Re: [NTG-context] PDF/UA Support

2015-10-20 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 10/20/2015 5:11 AM, Alan BRASLAU wrote:


My understanding of PDF/UA is a very valid requirement to make texts
accessible through standard tools, in particular but not limited to
users having visual deficiencies, for example. This is the reason, not
hype, behind the US government pushing this standard.


Sure, I understand that, but from what I've seen as demos I'm far from 
convinced. If indeed that is the reason, then a better 'demand' would be 
to provide several versions of the pdf (if rendering i.e. placement on 
the page is important), for instance: b/w : for colorblind, large size 
fonts, less fancy layouts etc .. in fact that would be an easy 
requirement to meet.


The strange thing is that this tagged pdf standard does not have 
provision to embed the whole source (in xml) and point to nodes, which 
would be much more interesting (but not for publishers of course).


It just puzzles me why solutions for problems need to be complex. Or to 
put it otherwise: if I had a disability I would consider this solution a 
crappy poor mans one, not a real one.



Alternative rendering (via web browsers, for example) will remain
inferior for most uses as it will not benefit from much of what the TeX
engine can produce, so this cannot really be the motivation.


It depends, providing an html file alongside even if it looks worse is 
still better than some synthetic voice trying to make something of the 
semi-structured content. In fact, I can imagine serious documents to 
have proper audio embedded, done in a way that does justice to the problem.


Anyway ... we do support it, but on your bsd system: what viewer do you 
use that supports it? We have tags for years and can't even test it 
properly (ok, that has been the same for more pdf stuff).



For reasons of Universal Accessibility, it would be a good idea for
ConTeXt to indeed activate tagging by default. The argument of runtime
and filesize (when proofing and in automatic workflows) is somewhat
weak for one can ALWAYS deactivate this tagging for such cases. May I
suggest that Hans reconsider his stand on this issue for the sake of
promotion of ConTeXt as a very advanced typesetting tool.


our main own application of context is relative fast processing of 
complex xml document and tagging is adding a lot of overhead


interesting is btw that pdf has all kind of compression and that has not 
always influenced its design in a positive way, but with tagging the 
file can become many times larger which is no fun (esp when one produces 
huge pdf's then need to go over the web)


there are not many cases where in context we changed the default and 
it's generally a bad idea as then one needs to go over all workflows and 
en/disable things


of course the user can easily enable it on his system: just drop a 
cont-loc.mkiv file in your texmf-local/tex/context/user path and enable 
it there


Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] PDF/UA Support

2015-10-20 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 10/20/2015 4:35 AM, Andrew Dunning wrote:



On 19 Oct 2015, at 5:33 PM, Hans Hagen  wrote:

Indeed context supports tagged pdf already for a while, although only acrobat 
can do something with it. Making it default is not really an option as there is 
overhead involved (a bit more runtime and much larger filesize) that makes no 
sense when proofing documents and in workflows for print, but enabling is easy 
with

\setuptagging[state=start]


Thank you! Would it also be possible to have something to the effect of 
`\setupbackend[format={pdf/ua:2014}` to set up the appropriate options?


you have to discuss that with Peter Rolf as he is the one who keeps an 
eye on all possible combinations of settings for pdf standards (and 
checks with validators)



Btw, this feature relates to export to XML. Personally I wonder why this UA is 
such a hype, probably because publishers are reluctant to embed the document 
source in the pdf, which make much more sense when alternative rendering is 
needed.


I agree that I would prefer to see PDFs given alongside good HTML, but the 
reality is that this will not happen for some time to come, and in the meantime 
PDFs remain inaccessible to anyone with a print disability (and inconvenient 
for the rest of us). If we can improve this situation, it is only right that we 
do so. If we can in the process encourage wider adoption of ConTeXt, even 
better.


an interesting side track would be a set of alternative styles that can 
be used: b/w, larger sizes, opendyslectic fonts, etc ... so, to kind of 
set a standard of producing several versions of one document


Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] PDF/UA Support

2015-10-20 Thread Ulrike Fischer 
Am Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:10:29 +0200 schrieb luigi scarso:

>>  Please note that the PDFs produced by ConTeXt when tagging is enabled are
>> still some steps short of being PDF/UA compliant. You can check this with
>> the freely available "PDF Accessibility Checker". (Just google for it.)

> http://www.access-for-all.ch/en/pdf-lab/pdf-accessibility-checker-pac.html

After TUG 2015 I played a bit around with PAC2 and found a bug: The
application crashes if the pdf contains a type1 font. For context
this shouldn't be a real problem but you can test it with

\font\test=cmr10
\starttext
\test
hello World
\stoptext

(I reported the problem but don't know if they will do something
about it).

-- 
Ulrike Fischer 
http://www.troubleshooting-tex.de/

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Re: [NTG-context] PDF/UA Support

2015-10-20 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 10/20/2015 10:10 AM, luigi scarso wrote:



On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Christoph Reller
> wrote:

On Mon, 19 Oct 2015 22:35:46 -0400 > wrote:

> On 19 Oct 2015, at 5:33 PM, Hans Hagen > wrote:
>
> Indeed context supports tagged pdf already for a while, although only 
acrobat can do something with it. Making it default is not really an option as 
there is overhead involved (a bit more runtime and much larger filesize) that 
makes no sense when proofing documents and in workflows for print, but enabling is 
easy with
>
> \setuptagging[state=start]

Thank you! Would it also be possible to have something to the
effect of `\setupbackend[format={pdf/ua:2014}` to set up the
appropriate options?

Hi,
Please note that the PDFs produced by ConTeXt when tagging is
enabled are still some steps short of being PDF/UA compliant. You
can check this with the freely available "PDF Accessibility
Checker". (Just google for it.)



http://www.access-for-all.ch/en/pdf-lab/pdf-accessibility-checker-pac.html


but no public spec ... just a to be payed for iso one ..

(and i don't have the latest acrobat pro either)

Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] use of preceding-sibling in xmlsetsetup

2015-10-20 Thread massifr 
Here's the (complete) code:

\startbuffer[test]

  Dear list,
  this paragraph should not be indented, because it 
follows the “incipit”
  of the letter.
  This one and the following ones should be indented.
  You may question whether “Dear list,” should be a paragraph of his own,
  but my text is already formatted like that and I can’t do anything 
  about it.

\stopbuffer
 
\startxmlsetups xml:somesetups
  \xmlsetsetup{#1}{text}{xml:text}
  \xmlsetsetup{#1}{p}{xml:p}
  \xmlsetsetup{#1}{p[@class='incipit']}{xml:p:noindent}
  % the following lpath expression does not work
  % \xmlsetsetup{#1}{p[reverse-sibling::p[1]/attribute('class') == 
'incipit']}{xml:p:noindent}
\stopxmlsetups

\xmlregistersetup{xml:somesetups}

\startxmlsetups xml:text
  \indenting[{yes,first,12pt}]
  \xmlflush{#1}
\stopxmlsetups

\startxmlsetups xml:p
  \doif{\xmlattribute{#1}{reverse-sibling::p[1]}{class}}{incipit}{\noindent}
  \xmlflush{#1}\par
\stopxmlsetups
 
\startxmlsetups xml:p:noindent
  \noindent\xmlflush{#1}\par
\stopxmlsetups

\starttext
  \xmlprocessbuffer{main}{test}{}
\stoptext
 
It's the example of the original message of this thread, with the 
modifications posted in the second message.

In the \startxmlsetups section I tried to put that condition in a
\xmlsetsetup, but I commented it out because it did not work.
 
Here's where I found an example with reverse-sibling:
https://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context%40ntg.nl/msg77364.html
I was searching for "sibling" in the mailing list archive to see whether
"sibling expressions" had been implemented.

Greetings,
Massi

> > On 10/17/2015 11:19 AM, mf wrote:
> > > "reverse-sibling" is ConTeXt specific and very useful: it's a "reversed
> > > preceding-sibling", so that you find the nearest sibling at index [1].
> > > I've used it successfully in a \doif statement, but I failed in
> > > translating it in a \xmlsetsetup statement, to tell ConTeXt: "this
> > > setup is for an element p whose nearest preceding sibling p has class
> > > 'incipit'".
> > 
> > In that case, why don't you show the code where you've used it 
> > successfully and maybe we can take it from there.
> > 
> > Thomas
> > 

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Re: [NTG-context] PDF/UA Support

2015-10-20 Thread Christoph Reller 
On Mon, 19 Oct 2015 22:35:46 -0400  wrote:

> > On 19 Oct 2015, at 5:33 PM, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> >
> > Indeed context supports tagged pdf already for a while, although only
> acrobat can do something with it. Making it default is not really an option
> as there is overhead involved (a bit more runtime and much larger filesize)
> that makes no sense when proofing documents and in workflows for print, but
> enabling is easy with
> >
> > \setuptagging[state=start]
>
> Thank you! Would it also be possible to have something to the effect of
> `\setupbackend[format={pdf/ua:2014}` to set up the appropriate options?
>
Hi,
Please note that the PDFs produced by ConTeXt when tagging is enabled are
still some steps short of being PDF/UA compliant. You can check this with
the freely available "PDF Accessibility Checker". (Just google for it.)
Nevertheless, ConTeXt is the only TeX-based option that supports PDF
tagging and it does a good job - thank you Hans for your efforts.
Regards,
Christoph Reller
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Re: [NTG-context] PDF/UA Support

2015-10-20 Thread luigi scarso 
On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Christoph Reller <
christoph.rel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Oct 2015 22:35:46 -0400  wrote:
>
>> > On 19 Oct 2015, at 5:33 PM, Hans Hagen  wrote:
>> >
>> > Indeed context supports tagged pdf already for a while, although only
>> acrobat can do something with it. Making it default is not really an option
>> as there is overhead involved (a bit more runtime and much larger filesize)
>> that makes no sense when proofing documents and in workflows for print, but
>> enabling is easy with
>> >
>> > \setuptagging[state=start]
>>
>> Thank you! Would it also be possible to have something to the effect of
>> `\setupbackend[format={pdf/ua:2014}` to set up the appropriate options?
>>
> Hi,
> Please note that the PDFs produced by ConTeXt when tagging is enabled are
> still some steps short of being PDF/UA compliant. You can check this with
> the freely available "PDF Accessibility Checker". (Just google for it.)
>
>


http://www.access-for-all.ch/en/pdf-lab/pdf-accessibility-checker-pac.html

-- 
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] PDF/UA Support

2015-10-20 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 10/20/2015 3:37 PM, Alan BRASLAU wrote:

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:31:05 +0200
Hans Hagen  wrote:


but no public spec ... just a to be payed for iso one ..


Is the following useful?
http://www.aiim.org/Research-and-Publications/standards/committees/PDFUA/


no fun reading from a web page ... btw, most of this tag stuff is rather 
old already and in this big pdf standard (1.7) ... so i don't expect to 
many issues (probably a few extra keys in the catalog and so)


Peter will look into it.

Hans

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[NTG-context] Fwd: JabRef Survey

2015-10-20 Thread Henning Hraban Ramm 
Are there users of ConTeXt plus JabRef?
---
Hello,

JabRef is an open-source software for bibliographic management.
To foster its developments, the JabRef core team is conducting a survey:


We are interested in getting your opinion (whether you are currently a 
user or you decided to move to another software).

The survey is open up to November 14, and consists of 3 sets of questions:
- What do you think about the current features?
- Which new features should be included?
- Who are JabRef users?
It will take between 15 and 30 minutes to complete.
See: 

The survey is anonymous, and the server is hosted by a research 
institute (Inra, France). If you have any question regarding this 
survey, please feel free to contact me: 

Thank you for your time!

Frédéric Darboux, for the JabRef core team


Additional information about JabRef
- 
- 
- 

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Re: [NTG-context] PDF/UA Support

2015-10-20 Thread Andrew Dunning 

> On 20 Oct 2015, at 9:26 AM, Peter Rolf  wrote:
> 
> Will look into it (sorry, but I am kind of ignorant to new standards,
> that I don't use myself) :D

That’s hugely appreciated; I am not much of a programmer, but let me know if 
there is anything I can do to help.

All best,

Andrew Dunning
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Re: [NTG-context] Fwd: JabRef Survey

2015-10-20 Thread Mojca Miklavec 
On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> Are there users of ConTeXt plus JabRef?

Thanks a lot for the link. I loved the software, but then stopped
using it because it was too latex-centric at the time and I had to
switch to ConTeXt-specific input. Now I'm using "plain bibtex" as
input again, so it might be closer to my needs and maybe getting
sufficient feedback from ConTeXt users could trigger better support in
the future.

Mojca

> ---
> Hello,
>
> JabRef is an open-source software for bibliographic management.
> To foster its developments, the JabRef core team is conducting a survey:
> 
>
> We are interested in getting your opinion (whether you are currently a
> user or you decided to move to another software).
>
> The survey is open up to November 14, and consists of 3 sets of questions:
> - What do you think about the current features?
> - Which new features should be included?
> - Who are JabRef users?
> It will take between 15 and 30 minutes to complete.
> See: 
>
> The survey is anonymous, and the server is hosted by a research
> institute (Inra, France). If you have any question regarding this
> survey, please feel free to contact me: 
>
> Thank you for your time!
>
> Frédéric Darboux, for the JabRef core team
>
>
> Additional information about JabRef
> - 
> - 
> - 
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Re: [NTG-context] Fwd: JabRef Survey

2015-10-20 Thread Alan BRASLAU 
Hi,

I have written about JabRef in the soon to be distributed ConTeXt
bibliography subsystem documentation.

It is a fair program, but can ruin your bibtex data files if you are
not careful. Answering Mojca's comment, jabref is highly configurable,
so one could eventually make a decent ConTeXt configuration.

The main problem, from my point of view, is that jabref, as configured
by default, does not respect the "standard" (original) bibtex
definitions, and seems rather adapted for some flavors of biblatex that
has strayed from such standard uses. Nevertheless, jabref is a good
starting point or tool that can be used to convert, say, EndNote
exported reference lists to bibtex format.

Of course, java is not supported on all tablets and smartphones, as far
as I understand, so it is slowly being replaced by other languages. I
saw this recently for some teaching tools that are being re-written in
HTML5 (a stumbling block for these has been jmol that is sometimes used
for chemistry and biochemistry applications).

Alan


On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 19:17:25 +0200
Mojca Miklavec  wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> > Are there users of ConTeXt plus JabRef?  
> 
> Thanks a lot for the link. I loved the software, but then stopped
> using it because it was too latex-centric at the time and I had to
> switch to ConTeXt-specific input. Now I'm using "plain bibtex" as
> input again, so it might be closer to my needs and maybe getting
> sufficient feedback from ConTeXt users could trigger better support in
> the future.
> 
> Mojca
> 
> > ---
> > Hello,
> >
> > JabRef is an open-source software for bibliographic management.
> > To foster its developments, the JabRef core team is conducting a
> > survey: 
> >
> > We are interested in getting your opinion (whether you are
> > currently a user or you decided to move to another software).
> >
> > The survey is open up to November 14, and consists of 3 sets of
> > questions:
> > - What do you think about the current features?
> > - Which new features should be included?
> > - Who are JabRef users?
> > It will take between 15 and 30 minutes to complete.
> > See: 
> >
> > The survey is anonymous, and the server is hosted by a research
> > institute (Inra, France). If you have any question regarding this
> > survey, please feel free to contact me:
> > 
> >
> > Thank you for your time!
> >
> > Frédéric Darboux, for the JabRef core team
> >
> >
> > Additional information about JabRef
> > - 
> > - 
> > -   
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> 
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Re: [NTG-context] use of preceding-sibling in xmlsetsetup

2015-10-20 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 10/20/2015 11:48 AM, mass...@fastwebnet.it wrote:

Here's the (complete) code:

\startbuffer[test]

   Dear list,
   this paragraph should not be indented, because it 
follows the “incipit”
   of the letter.
   This one and the following ones should be indented.
   You may question whether “Dear list,” should be a paragraph of his own,
   but my text is already formatted like that and I can’t do anything
   about it.

\stopbuffer

\startxmlsetups xml:somesetups
   \xmlsetsetup{#1}{text}{xml:text}
   \xmlsetsetup{#1}{p}{xml:p}
   \xmlsetsetup{#1}{p[@class='incipit']}{xml:p:noindent}
   % the following lpath expression does not work
   % \xmlsetsetup{#1}{p[reverse-sibling::p[1]/attribute('class') == 
'incipit']}{xml:p:noindent}
\stopxmlsetups


\xmlsetsetup{#1}{p/reverse-sibling::p[1][@class=='incipit']/following-sibling::p[1]}{xml:p:noindent}

or

\xmlsetsetup{#1}{p/reverse-sibling::p[position()==1 and 
@class=='incipit']/following-sibling::p[1]}{xml:p:noindent}



\xmlregistersetup{xml:somesetups}

\startxmlsetups xml:text
   \indenting[{yes,first,12pt}]
   \xmlflush{#1}
\stopxmlsetups

\startxmlsetups xml:p
   \doif{\xmlattribute{#1}{reverse-sibling::p[1]}{class}}{incipit}{\noindent}
   \xmlflush{#1}\par
\stopxmlsetups

\startxmlsetups xml:p:noindent
   \noindent\xmlflush{#1}\par
\stopxmlsetups

\starttext
   \xmlprocessbuffer{main}{test}{}
\stoptext

It's the example of the original message of this thread, with the
modifications posted in the second message.

In the \startxmlsetups section I tried to put that condition in a
\xmlsetsetup, but I commented it out because it did not work.

Here's where I found an example with reverse-sibling:
https://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context%40ntg.nl/msg77364.html
I was searching for "sibling" in the mailing list archive to see whether
"sibling expressions" had been implemented.

Greetings,
Massi


On 10/17/2015 11:19 AM, mf wrote:

"reverse-sibling" is ConTeXt specific and very useful: it's a "reversed
preceding-sibling", so that you find the nearest sibling at index [1].
I've used it successfully in a \doif statement, but I failed in
translating it in a \xmlsetsetup statement, to tell ConTeXt: "this
setup is for an element p whose nearest preceding sibling p has class
'incipit'".


In that case, why don't you show the code where you've used it
successfully and maybe we can take it from there.

Thomas



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Re: [NTG-context] PDF/UA Support

2015-10-20 Thread Andrew Dunning 

> On 20 Oct 2015, at 5:32 PM, Peter Rolf  wrote:
> 
> You are the first user of this feature, so your job will be to test it
> properly, once it's implemented. The programming work will exclusively
> be done by Hans. All I do is find out the formal definitions of the
> standard (needed XMP entries, supported PDF features, etc.). You and I
> do the boring part and he has all the fun ;-)

Brilliant; I have some friends who work for the Ontario School for the Blind, 
so that should be quite feasible. Thanks again!

All best,

Andrew

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Re: [NTG-context] PDF/UA Support

2015-10-20 Thread Peter Rolf 
Am 20.10.2015 um 20:03 schrieb Andrew Dunning:
> 
>> On 20 Oct 2015, at 9:26 AM, Peter Rolf  wrote:
>>
>> Will look into it (sorry, but I am kind of ignorant to new standards,
>> that I don't use myself) :D
> 
> That’s hugely appreciated; I am not much of a programmer, but let me know if 
> there is anything I can do to help.
>

You are the first user of this feature, so your job will be to test it
properly, once it's implemented. The programming work will exclusively
be done by Hans. All I do is find out the formal definitions of the
standard (needed XMP entries, supported PDF features, etc.). You and I
do the boring part and he has all the fun ;-)


> All best,
> 
> Andrew Dunning
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[NTG-context] ePub and Metapost

2015-10-20 Thread Fabrice Couvreur 
Hi,
Is it possible to produce a epub file from a file containing a figure made with 
Metapost ? 
Thanks,
Fabrice

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Re: [NTG-context] PDF/UA Support

2015-10-20 Thread Peter Rolf 
Am 20.10.2015 um 09:12 schrieb Hans Hagen:
> On 10/20/2015 4:35 AM, Andrew Dunning wrote:
>>
>>> On 19 Oct 2015, at 5:33 PM, Hans Hagen  wrote:
>>>
>>> Indeed context supports tagged pdf already for a while, although only
>>> acrobat can do something with it. Making it default is not really an
>>> option as there is overhead involved (a bit more runtime and much
>>> larger filesize) that makes no sense when proofing documents and in
>>> workflows for print, but enabling is easy with
>>>
>>> \setuptagging[state=start]
>>
>> Thank you! Would it also be possible to have something to the effect
>> of `\setupbackend[format={pdf/ua:2014}` to set up the appropriate
>> options?
> 
> you have to discuss that with Peter Rolf as he is the one who keeps an
> eye on all possible combinations of settings for pdf standards (and
> checks with validators)
>

Will look into it (sorry, but I am kind of ignorant to new standards,
that I don't use myself) :D

I can only hope that the validator (@Luigi: thanks for the link) does a
good job, as my ancient Acrobat Pro 9 doesn't know the standard. It will
also take some time to gather the (free available) information, but I
don't see a general problem now. I'll report back in a few days.


>>> Btw, this feature relates to export to XML. Personally I wonder why
>>> this UA is such a hype, probably because publishers are reluctant to
>>> embed the document source in the pdf, which make much more sense when
>>> alternative rendering is needed.
>>
>> I agree that I would prefer to see PDFs given alongside good HTML, but
>> the reality is that this will not happen for some time to come, and in
>> the meantime PDFs remain inaccessible to anyone with a print
>> disability (and inconvenient for the rest of us). If we can improve
>> this situation, it is only right that we do so. If we can in the
>> process encourage wider adoption of ConTeXt, even better.
> 
> an interesting side track would be a set of alternative styles that can
> be used: b/w, larger sizes, opendyslectic fonts, etc ... so, to kind of
> set a standard of producing several versions of one document
> 
> Hans
> 
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>  | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 

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Re: [NTG-context] PDF/UA Support

2015-10-20 Thread Alan BRASLAU 
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:31:05 +0200
Hans Hagen  wrote:

> but no public spec ... just a to be payed for iso one ..

Is the following useful?
http://www.aiim.org/Research-and-Publications/standards/committees/PDFUA/

Alan
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