RE: Backups in a DW Environment
... with the caveat of somewhat complicating the recovery process. On Sat, 2004-01-10 at 13:49, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Ryan - I don't see where you received a direct answer to this question. To use RMAN to back up to tape you must license what Oracle terms a MML (media management library). However, you can use RMAN to back up to disk without any additional purchase. My sys admin evaluated the cost of the MML piece from Veritas for our size of server and said the additional disk area was cheaper, so we use RMAN to disk. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
I can understand the concern about ingesting large amount of data. We ingest about 200 GB a night. To get around the archiving problem we make a noarchivelog 'staging' instance, to run our loads. Then we use transportable tablespaces to move the data to production. Its alot quicker and easier to restore a backup copy transportable tablespace than it is to roll forward plus we dont have to generate massive amounts of redo. If you can do your loads in the middle of the night and very few production users are on then, you can put your staging instance right on your production server. We don't do this, but we have them all on the same netapp. If you do this, I recommend using 99 percent free and 1 percent used in order to 'compact' your tablespace. This keeps the tablespace as small as possible and decreases how long it takes to copy. This speeds up the load process(getting data to production), backups, and recovery. We were able to knock a 28 GB tablespace down to 12 GBs. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 10:04 PM Mohammed, Comments inline... on 1/9/04 2:24 PM, mkb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. On the contrary, not using archivelog mode is what makes less sense, thus justifying more careful consideration and justification. Archivelogging is the industry standard and makes complete sense in all but a few extreme cases. Have you considered what archive logging actually provides for you, and what is necessary to engineer the same effects on your own? Think it through... He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. The rebuild-then-reload method seems to make sense on paper, but it is the cause of extreme difficultly in actual practice. If you have not yet already implemented a very mature change-management procedure, to record all changes in the database, complete with all of the security to prevent it being bypassed, then you are in for a rough time. Robust change-management and ironclad security always makes sense, but the extra insurance of being able to recover every change using archivelogging makes sense also. Also, on the topic of BCV splits, one of the problems of using BCV splits (or file-system snapshots or similar snapshot schemes) is that, while it makes backups very easy, it does not make recovery any easier. This type of backup-centric thinking is very seductive. What is the purpose of the whole exercise? Taking backups? Or being recoverable? Oracle Recovery Manager (RMAN) is not named Backup Manager for a reason. RMAN is recovery-centric. It seems more complex on the backup end of things (it isn't), but it is undeniably easier on the recovery side of things. Try to work RMAN into your strategy at all times. It is worth the extra consideration. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. Any data warehouse that is shutdown, even for a few minutes, just to take a backup, has been engineered to fail. People keep data warehouses busy on a 24x7 basis just like any other system. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed Hope this helps... -Tim -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Would it be incorrect to assume that you never do inserts into newly loaded partitions, or updates that could increase the length of rows? 1 pctfree could be problematic in that case. Jared On Sat, 2004-01-10 at 05:04, Ryan wrote: I can understand the concern about ingesting large amount of data. We ingest about 200 GB a night. To get around the archiving problem we make a noarchivelog 'staging' instance, to run our loads. Then we use transportable tablespaces to move the data to production. Its alot quicker and easier to restore a backup copy transportable tablespace than it is to roll forward plus we dont have to generate massive amounts of redo. If you can do your loads in the middle of the night and very few production users are on then, you can put your staging instance right on your production server. We don't do this, but we have them all on the same netapp. If you do this, I recommend using 99 percent free and 1 percent used in order to 'compact' your tablespace. This keeps the tablespace as small as possible and decreases how long it takes to copy. This speeds up the load process(getting data to production), backups, and recovery. We were able to knock a 28 GB tablespace down to 12 GBs. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 10:04 PM Mohammed, Comments inline... on 1/9/04 2:24 PM, mkb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. On the contrary, not using archivelog mode is what makes less sense, thus justifying more careful consideration and justification. Archivelogging is the industry standard and makes complete sense in all but a few extreme cases. Have you considered what archive logging actually provides for you, and what is necessary to engineer the same effects on your own? Think it through... He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. The rebuild-then-reload method seems to make sense on paper, but it is the cause of extreme difficultly in actual practice. If you have not yet already implemented a very mature change-management procedure, to record all changes in the database, complete with all of the security to prevent it being bypassed, then you are in for a rough time. Robust change-management and ironclad security always makes sense, but the extra insurance of being able to recover every change using archivelogging makes sense also. Also, on the topic of BCV splits, one of the problems of using BCV splits (or file-system snapshots or similar snapshot schemes) is that, while it makes backups very easy, it does not make recovery any easier. This type of backup-centric thinking is very seductive. What is the purpose of the whole exercise? Taking backups? Or being recoverable? Oracle Recovery Manager (RMAN) is not named Backup Manager for a reason. RMAN is recovery-centric. It seems more complex on the backup end of things (it isn't), but it is undeniably easier on the recovery side of things. Try to work RMAN into your strategy at all times. It is worth the extra consideration. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. Any data warehouse that is shutdown, even for a few minutes, just to take a backup, has been engineered to fail. People keep data warehouses busy on a 24x7 basis just like any other system. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed Hope this helps... -Tim -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
its read only data in production. we monitor for chained rows on our staging environment and do table reorgs as necessary. Our staging server only ingests data over night, so we have all day for reorgs. Or we can just do them on weekends. We may do a handful every few months. We just run a script to check on it and get an email if chained rows is over 5%. No big deal. Archive log mode when you ingest tons of data is problematic. It just kills I/O. We do alot of full refreshes on tables every night. Its easier just to do a tablespace transport for backup and run dbverify on them. Faster to restore too. You keep two backup copies for each day. Then you just do a 'move' on one them to restore it. Very fast. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 1:59 PM Would it be incorrect to assume that you never do inserts into newly loaded partitions, or updates that could increase the length of rows? 1 pctfree could be problematic in that case. Jared On Sat, 2004-01-10 at 05:04, Ryan wrote: I can understand the concern about ingesting large amount of data. We ingest about 200 GB a night. To get around the archiving problem we make a noarchivelog 'staging' instance, to run our loads. Then we use transportable tablespaces to move the data to production. Its alot quicker and easier to restore a backup copy transportable tablespace than it is to roll forward plus we dont have to generate massive amounts of redo. If you can do your loads in the middle of the night and very few production users are on then, you can put your staging instance right on your production server. We don't do this, but we have them all on the same netapp. If you do this, I recommend using 99 percent free and 1 percent used in order to 'compact' your tablespace. This keeps the tablespace as small as possible and decreases how long it takes to copy. This speeds up the load process(getting data to production), backups, and recovery. We were able to knock a 28 GB tablespace down to 12 GBs. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 10:04 PM Mohammed, Comments inline... on 1/9/04 2:24 PM, mkb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. On the contrary, not using archivelog mode is what makes less sense, thus justifying more careful consideration and justification. Archivelogging is the industry standard and makes complete sense in all but a few extreme cases. Have you considered what archive logging actually provides for you, and what is necessary to engineer the same effects on your own? Think it through... He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. The rebuild-then-reload method seems to make sense on paper, but it is the cause of extreme difficultly in actual practice. If you have not yet already implemented a very mature change-management procedure, to record all changes in the database, complete with all of the security to prevent it being bypassed, then you are in for a rough time. Robust change-management and ironclad security always makes sense, but the extra insurance of being able to recover every change using archivelogging makes sense also. Also, on the topic of BCV splits, one of the problems of using BCV splits (or file-system snapshots or similar snapshot schemes) is that, while it makes backups very easy, it does not make recovery any easier. This type of backup-centric thinking is very seductive. What is the purpose of the whole exercise? Taking backups? Or being recoverable? Oracle Recovery Manager (RMAN) is not named Backup Manager for a reason. RMAN is recovery-centric. It seems more complex on the backup end of things (it isn't), but it is undeniably easier on the recovery side of things. Try to work RMAN into your strategy at all times. It is worth the extra consideration. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. Any data warehouse that is shutdown, even for a few minutes, just to take a backup, has been
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Gene - As a part of putting the database back in archivelog mode, I hope you take another backup. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net/ -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com/ San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net/ -- Author: Bobak, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com/ San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Ryan - I don't see where you received a direct answer to this question. To use RMAN to back up to tape you must license what Oracle terms a MML (media management library). However, you can use RMAN to back up to disk without any additional purchase. My sys admin evaluated the cost of the MML piece from Veritas for our size of server and said the additional disk area was cheaper, so we use RMAN to disk. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Would it be incorrect to assume that you never do inserts into newly loaded partitions, or updates that could increase the length of rows? 1 pctfree could be problematic in that case. Btw, if you're sure that rows won't grow, it use even pctfree 0 instead of 1. One thing you have to have in mind in this case, that there might not be enough room for allocating additional ITL entries in a block, so you should use INITRANS for setting minimum number of entries a block has. Tanel. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tanel Poder INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
On 2004.01.10 16:49, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Gene - As a part of putting the database back in archivelog mode, I hope you take another backup. Actually, taking backup should be a part of every major intervention on the database. Changing the database mode from noarchivelog to archivelog most certainly qualifies. You can never be too rich or have too many backups. My experience tells me that the backup you will need the most will always be the one you don't have. Murphy must have been a DBA. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Yeah, I configured RMAN on a system. Then the users didn't want me to turn off cold backups. My response was that a DBA wouldn't say there was such a thing as too many backups, so we do both. Specifically with noarchivelog/archivelog, if you try to recover using a backup from before you turned off archivelog, then you will have a gap in your log sequence and only be able to recover to the point you turned off archivelog. I know that you know that Mladen, but I thought maybe some lurker on the list might not. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 6:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On 2004.01.10 16:49, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Gene - As a part of putting the database back in archivelog mode, I hope you take another backup. Actually, taking backup should be a part of every major intervention on the database. Changing the database mode from noarchivelog to archivelog most certainly qualifies. You can never be too rich or have too many backups. My experience tells me that the backup you will need the most will always be the one you don't have. Murphy must have been a DBA. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Backups in a DW Environment
Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Mohammed - When is this database updated? Once/week? Daily? Continuously? If there is a failure, what is the consequence of returning to the last backup? How much critical data will be lost? How will recovery times be affected with/without archive logging? How much does your sys admin know about Oracle? We have a data warehouse that gets updated weekly. The day after the load we perform a cold backup. We don't use archive logging. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 3:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Well, recovery might be just a wee bit faster then re-loading few gigs of data using SQL. Also, developers on that DW might lose any work that they haven't done the night before. This is a production database, which means that it absolutely must be in archive log mode. One of the big reasons is that you'll have to answer the question why isn't the production DW in the archive log mode whenever you encounter an oracle consultant. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
why do you do a cold backup? why not just use RMAN? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:34 PM Mohammed - When is this database updated? Once/week? Daily? Continuously? If there is a failure, what is the consequence of returning to the last backup? How much critical data will be lost? How will recovery times be affected with/without archive logging? How much does your sys admin know about Oracle? We have a data warehouse that gets updated weekly. The day after the load we perform a cold backup. We don't use archive logging. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 3:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Bobak, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Hi Dennis, On average, we load data weekly. The load time is no more 40 minutes to an hour. Like I said, we're small at the moment. We're at about 70GB which includes temp and undo and growing at the rate of about 2GB a month. Consequence of a failure has been discussed with the developers and users. Developers say that they can live without the DW for one business day. The users don't access the database directly so they would not be affected. As far as critical data being lost, well if we loose the database and we have BCVs in place, we can just reload any data that is missing from the flat files, so no biggie there. Also, I take an export of the entire database after a load. As far as how much the sys admin knows about Oracle well... knows enough from a sys admin perspective that we can converse intelligently but I suspect still holds to the old myths about Oracle that have been discussed on this list. Appreciate your input. mohammed --- DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mohammed - When is this database updated? Once/week? Daily? Continuously? If there is a failure, what is the consequence of returning to the last backup? How much critical data will be lost? How will recovery times be affected with/without archive logging? How much does your sys admin know about Oracle? We have a data warehouse that gets updated weekly. The day after the load we perform a cold backup. We don't use archive logging. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 3:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Yes but... The developers use Cognos tools for all their development. Nobody writes any PL/SQL, triggers etc. So again, all that the developers might lose is data that they loaded which can be easily recovered by re-running the ETL process. What I'm trying to say is that the environment from the database perpective is fairly static except when data is loaded. No users accessing directly, deveopers using third party tools for development and data changing slowly. Thanks for the input. mohammed --- Mladen Gogala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, recovery might be just a wee bit faster then re-loading few gigs of data using SQL. Also, developers on that DW might lose any work that they haven't done the night before. This is a production database, which means that it absolutely must be in archive log mode. One of the big reasons is that you'll have to answer the question why isn't the production DW in the archive log mode whenever you encounter an oracle consultant. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). GenePS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelogmode. Period. End of story.Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good.Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set ofrequirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might evenconvince me...but I doubt it...;-)-MarkMark J. BobakOracle DBAProQuest CompanyAnn Arbor, MI"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, anda sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is." --Unknown-Original Message-Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LHave a question on backups in a DW environment.Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projectedto grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying toconvince the sys admin that I don't want archivelogging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense.He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to(and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants toturn on archiving. My thinking is why turn onarchiving if I can restore my DB from last night'sBCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading anydata that was loaded after the BCV split.Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before theBCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by usersfor ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access thedatabase and build cubes using Cognos tools. Usersaccess these and not the DB directly.So, again I don't see the need for archive logging.Any thoughts?mohammed__Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakeshttp://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: Bobak, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Bobak, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Bobak, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
BCV = Business Continuity Volume On 2004.01.09 19:39, Ryan wrote: I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Hi Ryan, Not for RMAN. I meant a license for Veritas or Legato. See Mladen's reply re: BCV (basically EMC takes a snapshot of the mount points onto corresponding mount points i.e. a 1-to-1 mapping for each mount point onto a BCV mount point) Hope that clears up the confusion. mohammed --- Ryan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
The license is for the software that interfaces Veritas NetBackup to RMAN. RMAN has an API and NBU has an API. The intersection of the 2 will set you back about $1500 US IIRC. Jared Ryan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2004 04:39 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Backups in a DW Environment I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Anyone look at the 10g new features? Is this one of things Oracle is claiming they can eliminate with 10g? So you dont need this license? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 8:29 PM Subject: Re: Backups in a DW Environment The license is for the software that interfaces Veritas NetBackup to RMAN. RMAN has an API and NBU has an API. The intersection of the 2 will set you back about $1500 US IIRC.Jared "Ryan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2004 04:39 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Backups in a DW EnvironmentI never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Cansomeone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you moremoney to do use another product with veriftas and legato?What is a 'BCV'?- Original Message -To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that "ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS". Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is." --Unknown-Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Mohammed, Comments inline... on 1/9/04 2:24 PM, mkb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. On the contrary, not using archivelog mode is what makes less sense, thus justifying more careful consideration and justification. Archivelogging is the industry standard and makes complete sense in all but a few extreme cases. Have you considered what archive logging actually provides for you, and what is necessary to engineer the same effects on your own? Think it through... He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. The rebuild-then-reload method seems to make sense on paper, but it is the cause of extreme difficultly in actual practice. If you have not yet already implemented a very mature change-management procedure, to record all changes in the database, complete with all of the security to prevent it being bypassed, then you are in for a rough time. Robust change-management and ironclad security always makes sense, but the extra insurance of being able to recover every change using archivelogging makes sense also. Also, on the topic of BCV splits, one of the problems of using BCV splits (or file-system snapshots or similar snapshot schemes) is that, while it makes backups very easy, it does not make recovery any easier. This type of backup-centric thinking is very seductive. What is the purpose of the whole exercise? Taking backups? Or being recoverable? Oracle Recovery Manager (RMAN) is not named Backup Manager for a reason. RMAN is recovery-centric. It seems more complex on the backup end of things (it isn't), but it is undeniably easier on the recovery side of things. Try to work RMAN into your strategy at all times. It is worth the extra consideration. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. Any data warehouse that is shutdown, even for a few minutes, just to take a backup, has been engineered to fail. People keep data warehouses busy on a 24x7 basis just like any other system. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed Hope this helps... -Tim -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed === message truncated === __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
