Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 04.04.10 02:39, schrieb Aditya Mahajan:
9. \raisebox?
What is the proper way to raise or lower a bit of text? I just
spent ...
\raisebox{1ex}{?}
When I try:
\raisebox{1ex}{--}
Context stops on the error:
A box was supposed to be here
\raisebox{1ex}{
--}
Provide a box :-) \raisebox{1ex}{\hbox{--}} (untested)
It's \raisebox{1ex}\hbox{--} but I think I should apologize to Michael
for not remembering the right syntax of each ConTeXt command and make
him waste some of his precious time.
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Saturday 03 April 2010 07:37:36 Gour wrote: However, when I ask somewhere about the support for ConTeXt I'm getting answers like: This is the project which has only 5 or 6 users. Who actually uses it? Use LaTeX! :-( You can use MS-Word - it has a *huge* user base! Alan ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Hi, Gour wrote: Russell As a tech writer for almost 30 years, and someone just getting Russell into Context, i am sorry to hear that was a joke! Just see the sad affair of Context's docs so that the 'book' is topic for the April's 1st joke. :-( If it wouldn't be so sad, it would be funny... Personally, I think it is a sad joke that I started a community project to update the reference manual after a lot of complaints about the documentation but over four years down the road the actual community turns out to have a population closely approximating one. At the moment I'm looking to learn jQuery and, rest assured, there are several books to choose from. If you could convince mozilla to adopt ConTeXt, I am sure there would be a lot of books within half a year. Have a closer look on books on 'hot topics' like jQuery and you'll see that almost none of these books are written by the inventors themselves. Granted, often the first (and sometimes the best) books are by the inventors, but the *number* of books on a subject just gives an indication of the book market size, nothing more. However, when I ask somewhere about the support for ConTeXt I'm getting answers like: This is the project which has only 5 or 6 users. Who actually uses it? Use LaTeX! :-( The availability of ConTeXt books will not automatically create more users (nor even automatically create readers, for that matter). This raises another concern and that is: what is the future of ConTeXt is Hans get hit by the bus? (Of course, we even do not want to think about it...) The answer to this question is quite obvious if you have read Douglas Adams' books: the bus will think about the impact of its actions on the universe for a moment. Then, deeply immersed in gut-wrenching shame, it will travel back in time half a minute and push its own breaks for an emergency stop. Best wishes, Taco ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 08:47, Alan BRASLAU wrote: On Saturday 03 April 2010 07:37:36 Gour wrote: However, when I ask somewhere about the support for ConTeXt I'm getting answers like: This is the project which has only 5 or 6 users. Who actually uses it? Use LaTeX! :-( You can use MS-Word - it has a *huge* user base! I really love that answer :) :) :) And it's definitely true. Much more true than the ConTeXt-to-LaTeX ratio :) ConTeXt has a bus-factor of 1. Well, if you ask me, the whole LaTeX core has bus-factor 0 (apart from some well-maintaned packages; and even those packages usually have bus-factor just a tiny fraction above 1; including TikZ, tex4ht, ...). If you want full support and more guarantee with a higher bus-factor, you should better choose Adobe or Microsoft products and I really mean it. For me it's just fun to browse the sources from time to time ... It is definitely true that a manual is needed (everyone agrees with that), but you need to keep in mind that Hans makes a living with what he does and we can be extremely happy that he releases ConTeXt publically at all (he could just as well keep it in private for himself and his company). Writing a good manual could easily take one-man-year or more, so if some company is willing to pay him for that, he (or some other almost-developer) would probably do it. What nobody here realizes that main developers of jQuery or any other tools probably don't answer dozens of mails daily to beginners' questions on the mailing lists. As already said: anyone is free to start writing a manual by himself. People to help will join later ... Just start. Mojca ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 3-4-2010 7:37, Gour wrote: However, when I ask somewhere about the support for ConTeXt I'm getting answers like: This is the project which has only 5 or 6 users. Who actually uses it? Use LaTeX! :-( you must be kidding ... there are some 600 people on this list whih makes it actually not that small tex list; it's also one of the active tex lists also keep in mind that lates (+amsmath) was declared 'a standard' soon after tex surfaced ... just wonder why currently there are only two main macro packages: latex and context .. it sometimes surprises me that eventually we made it to this stage also, quite some developments originate and relate to the context community which might also be a good sign as taco mentions ... 99% of the latex books are not written by lamport also, even today i see books show up that cover the same topics every time so it looks like none of the books is the definitive answer anyway ... idris is writing a context book so push him to speed up This raises another concern and that is: what is the future of ConTeXt is Hans get hit by the bus? (Of course, we even do not want to think about it...) there are couple of folks out there (and on the list) who know the source code pretty well so i would not worry to much about that Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
2010/4/3 Gour g...@gour-nitai.com: getting answers like: This is the project which has only 5 or 6 users. Who actually uses it? Use LaTeX! :-( The answer is true if you only have to write articles for scientific journals - AFAIK there is no major one accepting Context input. Get AMS or ACM to accept Context and you will see books soon. Or write a LaTeX module for Context. :-) Best Martin ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 10:59, schrieb Martin Schröder: Or write a LaTeX module for Context. :-) http://modules.contextgarden.net/LaTeX Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Wolfgang Schuster schuster.wolfg...@googlemail.com wrote: http://modules.contextgarden.net/LaTeX what do you think about luaLaTeX compatibility module for ConTeX-mkiv ? -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Hi Michael, based on Luatex, but that would depend on Hans explaining how Luatex works LuaTeX is documented very thoroughly. The manual is 180 pages and as far as I can see it mentions and describes every aspect of the API. I am not saying that from the reference manual alone I understand every detail (every now and then I need to ask a question on the mailinglist), but that is a different subject as TeX itself is rather complex (you need knowledge about glue and boxes for example). Patrick ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
2010/4/3 Wolfgang Schuster schuster.wolfg...@googlemail.com: Am 03.04.10 10:59, schrieb Martin Schröder: Or write a LaTeX module for Context. :-) http://modules.contextgarden.net/LaTeX Wolfgang Wow! Any documentation on what it supports? -- Vedran Miletić ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Michael Saunders wrote: Mojca's point, that Context is commercial, may be the key: it can be free in name only but if the means of using it are kept secret, it's only of benefit to Pragma. (Hans himself mentioned earlier that there are many undocumented options for use in-house only that outsiders see in the code and wonder about.) If you spend some time on the mailing list your probably make the contrary observation. There are countless cases where Hans, Taco or Wolfgang implement some features to fulfill a request of a user. Nearly every time I had a question/problem, a solution came up within _hours_. That's quite impressive imho. That also means that many solutions can be found by searching the mailing list archives ... not few things are also mentioned in the Wiki. And for the very basic problems, the old manuals still mostly apply. I do think that it would be pretty awesome to have a central up-to-date documentation which I could also recommend to other people I try to convince to use ConTeXt instead of Word, Writer or LaTeX. But at least for my personal needs I find answers to most of my questions already. Best Regards, Andreas. ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Michael Saunders wrote: Taco's objection that no one helps with the community project to update the reference manual is reasonable, but also predictable: strangers cannot simply wander in and write the book. The knowledge is in Hans's head (and maybe a few others), and only they can communicate it. It's evident that they either can't or won't. Some feedback on the quality other than 'it sucks' would have helped enormously. ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 08:54:54 +0200 Taco == Taco Hoekwater t...@elvenkind.com wrote: Taco Granted, often the first (and sometimes the best) books are by Taco the inventors, but the *number* of books on a subject just gives Taco an indication of the book market size, nothing more. Well, I used example of jQuery which is hot for me atm, but I could say Django as well or something. Why do you think the books about different projects are written bought? It's not novel-market... Taco The availability of ConTeXt books will not automatically create Taco more users (nor even automatically create readers, for that Taco matter). Hmm, interesting... If even you think that ConTeXt books are not important (to bring new users), then no wonder we do not have even a single one... Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 10:51:33 +0200 Hans == Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl wrote: Hello Hans, Hans you must be kidding ... there are some 600 people on this list Hans whih makes it actually not that small tex list; it's also one of Hans the active tex lists I just conveyed real message which I got, nothing else, i.e. I did not paint that picture... Here you can e.g. see reply from the main dev which I got 2 years ago when asked about support for ConTexT in docutils (which does LaTeX): http://article.gmane.org/gmane.text.docutils.user/4404 Hans also keep in mind that lates (+amsmath) was declared 'a standard' Hans soon after tex surfaced ... just wonder why currently there are Hans only two main macro packages: latex and context .. it sometimes Hans surprises me that eventually we made it to this stage I offer my deepest respect for your work and tireless enthusiasm. Hans as taco mentions ... 99% of the latex books are not written by Hans lamport Nobody expects that you write the book... Hans anyway ... idris is writing a context book so push him to speed up That's very nice to hear...much better than some other replies in this thread. ;) Hans there are couple of folks out there (and on the list) who know Hans the source code pretty well so i would not worry to much about Hans that OK. We hope there won't be need for the proof in practice. Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 11:20, schrieb luigi scarso: http://modules.contextgarden.net/LaTeX what do you think about luaLaTeX compatibility module for ConTeX-mkiv ? 1. The LaTeX module is from Brooks Moses, not me. 2. What do you expect from a LuaLaTeX module? Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 11:47, schrieb Vedran Miletić: Or write a LaTeX module for Context. :- http://modules.contextgarden.net/LaTeX Wow! Any documentation on what it supports? http://dl.contextgarden.net/modules/t-latex/tex/context/third/latex/latextest.tex Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
2010/4/3 Taco Hoekwater t...@elvenkind.com: Over the past four years, it has been next to impossible to get people interested in the reference manual project, not even for something as simple as reading the rewritten chapters and telling me what they think about it. Still, at the same time, complaints about the quality of the documentation have been a constant recurrence on the mailing list. I know the argument that beginners do not understand the source well enough to write a manual themselves is valid. But it is equally true that a person that *does* know the source enough to write the manual is not the correct person to proofread it. The near total lack of feedback had led me to believe that most complainers are in it just for the complaining. This is extremely demotivating, and so I have almost given up on doing documentation at all. I mean, what's the point if nobody really cares? There are many more interesting things to do in life than work for weeks on end on revising chapters nobody appears willing to read anyway. I'm more than willing to proofread it and offer suggestions, and I'm pretty certain I'm not the only one. Regards, -- Vedran Miletić ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:54:18 +0200 Andreas == Andreas Schneider ak...@gmx.de wrote: Hello Andreas, Andreas If you spend some time on the mailing list your probably make Andreas the contrary observation. There are countless cases where Andreas Hans, Taco or Wolfgang implement some features to fulfill a Andreas request of a user. Nearly every time I had a question/problem, Andreas a solution came up within _hours_. That's quite impressive Andreas imho. That also means that many solutions can be found by Andreas searching the mailing list archives ... not few things are Andreas also mentioned in the Wiki. And for the very basic problems, Andreas the old manuals still mostly apply. Thank you for your post. You are touching one of the very important aspects of ConTeXt which lot of people here do not or does not want to understand... I'm not the one who is living typography or for whom typesetting and/or writing books is bread butter...When I did two books some years ago I was not confident I could make it due to the lack of up-to-date docs. I picked two LaTeX books (Kopka/Daly Companion) which helped me to publish the books using LaTeX/LyX and I helped the project by sending donation as well as put credit in the book for all the tools which I used. (These days I'm TUG member and give some modest donation for TeX Gyre and LuaTeX projects.) So, the main variable in equation here is: TIME! I simply do not have time to research mailing lists, wikis etc. to find about the 'application', but prefer to buy the book (I'm book guy accustomed to learn from books) and read it afk to learn basic things. Then, I might get into mailing list, IRC, forums etc. when faced with very specific problems. That's the reason, I believe, why many people are buying books - to quickly get 'in action' as Manning publishers explain their book series. However, it might be that ConTeXt prefer to always stay niche-product and to, as Haskellers say: Avoid success at all costs.” :-) Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 14:14, schrieb Michael Saunders: I've been trying to be more constructive than saying 'it sucks'. I'm not complaining just to complain---I want to get the most I can out of the software. Please point me to a rewritten chapter you would like me to look at and I will give it a try. - http://context.aanhet.net/svn/contextman/context-reference/en/co-typography.pdf - http://context.aanhet.net/svn/contextman/context-reference/en/co-fonts.pdf Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 3-4-2010 12:54, Andreas Schneider wrote: Michael Saunders wrote: Mojca's point, that Context is commercial, may be the key: it can be free in name only but if the means of using it are kept secret, it's only of benefit to Pragma. (Hans himself mentioned earlier that there are many undocumented options for use in-house only that outsiders see in the code and wonder about.) If you spend some time on the mailing list your probably make the contrary observation. There are countless cases where Hans, Taco or Wolfgang implement some features to fulfill a request of a user. Nearly every time I had a question/problem, a solution came up within _hours_. That's quite impressive imho. That also means that many solutions can be found by searching the mailing list archives ... not few things are also mentioned in the Wiki. And for the very basic problems, the old manuals still mostly apply. I do think that it would be pretty awesome to have a central up-to-date documentation which I could also recommend to other people I try to convince to use ConTeXt instead of Word, Writer or LaTeX. But at least for my personal needs I find answers to most of my questions already. it could be a user effort to document the new stuff posted on the list Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 3-4-2010 1:48, Gour wrote: On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 10:51:33 +0200 Hans == Hans Hagenpra...@wxs.nl wrote: Hello Hans, Hans you must be kidding ... there are some 600 people on this list Hans whih makes it actually not that small tex list; it's also one of Hans the active tex lists I just conveyed real message which I got, nothing else, i.e. I did not paint that picture... Here you can e.g. see reply from the main dev which I got 2 years ago when asked about support for ConTexT in docutils (which does LaTeX): http://article.gmane.org/gmane.text.docutils.user/4404 i've been sent worse examples, like context is just plain tex or context is a package for latex or context cannot do math or ... also luatex is not going to succees or luatex is a bad idea or ... Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 03 2010, Michael Saunders wrote: That's the feeling I'm getting. I'm finding it hard to do a lot of basic things in Context. Maybe Context can do them and maybe it can't, but there is no way to find out. Could you please provide a typical example? switch and finding it practically impossible. I imagine many people try, spend a week trying to get it to work and then give up and go back to LaTeX. Why do you? Personal experience: in 2003 I switched from LaTeX to ConTeXt, nearly from one day to the other, and since then without ever missing LaTeX (ok, only very rarely ... ;) Cheers, Peter -- Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 03 2010, Patrick Gundlach wrote: LuaTeX is documented very thoroughly. The manual is 180 pages and as far as I can see it mentions and describes every aspect of the API. Moreover it seems that Taco keeps it always in sync with the code! Cheers, Peter -- Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 3-4-2010 11:23, Michael Saunders wrote: That's the feeling I'm getting. I'm finding it hard to do a lot of basic things in Context. Maybe Context can do them and maybe it can't, but there is no way to find out. If the claims that Context is better really aren't empty, I would expect a lot of people to switch, but I imagine 99% of them are in the same boat I'm in---trying to switch and finding it practically impossible. I imagine many people try, spend a week trying to get it to work and then give up and go back to LaTeX. why should users switch .. if something works ok there need to be good reasons Mojca's point, that Context is commercial, may be the key: it can be free in name only but if the means of using it are kept secret, it's only of benefit to Pragma. (Hans himself mentioned earlier that there are many undocumented options for use in-house only that outsiders see in the code and wonder about.) context being commercial? it's costing us more than it brings in and always had .. and as all code is public and most of the things that can be done are no secret (e.g. showed at user group meetings) the snippets of code that i referred to are simply too obscure to document (and i tend to remove them) .. actually some experimental code is being used and might evolve now concerning documentation, you should explain one thing: - a working day has 8 hours - add to that weekends and evenings - consider that writing code takes time - and answering mails too - and visiting user group meetings and doing talks there - and writing some miminal documentation (or history docs or articles) it looks to me that you're one of the few who either cannot imagine how much time i (and taco and others) spent on something free and still have some time left for our normal job as wel as some social time but maybe i should settle on me being too imperfect and inefficient and needing 16 hours instead of 8 which leaves me no time for writing manuals (which would be bad anyway) Taco's objection that no one helps with the community project to update the reference manual is reasonable, but also predictable: strangers cannot simply wander in and write the book. The knowledge is in Hans's head (and maybe a few others), and only they can communicate it. It's evident that they either can't or won't. if the knowledge is in my head, how come that wolfgang can answer most questions (and if he couldn't we'd have a real problem as at least i have not more time) I really would like to see the quality of computer typesetting advance, and I was hopeful at hearing about Luatex/Context. I'd love to see Context produce better output more easily than LaTeX, but so far I'm putting a lot of effort into it to get some very disappointing results. One might place some hope in a future (21st c.?) LaTeX 3 based on Luatex, but that would depend on Hans explaining how Luatex works, and it seems doubtful that would ever happen. well, it has been expressed several times (also at user group meetings) that latex will not use luatex or at least not the lua in tex ... all efforts with respect to that are personal initiatives For now I'm sticking with Context because I still hope there might be some value in it, but it's hard to find. ok Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Hi! Gour a écrit : 03/04 13:42 Taco The availability of ConTeXt books will not automatically create Taco more users (nor even automatically create readers, for that Taco matter). Hmm, interesting... If even you think that ConTeXt books are not important (to bring new users), then no wonder we do not have even a single one... I think Taco didn't say *at all* that books are not important; he just said that the books will not automatically increase the use. 03/04 14:13 However, it might be that ConTeXt prefer to always stay niche-product and to, as Haskellers say: Avoid success at all costs.” :-) Do you know many software in development for which there are plenty of books. Further the accusation of somes other that Hans is keeping information for his work and not documenting it is shocking me. Hans said that he did develop ConTeXt for *his* work and then opened it to others to benefit. And Hans is working for the ConTeXt users free and would prefer, I think, to use his secret!!? tools and go on for his real work. I also regret that the documentation is not complete and updated for mkiv, but mkiv is still in development even if it is operational (but Hans suggest to use mkii for professional work). Many people here who complain about documentation, also quickly say that they do not have time to write the asked for book: they have other things on the fire!! just... like Hans who is developing ConTeXt and do not have time writing documentation. What is more important: having a very good program and wait for its documentation, or a very good documentation and a buggy program??? Thanks to those who develop ConTeXt and answer the questions. Have a good Eastern time Alain ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Taco wrote: == Over the past four years, it has been next to impossible to get people interested in the reference manual project, not even for something as simple as reading the rewritten chapters and telling me what they think about it. Still, at the same time, complaints about the quality of the documentation have been a constant recurrence on the mailing list. I know the argument that beginners do not understand the source well enough to write a manual themselves is valid. But it is equally true that a person that *does* know the source enough to write the manual is not the correct person to proofread it. The near total lack of feedback had led me to believe that most complainers are in it just for the complaining. This is extremely demotivating, and so I have almost given up on doing documentation at all. I mean, what's the point if nobody really cares? There are many more interesting things to do in life than work for weeks on end on revising chapters nobody appears willing to read anyway. Best wishes, Taco Hi Taco Just a few words of encouragement :-) You can be assured that the reference manual is definitely not going unused. In my current quest to learn LuaTeX I refer to it almost daily. Just for the record, I work in scientific publishing but my interest in LuaTeX is purely and completely personal and not at all related to my day job. I too would be willing to help improve the manual, especially to help clarify issues which may be difficult for a beginner (like me!) to understand. I have some ideas for additional material which could help to link or bridge a number of key topics/concepts in order to better understand the architecture of LuaTeX. Sort of glue material. You are absolutely right to say that, as the person writing the code, it is extremely difficult to be the one solely responsible for preparing the manual. Apart from anything, with such a pround and in-depth knowledge of the innards of TeX it must be extremely difficult for you to step back and take the perspective of someone who is just stating out. And, frankly, writing documentation of any sort can be pretty dull. Furthermore, I think that we'd all benefit from you spending most of your time doing what you do best: cutting the code! As someone very new to LuaTeX, I also want to thank you again for the tremendous work you are doing. Do please contact me by personal e-mail to discuss the above in more detail, should you wish to do so. Warm wishes Graham ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
the 2 cents of a lurker :) if the knowledge is in my head, how come that wolfgang can answer most questions (and if he couldn't we'd have a real problem as at least i have not more time) Actually, I don't need so much documentation (well, it's never enough indeed), I'd say I need a tutorial to be able to know how to get documentation. Maybe how to browse code source. This is just my experience, for what it worth: I always find very good recipes, and fast help by this wonderful list on specific topics, but I don't feel to be able to really generalize my knowledge. It's easy to have good stuff with ConTeXt, much more complicated to make it do what you want. Maybe I just need some good lectures I missed. So maybe I need pointers. Best and thanks for your work -a- -- Andrea Valle -- CIRMA - DAMS Università degli Studi di Torino -- http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/ -- http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanderaalle/ -- http://www.youtube.com/user/vanderaalle -- andrea.va...@unito.it -- This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous. (Jeffrey 'The Dude' Lebowski) ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 14:45:51 +0200 Alain == Alain Delmotte espera...@swing.be wrote: Alain I think Taco didn't say *at all* that books are not important; Alain he just said that the books will not automatically increase the Alain use. So you think that having book(s) will leave the number of the ConText users on the same level or maybe decrease it? Alain What is more important: having a very good program and wait for Alain its documentation, or a very good documentation and a buggy Alain program??? (user) docs brings new users... (dev) docs brings new devs... (some) users become devs... (more) devs increases bus-factor... Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Wolfgang Schuster schuster.wolfg...@googlemail.com wrote: 2. What do you expect from a LuaLaTeX module? \usemodule[latex] and then all things in latex/base/* work ok (and only these ones). -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
luigi scarso wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Wolfgang Schuster schuster.wolfg...@googlemail.com wrote: 2. What do you expect from a LuaLaTeX module? \usemodule[latex] and then all things in latex/base/* work ok (and only these ones). Sounds like a good goal, but it will need a new maintainer, I think. However, Brooks seems to have left us, and I myself lost my interest in LaTeX compatibility (I wrote a fair bit of the module code, back when I had a commercial project that was originally latex and wanted to be able to cut and paste esp. the tabular material). Best wishes, Taco ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Taco Hoekwater t...@elvenkind.com wrote: luigi scarso wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Wolfgang Schuster schuster.wolfg...@googlemail.com wrote: 2. What do you expect from a LuaLaTeX module? \usemodule[latex] and then all things in latex/base/* work ok (and only these ones). Sounds like a good goal, but it will need a new maintainer, I think. However, Brooks seems to have left us, and I myself lost my interest in LaTeX compatibility (I wrote a fair bit of the module code, back when I had a commercial project that was originally latex and wanted to be able to cut and paste esp. the tabular material). The interesting part for me is that most of lua code is already here in some form. BTW luaLaTeX team is up and running these days, I'm following it because this year EUROTEX meeting will be in Italy where latex community is strong (almost like ConTeXt Italian community of course :-) ) and humanist-oriented . -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 15:01, schrieb luigi scarso: 2. What do you expect from a LuaLaTeX module? \usemodule[latex] and then all things in latex/base/* work ok (and only these ones). And what's with the Lua part you want? Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Wolfgang Schuster schuster.wolfg...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 03.04.10 15:01, schrieb luigi scarso: 2. What do you expect from a LuaLaTeX module? \usemodule[latex] and then all things in latex/base/* work ok (and only these ones). And what's with the Lua part you want? encoding font management name space to avoid macro collision -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 15:42, schrieb luigi scarso:
And what's with the Lua part you want?
encoding
\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc} - \enableregime[latin1]
and convert latex encoding names to context names but that's possible
with pure tex code
font management
i doubt latex’s and context’s system can be mixed (without ugly hacks) or
do you mean a higher system like fontspec and luaotfload
name space to avoid macro collision
tex macros or lua functions (can you be more concrete)?
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Wolfgang Schuster
schuster.wolfg...@googlemail.com wrote:
Am 03.04.10 15:42, schrieb luigi scarso:
And what's with the Lua part you want?
encoding
\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc} - \enableregime[latin1]
and convert latex encoding names to context names but that's possible with
pure tex code
font management
i doubt latex’s and context’s system can be mixed (without ugly hacks) or
do you mean a higher system like fontspec and luaotfload
these ones
name space to avoid macro collision
tex macros or lua functions (can you be more concrete)?
tex macros
--
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:53 PM, luigi scarso luigi.sca...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Wolfgang Schuster
\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc} - \enableregime[latin1]
encoding are gone
--
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 15:53, schrieb luigi scarso:
font managemen
i doubt latex’s and context’s system can be mixed (without ugly hacks) or
do you mean a higher system like fontspec and luaotfload
these ones
The code for luaotfload is taken from ConTeXt. A high level interface
like fontspec is not so hard (see simplefonts) and the information you
need for optical sized fonts (like Latin Modern or Minion Pro) are there
since November last year, e.g. this is the entry for LM Roman 12
{
designsize=120,
familyname=latinmodernroman,
filename=lmroman12-regular.otf,
fontname=lmroman12regular,
format=otf,
fullname=lmroman12regular,
maxsize=140,
minsize=110,
modifiers=12regular,
rawname=LMRoman12-Regular,
style=normal,
subfamily=regular,
variant=normal,
weight=normal,
width=normal,
},
name space to avoid macro collision
tex macros or lua functions (can you be more concrete)?
tex macros
Possible with internal commands but you can run into problems with
the user commands, a problem is also how LaTeX handle environments
For \begin{env} LaTeX expects a macro with the name \env end for
\end{env} a macro with the name \endenv.
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Hi! Gour a écrit : On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 14:45:51 +0200 Alain == Alain Delmotte espera...@swing.be wrote: Alain I think Taco didn't say *at all* that books are not important; Alain he just said that the books will not automatically increase the Alain use. So you think that having book(s) will leave the number of the ConText users on the same level or maybe decrease it? Can you read a sentence in full and not always cut out what doesn't interest you, or should I mark every word as important? I did write will not automatically, I didn't say that books will leave the number of users on the same level. Alain What is more important: having a very good program and wait for Alain its documentation, or a very good documentation and a buggy Alain program??? (user) docs brings new users... (dev) docs brings new devs... (some) users become devs... (more) devs increases bus-factor... Sure, once you have a full operational system! (user) docs brings new users who get problems from bugs or unfinished program... users drop out! No more devs, no more need for books!! And the publishers will thing like this! Alain Sincerely, Gour ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 15:56, schrieb luigi scarso:
\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc} - \enableregime[latin1]
encoding are gone
Most input encodings are supported in mkiv, only a few (e.g. cyr and
mac) are gone.
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Wolfgang Schuster
schuster.wolfg...@googlemail.com wrote:
The code for luaotfload is taken from ConTeXt. A high level interface
like fontspec is not so hard (see simplefonts)
yes, exactly what I'm thinking.
and the information you
need for optical sized fonts (like Latin Modern or Minion Pro) are there
since November last year, e.g. this is the entry for LM Roman 12
{
designsize=120,
familyname=latinmodernroman,
:
width=normal,
},
again yes
name space to avoid macro collision
Possible with internal commands but you can run into problems with
the user commands, a problem is also how LaTeX handle environments
For \begin{env} LaTeX expects a macro with the name \env end for
\end{env} a macro with the name \endenv.
Lua can be more effective than TeX here ?
encoding are gone
Most input encodings are supported in mkiv, only a few (e.g. cyr and mac)
are gone.
I care only unicode utf-8
--
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, Apr 03 2010, Michael Saunders wrote: That's the feeling I'm getting. I'm finding it hard to do a lot of basic things in Context. Maybe Context can do them and maybe it can't, but there is no way to find out. Could you please provide a typical example? Here are ten: Hello Michael, Thanks, I see clearer now (my understanding of basic was different...). 1. columns and marginal notes conflict: For some of the issues, it would be perhaps a good idea to make proper bug-reports (with minimal example of course). Cheers, Peter P.S.: Please consider fixing or changing your email client: it breaks the threads. -- Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 15:51, schrieb Michael Saunders:
2. leftward protrusion fails
\definefontfeature[...][default][...,protrusion=quality,expansion=quality]
\setupalign[hanging,hz]
\showgrid % or \showframe
There is no leftward protrusion at all. Everything on the left edge
is flush with the margin, even 'T' and 'J'. Similarly:
Don't know what you mean, works here.
\definefontfeature[default][default][protrusion=quality]
\usetypescript[modern]
\setupbodyfont[modern]
\showframe
\starttext
\startbuffer
«text»\par
„text“\par
T\par
J\par
\stopbuffer
\getbuffer\setupalign[hanging]\getbuffer
\stoptext
3. protrusion fails in footnotes:
Even on the right edge. Hz isn't happening in them either.
You have to enable it separate for notes.
\setupnote[footnote][align={normal,hanging}]
5. footnotes break between pages
How do I stop this?
No example, no help!
9. \raisebox?
What is the proper way to raise or lower a bit of text? I just spent
a lot of trial and error to find this:
\inframed[frame=off,offset=.5pt,height=17.3pt]{--}
to raise my en-dashes a little when \setff{ac} (for all caps) didn't
work with one font.
\raisebox{1ex}{–}
What should ConTeXt do when your font doesn't provide the allcaps feature.
10. problematic characters in grid typesetting.
Unless I set grid=verytolerant, my 'Q' knocks the next line down a
notch. Is there a better way to deal with this?
You can change the height/depth ratio of a line.
\setupinterlinespace[height=0.6,depth=0.4]
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Am 03.04.10 16:16, schrieb luigi scarso:
name space to avoid macro collision
Possible with internal commands but you can run into problems with
the user commands, a problem is also how LaTeX handle environments
For \begin{env} LaTeX expects a macro with the name \env end for
\end{env} a macro with the name \endenv.
Lua can be more effective than TeX here ?
Lua can't do anything with conflicts at the user level.
For a LaTeX module you can do something like
\begin{env} - \??lm:begin:env
\end{env} - \??lm:end:env
encoding are gone
Most input encodings are supported in mkiv, only a few (e.g. cyr and mac) are
gone.
I care only unicode utf-8
This wasn't the question ;)
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 3-4-2010 2:56, Gour wrote: On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 14:45:51 +0200 Alain == Alain Delmotteespera...@swing.be wrote: Alain I think Taco didn't say *at all* that books are not important; Alain he just said that the books will not automatically increase the Alain use. So you think that having book(s) will leave the number of the ConText users on the same level or maybe decrease it? i think it's hard to draw conclusions .. for instance if someone has to use tex once for a thesis he counts as user but will never use tex again probably i've seen my share of tex users and am pretty convinced that many users on this list are non standard in the sense that they like to make their own look and feel (contrary to using say latex for a one shot document in a prescribed style) .. in that sense i think that the crowd here is not the majority of tex users but definitely using it in advanced ways ... just look at mkiv ... i'm really pleased that so many use it already which helps us a lot with developing luatex as well Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 3-4-2010 3:42, luigi scarso wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Wolfgang Schuster schuster.wolfg...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 03.04.10 15:01, schrieb luigi scarso: 2. What do you expect from a LuaLaTeX module? \usemodule[latex] and then all things in latex/base/* work ok (and only these ones). And what's with the Lua part you want? encoding font management name space to avoid macro collision well, latex and context differ fundamentally and i'm not going to waste time on making things that can be shared (the font stuff is an exception and i only do the plain part; there might be more plain modules eventually); just look at the mp to pdf code ... you don't want to know what i had to do over time to keep it running in all macro packages and, as said the approach, interfaces, integratin of latex is so different that it makes no sense either; of course if i'm paid well i can consider making generic derivates but that's unlikely to happen my energy goes in context. (period) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 3-4-2010 3:49, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Am 03.04.10 15:42, schrieb luigi scarso:
And what's with the Lua part you want?
encoding
\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc} - \enableregime[latin1]
and convert latex encoding names to context names but that's possible
with pure tex code
who cares about that? will you then start using latex commands instead?
and i'm pretty sure that although it might sound similar that the
appeoached are different
font management
i doubt latex’s and context’s system can be mixed (without ugly hacks) or
do you mean a higher system like fontspec and luaotfload
name space to avoid macro collision
tex macros or lua functions (can you be more concrete)?
again a macro package specific problem; in context we have namespaces
already for a long time and it works ok
and believe me, there's not much to share .. it's way more easy for me
write code from scratch in a context way
Hans
-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Yet Another ConTeXt user context.u...@gmail.com wrote: Pick up a pen and go 'n write On any part of ConTeXt that you like A wiki article, a blog post, are good places to start People reading them will relish the knowledge it imparts You forgot to mention the part where someone said he was planning to do these things ;) I literally haven't had time to launch some real projects using ConTeXt. Everything so far has been ad-hoc environment setups that look relatively decent. My first step is to learn (and document that learning) a project using the structure presented here http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Project_structure . I'll keep you posted. Also, I want to say that this kind of anonymous poetry is, to me, proof-positive of an excellent community. ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 1:14 PM, John Haltiwanger john.haltiwan...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Yet Another ConTeXt user context.u...@gmail.com wrote: Pick up a pen and go 'n write On any part of ConTeXt that you like A wiki article, a blog post, are good places to start People reading them will relish the knowledge it imparts Or be brave and reach salvation Like John, use ConTeXt as a topic of your dissertation You forgot to mention the part where someone said he was planning to do these things ;) Corrected :D ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:58:01 -0600, Yet Another ConTeXt user context.u...@gmail.com wrote: (Actually when I was writing this chronology Irdis was thinking about a typographical ontology) Who is this Irdis? Anyway, this is beyond thinking about it ;-) Best wishes Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On 3-4-2010 8:13, Yet Another ConTeXt user wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 1:14 PM, John Haltiwanger john.haltiwan...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Yet Another ConTeXt user context.u...@gmail.com wrote: Pick up a pen and go 'n write On any part of ConTeXt that you like A wiki article, a blog post, are good places to start People reading them will relish the knowledge it imparts Or be brave and reach salvation Like John, use ConTeXt as a topic of your dissertation You forgot to mention the part where someone said he was planning to do these things ;) Corrected :D can you add the poem to the wiki? - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl wrote: On 3-4-2010 8:13, Yet Another ConTeXt user wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 1:14 PM, John Haltiwanger john.haltiwan...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Yet Another ConTeXt user context.u...@gmail.com wrote: Pick up a pen and go 'n write On any part of ConTeXt that you like A wiki article, a blog post, are good places to start People reading them will relish the knowledge it imparts Or be brave and reach salvation Like John, use ConTeXt as a topic of your dissertation You forgot to mention the part where someone said he was planning to do these things ;) Corrected :D can you add the poem to the wiki? Not me ... The wiki logs IP addresses. But other's should feel free to add it to the wiki. -- A ConTeXt user ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
2010/4/3 Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد isha...@colostate.edu: On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:58:01 -0600, Yet Another ConTeXt user context.u...@gmail.com wrote: (Actually when I was writing this chronology Irdis was thinking about a typographical ontology) Who is this Irdis? Oh, my heart now bleeds That I couldn't spell the name of Prof Hamid ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:13 PM, Yet Another ConTeXt user context.u...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 1:14 PM, John Haltiwanger john.haltiwan...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Yet Another ConTeXt user context.u...@gmail.com wrote: Pick up a pen and go 'n write On any part of ConTeXt that you like A wiki article, a blog post, are good places to start People reading them will relish the knowledge it imparts Or be brave and reach salvation Like John, use ConTeXt as a topic of your dissertation You forgot to mention the part where someone said he was planning to do these things ;) Corrected :D :D ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Saturday 03 April 2010 19:14:20 John Haltiwanger wrote: Also, I want to say that this kind of anonymous poetry is, to me, proof-positive of an excellent community. Beers all around (in Prague next September)! Alan ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:29:30 -0600, Yet Another ConTeXt user context.u...@gmail.com wrote: Who is this Irdis? Oh, my heart now bleeds That I couldn't spell the name of Prof Hamid Our anonymous YACU ran, slipped and had to skid, Neither did (s)he know how to rhyme with Hamid Accent in Hamid is on the first syllable, Otherwise pronouncing it will be untenable ;-) -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Alan BRASLAU alan.bras...@cea.fr wrote: On Saturday 03 April 2010 19:14:20 John Haltiwanger wrote: Also, I want to say that this kind of anonymous poetry is, to me, proof-positive of an excellent community. Beers all around (in Prague next September)! Ah, another good sign! ;) ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 16:03:34 +0200 Alain == Alain Delmotte espera...@swing.be wrote: Alain Can you read a sentence in full and not always cut out what Alain doesn't interest you, or should I mark every word as important? Excuse me...it's my mistake...I had to enclose my sentence in: \startirony ... \endirony :-) Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Dnia Sat, Apr 03, 2010 at 08:51:03AM -0500, Michael Saunders napisa#322;(a): Because I think it might be possible to produce better output with Context than with LaTeX (is this true?). My experience has been quite different from yours. I got up an running with LaTeX in a week (in 1995), found the documentation clear and almost any effect I wanted easy to achieve with well-documented packages that never seriously conflicted. This, on the other hand, is a nightmare. Yep. But when you actually run into one of these problems in LaTeX, you are often more or less left alone - unlike ConTeXt and this list. A few examples: tikz (for some obscure reason) breaks some functionality of empheq; align in intertext in align (yes, I needed something like this!) in AMS-LaTeX doesn't work; hacking the (otherwise excellent) amsrefs package (or any AMS-LaTeX package, for that matter) is a real pain, but sometimes you just need it (for example, amsthm may be a standard, but it just sucks in quite a few respects!). My general thought on this discussion: someone said why don't people switch from LaTeX to ConTeXt if ConTeXt is better?. The answer is obvious to me. First: 99% maths journals accept LaTeX, \epsilon of them (if any) accept ConTeXt. Second: people still use their LaTeX 2.09 preambles from the nineties, and spending even 30 minutes on learning a new package (or just not using $$ ... $$ but \[ ... \] or anything) seems impossible for them. Third: sadly, nearly anyone just does not care whether the results are beautiful or ugly; people (I'm talking about mathematicians now) use (La|AMS|Con)TeX(t) not because it is better than (word|OO), but because that is what journals want. Personally, I use both LaTeX and ConTeXt: LaTeX when I need something done quickly or when I want to share some code with others (who usually use LaTeX), and ConTeXt when I have some time and want to learn something new (or when I have a ready template which *just works(TM)*.) Cheers -- Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl) ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Gour a écrit : On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 16:03:34 +0200 Alain == Alain Delmotte espera...@swing.be wrote: Alain Can you read a sentence in full and not always cut out what Alain doesn't interest you, or should I mark every word as important? Excuse me...it's my mistake...I had to enclose my sentence in: \startirony ... \endirony :-) And I get an error for a \flameoff (without corresponding \flameon) Regards, Alain Sincerely, Gour ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
1. columns and marginal notes conflict:
For some of the issues, it would be perhaps a good idea to make proper
bug-reports (with minimal example of course).
In some other venue?
P.S.: Please consider fixing or changing your email client: it breaks the
threads.
Gmail. This is broken?
2. leftward protrusion fails
\definefontfeature[...][default][...,protrusion=quality,expansion=quality]
\setupalign[hanging,hz]
\showgrid % or \showframe
There is no leftward protrusion at all. Everything on the left edge
is flush with the margin, even 'T' and 'J'. Similarly:
Don't know what you mean, works here.
\definefontfeature[default][default][protrusion=quality]
\usetypescript[modern]
\setupbodyfont[modern]
The only difference I see is that I'm trying to use a different font
than modern:
\usetypescriptfile[type-garamond]
\starttypescript [MTbook]
\definetypeface[MTbook][rm][serif][garamondMD][optical]
...
\stoptypescript
\usetypescript[MTbook]
\setupalign[hanging,hz]
\setupbodyfont[MTbook,12pt]
So, leftward protrusion only works with Latin Modern?
3. protrusion fails in footnotes:
Even on the right edge. Hz isn't happening in them either.
You have to enable it separate for notes.
\setupnote[footnote][align={normal,hanging}]
I got rightward protrusion with that, but it looks like no hz.
Why are the key-values different? I also tried {quality,quality} and
got nothing.
5. footnotes break between pages
How do I stop this?
No example, no help!
Imagine:
one page full of lorem ipsum... containing \footnote{half-page of
lorem ipsum...}
The footnote will begin on page one, break halfway through, and
continue on the following page. I want to prevent footnotes from
breaking in this way.
If you really need to see 1.5 pages of concrete lorem ipsum posted
to understand the problem, I can provide it.
9. \raisebox?
What is the proper way to raise or lower a bit of text? I just spent
...
\raisebox{1ex}{?}
When I try:
\raisebox{1ex}{--}
Context stops on the error:
A box was supposed to be here
\raisebox{1ex}{
--}
What should ConTeXt do when your font doesn't provide the allcaps feature.
Some of the punctuation (e.g., hyphens, en- and em-dashes) should be
raised slightly and perhaps given a little extra spacing. The feature
is in my serif font, but not in my sans, hence my effort to correct
this.
10. problematic characters in grid typesetting.
Unless I set grid=verytolerant, my 'Q' knocks the next line down a
notch. Is there a better way to deal with this?
You can change the height/depth ratio of a line.
\setupinterlinespace[height=0.6,depth=0.4]
I must remember to put that convenient command before every majescule Q.
By the way---I am thrilled to hear of and very eager to see Idris's book!
But maybe a select audience of test-able volunteers will be the way to go...
I volunteer to be testable.
Yep. But when you actually run into one of these problems in LaTeX, you
are often more or less left alone - unlike ConTeXt and this list.
I'm pursuing it with the hope of more beautiful results, but I'm not
getting my problems solved here so far.
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Sat, 3 Apr 2010, Michael Saunders wrote:
1. columns and marginal notes conflict:
For some of the issues, it would be perhaps a good idea to make proper
bug-reports (with minimal example of course).
In some other venue?
In a separate thread, with a minimal example, that one can copy-paste and
see the error. Trying to guess what is wrong is difficult.
P.S.: Please consider fixing or changing your email client: it breaks the
threads.
Gmail. This is broken?
For some reason, none of your responses contain a References: header. So,
threading gets broken. Normally, gmail works fine, so I don't know why the
headers are beings stripped in this case.
2. leftward protrusion fails
\definefontfeature[...][default][...,protrusion=quality,expansion=quality]
\setupalign[hanging,hz]
\showgrid % or \showframe
There is no leftward protrusion at all. Everything on the left edge
is flush with the margin, even 'T' and 'J'. Similarly:
Don't know what you mean, works here.
\definefontfeature[default][default][protrusion=quality]
\usetypescript[modern]
\setupbodyfont[modern]
The only difference I see is that I'm trying to use a different font
than modern:
\usetypescriptfile[type-garamond]
\starttypescript [MTbook]
\definetypeface[MTbook][rm][serif][garamondMD][optical]
...
These details are important. Also a link to which Garamond you are using.
\stoptypescript
\usetypescript[MTbook]
\setupalign[hanging,hz]
\setupbodyfont[MTbook,12pt]
So, leftward protrusion only works with Latin Modern?
3. protrusion fails in footnotes:
Even on the right edge. Hz isn't happening in them either.
You have to enable it separate for notes.
\setupnote[footnote][align={normal,hanging}]
I got rightward protrusion with that, but it looks like no hz.
Why are the key-values different? I also tried {quality,quality} and
got nothing.
Again, a minimal example is needed.
5. footnotes break between pages
How do I stop this?
No example, no help!
Imagine:
one page full of lorem ipsum... containing \footnote{half-page of
lorem ipsum...}
The footnote will begin on page one, break halfway through, and
continue on the following page. I want to prevent footnotes from
breaking in this way.
If you really need to see 1.5 pages of concrete lorem ipsum posted
to understand the problem, I can provide it.
I don't know this
9. \raisebox?
What is the proper way to raise or lower a bit of text? I just spent
...
\raisebox{1ex}{?}
When I try:
\raisebox{1ex}{--}
Context stops on the error:
A box was supposed to be here
\raisebox{1ex}{
--}
Provide a box :-) \raisebox{1ex}{\hbox{--}} (untested)
Yep. But when you actually run into one of these problems in LaTeX, you
are often more or less left alone - unlike ConTeXt and this list.
I'm pursuing it with the hope of more beautiful results, but I'm not
getting my problems solved here so far.
http://www.tex.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html?label=minxampl
Aditya
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Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book: A summary
On Sat, 3 Apr 2010, Hans Hagen wrote: can you add the poem to the wiki? http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Humour ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Good news - if it isn't an April hoax. :-) Martin, you're so evil! Don't ever ruin my jokes again -- I didn't ruin yours 3 years again (the one where you announced XPSTeX, and said Microsoft would embed pdfTeX in Word). Fortunately people didn't pay too much attention to your mail :-] To all: it was, indeed, an April Fool's joke I suggested to Hans and Taco. Nobody has offered to pay anyone to write ConTeXt documentation yet, although several people have toyed with the idea of writing a ConTeXt book. But, even with the incentive of money, time and motivation are also a problem. And to the only one who offered help -- Luigi: gloria a te! It's heartwarming to see truly sincere support. I'm sorry I have nothing to provide for the moment, but maybe in the near future things will get moving? Have a nice Good Friday everyone, Arthur ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Arthur Reutenauer arthur.reutena...@normalesup.org wrote: Good news - if it isn't an April hoax. :-) Martin, you're so evil! Don't ever ruin my jokes again -- I didn't ruin yours 3 years again (the one where you announced XPSTeX, and said Microsoft would embed pdfTeX in Word). Fortunately people didn't pay too much attention to your mail :-] To all: it was, indeed, an April Fool's joke I suggested to Hans and Taco. Nobody has offered to pay anyone to write ConTeXt documentation yet, although several people have toyed with the idea of writing a ConTeXt book. But, even with the incentive of money, time and motivation are also a problem. And to the only one who offered help -- Luigi: gloria a te! It's heartwarming to see truly sincere support. I'm sorry I have nothing to provide for the moment, but maybe in the near future things will get moving? Have a nice Good Friday everyone, So let's see this year what I have won; Taco: ++ beers (one for last year...) Hans: + beer Arthur: + beer Martin: 1/2 beer (* I * remember it) They are 4.5 beers for me --- a good motive to come bachoTeX...hmm.. -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 2-4-2010 11:57, luigi scarso wrote: On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Arthur Reutenauer arthur.reutena...@normalesup.org wrote: Good news - if it isn't an April hoax. :-) Martin, you're so evil! Don't ever ruin my jokes again -- I didn't ruin yours 3 years again (the one where you announced XPSTeX, and said Microsoft would embed pdfTeX in Word). Fortunately people didn't pay too much attention to your mail :-] To all: it was, indeed, an April Fool's joke I suggested to Hans and Taco. Nobody has offered to pay anyone to write ConTeXt documentation yet, although several people have toyed with the idea of writing a ConTeXt book. But, even with the incentive of money, time and motivation are also a problem. And to the only one who offered help -- Luigi: gloria a te! It's heartwarming to see truly sincere support. I'm sorry I have nothing to provide for the moment, but maybe in the near future things will get moving? Have a nice Good Friday everyone, So let's see this year what I have won; Taco: ++ beers (one for last year...) Hans: + beer Arthur: + beer Martin: 1/2 beer (* I * remember it) but that's a german size which is twice the dutch so ... They are 4.5 beers for me --- a good motive to come bachoTeX...hmm.. 5 then ... i'd better let you update the modules documentation then before you start drinking (there will be a current next week, so you have plenty of time) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Ah, I was going to respond in an offlist email to Arthur that I am available for help. My masters thesis, though evolved considerably since I first submitted a vague description some months ago, is still significantly focused on ConTeXt. I will necessarily be documenting the means by which I overcome certain obstacles, achieve certain effects, etc. This will appear through blog posts, and in the end may or may not be typeset into a kind of Excursion-style PDF. All this discussion of poor documentation at times brings fear into my enthusiasm for this thesis. On the one hand I do not wish to rely on mk.II, and on the other I've heard people say that any projects they begin in mk.IV end up being written for mk.II for stability purposes. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Anyway, just wanted to say that there was to be at least one more individual offering help. Too bad it turns out to be a joke :/ Regards, John Haltiwanger On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl wrote: On 2-4-2010 11:57, luigi scarso wrote: On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Arthur Reutenauer arthur.reutena...@normalesup.org wrote: Good news - if it isn't an April hoax. :-) Martin, you're so evil! Don't ever ruin my jokes again -- I didn't ruin yours 3 years again (the one where you announced XPSTeX, and said Microsoft would embed pdfTeX in Word). Fortunately people didn't pay too much attention to your mail :-] To all: it was, indeed, an April Fool's joke I suggested to Hans and Taco. Nobody has offered to pay anyone to write ConTeXt documentation yet, although several people have toyed with the idea of writing a ConTeXt book. But, even with the incentive of money, time and motivation are also a problem. And to the only one who offered help -- Luigi: gloria a te! It's heartwarming to see truly sincere support. I'm sorry I have nothing to provide for the moment, but maybe in the near future things will get moving? Have a nice Good Friday everyone, So let's see this year what I have won; Taco: ++ beers (one for last year...) Hans: + beer Arthur: + beer Martin: 1/2 beer (* I * remember it) but that's a german size which is twice the dutch so ... They are 4.5 beers for me --- a good motive to come bachoTeX...hmm.. 5 then ... i'd better let you update the modules documentation then before you start drinking (there will be a current next week, so you have plenty of time) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 2-4-2010 13:18, John Haltiwanger wrote: Ah, I was going to respond in an offlist email to Arthur that I am available for help. My masters thesis, though evolved considerably since I first submitted a vague description some months ago, is still significantly focused on ConTeXt. I will necessarily be documenting the means by which I overcome certain obstacles, achieve certain effects, etc. This will appear through blog posts, and in the end may or may not be typeset into a kind of Excursion-style PDF. All this discussion of poor documentation at times brings fear into my enthusiasm for this thesis. On the one hand I do not wish to rely on mk.II, and on the other I've heard people say that any projects they begin in mk.IV end up being written for mk.II for stability purposes. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. well, i use mkiv exclusively so that might be a sign that it's not that bad; the main issue is to keep mkiv and luatex in sync Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl wrote: well, i use mkiv exclusively so that might be a sign that it's not that bad; the main issue is to keep mkiv and luatex in sync Good to know :) I would much prefer mkiv as well, as luatex seems much easier to grok than TeX. I have the luck to be entering typographical programming at a new stage. To what degree can luatex be relied on to accomplish all that TeX macros can? Does certain functionality still require TeX code? Re: documentation, Perhaps a thing to do in the meantime is start a section on the wiki where we do a command by command description of what different macros accomplish? (Apologies if I'm mincing terminologies here). Starting with the undocumented ones, but then working back and providing a bit of insight into use cases, such as what 'middle' may mean in a given instance, or that it's the best/required option (this point is still fuzzy to me). The command ref is just not insightful at my level of TeX. The thesis case study is concurrent typesetting of itself in HTML, ODT, and ConTeXt. Part of the idea is to interrogate different capabilities and comparing the processes between the formats for accomplishing the same thing (toggle-able sidenotes instead of footnote/endnote citations in ConTeXt vs HTML, for instance). So in that sense there should be more tutorial style content available for the wiki. I'll be pestering the list for help in those areas, I'm sure. ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
John Haltiwanger wrote: Re: documentation, Perhaps a thing to do in the meantime is start a section on the wiki where we do a command by command description of what different macros accomplish? As of right now, Patrick has overstepped his self-imposed deadline for merging the texshow-web data into the wiki by 38 hours and 23 minutes. :) The main idea behind that planned move is that the wiki is a much friendlier editing environment than texshow-web, thereby increasing the chances of people contributing better descriptions and examples. Best wishes, Taco ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
As of right now, Patrick has overstepped his self-imposed deadline for merging the texshow-web data into the wiki by 38 hours and 23 minutes. :) :-) Actually my load average goes down from 2.3 to 1.0 currently and probably down to 0.5 next week, so I hope not to push my deadline by more then 14 days. Patrick ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 2-4-2010 14:20, John Haltiwanger wrote: On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Hans Hagenpra...@wxs.nl wrote: well, i use mkiv exclusively so that might be a sign that it's not that bad; the main issue is to keep mkiv and luatex in sync Good to know :) I would much prefer mkiv as well, as luatex seems much easier to grok than TeX. I have the luck to be entering typographical programming at a new stage. To what degree can luatex be relied on to accomplish all that TeX macros can? Does certain functionality still require TeX code? the same and more, it's still tex but we can now extend using lua so we can go beyond what normal tex can do Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Yes, that's indeed good to know. My MAIN problem with mkiv is that I can't get interaction bars working. I posted two basic setups a while ago, and while they work fine in mkii, they fail in mkiv. Never got a response ... Matthias On Apr 2, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Hans Hagen wrote: On 2-4-2010 14:20, John Haltiwanger wrote: On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Hans Hagenpra...@wxs.nl wrote: well, i use mkiv exclusively so that might be a sign that it's not that bad; the main issue is to keep mkiv and luatex in sync Good to know :) I would much prefer mkiv as well, as luatex seems much easier to grok than TeX. I have the luck to be entering typographical programming at a new stage. To what degree can luatex be relied on to accomplish all that TeX macros can? Does certain functionality still require TeX code? the same and more, it's still tex but we can now extend using lua so we can go beyond what normal tex can do Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
As a tech writer for almost 30 years, and someone just getting into Context, i am sorry to hear that was a joke! I would have loved to have been able to contribute a little to such a good effort! Russ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 17:32:50 -0500 Russell == Russell Urquhart russurquha...@verizon.net wrote: Russell As a tech writer for almost 30 years, and someone just getting Russell into Context, i am sorry to hear that was a joke! Just see the sad affair of Context's docs so that the 'book' is topic for the April's 1st joke. :-( If it wouldn't be so sad, it would be funny... At the moment I'm looking to learn jQuery and, rest assured, there are several books to choose from. Being a 'book' guy, it's hard to find any significant project without either up-to-date manual or some books available, and I definitely consider that ConTeXt could be one. However, when I ask somewhere about the support for ConTeXt I'm getting answers like: This is the project which has only 5 or 6 users. Who actually uses it? Use LaTeX! :-( This raises another concern and that is: what is the future of ConTeXt is Hans get hit by the bus? (Of course, we even do not want to think about it...) Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
2010/4/1 Arthur Reutenauer arthur.reutena...@normalesup.org: This is to inform you that's I've been commissioned by Hans and Taco to work on a manual for ConTeXt, under their supervision, during the next 12 months. After the recent discussions about documentation on this list, they have agreed that the lack of a complete manual was getting more and more serious, and they have decided to fix this by delegating this task. Good news - if it isn't an April hoax. :-) Best Martin ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Thu, 1 Apr 2010, Martin Schröder wrote: Good news - if it isn't an April hoax. :-) and a good one, one you _want_ to believe...___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
a disposizione. On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Arthur Reutenauer arthur.reutena...@normalesup.org wrote: Hello, This is to inform you that's I've been commissioned by Hans and Taco to work on a manual for ConTeXt, under their supervision, during the next 12 months. After the recent discussions about documentation on this list, they have agreed that the lack of a complete manual was getting more and more serious, and they have decided to fix this by delegating this task. The project will be financed full-time by Pragma and Bittext, their respective companies, and we're seeking other sources that would allow us to pay another writer. Anyone volunteering on behalf of her / his company, or of her / his own initiative, please contact us! Over the next weeks I will collect opinions from users about their respective priorities, and what they (you!) think the book should look like. Cheers, Hans (pragma at wxs do nl) Taco (taco at elvenkind dot com) Arthur (arthur dot reutenauer at normalesup dot org) ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Martin Schröder mar...@oneiros.de wrote: Good news - if it isn't an April hoax. :-) if so another beer for me -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
Le 01 avril 2010 à 07:08, Arthur Reutenauer a écrit: Hello, This is to inform you that's I've been commissioned by Hans and Taco to work on a manual for ConTeXt, under their supervision, during the next 12 months. After the recent discussions about documentation on this list, they have agreed that the lack of a complete manual was getting more and more serious, and they have decided to fix this by delegating this task. The project will be financed full-time by Pragma and Bittext, their respective companies, and we're seeking other sources that would allow us to pay another writer. Anyone volunteering on behalf of her / his company, or of her / his own initiative, please contact us! Over the next weeks I will collect opinions from users about their respective priorities, and what they (you!) think the book should look like. Do you plan to work on a French version as a basis and translate it afterward? I would definitely like to get involved in such a project -- as a volunteer (proof read or the like...). Bye, -- Sébastien Mengin Édition et logiciels libres Mise en page avec LaTeX http://edilibre.net ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 1-4-2010 19:40, Sebastien Mengin wrote: Do you plan to work on a French version as a basis and translate it afterward? that's indeed a problem. as there is some european funding involved as well as from somefrench academy it has to be in french but once the content is there arthur will also do the translation (i still remember eurotex in brest ... all in french because of some rules) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
This is to inform you that's I've been commissioned by Hans and Taco to work on a manual for ConTeXt, under their supervision, during the next 12 months. After the recent discussions about documentation on this list, they have agreed that the lack of a complete manual was getting more and more serious, and they have decided to fix this by delegating this task. This is brilliant news! Perhaps additional funds to support this could be raised by a Paypal donations account? Or, should the manual be sufficiently stable at some point to sell hard copies via digital printing. Sure, we can all print the PDFs but I, for one, am buried in piles of unwieldy printouts and prefer a proper bound copy, any day. Printing large ConTeXt docs would be heavy duty work for most home printers and use lots of ink, so bound hard copies would be quite an economic alternative, in my opinion. Maybe it's my age but I really don't like reading copious amounts of documentation on screen, no matter how carefully the PDFs are designed. A great piece of news indeed. Warm regards Graham ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On Thursday 01 April 2010 19:43:51 Hans Hagen wrote: On 1-4-2010 19:40, Sebastien Mengin wrote: Do you plan to work on a French version as a basis and translate it afterward? that's indeed a problem. as there is some european funding involved as well as from somefrench academy it has to be in french but once the content is there arthur will also do the translation (i still remember eurotex in brest ... all in french because of some rules) Hans That was the early effects of some un-enforceable law carrying the name of Mr. All-good (law Toubon). I recently organized an international summer school in Corsica (nice place to hold a summer school) and indeed was contacted by some obscure association with the aim of defending the French language. You see, our website was in English (remember, *international* summer school) and we were reported by one of their members. (They had no shame to say so... kind of reminds one not the very best episodes of recent French history.) So I looked into the law and followed it to the letter: I offered to the one French national teacher (out of 12) the possibility to give his course in French. Of course he would not think of it. And I made sure that we had a translation device on hand (a dictionary). So I suggest that Arthur write the book in French and maybe I could translate it into Dutch. Alan ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
On 1-4-2010 21:38, Alan BRASLAU wrote: So I looked into the law and followed it to the letter: I offered to the one French national teacher (out of 12) the possibility to give his course in French. Of course he would not think of it. And I made sure that we had a translation device on hand (a dictionary). Ah ... translators ... I remember that we had quite some fun when the translator started to make jokes (of couse only for the non french who had headsets) ... some on this list who were present might remember the Sorry folks, i cannot translate this yet as i have no clue where this gusy is heading and there is sign that he will finish his sentence in time. Of course he got an applause afterwards. Okay, but in general I do have good memories of meetings in France. Especially one Gutenberg meeting in a castle: 50% talks and 50% very good eating. And of course the famous nice 16th aniversay meeting ... So I suggest that Arthur write the book in French and maybe I could translate it into Dutch. Ah, great! Because I wanted to give Slovian a try. Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
