Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Randy Little]

What? Me? huh?  Yeah.  I'm just saying that someone built a pipeline for a
reason and in an email from a VFX side guy we don't have clue one what the
post houses reason is. Might be valid with some esoteric weird reason.  I
mean company 3 where about the biggest not doing color right people I ever
dealt with circa 2008-2009.  Think anything we told them they cared $.02
about?  We just gave them whatever color weird world files.  in the end it
was all ok, acceptable ish and not worth the fight.  :-)

Randy S. Little
http://www.rslittle.com/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2325729/



On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Andrew Mumford <a_mumf...@mac.com> wrote:

> Well do we agree that there is no more data in a log encoded half float
> exr vs a normally encoded linear exr ?
>
> I thought that was a point you made Randy or did I misunderstand.
>
> And as to making "assumptions" about clients expertise or lack of re color
> pipelines my experience of late and to a large extent for the last 30 or so
> years tells me that not only do the "clients", to the extent that you can
> think of them as one person of one mind, not only do they not know what
> they are talking about to any great degree - but that they rely on us to
> speak up when they are wrong.
>
> I owned a Ford Escort turbo at one time and I was very "satisfied" with
> that at the time - now I know a bit more, I think it's ok to try and bring
> the clients along for the journey so things can become better optimized for
> all of us.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 29, 2017, at 16:23, Randy Little <randyslit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yup Howard is 100% on target with his comment.
>
> Randy S. Little
> http://www.rslittle.com/
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2325729/
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Howard Jones <how...@axis-vfx.com> wrote:
>
>> But you are making a series of assumptions about their post pipeline. It
>> doesn't stop with us, it stops at delivery.
>>
>> And it's an assumption that the client doesn't know what they are talking
>> about or haven't tested and been satisfied with the colour pipe they are
>> going down.
>>
>> IMHO it's about fitting in with a larger post production pipe than just
>> the VFX.
>>
>> Howard
>>
>> On 29 Mar 2017, at 5:40 pm, Andrew Mumford <a_mumf...@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> IMNSHO this is how "we" got into this goddamn cluster with color in
>> general in the brave new world of digital color ... by just letting clients
>> have whatever they want just because they ask for it and we as an industry,
>> fall over the apple cart trying not to upset anyone and break the cart
>> anyway.
>>
>> If they must have it then they get it but at least tell them that "to my
>> best knowledge" this will lose some information and send them both dpx &
>> "client" exr & "linear" extra for one shot with overbrights and darks and
>> ask them to verify that's what they want.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2017, at 20:46, J Bills <djbi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Agreed.  If they want it, that's what they get!  Nothing wrong with
>> diplomatically flagging it as "not what we usually do" and sending a test
>> frame to ask if it's what they were expecting before you run the whole lot.
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* nuke-users-boun...@support.thefoundry.co.uk <
>> nuke-users-boun...@support.thefoundry.co.uk> on behalf of Howard Jones <
>> how...@axis-vfx.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 21, 2017 1:35 AM
>> *To:* Nuke user discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space
>>
>> Assuming they haven't made a mistake I would give them what they asked
>> for.
>>
>> For one show I'm delivering linear DPX.
>>
>> Howard
>>
>> > On 20 Mar 2017, at 8:13 pm, chris <ze.m...@gmx.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 3/20/17 at 8:48 PM, dekekinc...@gmail.com (Deke Kincaid) wrote:
>> >> Many facilities deliver EXR files with DI mattes.  This is quite common
>> >> these days especially since Baselight and other DI products now
>> properly
>> >> read multi channel exr files.
>> >
>> > ah, good to know this gets more common. usually I had to deliver masks
>> as extra sequences which got a bit messy.
>> > now the question is, do we render those masks with log encoding ;)
>> >
>> > chris
>> >
>> > ___
>> &g

Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Andrew Mumford]

Well do we agree that there is no more data in a log encoded half float exr vs 
a normally encoded linear exr ?

I thought that was a point you made Randy or did I misunderstand.

And as to making "assumptions" about clients expertise or lack of re color 
pipelines my experience of late and to a large extent for the last 30 or so 
years tells me that not only do the "clients", to the extent that you can think 
of them as one person of one mind, not only do they not know what they are 
talking about to any great degree - but that they rely on us to speak up when 
they are wrong.

I owned a Ford Escort turbo at one time and I was very "satisfied" with that at 
the time - now I know a bit more, I think it's ok to try and bring the clients 
along for the journey so things can become better optimized for all of us.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 29, 2017, at 16:23, Randy Little <randyslit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yup Howard is 100% on target with his comment.  
> 
> Randy S. Little
> http://www.rslittle.com/
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2325729/
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Howard Jones <how...@axis-vfx.com> wrote:
>> But you are making a series of assumptions about their post pipeline. It 
>> doesn't stop with us, it stops at delivery. 
>> 
>> And it's an assumption that the client doesn't know what they are talking 
>> about or haven't tested and been satisfied with the colour pipe they are 
>> going down. 
>> 
>> IMHO it's about fitting in with a larger post production pipe than just the 
>> VFX. 
>> 
>> Howard
>> 
>>> On 29 Mar 2017, at 5:40 pm, Andrew Mumford <a_mumf...@mac.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> IMNSHO this is how "we" got into this goddamn cluster with color in general 
>>> in the brave new world of digital color ... by just letting clients have 
>>> whatever they want just because they ask for it and we as an industry, fall 
>>> over the apple cart trying not to upset anyone and break the cart anyway.
>>> 
>>> If they must have it then they get it but at least tell them that "to my 
>>> best knowledge" this will lose some information and send them both dpx & 
>>> "client" exr & "linear" extra for one shot with overbrights and darks and 
>>> ask them to verify that's what they want.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 23, 2017, at 20:46, J Bills <djbi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Agreed.  If they want it, that's what they get!  Nothing wrong with 
>>>> diplomatically flagging it as "not what we usually do" and sending a test 
>>>> frame to ask if it's what they were expecting before you run the whole lot.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: nuke-users-boun...@support.thefoundry.co.uk 
>>>> <nuke-users-boun...@support.thefoundry.co.uk> on behalf of Howard Jones 
>>>> <how...@axis-vfx.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 1:35 AM
>>>> To: Nuke user discussion
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space
>>>>  
>>>> Assuming they haven't made a mistake I would give them what they asked 
>>>> for. 
>>>> 
>>>> For one show I'm delivering linear DPX. 
>>>> 
>>>> Howard
>>>> 
>>>> > On 20 Mar 2017, at 8:13 pm, chris <ze.m...@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>> > 
>>>> >> On 3/20/17 at 8:48 PM, dekekinc...@gmail.com (Deke Kincaid) wrote:
>>>> >> Many facilities deliver EXR files with DI mattes.  This is quite common
>>>> >> these days especially since Baselight and other DI products now properly
>>>> >> read multi channel exr files.
>>>> > 
>>>> > ah, good to know this gets more common. usually I had to deliver masks 
>>>> > as extra sequences which got a bit messy.
>>>> > now the question is, do we render those masks with log encoding ;)
>>>> > 
>>>> > chris
>>>> > 
>>>> > ___
>>>> > Nuke-users mailing list
>>>> > Nuke-users@support.thefoundry.co.uk, http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/
>>>> 
>>>> The Foundry Community :: Forum
>>>> forums.thefoundry.co.uk
>>>> Marketplace Forum for individual sales of goods and services related to 
>>>> Foundry products. The Foundry is not responsible for transactions in this 

Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Randy Little]

Yup Howard is 100% on target with his comment.

Randy S. Little
http://www.rslittle.com/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2325729/



On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Howard Jones <how...@axis-vfx.com> wrote:

> But you are making a series of assumptions about their post pipeline. It
> doesn't stop with us, it stops at delivery.
>
> And it's an assumption that the client doesn't know what they are talking
> about or haven't tested and been satisfied with the colour pipe they are
> going down.
>
> IMHO it's about fitting in with a larger post production pipe than just
> the VFX.
>
> Howard
>
> On 29 Mar 2017, at 5:40 pm, Andrew Mumford <a_mumf...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> IMNSHO this is how "we" got into this goddamn cluster with color in
> general in the brave new world of digital color ... by just letting clients
> have whatever they want just because they ask for it and we as an industry,
> fall over the apple cart trying not to upset anyone and break the cart
> anyway.
>
> If they must have it then they get it but at least tell them that "to my
> best knowledge" this will lose some information and send them both dpx &
> "client" exr & "linear" extra for one shot with overbrights and darks and
> ask them to verify that's what they want.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 23, 2017, at 20:46, J Bills <djbi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Agreed.  If they want it, that's what they get!  Nothing wrong with
> diplomatically flagging it as "not what we usually do" and sending a test
> frame to ask if it's what they were expecting before you run the whole lot.
>
>
> --
> *From:* nuke-users-boun...@support.thefoundry.co.uk <
> nuke-users-boun...@support.thefoundry.co.uk> on behalf of Howard Jones <
> how...@axis-vfx.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 21, 2017 1:35 AM
> *To:* Nuke user discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space
>
> Assuming they haven't made a mistake I would give them what they asked
> for.
>
> For one show I'm delivering linear DPX.
>
> Howard
>
> > On 20 Mar 2017, at 8:13 pm, chris <ze.m...@gmx.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 3/20/17 at 8:48 PM, dekekinc...@gmail.com (Deke Kincaid) wrote:
> >> Many facilities deliver EXR files with DI mattes.  This is quite common
> >> these days especially since Baselight and other DI products now properly
> >> read multi channel exr files.
> >
> > ah, good to know this gets more common. usually I had to deliver masks
> as extra sequences which got a bit messy.
> > now the question is, do we render those masks with log encoding ;)
> >
> > chris
> >
> > ___
> > Nuke-users mailing list
> > Nuke-users@support.thefoundry.co.uk, http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/
> <http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/>
> The Foundry Community :: Forum <http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/>
> forums.thefoundry.co.uk
> Marketplace Forum for individual sales of goods and services related to
> Foundry products. The Foundry is not responsible for transactions in this
> forum, it is offered ...
>
> > http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-users
> Nuke-users Info Page - The Foundry Visionmongers
> <http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-users>
> support.thefoundry.co.uk
> This nuke-users mailing list is designed to encourage discussion, dialog,
> sharing, and collaboration of all things pertinent to Nuke, the Nuke user
> community, and The ...
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> *A X I S V F X*
>
> The Bottle Yard Studios
>
> Whitchurch Lane
>
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>
>
>
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> forums.thefoundry.co.uk
> Marketplace Forum for individual sales of goods and services related to
> Foundry products. The Foundry is not responsible for transactions in this
> forum, it is offered ...
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> This nuke-users mailing list is designed to encourage discussion, dialog,
> sharing, and collaboration of all things pertinent to Nuke, the Nuke user
> community, and The ...
>
> __

Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Howard Jones]

But you are making a series of assumptions about their post pipeline. It 
doesn't stop with us, it stops at delivery. 

And it's an assumption that the client doesn't know what they are talking about 
or haven't tested and been satisfied with the colour pipe they are going down. 

IMHO it's about fitting in with a larger post production pipe than just the 
VFX. 

Howard

> On 29 Mar 2017, at 5:40 pm, Andrew Mumford <a_mumf...@mac.com> wrote:
> 
> IMNSHO this is how "we" got into this goddamn cluster with color in general 
> in the brave new world of digital color ... by just letting clients have 
> whatever they want just because they ask for it and we as an industry, fall 
> over the apple cart trying not to upset anyone and break the cart anyway.
> 
> If they must have it then they get it but at least tell them that "to my best 
> knowledge" this will lose some information and send them both dpx & "client" 
> exr & "linear" extra for one shot with overbrights and darks and ask them to 
> verify that's what they want.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2017, at 20:46, J Bills <djbi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Agreed.  If they want it, that's what they get!  Nothing wrong with 
>> diplomatically flagging it as "not what we usually do" and sending a test 
>> frame to ask if it's what they were expecting before you run the whole lot.
>> 
>> 
>> From: nuke-users-boun...@support.thefoundry.co.uk 
>> <nuke-users-boun...@support.thefoundry.co.uk> on behalf of Howard Jones 
>> <how...@axis-vfx.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 1:35 AM
>> To: Nuke user discussion
>> Subject: Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space
>>  
>> Assuming they haven't made a mistake I would give them what they asked for. 
>> 
>> For one show I'm delivering linear DPX. 
>> 
>> Howard
>> 
>> > On 20 Mar 2017, at 8:13 pm, chris <ze.m...@gmx.net> wrote:
>> > 
>> >> On 3/20/17 at 8:48 PM, dekekinc...@gmail.com (Deke Kincaid) wrote:
>> >> Many facilities deliver EXR files with DI mattes.  This is quite common
>> >> these days especially since Baselight and other DI products now properly
>> >> read multi channel exr files.
>> > 
>> > ah, good to know this gets more common. usually I had to deliver masks as 
>> > extra sequences which got a bit messy.
>> > now the question is, do we render those masks with log encoding ;)
>> > 
>> > chris
>> > 
>> > ___
>> > Nuke-users mailing list
>> > Nuke-users@support.thefoundry.co.uk, http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/
>> 
>> The Foundry Community :: Forum
>> forums.thefoundry.co.uk
>> Marketplace Forum for individual sales of goods and services related to 
>> Foundry products. The Foundry is not responsible for transactions in this 
>> forum, it is offered ...
>> 
>> > http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-users
>> Nuke-users Info Page - The Foundry Visionmongers
>> support.thefoundry.co.uk
>> This nuke-users mailing list is designed to encourage discussion, dialog, 
>> sharing, and collaboration of all things pertinent to Nuke, the Nuke user 
>> community, and The ...
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *A X I S V F X*
>> 
>> The Bottle Yard Studios
>> 
>> Whitchurch Lane
>> 
>> Bristol BS14 0BH
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> axis-vfx.com
>> ___
>> Nuke-users mailing list
>> Nuke-users@support.thefoundry.co.uk, http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/
>> 
>> The Foundry Community :: Forum
>> forums.thefoundry.co.uk
>> Marketplace Forum for individual sales of goods and services related to 
>> Foundry products. The Foundry is not responsible for transactions in this 
>> forum, it is offered ...
>> 
>> http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-users
>> Nuke-users Info Page - The Foundry Visionmongers
>> support.thefoundry.co.uk
>> This nuke-users mailing list is designed to encourage discussion, dialog, 
>> sharing, and collaboration of all things pertinent to Nuke, the Nuke user 
>> community, and The ...
>> 
>> ___
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The Bottle Yard Studios

Whitchurch Lane

Bristol BS14 0BH

 

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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Andrew Mumford]

IMNSHO this is how "we" got into this goddamn cluster with color in general in 
the brave new world of digital color ... by just letting clients have whatever 
they want just because they ask for it and we as an industry, fall over the 
apple cart trying not to upset anyone and break the cart anyway.

If they must have it then they get it but at least tell them that "to my best 
knowledge" this will lose some information and send them both dpx & "client" 
exr & "linear" extra for one shot with overbrights and darks and ask them to 
verify that's what they want.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 23, 2017, at 20:46, J Bills <djbi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Agreed.  If they want it, that's what they get!  Nothing wrong with 
> diplomatically flagging it as "not what we usually do" and sending a test 
> frame to ask if it's what they were expecting before you run the whole lot.
> 
> 
> From: nuke-users-boun...@support.thefoundry.co.uk 
> <nuke-users-boun...@support.thefoundry.co.uk> on behalf of Howard Jones 
> <how...@axis-vfx.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 1:35 AM
> To: Nuke user discussion
> Subject: Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space
>  
> Assuming they haven't made a mistake I would give them what they asked for. 
> 
> For one show I'm delivering linear DPX. 
> 
> Howard
> 
> > On 20 Mar 2017, at 8:13 pm, chris <ze.m...@gmx.net> wrote:
> > 
> >> On 3/20/17 at 8:48 PM, dekekinc...@gmail.com (Deke Kincaid) wrote:
> >> Many facilities deliver EXR files with DI mattes.  This is quite common
> >> these days especially since Baselight and other DI products now properly
> >> read multi channel exr files.
> > 
> > ah, good to know this gets more common. usually I had to deliver masks as 
> > extra sequences which got a bit messy.
> > now the question is, do we render those masks with log encoding ;)
> > 
> > chris
> > 
> > ___
> > Nuke-users mailing list
> > Nuke-users@support.thefoundry.co.uk, http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/
> 
> The Foundry Community :: Forum
> forums.thefoundry.co.uk
> Marketplace Forum for individual sales of goods and services related to 
> Foundry products. The Foundry is not responsible for transactions in this 
> forum, it is offered ...
> 
> > http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-users
> Nuke-users Info Page - The Foundry Visionmongers
> support.thefoundry.co.uk
> This nuke-users mailing list is designed to encourage discussion, dialog, 
> sharing, and collaboration of all things pertinent to Nuke, the Nuke user 
> community, and The ...
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> *A X I S V F X*
> 
> The Bottle Yard Studios
> 
> Whitchurch Lane
> 
> Bristol BS14 0BH
> 
>  
> 
> axis-vfx.com
> ___
> Nuke-users mailing list
> Nuke-users@support.thefoundry.co.uk, http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/
> 
> The Foundry Community :: Forum
> forums.thefoundry.co.uk
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> Foundry products. The Foundry is not responsible for transactions in this 
> forum, it is offered ...
> 
> http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-users
> Nuke-users Info Page - The Foundry Visionmongers
> support.thefoundry.co.uk
> This nuke-users mailing list is designed to encourage discussion, dialog, 
> sharing, and collaboration of all things pertinent to Nuke, the Nuke user 
> community, and The ...
> 
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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[J Bills]

Agreed.  If they want it, that's what they get!  Nothing wrong with 
diplomatically flagging it as "not what we usually do" and sending a test frame 
to ask if it's what they were expecting before you run the whole lot.



From: nuke-users-boun...@support.thefoundry.co.uk 
<nuke-users-boun...@support.thefoundry.co.uk> on behalf of Howard Jones 
<how...@axis-vfx.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 1:35 AM
To: Nuke user discussion
Subject: Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

Assuming they haven't made a mistake I would give them what they asked for.

For one show I'm delivering linear DPX.

Howard

> On 20 Mar 2017, at 8:13 pm, chris <ze.m...@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/20/17 at 8:48 PM, dekekinc...@gmail.com (Deke Kincaid) wrote:
>> Many facilities deliver EXR files with DI mattes.  This is quite common
>> these days especially since Baselight and other DI products now properly
>> read multi channel exr files.
>
> ah, good to know this gets more common. usually I had to deliver masks as 
> extra sequences which got a bit messy.
> now the question is, do we render those masks with log encoding ;)
>
> chris
>
> ___
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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[chris]

On 3/20/17 at 8:48 PM, dekekinc...@gmail.com (Deke Kincaid) wrote:

Many facilities deliver EXR files with DI mattes.  This is quite common
these days especially since Baselight and other DI products now properly
read multi channel exr files.


ah, good to know this gets more common. usually I had to deliver 
masks as extra sequences which got a bit messy.

now the question is, do we render those masks with log encoding ;)

chris

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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Deke Kincaid]

Many facilities deliver EXR files with DI mattes.  This is quite common
these days especially since Baselight and other DI products now properly
read multi channel exr files.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:56 AM, chris  wrote:

> On 3/20/17 at 5:41 PM, subscripti...@badgerfx.com (Igor Majdandzic) wrote:
>
>> It's for grading...
>>
>
> well, for grading I'd usually prefer log DPX since it uses less processing
> power for decoding then EXR (and thus smoother playback) and usually you
> only have to deliver RGB anyway.
>
> but it really comes down to whether they trust your expertise or if they
> are convinced they know better then you. and as said, if done properly then
> both will give identical results.
>
> bests
> chris
>
>
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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[chris]

On 3/20/17 at 5:41 PM, subscripti...@badgerfx.com (Igor 
Majdandzic) wrote:

It's for grading...


well, for grading I'd usually prefer log DPX since it uses less 
processing power for decoding then EXR (and thus smoother 
playback) and usually you only have to deliver RGB anyway.


but it really comes down to whether they trust your expertise or 
if they are convinced they know better then you. and as said, if 
done properly then both will give identical results.


bests
chris

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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[chris]

hi Igor,

yeah, sounds like somebody on the other end is a bit confused 
and knows just enough to be dangerous.


as you say, saving EXR with log encoding hardly makes any sense 
and only adds possibilities for errors. so you have two options:
try to explain to them that linear (float) EXR are just fine, or 
just accept their premise, but make sure that you have the same 
log decoding as their encoding since there are quite a few 
variants by now (otherwise you'll risk negative black values and 
other unpleasant stuff).


btw, applying a (cineon) log curve to linear data still wouldn't 
necessarily get everything in the 0-1 range since extreme 
highlights would still be over 1 value in float (or get clipped 
to 1 in DPX).


bests
chris



On 3/20/17 at 5:26 PM, subscripti...@badgerfx.com (Igor 
Majdandzic) wrote:



Hey,
A company wants that we supply exrs in log because it would 
have more latitude to work with. Does that make sense? Using 
the curve for log brings everything in 0-1 range, so nothing 
would have been gained using exrs, right? I know both are 
containers, but for me linear exrs or dpx in log would be the 
way to go. Everything else seems weird and disorienting. Is 
there one argument for log exrs, that I just don't know about.


Cheers,
Igor


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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Deke Kincaid]

.03% data loss.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Randy Little 
wrote:

> The advantage of a log-encoded exr is that its smaller than a log DPX
> file.  All other weirdness aside.  and if you give them a half float exr in
> log you are for sure losing data in the shadows.  YES YOU ARE.
>
> Randy S. Little
> http://www.rslittle.com/
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2325729/
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Igor Majdandzic <
> subscripti...@badgerfx.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, in the end they decide. But I am with Deke and I will stick to my
>> plan and try to convince them. This is still my area of expertise, so I've
>> got a saying in that as well.
>>
>> Thanks guys for all the input and the collective brain.
>>
>> 
>> Send from the Road
>>
>> Igor Majdandzic
>> Compositor, TD, Supervisor
>> @Chimney Frankfurt
>>
>>
>> Am 20.03.2017 6:46 nachm. schrieb Marten Blumen :
>>
>> depends on the client really; if a customer wants a hamburger with no
>> bread, meat and fillings - then it may be better to just smile and give it
>> to them :)
>>
>> On 21 March 2017 at 06:26, Deke Kincaid  wrote:
>>
>> I would stay away.  Tell them you can give them log dpx files.  Giving
>> log exr files just sounds like asking for trouble down the line as they are
>> nonstandard and not trackable as to the colorspace at a later date.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Igor Majdandzic <
>> subscripti...@badgerfx.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hey,
>> A company wants that we supply exrs in log because it would have more
>> latitude to work with. Does that make sense? Using the curve for log brings
>> everything in 0-1 range, so nothing would have been gained using exrs,
>> right? I know both are containers, but for me linear exrs or dpx in log
>> would be the way to go. Everything else seems weird and disorienting. Is
>> there one argument for log exrs, that I just don't know about.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Igor
>>
>> 
>> Send from the Road
>>
>> Igor Majdandzic
>> Compositor, TD, Supervisor
>> @Chimney Frankfurt
>>
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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Kevin Wheatley]

Indeed if your log goes 0-1.0 in 16 bit half format you have ~12bits
of information capacity, this should compress smaller than a true
12bit DPX as most apps store 12 bits into 16bits when writing DPX. If
you have a 16 bit DPX it can theoretically store more precision than
the half format for the same 0-1.0 range.

Kevin
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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Randy Little]

The advantage of a log-encoded exr is that its smaller than a log DPX
file.  All other weirdness aside.  and if you give them a half float exr in
log you are for sure losing data in the shadows.  YES YOU ARE.

Randy S. Little
http://www.rslittle.com/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2325729/



On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Igor Majdandzic  wrote:

> Yeah, in the end they decide. But I am with Deke and I will stick to my
> plan and try to convince them. This is still my area of expertise, so I've
> got a saying in that as well.
>
> Thanks guys for all the input and the collective brain.
>
> 
> Send from the Road
>
> Igor Majdandzic
> Compositor, TD, Supervisor
> @Chimney Frankfurt
>
>
> Am 20.03.2017 6:46 nachm. schrieb Marten Blumen :
>
> depends on the client really; if a customer wants a hamburger with no
> bread, meat and fillings - then it may be better to just smile and give it
> to them :)
>
> On 21 March 2017 at 06:26, Deke Kincaid  wrote:
>
> I would stay away.  Tell them you can give them log dpx files.  Giving log
> exr files just sounds like asking for trouble down the line as they are
> nonstandard and not trackable as to the colorspace at a later date.
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Igor Majdandzic <
> subscripti...@badgerfx.com> wrote:
>
> Hey,
> A company wants that we supply exrs in log because it would have more
> latitude to work with. Does that make sense? Using the curve for log brings
> everything in 0-1 range, so nothing would have been gained using exrs,
> right? I know both are containers, but for me linear exrs or dpx in log
> would be the way to go. Everything else seems weird and disorienting. Is
> there one argument for log exrs, that I just don't know about.
>
> Cheers,
> Igor
>
> 
> Send from the Road
>
> Igor Majdandzic
> Compositor, TD, Supervisor
> @Chimney Frankfurt
>
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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Igor Majdandzic]

Yeah, in the end they decide. But I am with Deke and I will stick to my plan and try to convince them. This is still my area of expertise, so I've got a saying in that as well.Thanks guys for all the input and the collective brain.Send from the RoadIgor MajdandzicCompositor, TD, Supervisor@Chimney FrankfurtAm 20.03.2017 6:46 nachm. schrieb Marten Blumen :depends on the client really; if a customer wants a hamburger with no bread, meat and fillings - then it may be better to just smile and give it to them :)On 21 March 2017 at 06:26, Deke Kincaid  wrote:I would stay away.  Tell them you can give them log dpx files.  Giving log exr files just sounds like asking for trouble down the line as they are nonstandard and not trackable as to the colorspace at a later date.On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Igor Majdandzic  wrote:Hey,A company wants that we supply exrs in log because it would have more latitude to work with. Does that make sense? Using the curve for log brings everything in 0-1 range, so nothing would have been gained using exrs, right? I know both are containers, but for me linear exrs or dpx in log would be the way to go. Everything else seems weird and disorienting. Is there one argument for log exrs, that I just don't know about.Cheers,IgorSend from the RoadIgor MajdandzicCompositor, TD, Supervisor@Chimney Frankfurt___
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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Marten Blumen]

depends on the client really; if a customer wants a hamburger with no
bread, meat and fillings - then it may be better to just smile and give it
to them :)

On 21 March 2017 at 06:26, Deke Kincaid  wrote:

> I would stay away.  Tell them you can give them log dpx files.  Giving log
> exr files just sounds like asking for trouble down the line as they are
> nonstandard and not trackable as to the colorspace at a later date.
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Igor Majdandzic <
> subscripti...@badgerfx.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>> A company wants that we supply exrs in log because it would have more
>> latitude to work with. Does that make sense? Using the curve for log brings
>> everything in 0-1 range, so nothing would have been gained using exrs,
>> right? I know both are containers, but for me linear exrs or dpx in log
>> would be the way to go. Everything else seems weird and disorienting. Is
>> there one argument for log exrs, that I just don't know about.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Igor
>>
>> 
>> Send from the Road
>>
>> Igor Majdandzic
>> Compositor, TD, Supervisor
>> @Chimney Frankfurt
>>
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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Deke Kincaid]

I would stay away.  Tell them you can give them log dpx files.  Giving log
exr files just sounds like asking for trouble down the line as they are
nonstandard and not trackable as to the colorspace at a later date.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Igor Majdandzic  wrote:

> Hey,
> A company wants that we supply exrs in log because it would have more
> latitude to work with. Does that make sense? Using the curve for log brings
> everything in 0-1 range, so nothing would have been gained using exrs,
> right? I know both are containers, but for me linear exrs or dpx in log
> would be the way to go. Everything else seems weird and disorienting. Is
> there one argument for log exrs, that I just don't know about.
>
> Cheers,
> Igor
>
> 
> Send from the Road
>
> Igor Majdandzic
> Compositor, TD, Supervisor
> @Chimney Frankfurt
>
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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Joseph Goldstone]

Almost any color corrector I can think of that can take OpenEXR will move it 
Ito a logarithmic working space of some sort, because grading in linear space 
would be a nightmare. That’s why ACES, for example, has ACEScc and the more 
recent ACEScct as grading spaces. To make an analogy, if you had a linear-space 
radio volume knob in your car, moving it from “off” by an eighth of a turn 
would perceptually take you to near full-volume. Thus, your radio knob is 
implemented in such a way as to “grade” the volume of your audio 
logarithmically and make volume adjustment more comfortable. Color grading is 
done in log spaces for comparable reasons.

Don’t bake in the log transformation of the data; you’ll just confuse things. 
OpenEXR (as was EXR before it) has always been for scene-referred, 
radiometrically linear data.

On Mar 20, 2017, at 9:41 AM, Igor Majdandzic 
> wrote:

It's for grading...


Send from the Road

Igor Majdandzic
Compositor, TD, Supervisor
@Chimney Frankfurt

Am 20.03.2017 5:37 nachm. schrieb Randy Little 
>:
Yeah do whatever they want.  exr in float linear is as much dynamic range as 
one can have.  making it log is because someone there doesn't really know what 
they are talking about from the CG side.

Randy S. Little
http://www.rslittle.com/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2325729/



On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Marten Blumen 
> wrote:
Maybe they are referring to floating point being naturally log in it's 
precision, or, some effects look better if processed in log instead of linear, 
apart from that log is a colour space compression technique only afaik.

On 21 March 2017 at 05:26, Igor Majdandzic 
> wrote:
Hey,
A company wants that we supply exrs in log because it would have more latitude 
to work with. Does that make sense? Using the curve for log brings everything 
in 0-1 range, so nothing would have been gained using exrs, right? I know both 
are containers, but for me linear exrs or dpx in log would be the way to go. 
Everything else seems weird and disorienting. Is there one argument for log 
exrs, that I just don't know about.

Cheers,
Igor


Send from the Road

Igor Majdandzic
Compositor, TD, Supervisor
@Chimney Frankfurt

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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Randy Little]

and they don't want a dpx file?



Randy S. Little
http://www.rslittle.com/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2325729/



On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:09 PM, Igor Majdandzic  wrote:

> What I don't like about it is that mixing of standards. When I get an exr
> I like to assume a linear color space.
> And the dpx with 16bit should have enough data to work with.
>
> 
> Send from the Road
>
> Igor Majdandzic
> Compositor, TD, Supervisor
> @Chimney Frankfurt
>
> Am 20.03.2017 5:59 nachm. schrieb Marten Blumen :
>
> the good part is there is so much dynamic range in exrs that compressing
> to log probably makes no difference and would suit their pipeline.
>
> On 21 March 2017 at 05:41, Igor Majdandzic 
> wrote:
>
> It's for grading...
>
> 
> Send from the Road
>
> Igor Majdandzic
> Compositor, TD, Supervisor
> @Chimney Frankfurt
>
> Am 20.03.2017 5:37 nachm. schrieb Randy Little :
>
> Yeah do whatever they want.  exr in float linear is as much dynamic range
> as one can have.  making it log is because someone there doesn't really
> know what they are talking about from the CG side.
>
> Randy S. Little
> http://www.rslittle.com/
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2325729/
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Marten Blumen  wrote:
>
> Maybe they are referring to floating point being naturally log in it's
> precision, or, some effects look better if processed in log instead of
> linear, apart from that log is a colour space compression technique only
> afaik.
>
> On 21 March 2017 at 05:26, Igor Majdandzic 
> wrote:
>
> Hey,
> A company wants that we supply exrs in log because it would have more
> latitude to work with. Does that make sense? Using the curve for log brings
> everything in 0-1 range, so nothing would have been gained using exrs,
> right? I know both are containers, but for me linear exrs or dpx in log
> would be the way to go. Everything else seems weird and disorienting. Is
> there one argument for log exrs, that I just don't know about.
>
> Cheers,
> Igor
>
> 
> Send from the Road
>
> Igor Majdandzic
> Compositor, TD, Supervisor
> @Chimney Frankfurt
>
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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Igor Majdandzic]

What I don't like about it is that mixing of standards. When I get an exr I like to assume a linear color space.And the dpx with 16bit should have enough data to work with.Send from the RoadIgor MajdandzicCompositor, TD, Supervisor@Chimney FrankfurtAm 20.03.2017 5:59 nachm. schrieb Marten Blumen :the good part is there is so much dynamic range in exrs that compressing to log probably makes no difference and would suit their pipeline.On 21 March 2017 at 05:41, Igor Majdandzic  wrote:It's for grading...Send from the RoadIgor MajdandzicCompositor, TD, Supervisor@Chimney FrankfurtAm 20.03.2017 5:37 nachm. schrieb Randy Little :Yeah do whatever they want.  exr in float linear is as much dynamic range as one can have.  making it log is because someone there doesn't really know what they are talking about from the CG side. Randy S. Littlehttp://www.rslittle.com/http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2325729/
On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Marten Blumen  wrote:Maybe they are referring to floating point being naturally log in it's precision, or, some effects look better if processed in log instead of linear, apart from that log is a colour space compression technique only afaik.On 21 March 2017 at 05:26, Igor Majdandzic  wrote:Hey,A company wants that we supply exrs in log because it would have more latitude to work with. Does that make sense? Using the curve for log brings everything in 0-1 range, so nothing would have been gained using exrs, right? I know both are containers, but for me linear exrs or dpx in log would be the way to go. Everything else seems weird and disorienting. Is there one argument for log exrs, that I just don't know about.Cheers,IgorSend from the RoadIgor MajdandzicCompositor, TD, Supervisor@Chimney Frankfurt___
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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Marten Blumen]

the good part is there is so much dynamic range in exrs that compressing to
log probably makes no difference and would suit their pipeline.

On 21 March 2017 at 05:41, Igor Majdandzic 
wrote:

> It's for grading...
>
> 
> Send from the Road
>
> Igor Majdandzic
> Compositor, TD, Supervisor
> @Chimney Frankfurt
>
> Am 20.03.2017 5:37 nachm. schrieb Randy Little :
>
> Yeah do whatever they want.  exr in float linear is as much dynamic range
> as one can have.  making it log is because someone there doesn't really
> know what they are talking about from the CG side.
>
> Randy S. Little
> http://www.rslittle.com/
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2325729/
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Marten Blumen  wrote:
>
> Maybe they are referring to floating point being naturally log in it's
> precision, or, some effects look better if processed in log instead of
> linear, apart from that log is a colour space compression technique only
> afaik.
>
> On 21 March 2017 at 05:26, Igor Majdandzic 
> wrote:
>
> Hey,
> A company wants that we supply exrs in log because it would have more
> latitude to work with. Does that make sense? Using the curve for log brings
> everything in 0-1 range, so nothing would have been gained using exrs,
> right? I know both are containers, but for me linear exrs or dpx in log
> would be the way to go. Everything else seems weird and disorienting. Is
> there one argument for log exrs, that I just don't know about.
>
> Cheers,
> Igor
>
> 
> Send from the Road
>
> Igor Majdandzic
> Compositor, TD, Supervisor
> @Chimney Frankfurt
>
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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Igor Majdandzic]

It's for grading...Send from the RoadIgor MajdandzicCompositor, TD, Supervisor@Chimney FrankfurtAm 20.03.2017 5:37 nachm. schrieb Randy Little :Yeah do whatever they want.  exr in float linear is as much dynamic range as one can have.  making it log is because someone there doesn't really know what they are talking about from the CG side. Randy S. Littlehttp://www.rslittle.com/http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2325729/
On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Marten Blumen  wrote:Maybe they are referring to floating point being naturally log in it's precision, or, some effects look better if processed in log instead of linear, apart from that log is a colour space compression technique only afaik.On 21 March 2017 at 05:26, Igor Majdandzic  wrote:Hey,A company wants that we supply exrs in log because it would have more latitude to work with. Does that make sense? Using the curve for log brings everything in 0-1 range, so nothing would have been gained using exrs, right? I know both are containers, but for me linear exrs or dpx in log would be the way to go. Everything else seems weird and disorienting. Is there one argument for log exrs, that I just don't know about.Cheers,IgorSend from the RoadIgor MajdandzicCompositor, TD, Supervisor@Chimney Frankfurt___
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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Randy Little]

Yeah do whatever they want.  exr in float linear is as much dynamic range
as one can have.  making it log is because someone there doesn't really
know what they are talking about from the CG side.

Randy S. Little
http://www.rslittle.com/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2325729/



On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Marten Blumen  wrote:

> Maybe they are referring to floating point being naturally log in it's
> precision, or, some effects look better if processed in log instead of
> linear, apart from that log is a colour space compression technique only
> afaik.
>
> On 21 March 2017 at 05:26, Igor Majdandzic 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>> A company wants that we supply exrs in log because it would have more
>> latitude to work with. Does that make sense? Using the curve for log brings
>> everything in 0-1 range, so nothing would have been gained using exrs,
>> right? I know both are containers, but for me linear exrs or dpx in log
>> would be the way to go. Everything else seems weird and disorienting. Is
>> there one argument for log exrs, that I just don't know about.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Igor
>>
>> 
>> Send from the Road
>>
>> Igor Majdandzic
>> Compositor, TD, Supervisor
>> @Chimney Frankfurt
>>
>> ___
>> Nuke-users mailing list
>> Nuke-users@support.thefoundry.co.uk, http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/
>> http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-users
>>
>
>
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Re: [Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Marten Blumen]

Maybe they are referring to floating point being naturally log in it's
precision, or, some effects look better if processed in log instead of
linear, apart from that log is a colour space compression technique only
afaik.

On 21 March 2017 at 05:26, Igor Majdandzic 
wrote:

> Hey,
> A company wants that we supply exrs in log because it would have more
> latitude to work with. Does that make sense? Using the curve for log brings
> everything in 0-1 range, so nothing would have been gained using exrs,
> right? I know both are containers, but for me linear exrs or dpx in log
> would be the way to go. Everything else seems weird and disorienting. Is
> there one argument for log exrs, that I just don't know about.
>
> Cheers,
> Igor
>
> 
> Send from the Road
>
> Igor Majdandzic
> Compositor, TD, Supervisor
> @Chimney Frankfurt
>
> ___
> Nuke-users mailing list
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> http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-users
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[Nuke-users] Ext with log color space

[Igor Majdandzic]

Hey,A company wants that we supply exrs in log because it would have more latitude to work with. Does that make sense? Using the curve for log brings everything in 0-1 range, so nothing would have been gained using exrs, right? I know both are containers, but for me linear exrs or dpx in log would be the way to go. Everything else seems weird and disorienting. Is there one argument for log exrs, that I just don't know about.Cheers,IgorSend from the RoadIgor MajdandzicCompositor, TD, Supervisor@Chimney Frankfurt___
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