[neonixie-l] Re: Possibly offtopic - Vintage MV1 LEDs for sale

2018-04-13 Thread 'AnubisTTP' via neonixie-l 
Yes, that $265 price is in 1969 dollars, the MV2 was insanely expensive 
when it was released. The MV2 was not really usable as an indicator 
though... it can only be seen in a darkened room. The only evidence I have 
ever found of them being used was in scientific experiments in the late 
1960s. I have not been able to pin down a good price for what MV1s sold for 
in single quantities, but a 1968 price list I read listed them at $18 
dollars each in quantites of 1000. It is my understanding that most of the 
assembly for these was done by hand... I have read accounts that say the 
dies were placed in the LEDs manually with a pair of tweezers.

The ones I am selling are not in the original packaging, they were found in 
a plastic sack with the word "MV1" written on it in marker. I also checked 
them under a microscope and they have the same die and internal 
construction as an MV1 I have that was still in it's original Monsanto 
packaging.

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 4:29:31 PM UTC-4, Terry Kennedy wrote:
>
>
>
> Do you know what the list price for this was back in 1968? Your MV2 
> article says "a new MV2 was approximately $265 dollars in 1969". Was 
> that expressed in 1969 dollars, or in current dollars? If in 1969 dollars, 
> that was a HUGE sum - for the more youthful people here, you could buy any 
> one of a number of number of brand new mid-range cars (and even some sports 
> cars like the Opel GT were in that range) for the low $3000's, and a VW 
> Beetle was only $1699.
>
> How much of the production was hand assembly (you show several production 
> failures in your article)? Do you know if they ever automated the line any 
> further? I worked at a factory in the mid-1970's that produced bases for 
> crystal cans, and that was all done by hand although the leads were 
> purchased as pre-forms. One of the factory's biggest sellers was the base 
> for the Motorola 3.58MHz crystal that was used in many television sets.
>
> Moving back on-topic, are the ones you have for sale loose pieces, in the 
> original clamshell, or in the later plastic bag?
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Electron Diffraction CRT

2018-04-13 Thread John Rehwinkel 
> Here's an odd beauty
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cathode-Ray-Tube-Electron-Diffraction-Tube/132570918496?hash=item1eddd7ae60:g:0TsAAOSwCBFavOGv
> 
> I appears to be a demonstration of electron diffraction behaviour. If you 
> look inside the tube you can see a target in line with the electron gun. From 
> physics lessons at school I remember a much simpler CRT assembly. This 
> appears to have deflection plates, PDA and a flat screen. So it appears to be 
> a much more sophisticated piece of kit than a simple school demonstration for 
> a bunch of bored teenagers.
> 
> I post it here to see if anyone can offer any commentary or enlightenment on 
> why the precision? Or is the tube something completely different?

Thanks for the heads up!  I won it for the £9 starting bid (plus £38 
shipping...)!

- John

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Possibly offtopic - Vintage MV1 LEDs for sale

2018-04-13 Thread Instrument Resources of America 
"insanely expensive" YES! That is true of any and all new technologies 
that I can think of. It wasn't that long ago that small flat screen, 
hang on the wall, televisions were several thousands of dollars. Now 
they are available NIB for under three hundred bucks.  The really large 
sets keep coming down in price as well. And the quality keeps getting 
better as well.      Ira



On 4/13/2018 6:24 AM, 'AnubisTTP' via neonixie-l wrote:
Yes, that $265 price is in 1969 dollars, the MV2 was insanely 
expensive when it was released. The MV2 was not really usable as an 
indicator though... it can only be seen in a darkened room. The only 
evidence I have ever found of them being used was in scientific 
experiments in the late 1960s. I have not been able to pin down a good 
price for what MV1s sold for in single quantities, but a 1968 price 
list I read listed them at $18 dollars each in quantites of 1000. It 
is my understanding that most of the assembly for these was done by 
hand... I have read accounts that say the dies were placed in the LEDs 
manually with a pair of tweezers.


The ones I am selling are not in the original packaging, they were 
found in a plastic sack with the word "MV1" written on it in marker. I 
also checked them under a microscope and they have the same die and 
internal construction as an MV1 I have that was still in it's original 
Monsanto packaging.


On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 4:29:31 PM UTC-4, Terry Kennedy wrote:



Do you know what the list price for this was back in 1968? Your
MV2 article says "a new MV2 was approximately $265 dollars in
1969". Was that expressed in 1969 dollars, or in current dollars?
If in 1969 dollars, that was a HUGE sum - for the more youthful
people here, you could buy any one of a number of number of brand
new mid-range cars (and even some sports cars like the Opel GT
were in that range) for the low $3000's, and a VW Beetle was only
$1699.

How much of the production was hand assembly (you show several
production failures in your article)? Do you know if they ever
automated the line any further? I worked at a factory in the
mid-1970's that produced bases for crystal cans, and that was all
done by hand although the leads were purchased as pre-forms. One
of the factory's biggest sellers was the base for the Motorola
3.58MHz crystal that was used in many television sets.

Moving back on-topic, are the ones you have for sale loose pieces,
in the original clamshell, or in the later plastic bag?

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Possibly offtopic - Vintage MV1 LEDs for sale

2018-04-13 Thread jb-electronics 
Is there a datasheet for this LED? I am really interested in the current 
draw. (The voltage is fixed, more or less, by the wavelength. So the 
current will tell us something about the efficiency.) Jens


On 4/13/2018 9:06 AM, Instrument Resources of America wrote:


"insanely expensive" YES! That is true of any and all new technologies 
that I can think of. It wasn't that long ago that small flat screen, 
hang on the wall, televisions were several thousands of dollars. Now 
they are available NIB for under three hundred bucks.  The really 
large sets keep coming down in price as well. And the quality keeps 
getting better as well.      Ira



On 4/13/2018 6:24 AM, 'AnubisTTP' via neonixie-l wrote:
Yes, that $265 price is in 1969 dollars, the MV2 was insanely 
expensive when it was released. The MV2 was not really usable as an 
indicator though... it can only be seen in a darkened room. The only 
evidence I have ever found of them being used was in scientific 
experiments in the late 1960s. I have not been able to pin down a 
good price for what MV1s sold for in single quantities, but a 1968 
price list I read listed them at $18 dollars each in quantites of 
1000. It is my understanding that most of the assembly for these was 
done by hand... I have read accounts that say the dies were placed in 
the LEDs manually with a pair of tweezers.


The ones I am selling are not in the original packaging, they were 
found in a plastic sack with the word "MV1" written on it in marker. 
I also checked them under a microscope and they have the same die and 
internal construction as an MV1 I have that was still in it's 
original Monsanto packaging.


On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 4:29:31 PM UTC-4, Terry Kennedy wrote:



Do you know what the list price for this was back in 1968? Your
MV2 article says "a new MV2 was approximately $265 dollars in
1969". Was that expressed in 1969 dollars, or in current dollars?
If in 1969 dollars, that was a HUGE sum - for the more youthful
people here, you could buy any one of a number of number of brand
new mid-range cars (and even some sports cars like the Opel GT
were in that range) for the low $3000's, and a VW Beetle was only
$1699.

How much of the production was hand assembly (you show several
production failures in your article)? Do you know if they ever
automated the line any further? I worked at a factory in the
mid-1970's that produced bases for crystal cans, and that was all
done by hand although the leads were purchased as pre-forms. One
of the factory's biggest sellers was the base for the Motorola
3.58MHz crystal that was used in many television sets.

Moving back on-topic, are the ones you have for sale loose
pieces, in the original clamshell, or in the later plastic bag?

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Possibly offtopic - Vintage MV1 LEDs for sale

2018-04-13 Thread 'jf...@my-deja.com' via neonixie-l 
On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 8:27:35 AM UTC-7, Jens Boos wrote:
>
> Is there a datasheet for this LED? I am really interested in the current 
> draw. (The voltage is fixed, more or less, by the wavelength. So the 
> current will tell us something about the efficiency.) Jens
>
Google "GaAs LED  efficiency".  According to 
https://www.ele.uva.es/~pedro/optoele/LEDs/Bright_LEDs.pdf , before 1973 
the efficiency was  under 1% or under 0.2%, depending on the chemistry.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Possibly offtopic - Vintage MV1 LEDs for sale

2018-04-13 Thread Terry S 


On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 10:06:20 AM UTC-5, I wrote:
>
> "insanely expensive" YES! That is true of any and all new technologies 
> that I can think of. It wasn't that long ago that small flat screen, hang 
> on the wall, televisions were several thousands of dollars. Now they are 
> available NIB for under three hundred bucks.  The really large sets keep 
> coming down in price as well. And the quality keeps getting better as 
> well.  Ira
>
>
> Yes and no. It's still possible to buy a really crappy LCD tv. I own one.  

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Possibly offtopic - Vintage MV1 LEDs for sale

2018-04-13 Thread Nick 
On Friday, 13 April 2018 20:10:06 UTC+4, Terry S  wrote:
> 
> Yes and no. It's still possible to buy a really crappy LCD tv. I own one.

:)

Nick

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Possibly offtopic - Vintage MV1 LEDs for sale

2018-04-13 Thread gregebert 
I wonder if someday in the distant future, the google group "neoled" will 
be full of stories about 7-segment LED displays selling for hundreds of 
dollars each on Ebay.and even-more-expensive steampunk LED clocks.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Possibly offtopic - Vintage MV1 LEDs for sale

2018-04-13 Thread Instrument Resources of America 
With that kind of terrible efficiency, and the horrendous cost, what 
exactly did engineers see in these things, at that time?? Ira.



On 4/13/2018 8:44 AM, 'jf...@my-deja.com' via neonixie-l wrote:

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 8:27:35 AM UTC-7, Jens Boos wrote:

Is there a datasheet for this LED? I am really interested in the
current draw. (The voltage is fixed, more or less, by the
wavelength. So the current will tell us something about the
efficiency.) Jens

Google "GaAs LED  efficiency".  According to 
https://www.ele.uva.es/~pedro/optoele/LEDs/Bright_LEDs.pdf , before 
1973 the efficiency was  under 1% or under 0.2%, depending on the 
chemistry.

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<>

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Possibly offtopic - Vintage MV1 LEDs for sale

2018-04-13 Thread Jeff Walton 
Potential. 


Jeff
 Original message From: Instrument Resources of America 
 Date: 4/13/18  4:54 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: 
"'jf...@my-deja.com' via neonixie-l"  Subject: Re: 
[neonixie-l] Re: Possibly offtopic - Vintage MV1 LEDs for sale 

With that kind of terrible efficiency, and the horrendous cost,
  what exactly did engineers see in these things, at that time?? 
  Ira.




On 4/13/2018 8:44 AM,
  'jf...@my-deja.com' via neonixie-l wrote:



  On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 8:27:35 AM UTC-7, Jens
Boos wrote:

  
Is there a datasheet for this LED? I am really
  interested in the current draw. (The voltage is fixed,
  more or less, by the wavelength. So the current will tell
  us something about the efficiency.) Jens


  

Google "GaAs LED  efficiency".  According to
  https://www.ele.uva.es/~pedro/optoele/LEDs/Bright_LEDs.pdf ,
  before 1973 the efficiency was  under 1% or under 0.2%,
  depending on the chemistry.


  
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