Re: [openstack-dev] [RFC] Kilo release cycle schedule proposal
OK, it's now official at: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [RFC] Kilo release cycle schedule proposal
+1
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:02 AM, Morgan Fainberg
wrote:
>
>
> On Thursday, September 25, 2014, Thierry Carrez
> wrote:
>>
>> Thierry Carrez wrote:
>> > Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
>> > Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 11
>> > Kilo-2 milestone: Jan 29
>> > Kilo-3 milestone, feature freeze: March 12
>> > 2015.1 ("Kilo") release: Apr 23
>> > L Design Summit: May 18-22
>>
>> Following feedback on the mailing-list and at the cross-project meeting,
>> there is growing consensus that shifting one week to the right would be
>> better. It makes for a short L cycle, but avoids losing 3 weeks between
>> Kilo release and L design summit. That gives:
>>
>> Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
>> Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 18
>> Kilo-2 milestone: Feb 5
>> Kilo-3 milestone, feature freeze: Mar 19
>> 2015.1 ("Kilo") release: Apr 30
>> L Design Summit: May 18-22
>>
>> If you prefer a picture, see attached PDF.
>>
>> --
>> Thierry Carrez (ttx)
>
>
> +1
>
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Sincerely yours,
Sergey Lukjanov
Sahara Technical Lead
(OpenStack Data Processing)
Principal Software Engineer
Mirantis Inc.
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Re: [openstack-dev] [RFC] Kilo release cycle schedule proposal
On Thursday, September 25, 2014, Thierry Carrez
wrote:
> Thierry Carrez wrote:
> > Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
> > Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 11
> > Kilo-2 milestone: Jan 29
> > Kilo-3 milestone, feature freeze: March 12
> > 2015.1 ("Kilo") release: Apr 23
> > L Design Summit: May 18-22
>
> Following feedback on the mailing-list and at the cross-project meeting,
> there is growing consensus that shifting one week to the right would be
> better. It makes for a short L cycle, but avoids losing 3 weeks between
> Kilo release and L design summit. That gives:
>
> Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
> Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 18
> Kilo-2 milestone: Feb 5
> Kilo-3 milestone, feature freeze: Mar 19
> 2015.1 ("Kilo") release: Apr 30
> L Design Summit: May 18-22
>
> If you prefer a picture, see attached PDF.
>
> --
> Thierry Carrez (ttx)
>
+1
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Re: [openstack-dev] [RFC] Kilo release cycle schedule proposal
On 09/25/2014 09:36 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> Thierry Carrez wrote:
>> Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
>> Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 11
>> Kilo-2 milestone: Jan 29
>> Kilo-3 milestone, feature freeze: March 12
>> 2015.1 ("Kilo") release: Apr 23
>> L Design Summit: May 18-22
>
> Following feedback on the mailing-list and at the cross-project meeting,
> there is growing consensus that shifting one week to the right would be
> better. It makes for a short L cycle, but avoids losing 3 weeks between
> Kilo release and L design summit. That gives:
>
> Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
> Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 18
> Kilo-2 milestone: Feb 5
> Kilo-3 milestone, feature freeze: Mar 19
> 2015.1 ("Kilo") release: Apr 30
> L Design Summit: May 18-22
>
> If you prefer a picture, see attached PDF.
+1
-Sean
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Re: [openstack-dev] [RFC] Kilo release cycle schedule proposal
Thierry Carrez wrote:
> Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
> Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 11
> Kilo-2 milestone: Jan 29
> Kilo-3 milestone, feature freeze: March 12
> 2015.1 ("Kilo") release: Apr 23
> L Design Summit: May 18-22
Following feedback on the mailing-list and at the cross-project meeting,
there is growing consensus that shifting one week to the right would be
better. It makes for a short L cycle, but avoids losing 3 weeks between
Kilo release and L design summit. That gives:
Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 18
Kilo-2 milestone: Feb 5
Kilo-3 milestone, feature freeze: Mar 19
2015.1 ("Kilo") release: Apr 30
L Design Summit: May 18-22
If you prefer a picture, see attached PDF.
--
Thierry Carrez (ttx)
kilo.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [openstack-dev] [RFC] Kilo release cycle schedule proposal
On Sep 23, 2014, at 7:53 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 07:42:30AM -0400, Sean Dague wrote:
>> On 09/23/2014 02:56 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> Rather than waste a design summit session about it, I propose we review
>>> the proposed Kilo release cycle schedule on the mailing-list. See
>>> attached PDF for a picture of the proposal.
>>>
>>> The hard date the proposal is built around is the next ("L") Design
>>> Summit week: May 18-22. That pushes back far into May (the farthest
>>> ever). However the M design summit being very likely to come back in
>>> October, the release date was set to April 23 to smooth the difference.
>>>
>>> That makes 3 full weeks between release and design summit (like in
>>> Hong-Kong), allowing for an official "off-week" on the week of May 4-8.
>>
>> Honestly, the off-week really isn't. If we're going to talk about
>> throwing a stall week into the dev cycle for spacing, I'd honestly
>> rather just push the release back, and be clear to folks that the summer
>> cycle is going to be shorter. The off-week I think just causes us to
>> lose momentum.
>
> I didn't really notice anyone stop working in the last off-week we
> had. Changes kept being submitted at normal rate, people kept talking
> on IRC, etc, etc. An off-week is a nice idea in theory but it didn't
> seem to have much effect in practice AFAICT.
>
>>> The rest of the proposal is mostly a no-brainer. Like always, we allow a
>>> longer time for milestone 2, to take into account the end-of-year
>>> holidays. That gives:
>>>
>>> Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
>>> Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 11
>>
>> The one thing that felt weird about the cadence of the 1st milestone in
>> Havana last year was that it was super start / stop. Dec 11 means that
>> we end up with 2 weeks until christmas, so many people are starting to
>> wind down. My suggestion would be to push K1 to Dec 18, because I think
>> you won't get much K2 content landed that week anyway.
>>
>> For US people at least this would change the Dec cadence from:
>>
>> * Holiday Week - Nov 28 is thanksgiving
>> * Dev Week
>> * Milestone Week
>> * Dev Week
>> * sort of Holiday Week
>> * Holiday Week
>>
>> To:
>>
>> * Holiday Week
>> * Dev Week
>> * Dev Week
>> * Milestone Week
>> * sort of Holiday Week
>> * Holiday Week
>>
>> Which I feel is going to get more done. If we take back the off week, we
>> could just shift everything back a week, which makes K2 less split by
>> christmas.
>>
>>> Kilo-2 milestone: Jan 29
>>> Kilo-3 milestone, feature freeze: March 12
>>> 2015.1 ("Kilo") release: Apr 23
>>> L Design Summit: May 18-22
>
> I find it kind of wierd that we have 1 month gap between Kilo being
> released and the L design summit taking place. The design summits are
> supposed to be where we talk about & agree the big themes of the
> release, but we've already had 4+ weeks of working on the release by
> the time the summit takes place ?!?! Not to mention that we branched
I like the extra time, and there are lots of ways to make it productive: do the
little cleanup tasks that are always put off; plan better for the summit
sessions by preparing proof-of-concept code; fix more bugs; work on stable
branches. I don’t think it’s necessary to wait until after the summit to start
any work at all on the next release. We’re certainly not waiting in Oslo.
> even before that, so work actually takes place even further in advance
> of the design summit. I feel this is a contributing factor to the first
> milestone being comparatively less productive than the later milestones
> and causes big work to get pushed out later in the cycle. We really want
> to try and encourage work to happen earlier in the cycles to avoid the
> big crunch in m3. Is there a reason for this big gap between release
> and summit, or can we let Kilo go longer by 2-3 weeks, so we have better
> alignment between design summit happening & milestone1 dev cycle start ?
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
> --
> |: http://berrange.com -o-http://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange/ :|
> |: http://libvirt.org -o- http://virt-manager.org :|
> |: http://autobuild.org -o- http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/ :|
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>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [RFC] Kilo release cycle schedule proposal
On 2014-09-23 15:26:20 + (+), Amir Sadoughi wrote: > Instead of moving the Kilo cycle a week later (April 23 -> April > 30), would it be possible to move the "L" design summit a week > ahead (May 18-22 -> May 11-15). This would extend the L-cycle a > week. Additionally, this would also help with return travel as the > following Monday is Memorial Day; I'd expect return flights > starting on Friday to be worse for the weekend of the 22nd, but I > don't have data on that. Summit dates tend to already be set in stone by the time we're discussing release schedules. The foundation has to negotiate contracts on facilities/hotels a year or more in advance. -- Jeremy Stanley ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [RFC] Kilo release cycle schedule proposal
Instead of moving the Kilo cycle a week later (April 23 -> April 30), would it
be possible to move the "L" design summit a week ahead (May 18-22 -> May
11-15). This would extend the L-cycle a week. Additionally, this would also
help with return travel as the following Monday is Memorial Day; I'd expect
return flights starting on Friday to be worse for the weekend of the 22nd, but
I don't have data on that.
Amir Sadoughi
From: Thierry Carrez [thie...@openstack.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 9:54 AM
To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [RFC] Kilo release cycle schedule proposal
Sean Dague wrote:
> On 09/23/2014 02:56 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Rather than waste a design summit session about it, I propose we review
>> the proposed Kilo release cycle schedule on the mailing-list. See
>> attached PDF for a picture of the proposal.
>>
>> The hard date the proposal is built around is the next ("L") Design
>> Summit week: May 18-22. That pushes back far into May (the farthest
>> ever). However the M design summit being very likely to come back in
>> October, the release date was set to April 23 to smooth the difference.
>>
>> That makes 3 full weeks between release and design summit (like in
>> Hong-Kong), allowing for an official "off-week" on the week of May 4-8.
>
> Honestly, the off-week really isn't. If we're going to talk about
> throwing a stall week into the dev cycle for spacing, I'd honestly
> rather just push the release back, and be clear to folks that the summer
> cycle is going to be shorter. The off-week I think just causes us to
> lose momentum.
Sure. I'm not adding it for the beauty of it. See below.
>> The rest of the proposal is mostly a no-brainer. Like always, we allow a
>> longer time for milestone 2, to take into account the end-of-year
>> holidays. That gives:
>>
>> Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
>> Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 11
>
> The one thing that felt weird about the cadence of the 1st milestone in
> Havana last year was that it was super start / stop. Dec 11 means that
> we end up with 2 weeks until christmas, so many people are starting to
> wind down. My suggestion would be to push K1 to Dec 18, because I think
> you won't get much K2 content landed that week anyway.
>
> For US people at least this would change the Dec cadence from:
>
> * Holiday Week - Nov 28 is thanksgiving
> * Dev Week
> * Milestone Week
> * Dev Week
> * sort of Holiday Week
> * Holiday Week
>
> To:
>
> * Holiday Week
> * Dev Week
> * Dev Week
> * Milestone Week
> * sort of Holiday Week
> * Holiday Week
>
> Which I feel is going to get more done. If we take back the off week, we
> could just shift everything back a week, which makes K2 less split by
> christmas.
So we /could/ do:
Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 18
Kilo-2 milestone: Feb 5
Kilo-3 milestone, feature freeze: March 19
2015.1 ("Kilo") release: Apr 30
L Design Summit: May 18-22
The main issue is that it would make a *very* short L cycle. Our best
bet for the M design summit is the week of October 26, so L release
would be Oct 8 or Oct 15. I placed Kilo release on April 23 on the
original plan to try to limit the impact.
If you think shorter is not an issue, I guess that's a valid option.
--
Thierry Carrez (ttx)
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Re: [openstack-dev] [RFC] Kilo release cycle schedule proposal
Sean Dague wrote:
> On 09/23/2014 02:56 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Rather than waste a design summit session about it, I propose we review
>> the proposed Kilo release cycle schedule on the mailing-list. See
>> attached PDF for a picture of the proposal.
>>
>> The hard date the proposal is built around is the next ("L") Design
>> Summit week: May 18-22. That pushes back far into May (the farthest
>> ever). However the M design summit being very likely to come back in
>> October, the release date was set to April 23 to smooth the difference.
>>
>> That makes 3 full weeks between release and design summit (like in
>> Hong-Kong), allowing for an official "off-week" on the week of May 4-8.
>
> Honestly, the off-week really isn't. If we're going to talk about
> throwing a stall week into the dev cycle for spacing, I'd honestly
> rather just push the release back, and be clear to folks that the summer
> cycle is going to be shorter. The off-week I think just causes us to
> lose momentum.
Sure. I'm not adding it for the beauty of it. See below.
>> The rest of the proposal is mostly a no-brainer. Like always, we allow a
>> longer time for milestone 2, to take into account the end-of-year
>> holidays. That gives:
>>
>> Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
>> Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 11
>
> The one thing that felt weird about the cadence of the 1st milestone in
> Havana last year was that it was super start / stop. Dec 11 means that
> we end up with 2 weeks until christmas, so many people are starting to
> wind down. My suggestion would be to push K1 to Dec 18, because I think
> you won't get much K2 content landed that week anyway.
>
> For US people at least this would change the Dec cadence from:
>
> * Holiday Week - Nov 28 is thanksgiving
> * Dev Week
> * Milestone Week
> * Dev Week
> * sort of Holiday Week
> * Holiday Week
>
> To:
>
> * Holiday Week
> * Dev Week
> * Dev Week
> * Milestone Week
> * sort of Holiday Week
> * Holiday Week
>
> Which I feel is going to get more done. If we take back the off week, we
> could just shift everything back a week, which makes K2 less split by
> christmas.
So we /could/ do:
Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 18
Kilo-2 milestone: Feb 5
Kilo-3 milestone, feature freeze: March 19
2015.1 ("Kilo") release: Apr 30
L Design Summit: May 18-22
The main issue is that it would make a *very* short L cycle. Our best
bet for the M design summit is the week of October 26, so L release
would be Oct 8 or Oct 15. I placed Kilo release on April 23 on the
original plan to try to limit the impact.
If you think shorter is not an issue, I guess that's a valid option.
--
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Re: [openstack-dev] [RFC] Kilo release cycle schedule proposal
On 2014-09-23 12:53:42 +0100 (+0100), Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > I didn't really notice anyone stop working in the last off-week we > had. Changes kept being submitted at normal rate, people kept talking > on IRC, etc, etc. An off-week is a nice idea in theory but it didn't > seem to have much effect in practice AFAICT. [...] The project infrastructure team used the "off" week to upgrade Gerrit, because in theory nobody was using it. In practice, there was a bit more going on that week than we expected (so we just kept reminding everyone they should be off--mildly hypocritical of us, I know). -- Jeremy Stanley ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [RFC] Kilo release cycle schedule proposal
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 07:42:30AM -0400, Sean Dague wrote:
> On 09/23/2014 02:56 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Rather than waste a design summit session about it, I propose we review
> > the proposed Kilo release cycle schedule on the mailing-list. See
> > attached PDF for a picture of the proposal.
> >
> > The hard date the proposal is built around is the next ("L") Design
> > Summit week: May 18-22. That pushes back far into May (the farthest
> > ever). However the M design summit being very likely to come back in
> > October, the release date was set to April 23 to smooth the difference.
> >
> > That makes 3 full weeks between release and design summit (like in
> > Hong-Kong), allowing for an official "off-week" on the week of May 4-8.
>
> Honestly, the off-week really isn't. If we're going to talk about
> throwing a stall week into the dev cycle for spacing, I'd honestly
> rather just push the release back, and be clear to folks that the summer
> cycle is going to be shorter. The off-week I think just causes us to
> lose momentum.
I didn't really notice anyone stop working in the last off-week we
had. Changes kept being submitted at normal rate, people kept talking
on IRC, etc, etc. An off-week is a nice idea in theory but it didn't
seem to have much effect in practice AFAICT.
> > The rest of the proposal is mostly a no-brainer. Like always, we allow a
> > longer time for milestone 2, to take into account the end-of-year
> > holidays. That gives:
> >
> > Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
> > Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 11
>
> The one thing that felt weird about the cadence of the 1st milestone in
> Havana last year was that it was super start / stop. Dec 11 means that
> we end up with 2 weeks until christmas, so many people are starting to
> wind down. My suggestion would be to push K1 to Dec 18, because I think
> you won't get much K2 content landed that week anyway.
>
> For US people at least this would change the Dec cadence from:
>
> * Holiday Week - Nov 28 is thanksgiving
> * Dev Week
> * Milestone Week
> * Dev Week
> * sort of Holiday Week
> * Holiday Week
>
> To:
>
> * Holiday Week
> * Dev Week
> * Dev Week
> * Milestone Week
> * sort of Holiday Week
> * Holiday Week
>
> Which I feel is going to get more done. If we take back the off week, we
> could just shift everything back a week, which makes K2 less split by
> christmas.
>
> > Kilo-2 milestone: Jan 29
> > Kilo-3 milestone, feature freeze: March 12
> > 2015.1 ("Kilo") release: Apr 23
> > L Design Summit: May 18-22
I find it kind of wierd that we have 1 month gap between Kilo being
released and the L design summit taking place. The design summits are
supposed to be where we talk about & agree the big themes of the
release, but we've already had 4+ weeks of working on the release by
the time the summit takes place ?!?! Not to mention that we branched
even before that, so work actually takes place even further in advance
of the design summit. I feel this is a contributing factor to the first
milestone being comparatively less productive than the later milestones
and causes big work to get pushed out later in the cycle. We really want
to try and encourage work to happen earlier in the cycles to avoid the
big crunch in m3. Is there a reason for this big gap between release
and summit, or can we let Kilo go longer by 2-3 weeks, so we have better
alignment between design summit happening & milestone1 dev cycle start ?
Regards,
Daniel
--
|: http://berrange.com -o-http://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange/ :|
|: http://libvirt.org -o- http://virt-manager.org :|
|: http://autobuild.org -o- http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/ :|
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Re: [openstack-dev] [RFC] Kilo release cycle schedule proposal
On 09/23/2014 02:56 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Rather than waste a design summit session about it, I propose we review
> the proposed Kilo release cycle schedule on the mailing-list. See
> attached PDF for a picture of the proposal.
>
> The hard date the proposal is built around is the next ("L") Design
> Summit week: May 18-22. That pushes back far into May (the farthest
> ever). However the M design summit being very likely to come back in
> October, the release date was set to April 23 to smooth the difference.
>
> That makes 3 full weeks between release and design summit (like in
> Hong-Kong), allowing for an official "off-week" on the week of May 4-8.
Honestly, the off-week really isn't. If we're going to talk about
throwing a stall week into the dev cycle for spacing, I'd honestly
rather just push the release back, and be clear to folks that the summer
cycle is going to be shorter. The off-week I think just causes us to
lose momentum.
> The rest of the proposal is mostly a no-brainer. Like always, we allow a
> longer time for milestone 2, to take into account the end-of-year
> holidays. That gives:
>
> Kilo Design Summit: Nov 4-7
> Kilo-1 milestone: Dec 11
The one thing that felt weird about the cadence of the 1st milestone in
Havana last year was that it was super start / stop. Dec 11 means that
we end up with 2 weeks until christmas, so many people are starting to
wind down. My suggestion would be to push K1 to Dec 18, because I think
you won't get much K2 content landed that week anyway.
For US people at least this would change the Dec cadence from:
* Holiday Week - Nov 28 is thanksgiving
* Dev Week
* Milestone Week
* Dev Week
* sort of Holiday Week
* Holiday Week
To:
* Holiday Week
* Dev Week
* Dev Week
* Milestone Week
* sort of Holiday Week
* Holiday Week
Which I feel is going to get more done. If we take back the off week, we
could just shift everything back a week, which makes K2 less split by
christmas.
> Kilo-2 milestone: Jan 29
> Kilo-3 milestone, feature freeze: March 12
> 2015.1 ("Kilo") release: Apr 23
> L Design Summit: May 18-22
>
> All milestones avoid known US holiday weekends. Let me know if I missed
> something or if you see major issues with this proposal.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
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