To execute the cgi scripts thru web/HTML forms we had to put them in the
common cgi-bin directory. But is there a way to have these scripts in a
user's home directory and still call them thru web/HTML forms?
TIA
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Alroy
Hello All,
I am curious to know what are the executables that are
used when we say startup/shutdown of oracle database
on Sun box.
I think it is $ORACLE_HOME/bin/oracle
are there any other executables/kernel files
(important) in bin or in anyother areas.
Can somebody throw somelight ??/
With Apache it is fairly easy but why you would do it is beyond me as they
will then run anything in those directories and that is how you mess with
a web server by allowing users to freely run cgi scripts. This is why most
free websites don't give you access to CGI stuff or other server side
User's home directory (better special subdirectory - only for those
scripts) should be registered in the config file of webserver as a
directory where cgi scripts are running.
For example if You look in the Apache config file You will find such info
along with my examples
# ScriptAlias:
Hi
I think it will definately test the state of the backup files. If you can
restore to a different machine I guess you can restore to original
location.
To be honest I have 3 tiny test databases (TEST1/2/3) that I've used to try
all sorts of different backup and restore options and ended up
Hello David
Define index on all fields in the where clause.
Full table scan or reading a lot of records by index
for each sql statement can cause this.
Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 6:24
I sent this on June 21st. Is this a record ;-)
-Original Message-
From: Lord, David - CSG [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 13 August 2002 22:24
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Urgent : UTL file problem
Rings a bell. Is the directory/file writable by the
I want to stress again that I am not I/O expert.
As to your question:
Assume a table with 54 block divided in two extents of 27 blocks.
(I deliberately took a worst case)
With direct read you get 54 physical I/O to the disks.
With My algorithm you get 10 physical I/O to the disk
with nine
Hello
all
Could any one
of you guide me on how to select last 10 records from a table. and also finding
out first 10 records..
Thanks and regards,Santosh
Hi,
Following on from this has anyone else had negative experiences with LMT???
Rgds
-Original Message-
Sent: 13 August 2002 16:24
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Hello,
Some may not agree with this sentiment, but unless there is an overriding
reason for your needing to
Hi Vijaya
Try adding a when others clause to your code and print out sqlerrm and
get a better idea of what the actual error is. As follows
when others then
dbms_output.put_line(sqlcode||' '||sqlerrm);
raise_application_error(-20001,'un-handled exception from our
code');
hth
Hi
Santosh,
i
assume that u will b orderingthe query based on some criteria
so say
u have tableA with column x
for
finding the 1st 10records we will use the following
query:
select
x from A
where
rownum 11order by 1
/
for
finding thelast 10records we will use the
AFAIK
Oracle keeps no timestamp of when a record was inserted.It also reuses the
space freed up by deletes which means rownum can not be used either
So I don't think that it's possible to do such thing and have any
guaranteeswithout extra sql .
The only way to go is to add a kolom and fill that
Title: Oracle 8.0.5 Stand by database possible?
Hi list,
Can I create in Oracle 8.0.5 (Windows) a Stand by database or is this option only available in Oracle 8i?
TIA
Volker Schoen
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.inplan.de
Hi All,
This is 8.1.6.3 (32-bit) on Solaris 8. We have been trying to run a
transaction on the database
and it is throwing up ORA-4030. The process is indeed a big process and we r
getting this
error only while running a particular transaction. On running 'maxmem', we
get the following :
Hi friends
My procedure to send email from oracle server is working fine with oracle 8.1.7.0.0 but not
working in Oracle 8.1.7.4.1 .
The error which I get is
given below .
ERROR at line 1:
ORA-20001: 421 Service not available
ORA-06512: at SYS.UTL_SMTP, line 83
ORA-06512:
Check the doc: SQL reference, basic elements of
Oracle SQL
pseudocolumns.
The explanation on rownum gives you examples for your
problem.
Yechiel AdarMehish
- Original Message -
From:
Santosh
Varma
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: Wednesday, August 14,
Yes its's possible
But in 8i you get more features (open in read only mode I believe is one of
them)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Santosh,
There is no "last" and "first" records in relational databases
in terms of location. All records are equal and may be stored physically
anywhere. I guess that may be possible (parsing ROWID and usinginformation
about extent location) to sort records by extent, block and number of
Hello to everyone!
In order to duplicate archived logs to
other machine, I have to add new log_archive_dest parameter, which points to NFS
mount point. No, I can't avoid that...
I would like to hear bad stories, good
stories, rants, recomendations, tricks'n'tips... about nfs combined with
standby database has been available officially since 7.3.4 and has been
something you could artificially implement since at least 7.1
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi list,
Can I create in Oracle 8.0.5 (Windows) a Stand by database or is this
option
only available in Oracle 8i?
TIA
Jack, you willing to share those scripts?
thanks, joe
Jack van Zanen wrote:
Hi
I think it will definately test the state of the backup files. If you can
restore to a different machine I guess you can restore to original
location.
To be honest I have 3 tiny test databases (TEST1/2/3) that
Title: RE: Transferring data from one table to another
SQL*Plus COPY command can do it, truncating the
contents of the LONG after the length specified by by SET LONG
command...
- Original Message -
From:
Shaw
John-P55297
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Where do you call your procedure?
If you are running the code through IAS you (ias) will start more than one
session (if you are using SSO), so depending on where you are calling your
procedure it migth be called more than once. Could you please give some
more information.
/torben
-- Original
oradebug event 10046 trace name context off
or
alter session set events '10046 trace name context off'
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 4:06 PM
Can I stop and then restart a 10046 level 12 trace while the
i
thought santosh wanted records based on value that is 1st 10 minimalvalues
and last 10 max values...well if this is not the case than the solution that i
had send using rownum is obsolete and hence ignore it
rgds,
Ams.
www.medicomsoft.com.
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL
If you have a sequence column in table ála primary key:
select * from (select * from table order by sequence desc) where rownum 11;
Bu you don't have it - no way how to determine last 10 inserted records in
table.
Jan Pruner
- Original Message -
From: Santosh Varma
To:
Please explain how the shared pool is involved and how flushing it will
help?
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 10:08 AM
Also try to flush your sharepool at that time when users complaining about
slow pick
Hi List,
I want to put my databse in archive mode(Presently it is non archive
mode).I want to estimate
space that will be required for archive log taking we will be keeping
one week archive on disk. How can i find out amount of redo generated in
a week.
Regards
Pawan Dalmia
Extn -5259
--
PCM locks on the LMT datafile bitmap header blocks, just like those used for
enqueues. Difference is, there can be many such blocks and locks, instead
of
just one...
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 12:50 PM
Hi All,
We bought a license for a few components of Oracle 11.0.3. For different
products we bought license for different number of users depending upon the
requirement we anticipated at that time. But due to some problems we could
not implement all the modules. Now our support is expiring in 2
V$LOG_HISTORY
Pawan Dalmia
There is nothing wrong in what you are doing. It might be that there are lots
of requests for story_transaction_seq.NEXTVAL and by the time you reach the
next line it gets incremented by 1 again(unlikely, but possible).
I suggest you test it when you are sure that there will be no request for
It's tough trying to help someone when they don't provide the answers to the
questions from the people trying to help!
-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 11:48 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Is the instance running in archive log mode? If so, Was the
Send them to your private e-mail
Attachments don't go very well with the list :-)
Jack
Joe Testa
Tim/Rafiq,
I first saw problems with this on Apps 10.7.
Lots of large packages simultaneously in use. I don't think that it affected
speed so much as useability. There were constant complaints of forms not
working when usually there just wasn't a big enough free fragment in the
shared pool.
I have seen this error when the UTL_FILE_DIR parameter is set incorrectly.
It may be a typo, the directory does not exist, or the user hase no access to it.
I have also found that if the value is entered in the OEM (at least on NT), that
sometimes it is not properly read. So, instead, I also
hello listmates
has anyone ever checked out if there is a possibility to install single sign on only?
if so: please drop me a line.
kind regards mr
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Markus Reger
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services--
Hi. We have a table in our data warehouse which keeps
info about calls made. This table has a child table
with some detailed information about parts of the
call. There may be any number of parts within a call
(1 to many) and every part has a status.
MY developer wants to add a string field to
You can estimate the amount of space by following formula:
Number of log switches per week * size of Redo logs
Number of log switches you can see in sys.v_$log_history.
HTH
regards
Volker Schoen
E-Mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.inplan.de
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von:
Day 0
Initial = SELECT max(sequence#) from v$log;
Day 7
Final = SELECT max(sequence#) from v$log;
Final-Initial * Log_File_Size = amount of redo generated in a week
HTH
Naveen
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Hi
On 2002.08.14 07:48 Vladimir Barac wrote:
Hello to everyone!
In order to duplicate archived logs to other machine, I have to add new
log_archive_dest parameter, which points to NFS mount point. No, I can't avoid that...
I would like to hear bad stories, good stories, rants,
The editor of choice for me is Ultraedit (www.idmcomp.com) At $25 per copy/seat
it's damned good. Syntax highlighting for C, HTML, and several others included
plus you can customize it very easily. Mine's set up for Pro*C, SQL, PL/SQL,
and SQR (via PeopleSoft). Also allows one to edit Unix
Querying V$LOG_HISTORY should help, but it will only tell you how many log
switches occurred. You can get a good ballpark-estimate figure by counting
the rate of log switches per day and multiplying by the size of your
(largest) online redo log files. In SQL*Plus:
column mb new_value V_MB
Or Nedit from http://www.nedit.org. I've even customized syntax
highlighting for 8i init.ora files!
Of course to run under Windohs, you'll need CygWin and and X Server. I
wonder why? ;)
Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
multiply the size of one of your redo logs by the number of log
switches (from the alert log) over the time period. It's not completely
accurate but it will give you a pretty good starting point for sizing.
--- Pawan Dalmia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi List,
I want to put my databse in
Thanks for your responses,
Not completly sure why it was skipping on a nextval then an immediate currval select
yesterday, but I got with the PHP programmer and re-worked the calling program and
today it is working like expected.
Thanks again.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/14/02 07:53AM
There is
Naveen,
I can't say if it's a global policy or not. However in my last life,
we initially purchased ALL modules assuming about 2000 users. We ended
up with only a handful being implemented and closer to 600 users. Oracle
pulled the same you can't reduce licensing stunt with us. Of course
Two
years ago we ran into a problem with export files being stored to an NFS mount,
one of the export files was corrupt.
Oracle
at the time advised us to avoid NFS mounts, they did not support any NFS
implementations from operating system vendors, including HP, Digital, Sun.
They also did
Dick, you said the magic word! :D Only these were done on purpose...
http://www.samag.com/tpj/obfuscated/
Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL
-- John Weatherman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Naveen,
I can't say if it's a global policy or not. However in my last life,
we initially purchased ALL modules assuming about 2000 users. We ended
up with only a handful being implemented and closer to 600 users. Oracle
pulled the same you can't
I'm not sure, but would concurrency be an issue here?
With Warm Regards,
Manav.
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:28 AM
Where do you call your procedure?
If you are running the code through IAS you
What's about creating a index on columns
nxx_id, npa_id
?
Volker Schoen
E-Mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.inplan.de
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. August 2002 15:14
An: Multiple recipients of list
Gene,
You ask what's wrong with this? The main challenge I see is: how are you
going to maintain this field? If a status gets updated in the child table,
are you supposed to update the parent table? And to do that, you will need
to requery the child table to get all the status's of all
Jack,
I have another twist on this situation. Again I'm
loading the tables in nologging mode with all the
indices dropped. Both transactions are insert into
table nologging (select *). The only difference is
that one select is a select from a single table while
the other - is a select from two
Requirements:
1. Database must be reconfigured/rebuilt.
2. All datafiles must reside on RAW devices. No autogrowth potential.
3. Several UNIX parameters will require modification to accommodate the
increased traffic between the two instances.
4. TNSNAMES and LISTENER .ORA files will require
Sounds like a bit of denormalization. Which during development you may have
to do for performance reasons. Checkout www.dmreview.com for some articles
on this. Or Ralph Kimball's site.
I believe one of the design rules state that you would want to avoid
creating those STATUS_A_CNT, etc.
Thanks Jack
But this is not my requirement,I want to know can I get the history of all
the procedure execution time..
regards,
---
Atin Kumar Jain
OCP 8i DBA
IBM Global Services
SO Jamshedpur
0657- 424478
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
John,
Thanks for the input. It eventually helped me find me problem. In the
words of Pogo, We have met the enemy and they is us. The high disk reads
were not from the users app at all, but rather from the audit table, AUD$.
I moved it from the SYSTEM tablespace over a year ago and failed to
With individual columns you save on the CPU cycles/time involved to parse
the string and extract each character.
Additionally, if you ever need to update this string, it would be tedious.
IMO, its always better to have atomic data since one can then leverage the
features of the DBMS.
With Warm
Title: RE: what is wrong with this idea ...
Gene,
You would be denormalizing to hopefully improve performance. The only way to tell is to test and test some more. Personally I don't see how putting the info in the parent table with either method will improve things. I bet updates and
http://www.oracle-dba.com/rman
joe
Keep in mind, you end up having to pay the purchase price again. So
yes, the maint cost goes down, after paying the new inflated setup
cost. We looked at the let it expire approach carefully...
John P Weatherman
Database Administrator
Replacements Ltd.
-Original Message-
Sent:
As long as you are doing INSERT INTO ... using CTAS it can make use of
NOLOGGING according to Oracle. I do not know
why the single table does not use it. Perhaps posting relevant portion of
insert stmt may provide some help
Tom,
The child table is not going to be updated ad-hoc.
As I said this is a data warehouse and there is no
ad-hoc updates. Only one load during the day and
during
this load that field is going to be populated.
The thing I don't like about the procedure is that it
will be doing a query against
-- Gurelei [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi. We have a table in our data warehouse which keeps
info about calls made. This table has a child table
with some detailed information about parts of the
call. There may be any number of parts within a call
(1 to many) and every part has a status.
MY
I go for emacs (www.gnu.org). I've got it running in viper-mode to keep my
vi fingers working; its got syntax-highlighting for just about everything
(if you can find an up to date mode for it); the JDE IDE for java
development; ftp editing; two windows running on a twin-head machine so I
can
One should alos remember that on some products Oracle has a minimum number of
users, If you don't have that many, well too bad!!
Dick Goulet
Reply Separator
Author: Steven Lembark [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 8/14/2002 6:08 AM
-- John Weatherman
I've liked and used PFE or Programmer's File Editor for a long time now.
http://www.lancs.ac.uk/people/cpaap/pfe/
I have pulled in, read and edited empty export files up to many MB
in size, and have used it to read in entire directories of files to
clean up, inspect, and the like. I have done
that would help. my guess is what others have said - that he is somehow
issuing 10,000 individual update statements. each one requires the
statement to be parsed, compiled then executed. there is little that one
can do in the database to help that type of process. the real answer is to
Short answer: NO
Long answer: NO.
You have code for it yourself. Why is that important? If it is a business
requirement, you have to put code in there to handle that. Oracle won't do
it for you.
Raj
__
Rajendra Jamadagni MIS,
Markus - I'm not sure quite what you are asking, but since no one has
replied, I will make a stab and maybe you can clarify your objectives. SSO
means different things to different people. If you are a Microsoft shop,
with everybody's email on Outlook, then SSO means Microsoft Active
Directory. I
Gene - What is the motivation here? Are you trying to save space in a fact
table with many, many rows? I agree that in data warehousing we sometimes
violate the normal rules we adhere to in OLTP databases, and I think some of
your responses have been assuming OLTP rules. For example, someone
Unfortunately, this solution will not work. The ordering of the columns is
done AFTER the assignment of rownum. Rownum is the order of retrieval, not
the order of display.
1 select rownum, empno, ename
2* from emp
ROWNUM EMPNO ENAME
-- -- --
1
Gene,
you asked what was wrong and I think everyone gave you their opinion.
you know by now that what you are told today will change next month. once
you begin down this path, you will never stop. you know that as soon as you
set this up, and they have written a ton of reports, that a new
Joe and Jack - You guys rock! Thanks from all of us RMAN novices.
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 8:48 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Jack and list,
I've got them, am writing up the web page
Hi Santosh,
If I understand your requirement correctly, this could be the solution
for first 10 records :
select * from TABLE_NAME where rownum=10 order by rowid;
for last 10 records :
select * from contract where rownum=10 order by rowid desc;
MILIND SHITOLE
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
From:
Gene,
One of the basic rules of third normal form is to not
store multiple (non-atomic) values or logic inside a
column like this. The reason is that you end up
storing the same values more than once, wasting space,
and you have to substr the value to get your logic out
of it, which could
Jack,
From 9.0.1 TIMESTAMP (precision) datatype can store fractions of second
specified by precision.
Alexandre
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 12:28 PM
AFAIK
Oracle keeps no timestamp of when a
No it can't be done. the thing is that the support contract is expiring. We
have the product licenses, but we want support contract to be reduced for
lesser number of people.
Now they say, that this can't be done and the product license will be
terminated if we want this. The thing is that
It wasn't 20 seconds it was 15 seconds.
The same lessons apply. Without knowing what else
is going on in the database, it's not possible to say why
it's taking an hour to insert 10k rows.
Using bind variables will drastically reduce the resources
consumed by the insert job.
Using SQL*loader
Maintenance cost is much less to the purchase cost, but how can a company
force us to renew the support contract? I'm ready to live without the support
because I have not implemented a few modules. Does that mean that either we
have to pay the support price till the time we decide to start using
This email just tells us that such questions need to be included in FAQ ...
Bottom line is
* No matter how you use ROWNUM, it is USELESS.
* No matter how you use ROWID, it is USELESS.
* If you don't have a PK or any type of unique incrementing key or a
timestamp with a key it won't help you.
*
I think the original poster was testing our skills since he posted his
problem and disappeared.
Also he asked for some init.ora parameter to make it faster:)
Regards,
Waleed
-Original Message-
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Khedr, Waleed
Sent: 8/14/02 10:42 AM
It wasn't 20 seconds it was
I'll endorse 100% those comments on UltraEdit
peter
edinburgh
The editor of choice for me is Ultraedit (www.idmcomp.com)
At $25 per copy/seat
it's damned good. Syntax highlighting for C, HTML, and
several others included
plus you can customize it very easily. Mine's set up for
You can restart the trace.
If you ever need to do this on 8i+, ou can also 'alter system set
max_dump_file_size=unlimited;'.
Jared
On Tuesday 13 August 2002 15:06, Baker, Barbara wrote:
Can I stop and then restart a 10046 level 12 trace while the process is
continuing to run?
(After
I agree with Tom, from a practical point of view. Some 2 years ago this young
whippersnapper came on board to design a data warehouse for us. One of his
ideas was to concatenate a bunch of columns from the operational data into one
column in the warehouse, store it as a separate table with an
When you create a context index, you create a number of tables. These tables are
named
DR$INDEX_NAME$I, DR$INDEX_NAME$K, DR$INDEX_NAME$N, and DR$INDEX_NAME$R.
There are indexes on these tables. The I and the R tables contain BLOBS and thus
have lob indexes. The K and N tables are
-- Naveen Nahata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Maintenance cost is much less to the purchase cost, but how can a company
force us to renew the support contract? I'm ready to live without the
support because I have not implemented a few modules. Does that mean that
either we have to pay the support
-- John Weatherman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Keep in mind, you end up having to pay the purchase price again. So
yes, the maint cost goes down, after paying the new inflated setup
cost. We looked at the let it expire approach carefully...
Let me guess: it worked out nearly even because the jacked
-- Naveen Nahata [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Now they say, that this can't be done and the product license will be
terminated if we want this. The thing is that Oracle support is useless(I
get more help from this forum :) ), but we still want it, just in case.
Ever heard of FUD? That's what Oracle
Thanks Joe.
- Original Message -
From:
JOE
TESTA
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 9:58
AM
Subject: RMAN example scripts
http://www.oracle-dba.com/rman
joe
Close to a wash, but actually ended up slightly more expensive to
create the new contract. :)
John P Weatherman
Database Administrator
Replacements Ltd.
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 11:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
-- John Weatherman [EMAIL
ditto... thank you!
--- DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Joe and Jack - You guys rock! Thanks from all of us RMAN novices.
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 8:48 AM
To: Multiple recipients of
Hello Listers,
We have a requirement to Implement HP OpenView as a corporate standard to
monitor the Databases. I am not having any idea how to better implement this
.Can somebody out there who can help me by sending some documents or
procedure to do this .
Thanks in advance,
Madhu
--
Please
No, it will not work. You cannot use ROWID to sort records to get
'insert-order'. It is wrong.
And you have to use dynamic view if you want ORDER BY and use ROWNUM.
Jan Pruner
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 9:13 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Hi
Dennis,
Yes, at this moment I'm debating whether to go with
one combined string or several separate fields.
I'm not thrilled by any of the options, but the former
really doesn't look good to me. What I'm trying to
avoid is every transaction having to run a query
against a large (tens of millions
Joe,
Thanks for providing the location the view and get the scripts. Any
information about different users accomplished the same task in
different ways is a great learning tool.
Thanks to both Jack and Joe,
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/14/02 09:48AM
Jack and list,
I've got them, am
Pretty good scripts.
Just looking at them, they appear to be more of the 8i variety.
There are some improvements in 9i and 9iR2 that could be considered,
such as the restore of the control file without a recovery catalog, and
controlfile and SPFILE
autobackups. Also, I'd remove the manual
Steven,
Cancelling the contract and letting it expire may NOT be the answer.
You might have to pay the initial $$$ fee again and then the yearly
support fee. Granted the yearly support fee may be less but the initial
fee is like space panties (out of this world).
Ron
ROR mô¿ôm
[EMAIL
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