ARPAnet things and I was suitably amazed and
explored more from home where I had my own dumb tty and modem.

TBH I didn't really have much use for it at the time other than
joining mailing lists or similar.

Occasionally if someone was in the room I'd say "watch this!" and get
to a login prompt at Stanford or UCL (London.) They were usually
impressed.

I did use the local area network to access MIT-MC to use MacSyma (a
symbolic math package) which I did use in my work.

I was fairly amazed that my files were visible on either machine.

etc etc etc.

-- 
-Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mark Tinka]

On 29/Jan/20 02:22, Paul Nash wrote:

> One of our early customers was a group of students who wanted to start a 
> small dial ISP nearby.  We gave them service, bootstrapping what became our 
> biggest competitor, Internet Solutions (now part of DiData, who never did ask 
> for their router back).  Our little ISP grew and grew, and eventually merged 
> with our biggest client, was sold, sold again, and so on.  Last time I 
> looked, it had become Verizon Africa.

It went through some hands, but yes, I worked with Africa Online, which
was looking to pick up UUNet Africa. At the time, the operations were
mainly in Kenya, Zambia, Botswana and South Africa (we are talking 2003
- 2007 or so).

UUNet Africa eventually became Verizon Africa, and they got picked up by
MTN, being renamed to MTN-NS (Network Solutions).

I believe it now trades at MTN Business, in some or all of those markets.

Mark.

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mark Tinka]

On 26/Jan/20 06:59, Karl Auer wrote:

>
> You tell that to young folk these days and they don't believe you...

No use. They couldn't describe a cassette if it came with the manual;
nor a Nokia 5110 phone for that matter:-).

Mark.

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mark Tinka]

On 26/Jan/20 06:58, Joly MacFie wrote:

> IIRC that 64k was in fact 56k with 8k for overhead. 
>
> I had one, and it would kick in a second channel if you pushed it, for
> a whopping 112k. Metered, came out to about $500/mo.

My first ISDN experience was in Swaziland, 2003. There weren't many
countries in Africa that offered it, actually. As tiny as Swaziland was,
I was surprised they did.

I just liked it because the dial-up was instant and it didn't "sing the
modem song" :-).

Mark.

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mark Tinka]

On 26/Jan/20 06:29, Aaron Gould wrote:
>
> I love the symmetric ~10 gig speed test to put it into perspective for
> how far we’ve come….also the 3 ms ping result.  Ain’t it great
>

You laugh, but it's true :-).

We stopped entertaining this kind of nonesense from customers that don't
understand how BDP works.

"If another ISP can prove that they will get your iPhone 10Gbps
throughput between Dar Es Salaam and Sao Paulo, I'll pay you to go to
them", type-thing.

Mark.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mark Tinka]

On 24/Jan/20 16:55, Aaron Gould wrote:
> Thanks Jared, When I reminisce with my boss he reminds me that this telco/ISP 
> here initially started with a 56kbps internet uplink , lol

In Uganda, the Internet first showed up in 1995.

Those days, 2 ISP's had 64Kbps each, via satellite, for all their customers.

A year or so later, they merged, and as 1+1 goes, they now had 128Kbps,
for the entire country.

It wasn't until about 2002 that ISP's in the region began purchasing at
least 1Mbps of (downlink satellite) bandwidth. Back then, you normally
bought half of your downlink bandwidth for the uplink, and average
pricing was anywhere between US$7,000 - US$13,000 for the priviledge,
depending on which satellite provider + ISP combo on "the other side"
you managed to hustle up.

Mark.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mark Tinka]

On 24/Jan/20 01:35, Jared Mauch wrote:
> Apple did this with the original iPhone. Turned out even in their
> ecosystem they didn't get it right. The full restore images have
> always been there and diffs didn't reappear until you could "OTA" the
> device (WiFi)

Still the case today.

Diffs are only OTA. If you update via iTunes, it's the full whack. This
is why I stopped updates via iTunes 3 years ago.

>
> I can't imagine how hard a console would be with every random app
> writing data wherever. 
>
> Sandboxes and jails have been escaped as long as they have been around
> as well so they can help but are far from perfect

Isn't the PS4 running FreeBSD :-)?

Mark.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mark Tinka]

On 24/Jan/20 00:32, b...@theworld.com wrote:

>
> If I may...which also reminds me of a project in Africa which used
> some sort of wireless link (probably packet-radio) on top of buses.

Where, in Africa?

Mark.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mark Tinka]

On 23/Jan/20 21:52, Paul Nash wrote:

> A bit of perspective on bandwidth and feeling old.  The first non-academic 
> connection from Africa (Usenet and Email, pre-Internet) ran at about 9600 bps 
> over a Telebit Trailblazer in my living room.

Where in Africa? It's a small place you know :-)...


> Now we have a bajillion Gbps over submarine fibre landing pretty much 
> everywhere, and my guess is that it is not enough bandwidth.

It probably won't be, but judging by where things are going, the
submarine, cross-continental links will be carrying most of the traffic
for a handful of networks. Hint: they aren't the telco's.


>
> All this to bring such vital resources as Facebook and Netflix :-)

I used to say back in my Malaysia days, "Content is not King,
Connectivity is King". This was the days of Hi5 and MySpace.

As for Netflix, we're just tired of having to leave the house, but I
suppose Amazon is the grand daddy of that :-).

Mark.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mark Tinka]

On 24/Jan/20 12:43, Simon Leinen wrote:

>
> At 64kbps (ISDN/Antarctica) you could do it in 69 days, maybe even
> finishing before the next - undoubtedly bigger - release comes out.

In 1996, in Entebbe, it took me a week to download and copy mIRC.

Connection was a 14.4Kbps dial-up service during the week it rained all
day, everyday. Actual connection hovered between 4.8Kbps - 9.6Kbps.

On the Saturday where the rain abated for some 8hrs, mIRC finally came
through. By then, my 1.44MB floppy disk had run out of ideas, probably
from all the walking it endured between my house and the office of the
hotel manager 30 minutes up the road I hounded, given they had the good
sense to "buy the Internet" in those days.

I abandoned (what felt like) the project.

A year later, the gubbermint contracted the Chinese to fibre up all of
Uganda Telecom's CO's around the country, and we could then surf in the
rain :-).

Mark.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mark Tinka]

On 14/Feb/20 20:24, Andy Ringsmuth wrote:

> U, it is 2020, not 2010. 100M, 200M, 400M or 1G is increasingly common 
> for home broadband. I’ve got 400M at home, could get 1G fiber for less than 
> $100 if I wanted it, and I’m in your average, run-of-the-mill Midwest city.

Gaming does happen in most parts of the world outside the U.S., too;
even if I know that rural U.S. would struggle with high-speed access the
same way a developing country would, if not worse.

My point is, the world has not yet converged on Gigabit capability into
the home. And that goes for the distribution network too. But that's not
going to stop the world from gaming.

Mark.

RE: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Aaron Gould]

Yeah for our 40,000 ftth customers, I think 250M is our base package... we have 
lots of folks with 500M or 1G

-Aaron

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mike Hammett]

I think a better point might be that there are many points involved in the 
network distribution of software. Each one of them is a source of congestion. 
It could be the 10 meg last mile to the home. It could be the console with 
single chain wireless at the opposite end of the house of the access point. It 
could be a congested CDN. It could be a congested peering or transit link. 






All suffer because of slopping coding and packaging choices. 






BTW: Other than game updates and multiple 4k video streams, very few need more 
than 20 megs in the home. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Andy Ringsmuth"  
To: "NANOG list"  
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2020 12:24:32 PM 
Subject: Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that 

>>> After all - it's not like *they* are going to feel the pain of a single 
>>> 106G upload, it's somebody else who feels the pain of 5 million downloads 
>>> of a 106G image 
>>> refresh. 
>>> 
>>> Economists call this sort of thing an "externality". 
>> 
>> I must admit, I'm blissfully unaware of CDN commercials, but I'd have 
>> expected that if I give a CDN my binary 100G binary blob and six people 
>> download it, I'd be billed a different amount to if six million people 
>> download it - and similarly if that blob is 1G vs 100G. 
>> 
>> I guess I'm asking if there's an underlying problem with the model here, or 
>> if it's just the details of the numbers that are "wrong" in encouraging / 
>> discouraging certain behaviours. 
>> 
>> Regards, 
>> Tim. 
> 
> I just wish "they" would remember that their ultimate customers don’t usually 
> have 10G pipes - they have 6M and 10M pipes that may take hours, if not days, 
> to download one of these mega blobs. 

U, it is 2020, not 2010. 100M, 200M, 400M or 1G is increasingly common for 
home broadband. I’ve got 400M at home, could get 1G fiber for less than $100 if 
I wanted it, and I’m in your average, run-of-the-mill Midwest city. 


-Andy 

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Brandon Martin]

On 2/14/20 1:24 PM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote:

U, it is 2020, not 2010. 100M, 200M, 400M or 1G is increasingly common for 
home broadband. I’ve got 400M at home, could get 1G fiber for less than $100 if 
I wanted it, and I’m in your average, run-of-the-mill Midwest city.


And there are plenty of places in the USA with literally no wireline 
connectivity aside from POTS who rely on LTE or local WISPs to deliver 
bits, and they're doing well to give them 100M (capped or pay-by-the-GB 
on LTE, typically) and often much less.  There's also plenty of places 
where wireline speeds max out around 50-75Mbps in practice, even if the 
local MSO says you can get more.


The divide keeps getting bigger.
--
Brandon Martin

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Tom Deligiannis]

I know people who have 300 mb all the way up to gigabit in their home, they
still struggled with the update since the bottleneck wasn't the speed of
their internet connection.

Tom

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:41 PM Jeff Shultz  wrote:

> Sure, some of them can get it. Some still have DSL because we haven't
> gotten fiber that far out yet. Or they're in a rental/apartment where
> the landlord won't let us put fiber.
>
> Or some just don't want to pay for it.
>
> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 10:26 AM Andy Ringsmuth  wrote:
> >
> > >>> After all - it's not like *they* are going to feel the pain of a
> single 106G upload, it's somebody else who feels the pain of 5 million
> downloads of a 106G image
> > >>> refresh.
> > >>>
> > >>> Economists call this sort of thing an "externality".
> > >>
> > >> I must admit, I'm blissfully unaware of CDN commercials, but I'd have
> expected that if I give a CDN my binary 100G binary blob and six people
> download it, I'd be billed a different amount to if six million people
> download it - and similarly if that blob is 1G vs 100G.
> > >>
> > >> I guess I'm asking if there's an underlying problem with the model
> here, or if it's just the details of the numbers that are "wrong" in
> encouraging / discouraging certain behaviours.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Tim.
> > >
> > > I just wish "they" would remember that their ultimate customers don’t
> usually have 10G pipes - they have 6M and 10M pipes that may take hours, if
> not days, to download one of these mega blobs.
> >
> > U, it is 2020, not 2010. 100M, 200M, 400M or 1G is increasingly
> common for home broadband. I’ve got 400M at home, could get 1G fiber for
> less than $100 if I wanted it, and I’m in your average, run-of-the-mill
> Midwest city.
> >
> >
> > -Andy
>
>
>
> --
> Jeff Shultz
>
> --
> Like us on Social Media for News, Promotions, and other information!!
>
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _ This message
> contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual
> named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate,
> distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by
> e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail
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> error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost,
> destroyed,
> arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does
> not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this
> message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. _
>
>

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Jeff Shultz]

Sure, some of them can get it. Some still have DSL because we haven't
gotten fiber that far out yet. Or they're in a rental/apartment where
the landlord won't let us put fiber.

Or some just don't want to pay for it.

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 10:26 AM Andy Ringsmuth  wrote:
>
> >>> After all - it's not like *they* are going to feel the pain of a single 
> >>> 106G upload, it's somebody else who feels the pain of 5 million downloads 
> >>> of a 106G image
> >>> refresh.
> >>>
> >>> Economists call this sort of thing an "externality".
> >>
> >> I must admit, I'm blissfully unaware of CDN commercials, but I'd have 
> >> expected that if I give a CDN my binary 100G binary blob and six people 
> >> download it, I'd be billed a different amount to if six million people 
> >> download it - and similarly if that blob is 1G vs 100G.
> >>
> >> I guess I'm asking if there's an underlying problem with the model here, 
> >> or if it's just the details of the numbers that are "wrong" in encouraging 
> >> / discouraging certain behaviours.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Tim.
> >
> > I just wish "they" would remember that their ultimate customers don’t 
> > usually have 10G pipes - they have 6M and 10M pipes that may take hours, if 
> > not days, to download one of these mega blobs.
>
> U, it is 2020, not 2010. 100M, 200M, 400M or 1G is increasingly common 
> for home broadband. I’ve got 400M at home, could get 1G fiber for less than 
> $100 if I wanted it, and I’m in your average, run-of-the-mill Midwest city.
>
>
> -Andy



-- 
Jeff Shultz

-- 
Like us on Social Media for News, Promotions, and other information!!

   
      
      
      














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Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Andy Ringsmuth]

>>> After all - it's not like *they* are going to feel the pain of a single 
>>> 106G upload, it's somebody else who feels the pain of 5 million downloads 
>>> of a 106G image
>>> refresh.
>>> 
>>> Economists call this sort of thing an "externality".
>> 
>> I must admit, I'm blissfully unaware of CDN commercials, but I'd have 
>> expected that if I give a CDN my binary 100G binary blob and six people 
>> download it, I'd be billed a different amount to if six million people 
>> download it - and similarly if that blob is 1G vs 100G.
>> 
>> I guess I'm asking if there's an underlying problem with the model here, or 
>> if it's just the details of the numbers that are "wrong" in encouraging / 
>> discouraging certain behaviours.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Tim.
> 
> I just wish "they" would remember that their ultimate customers don’t usually 
> have 10G pipes - they have 6M and 10M pipes that may take hours, if not days, 
> to download one of these mega blobs.

U, it is 2020, not 2010. 100M, 200M, 400M or 1G is increasingly common for 
home broadband. I’ve got 400M at home, could get 1G fiber for less than $100 if 
I wanted it, and I’m in your average, run-of-the-mill Midwest city.


-Andy

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Jeff Shultz]

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 1:47 AM t...@pelican.org  wrote:
>
> On Friday, 14 February, 2020 09:17, "Valdis Klētnieks" 
>  said:
>
> > After all - it's not like *they* are going to feel the pain of a single 106G
> > upload,
> > it's somebody else who feels the pain of 5 million downloads of a 106G image
> > refresh.
> >
> > Economists call this sort of thing an "externality".
>
> I must admit, I'm blissfully unaware of CDN commercials, but I'd have 
> expected that if I give a CDN my binary 100G binary blob and six people 
> download it, I'd be billed a different amount to if six million people 
> download it - and similarly if that blob is 1G vs 100G.
>
> I guess I'm asking if there's an underlying problem with the model here, or 
> if it's just the details of the numbers that are "wrong" in encouraging / 
> discouraging certain behaviours.
>
> Regards,
> Tim.

I just wish "they" would remember that their ultimate customers don't
usually have 10G pipes - they have 6M and 10M pipes that may take
hours, if not days, to download one of these mega blobs.

-- 
Jeff Shultz

-- 
Like us on Social Media for News, Promotions, and other information!!

   
      
      
      














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contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual 
named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, 
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e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail 
from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or 
error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, 
arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does 
not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this 
message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. _

RE: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[jdambrosia]

All,
There has been some initial discussions about beyond 400G for Ethernet.  It 
would be interesting to better understand how often this problem is now 
occurring - because I would imagine the problem is only going to get worse as 
the "binary blob" blobs out, which will only stress networks more.

Regards

John

-Original Message-
From: NANOG  On Behalf Of t...@pelican.org
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2020 4:46 AM
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

On Friday, 14 February, 2020 09:17, "Valdis Klētnieks" 
 said:

> After all - it's not like *they* are going to feel the pain of a 
> single 106G upload, it's somebody else who feels the pain of 5 million 
> downloads of a 106G image refresh.
> 
> Economists call this sort of thing an "externality".

I must admit, I'm blissfully unaware of CDN commercials, but I'd have expected 
that if I give a CDN my binary 100G binary blob and six people download it, I'd 
be billed a different amount to if six million people download it - and 
similarly if that blob is 1G vs 100G.

I guess I'm asking if there's an underlying problem with the model here, or if 
it's just the details of the numbers that are "wrong" in encouraging / 
discouraging certain behaviou

Regards,
Tim.
 

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mike Hammett]

and? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Tom Beecher"  
To: "Carsten Bormann"  
Cc: "Mike Hammett" , nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 5:31:49 AM 
Subject: Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that 



The discussion about what the consoles can or can not do is honestly not 
solving anything. 


Saying that the consoles should or should not be doing a thing is simply trying 
to throw the problem to someone else. 



On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 15:40 Carsten Bormann < c...@tzi.org > wrote: 


On 2020-02-12, at 20:45, Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 
> 
> Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's not a 
> full power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage. 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/7528/the-xbox-one-mini-review-hardware-analysis/5
 
says two-digit standby power (which they say is needed for background 
updating). At least in Germany, nobody sane will leave the thing in that 
expensive mode (a watt-year is $3 here). Switchable extension power cords are 
being actively marketed here for these power hogs. 

Grüße, Carsten 

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[t...@pelican.org]

On Friday, 14 February, 2020 09:17, "Valdis Klētnieks" 
 said:

> After all - it's not like *they* are going to feel the pain of a single 106G
> upload,
> it's somebody else who feels the pain of 5 million downloads of a 106G image
> refresh.
> 
> Economists call this sort of thing an "externality".

I must admit, I'm blissfully unaware of CDN commercials, but I'd have expected 
that if I give a CDN my binary 100G binary blob and six people download it, I'd 
be billed a different amount to if six million people download it - and 
similarly if that blob is 1G vs 100G.

I guess I'm asking if there's an underlying problem with the model here, or if 
it's just the details of the numbers that are "wrong" in encouraging / 
discouraging certain behaviours.

Regards,
Tim.
 

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Valdis Klētnieks]

On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 09:39:09 -0800, Ahmed Borno said:

> The thread started with bandwidth surges and now power hogging is
> mentioned, I wonder what else might happen as a side effect to a small
> number of console/gaming companies not taking a direct responsibility in
> how they release large updates in a way that is not organized or scheduled
> but is rough and abrupt.

And I'd not expect it to improve - many of the game producers are leaving the
"incremental patch" mode to a "just ship the current image of the whole damned
thing", because for them it's cheaper to just push out a single updated image
than try to build different images for upgrading from different current levels.

After all - it's not like *they* are going to feel the pain of a single 106G 
upload,
it's somebody else who feels the pain of 5 million downloads of a 106G image 
refresh.

Economists call this sort of thing an "externality".


pgp2UX7WmfpRk.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Brandon Martin]

On 2/13/20 12:39 PM, Ahmed Borno wrote:
Strictly out of interest, I wanted to ask earlier if this irresponsible 
way of causing insane, instant, bandwidth demands is breaking anything 
on the ISP/CDN side or even the console owner ?! Or is it just an 
interesting phenomenon that is handled without a sweat. Does it break 
the buck in anyway?


A good service provider will plan for things like this.  They do happen 
from time to time and for reasons other than large game updates being 
dropped in the middle of the afternoon.  However, sudden large traffic 
surges can be unexpected, causing network congestion and poor 
performance for customers, and regardless they cost money to plan for.


These game updates have become very visible recently which I suspect is 
why they're getting attention.  They've also been generating traffic 
surges during or near prime time which compounds with typical streaming 
usage and is most likely to generate customer complaints.  If they were 
hitting at 4AM local, hence the discussion about consoles and such 
downloading them automatically at night, it wouldn't be nearly as big of 
a deal since network demand is typically low during those times on 
consumer-facing networks and congestion, if it occurs, is unlikely to 
generate complaint volume.

--
Brandon Martin

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Ahmed Borno]

Strictly out of interest, I wanted to ask earlier if this irresponsible way
of causing insane, instant, bandwidth demands is breaking anything on the
ISP/CDN side or even the console owner ?! Or is it just an interesting
phenomenon that is handled without a sweat. Does it break the buck in
anyway?

The thread started with bandwidth surges and now power hogging is
mentioned, I wonder what else might happen as a side effect to a small
number of console/gaming companies not taking a direct responsibility in
how they release large updates in a way that is not organized or scheduled
but is rough and abrupt.

~A

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 3:33 AM Tom Beecher  wrote:

> The discussion about what the consoles can or can not do is honestly not
> solving anything.
>
> Saying that the consoles should or should not be doing a thing is simply
> trying to throw the problem to someone else.
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 15:40 Carsten Bormann  wrote:
>
>> On 2020-02-12, at 20:45, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> >
>> > Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's
>> not a full power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage.
>>
>>
>> https://www.anandtech.com/show/7528/the-xbox-one-mini-review-hardware-analysis/5
>> says two-digit standby power (which they say is needed for background
>> updating).  At least in Germany, nobody sane will leave the thing in that
>> expensive mode (a watt-year is $3 here).  Switchable extension power cords
>> are being actively marketed here for these power hogs.
>>
>> Grüße, Carsten
>>
>>

RE: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Aaron Gould]

I saw this ...

100 gbps inet - usually 25 gig peak - that day it was 35 gig peak

100 gbps inet - usually 25 gig peak - that day it was 35 gig peak

20 gbps (lag) inet - usually 12 gig peak - that day it was 16 gig peak

10 gig fed - aanp cluster site 1 - usually 3 gig peak - that day it sat at 10 
gig for hours (I know I was dropping packets)
 
10 gig fed - aanp cluster site 2 - usually 3 gig peak - that day it sat at 10 
gig for hours (I know I was dropping packets)

-Aaron

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Tom Beecher]

The discussion about what the consoles can or can not do is honestly not
solving anything.

Saying that the consoles should or should not be doing a thing is simply
trying to throw the problem to someone else.

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 15:40 Carsten Bormann  wrote:

> On 2020-02-12, at 20:45, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> >
> > Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's not
> a full power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage.
>
>
> https://www.anandtech.com/show/7528/the-xbox-one-mini-review-hardware-analysis/5
> says two-digit standby power (which they say is needed for background
> updating).  At least in Germany, nobody sane will leave the thing in that
> expensive mode (a watt-year is $3 here).  Switchable extension power cords
> are being actively marketed here for these power hogs.
>
> Grüße, Carsten
>
>

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Carsten Bormann]

On 2020-02-12, at 20:45, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's not a 
> full power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/7528/the-xbox-one-mini-review-hardware-analysis/5
says two-digit standby power (which they say is needed for background 
updating).  At least in Germany, nobody sane will leave the thing in that 
expensive mode (a watt-year is $3 here).  Switchable extension power cords are 
being actively marketed here for these power hogs.

Grüße, Carsten

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/12/20 11:48, Josh Luthman wrote:
In low power state, usually standby, they're connected to the network 
and listen for requests to download a new title (bought online) or 
updates.  I know on the Xbox One side of things this feature is semi-off 
by default as it turns the HDD off to save power, but it's still in 
standby in the sense that it takes only a few seconds to get to a usable 
state.



They can shut down or sleep, it's user choice.

Xbox has a setting for an "instant on" mode. I also had the option to 
check for updates, but when I went to use it yesterday it came up asking 
me to download a system update. And then after it installed that it 
wanted to download a giant update file for Halo. It's supposed to get 
updates on its own if you have both instant on and get updates enabled, 
but it didn't for whatever reason.


On PS4 you choose if you want to turn it off or go into rest mode, but I 
usually choose off because if the power hiccups in the weeks between 
times I get to use it it yells that it wasn't shut down correctly and it 
doesn't self-reboot into rest mode. Even when it was in rest mode, when 
I went to start Overcooked (the only game my wife will co-op play with 
me) it too asked to download an update.


So sure, they can, but it doesn't work reliably and when I have time to 
play *ow I'm going to tell it to download now without caring if it's 
not-my-problem peak time or not. And I'm sure I'm not alone in that 
sentiment. Again, speaking with my end user hat on.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Tom Deligiannis]

My point was, the user has the option properly configured, but the console
still isn't updating until the console is turned on. I'm not implying that
it doesn't work, I'm simply stating that some users claim to have the
options configured properly but that updates are still not downloading w/o
user interaction.

Tom


On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 2:03 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Because the disks are shut off by default in standby mode.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 2:53 PM Tom Deligiannis 
> wrote:
>
>>   Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's
>>> not a full power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage.
>>>
>>> I'd think they'd be able to come out of sleep mode on their own,
>>> download the update, then go back to sleep.
>>>
>>
>> Xbox has this feature, but it doesn't work very well. A quick google
>> search shows that many users have their consoles set to receive updates,
>> but that feature doesn't seem to be working properly.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 1:46 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's not
>>> a full power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage.
>>>
>>> I'd think they'd be able to come out of sleep mode on their own,
>>> download the update, then go back to sleep.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Seth Mattinen" 
>>> *To: *nanog@nanog.org
>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 12, 2020 1:42:21 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that
>>>
>>> On 2/12/20 11:31, Livingood, Jason wrote:
>>> > But I think folks are correct that the issue may be more that a given
>>> gaming device was turned off at night (though no reason that device could
>>> not pre-cache the content from the source). In any case, there should be a
>>> better way to address this. The Internet will see more and more of these
>>> downloads and smoothing the impact out seems prudent for all involved.
>>>
>>>
>>> Putting my end user hat on, I turn off all my consoles when I'm not
>>> using them, often for weeks. When I get home and it looks like I'll have
>>> time to play after dinner I'll turn one of them on and let it
>>> download/install. I don't really care that my off work and dinner times
>>> might not be convenient for my ISP to download giant files. I fully
>>> understand the ISP's perspective, but I'm not going to start leaving my
>>> consoles on 24x7.
>>>
>>> The way to address this used to be this thing called "physical media"
>>> that held games, but nowadays even when I have a game on disc it has to
>>> download at least one massive patch before it will play.
>>>
>>>

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mike Hammett]

It seems like spinning up the disk if there's an update would be trivial. 
*shrugs* 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman"  
To: "Tom Deligiannis"  
Cc: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG list"  
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 2:02:42 PM 
Subject: Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that 


Because the disks are shut off by default in standby mode. 





Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 



On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 2:53 PM Tom Deligiannis < tom.deligian...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 





Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's not a full 
power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage. 


I'd think they'd be able to come out of sleep mode on their own, download the 
update, then go back to sleep. 




Xbox has this feature, but it doesn't work very well. A quick google search 
shows that many users have their consoles set to receive updates, but that 
feature doesn't seem to be working properly. 


Tom 


On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 1:46 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's not a full 
power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage. 


I'd think they'd be able to come out of sleep mode on their own, download the 
update, then go back to sleep. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 



From: "Seth Mattinen" < se...@rollernet.us > 
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 1:42:21 PM 
Subject: Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that 

On 2/12/20 11:31, Livingood, Jason wrote: 
> But I think folks are correct that the issue may be more that a given gaming 
> device was turned off at night (though no reason that device could not 
> pre-cache the content from the source). In any case, there should be a better 
> way to address this. The Internet will see more and more of these downloads 
> and smoothing the impact out seems prudent for all involved. 


Putting my end user hat on, I turn off all my consoles when I'm not 
using them, often for weeks. When I get home and it looks like I'll have 
time to play after dinner I'll turn one of them on and let it 
download/install. I don't really care that my off work and dinner times 
might not be convenient for my ISP to download giant files. I fully 
understand the ISP's perspective, but I'm not going to start leaving my 
consoles on 24x7. 

The way to address this used to be this thing called "physical media" 
that held games, but nowadays even when I have a game on disc it has to 
download at least one massive patch before it will play. 

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, Mike Hammett  said:
> Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's not a 
> full power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage. 

The Xbox One kind of does that - it can receive updates (both game and
OS) in that state, but it depends on other settings.  If you plug in an
external hard drive, there's a separate setting that is off by default
(so if a game is on the external drive, it doesn't get updates).
-- 
Chris Adams 

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Josh Luthman]

Because the disks are shut off by default in standby mode.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 2:53 PM Tom Deligiannis 
wrote:

>   Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's not
>> a full power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage.
>>
>> I'd think they'd be able to come out of sleep mode on their own, download
>> the update, then go back to sleep.
>>
>
> Xbox has this feature, but it doesn't work very well. A quick google
> search shows that many users have their consoles set to receive updates,
> but that feature doesn't seem to be working properly.
>
> Tom
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 1:46 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's not
>> a full power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage.
>>
>> I'd think they'd be able to come out of sleep mode on their own, download
>> the update, then go back to sleep.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Seth Mattinen" 
>> *To: *nanog@nanog.org
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 12, 2020 1:42:21 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that
>>
>> On 2/12/20 11:31, Livingood, Jason wrote:
>> > But I think folks are correct that the issue may be more that a given
>> gaming device was turned off at night (though no reason that device could
>> not pre-cache the content from the source). In any case, there should be a
>> better way to address this. The Internet will see more and more of these
>> downloads and smoothing the impact out seems prudent for all involved.
>>
>>
>> Putting my end user hat on, I turn off all my consoles when I'm not
>> using them, often for weeks. When I get home and it looks like I'll have
>> time to play after dinner I'll turn one of them on and let it
>> download/install. I don't really care that my off work and dinner times
>> might not be convenient for my ISP to download giant files. I fully
>> understand the ISP's perspective, but I'm not going to start leaving my
>> consoles on 24x7.
>>
>> The way to address this used to be this thing called "physical media"
>> that held games, but nowadays even when I have a game on disc it has to
>> download at least one massive patch before it will play.
>>
>>

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Tom Deligiannis]

>
>   Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's not
> a full power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage.
>
> I'd think they'd be able to come out of sleep mode on their own, download
> the update, then go back to sleep.
>

Xbox has this feature, but it doesn't work very well. A quick google search
shows that many users have their consoles set to receive updates, but that
feature doesn't seem to be working properly.

Tom

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 1:46 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's not a
> full power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage.
>
> I'd think they'd be able to come out of sleep mode on their own, download
> the update, then go back to sleep.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Seth Mattinen" 
> *To: *nanog@nanog.org
> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 12, 2020 1:42:21 PM
> *Subject: *Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that
>
> On 2/12/20 11:31, Livingood, Jason wrote:
> > But I think folks are correct that the issue may be more that a given
> gaming device was turned off at night (though no reason that device could
> not pre-cache the content from the source). In any case, there should be a
> better way to address this. The Internet will see more and more of these
> downloads and smoothing the impact out seems prudent for all involved.
>
>
> Putting my end user hat on, I turn off all my consoles when I'm not
> using them, often for weeks. When I get home and it looks like I'll have
> time to play after dinner I'll turn one of them on and let it
> download/install. I don't really care that my off work and dinner times
> might not be convenient for my ISP to download giant files. I fully
> understand the ISP's perspective, but I'm not going to start leaving my
> consoles on 24x7.
>
> The way to address this used to be this thing called "physical media"
> that held games, but nowadays even when I have a game on disc it has to
> download at least one massive patch before it will play.
>
>

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Josh Luthman]

In low power state, usually standby, they're connected to the network and
listen for requests to download a new title (bought online) or updates.  I
know on the Xbox One side of things this feature is semi-off by default as
it turns the HDD off to save power, but it's still in standby in the sense
that it takes only a few seconds to get to a usable state.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 2:46 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's not a
> full power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage.
>
> I'd think they'd be able to come out of sleep mode on their own, download
> the update, then go back to sleep.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Seth Mattinen" 
> *To: *nanog@nanog.org
> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 12, 2020 1:42:21 PM
> *Subject: *Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that
>
> On 2/12/20 11:31, Livingood, Jason wrote:
> > But I think folks are correct that the issue may be more that a given
> gaming device was turned off at night (though no reason that device could
> not pre-cache the content from the source). In any case, there should be a
> better way to address this. The Internet will see more and more of these
> downloads and smoothing the impact out seems prudent for all involved.
>
>
> Putting my end user hat on, I turn off all my consoles when I'm not
> using them, often for weeks. When I get home and it looks like I'll have
> time to play after dinner I'll turn one of them on and let it
> download/install. I don't really care that my off work and dinner times
> might not be convenient for my ISP to download giant files. I fully
> understand the ISP's perspective, but I'm not going to start leaving my
> consoles on 24x7.
>
> The way to address this used to be this thing called "physical media"
> that held games, but nowadays even when I have a game on disc it has to
> download at least one massive patch before it will play.
>
>

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Mike Hammett]

Aren't most modern consoles on whether they're "on" or not? IE: It's not a full 
power up from a dead stop, 0 watts power usage. 


I'd think they'd be able to come out of sleep mode on their own, download the 
update, then go back to sleep. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Seth Mattinen"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 1:42:21 PM 
Subject: Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that 

On 2/12/20 11:31, Livingood, Jason wrote: 
> But I think folks are correct that the issue may be more that a given gaming 
> device was turned off at night (though no reason that device could not 
> pre-cache the content from the source). In any case, there should be a better 
> way to address this. The Internet will see more and more of these downloads 
> and smoothing the impact out seems prudent for all involved. 


Putting my end user hat on, I turn off all my consoles when I'm not 
using them, often for weeks. When I get home and it looks like I'll have 
time to play after dinner I'll turn one of them on and let it 
download/install. I don't really care that my off work and dinner times 
might not be convenient for my ISP to download giant files. I fully 
understand the ISP's perspective, but I'm not going to start leaving my 
consoles on 24x7. 

The way to address this used to be this thing called "physical media" 
that held games, but nowadays even when I have a game on disc it has to 
download at least one massive patch before it will play. 

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/12/20 11:31, Livingood, Jason wrote:

But I think folks are correct that the issue may be more that a given gaming 
device was turned off at night (though no reason that device could not 
pre-cache the content from the source). In any case, there should be a better 
way to address this. The Internet will see more and more of these downloads and 
smoothing the impact out seems prudent for all involved.



Putting my end user hat on, I turn off all my consoles when I'm not 
using them, often for weeks. When I get home and it looks like I'll have 
time to play after dinner I'll turn one of them on and let it 
download/install. I don't really care that my off work and dinner times 
might not be convenient for my ISP to download giant files. I fully 
understand the ISP's perspective, but I'm not going to start leaving my 
consoles on 24x7.


The way to address this used to be this thing called "physical media" 
that held games, but nowadays even when I have a game on disc it has to 
download at least one massive patch before it will play.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Livingood, Jason]

(as an aside) Some of this timed & controlled distribution (by the content 
originator) should be possible using IETF Content Delivery Network 
Interconnection (CDNI) standards - see 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cdni/documents/. The initial RFC 6707 provides 
some background - https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6707.

But I think folks are correct that the issue may be more that a given gaming 
device was turned off at night (though no reason that device could not 
pre-cache the content from the source). In any case, there should be a better 
way to address this. The Internet will see more and more of these downloads and 
smoothing the impact out seems prudent for all involved.

Jason

On 2/12/20, 11:59 AM, "NANOG on behalf of Chris Adams" 
 wrote:

I think security is probably the sticking point for this.  Content
owners don't want anybody having direct access to their files, and as
more content is distributed over HTTPS, content distributors don't wany
anbody having access to their certificates.
--
Chris Adams 

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Scott Weeks]

--
On 2/11/20 6:41 PM, Tom Deligiannis wrote:
> There is a major update that has released today, how's everything 
> looking for everyone?
---


Did anyone else notice a big traffic dip from noon to 8pm local time?  
Strange look on the graphs.

scott

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Scott Weeks]

--
On 2/11/20 6:41 PM, Tom Deligiannis wrote:
> There is a major update that has released today, how's everything 
> looking for everyone?
---


eyeball network here...

It shifted our traffic patterns to earlier peaks.  It started at 9am.  
The first peak was at 3pm and the main peak was at 7pm and the traffic
fell back to normal loads at 1am.  There was increased traffic all 
night, though, as our low traffic was still 4-5Gbps over normal lows 
at the 2-5am period.

Normal peak is ~16Gbps, but this one was ~33Gbps almost all on one
inexpensive link.  The other main link showed and increase of about 
8Gbps with a funny dip between noon and 9pm HST.

scott

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/12/20 10:02, Jared Mauch wrote:

When you see this please raise it to my attention. I can't promise a resolution 
but will promise clarity in what is going on.



This was in May 2019 so what's done is done at this point, but I will 
forward you the email offlist.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Jared Mauch]

When you see this please raise it to my attention. I can't promise a resolution 
but will promise clarity in what is going on. 

I know some cities are problematic as we are moving cages or datacenter space 
and have the usual related problems. 

There is always something. 

Sent from my iCar

> On Feb 12, 2020, at 9:36 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> 
> 
> The wheels of bureaucracy are certainly a problem. The largest peer on our 
> local exchange couldn't even get Akamai to complete a peering turn up because 
> whoever was working on the ticket on the Akamai side got stuck on trying to 
> set up the wrong location. And then months pass, it never got resolved, and 
> then they decided to pull the cache. Akamai had one hand failing to set up 
> new peers and the other hand saying why aren't there more peers, and the two 
> hands never know what the other is doing.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Seth Mattinen]

The wheels of bureaucracy are certainly a problem. The largest peer on 
our local exchange couldn't even get Akamai to complete a peering turn 
up because whoever was working on the ticket on the Akamai side got 
stuck on trying to set up the wrong location. And then months pass, it 
never got resolved, and then they decided to pull the cache. Akamai had 
one hand failing to set up new peers and the other hand saying why 
aren't there more peers, and the two hands never know what the other is 
doing.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Denys Fedoryshchenko]

It would be really nice if the major CDNs had virtual machines small
network operators with very expensive regional transport costs could
spin up.  Hit rate would be very low, of course, but the ability to
grab some of these mass-market huge updates and serve them on the
other end of the regional transport at essentially no extra cost would
be great. I'm sure legal arrangements make that difficult, though.

+1

I think primary reason is that many major CDN offload nodes implemented 
such way that they require significant amount of maintenance and 
support. And doesnt matter, small or big ISP - they will have problems, 
and when the company that installed this CDN node is huge, like Facebook 
or Google, to crank all the bureaucratic wheels to change silly power 
supply or HDD - it comes at a huge cost for them. Also add that small 
ISP often dont have 24/7 support shifts, less qualified for complex 
issues, more likely to have poor infrastructure 
(temperature/power/reliability), that means more support expenses.
And they don’t give a damn that because of their "behemothness", they 
increase the digital inequality gap. When a large ISP or ISP cartel 
member enter some regional market, local providers will not be able to 
compete with him, since they cannot afford CDN nodes due traffic volume.


Many of CDN also do questionable "BGP as signalling only" setups with 
proprietary TCP probing/loss, that often doesn't work reliably. Each of 
them is trying to reinvent the wheel, "this time not round, but 
dodecahedral". And when it fails, ISP will waste time of support, until 
it reach someone who understand issue. In most cases, this is a blackbox 
setup, and when problem happens ISP are endlessly trying to explain 
problem to outsourced support, who have very limited access as well, and 
responding like robot according to the his "support workflow", with zero 
feedback to common problems.


Honestly, it's time to develop an open standard for caching content on 
open CDN nodes, which should be easy to use for both content providers 
and ISPs.
For example, at one time existed a special hardcoded "retracker.local" 
server in many torrent clients, which optionally(if resolved on ISP, 
static entry in recursor) was used for the discovery of nearest seeders 
inside network of a local provider.

http://retracker.local/
Maybe it is possible to make a similar scheme, if the content provider 
wants "open" CDN to work, it will set some alternative scheme 
cdn://content.provider.com/path/file or other kind of hint, with content 
validity/authenticity mechanism. After that, the browser will attempt to 
do CDN discovery, for example: "content.provider.com.reservedtld" and 
will push request through it.

I'm sure someone will have a better idea how to do that.

As a result, the installation of such "offloading node" will be just 
installing container/vm and, if the load is increased, increasing the 
number of servers/vm instances.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Brandon Martin]

On 2/12/20 11:56 AM, Chris Adams wrote:

I think security is probably the sticking point for this.  Content
owners don't want anybody having direct access to their files, and as
more content is distributed over HTTPS, content distributors don't wany
anbody having access to their certificates.


Yeah, these were the "legal" aspects I was referring to above.  Not a 
technical problem, really.  I can't say I'm surprised, and I can think 
of some workarounds, but it's definitely a thing to consider.

--
Brandon Martin

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, Brandon Martin  said:
> I guess what I'm looking for is a more "standard product".  Load
> this VM, tell it your preference for upstream use vs. hit rate, let
> it announce some routes into your network, and you take what you
> get.  If you need more, presumably you have the volume to back it
> up.

I think security is probably the sticking point for this.  Content
owners don't want anybody having direct access to their files, and as
more content is distributed over HTTPS, content distributors don't wany
anbody having access to their certificates.
-- 
Chris Adams 

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Brandon Martin]

On 2/12/20 11:22 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
My experience is that they want to see lots of traffic growth to stay 
interested. As companies get bigger the minimum bar to play keeps going 
up, and anyone below that bar is stuck relying on transit. Fall below 
the bar or don't show enough growth fast enough and they pull the 
resources away.


Which makes perfect sense for anything that involves physical 
infrastructure, talking to people, etc.  Resources have to be allocated 
reasonably.


I guess what I'm looking for is a more "standard product".  Load this 
VM, tell it your preference for upstream use vs. hit rate, let it 
announce some routes into your network, and you take what you get.  If 
you need more, presumably you have the volume to back it up.


I know somebody had done something like this for Steam at one point 
using a transparent HTTP proxy.  IDK if it still works, and I don't 
think it was actually supported by Valve.


Maybe I'm smoking something, here...
--
Brandon Martin

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/12/20 8:36 AM, Aaron Gould wrote:

Netflix oca has it figured out, as my fill windows is during off-peak time, 2 
a.m. - 6 am. and I think it's also configurable in the oca portal.



It's not fill, it's that people don't turn on their xbox or whatever 
until after they get home from work and only then does it start 
downloading. Multiply that by 1000 people getting home from work around 
the same time.

RE: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Aaron Gould]

Netflix oca has it figured out, as my fill windows is during off-peak time, 2 
a.m. - 6 am. and I think it's also configurable in the oca portal.

-Aaron

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/12/20 8:13 AM, Brandon Martin wrote:
It would be really nice if the major CDNs had virtual machines small 
network operators with very expensive regional transport costs could 
spin up.  Hit rate would be very low, of course, but the ability to grab 
some of these mass-market huge updates and serve them on the other end 
of the regional transport at essentially no extra cost would be great. 
I'm sure legal arrangements make that difficult, though.



My experience is that they want to see lots of traffic growth to stay 
interested. As companies get bigger the minimum bar to play keeps going 
up, and anyone below that bar is stuck relying on transit. Fall below 
the bar or don't show enough growth fast enough and they pull the 
resources away.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Brandon Martin]

On 2/12/20 10:59 AM, Dave Bell wrote:

Night-time for you is daytime for someone else.


This is very true, though I am curious what the international 
demographics are like for COD in particular and many games in general. 
I suspect a lot of them are at least somewhat regional.


I agree that the folks pushing these massive data loads could be 
considerate of the networks they are running on. The steam preload thing 
is a great example. The content becomes available x weeks before launch 
and downloaded to your device at some point in that window. It then 
simply unlocked on launch day.


This works really, really well from what I can see.  I don't even see 
many major OS updates, new game drops, etc. in my stats.  One of my 
networks is too small and hence noisy to really tell, but the other is 
quite predictable.


I'm not sure how much incentive there is for people to implement this 
kind of system though. With the rise of CDN and global caching, people 
care less about the performance of their servers for content 
distribution as it just scales out.


It would be really nice if the major CDNs had virtual machines small 
network operators with very expensive regional transport costs could 
spin up.  Hit rate would be very low, of course, but the ability to grab 
some of these mass-market huge updates and serve them on the other end 
of the regional transport at essentially no extra cost would be great. 
I'm sure legal arrangements make that difficult, though.

--
Brandon Martin

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Dave Bell]

On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 at 14:46, Brandon Martin 
wrote:

>  It would be nice if things could drop overnight to hopefully
> spread things out during the daytime lull some.
>

Night-time for you is daytime for someone else.

I agree that the folks pushing these massive data loads could be
considerate of the networks they are running on. The steam preload thing is
a great example. The content becomes available x weeks before launch and
downloaded to your device at some point in that window. It then simply
unlocked on launch day.

I'm not sure how much incentive there is for people to implement this kind
of system though. With the rise of CDN and global caching, people care less
about the performance of their servers for content distribution as it just
scales out.

Dave

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Jared Mauch]

Our CEO tweeted out a new platform peak yesterday which when you round it from 
the many trailing 9’s is 140T.

https://twitter.com/TomLeightonAKAM/status/1227389107665592320

I want to ensure the bits get through with the least pain as possible.

I’m expecting more of the same in the future, so if you’re not talking to 
someone here and we caused you some pain, I can help.  A number of people 
reached out in the past 24h and I think i’m all caught up on those, but while 
regular IXP peering can help in many places, if we can offload on a high 
capacity PNI that is my preference.  

- Jared

> On Feb 12, 2020, at 10:33 AM, Jason Canady  wrote:
> 
> We saw a higher load overnight, a little bit of a spike last night, but 
> really hard to tell overall with our traffic.  Updates were still going at 
> 8am today.  We run a local/regional WISP.
> 
> On 2/12/20 9:46 AM, Brandon Martin wrote:
>> On 2/11/20 6:41 PM, Tom Deligiannis wrote:
>>> There is a major update that has released today, how's everything looking 
>>> for everyone?
>> 
>> I run a couple distinct very small networks.  Both are transit-only with no 
>> direct peering or local caching and generally sub-gbps.
>> 
>> One set a new 1-min 95% record and did so by nearly 25% over its previous 
>> record.  The other matched its existing record.  The former thankfully has 
>> ample capacity, while the latter thankfully did so before primetime.
>> 
>> These are definitely going to be harder to manage than the primetime hump.  
>> It would be nice if things could drop overnight to hopefully spread things 
>> out during the daytime lull some.  I understand that some people won't pick 
>> it up until they get home and turn on devices (which is often after school 
>> hours for these type of game updates), but spreading things out would be 
>> really nice especially for those of us without local caching.
>> 

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Jason Canady]

We saw a higher load overnight, a little bit of a spike last night, but 
really hard to tell overall with our traffic.  Updates were still going 
at 8am today.  We run a local/regional WISP.


On 2/12/20 9:46 AM, Brandon Martin wrote:

On 2/11/20 6:41 PM, Tom Deligiannis wrote:
There is a major update that has released today, how's everything 
looking for everyone?


I run a couple distinct very small networks.  Both are transit-only 
with no direct peering or local caching and generally sub-gbps.


One set a new 1-min 95% record and did so by nearly 25% over its 
previous record.  The other matched its existing record.  The former 
thankfully has ample capacity, while the latter thankfully did so 
before primetime.


These are definitely going to be harder to manage than the primetime 
hump.  It would be nice if things could drop overnight to hopefully 
spread things out during the daytime lull some.  I understand that 
some people won't pick it up until they get home and turn on devices 
(which is often after school hours for these type of game updates), 
but spreading things out would be really nice especially for those of 
us without local caching.

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Brandon Martin]

On 2/11/20 6:41 PM, Tom Deligiannis wrote:
There is a major update that has released today, how's everything 
looking for everyone?


I run a couple distinct very small networks.  Both are transit-only with 
no direct peering or local caching and generally sub-gbps.


One set a new 1-min 95% record and did so by nearly 25% over its 
previous record.  The other matched its existing record.  The former 
thankfully has ample capacity, while the latter thankfully did so before 
primetime.


These are definitely going to be harder to manage than the primetime 
hump.  It would be nice if things could drop overnight to hopefully 
spread things out during the daytime lull some.  I understand that some 
people won't pick it up until they get home and turn on devices (which 
is often after school hours for these type of game updates), but 
spreading things out would be really nice especially for those of us 
without local caching.


--
Brandon Martin

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Aaron Gould]

Good point Bryan... With my single 10 gig pegged out for a few hours sustained, 
I guess it remains to be seen exactly how high that peak would go if I gave it 
more capacity

-Aaron 
- Original Message -
From: Bryan Holloway 
To: Nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 07:59:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

Is 10G enough? ;)

We just lit up several 100G Akamai links. Saved the day fo sho ... (this 
time.)


On 2/11/20 8:26 PM, Aaron Gould wrote:
> Huge!  Big as ever.  My aanp links are (were) pegged, seriously.  I will 
> be contacting Akamai about lighting up an additional 10 gig link to my 
> local clusters.  Started at 12 noon central… still going pretty 
> heavily.  Game/update release ?
> 
> -Aaron
> 
> *From:*Tom Deligiannis [mailto:tom.deligian...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2020 5:41 PM
> *To:* aar...@gvtc.com
> *Cc:* Nanog@nanog.org
> *Subject:* Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that
> 
> There is a major update that has released today, how's everything 
> looking for everyone?
> 
> Tom
> 

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Bryan Holloway]

Is 10G enough? ;)

We just lit up several 100G Akamai links. Saved the day fo sho ... (this 
time.)



On 2/11/20 8:26 PM, Aaron Gould wrote:
Huge!  Big as ever.  My aanp links are (were) pegged, seriously.  I will 
be contacting Akamai about lighting up an additional 10 gig link to my 
local clusters.  Started at 12 noon central… still going pretty 
heavily.  Game/update release ?


-Aaron

*From:*Tom Deligiannis [mailto:tom.deligian...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2020 5:41 PM
*To:* aar...@gvtc.com
*Cc:* Nanog@nanog.org
*Subject:* Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

There is a major update that has released today, how's everything 
looking for everyone?


Tom

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Tom Deligiannis]

Yup, Call of Duty update, 68GB on xbox platform.

Tom


On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 10:26 PM Aaron Gould  wrote:

> Huge!  Big as ever.  My aanp links are (were) pegged, seriously.  I will
> be contacting Akamai about lighting up an additional 10 gig link to my
> local clusters.  Started at 12 noon central… still going pretty heavily.
> Game/update release ?
>
>
>
> -Aaron
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tom Deligiannis [mailto:tom.deligian...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2020 5:41 PM
> *To:* aar...@gvtc.com
> *Cc:* Nanog@nanog.org
> *Subject:* Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that
>
>
>
> There is a major update that has released today, how's everything looking
> for everyone?
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>

RE: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Aaron Gould]

Huge!  Big as ever.  My aanp links are (were) pegged, seriously.  I will be 
contacting Akamai about lighting up an additional 10 gig link to my local 
clusters.  Started at 12 noon central… still going pretty heavily.  Game/update 
release ?

 

-Aaron

 

 

From: Tom Deligiannis [mailto:tom.deligian...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2020 5:41 PM
To: aar...@gvtc.com
Cc: Nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

 

There is a major update that has released today, how's everything looking for 
everyone?

 

Tom

 

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Job Snijders]

> Any word on what the update was for? It caused quite a jump in traffic on our 
> network.

On twitter "68 GB" was trending
https://twitter.com/search?q=%2268%20GB%22=trend_click

Kind regards,

Job

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[craig washington]

Dido


On Feb 11, 2020, at 9:03 PM, Andy Smith 
mailto:telephonetoughgu...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Any word on what the update was for? It caused quite a jump in traffic on our 
network.

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 19:06 Jared Mauch 
mailto:ja...@puck.nether.net>> wrote:
Looking good from my perspective. Let me know if we are causing you pain and 
let's see what can be done to improve.

I'm here in SF if you are at nanog.

Sent from my iCar

> On Feb 11, 2020, at 3:42 PM, Tom Deligiannis 
> mailto:tom.deligian...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> There is a major update that has released today, how's everything looking for 
> everyone?

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Andy Smith]

Any word on what the update was for? It caused quite a jump in traffic on
our network.

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 19:06 Jared Mauch  wrote:

> Looking good from my perspective. Let me know if we are causing you pain
> and let's see what can be done to improve.
>
> I'm here in SF if you are at nanog.
>
> Sent from my iCar
>
> > On Feb 11, 2020, at 3:42 PM, Tom Deligiannis 
> wrote:
> >
> > There is a major update that has released today, how's everything
> looking for everyone?
>

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Jared Mauch]

Looking good from my perspective. Let me know if we are causing you pain and 
let's see what can be done to improve. 

I'm here in SF if you are at nanog. 

Sent from my iCar

> On Feb 11, 2020, at 3:42 PM, Tom Deligiannis  
> wrote:
> 
> There is a major update that has released today, how's everything looking for 
> everyone?

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Tom Deligiannis]

There is a major update that has released today, how's everything looking
for everyone?

Tom


On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:14 AM Aaron Gould  wrote:

> My gosh, what in the word was that coming out of my local Akamai aanp
> servers yesterday !?  starting at about 12:00 noon central time lasting
> several hours ?
>
>
>
> -Aaron
>

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 2:02 PM Tom Deligiannis 
wrote:

> Shouldn't game patches like this be released overnight during off-peak
>> hours? Fortnite releases their updates around 3 or 4am when most ISP's
>> networks are at their lowest utilization. It seems somewhat reckless to
>> release such a large patch during awake hours.
>>
>
> I can't speak for PS4 and PC, but xbox does have a setting to keep the
> console in a state that allows the device to download updates when it is
> 'off' but I've noticed that the consoles don't always follow that rule and
> the update starts downloading when the user powers on the console, which is
> usually during peak hours. If this worked properly, it would be great since
> most of the updates would download while users were at school, working,
> sleeping, etc.
>
> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 1:36 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> Shouldn't game patches like this be released overnight during off-peak
>> hours? Fortnite releases their updates around 3 or 4am when most ISP's
>> networks are at their lowest utilization. It seems somewhat reckless to
>> release such a large patch during awake hours.
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 12:08 PM Brandon Jackson via NANOG 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare fragged our business VOIP: US ISP blames
>>> outage on smash-hit video game rush
>>> This is Windstream, going dark..."
>>> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/01/23/windstream_fvoip_outage/
>>>
>>> Apparently not everyone came out unscathed.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brandon Jackson
>>> bjack...@napshome.net
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:14 AM Aaron Gould  wrote:
>>>
 My gosh, what in the word was that coming out of my local Akamai aanp
 servers yesterday !?  starting at about 12:00 noon central time lasting
 several hours ?



 -Aaron

>>>

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Ray Wong]

My first internet connection was some generic 2400baud.I had software
support for MNP 5, which probably claims speeds up to 9600 bps? {perfomance
in the lab with pretty cooperative factors like noise when squirrels eat
through the protective coatings, and then chew up the actual wire, and at
least compromise the protection. Oh anyway tl;dr, I found a couple modem
numbers that weren't listed in the company publications, of course. they
suppported MNP5 on three dialup lines. All totally spoke IP and didn't
require authentication accounts, (things were pretty new for them, I'think)
so I'd periodically call the other numbers in the list an see if it was
crowded. I mostly did that because it obviously meant for general use but
some department or whatever had need.

So yeah, free 9600bps. at least people understood using words instead of
having to slap the words on an image, which isn't so appealing, while the
noise:signal ratio was the same, the total of each was much smaller. being
concise was often perceived a too short an answer, of the go away kind. The
slowest part was downloading the install cd images, and you had to make you
weren't trying to use it for anything else even so, hah

I finally lucked out. had an employer who wanted everyone in operational
duties to be able to respond faster in emergencies, and actually did it!

So then I graduated to...iDSL! yes, that's right, at the time I was too far
from the box for regular DSL. So, yeah it cost more, around 150/month I
think, maybe more, maybe less. but now I was up tp 128kbps bidirectional!
okay, so it wasn't great for moving lots of data to my home resources, but
it was enough to support the plenty of mail  coming through, including some
mailing lists for personal interests. And of course, people would email
porn. fortunately, postfix is quite good at noticing the gargantuan files,
and if they don't work the first time, fall pretty fow down the priorities,
so, i guess it worked since that was a very different time

Then I move to a new place in SF. for some reason I can't get anything
telco-based to install, so I finally turned to Comcast, first
Residential, Buisiness internet, which costs more for slower rates you
probably can't count on get, but it'll be close. They've turned out to be a
lot more clueful than the folks on the Residential service. Apparently, I
got in at a good time, because as I said I need it for work and need fixed
IP the VPN to autoconnect properly, asked me to list off the server roles
for 5 addresses instead of just the one, so it was easy to justfity 5
instead of just getting the one fixed it. I believe they've gotten more
stringent as IPv4 address, even small /29s So, it was cheap, why not try
it? It turns out that comcast business is an entirely different
organIzation.The SLA They have a 4 our onsite for someone to show up and
say they need to order a part, they're often pretty prepared by incident I
provided so have a guess where to look. There's a separate support number
only business class customers are allowed to us, so which means threre'
usually not much of a wait, if any. Because BC is presented as a complete
package, the reason they make you rent whichever cablemodemrouterfirewall
they've got their custom firmware on. If they can determine that it's your
box, they'll make sure the truck has one. Of they need to be onside trouble
shoot, they're quite competent at calling in what's needed, and most of
what they'll have is where they're stationed.

For work internet connections, I've long since track. probably all ofthem,
though i'd never be am exact who used what. I do recall one interview with
a candidate, and he asked about our network topology for whatever reason. I
happili obliged, 2Gb

We in the US have gotten used to other many mountries ahead of us for
gigabit to the home. We should do it, but in all honesty, having 57Mbps
down and 12 up, I havent been found my bandwidth seems fine. Usually looks
like either another exchange router had a problem and the remaining routes
are sitll converging with the new reality of how to transit traffic. In
fact, come to think of it, i've had exactly ONE ticket call for a railed
router. The was wsa somewhere outsie.

ANyway, 57dn12up may not be enough for what you guys do on the internet
with so much data may need, but it's still overkill for probably most of
the customers who need time to figure out how to use the computer again.
The main reason for increased capactiy all they way to plugs on the wall
and some kind of WiFI in there someone

Oh, as long giving kudos to comcast business, for those with a lot of
traffic to comcast users, their peering rates are much more affordable.
That's probably becase they get to make money on both ends of the traffic.
since they've already got networks spread out to do their stuff peering, so
worthwhile.They're nice guys to work with, too

And of course, there is the fact that traffic will always grow to exceed
capacity

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Ben Cannon]

Right??  That’s in a customer’s office building too… I’ve got the same 
connection on my workstation of course.

I actually have another test that I don’t normally share.  It’s NOT fake.  I 
found out that the speedtest algorithm rounds to the nearest whole millisecond. 
 And that it will round DOWN below 400ns… 

A friend, being kind of sassy, said recently “Hey Ben, so like when you got the 
10g, did you just like, download all of Netflix?”  And I had to pause and give 
a semi serious reply, where I said “Actually no… Because we’ve got a Netflix 
Openconnect in SF2 that has like 80g into the fabric, and we’ve got 100g into 
there, and even over the 10g to my desktop, that’s still faster than my SSD.  
So no, I’m not going to be downloading all of Netflix.  The internet is my LAN, 
I already have…"

(It’s honestly all so cool that I wake up every day without an alarm clock, and 
*run* downstairs to do what I do.   Best job in the world.)

-Ben Cannon
CEO 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC 
b...@6by7.net <mailto:b...@6by7.net>




> On Jan 25, 2020, at 8:29 PM, Aaron Gould  wrote:
> 
> I love the symmetric ~10 gig speed test to put it into perspective for how 
> far we’ve come….also the 3 ms ping result.  Ain’t it great
>  
> -Aaron
>  
> From: Ben Cannon [mailto:b...@6by7.net <mailto:b...@6by7.net>] 
> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 5:27 PM
> To: b...@theworld.com <mailto:b...@theworld.com>
> Cc: Aaron Gould; NANOG Operators' Group
> Subject: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai 
> yesterday - what in the world was that
>  
> I started what became 6x7 with a 64k ISDN line.   And 9600 baud modems…   
>  
> in ’93 or so.  (I was a child, in Jr High…)
>  
> -Ben.
>  
>  
> -Ben Cannon
> CEO 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC 
> b...@6by7.net <mailto:b...@6by7.net>
>  
> 
> 
>  
>> On Jan 24, 2020, at 3:21 PM, b...@theworld.com <mailto:b...@theworld.com> 
>> wrote:
>>  
>> 
>> On January 24, 2020 at 08:55 aar...@gvtc.com <mailto:aar...@gvtc.com> (Aaron 
>> Gould) wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Jared, When I reminisce with my boss he reminds me that this 
>> telco/ISP here initially started with a 56kbps internet uplink , lol
>> 
>> Point of History:
>> 
>> When we, The World, first began allowing the general public onto the
>> internet in October 1989 we actually had a (mildly shared*) T1
>> (1.544mbps) UUNET link. So not so bad for the time. Dial-up customers
>> shared a handful of 2400bps modems, we still have them.
>> 
>> * It was also fanned out of our office to a handful of Boston-area
>> customers who had 56kbps or 9600bps leased lines, not many.
>> 
>> -- 
>>-Barry Shein
>> 
>> Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com <mailto:b...@theworld.com>
>>  | http://www.TheWorld.com <http://www.theworld.com/>
>> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
>> The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
> 
>  

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Paul Nash]

Carrying on with the “first Internet connection” thread:

I forget how I found out about Usenet and UUCP email (lost in the mosts of 
time).  I ran a store and forward dial-up link from South Africa to DDSW1 in 
Chicago (Hi Karl!  Thanks!).  I cobbled together a package with a DOS-based 
mail reader and a DOS port of UUCP that several people used to get their email 
(including a local medical research establishment and the local veterinary 
college).  Demand grew, along with a request to relay email to the UNHCR in 
Northen Mozambique, so I scraped some money together to import a horribly 
expensive Telebit modem.  I ended up being the regional non-academic email hub 
for Southern Africa.

Just prior to the 1994 election, I got together with a two friends (Alan Barret 
and Chris Pinkham) and founded the first ISP in sub-Saharan Africa.  We managed 
to get a 64k satellite link at a very good price (the satellite folk were busy 
being retrenched and we were prepared to sign a contract specifically requiring 
satellite service for 5 years, which gave them some job security).  We borrowed 
a Cisco router from DiData (Cisco agents), skirted other telco regulations to 
link regions.

One of our early customers was a group of students who wanted to start a small 
dial ISP nearby.  We gave them service, bootstrapping what became our biggest 
competitor, Internet Solutions (now part of DiData, who never did ask for their 
router back).  Our little ISP grew and grew, and eventually merged with our 
biggest client, was sold, sold again, and so on.  Last time I looked, it had 
become Verizon Africa.

paul

> On Jan 28, 2020, at 6:40 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>  wrote:
> 
> So to add my two stories:
> 
> I provided the Idea and a whole bunch of time/labor/etc to start a dialup ISP 
> in our hometown back in 1994.   I remember having a big debate on whether to 
> bring in a single 56K leased line or 128K fractional T1.  We went with the 
> Fractional T1 just because it could be easily expanded over time.   (That T1 
> is now multiple 10GB circuits - yes the ISP is still running and I still am 
> involved).   So a single 128K fractional T1, a cisco 2501 (with external DSU, 
> those internal cards didn't exist yet), and 8 14.4 modems attached to a 
> single Sun Unix box.  Note that this was pre-web, and back in the days where 
> you pretty much knew at least generally everything which was on the internet.
> 
> Things grew quickly, don't remember how many lines.   At some point we moved 
> to having 56K modems on our end, which required a digital carrier to the 
> central office.   T1's were very expensive, so we did a bit of tariff 
> arbitrage.   One could obtain a 'metered' ISDN BRI line for like next to 
> nothing - the metering had to do with the fact they were going to charge you 
> by the minute for any calls, but here's the catch:  for outgoing calls only, 
> incoming calls were free which worked great for a dialup ISP.The problem 
> was that 56K dialin concentrators all wanted T1 lines.What we discovered 
> is that Adtran made a box which would take a whole bunch of ISDN BRI (each 
> with 2 channels), and combine them into a single T1.   And due to the retail 
> pricing difference for T1 vs BRI, we could pay for the box in a few months.   
>  So we took a whole truckload of ISDN BRI lines and combined them into a few 
> channelized T1's and ended up paying a lot less to the phone company.
> 
> Of course, things have grown past that (we have an extensive WISP network and 
> have an ever-growing amount of fiber in the ground).  But it's fun to think 
> about where we started.
> 
> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 1:00 PM  wrote:
> 
> On January 27, 2020 at 22:57 ma...@isc.org (Mark Andrews) wrote:
>  > The hardware support was 2B+D but you could definitely just use a single 
> B.   56k vs 64k depended on where you where is the world and which style of 
> ISDN the telco offered. 
> 
> FWIW bulk dial-up lines were often brought in as PRIs which were 24
> ISDN 2B+D lines on basically a T1 (1.544mbps) and then you could break
> those out to serial lines.
> 
> The sort of cool thing was that you could get caller information on
> those even if the caller thought they blocked it with *69 or whatever
> it was and log it. I forget the acronym...no no, that's the usual
> caller-id this was...u, DNI? Something like that.
> 
> I won a court case with that data.
> 
> -- 
> -Barry Shein
> 
> Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | 
> http://www.TheWorld.com
> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
> The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Forrest

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

So to add my two stories:

I provided the Idea and a whole bunch of time/labor/etc to start a dialup
ISP in our hometown back in 1994.   I remember having a big debate on
whether to bring in a single 56K leased line or 128K fractional T1.  We
went with the Fractional T1 just because it could be easily expanded over
time.   (That T1 is now multiple 10GB circuits - yes the ISP is still
running and I still am involved).   So a single 128K fractional T1, a cisco
2501 (with external DSU, those internal cards didn't exist yet), and 8 14.4
modems attached to a single Sun Unix box.  Note that this was pre-web, and
back in the days where you pretty much knew at least generally everything
which was on the internet.

Things grew quickly, don't remember how many lines.   At some point we
moved to having 56K modems on our end, which required a digital carrier to
the central office.   T1's were very expensive, so we did a bit of
tariff arbitrage.   One could obtain a 'metered' ISDN BRI line for like
next to nothing - the metering had to do with the fact they were going to
charge you by the minute for any calls, but here's the catch:  for outgoing
calls only, incoming calls were free which worked great for a dialup ISP.
  The problem was that 56K dialin concentrators all wanted T1 lines.
What we discovered is that Adtran made a box which would take a whole bunch
of ISDN BRI (each with 2 channels), and combine them into a single T1.
 And due to the retail pricing difference for T1 vs BRI, we could pay for
the box in a few months.So we took a whole truckload of ISDN BRI lines
and combined them into a few channelized T1's and ended up paying a lot
less to the phone company.

Of course, things have grown past that (we have an extensive WISP network
and have an ever-growing amount of fiber in the ground).  But it's fun to
think about where we started.

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 1:00 PM  wrote:

>
> On January 27, 2020 at 22:57 ma...@isc.org (Mark Andrews) wrote:
>  > The hardware support was 2B+D but you could definitely just use a
> single B.   56k vs 64k depended on where you where is the world and which
> style of ISDN the telco offered.
>
> FWIW bulk dial-up lines were often brought in as PRIs which were 24
> ISDN 2B+D lines on basically a T1 (1.544mbps) and then you could break
> those out to serial lines.
>
> The sort of cool thing was that you could get caller information on
> those even if the caller thought they blocked it with *69 or whatever
> it was and log it. I forget the acronym...no no, that's the usual
> caller-id this was...u, DNI? Something like that.
>
> I won a court case with that data.
>
> --
> -Barry Shein
>
> Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com |
> http://www.TheWorld.com
> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
> The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
>


-- 
- Forrest

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Andy Ringsmuth]

> On Jan 28, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Paul Ebersman  wrote:
> 
> wsimpson> When we first designed PPP in the late '80s to replace SLIP
> wsimpson> and SLFP, it was expected to run at 300 bps and scale up, so
> wsimpson> the timeouts reflected that.  When I designed PPP over ISDN,
> wsimpson> added language to allow faster retransmission.
> 
> SLIP and PPP were quite... robust. Some UCB folks managed to get SLIP
> over tin can and string. Two acoustic coupler 150b modems, 2 8oz V8 cans
> and waxed cotton thread.

I remember a bit of those days as well. Not working with them but seeing 
acoustic coupler modems in action. In the late 80s when my grandfather was 
mayor of a small town in Minnesota, he had some kind of little terminal in his 
basement with an acoustic coupler modem. It was so he could add messages to a 
city TV station in his official mayoral capacity. I was probably 8 or 9 at the 
time. My brother and I thought it was really, really cool when he showed us how 
it worked by putting our names on TV. He put some little “welcome to my 
grandkids from Nebraska” message that, to a 9 year old in the 1980s was awesome 
to see.


-Andy

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[t...@pelican.org]

On Tuesday, 28 January, 2020 16:53, "Paul Ebersman"  
said:

> SLIP and PPP were quite... robust. Some UCB folks managed to get SLIP
> over tin can and string. Two acoustic coupler 150b modems, 2 8oz V8 cans
> and waxed cotton thread.

https://www.revk.uk/2017/12/its-official-adsl-works-over-wet-string.html

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Large Hadron Collider]

Imagine the racket!

Is anyone connected with PPP over OC3? I'm just curious. I don't have that sort
of connection myself. I'm just on dumbass DOCSIS. My first connection was PPP
over the analogue PSTN.

On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 09:53:26 -0700
Paul Ebersman  wrote:

> wsimpson> When we first designed PPP in the late '80s to replace SLIP
> wsimpson> and SLFP, it was expected to run at 300 bps and scale up, so
> wsimpson> the timeouts reflected that.  When I designed PPP over ISDN,
> wsimpson> added language to allow faster retransmission.
>
> SLIP and PPP were quite... robust. Some UCB folks managed to get SLIP
> over tin can and string. Two acoustic coupler 150b modems, 2 8oz V8 cans
> and waxed cotton thread.
>
> wsimpson> Like many of you, I started an ISP in 1994 with a 56 kbps
> wsimpson> uplink, and only 6 local customers  The routers were in a
> wsimpson> bathroom over the garage.
>
> Our first CA hub was in the janitor's closet at a now defunct computer
> company. We initially had problems with the janitors unplugging the
> router on weekends to plug in their floor buffers.
>
> Ah, the good old days.
>
>


--
Large Hadron Collider 

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Paul Ebersman]

wsimpson> When we first designed PPP in the late '80s to replace SLIP
wsimpson> and SLFP, it was expected to run at 300 bps and scale up, so
wsimpson> the timeouts reflected that.  When I designed PPP over ISDN,
wsimpson> added language to allow faster retransmission.

SLIP and PPP were quite... robust. Some UCB folks managed to get SLIP
over tin can and string. Two acoustic coupler 150b modems, 2 8oz V8 cans
and waxed cotton thread.

wsimpson> Like many of you, I started an ISP in 1994 with a 56 kbps
wsimpson> uplink, and only 6 local customers  The routers were in a
wsimpson> bathroom over the garage.

Our first CA hub was in the janitor's closet at a now defunct computer
company. We initially had problems with the janitors unplugging the
router on weekends to plug in their floor buffers.

Ah, the good old days.

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Derek Traynor]

I had a USR 2400 baud external modem. Local ISP offered PPP service as
well. We also had a few BBS's in the area of which I ran two of them.

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 10:31 AM Daniel Seagraves <
dseag...@humancapitaldev.com> wrote:

> > On Jan 24, 2020, at 5:26 PM, Ben Cannon  wrote:
> >
> > I started what became 6x7 with a 64k ISDN line.   And 9600 baud modems…
>
> Hayes Smartmodem here, 1200 baud. Local BBS offered PPP service.
>
> When I got my first sysadmin job, $work had a T1 and it felt like more
> speed than was fair…
>

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Tom Deligiannis]

>
> Shouldn't game patches like this be released overnight during off-peak
> hours? Fortnite releases their updates around 3 or 4am when most ISP's
> networks are at their lowest utilization. It seems somewhat reckless to
> release such a large patch during awake hours.
>

I can't speak for PS4 and PC, but xbox does have a setting to keep the
console in a state that allows the device to download updates when it is
'off' but I've noticed that the consoles don't always follow that rule and
the update starts downloading when the user powers on the console, which is
usually during peak hours. If this worked properly, it would be great since
most of the updates would download while users were at school, working,
sleeping, etc.

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 1:36 PM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> Shouldn't game patches like this be released overnight during off-peak
> hours? Fortnite releases their updates around 3 or 4am when most ISP's
> networks are at their lowest utilization. It seems somewhat reckless to
> release such a large patch during awake hours.
>
> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 12:08 PM Brandon Jackson via NANOG 
> wrote:
>
>> "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare fragged our business VOIP: US ISP blames
>> outage on smash-hit video game rush
>> This is Windstream, going dark..."
>> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/01/23/windstream_fvoip_outage/
>>
>> Apparently not everyone came out unscathed.
>>
>> --
>> Brandon Jackson
>> bjack...@napshome.net
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:14 AM Aaron Gould  wrote:
>>
>>> My gosh, what in the word was that coming out of my local Akamai aanp
>>> servers yesterday !?  starting at about 12:00 noon central time lasting
>>> several hours ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Aaron
>>>
>>

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that (now old guy stuff)

[Ben Cannon]

The Civil Engineering version of this is SWER electrical distribution.  
Single-Wire, Earth-Return. And it’s as crazy in implementation as it sounds now.




-Ben Cannon
CEO 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC 
b...@6by7.net 




> On Jan 25, 2020, at 8:24 AM, Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail) 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Jan 25, 2020, at 08:52, Paul Nash  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> So, I grew up in South Africa, and one of the more fascinating /
>>> cooler things I saw was a modem which would get you ~50bps (bps, not
>>> Kbps) over a single strand of barbed wire -- you'd hammer a largish
>>> nail into the ground, and clip one alligator[0] clip onto that, and
>>> another alligator clip onto the barbed wire. Repeat the process on the
>>> other side (up to ~5km away), plug the modems in, and bits would
>>> flow... I only saw these used a few times, but always thought they
>>> were cool….
>> 
>> Do you remember anything about the actual type of modem?  Or where you 
>> deployed them?
>> 
> Decades ago, I cobbled together a 20mA current loop interface that may have 
> been an early version of this .. ran a set of Baudot machines (pre-ASCII, 
> upper case & figs only) mostly just to have fun with a set of old ASR 32 
> teletypes.  I used a couple of 500’ spools of zip cord lying on the ground 
> from end to end. Never mind backhoes - it was lawn-mower vulnerable. 
> (However, being flat on the ground seemingly made it less vulnerable to 
> lightning strikes.)
> 
> Of course, this was hardly critical infrastructure!
> 
> Blessings..
> 
> Allen

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[William Allen Simpson]

On 1/27/20 3:06 PM, b...@theworld.com wrote:


I remember going from 300b to 1200b and thinking wow, this is it,
we're done, I cannot read text scrolling on the screen at 1200b.


Other than the 75 and 110 baud teletypes that only did text, my first
TCP/IP connection was 300b, back when we had to rent the modems (1979).

I had to write my own TCP/IP stacks, on both the Interdata 7/16 at the
office and my first personal computer: a 2 MHz Z80 S-100 bus.  Built my
own serial device too, with a rather large switch on the back to change
speeds.  (Still have it, just carried it out of the garage over the
weekend, haven't turned it on in years as the special floppies have died.)

Eventually, got my own 300b Hayes Micromodem!

It took a long time to upgrade to 1200b, as the modems were thousands of
dollars each.  Roughly $18,000 each in today's dollars.  Only used between
major sites.

Racal-Vadic triple modems were a big step (circa 1986).

When we first designed PPP in the late '80s to replace SLIP and SLFP, it was
expected to run at 300 bps and scale up, so the timeouts reflected that.
When I designed PPP over ISDN, added language to allow faster retransmission.

When we designed IP/PPP/CDMA (IS-99) for cell phones, I was seriously
concerned that it would not be competitive, as it only allowed 14.4 kbps
when 28.8 kbps modems were becoming available.  Turned out to be several
times faster than ATT's CDPD offering

Like many of you, I started an ISP in 1994 with a 56 kbps uplink, and
only 6 local customers  The routers were in a bathroom over the garage.

Re: Reminiscing our first internet connections (WAS) Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that

[Bryan Holloway]

Whoa. Gandalf.

I worked on one of those once and it was cray-zee. Customer bought 
one, and I had to get it to interoperate with an Ascend 400. It took a 
lot of fiddle-farting, but I did eventually get it to work.


Fun times.


On 1/27/20 8:00 PM, Jamie Bowden via NANOG wrote:

That was the other half of going to Extended Super Frame.  Lyle talked about 
AMI going away below, but didn't mention what replaced it (Binary 8bit Zero 
Substitution for the kids on the list).

I don't know about the other ILECs out there, but I don't know if Verizon will 
even provision a T1 anymore.  I know you can still get a PRI (that's how our 
phone systems interface with the PSTN), but if we needed a CT1 instead, I don't 
know that they'd be able (willing) to deliver it.  I know you can't get a BRI.  
We moved offices a few years ago and we basically lost the ability to use our 
STEs for anything but voice as we couldn't get BRIs delivered to the new space.

Speaking of ISDN, I had equipment that would support 56k ISDN, but never saw it 
provisioned (was that Switch56?  Or am I mixing up FR and ISDN?).  All of the 
ISDN circuits I dealt with were standard 2B+D (BRI), or 23B+D (PRI).  I think 
the oldest (and weirdest) piece of gear I personally worked on was a Gandalf 
ISDN router that was supporting a US Navy site to site connection.  Which makes 
me a newcomer to The Internet compared to a lot of people on this list, I'm 
sure.