Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Hans Hagen]

On 6/8/2017 4:29 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jun 2017, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:


And indeed, in luatex 1.05 the primes look fine again. The prime in
the fraction is too low, but I take Hans' "Such is life" and use \over
for the rare cases where I have primes inside fractions.


I haven't followed the thread carefully, but there is nothing special in 
\frac. The likely cause is prime is misplaced in cramped style or 
similar and similar misplacement will happen whenever that style is used.


I would be weary of using {... \over ...}. At the very least, use
\Ustack{... \over ...}, else any code that uses \mathstyle (instead of 
\mathchoice) will fail.


For an explaination, see Taco's answer here:
https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/1261/323
indeed, the problem is that \over (and friends) are the only tricky 
parsing bits (ahead/back) and as a consequence have tricky style related 
issues (which also means often extra {} is needed as in


{ { foo } \over { bar } }

in order not to let style changes in foo and bar interfere ... only 
meant for low level parsing and expansion lovers


Hans

-
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Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2017, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:


And indeed, in luatex 1.05 the primes look fine again. The prime in
the fraction is too low, but I take Hans' "Such is life" and use \over
for the rare cases where I have primes inside fractions.


I haven't followed the thread carefully, but there is nothing special in 
\frac. The likely cause is prime is misplaced in cramped style or similar 
and similar misplacement will happen whenever that style is used.


I would be weary of using {... \over ...}. At the very least, use
\Ustack{... \over ...}, else any code that uses \mathstyle (instead of 
\mathchoice) will fail.


For an explaination, see Taco's answer here:
https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/1261/323

Aditya


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Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 10:42 AM, luigi scarso  wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
>> I get the same error with revision 6349 from
>> https://serveur-svn.lri.fr/svn/modhel/luatex/branches/experimental/ ,
>> see below. But maybe we are OT on this list now, and should either go
>> to luatex list or private?
> not OT,
> I am checking.
>
>
>
>
> --
> luigi
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With some hands on help from Taco and luigi the compilation worked (I
had not installed icu-config, freetype-config, makeinfo, which might
help someone else).

And indeed, in luatex 1.05 the primes look fine again. The prime in
the fraction is too low, but I take Hans' "Such is life" and use \over
for the rare cases where I have primes inside fractions.

Thanks to all!

/Mikael
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Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[luigi scarso]

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
> I get the same error with revision 6349 from
> https://serveur-svn.lri.fr/svn/modhel/luatex/branches/experimental/ ,
> see below. But maybe we are OT on this list now, and should either go
> to luatex list or private?
not OT,
I am checking.




-- 
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 10:28 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, luigi scarso  wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
>>> PS: the ./build.sh (Checked out revision 6287) runs for a while, and
>>> then stops with an error like this (it is probably my fault):
>>>
>>> Makefile:368: recipe for target
>>> '../../../../source/texk/kpathsea/doc/kpathsea.info' failed
>>> make[2]: *** [../../../../source/texk/kpathsea/doc/kpathsea.info] Error 127
>>
>> weird, the file is there.
>> Just to be sure,  which repo are you using ?
>>
>>
>> --
>> luigi
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>
> I ran
>
> svn checkout --username anonsvn --password anonsvn
> https://foundry.supelec.fr/svn/luatex/branches/experimental/
>
> I will try to wipe and redo. Maybe something went wrong.
>
> /Mikael

I get the same error with revision 6349 from
https://serveur-svn.lri.fr/svn/modhel/luatex/branches/experimental/ ,
see below. But maybe we are OT on this list now, and should either go
to luatex list or private?

/Mikael


Makefile:369: recipe for target
'../../../../source/texk/kpathsea/doc/kpathsea.info' failed
make[2]: *** [../../../../source/texk/kpathsea/doc/kpathsea.info] Error 127
make[2]: Leaving directory
'/opt/luatex-experimental/experimental/build/texk/kpathsea/doc'
Makefile:1634: recipe for target 'all-recursive' failed
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory
'/opt/luatex-experimental/experimental/build/texk/kpathsea'
Makefile:816: recipe for target 'all' failed
make: *** [all] Error 2
./build.sh: line 294: cd: texk/web2c: No such file or directory
make: *** No rule to make target 'luatex'.  Stop.
strip: 'build/texk/web2c/luatex': No such file
ls: cannot access 'build/texk/web2c/luatex': No such file or directory
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Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, luigi scarso  wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
>> PS: the ./build.sh (Checked out revision 6287) runs for a while, and
>> then stops with an error like this (it is probably my fault):
>>
>> Makefile:368: recipe for target
>> '../../../../source/texk/kpathsea/doc/kpathsea.info' failed
>> make[2]: *** [../../../../source/texk/kpathsea/doc/kpathsea.info] Error 127
>
> weird, the file is there.
> Just to be sure,  which repo are you using ?
>
>
> --
> luigi
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I ran

svn checkout --username anonsvn --password anonsvn
https://foundry.supelec.fr/svn/luatex/branches/experimental/

I will try to wipe and redo. Maybe something went wrong.

/Mikael
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Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[luigi scarso]

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
> PS: the ./build.sh (Checked out revision 6287) runs for a while, and
> then stops with an error like this (it is probably my fault):
>
> Makefile:368: recipe for target
> '../../../../source/texk/kpathsea/doc/kpathsea.info' failed
> make[2]: *** [../../../../source/texk/kpathsea/doc/kpathsea.info] Error 127

weird, the file is there.
Just to be sure,  which repo are you using ?


-- 
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> On 6/7/2017 9:57 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
>
>> In 2017.06.06 13:22 something is still not correct.
>
> i mentioned that you need a new engine (the garden has 1.0.5 binafies for
> windows but other platforms need to be generated)
>
>
> Hans
>
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
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> ___

Ah, sorry, I did not read your mail carefully enough. I tried to
compile 1.05 experimental from the svn, but I got some error, so I
will probably wait for the 1.05 release (or hope a bit for the
intermediate garden release, then).

/Mikael

PS: the ./build.sh (Checked out revision 6287) runs for a while, and
then stops with an error like this (it is probably my fault):

Makefile:368: recipe for target
'../../../../source/texk/kpathsea/doc/kpathsea.info' failed
make[2]: *** [../../../../source/texk/kpathsea/doc/kpathsea.info] Error 127
make[2]: Leaving directory
'/opt/luatex-experimental/experimental/build/texk/kpathsea/doc'
Makefile:1653: recipe for target 'all-recursive' failed
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory
'/opt/luatex-experimental/experimental/build/texk/kpathsea'
Makefile:814: recipe for target 'all' failed
make: *** [all] Error 2
./build.sh: line 291: cd: texk/web2c: No such file or directory
make: *** No rule to make target 'luatex'.  Stop.
strip: 'build/texk/web2c/luatex': No such file
ls: cannot access 'build/texk/web2c/luatex': No such file or directory
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Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Hans Hagen]

On 6/7/2017 9:57 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:


In 2017.06.06 13:22 something is still not correct.
i mentioned that you need a new engine (the garden has 1.0.5 binafies 
for windows but other platforms need to be generated)


Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 9:57 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 11:00 PM, Hans Hagen  wrote:
>> On 6/4/2017 11:06 PM, Otared Kavian wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Mikael,
>>>
>>> Indeed your observation is correct, but using \over instead of \frac
>>> yields the correct behavior. Please try the following sample:
>>>
>>> %%% begin derivatives-prime-4.tex
>>> \setupbodyfont[lucidaot]
>>>
>>> \starttext
>>>
>>> Compare the position of the prime sign in $f'/g$ in these two expressions:
>>> the first one using \type{{... \over ...}}
>>> \startformula
>>> \left({f \over g}\right)' = {f' \over g} - {f \over g^2}g'
>>> \stopformula
>>> (which yields a correct position of the prime for $f'$ in $f'/g$), and the
>>> second using \type{\frac{...}{...}}
>>> \startformula
>>> \left(\frac{f}{g} \right)' = \frac{f'}{g} - \frac{f}{g^2} g'
>>> \stopformula
>>> which yields a prime sign for $f'$ a little bit lower.
>>>
>>> \stoptext
>>> %%% end derivatives-prime-4.tex
>>
>> The problem with primes is that it's a real mess, conceptually as well as in
>> fonts.
>>
>> - we need to deal with not only one prime but also with double, tripple and
>> quadruple ones and they need to become proper unicode symbols too
>>
>> - fonts have one, two or three sizes, often inconsistent and with funny
>> dimensions, onlyt the text size can be trusted
>>
>> - we cannot use prime as nuclues as it can be combined with a subscript
>>
>> - but it isn't designed as a script symbol and is already raised (somewhat)
>>
>> - so we have to deal with a good old tex / fonts / plain inheritance,
>> unicode but also want to avoid active character and parsing mess etc.
>>
>> I tried several approaches and it's hard to come up with a general solution
>> that suits all fonts.
>>
>> Now, the bad is that when we use a superscript with a smashed virtual
>> characters we end up in script choice mess with primes being one step too
>> small.
>>
>> So, I decided to follow a different route and extend luatex with a sizeless
>> super/subscript feature so that we can handle such weird cases (there might
>> be more).
>>
>> This also means that the primes get larger. I only use the text size prime
>> and scale that down for the other sizes i.e. no stty for primes as they are
>> such a mess) but we can live with that.
>>
>> The good news is that it gets better but the bad news is that you have to
>> wait till we release luatex 1.0.5 (planned for the ctx meeting but we might
>> do an intermediate garden release anyway).
>>
>> btw, with \frac you get cramped styles and these have different positioning.
>> Such is life.
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> -
>>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
>> -
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>> the Wiki!
>>
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>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>> ___
>
> Again, thanks.
>
> In 2017.06.06 13:22 something is still not correct.
>
> The input file
>
> \startTEXpage[offset=3pt]
> $f'(x)\hat{f}'(x)$
> \stopTEXpage
>
> gives the attached output. The prime of f'(x) looks wrong, the one of
> \hat{f}'(x) looks correct.
>
> /Mikael

I was too quick. The example

\setupbodyfont[lucidaot,10pt]
\setupmathematics[stylealternative={calligraphic}]% to get the normal
math lower case italic

\startTEXpage[offset=3pt]
$f'(x)\hat{f}'(x)$
\stopTEXpage

gives bad result in both cases. The first one with wrong size and
wrong vertical placement, the second one only with wrong vertical
placement (that was not obvious to me for latin modern).

/Mikael


ctx-listexample31.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 11:00 PM, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> On 6/4/2017 11:06 PM, Otared Kavian wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mikael,
>>
>> Indeed your observation is correct, but using \over instead of \frac
>> yields the correct behavior. Please try the following sample:
>>
>> %%% begin derivatives-prime-4.tex
>> \setupbodyfont[lucidaot]
>>
>> \starttext
>>
>> Compare the position of the prime sign in $f'/g$ in these two expressions:
>> the first one using \type{{... \over ...}}
>> \startformula
>> \left({f \over g}\right)' = {f' \over g} - {f \over g^2}g'
>> \stopformula
>> (which yields a correct position of the prime for $f'$ in $f'/g$), and the
>> second using \type{\frac{...}{...}}
>> \startformula
>> \left(\frac{f}{g} \right)' = \frac{f'}{g} - \frac{f}{g^2} g'
>> \stopformula
>> which yields a prime sign for $f'$ a little bit lower.
>>
>> \stoptext
>> %%% end derivatives-prime-4.tex
>
> The problem with primes is that it's a real mess, conceptually as well as in
> fonts.
>
> - we need to deal with not only one prime but also with double, tripple and
> quadruple ones and they need to become proper unicode symbols too
>
> - fonts have one, two or three sizes, often inconsistent and with funny
> dimensions, onlyt the text size can be trusted
>
> - we cannot use prime as nuclues as it can be combined with a subscript
>
> - but it isn't designed as a script symbol and is already raised (somewhat)
>
> - so we have to deal with a good old tex / fonts / plain inheritance,
> unicode but also want to avoid active character and parsing mess etc.
>
> I tried several approaches and it's hard to come up with a general solution
> that suits all fonts.
>
> Now, the bad is that when we use a superscript with a smashed virtual
> characters we end up in script choice mess with primes being one step too
> small.
>
> So, I decided to follow a different route and extend luatex with a sizeless
> super/subscript feature so that we can handle such weird cases (there might
> be more).
>
> This also means that the primes get larger. I only use the text size prime
> and scale that down for the other sizes i.e. no stty for primes as they are
> such a mess) but we can live with that.
>
> The good news is that it gets better but the bad news is that you have to
> wait till we release luatex 1.0.5 (planned for the ctx meeting but we might
> do an intermediate garden release anyway).
>
> btw, with \frac you get cramped styles and these have different positioning.
> Such is life.
>
> Hans
>
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
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> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___

Again, thanks.

In 2017.06.06 13:22 something is still not correct.

The input file

\startTEXpage[offset=3pt]
$f'(x)\hat{f}'(x)$
\stopTEXpage

gives the attached output. The prime of f'(x) looks wrong, the one of
\hat{f}'(x) looks correct.

/Mikael


ctx-listexample31.pdf
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Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Hans Hagen]

On 6/4/2017 11:06 PM, Otared Kavian wrote:

Hi Mikael,

Indeed your observation is correct, but using \over instead of \frac yields the 
correct behavior. Please try the following sample:

%%% begin derivatives-prime-4.tex
\setupbodyfont[lucidaot]

\starttext

Compare the position of the prime sign in $f'/g$ in these two expressions: the 
first one using \type{{... \over ...}}
\startformula
\left({f \over g}\right)' = {f' \over g} - {f \over g^2}g'
\stopformula
(which yields a correct position of the prime for $f'$ in $f'/g$), and the 
second using \type{\frac{...}{...}}
\startformula
\left(\frac{f}{g} \right)' = \frac{f'}{g} - \frac{f}{g^2} g'
\stopformula
which yields a prime sign for $f'$ a little bit lower.

\stoptext
%%% end derivatives-prime-4.tex
The problem with primes is that it's a real mess, conceptually as well 
as in fonts.


- we need to deal with not only one prime but also with double, tripple 
and quadruple ones and they need to become proper unicode symbols too


- fonts have one, two or three sizes, often inconsistent and with funny 
dimensions, onlyt the text size can be trusted


- we cannot use prime as nuclues as it can be combined with a subscript

- but it isn't designed as a script symbol and is already raised (somewhat)

- so we have to deal with a good old tex / fonts / plain inheritance, 
unicode but also want to avoid active character and parsing mess etc.


I tried several approaches and it's hard to come up with a general 
solution that suits all fonts.


Now, the bad is that when we use a superscript with a smashed virtual 
characters we end up in script choice mess with primes being one step 
too small.


So, I decided to follow a different route and extend luatex with a 
sizeless super/subscript feature so that we can handle such weird cases 
(there might be more).


This also means that the primes get larger. I only use the text size 
prime and scale that down for the other sizes i.e. no stty for primes as 
they are such a mess) but we can live with that.


The good news is that it gets better but the bad news is that you have 
to wait till we release luatex 1.0.5 (planned for the ctx meeting but we 
might do an intermediate garden release anyway).


btw, with \frac you get cramped styles and these have different 
positioning. Such is life.


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Mikael,

Indeed your observation is correct, but using \over instead of \frac yields the 
correct behavior. Please try the following sample:

%%% begin derivatives-prime-4.tex
\setupbodyfont[lucidaot]

\starttext

Compare the position of the prime sign in $f'/g$ in these two expressions: the 
first one using \type{{... \over ...}}
\startformula
\left({f \over g}\right)' = {f' \over g} - {f \over g^2}g'
\stopformula
(which yields a correct position of the prime for $f'$ in $f'/g$), and the 
second using \type{\frac{...}{...}}
\startformula
\left(\frac{f}{g} \right)' = \frac{f'}{g} - \frac{f}{g^2} g'
\stopformula
which yields a prime sign for $f'$ a little bit lower.

\stoptext
%%% end derivatives-prime-4.tex




derivatives-prime-4.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document



> On 4 Jun 2017, at 19:42, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:

> […]
> 
> I hate to bring this up again, but look at the attached output of
> 
> %%%
> %\setupbodyfont[lucidaot]
> 
> \starttext
> \startformula
> f'(0)=2\frac{f'(0)}{2}
> \stopformula
> \stoptext
> %%%
> 
> The prime in the fraction is in my opinion too low (it is more clear
> in the example with lucida).
> 
> /Mikael
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___

___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 8:05 PM, Mathias Schickel
 wrote:
>
>> Am 25.05.2017 um 18:59 schrieb Mikael P. Sundqvist :
>>
>> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  
>> wrote:
>>> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Mathias Schickel
>>>  wrote:
 Hi Mikael and Otared,

 I can confirm issues regarding primes, too. If you are using the STIX 2
 fonts (http://www.stixfonts.org) and my example below you get a somewhat
 strange behaviour of primes that is pretty obvious. I think the issues
 should be fixed.

 By the way the issue seems to depend to some extend on the fonts. Using
 Lucida by \setupbodyfont[lucidaot] it is not that obvious but still 
 present.
 Using Latin Modern it seems that the spacing between the primes changes
 between f'' and f^{''}. Cambria seems to show that behaviour (like Latin
 Modern), too, but less obvious.

 Best regards
 Mathias

 %% example
 \unprotect

 \definefontfeature
 [stixtwo-math-feature]
 [kern=yes,
 ss01=no,% calligraphic letters
 ss02=yes, % lowercase italic variants (e.g. open g)
 ss03=no, % hbar und lambdabar variants
 ss04=yes, % larger and lower primes, minute etc.
 ss05=no, % shorter arrows
 ss06=no, % narrower and shorter element and similar symbols
 ss07=no, % some smaller operators and emptyset variant
 ss08=yes, % upright integrals etc.
 ss09=no, % variant negated symbols
 ss10=yes, % variants of greater and lesser and similar symbols
 ss11=yes, % variant of negated set (inclusion etc.) symbols
 ss14=yes, %
 ss16=yes] % variants of circled operators

 \starttypescriptcollection[Stix2]
 \starttypescript [\s!serif] [Stix2] [\s!all]
 \definefontsynonym
[Stix2Regular]
[file:STIX2Text-Regular.otf]
\definefontsynonym
[Stix2Bold]
[file:STIX2Text-Bold.otf]
\definefontsynonym
[Stix2Italic]
[file:STIX2Text-Italic.otf]
\definefontsynonym
[Stix2BoldItalic]
[file:STIX2Text-BoldItalic.otf]
\definefontsynonym[\s!Serif] [Stix2Regular] [\s!features=\s!default]
\definefontsynonym[\s!SerifBold] [Stix2Bold]
 [\s!features=\s!default]
\definefontsynonym[\s!SerifItalic] [Stix2Italic]
 [\s!features=\s!default]
\definefontsynonym[\s!SerifBoldItalic] [Stix2BoldItalic]
 [\s!features=\s!default]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [\s!math] [Stix2]
\definefontsynonym
[Stix2Math]
[file:STIX2Math.otf]
[features=math\mathsizesuffix]
\definefontsynonym [\s!MathRoman] [Stix2Math]
 [\s!features={\s!math\mathsizesuffix,mathextra,stixtwo-math-feature},\s!designsize=\s!auto]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [Stix2]
\definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!rm] [\s!serif] [Stix2]
 [\s!default]
\definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!mm] [\s!math] [Stix2]
 [\s!default]
\stoptypescript

 \stoptypescriptcollection

 \protect

 \setupbodyfont[Stix2]

 \starttext
 %
 Compare $f'$ to $(f')$ and to $f''$, $(f'')$, $f^{''}$ and $(f^{''})$.
 %
 \stoptext
 %% end of example



 Am 22.05.2017 um 09:50 schrieb Otared Kavian :

 Hi Mikael,

 You are correct, the position of \prime depends on whether there is a next
 character or not after it, and it seems that this has an effect on its
 position for characters having a subscript as in
 $f_{1}''(x) \neq f''_{1}(x)$
 $f'f''f'’'$
 Best regards: OK

 On 22 May 2017, at 08:51, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:

 On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Otared Kavian  wrote:

 Hi Mikael,

 I agree with what you are reporting: the current behavior of the \prime
 operator is not completely satisfying when using ConTeXt mkiv, while in 
 mkii
 it is the most satisfying (in my opinion…).

 The turn around consisting in using $f^{‘’}$ or  $f^{\prime\prime}$, or 
 even
 $f^{{}^{\prime\prime}}$, is not really satisfying either.

 But I think (or I hope that) at some point Hans will fix it in mkiv.

 Best regards: OK

 On 21 May 2017, at 08:14, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
 […]

 And just for reference, the document below gives the attached pdf,
 compiled with lualatex. I think the location of the primes there look
 better. Sorry for spamming about this issue, but I think it is
 important for all people writing math with ConTeXt.

 /Mikael

 \RequirePackage{luatex85}
 

Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mathias Schickel]

> Am 25.05.2017 um 18:59 schrieb Mikael P. Sundqvist :
> 
> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
>> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Mathias Schickel
>>  wrote:
>>> Hi Mikael and Otared,
>>> 
>>> I can confirm issues regarding primes, too. If you are using the STIX 2
>>> fonts (http://www.stixfonts.org) and my example below you get a somewhat
>>> strange behaviour of primes that is pretty obvious. I think the issues
>>> should be fixed.
>>> 
>>> By the way the issue seems to depend to some extend on the fonts. Using
>>> Lucida by \setupbodyfont[lucidaot] it is not that obvious but still present.
>>> Using Latin Modern it seems that the spacing between the primes changes
>>> between f'' and f^{''}. Cambria seems to show that behaviour (like Latin
>>> Modern), too, but less obvious.
>>> 
>>> Best regards
>>> Mathias
>>> 
>>> %% example
>>> \unprotect
>>> 
>>> \definefontfeature
>>> [stixtwo-math-feature]
>>> [kern=yes,
>>> ss01=no,% calligraphic letters
>>> ss02=yes, % lowercase italic variants (e.g. open g)
>>> ss03=no, % hbar und lambdabar variants
>>> ss04=yes, % larger and lower primes, minute etc.
>>> ss05=no, % shorter arrows
>>> ss06=no, % narrower and shorter element and similar symbols
>>> ss07=no, % some smaller operators and emptyset variant
>>> ss08=yes, % upright integrals etc.
>>> ss09=no, % variant negated symbols
>>> ss10=yes, % variants of greater and lesser and similar symbols
>>> ss11=yes, % variant of negated set (inclusion etc.) symbols
>>> ss14=yes, %
>>> ss16=yes] % variants of circled operators
>>> 
>>> \starttypescriptcollection[Stix2]
>>> \starttypescript [\s!serif] [Stix2] [\s!all]
>>> \definefontsynonym
>>>[Stix2Regular]
>>>[file:STIX2Text-Regular.otf]
>>>\definefontsynonym
>>>[Stix2Bold]
>>>[file:STIX2Text-Bold.otf]
>>>\definefontsynonym
>>>[Stix2Italic]
>>>[file:STIX2Text-Italic.otf]
>>>\definefontsynonym
>>>[Stix2BoldItalic]
>>>[file:STIX2Text-BoldItalic.otf]
>>>\definefontsynonym[\s!Serif] [Stix2Regular] [\s!features=\s!default]
>>>\definefontsynonym[\s!SerifBold] [Stix2Bold]
>>> [\s!features=\s!default]
>>>\definefontsynonym[\s!SerifItalic] [Stix2Italic]
>>> [\s!features=\s!default]
>>>\definefontsynonym[\s!SerifBoldItalic] [Stix2BoldItalic]
>>> [\s!features=\s!default]
>>>\stoptypescript
>>> 
>>>\starttypescript [\s!math] [Stix2]
>>>\definefontsynonym
>>>[Stix2Math]
>>>[file:STIX2Math.otf]
>>>[features=math\mathsizesuffix]
>>>\definefontsynonym [\s!MathRoman] [Stix2Math]
>>> [\s!features={\s!math\mathsizesuffix,mathextra,stixtwo-math-feature},\s!designsize=\s!auto]
>>>\stoptypescript
>>> 
>>>\starttypescript [Stix2]
>>>\definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!rm] [\s!serif] [Stix2]
>>> [\s!default]
>>>\definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!mm] [\s!math] [Stix2]
>>> [\s!default]
>>>\stoptypescript
>>> 
>>> \stoptypescriptcollection
>>> 
>>> \protect
>>> 
>>> \setupbodyfont[Stix2]
>>> 
>>> \starttext
>>> %
>>> Compare $f'$ to $(f')$ and to $f''$, $(f'')$, $f^{''}$ and $(f^{''})$.
>>> %
>>> \stoptext
>>> %% end of example
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Am 22.05.2017 um 09:50 schrieb Otared Kavian :
>>> 
>>> Hi Mikael,
>>> 
>>> You are correct, the position of \prime depends on whether there is a next
>>> character or not after it, and it seems that this has an effect on its
>>> position for characters having a subscript as in
>>> $f_{1}''(x) \neq f''_{1}(x)$
>>> $f'f''f'’'$
>>> Best regards: OK
>>> 
>>> On 22 May 2017, at 08:51, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Otared Kavian  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Mikael,
>>> 
>>> I agree with what you are reporting: the current behavior of the \prime
>>> operator is not completely satisfying when using ConTeXt mkiv, while in mkii
>>> it is the most satisfying (in my opinion…).
>>> 
>>> The turn around consisting in using $f^{‘’}$ or  $f^{\prime\prime}$, or even
>>> $f^{{}^{\prime\prime}}$, is not really satisfying either.
>>> 
>>> But I think (or I hope that) at some point Hans will fix it in mkiv.
>>> 
>>> Best regards: OK
>>> 
>>> On 21 May 2017, at 08:14, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
>>> […]
>>> 
>>> And just for reference, the document below gives the attached pdf,
>>> compiled with lualatex. I think the location of the primes there look
>>> better. Sorry for spamming about this issue, but I think it is
>>> important for all people writing math with ConTeXt.
>>> 
>>> /Mikael
>>> 
>>> \RequirePackage{luatex85}
>>> \documentclass[border=2pt]{standalone}
>>> 
>>> \usepackage{unicode-math}
>>> \setmainfont{LucidaBrightOT}
>>> \setmathfont{LucidaBrightMathOT}
>>> 
>>> \begin{document}
>>> $f'f''$
>>> \end{document}
>>> 

Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Mathias Schickel
>  wrote:
>> Hi Mikael and Otared,
>>
>> I can confirm issues regarding primes, too. If you are using the STIX 2
>> fonts (http://www.stixfonts.org) and my example below you get a somewhat
>> strange behaviour of primes that is pretty obvious. I think the issues
>> should be fixed.
>>
>> By the way the issue seems to depend to some extend on the fonts. Using
>> Lucida by \setupbodyfont[lucidaot] it is not that obvious but still present.
>> Using Latin Modern it seems that the spacing between the primes changes
>> between f'' and f^{''}. Cambria seems to show that behaviour (like Latin
>> Modern), too, but less obvious.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Mathias
>>
>> %% example
>> \unprotect
>>
>> \definefontfeature
>> [stixtwo-math-feature]
>> [kern=yes,
>> ss01=no,% calligraphic letters
>> ss02=yes, % lowercase italic variants (e.g. open g)
>> ss03=no, % hbar und lambdabar variants
>> ss04=yes, % larger and lower primes, minute etc.
>> ss05=no, % shorter arrows
>> ss06=no, % narrower and shorter element and similar symbols
>> ss07=no, % some smaller operators and emptyset variant
>> ss08=yes, % upright integrals etc.
>> ss09=no, % variant negated symbols
>> ss10=yes, % variants of greater and lesser and similar symbols
>> ss11=yes, % variant of negated set (inclusion etc.) symbols
>> ss14=yes, %
>> ss16=yes] % variants of circled operators
>>
>> \starttypescriptcollection[Stix2]
>> \starttypescript [\s!serif] [Stix2] [\s!all]
>> \definefontsynonym
>> [Stix2Regular]
>> [file:STIX2Text-Regular.otf]
>> \definefontsynonym
>> [Stix2Bold]
>> [file:STIX2Text-Bold.otf]
>> \definefontsynonym
>> [Stix2Italic]
>> [file:STIX2Text-Italic.otf]
>> \definefontsynonym
>> [Stix2BoldItalic]
>> [file:STIX2Text-BoldItalic.otf]
>> \definefontsynonym[\s!Serif] [Stix2Regular] [\s!features=\s!default]
>> \definefontsynonym[\s!SerifBold] [Stix2Bold]
>> [\s!features=\s!default]
>> \definefontsynonym[\s!SerifItalic] [Stix2Italic]
>> [\s!features=\s!default]
>> \definefontsynonym[\s!SerifBoldItalic] [Stix2BoldItalic]
>> [\s!features=\s!default]
>> \stoptypescript
>>
>> \starttypescript [\s!math] [Stix2]
>> \definefontsynonym
>> [Stix2Math]
>> [file:STIX2Math.otf]
>> [features=math\mathsizesuffix]
>> \definefontsynonym [\s!MathRoman] [Stix2Math]
>> [\s!features={\s!math\mathsizesuffix,mathextra,stixtwo-math-feature},\s!designsize=\s!auto]
>> \stoptypescript
>>
>> \starttypescript [Stix2]
>> \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!rm] [\s!serif] [Stix2]
>> [\s!default]
>> \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!mm] [\s!math] [Stix2]
>> [\s!default]
>> \stoptypescript
>>
>> \stoptypescriptcollection
>>
>> \protect
>>
>> \setupbodyfont[Stix2]
>>
>> \starttext
>> %
>> Compare $f'$ to $(f')$ and to $f''$, $(f'')$, $f^{''}$ and $(f^{''})$.
>> %
>> \stoptext
>> %% end of example
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 22.05.2017 um 09:50 schrieb Otared Kavian :
>>
>> Hi Mikael,
>>
>> You are correct, the position of \prime depends on whether there is a next
>> character or not after it, and it seems that this has an effect on its
>> position for characters having a subscript as in
>> $f_{1}''(x) \neq f''_{1}(x)$
>> $f'f''f'’'$
>> Best regards: OK
>>
>> On 22 May 2017, at 08:51, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Otared Kavian  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mikael,
>>
>> I agree with what you are reporting: the current behavior of the \prime
>> operator is not completely satisfying when using ConTeXt mkiv, while in mkii
>> it is the most satisfying (in my opinion…).
>>
>> The turn around consisting in using $f^{‘’}$ or  $f^{\prime\prime}$, or even
>> $f^{{}^{\prime\prime}}$, is not really satisfying either.
>>
>> But I think (or I hope that) at some point Hans will fix it in mkiv.
>>
>> Best regards: OK
>>
>> On 21 May 2017, at 08:14, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
>> […]
>>
>> And just for reference, the document below gives the attached pdf,
>> compiled with lualatex. I think the location of the primes there look
>> better. Sorry for spamming about this issue, but I think it is
>> important for all people writing math with ConTeXt.
>>
>> /Mikael
>>
>> \RequirePackage{luatex85}
>> \documentclass[border=2pt]{standalone}
>>
>> \usepackage{unicode-math}
>> \setmainfont{LucidaBrightOT}
>> \setmathfont{LucidaBrightMathOT}
>>
>> \begin{document}
>> $f'f''$
>> \end{document}
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>> the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>> 

Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Mathias Schickel
 wrote:
> Hi Mikael and Otared,
>
> I can confirm issues regarding primes, too. If you are using the STIX 2
> fonts (http://www.stixfonts.org) and my example below you get a somewhat
> strange behaviour of primes that is pretty obvious. I think the issues
> should be fixed.
>
> By the way the issue seems to depend to some extend on the fonts. Using
> Lucida by \setupbodyfont[lucidaot] it is not that obvious but still present.
> Using Latin Modern it seems that the spacing between the primes changes
> between f'' and f^{''}. Cambria seems to show that behaviour (like Latin
> Modern), too, but less obvious.
>
> Best regards
> Mathias
>
> %% example
> \unprotect
>
> \definefontfeature
> [stixtwo-math-feature]
> [kern=yes,
> ss01=no,% calligraphic letters
> ss02=yes, % lowercase italic variants (e.g. open g)
> ss03=no, % hbar und lambdabar variants
> ss04=yes, % larger and lower primes, minute etc.
> ss05=no, % shorter arrows
> ss06=no, % narrower and shorter element and similar symbols
> ss07=no, % some smaller operators and emptyset variant
> ss08=yes, % upright integrals etc.
> ss09=no, % variant negated symbols
> ss10=yes, % variants of greater and lesser and similar symbols
> ss11=yes, % variant of negated set (inclusion etc.) symbols
> ss14=yes, %
> ss16=yes] % variants of circled operators
>
> \starttypescriptcollection[Stix2]
> \starttypescript [\s!serif] [Stix2] [\s!all]
> \definefontsynonym
> [Stix2Regular]
> [file:STIX2Text-Regular.otf]
> \definefontsynonym
> [Stix2Bold]
> [file:STIX2Text-Bold.otf]
> \definefontsynonym
> [Stix2Italic]
> [file:STIX2Text-Italic.otf]
> \definefontsynonym
> [Stix2BoldItalic]
> [file:STIX2Text-BoldItalic.otf]
> \definefontsynonym[\s!Serif] [Stix2Regular] [\s!features=\s!default]
> \definefontsynonym[\s!SerifBold] [Stix2Bold]
> [\s!features=\s!default]
> \definefontsynonym[\s!SerifItalic] [Stix2Italic]
> [\s!features=\s!default]
> \definefontsynonym[\s!SerifBoldItalic] [Stix2BoldItalic]
> [\s!features=\s!default]
> \stoptypescript
>
> \starttypescript [\s!math] [Stix2]
> \definefontsynonym
> [Stix2Math]
> [file:STIX2Math.otf]
> [features=math\mathsizesuffix]
> \definefontsynonym [\s!MathRoman] [Stix2Math]
> [\s!features={\s!math\mathsizesuffix,mathextra,stixtwo-math-feature},\s!designsize=\s!auto]
> \stoptypescript
>
> \starttypescript [Stix2]
> \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!rm] [\s!serif] [Stix2]
> [\s!default]
> \definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!mm] [\s!math] [Stix2]
> [\s!default]
> \stoptypescript
>
> \stoptypescriptcollection
>
> \protect
>
> \setupbodyfont[Stix2]
>
> \starttext
> %
> Compare $f'$ to $(f')$ and to $f''$, $(f'')$, $f^{''}$ and $(f^{''})$.
> %
> \stoptext
> %% end of example
>
>
>
> Am 22.05.2017 um 09:50 schrieb Otared Kavian :
>
> Hi Mikael,
>
> You are correct, the position of \prime depends on whether there is a next
> character or not after it, and it seems that this has an effect on its
> position for characters having a subscript as in
> $f_{1}''(x) \neq f''_{1}(x)$
> $f'f''f'’'$
> Best regards: OK
>
> On 22 May 2017, at 08:51, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Otared Kavian  wrote:
>
> Hi Mikael,
>
> I agree with what you are reporting: the current behavior of the \prime
> operator is not completely satisfying when using ConTeXt mkiv, while in mkii
> it is the most satisfying (in my opinion…).
>
> The turn around consisting in using $f^{‘’}$ or  $f^{\prime\prime}$, or even
> $f^{{}^{\prime\prime}}$, is not really satisfying either.
>
> But I think (or I hope that) at some point Hans will fix it in mkiv.
>
> Best regards: OK
>
> On 21 May 2017, at 08:14, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
> […]
>
> And just for reference, the document below gives the attached pdf,
> compiled with lualatex. I think the location of the primes there look
> better. Sorry for spamming about this issue, but I think it is
> important for all people writing math with ConTeXt.
>
> /Mikael
>
> \RequirePackage{luatex85}
> \documentclass[border=2pt]{standalone}
>
> \usepackage{unicode-math}
> \setmainfont{LucidaBrightOT}
> \setmathfont{LucidaBrightMathOT}
>
> \begin{document}
> $f'f''$
> \end{document}
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> 

Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mathias Schickel]

Hi Mikael and Otared,

I can confirm issues regarding primes, too. If you are using the STIX 2 fonts 
(http://www.stixfonts.org ) and my example below you 
get a somewhat strange behaviour of primes that is pretty obvious. I think the 
issues should be fixed.

By the way the issue seems to depend to some extend on the fonts. Using Lucida 
by \setupbodyfont[lucidaot] it is not that obvious but still present. Using 
Latin Modern it seems that the spacing between the primes changes between f'' 
and f^{''}. Cambria seems to show that behaviour (like Latin Modern), too, but 
less obvious.

Best regards
Mathias

%% example 
\unprotect

\definefontfeature
[stixtwo-math-feature]
[kern=yes,
ss01=no,% calligraphic letters
ss02=yes,   % lowercase italic variants (e.g. open g)
ss03=no,% hbar und lambdabar variants
ss04=yes,   % larger and lower primes, minute etc.
ss05=no,% shorter arrows
ss06=no,% narrower and shorter element and similar 
symbols
ss07=no,% some smaller operators and emptyset variant
ss08=yes,   % upright integrals etc.
ss09=no,% variant negated symbols
ss10=yes,   % variants of greater and lesser and similar 
symbols
ss11=yes,   % variant of negated set (inclusion etc.) 
symbols
ss14=yes,   % 
ss16=yes]   % variants of circled operators

\starttypescriptcollection[Stix2]

\starttypescript [\s!serif] [Stix2] [\s!all]
\definefontsynonym
[Stix2Regular]
[file:STIX2Text-Regular.otf]
\definefontsynonym
[Stix2Bold]
[file:STIX2Text-Bold.otf]
\definefontsynonym
[Stix2Italic]
[file:STIX2Text-Italic.otf]
\definefontsynonym
[Stix2BoldItalic]
[file:STIX2Text-BoldItalic.otf]  
\definefontsynonym[\s!Serif] [Stix2Regular] [\s!features=\s!default]
\definefontsynonym[\s!SerifBold] [Stix2Bold] [\s!features=\s!default]
\definefontsynonym[\s!SerifItalic] [Stix2Italic] 
[\s!features=\s!default]
\definefontsynonym[\s!SerifBoldItalic] [Stix2BoldItalic] 
[\s!features=\s!default]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [\s!math] [Stix2]
\definefontsynonym
[Stix2Math]
[file:STIX2Math.otf]
[features=math\mathsizesuffix]
\definefontsynonym [\s!MathRoman] [Stix2Math] 
[\s!features={\s!math\mathsizesuffix,mathextra,stixtwo-math-feature},\s!designsize=\s!auto]
\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [Stix2]
\definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!rm] [\s!serif] [Stix2] [\s!default]
\definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!mm] [\s!math] [Stix2] [\s!default]
\stoptypescript

\stoptypescriptcollection

\protect

\setupbodyfont[Stix2]

\starttext
%
Compare $f'$ to $(f')$ and to $f''$, $(f'')$, $f^{''}$ and $(f^{''})$.
%
\stoptext
%% end of example



> Am 22.05.2017 um 09:50 schrieb Otared Kavian :
> 
> Hi Mikael,
> 
> You are correct, the position of \prime depends on whether there is a next 
> character or not after it, and it seems that this has an effect on its 
> position for characters having a subscript as in
>   $f_{1}''(x) \neq f''_{1}(x)$ 
>   $f'f''f'’'$
> Best regards: OK
> 
>> On 22 May 2017, at 08:51, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Otared Kavian  wrote:
>>> Hi Mikael,
>>> 
>>> I agree with what you are reporting: the current behavior of the \prime 
>>> operator is not completely satisfying when using ConTeXt mkiv, while in 
>>> mkii it is the most satisfying (in my opinion…).
>>> 
>>> The turn around consisting in using $f^{‘’}$ or  $f^{\prime\prime}$, or 
>>> even $f^{{}^{\prime\prime}}$, is not really satisfying either.
>>> 
>>> But I think (or I hope that) at some point Hans will fix it in mkiv.
>>> 
>>> Best regards: OK
>>> 
 On 21 May 2017, at 08:14, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
 […]
 
 And just for reference, the document below gives the attached pdf,
 compiled with lualatex. I think the location of the primes there look
 better. Sorry for spamming about this issue, but I think it is
 important for all people writing math with ConTeXt.
 
 /Mikael
 
 \RequirePackage{luatex85}
 \documentclass[border=2pt]{standalone}
 
 \usepackage{unicode-math}
 \setmainfont{LucidaBrightOT}
 \setmathfont{LucidaBrightMathOT}
 
 \begin{document}
 $f'f''$
 \end{document}
 ___
 If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
 the Wiki!
 
 maillist 

Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Mikael,

You are correct, the position of \prime depends on whether there is a next 
character or not after it, and it seems that this has an effect on its position 
for characters having a subscript as in
$f_{1}''(x) \neq f''_{1}(x)$ 
$f'f''f'’'$
Best regards: OK

> On 22 May 2017, at 08:51, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Otared Kavian  wrote:
>> Hi Mikael,
>> 
>> I agree with what you are reporting: the current behavior of the \prime 
>> operator is not completely satisfying when using ConTeXt mkiv, while in mkii 
>> it is the most satisfying (in my opinion…).
>> 
>> The turn around consisting in using $f^{‘’}$ or  $f^{\prime\prime}$, or even 
>> $f^{{}^{\prime\prime}}$, is not really satisfying either.
>> 
>> But I think (or I hope that) at some point Hans will fix it in mkiv.
>> 
>> Best regards: OK
>> 
>>> On 21 May 2017, at 08:14, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
>>> […]
>>> 
>>> And just for reference, the document below gives the attached pdf,
>>> compiled with lualatex. I think the location of the primes there look
>>> better. Sorry for spamming about this issue, but I think it is
>>> important for all people writing math with ConTeXt.
>>> 
>>> /Mikael
>>> 
>>> \RequirePackage{luatex85}
>>> \documentclass[border=2pt]{standalone}
>>> 
>>> \usepackage{unicode-math}
>>> \setmainfont{LucidaBrightOT}
>>> \setmathfont{LucidaBrightMathOT}
>>> 
>>> \begin{document}
>>> $f'f''$
>>> \end{document}
>>> ___
>>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
>>> the Wiki!
>>> 
>>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
>>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
>>> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
>>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>>> ___
>> 
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
>> the Wiki!
>> 
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
>> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>> ___
> 
> Otared, thank you for confirmation. I also hope there will be a fix soon.
> 
> In the meantime, I put yet another test file. The location of the
> primes depends on the next character (I use, at the moment current
> version: 2017.05.15 21:48)
> 
> /Mikael
> 
> \definefontfamily[myface][rm][Lucida Bright OT]
> \definefontfamily[myface][mm][Lucida Bright Math OT]
> \setupbodyfont[myface,10pt]
> \starttext
> \startTEXpage[offset=2pt]
> $f'(x)f''(x)f'f''$
> \stopTEXpage
> \stoptext
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___

___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Otared Kavian  wrote:
> Hi Mikael,
>
> I agree with what you are reporting: the current behavior of the \prime 
> operator is not completely satisfying when using ConTeXt mkiv, while in mkii 
> it is the most satisfying (in my opinion…).
>
> The turn around consisting in using $f^{‘’}$ or  $f^{\prime\prime}$, or even 
> $f^{{}^{\prime\prime}}$, is not really satisfying either.
>
> But I think (or I hope that) at some point Hans will fix it in mkiv.
>
> Best regards: OK
>
>> On 21 May 2017, at 08:14, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
>> […]
>>
>> And just for reference, the document below gives the attached pdf,
>> compiled with lualatex. I think the location of the primes there look
>> better. Sorry for spamming about this issue, but I think it is
>> important for all people writing math with ConTeXt.
>>
>> /Mikael
>>
>> \RequirePackage{luatex85}
>> \documentclass[border=2pt]{standalone}
>>
>> \usepackage{unicode-math}
>> \setmainfont{LucidaBrightOT}
>> \setmathfont{LucidaBrightMathOT}
>>
>> \begin{document}
>> $f'f''$
>> \end{document}
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
>> the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
>> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>> ___
>
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___

Otared, thank you for confirmation. I also hope there will be a fix soon.

In the meantime, I put yet another test file. The location of the
primes depends on the next character (I use, at the moment current
version: 2017.05.15 21:48)

/Mikael

\definefontfamily[myface][rm][Lucida Bright OT]
\definefontfamily[myface][mm][Lucida Bright Math OT]
\setupbodyfont[myface,10pt]
\starttext
\startTEXpage[offset=2pt]
$f'(x)f''(x)f'f''$
\stopTEXpage
\stoptext


primfisk.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Mikael,

I agree with what you are reporting: the current behavior of the \prime 
operator is not completely satisfying when using ConTeXt mkiv, while in mkii it 
is the most satisfying (in my opinion…). 

The turn around consisting in using $f^{‘’}$ or  $f^{\prime\prime}$, or even 
$f^{{}^{\prime\prime}}$, is not really satisfying either.

But I think (or I hope that) at some point Hans will fix it in mkiv.

Best regards: OK

> On 21 May 2017, at 08:14, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
> […]
> 
> And just for reference, the document below gives the attached pdf,
> compiled with lualatex. I think the location of the primes there look
> better. Sorry for spamming about this issue, but I think it is
> important for all people writing math with ConTeXt.
> 
> /Mikael
> 
> \RequirePackage{luatex85}
> \documentclass[border=2pt]{standalone}
> 
> \usepackage{unicode-math}
> \setmainfont{LucidaBrightOT}
> \setmathfont{LucidaBrightMathOT}
> 
> \begin{document}
> $f'f''$
> \end{document}
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___

___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 7:32 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
>> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  
>> wrote:
>>> Den 18 maj 2017 10:13 fm skrev "Otared Kavian" :
>>>
>>> Hi Hans,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your explanations.
>>> When using constructions such as $f’’_2(x)$, I will adapt my input  in order
>>> to get what seems correct.
>>>
>>> Best regards: OK
>>>
 On 17 May 2017, at 17:17, Hans Hagen  wrote:

 On 5/17/2017 8:35 AM, Otared Kavian wrote:
> Hi Hans,
>
> Thanks for having fixed the behavior of the prime in the latest beta
> release (ConTeXt  version 2017.05.15 21:48).
> However, as you may see in the two attached PDF files, the result is
> still incorrect when one types for example $f_2’’(x)$, which should give 
> the
> same result as $f’’_2(x)$.
> The correct behaviour is that obtained with mkii. Indeed one can
> circumvent the behaviour of the latest beta release of mkiv by using 
> tricks
> such as the ones in the example code below, but this should be avoided in 
> my
> opinion.

 well, it depends on how one sees this '' mess

 the problem with primes is that in macro packages they are messy entities
 that should collapse or not (active char mess) and the more clever a macro
 packages becomes the harder it becomes to makes it robust and/or to fight
 against such heuristics

 add to that the fact that the symbol itself is a funny positioned
 something already raised in a font or not i.e. sometimes in need of
 superscript and sometimes explicitly not

 for unicode we need to turn two '' into a double and ''' into a and triple
 such

 that said, in context these thingies are at some point intercepted and
 their current state is looked at: superscript? multipel in a row? one ebing
 the nucleus of another ... etc .. the current (working again) behavior is
 what we support and i don't look forward to more heuristics


> The following PDF have been obtained with mkii and mkiv with the
> following example code.
> Best regards: OK
>
> %%% begin derivatives-prime.tex
> \starttext
>
> \startformula
> f''_{2}(x) = f_{2}''(x) = f^{''}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{''}(x) % =
> f^{{}^{''}}_{2}(x)
> \stopformula
> As one may see the result of \type{f_{2}''(x) = } $f_{2}''(x)$ is not
> correct in \type{mkiv}.
>
> The following positions of the superscripts \type{(3)} are correct both
> in \type{mkii} and in \type{mkiv}.
> \startformula
> f^{(3)}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{(3)}(x)
> \stopformula
>
> \stoptext
> %%% end derivatives-prime.tex
>
>
>
>
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>
> ___
>


 --

 -
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
 -

 ___
 If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
 the Wiki!

 maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
 http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
 webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
 archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
 wiki : http://contextgarden.net

 ___
>>>
>>> ___
>>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>>> the Wiki!
>>>
>>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
>>> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
>>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>>> ___
>>>
>>>
>>> OK, very good, it seems that we have a working solution and one specific 

Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
>> Den 18 maj 2017 10:13 fm skrev "Otared Kavian" :
>>
>> Hi Hans,
>>
>> Thanks for your explanations.
>> When using constructions such as $f’’_2(x)$, I will adapt my input  in order
>> to get what seems correct.
>>
>> Best regards: OK
>>
>>> On 17 May 2017, at 17:17, Hans Hagen  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 5/17/2017 8:35 AM, Otared Kavian wrote:
 Hi Hans,

 Thanks for having fixed the behavior of the prime in the latest beta
 release (ConTeXt  version 2017.05.15 21:48).
 However, as you may see in the two attached PDF files, the result is
 still incorrect when one types for example $f_2’’(x)$, which should give 
 the
 same result as $f’’_2(x)$.
 The correct behaviour is that obtained with mkii. Indeed one can
 circumvent the behaviour of the latest beta release of mkiv by using tricks
 such as the ones in the example code below, but this should be avoided in 
 my
 opinion.
>>>
>>> well, it depends on how one sees this '' mess
>>>
>>> the problem with primes is that in macro packages they are messy entities
>>> that should collapse or not (active char mess) and the more clever a macro
>>> packages becomes the harder it becomes to makes it robust and/or to fight
>>> against such heuristics
>>>
>>> add to that the fact that the symbol itself is a funny positioned
>>> something already raised in a font or not i.e. sometimes in need of
>>> superscript and sometimes explicitly not
>>>
>>> for unicode we need to turn two '' into a double and ''' into a and triple
>>> such
>>>
>>> that said, in context these thingies are at some point intercepted and
>>> their current state is looked at: superscript? multipel in a row? one ebing
>>> the nucleus of another ... etc .. the current (working again) behavior is
>>> what we support and i don't look forward to more heuristics
>>>
>>>
 The following PDF have been obtained with mkii and mkiv with the
 following example code.
 Best regards: OK

 %%% begin derivatives-prime.tex
 \starttext

 \startformula
 f''_{2}(x) = f_{2}''(x) = f^{''}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{''}(x) % =
 f^{{}^{''}}_{2}(x)
 \stopformula
 As one may see the result of \type{f_{2}''(x) = } $f_{2}''(x)$ is not
 correct in \type{mkiv}.

 The following positions of the superscripts \type{(3)} are correct both
 in \type{mkii} and in \type{mkiv}.
 \startformula
 f^{(3)}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{(3)}(x)
 \stopformula

 \stoptext
 %%% end derivatives-prime.tex




 ___
 If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
 the Wiki!

 maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
 http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
 webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
 archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
 wiki : http://contextgarden.net

 ___

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> -
>>>  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>>  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>>   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
>>> -
>>>
>>> ___
>>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>>> the Wiki!
>>>
>>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
>>> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
>>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>>>
>>> ___
>>
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>> the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
>> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>> ___
>>
>>
>> OK, very good, it seems that we have a working solution and one specific way
>> to write it. I have absolutely nothing against that, but I would like us
>> (me?) to document it, since I think future users might have use of it. Is
>> the math page in the wiki the right place?
>>
>> (It 

Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
> Den 18 maj 2017 10:13 fm skrev "Otared Kavian" :
>
> Hi Hans,
>
> Thanks for your explanations.
> When using constructions such as $f’’_2(x)$, I will adapt my input  in order
> to get what seems correct.
>
> Best regards: OK
>
>> On 17 May 2017, at 17:17, Hans Hagen  wrote:
>>
>> On 5/17/2017 8:35 AM, Otared Kavian wrote:
>>> Hi Hans,
>>>
>>> Thanks for having fixed the behavior of the prime in the latest beta
>>> release (ConTeXt  version 2017.05.15 21:48).
>>> However, as you may see in the two attached PDF files, the result is
>>> still incorrect when one types for example $f_2’’(x)$, which should give the
>>> same result as $f’’_2(x)$.
>>> The correct behaviour is that obtained with mkii. Indeed one can
>>> circumvent the behaviour of the latest beta release of mkiv by using tricks
>>> such as the ones in the example code below, but this should be avoided in my
>>> opinion.
>>
>> well, it depends on how one sees this '' mess
>>
>> the problem with primes is that in macro packages they are messy entities
>> that should collapse or not (active char mess) and the more clever a macro
>> packages becomes the harder it becomes to makes it robust and/or to fight
>> against such heuristics
>>
>> add to that the fact that the symbol itself is a funny positioned
>> something already raised in a font or not i.e. sometimes in need of
>> superscript and sometimes explicitly not
>>
>> for unicode we need to turn two '' into a double and ''' into a and triple
>> such
>>
>> that said, in context these thingies are at some point intercepted and
>> their current state is looked at: superscript? multipel in a row? one ebing
>> the nucleus of another ... etc .. the current (working again) behavior is
>> what we support and i don't look forward to more heuristics
>>
>>
>>> The following PDF have been obtained with mkii and mkiv with the
>>> following example code.
>>> Best regards: OK
>>>
>>> %%% begin derivatives-prime.tex
>>> \starttext
>>>
>>> \startformula
>>> f''_{2}(x) = f_{2}''(x) = f^{''}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{''}(x) % =
>>> f^{{}^{''}}_{2}(x)
>>> \stopformula
>>> As one may see the result of \type{f_{2}''(x) = } $f_{2}''(x)$ is not
>>> correct in \type{mkiv}.
>>>
>>> The following positions of the superscripts \type{(3)} are correct both
>>> in \type{mkii} and in \type{mkiv}.
>>> \startformula
>>> f^{(3)}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{(3)}(x)
>>> \stopformula
>>>
>>> \stoptext
>>> %%% end derivatives-prime.tex
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>>> the Wiki!
>>>
>>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
>>> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
>>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -
>>  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
>> -
>>
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>> the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
>> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>>
>> ___
>
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___
>
>
> OK, very good, it seems that we have a working solution and one specific way
> to write it. I have absolutely nothing against that, but I would like us
> (me?) to document it, since I think future users might have use of it. Is
> the math page in the wiki the right place?
>
> (It will take some time before I will be able to act. I'm currently
> travelling with close to no working connection.)
>
> /Mikael

I'm sorry, but there seem to still be problems with primes.

Look at the height of the 

Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

Den 18 maj 2017 10:13 fm skrev "Otared Kavian" :

Hi Hans,

Thanks for your explanations.
When using constructions such as $f’’_2(x)$, I will adapt my input  in
order to get what seems correct.

Best regards: OK

> On 17 May 2017, at 17:17, Hans Hagen  wrote:
>
> On 5/17/2017 8:35 AM, Otared Kavian wrote:
>> Hi Hans,
>>
>> Thanks for having fixed the behavior of the prime in the latest beta
release (ConTeXt  version 2017.05.15 21:48).
>> However, as you may see in the two attached PDF files, the result is
still incorrect when one types for example $f_2’’(x)$, which should give
the same result as $f’’_2(x)$.
>> The correct behaviour is that obtained with mkii. Indeed one can
circumvent the behaviour of the latest beta release of mkiv by using tricks
such as the ones in the example code below, but this should be avoided in
my opinion.
>
> well, it depends on how one sees this '' mess
>
> the problem with primes is that in macro packages they are messy entities
that should collapse or not (active char mess) and the more clever a macro
packages becomes the harder it becomes to makes it robust and/or to fight
against such heuristics
>
> add to that the fact that the symbol itself is a funny positioned
something already raised in a font or not i.e. sometimes in need of
superscript and sometimes explicitly not
>
> for unicode we need to turn two '' into a double and ''' into a and
triple such
>
> that said, in context these thingies are at some point intercepted and
their current state is looked at: superscript? multipel in a row? one ebing
the nucleus of another ... etc .. the current (working again) behavior is
what we support and i don't look forward to more heuristics
>
>
>> The following PDF have been obtained with mkii and mkiv with the
following example code.
>> Best regards: OK
>>
>> %%% begin derivatives-prime.tex
>> \starttext
>>
>> \startformula
>> f''_{2}(x) = f_{2}''(x) = f^{''}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{''}(x) % =
f^{{}^{''}}_{2}(x)
>> \stopformula
>> As one may see the result of \type{f_{2}''(x) = } $f_{2}''(x)$ is not
correct in \type{mkiv}.
>>
>> The following positions of the superscripts \type{(3)} are correct both
in \type{mkii} and in \type{mkiv}.
>> \startformula
>> f^{(3)}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{(3)}(x)
>> \stopformula
>>
>> \stoptext
>> %%% end derivatives-prime.tex
>>
>>
>>
>> 
___
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to the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/
listinfo/ntg-context
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>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>> 
___
>>
>
>
> --
>
> -
>  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 
___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/
listinfo/ntg-context
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> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> 
___


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OK, very good, it seems that we have a working solution and one specific
way to write it. I have absolutely nothing against that, but I would like
us (me?) to document it, since I think future users might have use of it.
Is the math page in the wiki the right place?

(It will take some time before I will be able to act. I'm currently
travelling with close to no working connection.)

/Mikael
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Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Hans,

Thanks for your explanations. 
When using constructions such as $f’’_2(x)$, I will adapt my input  in order to 
get what seems correct.

Best regards: OK

> On 17 May 2017, at 17:17, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
> On 5/17/2017 8:35 AM, Otared Kavian wrote:
>> Hi Hans,
>> 
>> Thanks for having fixed the behavior of the prime in the latest beta release 
>> (ConTeXt  version 2017.05.15 21:48).
>> However, as you may see in the two attached PDF files, the result is still 
>> incorrect when one types for example $f_2’’(x)$, which should give the same 
>> result as $f’’_2(x)$.
>> The correct behaviour is that obtained with mkii. Indeed one can circumvent 
>> the behaviour of the latest beta release of mkiv by using tricks such as the 
>> ones in the example code below, but this should be avoided in my opinion.
> 
> well, it depends on how one sees this '' mess
> 
> the problem with primes is that in macro packages they are messy entities 
> that should collapse or not (active char mess) and the more clever a macro 
> packages becomes the harder it becomes to makes it robust and/or to fight 
> against such heuristics
> 
> add to that the fact that the symbol itself is a funny positioned something 
> already raised in a font or not i.e. sometimes in need of superscript and 
> sometimes explicitly not
> 
> for unicode we need to turn two '' into a double and ''' into a and triple 
> such
> 
> that said, in context these thingies are at some point intercepted and their 
> current state is looked at: superscript? multipel in a row? one ebing the 
> nucleus of another ... etc .. the current (working again) behavior is what we 
> support and i don't look forward to more heuristics
> 
> 
>> The following PDF have been obtained with mkii and mkiv with the following 
>> example code.
>> Best regards: OK
>> 
>> %%% begin derivatives-prime.tex
>> \starttext
>> 
>> \startformula
>> f''_{2}(x) = f_{2}''(x) = f^{''}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{''}(x) % = 
>> f^{{}^{''}}_{2}(x)
>> \stopformula
>> As one may see the result of \type{f_{2}''(x) = } $f_{2}''(x)$ is not 
>> correct in \type{mkiv}.
>> 
>> The following positions of the superscripts \type{(3)} are correct both in 
>> \type{mkii} and in \type{mkiv}.
>> \startformula
>> f^{(3)}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{(3)}(x)
>> \stopformula
>> 
>> \stoptext
>> %%% end derivatives-prime.tex
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
>> the Wiki!
>> 
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
>> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>> ___
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> -
>  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___

___
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___

Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/17/2017 8:35 AM, Otared Kavian wrote:

Hi Hans,

Thanks for having fixed the behavior of the prime in the latest beta release 
(ConTeXt  version 2017.05.15 21:48).
However, as you may see in the two attached PDF files, the result is still 
incorrect when one types for example $f_2’’(x)$, which should give the same 
result as $f’’_2(x)$.
The correct behaviour is that obtained with mkii. Indeed one can circumvent the 
behaviour of the latest beta release of mkiv by using tricks such as the ones 
in the example code below, but this should be avoided in my opinion.


well, it depends on how one sees this '' mess

the problem with primes is that in macro packages they are messy 
entities that should collapse or not (active char mess) and the more 
clever a macro packages becomes the harder it becomes to makes it robust 
and/or to fight against such heuristics


add to that the fact that the symbol itself is a funny positioned 
something already raised in a font or not i.e. sometimes in need of 
superscript and sometimes explicitly not


for unicode we need to turn two '' into a double and ''' into a and 
triple such


that said, in context these thingies are at some point intercepted and 
their current state is looked at: superscript? multipel in a row? one 
ebing the nucleus of another ... etc .. the current (working again) 
behavior is what we support and i don't look forward to more heuristics




The following PDF have been obtained with mkii and mkiv with the following 
example code.
Best regards: OK

%%% begin derivatives-prime.tex
\starttext

\startformula
f''_{2}(x) = f_{2}''(x) = f^{''}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{''}(x) % = f^{{}^{''}}_{2}(x)
\stopformula
As one may see the result of \type{f_{2}''(x) = } $f_{2}''(x)$ is not correct 
in \type{mkiv}.

The following positions of the superscripts \type{(3)} are correct both in 
\type{mkii} and in \type{mkiv}.
\startformula
f^{(3)}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{(3)}(x)
\stopformula

\stoptext
%%% end derivatives-prime.tex



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--

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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[NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Hans,

Thanks for having fixed the behavior of the prime in the latest beta release 
(ConTeXt  version 2017.05.15 21:48).
However, as you may see in the two attached PDF files, the result is still 
incorrect when one types for example $f_2’’(x)$, which should give the same 
result as $f’’_2(x)$.
The correct behaviour is that obtained with mkii. Indeed one can circumvent the 
behaviour of the latest beta release of mkiv by using tricks such as the ones 
in the example code below, but this should be avoided in my opinion.

The following PDF have been obtained with mkii and mkiv with the following 
example code.
Best regards: OK

%%% begin derivatives-prime.tex
\starttext

\startformula
f''_{2}(x) = f_{2}''(x) = f^{''}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{''}(x) % = f^{{}^{''}}_{2}(x)
\stopformula
As one may see the result of \type{f_{2}''(x) = } $f_{2}''(x)$ is not correct 
in \type{mkiv}. 

The following positions of the superscripts \type{(3)} are correct both in 
\type{mkii} and in \type{mkiv}.
\startformula
f^{(3)}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{(3)}(x)
\stopformula

\stoptext
%%% end derivatives-prime.tex



derivatives-prime-mkii.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


derivatives-prime-mkiv.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Wiki!

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