Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-09 Thread josef.pktd
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Alan G Isaac alan.is...@gmail.com wrote: Alan wrote: 3. I admit, my students are NOT using non-boolen fancy indexing on multidimensional arrays. (As far as I know.) Are yours? The only confusing case is mixing slices and integer array indexing for ndim 2.

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-09 Thread Sebastian Berg
On Do, 2015-04-09 at 02:22 -0400, Nathaniel Smith wrote: On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Alan G Isaac alan.is...@gmail.com wrote: 1. I use numpy in teaching. I have never heard a complaint about its indexing behavior. Have you heard such complaints? Some observations: 1) There's an

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-09 Thread Alan G Isaac
Alan wrote: 3. I admit, my students are NOT using non-boolen fancy indexing on multidimensional arrays. (As far as I know.) Are yours? On 4/9/2015 2:22 AM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: Well, okay, this would explain it, since integer fancy indexing is exactly the confusing case:-) On the plus

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-09 Thread Alan G Isaac
On 4/9/2015 1:57 AM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: Do you think there's anything we could be doing to reduce this kind of adrenaline reaction while still allowing for relaxed discussion about out-there ideas? numpy3...@scipy.org :-) ___ NumPy-Discussion

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-09 Thread Nathaniel Smith
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Alan G Isaac alan.is...@gmail.com wrote: 1. I use numpy in teaching. I have never heard a complaint about its indexing behavior. Have you heard such complaints? Some observations: 1) There's an unrelated thread on numpy-discussion right now in which a user is

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-08 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 10:20 PM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 8:40 PM, Ralf Gommers ralf.gomm...@gmail.com wrote: To address in detail the list of Matthew you mention above: * implement orthogonal indexing as a method arr.sensible_index[...] That's

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-08 Thread Nathaniel Smith
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:09 PM, Alan G Isaac alan.is...@gmail.com wrote: That analogy fails because it suggests a private conversation. This list is extremely public. For example, I am just a user, and I am on it. I can tell you that as a long-time numpy user my reaction to the proposal to

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-08 Thread Robert Kern
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Nathaniel Smith n...@pobox.com wrote: On Apr 5, 2015 7:04 AM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Nathaniel Smith n...@pobox.com wrote: On Apr 4, 2015 4:12 AM, Todd toddr...@gmail.com wrote: There was no

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-08 Thread josef.pktd
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Nathaniel Smith n...@pobox.com wrote: On Apr 5, 2015 7:04 AM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Nathaniel Smith n...@pobox.com wrote: On Apr

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-08 Thread Eric Firing
On 2015/04/08 8:09 AM, Alan G Isaac wrote: That analogy fails because it suggests a private conversation. This list is extremely public. For example, I am just a user, and I am on it. I can tell you that as a long-time numpy user my reaction to the proposal to change indexing semantics was

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-08 Thread Alan G Isaac
That analogy fails because it suggests a private conversation. This list is extremely public. For example, I am just a user, and I am on it. I can tell you that as a long-time numpy user my reaction to the proposal to change indexing semantics was (i) OMG YMBFKM and then (ii) take a breath;

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-08 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 9:05 PM, Eric Firing efir...@hawaii.edu wrote: On 2015/04/08 8:09 AM, Alan G Isaac wrote: That analogy fails because it suggests a private conversation. This list is extremely public. For example, I am just a user, and I am on it. I can tell you that as a long-time

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-08 Thread Robert Kern
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 8:05 PM, Eric Firing efir...@hawaii.edu wrote: Now, can we please get back to consideration of reasonable options? Sure, but I recommend going back to the actually topical thread (or a new one), as this one is meta. -- Robert Kern

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-08 Thread Eric Firing
On 2015/04/08 9:40 AM, Ralf Gommers wrote: Their proposal is not being discussed; instead that potentially useful discussion is being completely derailed by insisting on wanting to talk about changes to numpy's indexing behavior. Good point. That was an unintended consequence of my message.

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-08 Thread Alan G Isaac
1. I use numpy in teaching. I have never heard a complaint about its indexing behavior. Have you heard such complaints? 2. One reason I use numpy in teaching is its indexing behavior. What specific language provides a better indexing model, in your opinion? 3. I admit, my students are NOT using

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-08 Thread Eric Firing
On 2015/04/08 10:02 AM, Alan G Isaac wrote: 3. I admit, my students are NOT using non-boolen fancy indexing on multidimensional arrays. (As far as I know.) Are yours? Yes, one attempted to, essentially by accident. That was in my original message. Please refer back to that. The earlier

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-08 Thread Fernando Perez
Trying to bring the meta back into this thread (sorry for Robert's PB :)... The only thing I'd like to add, is that it's perhaps worth messaging that: a PR is just (as the Github folks like to say) a conversation based on code. It is NOT necessarily something intended explicitly for merging. In

Re: [Numpy-discussion] On responding to dubious ideas (was: Re: Advanced indexing: fancy vs. orthogonal)

2015-04-08 Thread Robert Kern
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 8:40 PM, Ralf Gommers ralf.gomm...@gmail.com wrote: To address in detail the list of Matthew you mention above: * implement orthogonal indexing as a method arr.sensible_index[...] That's basically Jaime's PR. * implement the current non-boolean fancy indexing