Re: [NTG-context] Second derivative ''

2020-03-05 Thread Mikael P. Sundqvist 
On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 9:09 PM Wolfgang Schuster <
wolfgang.schuster.li...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Mikael P. Sundqvist schrieb am 05.03.2020 um 20:48:
>
> Oh, I had not. It looks better with collapsing=1, indeed. A few neq
> questions comes to me:
>
> Does ConTeXt not use the same prime character as in TeX/LaTeX? Or has
> something changed in latin modern? See the attached pdf files
> (derivatives.pdf from ConTeXt and primetime-crop.pdf from lualatex). The
> prime character looks more slanted in ConTeXt. It also almost looks like it
> is cut horizontally at the bottom of the character. Also, the space between
> the two x in the subscript looks a bit large to me. Is that easily tuned?
>
>
> ConTeXt uses the OpenType version of the Latin Modern math font
> while your LaTeX file uses the older Type1 version of the font
> which uses multiple files for the different sizes. You can see this
> when look into the document information which can be done
> with your PDF viewer (or a command line tool like pdffonts).
>
> Wolfgang
>
>
Thanks! That was sloppy of me not to check in the pdf before sending. I
attach the correct file generated by lualatex for others. Indeed, the
primes are "cut off" horizontally, but perhaps that is a choice of design.

The question regarding spaces in the subscript remains.

/Mikael


primetime-crop-otf.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [NTG-context] Second derivative ''

2020-03-05 Thread Wolfgang Schuster 

Mikael P. Sundqvist schrieb am 05.03.2020 um 20:48:
Oh, I had not. It looks better with collapsing=1, indeed. A few neq 
questions comes to me:


Does ConTeXt not use the same prime character as in TeX/LaTeX? Or has 
something changed in latin modern? See the attached pdf files 
(derivatives.pdf from ConTeXt and primetime-crop.pdf from lualatex). 
The prime character looks more slanted in ConTeXt. It also almost 
looks like it is cut horizontally at the bottom of the character. 
Also, the space between the two x in the subscript looks a bit large 
to me. Is that easily tuned?


ConTeXt uses the OpenType version of the Latin Modern math font
while your LaTeX file uses the older Type1 version of the font
which uses multiple files for the different sizes. You can see this
when look into the document information which can be done
with your PDF viewer (or a command line tool like pdffonts).

Wolfgang

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Re: [NTG-context] Second derivative ''

2020-03-05 Thread Mikael P. Sundqvist 
On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 6:34 PM Hans Hagen  wrote:

> On 3/5/2020 5:41 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 5:36 PM Aditya Mahajan  > > wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 5 Mar 2020, Hans Hagen wrote:
> >
> >  > On 3/4/2020 11:44 PM, Weber, Matthias wrote:
> >  >> Dear List,
> >  >>
> >  >> \starttext
> >  >> \startformula
> >  >> \left(f\right)'' = f''
> >  >> \stopformula
> >  >> \stoptext
> >  >>
> >  >> has the second apostrophe set too low. This is in MKIV on
> > ConTeXt live as
> >  > well as in my slightly older version.
> >  >> What is the “right” way to typeset a second derivative?
> >  > you have to turn on
> >  >
> >  > \setupmathematics
> >  >   [collapsing=3]
> >  >
> >  > but it has the side effect of also collapsing more:
> >  >
> >  > $x'' >= 10$
> >  >
> >  > (which is why the mechanism is currently turned off by default)
> >  >
> >  > i'll think about an option that only does some specific ones only
> >  >
> >  > (btw, i love tex but these primes are a bit painful due to th
> > eorriginal
> >  > approach which has lead mixtures of (1) raised in the font and/or
> > raised
> >  > in the engine, (2) them being superscripts but not really, (3)
> fonts
> >  > therefore doing it inconsistently, (4) some parsing related to
> > multiple
> >  > scripts, (5) double, tripple, etc primes being real unicode
> > characters
> >  > but spaced singles in traditional tex (which itself then
> > introduces some
> >  > size juggling) ... i could proabbly write a few pages about it)
> >
> > So what's the best way to input them: using \prime, \prime\prime,
> etc.?
> >
> >
>  
> Aditya___
> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an
> > entry to the Wiki!
> >
> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl  /
> > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> > archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> > wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> >
>  
> ___
> >
> >
> > And what is the way if one also want indices:
> >
> > $f''_{xx}$ or $f_{xx}''$ or ... ?
> >
> > I want the indices under the primes
>
> did you try with
>
> \setupmathematics
>[collapsing=1]
>
> both work but (i'm no mathematician) i'd opt for
>
> $f_{xx}''$
>
> as it says take the second something from f_{whatever} unless of course
> the index applies the second something
>
> But i bet that Aditya can give the real answer.
>
> Hans
>
> -
>Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
>

Oh, I had not. It looks better with collapsing=1, indeed. A few neq
questions comes to me:

Does ConTeXt not use the same prime character as in TeX/LaTeX? Or has
something changed in latin modern? See the attached pdf files
(derivatives.pdf from ConTeXt and primetime-crop.pdf from lualatex). The
prime character looks more slanted in ConTeXt. It also almost looks like it
is cut horizontally at the bottom of the character. Also, the space between
the two x in the subscript looks a bit large to me. Is that easily tuned?

/Mikael

The ConTeXt file:
\starttext
\startTEXpage[offset=1bp]
\setupmathematics[collapsing=1]
$f_{xx}''$
\stopTEXpage
\stoptext

The LaTeX file:
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{lmodern}
\pagestyle{empty}
\begin{document}
$f_{xx}''$
\end{document}


derivatives.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


primetime-crop.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [NTG-context] Second derivative ''

2020-03-05 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 3/5/2020 5:41 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 5:36 PM Aditya Mahajan > wrote:


On Thu, 5 Mar 2020, Hans Hagen wrote:

 > On 3/4/2020 11:44 PM, Weber, Matthias wrote:
 >> Dear List,
 >>
 >> \starttext
 >> \startformula
 >> \left(f\right)'' = f''
 >> \stopformula
 >> \stoptext
 >>
 >> has the second apostrophe set too low. This is in MKIV on
ConTeXt live as
 > well as in my slightly older version.
 >> What is the “right” way to typeset a second derivative?
 > you have to turn on
 >
 > \setupmathematics
 >   [collapsing=3]
 >
 > but it has the side effect of also collapsing more:
 >
 > $x'' >= 10$
 >
 > (which is why the mechanism is currently turned off by default)
 >
 > i'll think about an option that only does some specific ones only
 >
 > (btw, i love tex but these primes are a bit painful due to th
eorriginal
 > approach which has lead mixtures of (1) raised in the font and/or
raised
 > in the engine, (2) them being superscripts but not really, (3) fonts
 > therefore doing it inconsistently, (4) some parsing related to
multiple
 > scripts, (5) double, tripple, etc primes being real unicode
characters
 > but spaced singles in traditional tex (which itself then
introduces some
 > size juggling) ... i could proabbly write a few pages about it)

So what's the best way to input them: using \prime, \prime\prime, etc.?


Aditya___
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And what is the way if one also want indices:

$f''_{xx}$ or $f_{xx}''$ or ... ?

I want the indices under the primes


did you try with

\setupmathematics
  [collapsing=1]

both work but (i'm no mathematician) i'd opt for

$f_{xx}''$

as it says take the second something from f_{whatever} unless of course 
the index applies the second something


But i bet that Aditya can give the real answer.

Hans

-
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  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] Second derivative ''

2020-03-05 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 3/5/2020 5:36 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

On Thu, 5 Mar 2020, Hans Hagen wrote:


On 3/4/2020 11:44 PM, Weber, Matthias wrote:

Dear List,

\starttext
\startformula
\left(f\right)'' = f''
\stopformula
\stoptext

has the second apostrophe set too low. This is in MKIV on ConTeXt 
live as 

well as in my slightly older version.

What is the “right” way to typeset a second derivative?

you have to turn on

\setupmathematics
  [collapsing=3]

but it has the side effect of also collapsing more:

$x'' >= 10$

(which is why the mechanism is currently turned off by default)

i'll think about an option that only does some specific ones only

(btw, i love tex but these primes are a bit painful due to th 
eorriginal approach which has lead mixtures of (1) raised in the font 
and/or raised in the engine, (2) them being superscripts but not 
really, (3) fonts therefore doing it inconsistently, (4) some parsing 
related to multiple scripts, (5) double, tripple, etc primes being 
real unicode characters but spaced singles in traditional tex (which 
itself then introduces some size juggling) ... i could proabbly write 
a few pages about it)


So what's the best way to input them: using \prime, \prime\prime, etc.?

well, there is quite some magic that handles all so with

 \setupmathematics
   [collapsing=1] % or higher

it should work ok with '

of course one can also use the unicode characters

Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] Second derivative ''

2020-03-05 Thread Mikael P. Sundqvist 
On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 5:36 PM Aditya Mahajan  wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Mar 2020, Hans Hagen wrote:
>
> > On 3/4/2020 11:44 PM, Weber, Matthias wrote:
> >> Dear List,
> >>
> >> \starttext
> >> \startformula
> >> \left(f\right)'' = f''
> >> \stopformula
> >> \stoptext
> >>
> >> has the second apostrophe set too low. This is in MKIV on ConTeXt live
> as
> > well as in my slightly older version.
> >> What is the “right” way to typeset a second derivative?
> > you have to turn on
> >
> > \setupmathematics
> >   [collapsing=3]
> >
> > but it has the side effect of also collapsing more:
> >
> > $x'' >= 10$
> >
> > (which is why the mechanism is currently turned off by default)
> >
> > i'll think about an option that only does some specific ones only
> >
> > (btw, i love tex but these primes are a bit painful due to th eorriginal
> > approach which has lead mixtures of (1) raised in the font and/or raised
> > in the engine, (2) them being superscripts but not really, (3) fonts
> > therefore doing it inconsistently, (4) some parsing related to multiple
> > scripts, (5) double, tripple, etc primes being real unicode characters
> > but spaced singles in traditional tex (which itself then introduces some
> > size juggling) ... i could proabbly write a few pages about it)
>
> So what's the best way to input them: using \prime, \prime\prime, etc.?
>
>
> Aditya___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
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> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>
> ___
>

And what is the way if one also want indices:

$f''_{xx}$ or $f_{xx}''$ or ... ?

I want the indices under the primes

/Mikael
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Re: [NTG-context] Second derivative ''

2020-03-05 Thread Aditya Mahajan 

On Thu, 5 Mar 2020, Hans Hagen wrote:


On 3/4/2020 11:44 PM, Weber, Matthias wrote:

Dear List,

\starttext
\startformula
\left(f\right)'' = f''
\stopformula
\stoptext

has the second apostrophe set too low. This is in MKIV on ConTeXt live as 

well as in my slightly older version.

What is the “right” way to typeset a second derivative?

you have to turn on

\setupmathematics
  [collapsing=3]

but it has the side effect of also collapsing more:

$x'' >= 10$

(which is why the mechanism is currently turned off by default)

i'll think about an option that only does some specific ones only

(btw, i love tex but these primes are a bit painful due to th eorriginal 
approach which has lead mixtures of (1) raised in the font and/or raised 
in the engine, (2) them being superscripts but not really, (3) fonts 
therefore doing it inconsistently, (4) some parsing related to multiple 
scripts, (5) double, tripple, etc primes being real unicode characters 
but spaced singles in traditional tex (which itself then introduces some 
size juggling) ... i could proabbly write a few pages about it)


So what's the best way to input them: using \prime, \prime\prime, etc.?

Aditya___
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Re: [NTG-context] Left hanging hyphen

2020-03-05 Thread Tomas Hala 
Hi Wolfgang,

# You can use the default language for the reset:
# 
# \startsetups [language:czech]
#   \setbreakpoints [czcompound]
# \stopsetups
# 
# \startsetups [language:other]
#   \resetbreakpoints
# \stopsetups
# 
# \setuplanguage
#   [cz]
#   [setups=language:czech]
# 
# \setuplanguage
#   [default]
#   [setups=language:other]

I used these definitions and it works really better, the hyphen is not
repeated in other languages anymore, thanks for this setting.
Unfortunately, two side-effects appeared after switching language back to uk:

* after the hyphen, no linebreak seems to be allowed,
* hyphenation patterns have been applied on the composed word, while before 
switching (default) not.

Tested with TL2019 as well as with the newest.

How can these side-effects be suppressed? 

Tomáš


%% MWE
\startluacode
fonts.protrusions.classes.tomas_hala = {
vector = 'tomas_hala',
factor = 1,
}

fonts.protrusions.vectors.tomas_hala = table.merged (
fonts.protrusions.vectors.quality,
{
[0x002D] = { 0.4, 0.7 }, -- hyphen
}
)

\stopluacode

\definebreakpoints [czcompound]
\definebreakpoint [czcompound] [-] [nleft=3,nright=3,type=4]

\startsetups [language:czech]
  \setbreakpoints [czcompound]
\stopsetups
\startsetups [language:other]
  \resetbreakpoints
\stopsetups

\setuplanguage[cz][setups=language:czech]
\setuplanguage[default][setups=language:other]
\definefontfeature [default] [default] [protrusion=tomas_hala]
\setupalign [hz,hanging]

\showframe [text] [text]
\starttext
\hsize=1pt

\mainlanguage [uk] {\bf uk}
modro-zelený
\hyphenatedpar{Stratford Stratford-upon-Avon}  

\mainlanguage [cz] {\bf cz}
modro-zelený
\hyphenatedpar{Stratford Stratford-upon-Avon}

\mainlanguage [uk] {\bf uk} 
modro-zelený
\hyphenatedpar{uk Stratford Stratford-upon-Avon}

\stoptext
 RESULT
uk
modro-
zelený
Strat-
ford
Stratford-
upon-
Avon
cz
modro-
-ze-
lený
Strat-
ford
Strat-
ford-
-upon-
-Avon
uk
modro-zelený
uk
Strat-
ford
Strat-
ford-upon-Avon
%% END
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Re: [NTG-context] Second derivative ''

2020-03-05 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 3/5/2020 10:12 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

On 3/4/2020 11:44 PM, Weber, Matthias wrote:

Dear List,

\starttext
\startformula
\left(f\right)'' = f''
\stopformula
\stoptext

has the second apostrophe set too low. This is in MKIV on ConTeXt live 
as well as in my slightly older version.

What is the “right” way to typeset a second derivative?

you have to turn on

\setupmathematics
   [collapsing=3]

i'll default to collapsing=1

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] unwanted with epub

2020-03-05 Thread Hans van der Meer 
I was wrong. The \penalty is not the culprit, but it turns out to be the \Word 
macro that introduces the  through a parfillskip_code in the internal 
list.

dr. Hans van der Meer


> On 5 Mar 2020, at 09:33, Hans van der Meer  wrote:
> 
> Found the cause in my case: a \penalty0 statement.
> 
> dr. Hans van der Meer


> On 3/3/2020 16:51, Hans van der Meer wrote:
>> In producing epub s are appearing (on the -raw.xml file) that are 
>> unwanted and seem spurious to me. For example aftersome macro's. 
>> Can someone tell me what triggers a ? In the pdf output such breaks 
>> are absent.
>> 
>> dr. Hans van der Meer
>> 

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Re: [NTG-context] Second derivative ''

2020-03-05 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 3/4/2020 11:44 PM, Weber, Matthias wrote:

Dear List,

\starttext
\startformula
\left(f\right)'' = f''
\stopformula
\stoptext

has the second apostrophe set too low. This is in MKIV on ConTeXt live as well 
as in my slightly older version.
What is the “right” way to typeset a second derivative?

you have to turn on

\setupmathematics
  [collapsing=3]

but it has the side effect of also collapsing more:

$x'' >= 10$

(which is why the mechanism is currently turned off by default)

i'll think about an option that only does some specific ones only

(btw, i love tex but these primes are a bit painful due to th eorriginal 
approach which has lead mixtures of (1) raised in the font and/or raised 
in the engine, (2) them being superscripts but not really, (3) fonts 
therefore doing it inconsistently, (4) some parsing related to multiple 
scripts, (5) double, tripple, etc primes being real unicode characters 
but spaced singles in traditional tex (which itself then introduces some 
size juggling) ... i could proabbly write a few pages about it)


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] Capitalize first word of first line within \startlines

2020-03-05 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 3/5/2020 2:46 AM, Thangalin wrote:

If it helps, here's why I thought it would work:

https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Command/definefirstline

The wiki page shows that the macro takes a style option. The style
option links to:

https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Style_Alternatives

This page has a list of predefined styles and describes how to set up
an alternative style:

https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Style_Alternatives#Defining_a_Style_Alternative

 From the wiki page:

\definealternativestyle [head:neat]   [\WORD]   []

While \definealternativestyle[PoemFirstWord][{\bf\uppercasing}][] will
work for my needs, I am concerned that it is inconsistent wrt wiki
documentation, and also appears to expose an inconsistent API, as it
were. Is there any way to make the two conform to the same usage? That
is, it was not obvious (from the wiki) that I could not use "WORD" as
an alternative style even though it is literally listed and used as an
alternative style.
WORD is not a style but some operation on characters so it won't work 
here (ok, i could probably make it work but it would be ugly code) .. it 
happens that some operations can be uses as styles


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] unwanted with epub

2020-03-05 Thread Hans van der Meer 
Found the cause in my case: a \penalty0 statement.

dr. Hans van der Meer


> On 5 Mar 2020, at 03:08, Rik Kabel  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/3/2020 16:51, Hans van der Meer wrote:
>> In producing epub s are appearing (on the -raw.xml file) that are 
>> unwanted and seem spurious to me. For example aftersome macro's. 
>> Can someone tell me what triggers a ? In the pdf output such breaks 
>> are absent.
>> 
>> dr. Hans van der Meer
>> 
> There are many situations in which the export contains break elements that 
> don't appear to be associated with aspects of the pdf output.  See, for 
> example, the following messages from 2018 in which I noted a few of them:
> 
> Spurious breaks in export when blank line ends paragraph 
> 
> More spurious problems in exports 
> 
> Unexpected  in XML output 
> 
> If you provide an example of your ConTeXt source demonstrating the problem, 
> perhaps someone on the list can help.
> 
> -- 
> Rik
> 
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