Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-06 07:53 AM, Imre Kaloz wrote: > On Thu, 05 May 2016 18:24:09 +0200, Daniel Dickinson > wrote: > >> On 16-05-05 12:21 PM, Jonathan Bennett wrote: >> [snip] >>> > The changes that the Lede guys are suggesting would be welcome, >>> but >>> > splitting

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On Thu, 05 May 2016 17:44:43 +0200, Daniel Petre wrote: On 05/05/2016 06:38 PM, Jonathan Bennett wrote: There is plenty of blame to go around, I think. Seems like the Lede guys should have had the decency to at least inform the Openwrt leadership privately that

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On Thu, 05 May 2016 18:24:09 +0200, Daniel Dickinson wrote: On 16-05-05 12:21 PM, Jonathan Bennett wrote: [snip] > The changes that the Lede guys are suggesting would be welcome, but > splitting the project and community with an ugly fork is very

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

I'm an outsider, have nothing to do with OpenWrt developement but still work on few projects which depend on OpenWrt as awesome project that enables us to do our projects (wifi mesh networking) but also do professional jobs for clients using OpenWrt as embedded os for lots of different

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 6 May 2016 at 03:53, Luka Perkov wrote: >>On 2016-05-05 20:22, mbm wrote: >>> On 5/5/2016 7:40 AM, Felix Fietkau wrote: Many of the changes that we previously tried to introduce were often squashed by internal disagreements. Resulting discussions often turned

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

You may be right that OpenWRT is doomed, but we have seen time and time again that OpenSource software is not a zero-sum game. Yes, if OpenWRT does nothing, it will struggle, but that's unlikely to be the case. For that matter, even with no new manpower, OpenWRT could just copy everything

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

I like to take decisions based more on "Realpolitik" than on ideology/feelings. I have no side and no feelings for any of people involved. I just want to have a good router distribution. What is a OSS project? It is the sum of work of people. So, the future of a project lies on how much people

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

>On 2016-05-05 20:22, mbm wrote: >> On 5/5/2016 7:40 AM, Felix Fietkau wrote: >>> Many of the changes that we previously tried to introduce were often >>> squashed by internal disagreements. Resulting discussions often turned >>> toxic quickly and led to nothing being done to address the issues.

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

mbm schrieb am 05.05.2016 um 21:22: > On 5/5/2016 7:40 AM, Felix Fietkau wrote: >> Many of the changes that we previously tried to introduce were often >> squashed by internal disagreements. Resulting discussions often turned >> toxic quickly and led to nothing being done to address the issues.

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 2016-05-05 20:22, mbm wrote: > On 5/5/2016 7:40 AM, Felix Fietkau wrote: >> Many of the changes that we previously tried to introduce were often >> squashed by internal disagreements. Resulting discussions often turned >> toxic quickly and led to nothing being done to address the issues. >>

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-05 03:22 PM, mbm wrote: > On 5/5/2016 7:40 AM, Felix Fietkau wrote: >> Many of the changes that we previously tried to introduce were often >> squashed by internal disagreements. Resulting discussions often turned >> toxic quickly and led to nothing being done to address the issues. >>

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

Might I submit that my impression is that Kaloz (at least) holds infrastructure hostage to maintain control, and that the fundamental problem here is that OpenWrt is *not* democratic and ignores what people who were ones visibly working on openwrt want and overrides their wishes because he/they

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 5/5/2016 7:40 AM, Felix Fietkau wrote: Many of the changes that we previously tried to introduce were often squashed by internal disagreements. Resulting discussions often turned toxic quickly and led to nothing being done to address the issues. Setting up the LEDE project was our way of

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On Thu, 5 May 2016, Carlos Ferreira wrote: I don't see the end of OpenWRT as a bad thing. If LEDE is basically a fork but without the development bottlenecks that seem to be affecting OpenwRT, then the change can be easily done by the industry segment that uses OpenWRT for their products. In

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

Hi Daniel, I already merged lynxis series now that I see your comment. If you feel like it, it'd be nice if you point out the remaining places where the name needs to be replaced and submit (a) patch(es). Cheers Daniel On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 02:03:43PM -0400, Daniel Dickinson wrote: > If

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-05 01:49 PM, Roman Yeryomin wrote: > On 5 May 2016 at 20:09, Daniel Dickinson wrote: >> On 16-05-05 12:59 PM, Roman Yeryomin wrote: >>> On 5 May 2016 at 19:29, Daniel Dickinson >>> wrote: On 16-05-05 12:24 PM, Daniel

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 5 May 2016 at 20:09, Daniel Dickinson wrote: > On 16-05-05 12:59 PM, Roman Yeryomin wrote: >> On 5 May 2016 at 19:29, Daniel Dickinson >> wrote: >>> On 16-05-05 12:24 PM, Daniel Dickinson wrote: On 16-05-05 12:21 PM, Jonathan

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-05 12:59 PM, Roman Yeryomin wrote: > On 5 May 2016 at 19:29, Daniel Dickinson wrote: >> On 16-05-05 12:24 PM, Daniel Dickinson wrote: >>> On 16-05-05 12:21 PM, Jonathan Bennett wrote: >>> [snip] [snip] >> When I say broken I mean I think openwrt was dying

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 5 May 2016 at 19:29, Daniel Dickinson wrote: > On 16-05-05 12:24 PM, Daniel Dickinson wrote: >> On 16-05-05 12:21 PM, Jonathan Bennett wrote: >> [snip] >>> > The changes that the Lede guys are suggesting would be welcome, but >>> > splitting the project

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

I confess I am one of those people who has benefited much more than I have contributed to the OpenWRT development group. I run a small company in which I am the chief developer, administrator, customer support dude, marketer, and salesguy. I would LOVE to be able to contribute more to the

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-05 12:24 PM, Daniel Dickinson wrote: > On 16-05-05 12:21 PM, Jonathan Bennett wrote: > [snip] >> > The changes that the Lede guys are suggesting would be welcome, but >> > splitting the project and community with an ugly fork is very much not >> > welcome. >> >> Let's just

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-05 12:21 PM, Jonathan Bennett wrote: [snip] > > The changes that the Lede guys are suggesting would be welcome, but > > splitting the project and community with an ugly fork is very much not > > welcome. > > Let's just say that there are strong personalities who haven't

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 10:58 AM Daniel Dickinson < open...@daniel.thecshore.com> wrote: > On 16-05-05 11:38 AM, Jonathan Bennett wrote: > > There is plenty of blame to go around, I think. Seems like the Lede > > guys should have had the decency to at least inform the Openwrt > > leadership

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-05 11:38 AM, Jonathan Bennett wrote: > There is plenty of blame to go around, I think. Seems like the Lede > guys should have had the decency to at least inform the Openwrt > leadership privately that they were planning this venture. The surprise The problem is that LEDE is pretty much

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

There is plenty of blame to go around, I think. Seems like the Lede guys should have had the decency to at least inform the Openwrt leadership privately that they were planning this venture. The surprise announcement must have felt very much like a stab in the back. "Et tu, brute?" and all that.

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 05/05/2016 06:38 PM, Jonathan Bennett wrote: There is plenty of blame to go around, I think. Seems like the Lede guys should have had the decency to at least inform the Openwrt leadership privately that they were planning this venture. If i read correctly the feedback from the LEDE guys

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-05 11:11 AM, John Clark wrote: >>>the sudden deletion of our widely published openwrt.org email > addresses somewhat undermines this > > Just so I am not jumping to wrong conclusions, their *.openwrt.org email @openwrt.org actually > addresses were deleted in retaliation for forking

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

>>the sudden deletion of our widely published openwrt.org email addresses somewhat undermines this Just so I am not jumping to wrong conclusions, their *.openwrt.org email addresses were deleted in retaliation for forking OpenWrt? Seriously? How did you not think that wasn't going to go well

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 5 May 2016 at 17:43, Daniel Dickinson wrote: > On 16-05-05 05:34 AM, Roman Yeryomin wrote: >> On 5 May 2016 at 06:48, Daniel Dickinson >> wrote: >>> On 16-05-04 04:01 PM, mbm wrote: Dear OpenWrt community, > [snip] >> >>

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-05 05:34 AM, Roman Yeryomin wrote: > On 5 May 2016 at 06:48, Daniel Dickinson wrote: >> On 16-05-04 04:01 PM, mbm wrote: >>> Dear OpenWrt community, >>> [snip] > > One simple question: > If LEDE team members are the ones who were suffering from some >

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

Hi Mike, thank you for reaching out to us and for your interest in addressing these issues. On 2016-05-04 21:01, mbm wrote: > Dear OpenWrt community, > > It is with a great amount of surprise that, like all of you, we read > about the announcement of the LEDE project yesterday, as there was no

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 9:06 AM, Bruno Randolf wrote: > > But as someone who is following, using, building upon and sometimes > contributing to OpenWRT since ~10 years I can only say that the only > developers who have been visible, reacting and committing stuff have > left. I

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 05/05/16 13:48, Zoltan HERPAI wrote: > I would not call "all active OpenWrt core developers" have left the > boat. Take a look at this [1] page - some of them are active, some of > them are not, but calling an end to the project is an overstatement at > least. Also, refer to the mail Mike sent

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

Hi, On Thu, 5 May 2016, Bruno Randolf wrote: On 05/05/16 02:02, Kathy Giori wrote: On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Fernando Frediani wrote: Thanks Daniel. That explains a lot. I imagine if some digging is done it would be possible to find the holders of the critical

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

I don't see the end of OpenWRT as a bad thing. If LEDE is basically a fork but without the development bottlenecks that seem to be affecting OpenwRT, then the change can be easily done by the industry segment that uses OpenWRT for their products. In fact, I see it as a good thing because it means

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 05/05/16 02:02, Kathy Giori wrote: > On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Fernando Frediani > wrote: >> Thanks Daniel. That explains a lot. >> I imagine if some digging is done it would be possible to find the holders >> of the critical resources and then re-organize it from

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

>Could you elaborate more and explain how exactly LEDE is going to fix the listed problems? And why it's not possible to fix them inside existing project? The hasty reasons given and the secret and abrupt severing of ties make me wonder if a "follow the money" approach will yield more plausible

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 5 May 2016 at 06:48, Daniel Dickinson wrote: > On 16-05-04 04:01 PM, mbm wrote: >> Dear OpenWrt community, >> >> spin off the OpenWrt project in the first place as a way to fix the >> project and its community. Also, the phrases such as a "reboot" are both >>

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-04 04:01 PM, mbm wrote: > Dear OpenWrt community, > > spin off the OpenWrt project in the first place as a way to fix the > project and its community. Also, the phrases such as a "reboot" are both > vague and misleading and the LEDE project failed to identify its true > nature. The LEDE

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Fernando Frediani wrote: > Thanks Daniel. That explains a lot. > I imagine if some digging is done it would be possible to find the holders > of the critical resources and then re-organize it from scratch within the > OpenWrt Project. > But as

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

Thanks Daniel. That explains a lot. I imagine if some digging is done it would be possible to find the holders of the critical resources and then re-organize it from scratch within the OpenWrt Project. But as the fork has already happened there is no much point in doing that. Regards, Fernando

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-04 07:59 PM, Fernando Frediani wrote: > Just curious to know by the names that signed the announcement of the > new project being know OpenWrt Developers why weren't there enough votes > inside OpenWrt to do this reboot and reorganize it completely under the > LEDE Project ideas ? I

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

Just curious to know by the names that signed the announcement of the new project being know OpenWrt Developers why weren't there enough votes inside OpenWrt to do this reboot and reorganize it completely under the LEDE Project ideas ? The LEDE ideas are great and the the long time and

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-04 07:21 PM, Daniel Dickinson wrote: > On 16-05-04 07:01 PM, Daniel Dickinson wrote: >> On 16-05-04 06:52 PM, Karl Palsson wrote: >>> >>> Daniel Dickinson wrote: > It also seems to me (as an outsider) that those who do contribute are > small open-source

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-04 07:32 PM, Kathy Giori wrote: > > Daniel I fully concur that industry "give back" is severely lacking. > It seems to me that the bigger the company, the less likely they are > to give back. One of the goals of the prpl Foundation was to help big > industry members to better "see" that

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 2:40 PM, Daniel Dickinson wrote: > On 16-05-04 12:25 PM, Kathy Giori wrote: >> Also wearing my hat within the prpl Foundation, which is funded by >> industry sponsorships that in turn provides financial support for >> OpenWrt, no one I have

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-04 07:01 PM, Daniel Dickinson wrote: > On 16-05-04 06:52 PM, Karl Palsson wrote: >> >> Daniel Dickinson wrote: >>> >>> Silly question, but can you outline some specific examples of >>> contributions that an outsider like me has somehow missed as >>> being as

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-04 06:52 PM, Karl Palsson wrote: > > Daniel Dickinson wrote: >> >> Silly question, but can you outline some specific examples of >> contributions that an outsider like me has somehow missed as >> being as concrete examples of companies contributing back to

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

Daniel Dickinson wrote: > > Silly question, but can you outline some specific examples of > contributions that an outsider like me has somehow missed as > being as concrete examples of companies contributing back to > openwrt, rather than just benefiting from it?

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On Wed, 2016-05-04 at 21:19 +0100, tapper wrote: > On 04/05/2016 21:01, mbm wrote: > > > > Dear OpenWrt community, > > > > It is with a great amount of surprise that, like all of you, we > > read > > about the announcement of the LEDE project yesterday, as there was > > no > > prior announcement

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

El 04/05/2016 a las 23:40, Daniel Dickinson escribió: On 16-05-04 12:25 PM, Kathy Giori wrote: Also wearing my hat within the prpl Foundation, which is funded by industry sponsorships that in turn provides financial support for OpenWrt, no one I have spoken to in prpl understands the reason for

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 16-05-04 12:25 PM, Kathy Giori wrote: > Also wearing my hat within the prpl Foundation, which is funded by > industry sponsorships that in turn provides financial support for > OpenWrt, no one I have spoken to in prpl understands the reason for > this spin-off either. It'll cause more confusion

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 4 May 2016 at 23:19, tapper wrote: > On 04/05/2016 21:01, mbm wrote: >> >> Dear OpenWrt community, >> >> It is with a great amount of surprise that, like all of you, we read >> about the announcement of the LEDE project yesterday, as there was no >> prior announcement

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 04/05/2016 21:01, mbm wrote: Dear OpenWrt community, It is with a great amount of surprise that, like all of you, we read about the announcement of the LEDE project yesterday, as there was no prior announcement nor clues this would happen. While we recognize the current OpenWrt project

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

Dear OpenWrt community, It is with a great amount of surprise that, like all of you, we read about the announcement of the LEDE project yesterday, as there was no prior announcement nor clues this would happen. While we recognize the current OpenWrt project suffers from a number of issues

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

Hei hei, On 04.05.2016 20:57, Roman Yeryomin wrote: > Well, like you said yourself, why they didn't start discussing the > problems (and possible solutions) in open space then? I can not speak for OpenWRT or LEDE developers, but let me give an example on one topic I watched the last weeks, which

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

It's not unusual for developers who disagree with project management issues to fork a project. I am also interested in who is left in OpenWRT and what their viewpoint is. Have the developers who are founding LEDE given up their commit privileges in OpenWRT? or are they going to be workting a

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 4 May 2016 at 21:35, Luiz Angelo Daros de Luca wrote: > It is really strange that the decision to create a new project was so opaque > when it was motivated to be a more "transparent project". > They could've started to be more transparent already with the decision to >

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

It is really strange that the decision to create a new project was so opaque when it was motivated to be a more "transparent project". They could've started to be more transparent already with the decision to create a new project. Maybe the answer for the need of an external reboot might be not

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 4 May 2016 at 19:25, Kathy Giori wrote: > On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Jo-Philipp Wich wrote: >> Hi, >> >> we'd like to introduce LEDE, a reboot of the OpenWrt community >> . >> >> The project is founded as a spin-off of the OpenWrt project and

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

Bruno Randolf wrote: > On 03/05/16 18:59, Jo-Philipp Wich wrote: >> we'd like to introduce LEDE, a reboot of the OpenWrt community >> ... >> Jo-Philipp Wich, >> John Crispin, >> Daniel Golle, >> Felix Fietkau, >> Hauke Mehrtens >> John

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Jo-Philipp Wich wrote: > Hi, > > we'd like to introduce LEDE, a reboot of the OpenWrt community > . > > The project is founded as a spin-off of the OpenWrt project and shares > many of the same goals. While I appreciate the enthusiasm, I do not

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

Jo-Philipp Wich wrote: > Hi, > > we'd like to introduce LEDE, a reboot of the OpenWrt community On a purely logistical note, is there any purpose in sending patches/pulls/bugs to _openwrt-devel_ any more? It sounds like there's effectively no-one left to read them. What

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

. To: Roman Yeryomin; Roman Yeryomin Cc: Bruno Randolf; OpenWrt Development List; Bruno Randolf; OpenWrt Development List Subject: Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project The only thing that seems to improve from my perspective is normal git pull requests instead of antiquated email patches

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

>From times to times, a complete Refresh is needed to purge old habits. Let's face it. The name OpenWRT reflects the initial idea, an Open Wireless Router. I don't know about the main uses, but I have a router using OpenWRT which doesn't even has a wireless interface. I also have seen cases where

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

The only thing that seems to improve from my perspective is normal git pull requests instead of antiquated email patches. The name change and that 90's style website will only confuse the users. > Am 04.05.2016 um 00:50 schrieb Roman Yeryomin : > >> On 3 May 2016 at

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 4 May 2016 at 10:31, Roman Yeryomin wrote: > On 4 May 2016 at 09:13, Reinoud Koornstra wrote: >> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 7:54 PM, Outback Dingo wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 12:50 AM, Roman Yeryomin

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 4 May 2016 at 09:13, Reinoud Koornstra wrote: > On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 7:54 PM, Outback Dingo wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 12:50 AM, Roman Yeryomin >> wrote: >>> >>> On 3 May 2016 at 23:19, Bruno Randolf

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 7:54 PM, Outback Dingo wrote: > > > On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 12:50 AM, Roman Yeryomin > wrote: >> >> On 3 May 2016 at 23:19, Bruno Randolf wrote: >> > On 03/05/16 18:59, Jo-Philipp Wich wrote: >> >> we'd like

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 12:50 AM, Roman Yeryomin wrote: > On 3 May 2016 at 23:19, Bruno Randolf wrote: > > On 03/05/16 18:59, Jo-Philipp Wich wrote: > >> we'd like to introduce LEDE, a reboot of the OpenWrt community > >> ... > >> Jo-Philipp Wich, > >>

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 3 May 2016 at 23:19, Bruno Randolf wrote: > On 03/05/16 18:59, Jo-Philipp Wich wrote: >> we'd like to introduce LEDE, a reboot of the OpenWrt community >> ... >> Jo-Philipp Wich, >> John Crispin, >> Daniel Golle, >> Felix Fietkau, >> Hauke Mehrtens >> John Crispin >> Matthias

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

Hello, 2016-05-03 22:19 GMT+02:00 Bruno Randolf : > On 03/05/16 18:59, Jo-Philipp Wich wrote: >> we'd like to introduce LEDE, a reboot of the OpenWrt community >> ... >> Jo-Philipp Wich, >> John Crispin, >> Daniel Golle, >> Felix Fietkau, >> Hauke Mehrtens >> John Crispin >>

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introducing the LEDE project

On 03/05/16 18:59, Jo-Philipp Wich wrote: > we'd like to introduce LEDE, a reboot of the OpenWrt community > ... > Jo-Philipp Wich, > John Crispin, > Daniel Golle, > Felix Fietkau, > Hauke Mehrtens > John Crispin > Matthias Schiffer, > Steven Barth While a fresh start and a more open process is