Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Kairat Kushaev]

>
> os1:~> set | grep ^OS_
> OS_AUTH_URL=http://10.42.0.50:5000/v2.0
> OS_CACERT=
> OS_IDENTITY_API_VERSION=2.0
> OS_NO_CACHE=1
> OS_PASSWORD=pass
> OS_PROJECT_NAME=demo
> OS_REGION_NAME=RegionOne
> OS_USERNAME=demo
> OS_VOLUME_API_VERSION=2
>
> os1:~> cinder list
> ERROR: You must provide a tenant_name, tenant_id, project_id or
> project_name (with project_domain_name or project_domain_id) via
> --os-tenant-name (env[OS_TENANT_NAME]),  --os-tenant-id
> (env[OS_TENANT_ID]),  --os-project-id (env[OS_PROJECT_ID])
> --os-project-name (env[OS_PROJECT_NAME]),  --os-project-domain-id
> (env[OS_PROJECT_DOMAIN_ID])  --os-project-domain-name
> (env[OS_PROJECT_DOMAIN_NAME])
>
> os1:~> glance image-list
> You must provide a project_id or project_name (with project_domain_name
> or project_domain_id) via   --os-project-id (env[OS_PROJECT_ID])
> --os-project-name (env[OS_PROJECT_NAME]),  --os-project-domain-id
> (env[OS_PROJECT_DOMAIN_ID])  --os-project-domain-name
> (env[OS_PROJECT_DOMAIN_NAME])


It looks like project names are unique within domain.
So clients require project domain to be specified for v3.
Otherwise they raise an error.

Best regards,
Kairat Kushaev


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[gordon chung]

On 12/02/2016 7:01 AM, Sean Dague wrote:
> Ok... this is going to be one of those threads, but I wanted to try to
> get resolution here.
>
> OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs. project. As
> someone that wasn't here at the beginning, I'm not even sure which one
> we are supposed to be transitioning from -> to.
>
> At a minimum I'd like to make all of devstack use 1 term, which is the
> term we're trying to get to. That will help move the needle.
>
> However, again, I'm not sure which one that is supposed to be (comments
> in various places show movement in both directions). So people with
> deeper knowledge here, can you speak up as to which is the deprecated
> term and which is the term moving forward.
>
>   -Sean
>

not sure this was published anywhere but for those using devstack 
plugins, a patch merged recently[1], to take action on this. you'll need 
to switch SERVICE_TENANT_NAME to SERVICE_PROJECT_NAME. a backward compat 
patch[2] is available but we should all change.

glad to see we're moving forward on this.


[1] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/281779/
[2] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/283531/

cheers,
-- 
gord

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Ed Leafe]

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On 02/12/2016 07:40 PM, Adam Young wrote:

> Tenant never quite made sense to me. A tenant is the person that 
> occupies an apartment or building, but not the building itself.

For public clouds, where you have customers sharing resources on the
same hardware, it makes sense. But yeah, for Keystone (and most other
services in OpenStack), project is clearer, IMO.

- -- 

- -- Ed Leafe
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Gyorgy Szombathelyi]

Hi,

In keystone v2, it was called tenants, in v3, it is projects. It is funny to 
see the components switched to keystonemiddleware to configure 
[keystone_authtoken] with v3 settings, but other places still use the v2 
terminology (and even the v2 client).

Br,
György

> -Original Message-
> From: Sean Dague [mailto:s...@dague.net]
> Sent: 2016 február 12, péntek 13:01
> To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> 
> Subject: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project
> 
> Ok... this is going to be one of those threads, but I wanted to try to get
> resolution here.
> 
> OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs. project. As someone
> that wasn't here at the beginning, I'm not even sure which one we are
> supposed to be transitioning from -> to.
> 
> At a minimum I'd like to make all of devstack use 1 term, which is the term
> we're trying to get to. That will help move the needle.
> 
> However, again, I'm not sure which one that is supposed to be (comments in
> various places show movement in both directions). So people with deeper
> knowledge here, can you speak up as to which is the deprecated term and
> which is the term moving forward.
> 
>   -Sean
> 
> --
> Sean Dague
> http://dague.net
> 
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Ihar Hrachyshka]

Sean Dague  wrote:


Ok... this is going to be one of those threads, but I wanted to try to
get resolution here.

OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs. project. As
someone that wasn't here at the beginning, I'm not even sure which one
we are supposed to be transitioning from -> to.

At a minimum I'd like to make all of devstack use 1 term, which is the
term we're trying to get to. That will help move the needle.

However, again, I'm not sure which one that is supposed to be (comments
in various places show movement in both directions). So people with
deeper knowledge here, can you speak up as to which is the deprecated
term and which is the term moving forward.


Tenant is deprecated, and project is the new term to use.

Why am I confident? Neutron is currently looking into doing the naming  
transition.


Ihar

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Victor Stinner]

Le 12/02/2016 13:01, Sean Dague a écrit :

OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs. project.


Yeah, it's time to find a 3rd term to avoid confusion! ;-)

Victor

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Jay Pipes]

On 02/12/2016 07:01 AM, Sean Dague wrote:

Ok... this is going to be one of those threads, but I wanted to try to
get resolution here.

OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs. project. As
someone that wasn't here at the beginning, I'm not even sure which one
we are supposed to be transitioning from -> to.

At a minimum I'd like to make all of devstack use 1 term, which is the
term we're trying to get to. That will help move the needle.

However, again, I'm not sure which one that is supposed to be (comments
in various places show movement in both directions). So people with
deeper knowledge here, can you speak up as to which is the deprecated
term and which is the term moving forward.


"Project" is the term that should be used.

Best,
-jay

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Sean Dague]

On 02/12/2016 08:30 AM, Dean Troyer wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Sean Dague  > wrote:
> 
> OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs. project. As
> someone that wasn't here at the beginning, I'm not even sure which one
> we are supposed to be transitioning from -> to.
> 
> At a minimum I'd like to make all of devstack use 1 term, which is the
> term we're trying to get to. That will help move the needle.
> 
> However, again, I'm not sure which one that is supposed to be (comments
> in various places show movement in both directions). So people with
> deeper knowledge here, can you speak up as to which is the deprecated
> term and which is the term moving forward.
> 
> 
> IIRC Nova started with project, until the marriage with Rax, when many
> things changed, although the project -> tenant change may have never
> been completed.  Keystone v3 started the movement back to project. 
> OpenStackClient made the commitment from the beginning to present
> exactly one term to the user in all cases, and we chose project.
> 
> I've thought about making that change in DevStack many times, and would
> love to see it happen.  Somehow it never gets to the top of the queue. 
> And now in a plugin world, it'll be a bit harder to maintain compatibility.

Hmmm... one issue with that:

keystone only supports tenant_id in their service catalog for
replacement, not project_id - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/279523/.

Keystone folks, any idea if that's going to be adjusted?

-Sean

-- 
Sean Dague
http://dague.net

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Dean Troyer]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Sean Dague  wrote:

> OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs. project. As
> someone that wasn't here at the beginning, I'm not even sure which one
> we are supposed to be transitioning from -> to.
>
> At a minimum I'd like to make all of devstack use 1 term, which is the
> term we're trying to get to. That will help move the needle.
>
> However, again, I'm not sure which one that is supposed to be (comments
> in various places show movement in both directions). So people with
> deeper knowledge here, can you speak up as to which is the deprecated
> term and which is the term moving forward.
>

IIRC Nova started with project, until the marriage with Rax, when many
things changed, although the project -> tenant change may have never been
completed.  Keystone v3 started the movement back to project.
OpenStackClient made the commitment from the beginning to present exactly
one term to the user in all cases, and we chose project.

I've thought about making that change in DevStack many times, and would
love to see it happen.  Somehow it never gets to the top of the queue.  And
now in a plugin world, it'll be a bit harder to maintain compatibility.

dt

-- 

Dean Troyer
dtro...@gmail.com
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Brant Knudson]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Sean Dague  wrote:

> On 02/12/2016 08:30 AM, Dean Troyer wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Sean Dague  > > wrote:
> >
> > OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs. project.
> As
> > someone that wasn't here at the beginning, I'm not even sure which
> one
> > we are supposed to be transitioning from -> to.
> >
> > At a minimum I'd like to make all of devstack use 1 term, which is
> the
> > term we're trying to get to. That will help move the needle.
> >
> > However, again, I'm not sure which one that is supposed to be
> (comments
> > in various places show movement in both directions). So people with
> > deeper knowledge here, can you speak up as to which is the deprecated
> > term and which is the term moving forward.
> >
> >
> > IIRC Nova started with project, until the marriage with Rax, when many
> > things changed, although the project -> tenant change may have never
> > been completed.  Keystone v3 started the movement back to project.
> > OpenStackClient made the commitment from the beginning to present
> > exactly one term to the user in all cases, and we chose project.
> >
> > I've thought about making that change in DevStack many times, and would
> > love to see it happen.  Somehow it never gets to the top of the queue.
> > And now in a plugin world, it'll be a bit harder to maintain
> compatibility.
>
> Hmmm... one issue with that:
>
> keystone only supports tenant_id in their service catalog for
> replacement, not project_id - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/279523/.
>
> Keystone folks, any idea if that's going to be adjusted?
>
> -Sean
>
>
Proposed the change to keystone here:
https://review.openstack.org/#/c/279576/

As an excuse for not supporting this earlier, the replacement of
$(tenant_id)s, $(user_id)s, etc., in the service catalog is considered a
legacy feature so this has been neglected.

- Brant

--
> Sean Dague
> http://dague.net
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Ed Leafe]

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Hash: SHA512

On 02/12/2016 07:30 AM, Dean Troyer wrote:

> IIRC Nova started with project, until the marriage with Rax, when
> many things changed, although the project -> tenant change may have
> never been completed.  Keystone v3 started the movement back to
> project. OpenStackClient made the commitment from the beginning to
> present exactly one term to the user in all cases, and we chose
> project.

The team from NASA had used 'project', as it made sense to them for
their uses. When they got together with the Rackspace team, who were
using 'tenant' in their existing code, there was much discussion over
which made the most sense. And since RAX pretty much footed the entire
bill for those early days, guess which prevailed. :)

- -- 

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Monty Taylor]

On 02/12/2016 07:36 AM, Jay Pipes wrote:

On 02/12/2016 07:01 AM, Sean Dague wrote:

Ok... this is going to be one of those threads, but I wanted to try to
get resolution here.

OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs. project. As
someone that wasn't here at the beginning, I'm not even sure which one
we are supposed to be transitioning from -> to.

At a minimum I'd like to make all of devstack use 1 term, which is the
term we're trying to get to. That will help move the needle.

However, again, I'm not sure which one that is supposed to be (comments
in various places show movement in both directions). So people with
deeper knowledge here, can you speak up as to which is the deprecated
term and which is the term moving forward.


"Project" is the term that should be used.


Yes.

FWIW - The ansible modules in ansible 2.0 (as well as the shade library) 
use the term "project" regardless of whether the cloud in question is 
running keystone v2 or v3. It's the least I could do to try to nudge 
consumption in the right direction.



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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Ronald Bradford]

I am taking on the task in the Oslo Logging/Context projects to ensure
project replaces a deprecated use of tenant.

This includes the end user/operator view of logging configuration options
[1] replacing tenant with project, and RequestContext used across most
projects that has an inconsistent mixture of terms.

[1] http://docs.openstack.org/developer/oslo.log/opts.html



Ronald Bradford

Web Site: http://ronaldbradford.com
LinkedIn:  http://www.linkedin.com/in/ronaldbradford
Twitter:@RonaldBradford 
Skype: RonaldBradford
GTalk: Ronald.Bradford
IRC: rbradfor


On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Monty Taylor  wrote:

> On 02/12/2016 07:36 AM, Jay Pipes wrote:
>
>> On 02/12/2016 07:01 AM, Sean Dague wrote:
>>
>>> Ok... this is going to be one of those threads, but I wanted to try to
>>> get resolution here.
>>>
>>> OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs. project. As
>>> someone that wasn't here at the beginning, I'm not even sure which one
>>> we are supposed to be transitioning from -> to.
>>>
>>> At a minimum I'd like to make all of devstack use 1 term, which is the
>>> term we're trying to get to. That will help move the needle.
>>>
>>> However, again, I'm not sure which one that is supposed to be (comments
>>> in various places show movement in both directions). So people with
>>> deeper knowledge here, can you speak up as to which is the deprecated
>>> term and which is the term moving forward.
>>>
>>
>> "Project" is the term that should be used.
>>
>
> Yes.
>
> FWIW - The ansible modules in ansible 2.0 (as well as the shade library)
> use the term "project" regardless of whether the cloud in question is
> running keystone v2 or v3. It's the least I could do to try to nudge
> consumption in the right direction.
>
>
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[John Griffith]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 5:01 AM, Sean Dague  wrote:

> Ok... this is going to be one of those threads, but I wanted to try to
> get resolution here.
>
> OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs. project. As
> someone that wasn't here at the beginning, I'm not even sure which one
> we are supposed to be transitioning from -> to.
>
> At a minimum I'd like to make all of devstack use 1 term, which is the
> term we're trying to get to. That will help move the needle.
>
> However, again, I'm not sure which one that is supposed to be (comments
> in various places show movement in both directions). So people with
> deeper knowledge here, can you speak up as to which is the deprecated
> term and which is the term moving forward.
>
> -Sean
>
> --
> Sean Dague
> http://dague.net
>
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​I honestly don't have any real feeling about one over the other; BUT I
applaud the fact that somebody was brave enough to raise the question again.

Sounds like Project is where we're supposed to be, so if we can get it in
Keystone we can all go work on updating it once and for all?​
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Adam Young]

On 02/12/2016 08:28 PM, Monty Taylor wrote:

On 02/12/2016 06:40 PM, John Griffith wrote:



On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 5:01 AM, Sean Dague > wrote:

Ok... this is going to be one of those threads, but I wanted to 
try to

get resolution here.

OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs. 
project. As
someone that wasn't here at the beginning, I'm not even sure 
which one

we are supposed to be transitioning from -> to.

At a minimum I'd like to make all of devstack use 1 term, which 
is the

term we're trying to get to. That will help move the needle.

However, again, I'm not sure which one that is supposed to be 
(comments

in various places show movement in both directions). So people with
deeper knowledge here, can you speak up as to which is the 
deprecated

term and which is the term moving forward.

 -Sean

--
Sean Dague
http://dague.net

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​I honestly don't have any real feeling about one over the other; BUT I
applaud the fact that somebody was brave enough to raise the question 
again.


Sounds like Project is where we're supposed to be, so if we can get it
in Keystone we can all go work on updating it once and for all?​


Tis all good in keystone. If you're using keystoneauth and keystone v3 
everything will work magically. However, there are still some steps 
locally for things like config files and whatnot.



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Thank you all.

The tenant vs project thing has been an annoyance for almost the entire 
time I've been on OpenStack.  If we can standartdize on project moving 
forward, it will make things better.



On a terminology thing:  when talking about Nova, Glance, etc instead of 
using projects, I use the term services.  It makes it easier to distinguish.


Tenant never quite made sense to me. A tenant is the person that 
occupies an apartment or building, but not the building itself.



Also, the term multi-tenancy implies a degree of isolation between users 
that we never quite established between Keystone projects.





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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Fox, Kevin M]

The problem I've run into though, is project is very well defined in a lot of 
users minds, and its not defined the same way openstack typically uses it. A 
lot of sites use project in a way that more closely maps to a keystone domain. 
Though that gets even muddier with keystone subprojects and domains all kind of 
merging together. Some other folks define projects closer to keystone groups. A 
single "project" may have permissions on multiple openstack projects.

Tenant as a term was much easier for me to teach users. Since they don't have a 
predefined notion of what it is. And get the notion that like a multitenant 
building, it gives them their own space in the greater building. IE, the "Foo" 
project has access to these 3 openstack "tenants"

Thanks,
Kevin

From: Adam Young [ayo...@redhat.com]
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 5:40 PM
To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

On 02/12/2016 08:28 PM, Monty Taylor wrote:
> On 02/12/2016 06:40 PM, John Griffith wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 5:01 AM, Sean Dague <s...@dague.net
>> <mailto:s...@dague.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Ok... this is going to be one of those threads, but I wanted to
>> try to
>> get resolution here.
>>
>> OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs.
>> project. As
>> someone that wasn't here at the beginning, I'm not even sure
>> which one
>> we are supposed to be transitioning from -> to.
>>
>> At a minimum I'd like to make all of devstack use 1 term, which
>> is the
>> term we're trying to get to. That will help move the needle.
>>
>> However, again, I'm not sure which one that is supposed to be
>> (comments
>> in various places show movement in both directions). So people with
>> deeper knowledge here, can you speak up as to which is the
>> deprecated
>> term and which is the term moving forward.
>>
>>  -Sean
>>
>> --
>> Sean Dague
>> http://dague.net
>>
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>> Unsubscribe:
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>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>>
>> ​I honestly don't have any real feeling about one over the other; BUT I
>> applaud the fact that somebody was brave enough to raise the question
>> again.
>>
>> Sounds like Project is where we're supposed to be, so if we can get it
>> in Keystone we can all go work on updating it once and for all?​
>
> Tis all good in keystone. If you're using keystoneauth and keystone v3
> everything will work magically. However, there are still some steps
> locally for things like config files and whatnot.
>
>
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Thank you all.

The tenant vs project thing has been an annoyance for almost the entire
time I've been on OpenStack.  If we can standartdize on project moving
forward, it will make things better.


On a terminology thing:  when talking about Nova, Glance, etc instead of
using projects, I use the term services.  It makes it easier to distinguish.

Tenant never quite made sense to me. A tenant is the person that
occupies an apartment or building, but not the building itself.


Also, the term multi-tenancy implies a degree of isolation between users
that we never quite established between Keystone projects.




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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Monty Taylor]

On 02/12/2016 06:40 PM, John Griffith wrote:



On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 5:01 AM, Sean Dague > wrote:

Ok... this is going to be one of those threads, but I wanted to try to
get resolution here.

OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs. project. As
someone that wasn't here at the beginning, I'm not even sure which one
we are supposed to be transitioning from -> to.

At a minimum I'd like to make all of devstack use 1 term, which is the
term we're trying to get to. That will help move the needle.

However, again, I'm not sure which one that is supposed to be (comments
in various places show movement in both directions). So people with
deeper knowledge here, can you speak up as to which is the deprecated
term and which is the term moving forward.

 -Sean

--
Sean Dague
http://dague.net

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​I honestly don't have any real feeling about one over the other; BUT I
applaud the fact that somebody was brave enough to raise the question again.

Sounds like Project is where we're supposed to be, so if we can get it
in Keystone we can all go work on updating it once and for all?​


Tis all good in keystone. If you're using keystoneauth and keystone v3 
everything will work magically. However, there are still some steps 
locally for things like config files and whatnot.



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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

[Adam Young]

On 02/12/2016 09:04 PM, Fox, Kevin M wrote:

The problem I've run into though, is project is very well defined in a lot of users 
minds, and its not defined the same way openstack typically uses it. A lot of sites use 
project in a way that more closely maps to a keystone domain. Though that gets even 
muddier with keystone subprojects and domains all kind of merging together. Some other 
folks define projects closer to keystone groups. A single "project" may have 
permissions on multiple openstack projects.

Tenant as a term was much easier for me to teach users. Since they don't have a predefined notion 
of what it is. And get the notion that like a multitenant building, it gives them their own space 
in the greater building. IE, the "Foo" project has access to these 3 openstack 
"tenants"


There are arguments for both, but we are not going to switch back to 
tenant.  That would only continue the confusion.  We've been working 
toward project for 4+ years now.




Thanks,
Kevin

From: Adam Young [ayo...@redhat.com]
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 5:40 PM
To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all] tenant vs. project

On 02/12/2016 08:28 PM, Monty Taylor wrote:

On 02/12/2016 06:40 PM, John Griffith wrote:


On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 5:01 AM, Sean Dague <s...@dague.net
<mailto:s...@dague.net>> wrote:

 Ok... this is going to be one of those threads, but I wanted to
try to
 get resolution here.

 OpenStack is wildly inconsistent in it's use of tenant vs.
project. As
 someone that wasn't here at the beginning, I'm not even sure
which one
 we are supposed to be transitioning from -> to.

 At a minimum I'd like to make all of devstack use 1 term, which
is the
 term we're trying to get to. That will help move the needle.

 However, again, I'm not sure which one that is supposed to be
(comments
 in various places show movement in both directions). So people with
 deeper knowledge here, can you speak up as to which is the
deprecated
 term and which is the term moving forward.

  -Sean

 --
 Sean Dague
 http://dague.net

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​I honestly don't have any real feeling about one over the other; BUT I
applaud the fact that somebody was brave enough to raise the question
again.

Sounds like Project is where we're supposed to be, so if we can get it
in Keystone we can all go work on updating it once and for all?​

Tis all good in keystone. If you're using keystoneauth and keystone v3
everything will work magically. However, there are still some steps
locally for things like config files and whatnot.


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Thank you all.

The tenant vs project thing has been an annoyance for almost the entire
time I've been on OpenStack.  If we can standartdize on project moving
forward, it will make things better.


On a terminology thing:  when talking about Nova, Glance, etc instead of
using projects, I use the term services.  It makes it easier to distinguish.

Tenant never quite made sense to me. A tenant is the person that
occupies an apartment or building, but not the building itself.


Also, the term multi-tenancy implies a degree of isolation between users
that we never quite established between Keystone projects.




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