[NTG-context] footnotes when using RtL (Arabic)
Dear all,
Two quick questions regarding footnotes and Arabic:
1. How do I get a footnote rule/marker to go from right-to-left (i.e. to begin
at the right margin instead of the left margin)?
2. I would like some of my footnote streams to run RtL for Arabic, and also for
those footnotes to be in paragraph form (i.e.
\setupnote[afootnote][paragraph=yes] ). But when I add this command, my
footnote instead runs LtR, the letters get cut up (i.e. the Arabic script is
not connected), and I lose my footnote marker to add insult to injury. How
should I define a footnote stream to run RtL in paragraph form?
Many thanks in advance.
Kind regards,
Talal
p.s. Below is my attempt thus far, with the problem of defining paragraph=yes,
and with the problem of the footnote rule/marker. Reference to what I should
change in this example would be most helpful:
==
%%% SETUP AREA
%% PAGE SETUP
\setuppapersize[A4][A4]
\setuplayout[grid=on]
\showgrid
\setupinterlinespace[line=3.8ex]
\setupindenting[yes,big]
%% FONTS
\usemodule[simplefonts]
\setupsimplefonts[size=12pt]
\definefontfeature[default] [default] [mode=node,script=arabic]
\setmainfontfallback[Lotus Linotype]
[scale=1.33,features=arabic,range={arabic,arabicsupplement}]
%% PARAGRAPH DIRECTION SPACING - ARABIC - ENGLISH
\def\arabpar{\textdir TRT\pardir TRT}
\automigrateinserts % to ensure that certain levels of footnotes show up (raw
MKIV feature)
%% FOOTNOTES
\setupfootnotedefinition[location=serried]
\definenote[afootnote][conversion=set 2]
\setupnote[afootnote][paragraph=yes]
%%% TEXT
\starttext
\input knuth
\startbaselinecorrection\setupinterlinespace[line=5ex]
\arabpar{
هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه
الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه
رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ
الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير
\afootnote{هذه فوتنوت.}
هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة
مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل
النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة
}
\stopbaselinecorrection
Thus, I came to the conclusion that the designer\footnote{Such as Knuth
himself.} of a new system must not only be the implementer and first
large--scale user; the designer should also write the first user manual.
The separation of any of these four components would have hurt TEX
significantly.
\stoptext
==
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Re: [NTG-context] footnotes when using RtL (Arabic)
Thanks Wolfgang. That makes that matter clearer. But how do I get those Arabic
footnotes to be right aligned as well?
May I also ask: what is the purpose, at least in my example that I'm learning
from, of:
\definefontfeature[arabic][default][mode=node,script=arabic] ?
I ask, because when I switched it from [default][default] to [arabic][default]
as you suggested, the Arabic glyphs no longer connected, and the text actually
spilled over into the footnote space. When I commented it out, the glyphs
connected again.
Finally, so that I can start learning on my own without bothering you and
everyone else on the list, where would I have systematically found a discussion
of RtL feaures such as rule=right? Or are there any preexisting example files
of complicated Arabic that I could study and learn from?
Kind regards,
Talal
p.s. Thanks for the \definestartstop environment. As you can see, I'm still
learning the basics of ConTeXt. :-)
On 5 Oct 2010, at 14:28, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Am 05.10.2010 um 14:48 schrieb Talal Al-Azem:
Dear all,
Two quick questions regarding footnotes and Arabic:
1. How do I get a footnote rule/marker to go from right-to-left (i.e. to
begin at the right margin instead of the left margin)?
2. I would like some of my footnote streams to run RtL for Arabic, and also
for those footnotes to be in paragraph form (i.e.
\setupnote[afootnote][paragraph=yes] ). But when I add this command, my
footnote instead runs LtR, the letters get cut up (i.e. the Arabic script is
not connected), and I lose my footnote marker to add insult to injury. How
should I define a footnote stream to run RtL in paragraph form?
Many thanks in advance.
Kind regards,
Talal
p.s. Below is my attempt thus far, with the problem of defining
paragraph=yes, and with the problem of the footnote rule/marker. Reference
to what I should change in this example would be most helpful:
==
%%% SETUP AREA
%% PAGE SETUP
\setuppapersize[A4][A4]
\setuplayout[grid=on]
\showgrid
\setupinterlinespace[line=3.8ex]
\setupindenting[yes,big]
%% FONTS
\usemodule[simplefonts]
\setupsimplefonts[size=12pt]
\definefontfeature[default] [default] [mode=node,script=arabic]
\definefontfeature[arabic][default][mode=node,script=arabic]
\setmainfontfallback[Lotus Linotype]
[scale=1.33,features=arabic,range={arabic,arabicsupplement}]
%% PARAGRAPH DIRECTION SPACING - ARABIC - ENGLISH
\def\arabpar {\textdir TRT\pardir TRT}
\automigrateinserts % to ensure that certain levels of footnotes show up
(raw MKIV feature)
%% FOOTNOTES
\setupfootnotedefinition[location=serried]
\definenote[afootnote][conversion=set 2]
\setupnote[afootnote][paragraph=yes]
\definenote[afootnote][numberconversion=set
2,paragraph=yes,rule=right,align=r2l]
\setupnotedefinition[afootnote][location=serried,display=no]
%%% TEXT
\starttext
\input knuth
\startbaselinecorrection\setupinterlinespace[line=5ex]
\arabpar{
هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه
الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه
رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه
الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير
\afootnote{هذه فوتنوت.}
هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة
مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل
النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة
مانعة
}
\stopbaselinecorrection
\startbaselinecorrection\setupinterlinespace[line=5ex]\arabpar
هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه
الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه
رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ
الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير
\afootnote{هذه فوتنوت.}
هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة
مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل
النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة
مانعة
\stopbaselinecorrection
To make this block simpler you can write your own environment for it:
\definestartstop
[arabic]
[before={\startbaselinecorrection\setupinterlinespace[line=5ex]\arabpar},
after=\stopbaselinecorrection]
\startarabic
هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه
الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه
رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ
الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير
\afootnote{هذه فوتنوت.}
هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة
مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل النحرير هذه رسالة جامعة مانعة ألفه الشيخ الفاضل
النحرير هذه رسالة
Re: [NTG-context] footnotes when using RtL (Arabic)
Wolfgang, thank you once again. One last problem, if I may.
Thanks Wolfgang. That makes that matter clearer. But how do I get those
Arabic footnotes to be right aligned as well?
\definenote[afootnote][numberconversion=set
2,paragraph=yes,rule=right,align={flushright,righttoleft}]
After replacing your rightoleft above with your earlier r2l (the former
didn't work, the latter did), this indeed did cause the footnote block to move
to the right margin. However, the note 1 is still on the far left, note 2 in
the middle, and note 3 on the far right, instead of the other way around (note
1 on far right, note 2 in middle, note 3 on the far left), which is the logical
ordering since we are reading right to left. (See attached pdf example, compare
the order of the footnotes in the paragraph to the order *from right-to-left*
in the footnote area.)
testminimal.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
May I also ask: what is the purpose, at least in my example that I'm
learning from, of:
\definefontfeature[arabic][default][mode=node,script=arabic] ?
I ask, because when I switched it from [default][default] to
[arabic][default] as you suggested, the Arabic glyphs no longer connected,
and the text actually spilled over into the footnote space. When I commented
it out, the glyphs connected again.
With my setting you create a new font feature ”arabic” which inherits the
setting from the ”default” features with the extra settings “mode=node” and
”script=arabic” while your settings extends the ”default” features with these
values. I did this because you use the ”arabic” font feature in the
\definemainfontfallback setup but i forgot that context already has a
“arabic” feature which enables a lot of font options which you need.
So, in light of what you and Khaled have mentioned, I suppose I can remove that
line, and simply use:
\setmainfontfallback[Lotus
Linotype][scale=1.33,features=arabic,range={arabic,arabicpresentationformsa,arabicpresentationformsb,arabicsupplement}]
Finally, so that I can start learning on my own without bothering you and
everyone else on the list, where would I have systematically found a
discussion of RtL feaures such as rule=right?
Maybe in the list archive but often such things are discussed offline, i
found it myself in the source.
Scouring the source is rather intimidating at this stage. I guess that at least
partially justifies my sending questions on here, since I haven't seen r2l
mentioned anywhere else at all. ;-)
Or are there any preexisting example files of complicated Arabic that I
could study and learn from?
I guess the wiki page you already know is currently the only source.
Yes, I'm looking for more real-world, detailed examples, to study and mould my
own document off of. In any case, once I'm more self-confident, maybe I can do
my bit and add some of this info onto the wiki.
Thank you for all of your time and help.
Kind regards,
Talal
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Re: [NTG-context] footnotes when using RtL (Arabic)
Hans, running your example through (what I think is) the latest beta, does not produce any Arabic in the PDF, if that was intended. I've attached the PDF. Kind regards, Talal hansarabic.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document On 5 Oct 2010, at 16:25, Hans Hagen wrote: On 5-10-2010 5:07, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: Finally, so that I can start learning on my own without bothering you and everyone else on the list, where would I have systematically found a discussion of RtL feaures such as rule=right? Maybe in the list archive but often such things are discussed offline, i found it myself in the source. Or are there any preexisting example files of complicated Arabic that I could study and learn from? I guess the wiki page you already know is currently the only source. just a remark in addition to WS: all bidi related code is under construction, that is, we're trying to figure out a decent (useable) model for complex mixed direction documents we implement this stepwise looking at each structure element and decide what is needed, so best is just to notice what needs to be done and discuss it apart from lefttoright/righttoleft we also need to deal with consistent positioning as we need to make manuals in due time we started with verbatim (there will be several bidi models available; maybe Idris can send you the draft on bidi) anyhow, here's some more: in addition to align options we also will have locations reflecting the direction: \definefont[MyMono][file:dejavusansmono sa 1] \setuptyping [style=\MyMono,numbering=line,start=1,step=1] \definetyping [RLtyping] [align=r2l] \definetyping [LRtyping] [align=l2r] \starttext \startbuffer[sample] \startLRtyping At the left! أهلا \stopLRtyping \startRLtyping At the right! أهلا \stopRLtyping \startalignment[l2r] \starttyping At the left! أهلا \stoptyping \stopalignment \startalignment[r2l] \starttyping At the right! أهلا \stoptyping \stopalignment \stopbuffer \typebuffer[sample] \page \startbuffer[settings] \setuplinenumbering[typing][location=left] \stopbuffer \typebuffer[settings] \getbuffer[settings,sample] \page \startbuffer[settings] \setuplinenumbering[typing][location=right] \stopbuffer \typebuffer[settings] \getbuffer[settings,sample] \page \startbuffer[settings] \setuplinenumbering[typing][location=begin] \stopbuffer \typebuffer[settings] \getbuffer[settings,sample] \page \startbuffer[settings] \setuplinenumbering[typing][location=end] \stopbuffer \typebuffer[settings] \getbuffer[settings,sample] \page \stoptext - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] footnotes when using RtL (Arabic)
Hello Hans,I have no clue what you want/need/.Take a look at the files attached. In the text:1. The first afootnote is: * Hickory dickory dock.2. The second afootnote is: † The mouse ran up the clock.3. The third afootnote is: ‡ The clock struck one the mouse fell down.Now, in the apparatus: the order should be the same, but from right to left. So, reading from the right-to-left in the apparatus, it should read:.nwodllef esuom eht eno kcurts kcolc ehT ‡.kcolc eht pu nar esuom ehT †.kcod yrokcid yrokciH ∗Which is the opposite of how it reads now. This is important for critical editions in Arabic (or other RtL languages) in which we are going to be dealing with the lemmas and variants.Does this make it a bit clearer?Kind regards,Talal hans_r2l.tex Description: Binary data hans_r2l.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] placing a paragraph with non-standard interlinear spacing onto the grid
Dear all,
By way of further definition and clarification of the issue: back in the world
of LaTeX, I was kindly given the following code on CTT by Donald Arseneau to
produce the desired effect. Mind you, it was only meant to work with a
paragraph if the entire paragraph was on one page; it wouldn't work if split
across pages:
%%% Donald Arseneau’s Gridblock Environment %%%
% For placing paragraphs into a box, and that box then
% being placed on a “grid” of the baselineskip. This ensures
% that following paragraphs are also on the grid.
\makeatletter
\...@ifundefined{@tempdimc}{\newdim...@tempdimc}{}
\newenvironment{gridblock}{\par
\setb...@tempboxa\vtop\bgroup
}{\par\egroup
% measurements of top
\...@tempdima=\ht\@tempboxa
\...@tempdimc=\dp\@tempboxa
\ifd...@tempdima\ht\strutbox
\advan...@tempdimc\@tempdima
\...@tempdima=\ht\strutbox
\advan...@tempdimc-\@tempdima
\fi
% measurements of bottom
\setb...@tempboxa\vbox{\unvbox\@tempboxa}%
\ifdim\...@tempboxa\dp\strutbox
\...@tempdimb=\dp\strutbox
\else
\...@tempdimb=\dp\@tempboxa
\fi
\advan...@tempdimc-\@tempdimb
\...@tempcnta=\@tempdimc
\divi...@tempcnta\baselineskip
\advan...@tempdimc -...@tempcnta\baselineskip
\ifd...@tempdimc 2\vfuzz \advan...@tempdimc-\baselineskip \fi
\divi...@tempdimc\tw@
\vbox t...@tempdima{}%
\nobreak \nointerlineskip \ker...@tempdima \ker...@tempdimc \nobreak
\b...@tempboxa
\nobreak \nointerlineskip \ker...@tempdimb \ker...@tempdimc \nobreak
\hbox{\vrule height \z@ width \z@ depth \...@tempdimb}%
}
\makeatother
Seeing how systematised ConTeXt is, I'm assuming something much simpler could
probably be used to achieve the same effect?
Kind regards,
Talal
On 3 Oct 2010, at 20:10, Talal Al-Azem wrote:
By way of further definition and clarification of the issue: back in the
world of LaTeX, I was kindly given the following code on CTT by Donald
Arseneau to produce the desired effect. Mind you, it was only meant to work
with a paragraph if the entire paragraph was on one page; it wouldn't work if
split across pages:
%%% Donald Arseneau’s Gridblock Environment %%%
% For placing paragraphs into a box, and that box then
% being placed on a “grid” of the baselineskip. This ensures
% that following paragraphs are also on the grid.
\makeatletter
\...@ifundefined{@tempdimc}{\newdim...@tempdimc}{}
\newenvironment{gridblock}{\par
\setb...@tempboxa\vtop\bgroup
}{\par\egroup
% measurements of top
\...@tempdima=\ht\@tempboxa
\...@tempdimc=\dp\@tempboxa
\ifd...@tempdima\ht\strutbox
\advan...@tempdimc\@tempdima
\...@tempdima=\ht\strutbox
\advan...@tempdimc-\@tempdima
\fi
% measurements of bottom
\setb...@tempboxa\vbox{\unvbox\@tempboxa}%
\ifdim\...@tempboxa\dp\strutbox
\...@tempdimb=\dp\strutbox
\else
\...@tempdimb=\dp\@tempboxa
\fi
\advan...@tempdimc-\@tempdimb
\...@tempcnta=\@tempdimc
\divi...@tempcnta\baselineskip
\advan...@tempdimc -...@tempcnta\baselineskip
\ifd...@tempdimc 2\vfuzz \advan...@tempdimc-\baselineskip \fi
\divi...@tempdimc\tw@
\vbox t...@tempdima{}%
\nobreak \nointerlineskip \ker...@tempdima \ker...@tempdimc \nobreak
\b...@tempboxa
\nobreak \nointerlineskip \ker...@tempdimb \ker...@tempdimc \nobreak
\hbox{\vrule height \z@ width \z@ depth \...@tempdimb}%
}
\makeatother
Seeing how systematised ConTeXt is, I'm assuming something much simpler could
probably be used to achieve the same effect?
Kind regards,
Talal
On 2 Oct 2010, at 23:23, Talal Al-Azem wrote:
Dear all,
This is important for anyone working with mixed language (font) texts. In my
example, the overall document is Latin-based (e.g. English), with a
paragraph of Arabic text; I want this Arabic paragraph as a whole to fit
onto the grid (though obviously the individual Arabic lines of the paragraph
would not).
Currently, when I typeset an English paragraph, followed by an Arabic
paragraph, followed by an English paragraph, the second English paragraph is
no longer on the grid, having been throw off by the Arabic one. I'm looking
for some way to automatically calculate and fill in the vspace needed for
this.
This is not the same as the issue of an Arabic word or phrase (or mathematic
formula) being typeset in the midst of Latin text, as discussed
http://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context@ntg.nl/msg46163.html. Having read a
few other matters on the mailing list (largely involving Idris and Hans),
I'm sure it's possible, but I can't figure it out.
Any help would be most appreciated.
Kind regards,
Talal
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Re: [NTG-context] placing a paragraph with non-standard interlinear spacing onto the grid
Hello Hans and Wolfgang, Hans: Thanks for your reply. No, simply setting up the grid does not work. Because of the size of Arabic fonts relative to latin fonts, the Arabic paragraph naturally needs a bit more interlinear spacing; as such, I do not expect the paragraph to lineup on the grid (effectively, I am happy to treat it like one would a graphic or math equation). But in the English paragraph which follows, I would like the English paragraph to be realigned on the grid. BUT: it seems that Wolfgang's suggestion works well! (At least with my minimal example, which I've attached below). Thank you both so much. Amazing. I cannot express how impressed I am with ConTeXt at the moment, and how what used to require so much hacking in LaTeX (which I never could have come up with), and so many myriad packages, is all largely done from within ConTeXt itself! My last hurdle for shifting my work into ConTeXt remains the issue of the features needed for critical editions--most importantly the ability to key lemmas to line numbers; but that will be left to a dedicated email. Many thanks to you both again, and to all those who've played a role in the development of ConTeXt. :-) Kind regards, Talal testminimal.tex Description: Binary data testminimal.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document On 3 Oct 2010, at 20:50, Hans Hagen wrote: On 3-10-2010 9:14, Talal Al-Azem wrote: Dear all, By way of further definition and clarification of the issue: back in the world of LaTeX, I was kindly given the following code on CTT by Donald Arseneau to produce the desired effect. Mind you, it was only meant to work with a paragraph if the entire paragraph was on one page; it wouldn't work if split across pages: does \setulayout[grid=yes] give acceptable results? - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] present state of critical editions with ConTeXt MKIV ?
Dear all, My apologies for flooding the mailing list as I try to come up to speed quickly with some of the perhaps more arcane usages of ConTeXt over the weekend. I have come to understand that ConTeXt MKIV can indeed produce beautiful critical editions (including those of Arabic texts). I've spent some time scouring the mailing list and wiki with things related to critical editions and Arabic (from the early 2000's until now), including the developing CitTeXt project. However, I have some questions. From my (nascent) experiences and readings regarding critically editing texts, the following appear to be necessary tasks for any typesetting software used to produce critical texts [1] (I have placed an + next to those features which seem to already be implemented in MKIV, and a '?' next to those which I am unsure) : 1. Marginal line numbers + 2. Keying lemmas to linenumbers ? Footnote streams where the lemmas are referenced in connection with the line numbers (and thus not by puting a footnote reference number in the body of the text after the variant). I.e., functionality similar to ednotes or Ledmac in LaTeX. From what I've read, it seems this might remain the most problematic matter currently. 3. Formatting the lemma footnote streams in paragraph/block form OR in columnar form ? This mailing list provided direction to using \setupnote[footnote][n=x], where if x=0 makes the footnotes into a single paragraph, and if x=2 or more than 2 or more columns appear. I am unclear, due to my relative inexperience with ConTeXt, whether this is deemed robust enough as part of the solution of keying lemmas to linenumbers (#2 above). 4. Lemma abbreviations ? When the lemma is rather long, it should be displayed partially only preceding the note at the bottom of the page 5. Nested or overlapping lemmas ? 6. Cross references to lines ? 7. Line number switches+ I.e. being able to turn line numbering on and off, restart, etc. 8. Multiple footnote streams + 9. Parallel typesetting? I.e. It seems this was last recently discussed on this list in August 2010, and I assume it is naturally still in development, as these matters surely take time. Thus, the main issues seemingly remaining are related to lemmas. Issues number 2 to 5 are my main concern at the moment. Any advice on currently effecting these and other matters with a '?' after them (or being told that it is currently impossible) would be most appreciated. Alternatively, it would be nice just to know where things stand. Kind regards, Talal Al-Azem Oxford [1] Further discussion of these (and further) tasks can be quickly surveyed in Uwe Lück, ednotes — critical edition typesetting with LATEX (ednotugb.pdf, 2005) -- which discusses in section 2.1 the task(s) of digitally-produced critical editions. ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] placing a paragraph with non-standard interlinear spacing onto the grid
Dear Hans and Wolfgang (et al), Unfortunately, I think I may have spoken too soon, as I've run into a small problem. :-) Using Wolfgang's suggestion of baselinecorrection: \startbaselinecorrection\setupinterlinespace[line=5ex] ... \stopbaselinecorrection I can no longer get footnotes which are in the Arabic paragraph to work. The footnote marker in the text shows up; but that particular footnote does not show at the bottom of the page, though a footnote from text outside of that paragraph do show, with their correct numbering. See attachments for an example. Kind regards, Talal testminimal.tex Description: Binary data testminimal.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document On 3 Oct 2010, at 22:47, Talal Al-Azem wrote: Hello Hans and Wolfgang, Hans: Thanks for your reply. No, simply setting up the grid does not work. Because of the size of Arabic fonts relative to latin fonts, the Arabic paragraph naturally needs a bit more interlinear spacing; as such, I do not expect the paragraph to lineup on the grid (effectively, I am happy to treat it like one would a graphic or math equation). But in the English paragraph which follows, I would like the English paragraph to be realigned on the grid. BUT: it seems that Wolfgang's suggestion works well! (At least with my minimal example, which I've attached below). Thank you both so much. Amazing. I cannot express how impressed I am with ConTeXt at the moment, and how what used to require so much hacking in LaTeX (which I never could have come up with), and so many myriad packages, is all largely done from within ConTeXt itself! My last hurdle for shifting my work into ConTeXt remains the issue of the features needed for critical editions--most importantly the ability to key lemmas to line numbers; but that will be left to a dedicated email. Many thanks to you both again, and to all those who've played a role in the development of ConTeXt. :-) Kind regards, Talal testminimal.textestminimal.pdf On 3 Oct 2010, at 20:50, Hans Hagen wrote: On 3-10-2010 9:14, Talal Al-Azem wrote: Dear all, By way of further definition and clarification of the issue: back in the world of LaTeX, I was kindly given the following code on CTT by Donald Arseneau to produce the desired effect. Mind you, it was only meant to work with a paragraph if the entire paragraph was on one page; it wouldn't work if split across pages: does \setulayout[grid=yes] give acceptable results? - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] placing a paragraph with non-standard interlinear spacing onto the grid
Unfortunately, I think I may have spoken too soon, as I've run into a small problem. :-) Using Wolfgang's suggestion of baselinecorrection: \startbaselinecorrection\setupinterlinespace[line=5ex] \stopbaselinecorrection I can no longer get footnotes which are in the Arabic paragraph to work. The footnote marker in the text shows up; but that particular footnote does not show at the bottom of the page, though a footnote from text outside of that paragraph do show, with their correct numbering. See attachments for an example. does \automigrateinserts help? It does indeed. Many thanks, Hans, for your quick responses and help! Kind regards, Talal (concerning the grid ... at some point we can associate lineht/dp with a font ... it's rather trivial to influence) ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] present state of critical editions with ConTeXt MKIV ?
Dear Hans, Thank you once again for your response. I have attached a sample file showing examples of each of the matters discussed below which you requested. It was produced using LaTeX and Uwe Lück's excellent ednotes package. Of course, I couldn't produce an example of parallel texts, because to the best of my knowledge there is no robust system for that anywhere (my definition of 'robust' means it can handle RtL languages, like Arabic, as easily as ConTeXt does). Many thanks, Talal criticaleditions.tex Description: Binary data criticaleditions.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document On 4 Oct 2010, at 01:15, Hans Hagen wrote: On 4-10-2010 12:14, Talal Al-Azem wrote: From my (nascent) experiences and readings regarding critically editing texts, the following appear to be necessary tasks for any typesetting software used to produce critical texts [1] (I have placed an + next to those features which seem to already be implemented in MKIV, and a '?' next to those which I am unsure) : 2. Keying lemmas to linenumbers ? Footnote streams where the lemmas are referenced in connection with the line numbers (and thus not by puting a footnote reference number in the body of the text after the variant). I.e., functionality similar to ednotes or Ledmac in LaTeX. From what I've read, it seems this might remain the most problematic matter currently. probably possible (example needed) 3. Formatting the lemma footnote streams in paragraph/block form OR in columnar form ? This mailing list provided direction to using \setupnote[footnote][n=x], where if x=0 makes the footnotes into a single paragraph, and if x=2 or more than 2 or more columns appear. I am unclear, due to my relative inexperience with ConTeXt, whether this is deemed robust enough as part of the solution of keying lemmas to linenumbers (#2 above). footnotes can be formatted in different ways (there are some examples in the test suite) 4. Lemma abbreviations ? When the lemma is rather long, it should be displayed partially only preceding the note at the bottom of the page should not be too complex, example needed 5. Nested or overlapping lemmas ? example needed 6. Cross references to lines ? possible 7. Line number switches+ I.e. being able to turn line numbering on and off, restart, etc. 8. Multiple footnote streams + 9. Parallel typesetting ? I.e. It seems this was last recently discussed on this list in August 2010, and I assume it is naturally still in development, as these matters surely take time. Thus, the main issues seemingly remaining are related to lemmas. Issues number 2 to 5 are my main concern at the moment. Any advice on currently effecting these and other matters with a '?' after them (or being told that it is currently impossible) would be most appreciated. Alternatively, it would be nice just to know where things stand. some things are not that hard to implmenent, but examples (and time) is needed - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] mixed English and Arabic using Simplefonts?
Dear Wolfgang and Khaled,
Thank you both for your replies. This has been very helpful. May I ask one
further newbie question of simplefonts: how do I change the font for just the
fallback font, without affecting the mainfont? Is there a way to do this by
setting the size in points, or in scale (percentage), or some other fashion?
In fontspec, i was accustomed to something like:
\newfontfamily{\arfont}[Script=Arabic,Scale=1.66,WordSpace=1.66]{Scheherazade-Regular}
I am sure there are equivalents for these feature (size, scale, wordspace);
I've seen many features in the simplefonts pdf. But i'm unsure how to define
something like arfont using simplefonts.
Many thanks,
Talal
\usemodule[simplefonts]
%\setmainfont[Antykwa Poltawskiego]
\setmainfontfallback[Scheherazade][range={arabic,arabicpresentationformsa,arabicpresentationformsb,arabicsupplement}]
\starttext
\input knuth
\textdir TRT ???!
\stoptext
Wolfgang
--
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 11:25:12 +0200
From: Khaled Hosny khaledho...@eglug.org
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users ntg-context@ntg.nl
Subject: Re: [NTG-context] mixed English and Arabic using Simplefonts?
Message-ID: 20101002092512.ga1...@khaled-laptop
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
On Sat, Oct 02, 2010 at 06:32:05AM +0200, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Am 02.10.2010 um 02:16 schrieb Talal Al-Azem:
My apologies if I'm dumbing down the level of discussion here. But I'm
trying to get my head around fonts and bidirectionality using ConTeXt MkIV
(as a rather unsophisticated user, not as a developer).
To begin with, since it's all bit much at once, I'm trying to use
simplefonts. I am unclear how to establish English as my language and its
font as my main font (using the default font), and Arabic as a secondary
language (using Scheherazade).
What would I change in the ara-sty environment found on
wiki.contextgarden.net/Arabic_and_Hebrew? Or, if I don't need to use this,
should I define my own macro in my tex document for directionality?
I'm probably making a mess of some basic things here, but could use some
help. I have working familiarity with Fontspec over on the XeLaTeX side of
things, but the sparse documentation of simplefonts is leading to my
uncertainty as how to proceed.
\usemodule[simplefonts]
%\setmainfont[Antykwa Poltawskiego]
\setmainfontfallback[Scheherazade][range={arabic,arabicpresentationformsa,arabicpresentationformsb,arabicsupplement}]
I think there is no need for presentation forms, they are deprecated
symbols not used for entering text.
--
Khaled Hosny
Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team
Free font developer
--
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End of ntg-context Digest, Vol 76, Issue 8
**
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[NTG-context] placing a paragraph with non-standard interlinear spacing onto the grid
Dear all, This is important for anyone working with mixed language (font) texts. In my example, the overall document is Latin-based (e.g. English), with a paragraph of Arabic text; I want this Arabic paragraph as a whole to fit onto the grid (though obviously the individual Arabic lines of the paragraph would not). Currently, when I typeset an English paragraph, followed by an Arabic paragraph, followed by an English paragraph, the second English paragraph is no longer on the grid, having been throw off by the Arabic one. I'm looking for some way to automatically calculate and fill in the vspace needed for this. This is not the same as the issue of an Arabic word or phrase (or mathematic formula) being typeset in the midst of Latin text, as discussed http://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context@ntg.nl/msg46163.html. Having read a few other matters on the mailing list (largely involving Idris and Hans), I'm sure it's possible, but I can't figure it out. Any help would be most appreciated. Kind regards, Talal___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] mixed English and Arabic using Simplefonts?
My apologies if I'm dumbing down the level of discussion here. But I'm trying to get my head around fonts and bidirectionality using ConTeXt MkIV (as a rather unsophisticated user, not as a developer). To begin with, since it's all bit much at once, I'm trying to use simplefonts. I am unclear how to establish English as my language and its font as my main font (using the default font), and Arabic as a secondary language (using Scheherazade). What would I change in the ara-sty environment found on wiki.contextgarden.net/Arabic_and_Hebrew? Or, if I don't need to use this, should I define my own macro in my tex document for directionality? I'm probably making a mess of some basic things here, but could use some help. I have working familiarity with Fontspec over on the XeLaTeX side of things, but the sparse documentation of simplefonts is leading to my uncertainty as how to proceed. Many thanks in advance. Kind regards, Talal ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
