Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
+1, it is a very intuitive page, and seems easy to link to passing project etc. jan On 2 November 2012 02:40, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 30/10/2012 Guy Waterval wrote: But for other people who will occasionally participate, why not a Post Office where they could register (for security reasons, acceptation of the license, etc.). When they have time, they can visit the Post Office to see the list of to do tasks, and they can download for instance a translation job. This has been a recurring request, a sort of web application acting as employment agency: matching skills and tasks. Done properly (and with an adequately smart user interface) it would indeed help in attracting new volunteers. I wonder if something like this would work: http://openhatch.org/search/?q=toughness=bitesizelanguage=Python It looks like they can suck in appropriately flagged BZ issues. -Rob It would need new tools since BugZilla does not offer an adequate interface and lacks the individual part (i.e., a self-assessed list of skills that will match the tasks). If somebody wants to draft some ideas on a wiki page, this is something that might be worth some effort on a medium term. Regards, Andrea.
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On 31/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote: Right. So maybe when we do a wider call for volunteers we can offer three tracks: 1) Sign up for ooo-dev and drink from the firehose (our only current option) 2) A short intro on the wiki, one that doesn't exist yet, but maybe someone can write one. 3) A longer self-paced intro on the website (what I'm working on) Actually 2 and 3 are not necessarily separated. For example, http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/translate.html could probably become the Introduction to localization mentioned in http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ It might be that 2 can just be implemented as a simple page For impatient volunteers that suggests to take a longer approach but gives 4-5 links to the most practical pages from http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ so that we have less duplication and still the ability to catch all types of volunteers. Regards, Andrea.
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 6:40 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 30/10/2012 Guy Waterval wrote: But for other people who will occasionally participate, why not a Post Office where they could register (for security reasons, acceptation of the license, etc.). When they have time, they can visit the Post Office to see the list of to do tasks, and they can download for instance a translation job. This has been a recurring request, a sort of web application acting as employment agency: matching skills and tasks. Done properly (and with an adequately smart user interface) it would indeed help in attracting new volunteers. I wonder if something like this would work: http://openhatch.org/search/?q=toughness=bitesizelanguage=Python It looks like they can suck in appropriately flagged BZ issues. -Rob ! I like it...of course we would need to be diligent about using BZ for new tasks... :} It would need new tools since BugZilla does not offer an adequate interface and lacks the individual part (i.e., a self-assessed list of skills that will match the tasks). If somebody wants to draft some ideas on a wiki page, this is something that might be worth some effort on a medium term. Regards, Andrea. -- MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On 02/11/2012 Rob Weir wrote: I wonder if something like this would work: http://openhatch.org/search/?q=toughness=bitesizelanguage=Python It looks like they can suck in appropriately flagged BZ issues. Thanks, good link. It still seems to lack the matching part (i.e., I register on the site and I state that I know Danish, Perl and C++ and that I'm looking for minor tasks, i.e., something that can be finished within 2 hours; and I get notified when suitable tasks are posted, or I get them immediately displayed upon login). But, unless we find/get something better, this might already be a start. Regards, Andrea.
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
Rob, I've submitted QA introduction page, pls help commit it. Thanks 2012/11/1 Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com On 10/31/2012 11:36 AM, jan iversen wrote: +1 to your 3 layer strategy. I have made a proposal for the wiki page, however I am not competent to fill in the tasks. http://wiki.openoffice.org/w/**index.php?title=Communication/** new_contributorsaction=submithttp://wiki.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=Communication/new_contributorsaction=submit I have NOT linked it in anywhere, but a natural link would in participation on the main page. Jan. OK, I will bail out from this for now, and see what else develops here. You know what they say about too many cooks... :/ Looking forward to interesting results from both Rob and Jan. I will certainly help as I see a need. On 31 October 2012 18:59, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 1:46 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. I think your md pages are SUPERwhat I suggested was an additional wiki page (actually someone else called it postoffice) where we put small tasks that need to be translated / written etc. So I see your pages go hand in hand with Wiki pages, just too different levels of interaction with the community. Right. So maybe when we do a wider call for volunteers we can offer three tracks: 1) Sign up for ooo-dev and drink from the firehose (our only current option) 2) A short intro on the wiki, one that doesn't exist yet, but maybe someone can write one. 3) A longer self-paced intro on the website (what I'm working on) They are volunteers, so we can't force them to do anything. But we can offer them a few choices. I'm happy to provide one of those choices. Who wants to provide another? -Rob jan On 31 October 2012 16:59, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/28/2012 04:30 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 23/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote: New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/orientation/http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ This is an excellent resource. But we received a few requests from prospective volunteers this weekend and I'm believing it would be overwhelming to point them there. I still believe these documents are excellent, but probably they are assuming our volunteer is above average, or at least willing to engage deeply with the project. They would be perfect for me, for you, or for a newcomer like Jan who has the skills and the mindset to understand in detail how things work. And how do we know in advance which volunteers are like Jan and which are not? I think we should find some way to point them to the info and say that they are welcome to jump in and ignore this all, or skim it in parallel with direct participation, or read through this stuff first. It is entirely up to them. But generally, the more one needs to interact with other project participants and other systems and even other parts of Apache, the more this information becomes useful. Although not stated, one could almost say that Level 4 would be becoming a Committer. So you are correct that this is a track for a more determined volunteer, But we will also have (and we do have: most volunteers I see on the mailing lists in Italian fall in this category) volunteers who don't care that much about OpenOffice as a project: they use the product and just want to give something back. They want to scratch an itch, or just to do something, but they are very task-oriented: they want something to do rather than something to read. For example, we may have translation volunteers who would be perfectly satisfied if we e-mail them a PO file and tell them to grab POEdit and send the file back; and then they would consider a deeper engagement, but not earlier. Translation volunteers are different in many ways, but even there I think we need some solid orientation material. They won't go far before wondering why they cannot write to Pootle and the website, but others can. That leads us into discussion of roles at Apache, etc. And we really need to expose them to the Apache License at the earliest opportunity. We do no one any favors if we're passing around PO files via private mail, and receiving translations without any public record of contribution. In any case, this is an issue we've had for a while. Becoming a Committer is a higher hurdle than is appropriate for most translation volunteers, due to iCLA, etc. The orientation guides did not create this problem, they merely remind us of it. And indeed they are not totally wrong: knowing how the Apache Board works is not needed to be able to translate a press release, or a few OpenOffice
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 30/10/2012 Guy Waterval wrote: But for other people who will occasionally participate, why not a Post Office where they could register (for security reasons, acceptation of the license, etc.). When they have time, they can visit the Post Office to see the list of to do tasks, and they can download for instance a translation job. This has been a recurring request, a sort of web application acting as employment agency: matching skills and tasks. Done properly (and with an adequately smart user interface) it would indeed help in attracting new volunteers. I wonder if something like this would work: http://openhatch.org/search/?q=toughness=bitesizelanguage=Python It looks like they can suck in appropriately flagged BZ issues. -Rob It would need new tools since BugZilla does not offer an adequate interface and lacks the individual part (i.e., a self-assessed list of skills that will match the tasks). If somebody wants to draft some ideas on a wiki page, this is something that might be worth some effort on a medium term. Regards, Andrea.
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On 10/28/2012 04:30 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 23/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote: New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ This is an excellent resource. But we received a few requests from prospective volunteers this weekend and I'm believing it would be overwhelming to point them there. I still believe these documents are excellent, but probably they are assuming our volunteer is above average, or at least willing to engage deeply with the project. They would be perfect for me, for you, or for a newcomer like Jan who has the skills and the mindset to understand in detail how things work. And how do we know in advance which volunteers are like Jan and which are not? I think we should find some way to point them to the info and say that they are welcome to jump in and ignore this all, or skim it in parallel with direct participation, or read through this stuff first. It is entirely up to them. But generally, the more one needs to interact with other project participants and other systems and even other parts of Apache, the more this information becomes useful. Although not stated, one could almost say that Level 4 would be becoming a Committer. So you are correct that this is a track for a more determined volunteer, But we will also have (and we do have: most volunteers I see on the mailing lists in Italian fall in this category) volunteers who don't care that much about OpenOffice as a project: they use the product and just want to give something back. They want to scratch an itch, or just to do something, but they are very task-oriented: they want something to do rather than something to read. For example, we may have translation volunteers who would be perfectly satisfied if we e-mail them a PO file and tell them to grab POEdit and send the file back; and then they would consider a deeper engagement, but not earlier. Translation volunteers are different in many ways, but even there I think we need some solid orientation material. They won't go far before wondering why they cannot write to Pootle and the website, but others can. That leads us into discussion of roles at Apache, etc. And we really need to expose them to the Apache License at the earliest opportunity. We do no one any favors if we're passing around PO files via private mail, and receiving translations without any public record of contribution. In any case, this is an issue we've had for a while. Becoming a Committer is a higher hurdle than is appropriate for most translation volunteers, due to iCLA, etc. The orientation guides did not create this problem, they merely remind us of it. And indeed they are not totally wrong: knowing how the Apache Board works is not needed to be able to translate a press release, or a few OpenOffice strings, into Italian. Could it be that we need a practical entry point for people who want to help and just want to do it immediately? Placing these information at level 3 of the Volunteer Orientation seems too much for volunteers who want to jump in and do something (while, again, the orientation guide is excellent for a skilled, determined volunteer). Since level 3 for translators does not exist yet, it may be too early to say whether or not is practical. (I hope it will be practical). If we make it self-contained, it may be possible for it be consulted on its own for someone who is not seeking deeper engagement with the project. -Rob Regards, Andrea. Rob, I still support this whole notion. But, maybe it would be better to go with more of a checklist style instead of the in-depth explanations you have in this document. What if you ported this to the wiki (Jan suggested this as well. cwiki is easiest for me but I have no object to wiki.openoffice.org) so those of us that are interested can more easily contribute to this worthwhile guide. Thanks for starting this. It is needed. -- MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/28/2012 04:30 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 23/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote: New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ This is an excellent resource. But we received a few requests from prospective volunteers this weekend and I'm believing it would be overwhelming to point them there. I still believe these documents are excellent, but probably they are assuming our volunteer is above average, or at least willing to engage deeply with the project. They would be perfect for me, for you, or for a newcomer like Jan who has the skills and the mindset to understand in detail how things work. And how do we know in advance which volunteers are like Jan and which are not? I think we should find some way to point them to the info and say that they are welcome to jump in and ignore this all, or skim it in parallel with direct participation, or read through this stuff first. It is entirely up to them. But generally, the more one needs to interact with other project participants and other systems and even other parts of Apache, the more this information becomes useful. Although not stated, one could almost say that Level 4 would be becoming a Committer. So you are correct that this is a track for a more determined volunteer, But we will also have (and we do have: most volunteers I see on the mailing lists in Italian fall in this category) volunteers who don't care that much about OpenOffice as a project: they use the product and just want to give something back. They want to scratch an itch, or just to do something, but they are very task-oriented: they want something to do rather than something to read. For example, we may have translation volunteers who would be perfectly satisfied if we e-mail them a PO file and tell them to grab POEdit and send the file back; and then they would consider a deeper engagement, but not earlier. Translation volunteers are different in many ways, but even there I think we need some solid orientation material. They won't go far before wondering why they cannot write to Pootle and the website, but others can. That leads us into discussion of roles at Apache, etc. And we really need to expose them to the Apache License at the earliest opportunity. We do no one any favors if we're passing around PO files via private mail, and receiving translations without any public record of contribution. In any case, this is an issue we've had for a while. Becoming a Committer is a higher hurdle than is appropriate for most translation volunteers, due to iCLA, etc. The orientation guides did not create this problem, they merely remind us of it. And indeed they are not totally wrong: knowing how the Apache Board works is not needed to be able to translate a press release, or a few OpenOffice strings, into Italian. Could it be that we need a practical entry point for people who want to help and just want to do it immediately? Placing these information at level 3 of the Volunteer Orientation seems too much for volunteers who want to jump in and do something (while, again, the orientation guide is excellent for a skilled, determined volunteer). Since level 3 for translators does not exist yet, it may be too early to say whether or not is practical. (I hope it will be practical). If we make it self-contained, it may be possible for it be consulted on its own for someone who is not seeking deeper engagement with the project. -Rob Regards, Andrea. Rob, I still support this whole notion. But, maybe it would be better to go with more of a checklist style instead of the in-depth explanations you have in this document. What if you ported this to the wiki (Jan suggested this as well. cwiki is easiest for me but I have no object to wiki.openoffice.org) so those of us that are interested can more easily contribute to this worthwhile guide. Of course you are free to start whatever wiki page you wish. But I'll be continuing with the mdtext pages I've started. This is based on my experience with providing orientation to many of our Symphony developers on how Apache projects work and how to participate in such a community. This approach works. Other approaches might work for others as well. But I'm going to give this a try. -Rob Thanks for starting this. It is needed. -- MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
Hi. I think your md pages are SUPERwhat I suggested was an additional wiki page (actually someone else called it postoffice) where we put small tasks that need to be translated / written etc. So I see your pages go hand in hand with Wiki pages, just too different levels of interaction with the community. jan On 31 October 2012 16:59, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/28/2012 04:30 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 23/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote: New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ This is an excellent resource. But we received a few requests from prospective volunteers this weekend and I'm believing it would be overwhelming to point them there. I still believe these documents are excellent, but probably they are assuming our volunteer is above average, or at least willing to engage deeply with the project. They would be perfect for me, for you, or for a newcomer like Jan who has the skills and the mindset to understand in detail how things work. And how do we know in advance which volunteers are like Jan and which are not? I think we should find some way to point them to the info and say that they are welcome to jump in and ignore this all, or skim it in parallel with direct participation, or read through this stuff first. It is entirely up to them. But generally, the more one needs to interact with other project participants and other systems and even other parts of Apache, the more this information becomes useful. Although not stated, one could almost say that Level 4 would be becoming a Committer. So you are correct that this is a track for a more determined volunteer, But we will also have (and we do have: most volunteers I see on the mailing lists in Italian fall in this category) volunteers who don't care that much about OpenOffice as a project: they use the product and just want to give something back. They want to scratch an itch, or just to do something, but they are very task-oriented: they want something to do rather than something to read. For example, we may have translation volunteers who would be perfectly satisfied if we e-mail them a PO file and tell them to grab POEdit and send the file back; and then they would consider a deeper engagement, but not earlier. Translation volunteers are different in many ways, but even there I think we need some solid orientation material. They won't go far before wondering why they cannot write to Pootle and the website, but others can. That leads us into discussion of roles at Apache, etc. And we really need to expose them to the Apache License at the earliest opportunity. We do no one any favors if we're passing around PO files via private mail, and receiving translations without any public record of contribution. In any case, this is an issue we've had for a while. Becoming a Committer is a higher hurdle than is appropriate for most translation volunteers, due to iCLA, etc. The orientation guides did not create this problem, they merely remind us of it. And indeed they are not totally wrong: knowing how the Apache Board works is not needed to be able to translate a press release, or a few OpenOffice strings, into Italian. Could it be that we need a practical entry point for people who want to help and just want to do it immediately? Placing these information at level 3 of the Volunteer Orientation seems too much for volunteers who want to jump in and do something (while, again, the orientation guide is excellent for a skilled, determined volunteer). Since level 3 for translators does not exist yet, it may be too early to say whether or not is practical. (I hope it will be practical). If we make it self-contained, it may be possible for it be consulted on its own for someone who is not seeking deeper engagement with the project. -Rob Regards, Andrea. Rob, I still support this whole notion. But, maybe it would be better to go with more of a checklist style instead of the in-depth explanations you have in this document. What if you ported this to the wiki (Jan suggested this as well. cwiki is easiest for me but I have no object to wiki.openoffice.org) so those of us that are interested can more easily contribute to this worthwhile guide. Of course you are free to start whatever wiki page you wish. But I'll be continuing with the mdtext pages I've started. This is based on my experience with providing orientation to many of our Symphony developers on how Apache projects work and how to participate in such a community. This approach works. Other approaches might work for others as well. But I'm going to
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 1:46 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. I think your md pages are SUPERwhat I suggested was an additional wiki page (actually someone else called it postoffice) where we put small tasks that need to be translated / written etc. So I see your pages go hand in hand with Wiki pages, just too different levels of interaction with the community. Right. So maybe when we do a wider call for volunteers we can offer three tracks: 1) Sign up for ooo-dev and drink from the firehose (our only current option) 2) A short intro on the wiki, one that doesn't exist yet, but maybe someone can write one. 3) A longer self-paced intro on the website (what I'm working on) They are volunteers, so we can't force them to do anything. But we can offer them a few choices. I'm happy to provide one of those choices. Who wants to provide another? -Rob jan On 31 October 2012 16:59, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/28/2012 04:30 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 23/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote: New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ This is an excellent resource. But we received a few requests from prospective volunteers this weekend and I'm believing it would be overwhelming to point them there. I still believe these documents are excellent, but probably they are assuming our volunteer is above average, or at least willing to engage deeply with the project. They would be perfect for me, for you, or for a newcomer like Jan who has the skills and the mindset to understand in detail how things work. And how do we know in advance which volunteers are like Jan and which are not? I think we should find some way to point them to the info and say that they are welcome to jump in and ignore this all, or skim it in parallel with direct participation, or read through this stuff first. It is entirely up to them. But generally, the more one needs to interact with other project participants and other systems and even other parts of Apache, the more this information becomes useful. Although not stated, one could almost say that Level 4 would be becoming a Committer. So you are correct that this is a track for a more determined volunteer, But we will also have (and we do have: most volunteers I see on the mailing lists in Italian fall in this category) volunteers who don't care that much about OpenOffice as a project: they use the product and just want to give something back. They want to scratch an itch, or just to do something, but they are very task-oriented: they want something to do rather than something to read. For example, we may have translation volunteers who would be perfectly satisfied if we e-mail them a PO file and tell them to grab POEdit and send the file back; and then they would consider a deeper engagement, but not earlier. Translation volunteers are different in many ways, but even there I think we need some solid orientation material. They won't go far before wondering why they cannot write to Pootle and the website, but others can. That leads us into discussion of roles at Apache, etc. And we really need to expose them to the Apache License at the earliest opportunity. We do no one any favors if we're passing around PO files via private mail, and receiving translations without any public record of contribution. In any case, this is an issue we've had for a while. Becoming a Committer is a higher hurdle than is appropriate for most translation volunteers, due to iCLA, etc. The orientation guides did not create this problem, they merely remind us of it. And indeed they are not totally wrong: knowing how the Apache Board works is not needed to be able to translate a press release, or a few OpenOffice strings, into Italian. Could it be that we need a practical entry point for people who want to help and just want to do it immediately? Placing these information at level 3 of the Volunteer Orientation seems too much for volunteers who want to jump in and do something (while, again, the orientation guide is excellent for a skilled, determined volunteer). Since level 3 for translators does not exist yet, it may be too early to say whether or not is practical. (I hope it will be practical). If we make it self-contained, it may be possible for it be consulted on its own for someone who is not seeking deeper engagement with the project. -Rob Regards, Andrea. Rob, I still support this whole notion. But, maybe it would be better to go with more of a checklist style instead of the in-depth explanations you have in this document. What if you ported this to
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On 10/31/2012 11:36 AM, jan iversen wrote: +1 to your 3 layer strategy. I have made a proposal for the wiki page, however I am not competent to fill in the tasks. http://wiki.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=Communication/new_contributorsaction=submit I have NOT linked it in anywhere, but a natural link would in participation on the main page. Jan. OK, I will bail out from this for now, and see what else develops here. You know what they say about too many cooks... :/ Looking forward to interesting results from both Rob and Jan. I will certainly help as I see a need. On 31 October 2012 18:59, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 1:46 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. I think your md pages are SUPERwhat I suggested was an additional wiki page (actually someone else called it postoffice) where we put small tasks that need to be translated / written etc. So I see your pages go hand in hand with Wiki pages, just too different levels of interaction with the community. Right. So maybe when we do a wider call for volunteers we can offer three tracks: 1) Sign up for ooo-dev and drink from the firehose (our only current option) 2) A short intro on the wiki, one that doesn't exist yet, but maybe someone can write one. 3) A longer self-paced intro on the website (what I'm working on) They are volunteers, so we can't force them to do anything. But we can offer them a few choices. I'm happy to provide one of those choices. Who wants to provide another? -Rob jan On 31 October 2012 16:59, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/28/2012 04:30 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 23/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote: New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ This is an excellent resource. But we received a few requests from prospective volunteers this weekend and I'm believing it would be overwhelming to point them there. I still believe these documents are excellent, but probably they are assuming our volunteer is above average, or at least willing to engage deeply with the project. They would be perfect for me, for you, or for a newcomer like Jan who has the skills and the mindset to understand in detail how things work. And how do we know in advance which volunteers are like Jan and which are not? I think we should find some way to point them to the info and say that they are welcome to jump in and ignore this all, or skim it in parallel with direct participation, or read through this stuff first. It is entirely up to them. But generally, the more one needs to interact with other project participants and other systems and even other parts of Apache, the more this information becomes useful. Although not stated, one could almost say that Level 4 would be becoming a Committer. So you are correct that this is a track for a more determined volunteer, But we will also have (and we do have: most volunteers I see on the mailing lists in Italian fall in this category) volunteers who don't care that much about OpenOffice as a project: they use the product and just want to give something back. They want to scratch an itch, or just to do something, but they are very task-oriented: they want something to do rather than something to read. For example, we may have translation volunteers who would be perfectly satisfied if we e-mail them a PO file and tell them to grab POEdit and send the file back; and then they would consider a deeper engagement, but not earlier. Translation volunteers are different in many ways, but even there I think we need some solid orientation material. They won't go far before wondering why they cannot write to Pootle and the website, but others can. That leads us into discussion of roles at Apache, etc. And we really need to expose them to the Apache License at the earliest opportunity. We do no one any favors if we're passing around PO files via private mail, and receiving translations without any public record of contribution. In any case, this is an issue we've had for a while. Becoming a Committer is a higher hurdle than is appropriate for most translation volunteers, due to iCLA, etc. The orientation guides did not create this problem, they merely remind us of it. And indeed they are not totally wrong: knowing how the Apache Board works is not needed to be able to translate a press release, or a few OpenOffice strings, into Italian. Could it be that we need a practical entry point for people who want to help and just want to do it immediately? Placing these information at level 3 of the Volunteer Orientation seems too much for volunteers who want to jump in and do something (while, again, the orientation guide is excellent for a skilled, determined volunteer).
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
Hi Andrea, Hi all, 2012/10/28 Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org On 23/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote: New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/orientation/http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ This is an excellent resource. But we received a few requests from prospective volunteers this weekend and I'm believing it would be overwhelming to point them there. I still believe these documents are excellent, but probably they are assuming our volunteer is above average, or at least willing to engage deeply with the project. They would be perfect for me, for you, or for a newcomer like Jan who has the skills and the mindset to understand in detail how things work. But we will also have (and we do have: most volunteers I see on the mailing lists in Italian fall in this category) volunteers who don't care that much about OpenOffice as a project: they use the product and just want to give something back. They want to scratch an itch, or just to do something, but they are very task-oriented: they want something to do rather than something to read. For example, we may have translation volunteers who would be perfectly satisfied if we e-mail them a PO file and tell them to grab POEdit and send the file back; and then they would consider a deeper engagement, but not earlier. For people willing deeply be involved in the project, the Rob's way is certainly the good one. But for other people who will occasionally participate, why not a Post Office where they could register (for security reasons, acceptation of the license, etc.). When they have time, they can visit the Post Office to see the list of to do tasks, and they can download for instance a translation job. If they think they have the skill to do it, they do the job and send it in the pipeline. The Post Office managers collect the files and can propose them for review before posting them to the right place in the project. So people who not have necessary the skill or the necessary time to be involved deeply in the structure can also participate in the area where they are competent and are not lost for the project. Just an idea. A+ -- gw
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
I think asking me would be wrong...I would come with the much to complicated answers :-) I really like the idea of simple start page, for people who want to help without getting so deeply involved as I am trying to become. May I suggest a wiki page, where we constantly (very frequently write) - these items needs to be translated to (languages missing) - these items (e.g. user doc) needs to be enhanced updated. - and something like, feel free to start with any of these items, that would really help AOO. People like myself, is partly beyond help, meaning the best way to help us, is for someone to be a mentor. Above a given level it becomes too difficult to write documentaion and much easier to have a mentor (which would save this list for a lot of noise, for which I apologize). jan. On 29 October 2012 05:14, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com wrote: On 12-10-28, at 19:30 , Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 23/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote: New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ This is an excellent resource. But we received a few requests from prospective volunteers this weekend and I'm believing it would be overwhelming to point them there. I still believe these documents are excellent, but probably they are assuming our volunteer is above average, or at least willing to engage deeply with the project. They would be perfect for me, for you, or for a newcomer like Jan who has the skills and the mindset to understand in detail how things work. And how do we know in advance which volunteers are like Jan and which are not? I think we should find some way to point them to the info and say that they are welcome to jump in and ignore this all, or skim it in parallel with direct participation, or read through this stuff first. It is entirely up to them. I agree. One thing that worked sometimes at Ye Olde OpenOffice was simply to ask Jan and others what they would want there to make life easier for us all. This strategy has a couple of advantages. One is that by crowdsourcing it one can plausibly get answers that differ from the ones we, so familiar with this site and what we do would not come up with, and two, share the responsibility of improvement with the community affected. That latter is goodness. -louis
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On 23/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote: New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ This is an excellent resource. But we received a few requests from prospective volunteers this weekend and I'm believing it would be overwhelming to point them there. I still believe these documents are excellent, but probably they are assuming our volunteer is above average, or at least willing to engage deeply with the project. They would be perfect for me, for you, or for a newcomer like Jan who has the skills and the mindset to understand in detail how things work. But we will also have (and we do have: most volunteers I see on the mailing lists in Italian fall in this category) volunteers who don't care that much about OpenOffice as a project: they use the product and just want to give something back. They want to scratch an itch, or just to do something, but they are very task-oriented: they want something to do rather than something to read. For example, we may have translation volunteers who would be perfectly satisfied if we e-mail them a PO file and tell them to grab POEdit and send the file back; and then they would consider a deeper engagement, but not earlier. And indeed they are not totally wrong: knowing how the Apache Board works is not needed to be able to translate a press release, or a few OpenOffice strings, into Italian. Could it be that we need a practical entry point for people who want to help and just want to do it immediately? Placing these information at level 3 of the Volunteer Orientation seems too much for volunteers who want to jump in and do something (while, again, the orientation guide is excellent for a skilled, determined volunteer). Regards, Andrea.
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 23/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote: New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ This is an excellent resource. But we received a few requests from prospective volunteers this weekend and I'm believing it would be overwhelming to point them there. I still believe these documents are excellent, but probably they are assuming our volunteer is above average, or at least willing to engage deeply with the project. They would be perfect for me, for you, or for a newcomer like Jan who has the skills and the mindset to understand in detail how things work. And how do we know in advance which volunteers are like Jan and which are not? I think we should find some way to point them to the info and say that they are welcome to jump in and ignore this all, or skim it in parallel with direct participation, or read through this stuff first. It is entirely up to them. But generally, the more one needs to interact with other project participants and other systems and even other parts of Apache, the more this information becomes useful. Although not stated, one could almost say that Level 4 would be becoming a Committer. So you are correct that this is a track for a more determined volunteer, But we will also have (and we do have: most volunteers I see on the mailing lists in Italian fall in this category) volunteers who don't care that much about OpenOffice as a project: they use the product and just want to give something back. They want to scratch an itch, or just to do something, but they are very task-oriented: they want something to do rather than something to read. For example, we may have translation volunteers who would be perfectly satisfied if we e-mail them a PO file and tell them to grab POEdit and send the file back; and then they would consider a deeper engagement, but not earlier. Translation volunteers are different in many ways, but even there I think we need some solid orientation material. They won't go far before wondering why they cannot write to Pootle and the website, but others can. That leads us into discussion of roles at Apache, etc. And we really need to expose them to the Apache License at the earliest opportunity. We do no one any favors if we're passing around PO files via private mail, and receiving translations without any public record of contribution. In any case, this is an issue we've had for a while. Becoming a Committer is a higher hurdle than is appropriate for most translation volunteers, due to iCLA, etc. The orientation guides did not create this problem, they merely remind us of it. And indeed they are not totally wrong: knowing how the Apache Board works is not needed to be able to translate a press release, or a few OpenOffice strings, into Italian. Could it be that we need a practical entry point for people who want to help and just want to do it immediately? Placing these information at level 3 of the Volunteer Orientation seems too much for volunteers who want to jump in and do something (while, again, the orientation guide is excellent for a skilled, determined volunteer). Since level 3 for translators does not exist yet, it may be too early to say whether or not is practical. (I hope it will be practical). If we make it self-contained, it may be possible for it be consulted on its own for someone who is not seeking deeper engagement with the project. -Rob Regards, Andrea.
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On 12-10-28, at 19:30 , Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 23/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote: New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ This is an excellent resource. But we received a few requests from prospective volunteers this weekend and I'm believing it would be overwhelming to point them there. I still believe these documents are excellent, but probably they are assuming our volunteer is above average, or at least willing to engage deeply with the project. They would be perfect for me, for you, or for a newcomer like Jan who has the skills and the mindset to understand in detail how things work. And how do we know in advance which volunteers are like Jan and which are not? I think we should find some way to point them to the info and say that they are welcome to jump in and ignore this all, or skim it in parallel with direct participation, or read through this stuff first. It is entirely up to them. I agree. One thing that worked sometimes at Ye Olde OpenOffice was simply to ask Jan and others what they would want there to make life easier for us all. This strategy has a couple of advantages. One is that by crowdsourcing it one can plausibly get answers that differ from the ones we, so familiar with this site and what we do would not come up with, and two, share the responsibility of improvement with the community affected. That latter is goodness. -louis
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
+1, that was something I could really have used some weeks ago :-) Maybe a word about active volunteers might not be harmful (I think I am in that state now) Jan I. On 23 October 2012 23:30, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list them. Also indicate that you have now completed Level 2. Get the idea? After Level 2 this then could branch off into area-specific lists of start up tasks: how to download and build. How to submit patches. How to update a translation. How to define a new test case. Is any one interested in helping with this? Quick update. I have drafts of a few of the pages ready. 1) New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ 2) Introduction to Contributing to Apache OpenOffice (Level 1): http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-1.html 3) Intermediate Social and Technical Tools (Level 2): http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-2.html (around half done). I could really use some help drafting the area-specific Level 3 and Level 4 pages, from subject matter experts. -Rob
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
After a day of work, maybe I should elaborate on what I mean: Having read your documents in detail, which I really find SUPER, I see one challenge: old people in the mailing list pretty much knows who is working on (sort of responsible for) a given part, so they have no problems with proposals since they know who to approach, and the JFDI methods works well. new volunteers who wants to follow what happens and do a little here and there, will typically not make [proposals] but do JFDI on the wiki, and otherwise look for questions. The last part, those who want to be integrated and help move things, do have a slight problem: [proposals] might not even be responded to, especially if they fall in one of two catagories: - this is something we have discussed before - somebody is working on the theme JFDI method might be even worse, because you spent hours doing something sent it off to a committer and zero I believe in both methods, but I really believe that JFDI should be AFJFDI (asf first if anyone is working on it), and then do it. The proposal part is a bit harder, and maybe your document should state wait with proposals until you are integrated in the commnity. once again, your document are SUPER...the rest is just my experience. jan. On 24 October 2012 10:09, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: +1, that was something I could really have used some weeks ago :-) Maybe a word about active volunteers might not be harmful (I think I am in that state now) Jan I. On 23 October 2012 23:30, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list them. Also indicate that you have now completed Level 2. Get the idea? After Level 2 this then could branch off into area-specific lists of start up tasks: how to download and build. How to submit patches. How to update a translation. How to define a new test case. Is any one interested in helping with this? Quick update. I have drafts of a few of the pages ready. 1) New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ 2) Introduction to Contributing to Apache OpenOffice (Level 1): http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-1.html 3) Intermediate Social and Technical Tools (Level 2): http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-2.html (around half done). I could really use some help drafting the area-specific Level 3 and Level 4 pages, from subject matter experts. -Rob
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 12:30 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: After a day of work, maybe I should elaborate on what I mean: Having read your documents in detail, which I really find SUPER, I see one challenge: old people in the mailing list pretty much knows who is working on (sort of responsible for) a given part, so they have no problems with proposals since they know who to approach, and the JFDI methods works well. new volunteers who wants to follow what happens and do a little here and there, will typically not make [proposals] but do JFDI on the wiki, and otherwise look for questions. The last part, those who want to be integrated and help move things, do have a slight problem: [proposals] might not even be responded to, especially if they fall in one of two catagories: - this is something we have discussed before - somebody is working on the theme JFDI method might be even worse, because you spent hours doing something sent it off to a committer and zero This is also a possible conflict between two new volunteers, or even two old volunteers. If you go off and work on something for a month without telling anyone, then you risk that someone old or new does the same thing, or similar. That is a point worth mentioning, that for larger jobs, you might want to mention it on the list, not because it is controversial, but just for coordination purposes, so others are aware. Maybe they even offer to help or give some helpful ideas. I can include these ideas in the text. I believe in both methods, but I really believe that JFDI should be AFJFDI (asf first if anyone is working on it), and then do it. The proposal part is a bit harder, and maybe your document should state wait with proposals until you are integrated in the commnity. Certainly for larger tasks, this makes sense. But if it is a quick operation then JFDI works. I suppose it depends on the time-to-JFDI/time-to-post-and-wait-72-hours ratio. For new volunteers they don't have access to SVN, so everything they do is essentially RTC. So submitting their patches is essentially like making a proposal. But the same considerations apply. It might make sense to float the idea first before investing a lot of time in the work. once again, your document are SUPER...the rest is just my experience. jan. On 24 October 2012 10:09, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: +1, that was something I could really have used some weeks ago :-) Maybe a word about active volunteers might not be harmful (I think I am in that state now) Jan I. On 23 October 2012 23:30, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On 10/24/2012 09:40 AM, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 12:30 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: After a day of work, maybe I should elaborate on what I mean: Having read your documents in detail, which I really find SUPER, I see one challenge: old people in the mailing list pretty much knows who is working on (sort of responsible for) a given part, so they have no problems with proposals since they know who to approach, and the JFDI methods works well. new volunteers who wants to follow what happens and do a little here and there, will typically not make [proposals] but do JFDI on the wiki, and otherwise look for questions. The last part, those who want to be integrated and help move things, do have a slight problem: [proposals] might not even be responded to, especially if they fall in one of two catagories: - this is something we have discussed before - somebody is working on the theme JFDI method might be even worse, because you spent hours doing something sent it off to a committer and zero This is also a possible conflict between two new volunteers, or even two old volunteers. If you go off and work on something for a month without telling anyone, then you risk that someone old or new does the same thing, or similar. That is a point worth mentioning, that for larger jobs, you might want to mention it on the list, not because it is controversial, but just for coordination purposes, so others are aware. Maybe they even offer to help or give some helpful ideas. I can include these ideas in the text. I believe in both methods, but I really believe that JFDI should be AFJFDI (asf first if anyone is working on it), and then do it. The proposal part is a bit harder, and maybe your document should state wait with proposals until you are integrated in the commnity. Certainly for larger tasks, this makes sense. But if it is a quick operation then JFDI works. I suppose it depends on the time-to-JFDI/time-to-post-and-wait-72-hours ratio. For new volunteers they don't have access to SVN, so everything they do is essentially RTC. So submitting their patches is essentially like making a proposal. But the same considerations apply. It might make sense to float the idea first before investing a lot of time in the work. once again, your document are SUPER...the rest is just my experience. jan. On 24 October 2012 10:09, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: +1, that was something I could really have used some weeks ago :-) Maybe a word about active volunteers might not be harmful (I think I am in that state now) Jan I. On 23 October 2012 23:30, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
+1 Anything is better than nothing !!! and afterwards it can be improved. jan On 24 October 2012 18:49, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/24/2012 09:40 AM, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 12:30 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: After a day of work, maybe I should elaborate on what I mean: Having read your documents in detail, which I really find SUPER, I see one challenge: old people in the mailing list pretty much knows who is working on (sort of responsible for) a given part, so they have no problems with proposals since they know who to approach, and the JFDI methods works well. new volunteers who wants to follow what happens and do a little here and there, will typically not make [proposals] but do JFDI on the wiki, and otherwise look for questions. The last part, those who want to be integrated and help move things, do have a slight problem: [proposals] might not even be responded to, especially if they fall in one of two catagories: - this is something we have discussed before - somebody is working on the theme JFDI method might be even worse, because you spent hours doing something sent it off to a committer and zero This is also a possible conflict between two new volunteers, or even two old volunteers. If you go off and work on something for a month without telling anyone, then you risk that someone old or new does the same thing, or similar. That is a point worth mentioning, that for larger jobs, you might want to mention it on the list, not because it is controversial, but just for coordination purposes, so others are aware. Maybe they even offer to help or give some helpful ideas. I can include these ideas in the text. I believe in both methods, but I really believe that JFDI should be AFJFDI (asf first if anyone is working on it), and then do it. The proposal part is a bit harder, and maybe your document should state wait with proposals until you are integrated in the commnity. Certainly for larger tasks, this makes sense. But if it is a quick operation then JFDI works. I suppose it depends on the time-to-JFDI/time-to-post-and-**wait-72-hours ratio. For new volunteers they don't have access to SVN, so everything they do is essentially RTC. So submitting their patches is essentially like making a proposal. But the same considerations apply. It might make sense to float the idea first before investing a lot of time in the work. once again, your document are SUPER...the rest is just my experience. jan. On 24 October 2012 10:09, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: +1, that was something I could really have used some weeks ago :-) Maybe a word about active volunteers might not be harmful (I think I am in that state now) Jan I. On 23 October 2012 23:30, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4)
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list them. Also indicate that you have now completed Level 2. Get the idea? After Level 2 this then could branch off into area-specific lists of start up tasks: how to download and build. How to submit patches. How to update a translation. How to define a new test case. Is any one interested in helping with this? Quick update. I have drafts of a few of the pages ready. 1) New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ 2) Introduction to Contributing to Apache OpenOffice (Level 1): http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-1.html 3) Intermediate Social and Technical Tools (Level 2): http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-2.html (around half done). I could really use some help drafting the area-specific Level 3 and Level 4 pages, from subject matter experts. -Rob
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
Excellent work Rob this is a great way to help manage contributors! From: Rob Weir robw...@apache.org To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 5:30 PM Subject: Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list them. Also indicate that you have now completed Level 2. Get the idea? After Level 2 this then could branch off into area-specific lists of start up tasks: how to download and build. How to submit patches. How to update a translation. How to define a new test case. Is any one interested in helping with this? Quick update. I have drafts of a few of the pages ready. 1) New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ 2) Introduction to Contributing to Apache OpenOffice (Level 1): http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-1.html 3) Intermediate Social and Technical Tools (Level 2): http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-2.html (around half done). I could really use some help drafting the area-specific Level 3 and Level 4 pages, from subject matter experts. -Rob
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On 10/20/12 10:06 AM, jan iversen wrote: You are quite right, I might not be the typical volunteer, and it is very important to find a hook where you can start, I had the luck that juergen and andrea gave me a starting point. Your list is quite ok, just lets call it something neutral, like help to get started. I think part of the problem is that we have sometimes too much information for the same things and it is not well structured. For example the building guides, we have several pages describing how to build AOO. Some of these pages are old and out-dated or incomplete. And we have the new guide which is not the first hit when you search for it (at least I find always the old ones first). I think cleanup of the available info would be also of great help. And we should make clear that asking questions is ok and wanted, it gives not really stupid questions. We can try to use any question to improve things, we can ask ourselves why was this question asked and why wasn't the potentially available information not found... Juergen jan On 20 October 2012 00:24, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:16 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is important to remember, that a volunteer is not signing up for anything. A volunteer, in my view, is a person who wants to help with his/hers skillset...so if we start saying you have to pass level x before continuing we have already lost (At least I can relate that to myself) That might be true for you. But I can tell you from experience that we've had volunteer after volunteer who have posted a note to this list, said they wanted to help, stuck around for a few days, and then were never heard of again. They never found a hook that they could attach themselves to. They never figured out how to get started. The couldn't find where to get started. The lack of accomplishment and progress leads to frustration, and then they are gone. Maybe we can find some way of expressing this without offering too much offense ? -Rob I have been in this business since 1975, and I have never made it through any of all these master classes and other exams. I am just one of the guys who get things done, like in the early days before tcp/ip. What I am trying to say is, let´s help people work with usthat´s what it´s all about, if we can help people to easier help us, then we have a win-win situation. And in respect of introducing myself, which I forgot please read this resume: http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/User:JanIversen jan. Jan. On 19 October 2012 23:08, Rob Weir rabas...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 19, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/19/2012 01:07 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: To make it more concrete, this is what Level 1 might look like: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-1.html -Rob This is very good! I esp like the last part about providing a way for volunteers to sign up if you will. This will be a nice touch. I'm also wondering if there's some way to tie this in to our current Help Wanted page: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Help+Wanted Yes, It is worth looking at the new volunteer view of things, from end to end. My current thinking is this: as we scale the number of volunteers we'll soon want a better way to track items like these. Maybe putting them into BZ would work? Introduce a new field to record difficulty in BZ and filters to list unassigned easy issues? Maybe someone has some ideas? Level 1 tasks: 1) Read
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On 10/19/12, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Well this is why OOo was structure the way it was. Is a bit funny when Apache people came and wanted to make us be more equals, no ECC, no NLC, no MarCon, Project Lead, Co-leads, no distinction between developers and normal randome dude at the support ML. Now trying to find who will do what, is becoming HUGE 'managing' nightmare. I a not saying that OOo structure was the best one to handle things but having so many projects and so many tasks did demand some kind of categorization. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. The thing is we kinda already had that. At least to an extend, again it wasnt the perfect 'all-you-need-to-know bibile'. But we had 'contributing' which was a pseudo-project to collect 'getting started guides' for the different vains the project was going. This will direct new users to art, marketing, support, native-lang, programming or qa/testing. https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/contributing/ Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list them. Also indicate that you have now completed Level 2. Get the idea? After Level 2 this then could branch off into area-specific lists of start up tasks: how to download and build. How to submit patches. How to update a translation. How to define a new test case. Is any one interested in helping with this? -Rob -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:47 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: 3) +1, but I will never understand why it is a mailing list and not a forum, where it is so much easier to look at history Oh please, not again... mailing lists have many advantages over web forums: 1. Speed (the emails arrive automagically, are text-only -most of the time-), no waiting for forum web pages to load, no adverts, no footers, no colors, no graphical sig files, no animated gifs to look at, no delay to log-in, messages just arrive to your mailbox 2. Easy archival (just set a rule and archive your list email to a given subfolder or a given GMail Label) 3. Reply speed (most of my on-line time is spent loking at the gmail inbox, when something of interest arrives -ie ooo-dev with some interesting subject line- I click and read it immediately). 4. Sense of community: it´s much easier to deal with troublemakers, spammers and trolls etc on a mailing list (just ban his email address) than on web forums. ...and that just are the most obvious ones off the top of my head on a Sunday at 4:50am local time... FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act - George Orwell
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
Sorry, it seemed my remark sparked quite some feelings, that was not my intention ! But not having been on the list for very long, means that there a lot of history I dont have, and the mailer didnt exactly like when I tried to get all messages. During my research for a updated l10n process, I have often heard that has been discussed before, which makes me go search for old mail. In a forum we would have more catagories than just one mailling list, making it easier to find relevant old information. That was all that was in my remark (getting history). Jan. On 21 October 2012 09:50, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:47 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: 3) +1, but I will never understand why it is a mailing list and not a forum, where it is so much easier to look at history Oh please, not again... mailing lists have many advantages over web forums: 1. Speed (the emails arrive automagically, are text-only -most of the time-), no waiting for forum web pages to load, no adverts, no footers, no colors, no graphical sig files, no animated gifs to look at, no delay to log-in, messages just arrive to your mailbox 2. Easy archival (just set a rule and archive your list email to a given subfolder or a given GMail Label) 3. Reply speed (most of my on-line time is spent loking at the gmail inbox, when something of interest arrives -ie ooo-dev with some interesting subject line- I click and read it immediately). 4. Sense of community: it´s much easier to deal with troublemakers, spammers and trolls etc on a mailing list (just ban his email address) than on web forums. ...and that just are the most obvious ones off the top of my head on a Sunday at 4:50am local time... FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act - George Orwell
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 4:17 AM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.comwrote: Sorry, it seemed my remark sparked quite some feelings, that was not my intention ! But not having been on the list for very long, means that there a lot of history I dont have, and the mailer didnt exactly like when I tried to get all messages. During my research for a updated l10n process, I have often heard that has been discussed before, which makes me go search for old mail. In a forum we would have more catagories than just one mailling list, making it easier to find relevant old information. That was all that was in my remark (getting history). There is a point to that, usually mailing list are backed up on other services like gmame and nabbel, this are more web-friendly ui to find relevant email from the past. That is usually what I do to find conversations. I still dont have much experience with Markmail to be able to do quick searches, plus I think this is only there for the old ML. Jan. On 21 October 2012 09:50, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:47 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: 3) +1, but I will never understand why it is a mailing list and not a forum, where it is so much easier to look at history Oh please, not again... mailing lists have many advantages over web forums: 1. Speed (the emails arrive automagically, are text-only -most of the time-), no waiting for forum web pages to load, no adverts, no footers, no colors, no graphical sig files, no animated gifs to look at, no delay to log-in, messages just arrive to your mailbox 2. Easy archival (just set a rule and archive your list email to a given subfolder or a given GMail Label) 3. Reply speed (most of my on-line time is spent loking at the gmail inbox, when something of interest arrives -ie ooo-dev with some interesting subject line- I click and read it immediately). 4. Sense of community: it´s much easier to deal with troublemakers, spammers and trolls etc on a mailing list (just ban his email address) than on web forums. ...and that just are the most obvious ones off the top of my head on a Sunday at 4:50am local time... FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act - George Orwell -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
Sorry, I think I was a bit to argumentative last night, I really like your idea I have added a few comments below. jan. On 20 October 2012 00:18, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 5:47 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is a good starting point, however I dont like the notation level 1, is looks like a graduation process, and I have to ask myself where am I on that latter. I don't want suggest that everyone must go through these steps. An experienced open source volunteer probably would just skim this material. Someone who is a Committer on another Apache project would probably skip over it altogether. The name Level 1 doesn't matter. We can call it Stage 1, or even Introduction. But there is an explicit ordering, and giving numbers is the natural way to express an ordering. But I am sensitive to having these stages give the feeling of accomplishment without becoming unwelcome status markers. Your list is quite OK, may I suggest calling help to get started, and of course you are right about the numbering, it was the sense of having to cross a bridge that caught me. 1) Introduce yourself (by the way I think I have forgotten that). why do it on the mailling list, when Wiki ask you for more or less the exact same type of information. This is more for the benefit of existing project volunteers already subscribed to ooo-dev. This gives them the opportunity to see who is getting involved. They might recognize some names. If so they can reach out to offer additional help and encouragement. 2) I like that. 3) +1, but I will never understand why it is a mailing list and not a forum, where it is so much easier to look at history Mailing lists are the lowest common denominator technologies. You can access email from nearly any device, online or offline, using plain text. It is important to note that as a project we don't directly control mailing lists, websites, Bugzilla, etc., except at the level of the content and application admin functions. The sysadmin functions are done ASF-wide by a group of volunteers that we call the Apache Infrastructure team. Since they are maintaining services for over 100 projects, there are limits to how much customization each project can have. This is a consideration for maintenance as well as server resources and security. So there is a something like a menu of tools we have access to, and which are supported by the Infra team. But changing the menu is more difficult. 4+5) yes, but that has not much to do specifically with AOO. Right. But these are practical issues that have come up with past volunteers. For any such document we need to assume some initial skill/knowledge level. This means those who have these skills already will find some items unnecessary. This is hard to avoid. 7) the project planning part seems a bit of a contradiction, look at localization planning as an example. Maybe calling it Project Coordination would be more accurate. CWiki is what we've been using to coordinate the various efforts of a major project-wide initiative, like a specific release. For example, we're using a page now to coordinate graduation-related infrastructure changes: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Graduation+Infrastructure+Changes I think it is wise to have coordination pages, and needed with the number of people involved. Sorry for being frank, I do not want to be non-polite, but a lot of these items just highlight my difficulties. Nothing on this page is going to help with the current localization process. I'm hoping that, with your help, we resolve that in parallel. I know that, I am past most of these items, but they are important for other volunteers, I assume you saw the list I made on l10n, and got one very long reply related to localization. I work quite a lot at the moment to get the proposal finished and the l10n.openoffice.org updated. -Rob All aside, I think we are making huge steps in the right direction and that is what matters jan. On 19 October 2012 22:07, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
You are quite right, I might not be the typical volunteer, and it is very important to find a hook where you can start, I had the luck that juergen and andrea gave me a starting point. Your list is quite ok, just lets call it something neutral, like help to get started. jan On 20 October 2012 00:24, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:16 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is important to remember, that a volunteer is not signing up for anything. A volunteer, in my view, is a person who wants to help with his/hers skillset...so if we start saying you have to pass level x before continuing we have already lost (At least I can relate that to myself) That might be true for you. But I can tell you from experience that we've had volunteer after volunteer who have posted a note to this list, said they wanted to help, stuck around for a few days, and then were never heard of again. They never found a hook that they could attach themselves to. They never figured out how to get started. The couldn't find where to get started. The lack of accomplishment and progress leads to frustration, and then they are gone. Maybe we can find some way of expressing this without offering too much offense ? -Rob I have been in this business since 1975, and I have never made it through any of all these master classes and other exams. I am just one of the guys who get things done, like in the early days before tcp/ip. What I am trying to say is, let´s help people work with usthat´s what it´s all about, if we can help people to easier help us, then we have a win-win situation. And in respect of introducing myself, which I forgot please read this resume: http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/User:JanIversen jan. Jan. On 19 October 2012 23:08, Rob Weir rabas...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 19, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/19/2012 01:07 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: To make it more concrete, this is what Level 1 might look like: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-1.html -Rob This is very good! I esp like the last part about providing a way for volunteers to sign up if you will. This will be a nice touch. I'm also wondering if there's some way to tie this in to our current Help Wanted page: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Help+Wanted Yes, It is worth looking at the new volunteer view of things, from end to end. My current thinking is this: as we scale the number of volunteers we'll soon want a better way to track items like these. Maybe putting them into BZ would work? Introduce a new field to record difficulty in BZ and filters to list unassigned easy issues? Maybe someone has some ideas? Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
Le 19/10/12 18:17, Rob Weir a écrit : I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list them. Also indicate that you have now completed Level 2. Get the idea? After Level 2 this then could branch off into area-specific lists of start up tasks: how to download and build. How to submit patches. How to update a translation. How to define a new test case. Is any one interested in helping with this? -Rob hello, I think it is a good idea to have steps Sylvain DENIS
RE: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 18:24:44 -0400 Subject: Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks From: robw...@apache.org To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:16 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is important to remember, that a volunteer is not signing up for anything. A volunteer, in my view, is a person who wants to help with his/hers skillset...so if we start saying you have to pass level x before continuing we have already lost (At least I can relate that to myself) That might be true for you. But I can tell you from experience that we've had volunteer after volunteer who have posted a note to this list, said they wanted to help, stuck around for a few days, and then were never heard of again. They never found a hook that they could attach themselves to. They never figured out how to get started. The couldn't find where to get started. The lack of accomplishment and progress leads to frustration, and then they are gone. Hi Rob My name is Manuel, from Argentina. I've just subscribed (about 10 days ago) to this mailing list, willing to learn and try to contribute on the UX effort. I'm not a developer (as in software dev) and I've never contributed to open source software before. A total newbie ;-) So, I've been told to read the Project wiki to identify open tasks. I've been trying to keep up with this mailing list, and understand the info published in Cwiki, or Mwiki. I have to admit I've been having a hard time doing so, because the amount of information is quite overwhelming for a newbie like me. And if I want to start doing something, I really don't know were to. I could have continued asking for help, but I realized that it was a better idea to go on reading about the project, and try to understand how you people get organized, and what's expected of me (and others like me). I'm not thinking about giving up (just yet ;-) but I think it would be a great idea to write some kind of a newbies' tutorial, like the one you're proposing. Just gathering all the already existing info, and encouraging volunteers to do this or that for themselves. And we should find it when clicking on the I want to participate in OpenOffice link, on the landing page in openoffice.org. It would be most useful for us. +1 on the staging accomplishment you propose. Personally, I like it. It gives the sense of progress. And it would be great if specific areas within the project could use this model on their sub-projects as well (development first steps, marketing first steps, etc). -Manuel Maybe we can find some way of expressing this without offering too much offense ? -Rob I have been in this business since 1975, and I have never made it through any of all these master classes and other exams. I am just one of the guys who get things done, like in the early days before tcp/ip. What I am trying to say is, let´s help people work with usthat´s what it´s all about, if we can help people to easier help us, then we have a win-win situation. And in respect of introducing myself, which I forgot please read this resume: http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/User:JanIversen jan. Jan. On 19 October 2012 23:08, Rob Weir rabas...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 19, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/19/2012 01:07 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: To make it more concrete, this is what Level 1 might look like: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
That is a BIG +++1 from me. Being a new contributors, I could have saved a lot of stupid questions, had I had a reading list. I have spent quite a number of hours (and that of others too) finding things, everybody knows. It would be good to have 1 wiki page with a suggested reading and items to do (get a wiki account etc.). That page can then later have specialized sub pages depending on the type of volunteer. What really bothers me, is that I waste time for many others, who are very polite in helping me get over the first startwith many new volunteers (assuming I am on average) that is a lot of time, that could have been spent on more fruitful things. I agree however that the wording of the page should be choose well, words like suggested reading are far better for those who take things personally. I will gladly review such a page :-) jan. On 19 October 2012 18:17, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list them. Also indicate that you have now completed Level 2. Get the idea? After Level 2 this then could branch off into area-specific lists of start up tasks: how to download and build. How to submit patches. How to update a translation. How to define a new test case. Is any one interested in helping with this? -Rob
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:27 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: That is a BIG +++1 from me. Being a new contributors, I could have saved a lot of stupid questions, had I had a reading list. I have spent quite a number of hours (and that of others too) finding things, everybody knows. It would be good to have 1 wiki page with a suggested reading and items to do (get a wiki account etc.). That page can then later have specialized sub pages depending on the type of volunteer. Right. This is the idea. What really bothers me, is that I waste time for many others, who are very polite in helping me get over the first startwith many new volunteers (assuming I am on average) that is a lot of time, that could have been spent on more fruitful things. Well, I must admit that your recent contributions, enthusiasm and questions have prompted these thoughts. Please don't be bothered that you have questions. This is getting us in the right direction and pointing out where we need to improve. This is good. We all need to keep a good attitude about this. And I think so far we're doing this well. I agree however that the wording of the page should be choose well, words like suggested reading are far better for those who take things personally. Good point. I will gladly review such a page :-) Great. Maybe we can start a thread on L10N list about what the essential skills a new volunteer would need in that area? -Rob jan. On 19 October 2012 18:17, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list them. Also indicate that you have now completed Level 2. Get the idea? After Level 2 this then could branch off into area-specific lists of start up tasks: how to download and build. How to submit patches. How to update a translation. How to define a new test case. Is any one interested in helping with this? -Rob
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
I had a funny feeling, that I was the drop that made it flow over :-) I will make a lists of what I missed and post it on l10n and then we can take that as a starting point. jan. On 19 October 2012 20:04, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:27 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: That is a BIG +++1 from me. Being a new contributors, I could have saved a lot of stupid questions, had I had a reading list. I have spent quite a number of hours (and that of others too) finding things, everybody knows. It would be good to have 1 wiki page with a suggested reading and items to do (get a wiki account etc.). That page can then later have specialized sub pages depending on the type of volunteer. Right. This is the idea. What really bothers me, is that I waste time for many others, who are very polite in helping me get over the first startwith many new volunteers (assuming I am on average) that is a lot of time, that could have been spent on more fruitful things. Well, I must admit that your recent contributions, enthusiasm and questions have prompted these thoughts. Please don't be bothered that you have questions. This is getting us in the right direction and pointing out where we need to improve. This is good. We all need to keep a good attitude about this. And I think so far we're doing this well. I agree however that the wording of the page should be choose well, words like suggested reading are far better for those who take things personally. Good point. I will gladly review such a page :-) Great. Maybe we can start a thread on L10N list about what the essential skills a new volunteer would need in that area? -Rob jan. On 19 October 2012 18:17, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list them. Also indicate that you have now completed Level 2. Get the idea? After Level 2 this then could branch off into area-specific lists of start up tasks: how to download and build. How to submit patches. How to update a translation. How to define a new test case. Is any one interested in helping with this? -Rob
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On 10/19/2012 01:07 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: To make it more concrete, this is what Level 1 might look like: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-1.html -Rob This is very good! I esp like the last part about providing a way for volunteers to sign up if you will. This will be a nice touch. I'm also wondering if there's some way to tie this in to our current Help Wanted page: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Help+Wanted Maybe someone has some ideas? Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list them. Also indicate that you have now completed Level 2. Get the idea? After Level 2 this then could branch off into area-specific lists of start up tasks: how to download and build. How to submit patches. How to update a translation. How to define a new test case. Is any one interested in helping with this? -Rob -- MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On Oct 19, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/19/2012 01:07 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: To make it more concrete, this is what Level 1 might look like: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-1.html -Rob This is very good! I esp like the last part about providing a way for volunteers to sign up if you will. This will be a nice touch. I'm also wondering if there's some way to tie this in to our current Help Wanted page: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Help+Wanted Yes, It is worth looking at the new volunteer view of things, from end to end. My current thinking is this: as we scale the number of volunteers we'll soon want a better way to track items like these. Maybe putting them into BZ would work? Introduce a new field to record difficulty in BZ and filters to list unassigned easy issues? Maybe someone has some ideas? Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list them. Also indicate that you have now completed Level 2. Get the idea? After Level 2 this then could branch off into area-specific lists of start up tasks: how to download and build. How to submit patches. How to update a translation. How to define a new test case. Is any one interested in helping with this? -Rob -- MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
I think it is a good starting point, however I dont like the notation level 1, is looks like a graduation process, and I have to ask myself where am I on that latter. 1) Introduce yourself (by the way I think I have forgotten that). why do it on the mailling list, when Wiki ask you for more or less the exact same type of information. 2) I like that. 3) +1, but I will never understand why it is a mailing list and not a forum, where it is so much easier to look at history 4+5) yes, but that has not much to do specifically with AOO. 7) the project planning part seems a bit of a contradiction, look at localization planning as an example. Sorry for being frank, I do not want to be non-polite, but a lot of these items just highlight my difficulties. All aside, I think we are making huge steps in the right direction and that is what matters jan. On 19 October 2012 22:07, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: To make it more concrete, this is what Level 1 might look like: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-1.html -Rob Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list them. Also indicate that you have now completed Level 2. Get the idea? After Level 2 this then could branch off into area-specific lists of start up tasks: how to download and build. How to submit patches. How to update a translation. How to define a new test case. Is any one interested in helping with this? -Rob
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
I think it is important to remember, that a volunteer is not signing up for anything. A volunteer, in my view, is a person who wants to help with his/hers skillset...so if we start saying you have to pass level x before continuing we have already lost (At least I can relate that to myself) I have been in this business since 1975, and I have never made it through any of all these master classes and other exams. I am just one of the guys who get things done, like in the early days before tcp/ip. What I am trying to say is, let´s help people work with usthat´s what it´s all about, if we can help people to easier help us, then we have a win-win situation. And in respect of introducing myself, which I forgot please read this resume: http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/User:JanIversen jan. Jan. On 19 October 2012 23:08, Rob Weir rabas...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 19, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/19/2012 01:07 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: To make it more concrete, this is what Level 1 might look like: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-1.html -Rob This is very good! I esp like the last part about providing a way for volunteers to sign up if you will. This will be a nice touch. I'm also wondering if there's some way to tie this in to our current Help Wanted page: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Help+Wanted Yes, It is worth looking at the new volunteer view of things, from end to end. My current thinking is this: as we scale the number of volunteers we'll soon want a better way to track items like these. Maybe putting them into BZ would work? Introduce a new field to record difficulty in BZ and filters to list unassigned easy issues? Maybe someone has some ideas? Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list them. Also indicate that you have now completed Level 2. Get the idea? After Level 2 this then could branch off into area-specific lists of start up tasks: how to download and build. How to submit patches. How to update a translation. How to define a new test case. Is any one interested in helping with this? -Rob -- MzK Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. -- Robert Heinlein
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 5:47 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is a good starting point, however I dont like the notation level 1, is looks like a graduation process, and I have to ask myself where am I on that latter. I don't want suggest that everyone must go through these steps. An experienced open source volunteer probably would just skim this material. Someone who is a Committer on another Apache project would probably skip over it altogether. The name Level 1 doesn't matter. We can call it Stage 1, or even Introduction. But there is an explicit ordering, and giving numbers is the natural way to express an ordering. But I am sensitive to having these stages give the feeling of accomplishment without becoming unwelcome status markers. 1) Introduce yourself (by the way I think I have forgotten that). why do it on the mailling list, when Wiki ask you for more or less the exact same type of information. This is more for the benefit of existing project volunteers already subscribed to ooo-dev. This gives them the opportunity to see who is getting involved. They might recognize some names. If so they can reach out to offer additional help and encouragement. 2) I like that. 3) +1, but I will never understand why it is a mailing list and not a forum, where it is so much easier to look at history Mailing lists are the lowest common denominator technologies. You can access email from nearly any device, online or offline, using plain text. It is important to note that as a project we don't directly control mailing lists, websites, Bugzilla, etc., except at the level of the content and application admin functions. The sysadmin functions are done ASF-wide by a group of volunteers that we call the Apache Infrastructure team. Since they are maintaining services for over 100 projects, there are limits to how much customization each project can have. This is a consideration for maintenance as well as server resources and security. So there is a something like a menu of tools we have access to, and which are supported by the Infra team. But changing the menu is more difficult. 4+5) yes, but that has not much to do specifically with AOO. Right. But these are practical issues that have come up with past volunteers. For any such document we need to assume some initial skill/knowledge level. This means those who have these skills already will find some items unnecessary. This is hard to avoid. 7) the project planning part seems a bit of a contradiction, look at localization planning as an example. Maybe calling it Project Coordination would be more accurate. CWiki is what we've been using to coordinate the various efforts of a major project-wide initiative, like a specific release. For example, we're using a page now to coordinate graduation-related infrastructure changes: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Graduation+Infrastructure+Changes Sorry for being frank, I do not want to be non-polite, but a lot of these items just highlight my difficulties. Nothing on this page is going to help with the current localization process. I'm hoping that, with your help, we resolve that in parallel. -Rob All aside, I think we are making huge steps in the right direction and that is what matters jan. On 19 October 2012 22:07, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: To make it more concrete, this is what Level 1 might look like: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-1.html -Rob Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:16 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is important to remember, that a volunteer is not signing up for anything. A volunteer, in my view, is a person who wants to help with his/hers skillset...so if we start saying you have to pass level x before continuing we have already lost (At least I can relate that to myself) That might be true for you. But I can tell you from experience that we've had volunteer after volunteer who have posted a note to this list, said they wanted to help, stuck around for a few days, and then were never heard of again. They never found a hook that they could attach themselves to. They never figured out how to get started. The couldn't find where to get started. The lack of accomplishment and progress leads to frustration, and then they are gone. Maybe we can find some way of expressing this without offering too much offense ? -Rob I have been in this business since 1975, and I have never made it through any of all these master classes and other exams. I am just one of the guys who get things done, like in the early days before tcp/ip. What I am trying to say is, let´s help people work with usthat´s what it´s all about, if we can help people to easier help us, then we have a win-win situation. And in respect of introducing myself, which I forgot please read this resume: http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/User:JanIversen jan. Jan. On 19 October 2012 23:08, Rob Weir rabas...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 19, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/19/2012 01:07 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I am thinking about what new project volunteers need to get started. Obviously there are area-specific things. For example, developers need to know how to download and build. Translation volunteers need to understand Pootle, etc. But there are also some basic things that all volunteers should probably do. Although we have all of this information (or at least most of it) on the website or wikis or mailing list archives, it is scattered all over the place. I think it would be good if we could collect this information (or at least links to this information) into one place and put a linear order behind it, a step of specific steps we want new volunteers to take. Now, I can hear the objections already -- you can't tell volunteers what to do. That is why they are volunteers. You can't regiment them, etc. This is true. But at the scale we need to operate at -- I'm aiming to attract dozens of new volunteers on the project by the end of the year -- we need some structure. So what can we do to make their first 2 weeks in the project easier for them, and easier for us? One idea: Think of the new volunteer startup tasks in terms of stages or levels, a defined set of reading and other activities that leads them to acquire basic skills in our community. For example: To make it more concrete, this is what Level 1 might look like: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/level-1.html -Rob This is very good! I esp like the last part about providing a way for volunteers to sign up if you will. This will be a nice touch. I'm also wondering if there's some way to tie this in to our current Help Wanted page: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Help+Wanted Yes, It is worth looking at the new volunteer view of things, from end to end. My current thinking is this: as we scale the number of volunteers we'll soon want a better way to track items like these. Maybe putting them into BZ would work? Introduce a new field to record difficulty in BZ and filters to list unassigned easy issues? Maybe someone has some ideas? Level 1 tasks: 1) Read the following web pages on the ASF, roles at Apache and the Apache Way 2) Sign up for the following accounts that every volunteer should have: ooo-announce, ooo-dev, ooo-users, MWiki, CWiki, BZ, Forums 3) Read this helpful document on hints for managing your inbox with rules and folders 4) Read this code of conduct page on list etiquette 5) Send a note to ooo-dev list and introduce yourself 6) Edit this wiki page containing project volunteers. Add your name and indicate that you have completed Level 1. Level 2 tasks: 1) Using the Apache CMS in anonymous mode 2) Readings on decision making at Apache 3) Readings on project life cycle and roles within the AOO project 4) Introduction to the various functional groups within the project: development, qa, marketing, UX, documentation, support, localization, etc. 5) Pick one or more functional groups that you want to help with. Edit the volunteer wiki and list them. Also indicate that you have now completed Level 2. Get the idea? After Level 2 this then could branch off
