Re: [Numpy-discussion] Calling routines from a Fortran library using python

2010-02-23 Thread Nils Wagner
On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:18:23 +0900
  David Cournapeau courn...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Nils Wagner
 nwag...@iam.uni-stuttgart.de wrote:
 

 ar x test.a
 gfortran -shared *.o -o libtest.so -lg2c

 to build a shared library. The additional option -lg2c 
was
 necessary due to an undefined symbol: s_cmp
 
 You should avoid the -lg2c option at any cost if 
compiling with
 gfortran. I am afraid that you got a library compiled 
with g77. If
 that's the case, you should use g77 and not gfortran. 
You cannot mix
 libraries built with one with libraries with another.
 

 Now I am able to load the shared library

 from ctypes import *
 my_lib = CDLL('test.so')

 What are the next steps to use the library functions
 within python ?
 
 You use it as you would use a C library:
 
 http://python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/tutorial.html
 
 But the fortran ABI, at least for code built with g77 
and gfortran,
 pass everything by reference. To make sure to pass the 
right
 arguments, I strongly suggest to double check with the 
.h you
 received.
 
 cheers,
 
 David
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Just to play it safe

Consider

extern void dsio(int* const,const char* const,
 int* const,const size_t);
extern void dsrhed  (const int* const,const int* 
const,void* const,
 const int* const,const int* const,int* const,
 int* const,int* const,int* const,int* const,
 int* const,int* const,int* const);
  


from ctypes import *
my_lib = CDLL('libtest.so')

How do I call the functions within python
I mean what arguments are needed ?

my_lib.dsio()

my_lib.dsrhed(   )

Thank you very much for your help.

Cheers,
Nils
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[Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread Alan G Isaac
This behavior does not match the current documentation.

 np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.5)
0.5
 np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.4)
0.48796883601707464

I assume this behavior is intentional and it is
the documentation that is in error (for the case
when high=low)?

fwiw,
Alan Isaac
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[Numpy-discussion] double free or corruption after calling a Slicot routine wrapped with f2py

2010-02-23 Thread enrico avventi
hello,

first of all, as i'm new here, i would like to greet everyone in the list and 
thank the developers of numpy/scipy. i'm transitioning my work from matlab to 
python and this software is very helpfull indeed.

the reason i'm writing is that i got to a stumbling block last week. i tried 
wrote some wrappers of Slicot routines aided by f2py that i keep on github 
(http://github.com/avventi/Slycot).
the latest routine i tried to wrap, SB02OD, make python to crash with the glibc 
error double free or corruption. precisely i get this error if the wrapper 
slycot.sb02od is called within a method, i.e

Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jan 24 2010, 14:53:14) 
[GCC 4.3.2] on linux2
Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
 import slycot
 slycot.examples.sb02od_example()
--- Example for sb01od ...
The solution X is
[[ 1.  0.]
 [ 0.  2.]]
rcond = 0.632455532034
*** glibc detected *** python: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x082ec3b8 ***

as you can see the routine does indeed return the correct output but make 
python crash afterwards. On the other hand if i type ieach step interactively

Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jan 24 2010, 14:53:14) 
[GCC 4.3.2] on linux2
Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
 from numpy import *
 import slycot
 A = array([[0,1],[0,0]])
 B = array([[0],[1]])
 C = array([[1,0],[0,1],[0,0]])
 Q = dot(C.T,C)
 R = zeros((1,1))
 L = zeros((2,1))
 out = slycot.sb02od('D',2,1,3,A,B,Q,R,L)
 out[1]
array([[ 1.,  0.],
   [ 0.,  2.]])
 out[0]
0.63245553203367577
 out = slycot.sb02od('D',2,1,3,A,B,Q,R,L)
*** glibc detected *** python: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x0832b428 ***

it works the first time but not the second. i tried Debian lenny 32/64bit and a 
virtualized Fedora 12 32bit and the error persists.

do you have any ideas why this happens or where should i look to start solving 
it?

thanks in advance.
regards,

/Enrico
 


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[Numpy-discussion] SciPy2010 Call for Papers

2010-02-23 Thread Stéfan van der Walt
==
SciPy 2010 Call for Papers
==

SciPy 2010, the 9th Python in Science Conference, will be held from
June 28th - July 3rd, 2010 in Austin, Texas.

At this conference, novel applications and breakthroughs made in the
pursuit of science using Python are presented.  Attended by leading
figures from both academia and industry, it is an excellent
opportunity to experience the cutting edge of scientific software
development.

The conference is preceded by two days of paid tutorials, during which
community experts provide training on several scientific Python
packages.

We invite you to take part by submitting a talk abstract on the
conference website at:

http://conference.scipy.org

Talk/Paper Submission
=

We solicit talks and accompanying papers (either formal academic or
magazine-style articles) that discuss topics regarding scientific
computing using Python, including applications, teaching, development
and research.  Papers are included in the peer-reviewed conference
proceedings, published online.

Please note that submissions primarily aimed at the promotion of a
commercial product or service will not be considered.

Important dates for authors include:

 * 11 April: Talk abstracts due
 * 20 April: Notification of acceptance
 * 13 June: Papers due
 * 15 August: Publication of proceedings

Further detail will be made available on http://conference.scipy.org

Conference Dates


 * Friday, 10 May: Early registration ends
 * Monday-Tuesday, 28-29 June: Tutorials
 * Wednesday-Thursday, June 30-July 1: Conference
 * Friday-Saturday, July 2-3: Coding Sprints

Executive Committee
===

 * Conference: Jarrod Millman  Eric Jones
 * Program: Stefan van der Walt  Ondrej Certik
 * Student Sponsorship: Travis Oliphant

For more information on Python, visit http://www.python.org.
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread David Goldsmith
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Alan G Isaac ais...@american.edu wrote:

 This behavior does not match the current documentation.

  np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.5)
 0.5
  np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.4)
 0.48796883601707464

 I assume this behavior is intentional and it is


Why do you assume that?

DG


 the documentation that is in error (for the case
 when high=low)?

 fwiw,
 Alan Isaac
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread Robert Kern
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 08:21, Alan G Isaac ais...@american.edu wrote:
 This behavior does not match the current documentation.

 np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.5)
 0.5
 np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.4)
 0.48796883601707464

 I assume this behavior is intentional and it is
 the documentation that is in error (for the case
 when high=low)?

Well, the documentation just doesn't really address high=low. In any
case, the claim that the results are in [low, high) is wrong thanks to
floating point arithmetic. It has exactly the same issues as the
standard library's random.uniform() and should be updated to reflect
that fact:


random.uniform(a, b)
  Return a random floating point number N such that a = N = b for a
= b and b = N = a for b  a.

  The end-point value b may or may not be included in the range
depending on floating-point rounding in the equation a + (b-a) *
random().


We should address the high  low case in the documentation because
we're not going to bother raising an exception when high  low.

-- 
Robert Kern

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as
though it had an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread David Goldsmith
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 08:21, Alan G Isaac ais...@american.edu wrote:
  This behavior does not match the current documentation.
 
  np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.5)
  0.5
  np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.4)
  0.48796883601707464
 
  I assume this behavior is intentional and it is
  the documentation that is in error (for the case
  when high=low)?

 Well, the documentation just doesn't really address high=low. In any
 case, the claim that the results are in [low, high) is wrong thanks to
 floating point arithmetic. It has exactly the same issues as the
 standard library's random.uniform() and should be updated to reflect
 that fact:

 random.uniform(a, b)
  Return a random floating point number N such that a = N = b for a
 = b and b = N = a for b  a.

  The end-point value b may or may not be included in the range
 depending on floating-point rounding in the equation a + (b-a) *
 random().


 We should address the high  low case in the documentation because
 we're not going to bother raising an exception when high  low.


Well, an exception isn't the only option (e.g., it could return NaN), but
does everyone agree (or at least not block) that this is acceptable
behavior?  IMO, if this function is going to allow high  low, then the doc
should _also_ be _quite_ clear that if this feature might mess up the
user's program in some way, then the user will have to implement their own
safeguard against such parameters being fed to the monster. ;-)

DG



 --
 Robert Kern

 I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
 enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as
 though it had an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco
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[Numpy-discussion] distutils problem with NumPy-1.4 Py-2.7a3 (Snow Leopard)

2010-02-23 Thread Tom Loredo

Hi-

I've been testing Python-2.7a3 on Mac OS 10.6.2.  NumPy-1.4.0 will
not install; it appears something has changed within distutils that
breaks it:

$ export MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.6
$ export CFLAGS=-arch x86_64
$ export FFLAGS=-m64
$ export LDFLAGS=-Wall -undefined dynamic_lookup -bundle -arch x86_64
$ time python setup.py build --fcompiler=gnu95
Running from numpy source directory.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File setup.py, line 187, in module
setup_package()
  File setup.py, line 155, in setup_package
from numpy.distutils.core import setup
  File 
/Volumes/System/Users/loredo/Downloads/numpy-1.4.0-OSX/numpy/distutils/__init__.py,
 line 6, in module
import ccompiler
  File 
/Volumes/System/Users/loredo/Downloads/numpy-1.4.0-OSX/numpy/distutils/ccompiler.py,
 line 17, in module
_old_init_posix = distutils.sysconfig._init_posix
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '_init_posix'

I realize NumPy makes no claim to be compatible with 2.7(alpha); I'm
reporting this as a heads-up.

-Tom

PS:  For testing purposes:  To get nose to install for 2.7a3, 
you need to use the current hg branch.  The last release 
(including the out-of-date dev branch on PyPI) is not
compatible with 2.7 changes to unittest internals.




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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread Robert Kern
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 13:05, David Goldsmith d.l.goldsm...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 08:21, Alan G Isaac ais...@american.edu wrote:
  This behavior does not match the current documentation.
 
  np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.5)
  0.5
  np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.4)
  0.48796883601707464
 
  I assume this behavior is intentional and it is
  the documentation that is in error (for the case
  when high=low)?

 Well, the documentation just doesn't really address high=low. In any
 case, the claim that the results are in [low, high) is wrong thanks to
 floating point arithmetic. It has exactly the same issues as the
 standard library's random.uniform() and should be updated to reflect
 that fact:

 random.uniform(a, b)
  Return a random floating point number N such that a = N = b for a
 = b and b = N = a for b  a.

  The end-point value b may or may not be included in the range
 depending on floating-point rounding in the equation a + (b-a) *
 random().


 We should address the high  low case in the documentation because
 we're not going to bother raising an exception when high  low.

 Well, an exception isn't the only option (e.g., it could return NaN),

shudder

 but
 does everyone agree (or at least not block) that this is acceptable
 behavior?

It's a useful feature. Whenever there is a low/high pair of arguments,
a user frequently has to write code like so:

  low, high = min(a, b), max(a, b)

just to satisfy the argument spec of the function. This function does
not really require knowing which is which for its implementation, so
requiring them to be one way is simply arbitrariness for the sake of
arbitrariness.

 IMO, if this function is going to allow high  low, then the doc
 should _also_ be _quite_ clear that if this feature might mess up the
 user's program in some way, then the user will have to implement their own
 safeguard against such parameters being fed to the monster. ;-)

So do it. But please, don't use frightening terminology like you are
here. Just state the fact clearly and succinctly as in the
random.uniform() docs.

-- 
Robert Kern

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as
though it had an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] distutils problem with NumPy-1.4 Py-2.7a3 (Snow Leopard)

2010-02-23 Thread Bruce Southey
On 02/23/2010 01:18 PM, Tom Loredo wrote:
 Hi-

 I've been testing Python-2.7a3 on Mac OS 10.6.2.  NumPy-1.4.0 will
 not install; it appears something has changed within distutils that
 breaks it:

 $ export MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.6
 $ export CFLAGS=-arch x86_64
 $ export FFLAGS=-m64
 $ export LDFLAGS=-Wall -undefined dynamic_lookup -bundle -arch x86_64
 $ time python setup.py build --fcompiler=gnu95
 Running from numpy source directory.
 Traceback (most recent call last):
File setup.py, line 187, inmodule
  setup_package()
File setup.py, line 155, in setup_package
  from numpy.distutils.core import setup
File 
 /Volumes/System/Users/loredo/Downloads/numpy-1.4.0-OSX/numpy/distutils/__init__.py,
  line 6, inmodule
  import ccompiler
File 
 /Volumes/System/Users/loredo/Downloads/numpy-1.4.0-OSX/numpy/distutils/ccompiler.py,
  line 17, inmodule
  _old_init_posix = distutils.sysconfig._init_posix
 AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '_init_posix'

 I realize NumPy makes no claim to be compatible with 2.7(alpha); I'm
 reporting this as a heads-up.

 -Tom

 PS:  For testing purposes:  To get nose to install for 2.7a3,
 you need to use the current hg branch.  The last release
 (including the out-of-date dev branch on PyPI) is not
 compatible with 2.7 changes to unittest internals.




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Hi,
I think it is Python related as I did a grep of my Python versions 
installed from source for this function and got:
python2.5/distutils/sysconfig.py:def _init_posix():
python2.6/distutils/sysconfig.py:def _init_posix():
python2.7/sysconfig.py:def _init_posix(vars):
python3.1/distutils/sysconfig.py:def _init_posix():

I have not had time to check why Python2.7 is different from the other 
versions (both location and call).

Bruce


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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread David Goldsmith
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 13:05, David Goldsmith d.l.goldsm...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 08:21, Alan G Isaac ais...@american.edu
 wrote:
   This behavior does not match the current documentation.
  
   np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.5)
   0.5
   np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.4)
   0.48796883601707464
  
   I assume this behavior is intentional and it is
   the documentation that is in error (for the case
   when high=low)?
 
  Well, the documentation just doesn't really address high=low. In any
  case, the claim that the results are in [low, high) is wrong thanks to
  floating point arithmetic. It has exactly the same issues as the
  standard library's random.uniform() and should be updated to reflect
  that fact:
 
  random.uniform(a, b)
   Return a random floating point number N such that a = N = b for a
  = b and b = N = a for b  a.
 
   The end-point value b may or may not be included in the range
  depending on floating-point rounding in the equation a + (b-a) *
  random().
 
 
  We should address the high  low case in the documentation because
  we're not going to bother raising an exception when high  low.
 
  Well, an exception isn't the only option (e.g., it could return NaN),

 shudder

  but
  does everyone agree (or at least not block) that this is acceptable
  behavior?

 It's a useful feature. Whenever there is a low/high pair of arguments,
 a user frequently has to write code like so:

  low, high = min(a, b), max(a, b)

 just to satisfy the argument spec of the function. This function does
 not really require knowing which is which for its implementation, so
 requiring them to be one way is simply arbitrariness for the sake of
 arbitrariness.


OK.


  IMO, if this function is going to allow high  low, then the doc
  should _also_ be _quite_ clear that if this feature might mess up the
  user's program in some way, then the user will have to implement their
 own
  safeguard against such parameters being fed to the monster. ;-)

 So do it. But please, don't use frightening terminology like you are
 here. Just state the fact clearly and succinctly as in the
 random.uniform() docs.


Aw shucks, these docstrings are so dry. (Just kidding.) ;-)

DG



 --
 Robert Kern

 I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
 enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as
 though it had an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] numpy + ubuntu 9.10 (karmic) + unladen swallow

2010-02-23 Thread Valery Khamenya
Hi all,

After getting the answers above on the maillist I palyed a bit more
with building numpy.
However without success.

Nevertheless I've found the way to install it using unladen-swallow itself :)
http://groups.google.com/group/unladen-swallow/browse_thread/thread/80f7ccb68a9dcea3#b015202752197989

So, the question is currently closed for me.

Kind regards
--
Valery
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread Friedrich Romstedt
Why not rewriting the definition of uniform() to:

def uniform(start, stop, low = None, high = None):
if low is not None:
start = low
if high is not None:
stop = high
[and here what matters]

This makes no trouble when a user uses either non-keyword or keyword
specification.  The second pair of keywords is just for backward
compatibility.  As after a keyword there is no positional argument
allowed, the only call mixing keywords and non-keywords would be
uniform(low, high = high), and this is also maintained.

Friedrich

2010/2/23 David Goldsmith d.l.goldsm...@gmail.com:
 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 13:05, David Goldsmith d.l.goldsm...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 08:21, Alan G Isaac ais...@american.edu
  wrote:
   This behavior does not match the current documentation.
  
   np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.5)
   0.5
   np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.4)
   0.48796883601707464
  
   I assume this behavior is intentional and it is
   the documentation that is in error (for the case
   when high=low)?
 
  Well, the documentation just doesn't really address high=low. In any
  case, the claim that the results are in [low, high) is wrong thanks to
  floating point arithmetic. It has exactly the same issues as the
  standard library's random.uniform() and should be updated to reflect
  that fact:
 
  random.uniform(a, b)
   Return a random floating point number N such that a = N = b for a
  = b and b = N = a for b  a.
 
   The end-point value b may or may not be included in the range
  depending on floating-point rounding in the equation a + (b-a) *
  random().
 
 
  We should address the high  low case in the documentation because
  we're not going to bother raising an exception when high  low.
 
  Well, an exception isn't the only option (e.g., it could return NaN),

 shudder

  but
  does everyone agree (or at least not block) that this is acceptable
  behavior?

 It's a useful feature. Whenever there is a low/high pair of arguments,
 a user frequently has to write code like so:

  low, high = min(a, b), max(a, b)

 just to satisfy the argument spec of the function. This function does
 not really require knowing which is which for its implementation, so
 requiring them to be one way is simply arbitrariness for the sake of
 arbitrariness.

 OK.


  IMO, if this function is going to allow high  low, then the doc
  should _also_ be _quite_ clear that if this feature might mess up the
  user's program in some way, then the user will have to implement their
  own
  safeguard against such parameters being fed to the monster. ;-)

 So do it. But please, don't use frightening terminology like you are
 here. Just state the fact clearly and succinctly as in the
 random.uniform() docs.

 Aw shucks, these docstrings are so dry. (Just kidding.) ;-)

 DG
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] distutils problem with NumPy-1.4 Py-2.7a3 (Snow Leopard)

2010-02-23 Thread Robert Kern
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 13:32, Bruce Southey bsout...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 02/23/2010 01:18 PM, Tom Loredo wrote:
 Hi-

 I've been testing Python-2.7a3 on Mac OS 10.6.2.  NumPy-1.4.0 will
 not install; it appears something has changed within distutils that
 breaks it:

 $ export MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.6
 $ export CFLAGS=-arch x86_64
 $ export FFLAGS=-m64
 $ export LDFLAGS=-Wall -undefined dynamic_lookup -bundle -arch x86_64
 $ time python setup.py build --fcompiler=gnu95
 Running from numpy source directory.
 Traceback (most recent call last):
    File setup.py, line 187, inmodule
      setup_package()
    File setup.py, line 155, in setup_package
      from numpy.distutils.core import setup
    File 
 /Volumes/System/Users/loredo/Downloads/numpy-1.4.0-OSX/numpy/distutils/__init__.py,
  line 6, inmodule
      import ccompiler
    File 
 /Volumes/System/Users/loredo/Downloads/numpy-1.4.0-OSX/numpy/distutils/ccompiler.py,
  line 17, inmodule
      _old_init_posix = distutils.sysconfig._init_posix
 AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '_init_posix'

 I realize NumPy makes no claim to be compatible with 2.7(alpha); I'm
 reporting this as a heads-up.

 -Tom

 PS:  For testing purposes:  To get nose to install for 2.7a3,
 you need to use the current hg branch.  The last release
 (including the out-of-date dev branch on PyPI) is not
 compatible with 2.7 changes to unittest internals.




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 Hi,
 I think it is Python related as I did a grep of my Python versions
 installed from source for this function and got:
 python2.5/distutils/sysconfig.py:def _init_posix():
 python2.6/distutils/sysconfig.py:def _init_posix():
 python2.7/sysconfig.py:def _init_posix(vars):
 python3.1/distutils/sysconfig.py:def _init_posix():

 I have not had time to check why Python2.7 is different from the other
 versions (both location and call).

sysconfig was deemed useful outside of distutils and was promoted to
the top level. Unfortunately, they didn't leave a backwards
compatibility stub. Feel free to create a bug ticket on the Python bug
tracker.

-- 
Robert Kern

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as
though it had an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread Robert Kern
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 14:04, Friedrich Romstedt
friedrichromst...@gmail.com wrote:
 Why not rewriting the definition of uniform() to:

 def uniform(start, stop, low = None, high = None):
    if low is not None:
        start = low
    if high is not None:
        stop = high
    [and here what matters]

 This makes no trouble when a user uses either non-keyword or keyword
 specification.  The second pair of keywords is just for backward
 compatibility.  As after a keyword there is no positional argument
 allowed, the only call mixing keywords and non-keywords would be
 uniform(low, high = high), and this is also maintained.

Except for someone calling uniform(low, high, size). In any case, why
would you make this change? It doesn't seem to solve any problem or
clear up any semantics. start and stop imply a stop  start
relationship, too, albeit not as strongly. If someone wants to pass in
a high  low, let them.

-- 
Robert Kern

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as
though it had an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread Friedrich Romstedt
 Except for someone calling uniform(low, high, size).
Ah, sorry, I didn't know about that. In that case, everything I wrote
is superfluous and I apologise for a non-helping comment.

But, one could incorporate SIZE simply in the calling convention.

 In any case, why
 would you make this change? It doesn't seem to solve any problem or
 clear up any semantics. start and stop imply a stop  start
 relationship, too, albeit not as strongly.
Hmm, I thought that start is where the thing starts, and stop where it
stops, so it's in virtual time stop  start, but it can travel
downwards.  I thought it would help making the semantics more clear.
But I see it depends on interpretation.  With low and high, my
interpretation is on the contrary impossible.  The ugly doubling was
just intended for compatibility, resulting in a note for backward
compatibility reasons, you can also pass ... or something like that.

 If someone wants to pass in
 a high  low, let them.
It's possible, of course.

Friedrich
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread Robert Kern
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 14:26, Friedrich Romstedt
friedrichromst...@gmail.com wrote:

 In any case, why
 would you make this change? It doesn't seem to solve any problem or
 clear up any semantics. start and stop imply a stop  start
 relationship, too, albeit not as strongly.
 Hmm, I thought that start is where the thing starts, and stop where it
 stops, so it's in virtual time stop  start, but it can travel
 downwards.  I thought it would help making the semantics more clear.

It helps a little, I agree, but not as much as simply changing the
names to something neutral like (a, b) as in the standard library. The
necessity for a backwards compatibility hack imposes additional costs
to making any such change. I don't think those costs are warranted by
the semantic confusion of allowing high  low.

-- 
Robert Kern

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as
though it had an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread Friedrich Romstedt
2010/2/23 Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com:
 It helps a little, I agree, but not as much as simply changing the
 names to something neutral like (a, b) as in the standard library. The
 necessity for a backwards compatibility hack imposes additional costs
 to making any such change. I don't think those costs are warranted by
 the semantic confusion of allowing high  low.

I agree fully.  The (a, b) thing is the most elegant.  And I also
agree that the overhead renders it nearly useless, when one focuses on
speed.

Sorry for making noise again with an unmature thought.  It just came
into my mind and looked so cute ... :-(

Friedrich
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread Robert Kern
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 14:51, Friedrich Romstedt
friedrichromst...@gmail.com wrote:
 2010/2/23 Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com:
 It helps a little, I agree, but not as much as simply changing the
 names to something neutral like (a, b) as in the standard library. The
 necessity for a backwards compatibility hack imposes additional costs
 to making any such change. I don't think those costs are warranted by
 the semantic confusion of allowing high  low.

 I agree fully.  The (a, b) thing is the most elegant.  And I also
 agree that the overhead renders it nearly useless, when one focuses on
 speed.

 Sorry for making noise again with an unmature thought.  It just came
 into my mind and looked so cute ... :-(

No worries! I'm not trying to discourage you from posting half-baked
thoughts. They're often correct!

-- 
Robert Kern

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as
though it had an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread Friedrich Romstedt
2010/2/23 Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com:
 No worries! I'm not trying to discourage you from posting half-baked
 thoughts. They're often correct!

Thank you :-) *smiling and laughing* !

Friedrich

P.S.: But my reply obviously does no longer belong to the mailing list ...
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread David Goldsmith
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Friedrich Romstedt 
friedrichromst...@gmail.com wrote:

 2010/2/23 Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com:
  No worries! I'm not trying to discourage you from posting half-baked
  thoughts. They're often correct!

 Thank you :-) *smiling and laughing* !

 Friedrich

 P.S.: But my reply obviously does no longer belong to the mailing list ...


For better or worse, institutional memory, be it baked, half-baked, or raw,
is best preserved. :-)

DG


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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread David Goldsmith
Incidentally, I noted the following in the discussion, but since those don't
get as much viewership (and since I'm about to edit the docstring anyway):
presently, the Example in uniform's docstring generates a plot using
matplotlib.pyplot - is generating a plot really consistent w/ the spirit of
wanting our examples to pass automated testing?

DG
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] random.uniform documentation bug?

2010-02-23 Thread David Goldsmith
OK, fixed in Wiki.  ( OK to apply set to Yes)

DG

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 08:21, Alan G Isaac ais...@american.edu wrote:
  This behavior does not match the current documentation.
 
  np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.5)
  0.5
  np.random.uniform(low=0.5,high=0.4)
  0.48796883601707464
 
  I assume this behavior is intentional and it is
  the documentation that is in error (for the case
  when high=low)?

 Well, the documentation just doesn't really address high=low. In any
 case, the claim that the results are in [low, high) is wrong thanks to
 floating point arithmetic. It has exactly the same issues as the
 standard library's random.uniform() and should be updated to reflect
 that fact:


 random.uniform(a, b)
  Return a random floating point number N such that a = N = b for a
 = b and b = N = a for b  a.

  The end-point value b may or may not be included in the range
 depending on floating-point rounding in the equation a + (b-a) *
 random().


 We should address the high  low case in the documentation because
 we're not going to bother raising an exception when high  low.

 --
 Robert Kern

 I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
 enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as
 though it had an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] datetime uses API deprecated in python3.1

2010-02-23 Thread Travis Oliphant


On Feb 23, 2010, at 1:03 AM, Charles R Harris wrote:




On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Pauli Virtanen p...@iki.fi wrote:
ma, 2010-02-22 kello 14:01 -0700, Charles R Harris kirjoitti:
 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com
 wrote:
[clip]
   Why? PyCObjects don't serialize at all. They would never show  
up in

  a pickle to begin with.

 So what happens to them? I'm not that familiar with pickles

arraydescr_reduce pulls out the datetime info from the metadata dict,
and converts it to a tuple containing something pickleable. And
everything in reverse in *_setstate


Everything works except the import of the {ufunc, multiarray} api's  
from the modules. If the api's are stored as PyCObjects then all the  
tests pass. I'll try to get that last bit fixed up tomorrow.


Just back from PyCon.   It is useful to know that the Python core team  
feels that NumPy porting to 3k is a *big* deal.


Lots of people would be interested in your experiences with porting  
NumPy to Python 3k.   In particular, the fact that they removed APIs  
and the extra pain that causes is useful information in their decision  
making.


I'm not sure how big a deal it is that we have to change the API to  
handle PyCapsules instead of PyCObjects, but if you have any feedback  
to the python core dev team, they would be interested in hearing it  
--- particularly right after PyCon.


-Travis





Chuck

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Enthought Inc.
1-512-536-1057
http://www.enthought.com
oliph...@enthought.com





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Re: [Numpy-discussion] distutils problem with NumPy-1.4 Py-2.7a3 (Snow Leopard)

2010-02-23 Thread Robert Kern
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 13:18, Tom Loredo lor...@astro.cornell.edu wrote:

 Hi-

 I've been testing Python-2.7a3 on Mac OS 10.6.2.  NumPy-1.4.0 will
 not install; it appears something has changed within distutils that
 breaks it:
  File 
 /Volumes/System/Users/loredo/Downloads/numpy-1.4.0-OSX/numpy/distutils/ccompiler.py,
  line 17, in module
    _old_init_posix = distutils.sysconfig._init_posix
 AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '_init_posix'

This line is actually unused. You may delete it.

-- 
Robert Kern

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as
though it had an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] datetime uses API deprecated in python3.1

2010-02-23 Thread Charles R Harris
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Travis Oliphant oliph...@enthought.comwrote:


 On Feb 23, 2010, at 1:03 AM, Charles R Harris wrote:



 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Pauli Virtanen p...@iki.fi wrote:

 ma, 2010-02-22 kello 14:01 -0700, Charles R Harris kirjoitti:
  On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 [clip]
Why? PyCObjects don't serialize at all. They would never show up in
   a pickle to begin with.
 
  So what happens to them? I'm not that familiar with pickles

 arraydescr_reduce pulls out the datetime info from the metadata dict,
 and converts it to a tuple containing something pickleable. And
 everything in reverse in *_setstate


 Everything works except the import of the {ufunc, multiarray} api's from
 the modules. If the api's are stored as PyCObjects then all the tests pass.
 I'll try to get that last bit fixed up tomorrow.


 Just back from PyCon.   It is useful to know that the Python core team
 feels that NumPy porting to 3k is a *big* deal.

 Lots of people would be interested in your experiences with porting NumPy
 to Python 3k.   In particular, the fact that they removed APIs and the extra
 pain that causes is useful information in their decision making.

 I'm not sure how big a deal it is that we have to change the API to handle
 PyCapsules instead of PyCObjects, but if you have any feedback to the python
 core dev team, they would be interested in hearing it --- particularly right
 after PyCon.


The PyCapsule transition is done, but needs some cleanup. I'm thinking about
the best approach to the latter. I put some functions in compat_py3k.h that
are drop in replacements for our needs, but they hide the improved error
handling of PyCapsule. I'm thinking a better approach might be to use the
replacement functions to bring the error support of PyCObject closer to
PyCapsule. Because the current fix is a bunch of #ifdefs in the code the
substitution could be made bit by bit, rewriting the surrounding code to
support the new error handling.

f2py still needs fixing.

Chuck
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] Building Windows binaries on OS X

2010-02-23 Thread David Cournapeau
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Ralf Gommers
ralf.gomm...@googlemail.com wrote:


 Hi David, did you find time to put those Atlas binaries somewhere?

I am putting them into numpy subversion as we speak (in vendor:
http://svn.scipy.org/svn/numpy/vendor).

cheers,

David
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] distutils problem with NumPy-1.4 Py-2.7a3 (Snow Leopard)

2010-02-23 Thread Bruce Southey
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 13:18, Tom Loredo lor...@astro.cornell.edu wrote:

 Hi-

 I've been testing Python-2.7a3 on Mac OS 10.6.2.  NumPy-1.4.0 will
 not install; it appears something has changed within distutils that
 breaks it:
  File 
 /Volumes/System/Users/loredo/Downloads/numpy-1.4.0-OSX/numpy/distutils/ccompiler.py,
  line 17, in module
    _old_init_posix = distutils.sysconfig._init_posix
 AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '_init_posix'

 This line is actually unused. You may delete it.

 --
 Robert Kern


Do you want this as a numpy bug report?

Bruce
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[Numpy-discussion] RHEL 5.3+ build?

2010-02-23 Thread David Carmean


Does anyone use/build this stuff on RHEL 5.3+ (x64)?  :)  Seems not so much.

I'd like to use numpy (and PyTables) for a few tasks where it would be much 
more efficient to have much of the processing performed on the servers 
generating 
the data (about 400 systems) than backhauling the huge amount of input data 
across our WAN around the continent.  However, the vast majority of these 
systems 
are 64-bit RedHat EL 5.3 and 5.4, and I'm having trouble building numpy 1.3.0 
with gcc.

I found an RPM for 1.2.0 so that will get me through most of the RD, and I'd 
rather wait for the next stable release before spending any more time trying 
to build.  But I'm wondering if there's anybody on the team or in the active 
contributors/users world who is regularly building numpy on various flavors of 
CentOS/RHEL5.x.

Thanks.

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Re: [Numpy-discussion] Building Windows binaries on OS X

2010-02-23 Thread josef . pktd
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:52 PM, David Cournapeau courn...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Ralf Gommers
 ralf.gomm...@googlemail.com wrote:


 Hi David, did you find time to put those Atlas binaries somewhere?

 I am putting them into numpy subversion as we speak (in vendor:
 http://svn.scipy.org/svn/numpy/vendor).

Thank you,

Are they ok to link to as an update in
 
http://scipy.org/Installing_SciPy/Windows#head-cd37d819e333227e327079e4c2a2298daf625624

the old Atlas is 3.6.0

Josef


 cheers,

 David
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] Building Windows binaries on OS X

2010-02-23 Thread David Cournapeau
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:05 AM,  josef.p...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:52 PM, David Cournapeau courn...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Ralf Gommers
 ralf.gomm...@googlemail.com wrote:


 Hi David, did you find time to put those Atlas binaries somewhere?

 I am putting them into numpy subversion as we speak (in vendor:
 http://svn.scipy.org/svn/numpy/vendor).

 Thank you,

 Are they ok to link to as an update in
  http://scipy.org/Installing_SciPy/Windows#head-cd37d819e333227e327079e4c2a2298daf625624

Maybe we should put them also somewhere on the website directly - I am
not sure whether it is good idea to download relatively large binaries
directly from svn.

cheers,

David
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] Building Windows binaries on OS X

2010-02-23 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:52 AM, David Cournapeau courn...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Ralf Gommers
 ralf.gomm...@googlemail.com wrote:
 
 
  Hi David, did you find time to put those Atlas binaries somewhere?

 I am putting them into numpy subversion as we speak (in vendor:
 http://svn.scipy.org/svn/numpy/vendor).

 Thanks a lot!

Ralf
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] RHEL 5.3+ build?

2010-02-23 Thread David Cournapeau
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:04 AM, David Carmean d...@halibut.com wrote:


 Does anyone use/build this stuff on RHEL 5.3+ (x64)?  :)  Seems not so much.

 I'd like to use numpy (and PyTables) for a few tasks where it would be much
 more efficient to have much of the processing performed on the servers 
 generating
 the data (about 400 systems) than backhauling the huge amount of input data
 across our WAN around the continent.  However, the vast majority of these 
 systems
 are 64-bit RedHat EL 5.3 and 5.4, and I'm having trouble building numpy 1.3.0
 with gcc.

 I found an RPM for 1.2.0 so that will get me through most of the RD, and I'd
 rather wait for the next stable release before spending any more time trying
 to build.  But I'm wondering if there's anybody on the team or in the active
 contributors/users world who is regularly building numpy on various flavors of
 CentOS/RHEL5.x.

Please tell us what does not work, and what you did to build numpy
before it fails.

David
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[Numpy-discussion] How to test f2py?

2010-02-23 Thread Charles R Harris
Hi All,

I've made PyCObject - PyCapsule changes to f2py for python3.1. How can I
check that f2py still works as advertised before making a commit?

Chuck
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] How to test f2py?

2010-02-23 Thread Robert Kern
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:14, Charles R Harris
charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi All,

 I've made PyCObject - PyCapsule changes to f2py for python3.1. How can I
 check that f2py still works as advertised before making a commit?

numpy/f2py/tests/run_all.py

-- 
Robert Kern

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as
though it had an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] How to test f2py?

2010-02-23 Thread Charles R Harris
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:14, Charles R Harris
 charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi All,
 
  I've made PyCObject - PyCapsule changes to f2py for python3.1. How can I
  check that f2py still works as advertised before making a commit?

 numpy/f2py/tests/run_all.py


It's not py3k compatible... also it doesn't find the f2py2e module even
though it has been installed with numpy. ?

Chuck
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] How to test f2py?

2010-02-23 Thread Robert Kern
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:51, Charles R Harris
charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:14, Charles R Harris
 charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi All,
 
  I've made PyCObject - PyCapsule changes to f2py for python3.1. How can
  I
  check that f2py still works as advertised before making a commit?

 numpy/f2py/tests/run_all.py

 It's not py3k compatible...

So make it py3k compatible.

 also it doesn't find the f2py2e module even
 though it has been installed with numpy. ?

I don't understand this. Error message?

-- 
Robert Kern

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as
though it had an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] How to test f2py?

2010-02-23 Thread Robert Kern
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 22:12, Charles R Harris
charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:54 PM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:51, Charles R Harris
 charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:14, Charles R Harris
  charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote:
   Hi All,
  
   I've made PyCObject - PyCapsule changes to f2py for python3.1. How
   can
   I
   check that f2py still works as advertised before making a commit?
 
  numpy/f2py/tests/run_all.py
 
  It's not py3k compatible...

 So make it py3k compatible.

 It's autoconverted in build/py3k. It is, however, not installed anywhere.


  also it doesn't find the f2py2e module even
  though it has been installed with numpy. ?

 I don't understand this. Error message?


 Running /usr/bin/python
 /home/charris/Workspace/numpy.git/numpy/f2py/tests/f77/return_character.py
 10 --quiet
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File
 /home/charris/Workspace/numpy.git/numpy/f2py/tests/f77/return_character.py,
 line 10, in module
     import f2py2e
 ImportError: No module named f2py2e
 TEST FAILURE (status=1)

 So the import is wrong. The question is: did this used to work?

From the independent f2py2e days, yes. Just change those import lines
to from numpy import f2py as f2py2e.

-- 
Robert Kern

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as
though it had an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] long(a) vs a.__long__() for scalar arrays

2010-02-23 Thread David Cournapeau
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 3:12 PM, David Cournapeau courn...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 I am a bit puzzled by the protocol for long(a) where a is a scalar
 array. For example, for a = np.float128(1), I was expecting long(a) to
 call a.__long__, but it does not look like it is the case. int(a) does
 not call a.__int__ either. Where does the long conversion happen in
 numpy for scalar arrays ?

For the record, this happens in the PyNumber machinery (the exact C
function doing it is longdouble_long in scalarmath module).

cheers,

David
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] How to test f2py?

2010-02-23 Thread Charles R Harris
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 22:12, Charles R Harris
 charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:54 PM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:51, Charles R Harris
  charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote:
  
   On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com
   wrote:
  
   On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:14, Charles R Harris
   charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi All,
   
I've made PyCObject - PyCapsule changes to f2py for python3.1. How
can
I
check that f2py still works as advertised before making a commit?
  
   numpy/f2py/tests/run_all.py
  
   It's not py3k compatible...
 
  So make it py3k compatible.
 
  It's autoconverted in build/py3k. It is, however, not installed anywhere.
 
 
   also it doesn't find the f2py2e module even
   though it has been installed with numpy. ?
 
  I don't understand this. Error message?
 
 
  Running /usr/bin/python
 
 /home/charris/Workspace/numpy.git/numpy/f2py/tests/f77/return_character.py
  10 --quiet
  Traceback (most recent call last):
File
 
 /home/charris/Workspace/numpy.git/numpy/f2py/tests/f77/return_character.py,
  line 10, in module
  import f2py2e
  ImportError: No module named f2py2e
  TEST FAILURE (status=1)
 
  So the import is wrong. The question is: did this used to work?

 From the independent f2py2e days, yes. Just change those import lines
 to from numpy import f2py as f2py2e


Boy, that code is *old*, it still uses Numeric ;) I don't think it can
really be considered a test suite, it needs lotsa love and it needs to get
installed. Anyway, f2py with py3k turns out to have string problems, and I
expect other type problems, so there is considerable work that needs to be
done to bring it up to snuff. Sounds like gsoc material. I'm not going to
worry about it any more until later.

Chuck
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Re: [Numpy-discussion] Building Windows binaries on OS X

2010-02-23 Thread David Cournapeau
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Ralf Gommers
ralf.gomm...@googlemail.com wrote:


 On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:52 AM, David Cournapeau courn...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Ralf Gommers
 ralf.gomm...@googlemail.com wrote:
 
 
  Hi David, did you find time to put those Atlas binaries somewhere?

 I am putting them into numpy subversion as we speak (in vendor:
 http://svn.scipy.org/svn/numpy/vendor).

 Thanks a lot!

So here is how I see things in the near future for release:
- compile a simple binary installer for mac os x and windows (no need
for doc or multiple archs) from 1.4.x
- test this with the scipy binary out there (running the full test
suites), ideally other well known packages as well (matplotlib,
pytables, etc...).
- if it works for you, or you cannot easily test it, put it for wide
testing as a basis for the 1.4.0.1 binary
- if it works, make a RC1 for Numpy 1.4.0.1 (full binaries).

I think we need to push this ASAP to recover from the current
confusion w.r.t. binaries.

cheers,

David
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