... with the caveat of somewhat complicating the recovery process.
On Sat, 2004-01-10 at 13:49, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote:
> Ryan - I don't see where you received a direct answer to this question. To
> use RMAN to back up to tape you must license what Oracle terms a MML (media
> management library). H
Yeah, I configured RMAN on a system. Then the users didn't want me to turn
off cold backups. My response was that a DBA wouldn't say there was such a
thing as too many backups, so we do both.
Specifically with noarchivelog/archivelog, if you try to recover using a
backup from before you turned o
On 2004.01.10 16:49, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote:
> Gene - As a part of putting the database back in archivelog mode, I hope you
> take another backup.
Actually, taking backup should be a part of every major intervention on the database.
Changing the database mode from noarchivelog to archivelog most
> Would it be incorrect to assume that you never do inserts
> into newly loaded partitions, or updates that could increase
> the length of rows?
>
> 1 pctfree could be problematic in that case.
Btw, if you're sure that rows won't grow, it use even pctfree 0 instead of
1. One thing you have to have
Ryan - I don't see where you received a direct answer to this question. To
use RMAN to back up to tape you must license what Oracle terms a MML (media
management library). However, you can use RMAN to back up to disk without
any additional purchase. My sys admin evaluated the cost of the MML piece
Gene - As a part of putting the database back in archivelog mode, I hope you
take another backup.
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
I put all databases in archive mo
its read only data in production. we monitor for chained rows on our staging
environment and do table reorgs as necessary. Our staging server only
ingests data over night, so we have all day for reorgs. Or we can just do
them on weekends. We may do a handful every few months. We just run a script
t
Would it be incorrect to assume that you never do inserts
into newly loaded partitions, or updates that could increase
the length of rows?
1 pctfree could be problematic in that case.
Jared
On Sat, 2004-01-10 at 05:04, Ryan wrote:
> I can understand the concern about ingesting large amount of da
I can understand the concern about ingesting large amount of data. We ingest
about 200 GB a night. To get around the archiving problem we make a
noarchivelog 'staging' instance, to run our loads. Then we use transportable
tablespaces to move the data to production. Its alot quicker and easier to
re
Let me explain, because I have a little bit of experience with it.
a) BCV's are replicated disks which are synchronized using TimeFinder.
and then separated from the source. The phrase "splitting BCV's" means
producing an exact disk copy of the original disks, similarly to what dd can
Mohammed,
Comments inline...
on 1/9/04 2:24 PM, mkb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Have a question on backups in a DW environment.
>
> Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected
> to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to
> convince the sys admin that I don't want archive
> l
Subject: Re: Backups in a DW
Environment
The license is for the
software that interfaces Veritas NetBackup to RMAN. RMAN has an API and NBU has an API. The
intersection of the 2 will set you
back about $1500 US IIRC.Jared
"Ryan" <[EM
pond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject: Re: Backups in a DW Environment
I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can
someone else confirm that this is necessary
Hi Ryan,
Not for RMAN. I meant a license for Veritas or
Legato.
See Mladen's reply re: BCV (basically EMC takes a
snapshot of the mount points onto corresponding mount
points i.e. a 1-to-1 mapping for each mount point onto
a BCV mount point)
Hope that clears up the confusion.
mohammed
--- Rya
BCV = Business Continuity Volume
On 2004.01.09 19:39, Ryan wrote:
> I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can
> someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more
> money to do use another product with veriftas and legato?
>
> What is a 'BCV'?
>
I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can
someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more
money to do use another product with veriftas and legato?
What is a 'BCV'?
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAI
Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have
a license or busget to use a third party backup tool
like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous
life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!)
So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs
backed up nightly and a full backup once a
I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production.
I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they
are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load
(import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into
archive mode. W
Yes but...
The developers use Cognos tools for all their
development. Nobody writes any PL/SQL, triggers etc.
So again, all that the developers might lose is data
that they loaded which can be easily recovered by
re-running the ETL process.
What I'm trying to say is that the environment from
th
Hi Dennis,
On average, we load data weekly. The load time is no
more 40 minutes to an hour. Like I said, we're small
at the moment. We're at about 70GB which includes
temp and undo and growing at the rate of about 2GB a
month.
Consequence of a failure has been discussed with the
developers and
My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog
mode. Period. End of story.
Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good.
Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of
requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might
why do you do a cold backup? why not just use RMAN?
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:34 PM
> Mohammed - When is this database updated? Once/week? Daily? Continuously?
If
> there is a failure, what is the c
Well, recovery might be just a wee bit faster then re-loading few gigs of data
using SQL. Also, developers on that DW might lose any work that they haven't done
the night before. This is a production database, which means that it absolutely
must be in archive log mode. One of the big reasons is tha
Mohammed - When is this database updated? Once/week? Daily? Continuously? If
there is a failure, what is the consequence of returning to the last backup?
How much critical data will be lost? How will recovery times be affected
with/without archive logging? How much does your sys admin know about
Or
{I can't remember the exact title of my previous email --
it is on my home PC and I am at work right now}
I had asked about options for backups when running
heterogenous environments [eg HP and Sun Database
Servers with DBs on FileSystems] in a single SAN.
We had a meeting with Sun and their loc
I didn't say that you would have a problem during OPEN RESETLOGS. A problem
might occur after the OPEN RESETLOGS if you did not grab an immediate "cold"
backup...
If you just open the database to end-users and transactions immediately
after the OPEN RESETLOGS, then you have a period when it woul
Tim, et.al,
We use rman on 8.0.6.3 databases. One of our duvelopers was trying to
delete records from a table and her query deleted everything from the
table. This caused the application to fail and a point-in_time recovery was
nessessary. I was given a time of 11:00AM. I had recovered the
I stand corrected. Guess I shouldn't rely on memory, it keeps failing on those DBA
sessions :) Just don't remember anyone doing hot backups during Oracle 6.
Thanks,
Gene
PS. (DBA=DrinkBeerAgain)
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/02 16:23 PM >>>
gentle correction: oracle6 had "hot" backup capabili
I stand corrected. Guess I shouldn't rely on memory, it keeps failing on those DBA
sessions :) Just don't remember anyone doing hot backups during Oracle 6.
Thanks,
Gene
PS. (DBA=DrinkBeerAgain)
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/02 16:23 PM >>>
gentle correction: oracle6 had "hot" backup capabili
02:08 PM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:Re: Backups
The one situation where a cold backup can be considered necessary is
following an OPEN RESETLOGS. If you have a "no data loss&
The one situation where a cold backup can be considered necessary is
following an OPEN RESETLOGS. If you have a "no data loss" requirement and
you are in ARCHIVELOG mode, then there is a window following an OPEN
RESETLOGS where, if the media crashes prior to completing a "hot" backup,
you could b
gentle correction: oracle6 had "hot" backup capability...
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:48 AM
Oracle 6 and prior releases required cold backups. Hot backups became
available in version 7. The trend
cc:
Subject:Re: Backups
lol, OK my reasons for occasional cold backups. As a prior sysadmin, I
prefer single user mode full filesystem backups (i.e. databases shut down)
prior to any upgrade whether its an application, database, or operating
system. There are benefits of
I would do a cold backup of the Oracle executables and application stuff but
I would do an rman level 0 for the database(s).
Ruth
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:18 PM
Not mentioning that there is usua
I believe it shows up in some upgrade documentation. I know our Oracle rep
recommended it.
And I'll admit that I did a cold backup before my upgrade rather than hot
just because it's a little easier to recover from if a problem arises (I
just padded the downtime for my upgrade to include the cold
I agree with you Ruth.
Ray, this may be something that your local DBA read in an older manual
someplace.
Have your DBA start reading about Rman. If he/she needs to see it in a
book, it might change his/her mind.
Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional
-Original Message-
Sent: Fr
Not mentioning that there is usually hot in Florida, so cold is good.
Saying that, I wonder how many people would go into software upgrade or a major change
without a full cold backup.
-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:28 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Oracle 6 and prior releases required cold backups. Hot backups became available in
version 7. The trend appears RMAN is the new way! Still waiting for Robert Freeman's
new book :).
Gene
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/02 10:03AM >>>
One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs
i
I never heard that, and I never do them, except my recovery catalog database
which I can shut down.
Ruth
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:03 AM
>
>
> One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracl
lol, OK my reasons for occasional cold backups. As a prior sysadmin, I prefer single
user mode full filesystem backups (i.e. databases shut down) prior to any upgrade
whether its an application, database, or operating system. There are benefits of cold
over hot backups (of course this assumes
One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs
indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and
could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a
reference?
On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote:
>
> OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)
Dennis,
I guess you just gotta have faith after a complete test of various types of
recovery that the software works. Once it passes all your tests, and you
are comfortable that it orks as advertised, it's just a matter of going for
it.
I am also convinced that Oracle support is able to help
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]cc:
ate.ny.us> Subject: RE: Backups
Sent by:
Cold backup is very good because I don't have to monitor database during the
cold backup, no objects will run out of space and I can enjoy a peaceful time
without any chance for my beeper to go off. You must admit that a cold backup
cannot guarantee you that. Unfortunately, my bosses somehow g
OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)
The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.
I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...
No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;)
There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.
Ruth, Tom, or anyone
So what is the final checklist before you take a deep breath and stop
cold backups. I have successfully run a disaster recovery test, but after so
many years of the comfort of a cold to go back to, it sorta takes you back.
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTEC
]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10/03/2002 02:38 PM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups
You must be using an old version. Been there done that. Works!
Ron
PS: Als
wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to
shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he
screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database.
cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at
L PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups
SQL Backtrack and Netbackup! No manual tracking. Restores couldn't be
simpler.
R. Smith
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Richard,
Distatefu
ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]cc:
ate.ny.us> Subject: RE: Backups
e respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups
SQL Backtrack and Netbackup! No manual tracking. Restores couldn't be
simpler.
R. Smith
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, Octob
I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM
I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
using Rman. Just not needed anymore.
Tom Me
'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups
It would be interesting to see how you would explain how
ei
I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
using Rman. Just not needed anymore.
Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
I still prefer cold backups w
om this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like
Title: RE: Backups
Lots
of folks here on the list can explain it, but really you would get more
from the Oracle Backup and Recovery Manual. In short, you place your
tablespaces in 'backup mode', one TS at a time is the prefered method. You
backup the datafiles associate
But of course, rman... backup archivelogs delete. Ruth
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 2:28 PM
Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
Ron
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 0
I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
Ron
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
rman
Title: RE: RE: Backups
Yes I personally run Veritas Netbackup for both cold and RMAN. A fiber
SAN has its added benefits as well =). I have never really explored the
implications of these other utilities. My head filled with many
distasteful visuals. Yes, I agree with you and I realize
Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
Ron
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
rman
to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
Ruth
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipie
Title: RE: Backups
It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either
cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept
of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things
consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in
time operations
I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman
to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
Ruth
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM
This doesn't sound right. Put t
This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?
John P Weatherman
Database Adm
I disagree. ALTER TABLESPACE tblsp_name BEGIN BACKUP, and you can copy the
datafiles of that tablespace using OS commands and use them for restore
Regards
Naveen
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 7:48 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
If you want to be able
If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be
able to recover.
Just a thot,
Ruth
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October
Robyn,
We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
is ju
Thank you for the response - I especially liked (& agreed with) the
rant. You expressed many of the same concerns that I have, but this is
a small operation and there's a lot to clean up. The application was
installed in the system schema, the users all had 'SYSTEM' for their
temporary table
I've relied on "dd", mainly when working with "raw" devices. "dd" is
probably one of the oldest commands in the UNIX lexicon. It's just another
way to get the job done...
RMAN is a *much* better solution. After all, how are these exports, backup
scripts, and what-not going to check the databa
Yes, you can use dd to read a tape.
from man dd:
Example 3: Reading a Tape Into an ASCII File
This example reads an EBCDIC tape blocked ten 80-byte EBCDIC
card images per block into the ASCII file x:
example% dd if=/dev/tape of=x ibs=800 cbs=80 conv=ascii,lcase
Are you g
Charlie,
I use Rman for all my backups. I like to have my database's up and
available to the users all the time.
Rman makes backup and recovery a simple process. For my production db's, I
will perform nightly Rman backups of the database and archivelog files, and
weekly Rman Validates for both
Charlie - Currently on most of our systems we do a weekly cold backup and
rely on archive logs for the rest of the week. We augment this with full
exports a couple of days/week. This is not ideal. Previously we did nightly
cold backups, but our systems grew to the point that wasn't practical. We
t
Charlie,
We do a cold backup of the production database active tablespaces (36
GIG) each night and a cold backup each Sunday night of the full
database(active and read-only tablespaces 70 GIG). The reason we backup
the read-only each week is it is easier to restore from one tape and I
do not con
Ryn,
I know nothing about the VxFS/UFS snapshot utlities,
but from a backup standpoint, other than using RMAN,
the only way a valid backup can be taken with the
database up and running is to put the tablespaces in
backup mode before the datafiles, or the filesystems
on which they reside, are copi
Steve,
>From the 817 documentation on RMAN:
"
Storage of the RMAN Repository Exclusively in the Control File
Because most information in the recovery catalog is also available in the
target database's control file, RMAN supports an operational mode in which
it uses the target database control fil
With Oracle 8.0 there was RMAN functionality that you could only get by
having a repository in a database. But with Oracle 8.1 it seems that you get
all the functionality you need with controlfiles. What functionality do you
lose by using RMAN with controlfiles?
Steve Orr
-Original Message
You can just use the controlfile so you don't have to setup a database
repository. Here's a clip from page 2-8 of the User's Guide:
"When you use a control file as the RMAN repository, RMAN still functions
very effectively. If you choose not to use a recovery catalog, follow the
guidelines in "Ma
s, Michael"
extel.com>cc:
Sent by: Subject: RE: Backups on raw devices
Michael,
We have about 160 DBs connecting to a central RMAN Repository. All Dev/Test DBs
connect to one RMAN repository on a separate UNIX box and all the production DBs
connect to another Production Repository.
Production RMAN repository is clustered using MC/Service guard for high
availabilit
You can put the repository anywhere you like. Even on the production box.
But that will mean you will need to recover the RCAT, then the production
database. If you have the resourcs, put the RCAT on another box to backup
production.
"Walking on water and developing software from a specificatio
I've logged a TAR on this one with Oracle. They have verified what I
suspected all along. The SAs here don't understand how Oracle performs a
hot backup. There is no difference between raw and cooked file systems as
far as Oracle is concerned when performing a hot backup. Also, the skipping
of
On Jun 15, 2001 at 04:05:49PM, Christopher Spence wrote:
> >In Oracle, you will get an "inconsistent"
> >image of the data file, but that is true
> >with any "manual" hot backup - cpio, tar,
> >cp, etc. It is not a problem - iff the
> >tablespace(s) are in backup mode.
> >(Wasn't there some
Michael,
We use RMAN on RAW with EDM (EMC) backups, without any problem. When using
RMAN, it will take care of all blocks that are being changed while the backup is
going on. Also as EDM interfaces with the Tape library, RMAN will write directly
to the Tape . Have this set up on about 15 database
we used raw devices for years... And never had a problem with hot backups
and restores...
I question the need to skip the fist block of the raw device.. We never did
that... Even in a parallel server mode as well
Greg
-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 7:10 PM
To: Multiple
>In Oracle, you will get an "inconsistent"
>image of the data file, but that is true
>with any "manual" hot backup - cpio, tar,
>cp, etc. It is not a problem - iff the
>tablespace(s) are in backup mode.
>(Wasn't there something about this on the OCP exam?)
This is exactly the reason why O
I have extensive, but aging, experience with hot backups of raw devices on
active systems - on Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, and a handful of other Unix
variants - and some significant experience with OPS on Sun Cluster.
"dd" works, but certainly isn't "the easiest way" - or the fastest! For one
thing it
I agree as long you put the TS in backup mode.
Also I'm not sure about skipping the header block!
Regards,
Waleed
-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 6:42 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
How would this be any different than reading a file system
when write act
How would this be any different than reading a file system
when write activity is taking place? It doesn't matter
if it's the OS or Oracle managing the disk, block can and
will be split during a hot backup.
I think your sysadmins need to reconsider.
And if I'm all wet on this, someone will be
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