Re: [osg-users] Migration of website and version control
Hi All, Thanks for the feedback so far, keep it coming. Forgot to mention, we use cdash as well, this is invaluable for me when we are converging towards a release so it's a service we'll want to maintain. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Migration of website and version control
Robert, We have been using github for the osgEarth project and we're happy with it. Here are some pros: Github's pull-request system is nice (as a replacement for the osg-submissions process). You can do your diff analysis right in the browser. Here's an example: http://goo.gl/KacWp The integrated wiki is supposedly git-backed, i.e. all your wiki pages are stored in a repository alongside the source repo. So in theory migrating the existing wiki over should be a matter of pushing the files up there. (Haven't tried it though.) Github also has an integrated issue-tracker if you decide to use it someday. Glenn Waldron / Pelican Mapping / @glennwaldron On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 7:24 AM, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.comwrote: Hi All, I would like to start a discussion about migrating our website and version control services to new servers and feel this might be a good opportunity to change the technology that we use on the server for providing the website and version control services. One of the reasons that adds a little imperative to the move is that the current hosts of our server AI2, Universidad Politecnica de Valencia, Spain, look unlikely to be able to continue providing due to funding cuts. Technology wise it would also be good to find a better wiki and version control system. We also need engineers to help out with migration and ongoing maintenance of new servers and services that will be moving too. There is a wide range of different hosts and technologies we could use, and I'm happy to admit that I'm no expect in hosting, webserves, wiki management, version control systems, but this is a huge community so no doubt there is lots opinions, and perhaps even a few experts out there that might be able to help out with great suggestions and time to make things happen. To help kick things off. On the hosting side I currently have a Dreamhost account that provides the mailing lists services that we currently use, and my account looks to be sufficient for provide a Tracs and Subversion services as well - so pontentially we could move to Dreamhost and rely upon them for management of the server and server software and let us concentrate on the content. I really don't know how well this would work out having not tried to migrate services other than mailman across to them. If we do have to move existing services across quickly this might be strong contender. Technology wise I am comfortable with Subversion, but for fully distributed it's not as powerful as newer technologies like git. We've discussed both Mercurial and git on the mailing list before as possible contenders and feedback I've got from various experiments out in the community is that git looks to be most practical for our needs. Rather spend lots of time discussing the pros and cons of these two technologies I'm happy to narrow things down to migrating to git. What is open for discussion is really when and how we migrate to git. One possibility with migrating to git would be to have our own server, use a host like Dreamhost or go with another 3rd party like github. For the latter there is already a mirror of our subversion repository hosted over at github maintained by members of the community (please come forward as I've forgotten who set it up :-) : https://github.com/openscenegraph/osg I haven't used git too much yet other than to check out third party libs, but when the time comes I'll just have to roll my sleeves and dive and learn to use it properly. github also now have their own wiki, Gollum: https://github.com/features/projects/wikis I know nothing about Gollum so can't comment on it, I'm not overly impressed by Tracs - it's been sufficient but not that that powerful, so I'm reluctant to go with yet another dev wiki that is almost by not quite as powerful as the likes of MediaWiki. I have to admit that I really don't know too much about the practical behind the scenes management of MediaWiki let alone Gollum and Tracs so I really need to feedback from the community of the various strengths, weaknesses and practicalities. Finally once we've decided upon hosts for our needs, and the technologies that we migrate too we'll need to do the migration of our present wiki and version control systems. We'll need the engineers to help our with coordinating and undertaking this work. Once we've got a basic plan and the people in place we start migrating bit by bit. I look forward to your thoughts and in particular your offers of assistance ;-) Cheers, Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Migration of website and version control
Hi Glenn, On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Glenn Waldron gwald...@gmail.com wrote: Here are some pros: Github's pull-request system is nice (as a replacement for the osg-submissions process). You can do your diff analysis right in the browser. Here's an example: http://goo.gl/KacWp Thanks for the link. I find patch syntax good for a quick look, but not sufficient for full code review. Is there any system for doing a graphical diff between the submission and the original? It could be that the later I just do manually on my local system like I do right now when I formally accept a patch. The integrated wiki is supposedly git-backed, i.e. all your wiki pages are stored in a repository alongside the source repo. So in theory migrating the existing wiki over should be a matter of pushing the files up there. (Haven't tried it though.) Pulling in a wiki would be easy if it used exactly the same wiki syntax but I very much down Tracs wiki and Gollum wiki are compatible. At best there would be a converter. Github also has an integrated issue-tracker if you decide to use it someday. Tracs has one that I never got into ;-) Never say never, but for now my priority is migrating the website, subversion - git and cdash across. Having the possibility of issue tracking is no bad thing, let sort out everything else first. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Migration of website and version control
On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:49 AM, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Glenn, On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Glenn Waldron gwald...@gmail.com wrote: Here are some pros: Github's pull-request system is nice (as a replacement for the osg-submissions process). You can do your diff analysis right in the browser. Here's an example: http://goo.gl/KacWp Thanks for the link. I find patch syntax good for a quick look, but not sufficient for full code review. Is there any system for doing a graphical diff between the submission and the original? It could be that the later I just do manually on my local system like I do right now when I formally accept a patch. Right, it's handy for a quick look (trivial rejections for example) or for merging documentation changes. No, github does not have a conflict resolution tool. You would still bring down the pull request and do that on the client. I use TortoiseGit (Windows client) for that. The integrated wiki is supposedly git-backed, i.e. all your wiki pages are stored in a repository alongside the source repo. So in theory migrating the existing wiki over should be a matter of pushing the files up there. (Haven't tried it though.) Pulling in a wiki would be easy if it used exactly the same wiki syntax but I very much down Tracs wiki and Gollum wiki are compatible. At best there would be a converter. Github also has an integrated issue-tracker if you decide to use it someday. Tracs has one that I never got into ;-) Never say never, but for now my priority is migrating the website, subversion - git and cdash across. Having the possibility of issue tracking is no bad thing, let sort out everything else first. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
[osg-users] Migration of website and version control
Hi All, I would like to start a discussion about migrating our website and version control services to new servers and feel this might be a good opportunity to change the technology that we use on the server for providing the website and version control services. One of the reasons that adds a little imperative to the move is that the current hosts of our server AI2, Universidad Politecnica de Valencia, Spain, look unlikely to be able to continue providing due to funding cuts. Technology wise it would also be good to find a better wiki and version control system. We also need engineers to help out with migration and ongoing maintenance of new servers and services that will be moving too. There is a wide range of different hosts and technologies we could use, and I'm happy to admit that I'm no expect in hosting, webserves, wiki management, version control systems, but this is a huge community so no doubt there is lots opinions, and perhaps even a few experts out there that might be able to help out with great suggestions and time to make things happen. To help kick things off. On the hosting side I currently have a Dreamhost account that provides the mailing lists services that we currently use, and my account looks to be sufficient for provide a Tracs and Subversion services as well - so pontentially we could move to Dreamhost and rely upon them for management of the server and server software and let us concentrate on the content. I really don't know how well this would work out having not tried to migrate services other than mailman across to them. If we do have to move existing services across quickly this might be strong contender. Technology wise I am comfortable with Subversion, but for fully distributed it's not as powerful as newer technologies like git. We've discussed both Mercurial and git on the mailing list before as possible contenders and feedback I've got from various experiments out in the community is that git looks to be most practical for our needs. Rather spend lots of time discussing the pros and cons of these two technologies I'm happy to narrow things down to migrating to git. What is open for discussion is really when and how we migrate to git. One possibility with migrating to git would be to have our own server, use a host like Dreamhost or go with another 3rd party like github. For the latter there is already a mirror of our subversion repository hosted over at github maintained by members of the community (please come forward as I've forgotten who set it up :-) : https://github.com/openscenegraph/osg I haven't used git too much yet other than to check out third party libs, but when the time comes I'll just have to roll my sleeves and dive and learn to use it properly. github also now have their own wiki, Gollum: https://github.com/features/projects/wikis I know nothing about Gollum so can't comment on it, I'm not overly impressed by Tracs - it's been sufficient but not that that powerful, so I'm reluctant to go with yet another dev wiki that is almost by not quite as powerful as the likes of MediaWiki. I have to admit that I really don't know too much about the practical behind the scenes management of MediaWiki let alone Gollum and Tracs so I really need to feedback from the community of the various strengths, weaknesses and practicalities. Finally once we've decided upon hosts for our needs, and the technologies that we migrate too we'll need to do the migration of our present wiki and version control systems. We'll need the engineers to help our with coordinating and undertaking this work. Once we've got a basic plan and the people in place we start migrating bit by bit. I look forward to your thoughts and in particular your offers of assistance ;-) Cheers, Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Migration of website and version control
Hi Robert, I havend used git in detail, just do download some projects. I gree that it might be better to point directly to git instead of open a large discussion overweeks without result. Regarding the wiki I can't help you. I personally use Horde, but I think its more a groupware with wiki and SCM than a project management suite. I have read about redmine but never played with it. I think it is a good decision to go on with the migration. The website had some downtime in the last years. Maybe it is also possible top provide project space to OSG related projects, so they can be concentrated under a single roof. Anyway, thanks to the Universidad Politecnica de Valencia, Spain for hosting OSG for a long time. Cheers, Torben -- Read this topic online here: http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?p=43639#43639 ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Migration of website and version control
Hi, I thinking moving to git would be a very positive move. I haven't used it a great deal but I am very familiar which mercurial which is similar. I have also recently been involved in migrating a fairly large project from SVN to mercurial so I might be able to contribute something on the technical side of any move. For the wiki, I quite like Confluence (http://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence/overview ). I have used it for many years and it is simple, powerful and works well. It is a commercial product but they licence it free to open source projects (http://www.atlassian.com/software/views/open-source-license-request ). It also integrates very nicely with their issue tracking software JIRA which is also a great product. They do offer hosted instances at a monthly rate but I haven't had any experience with this as we host our own servers. Cheers, Brad -Original Message- From: osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org [mailto:osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org] On Behalf Of Robert Osfield Sent: Monday, 31 October 2011 7:24 PM To: OpenSceneGraph Users Subject: [osg-users] Migration of website and version control Hi All, I would like to start a discussion about migrating our website and version control services to new servers and feel this might be a good opportunity to change the technology that we use on the server for providing the website and version control services. One of the reasons that adds a little imperative to the move is that the current hosts of our server AI2, Universidad Politecnica de Valencia, Spain, look unlikely to be able to continue providing due to funding cuts. Technology wise it would also be good to find a better wiki and version control system. We also need engineers to help out with migration and ongoing maintenance of new servers and services that will be moving too. There is a wide range of different hosts and technologies we could use, and I'm happy to admit that I'm no expect in hosting, webserves, wiki management, version control systems, but this is a huge community so no doubt there is lots opinions, and perhaps even a few experts out there that might be able to help out with great suggestions and time to make things happen. To help kick things off. On the hosting side I currently have a Dreamhost account that provides the mailing lists services that we currently use, and my account looks to be sufficient for provide a Tracs and Subversion services as well - so pontentially we could move to Dreamhost and rely upon them for management of the server and server software and let us concentrate on the content. I really don't know how well this would work out having not tried to migrate services other than mailman across to them. If we do have to move existing services across quickly this might be strong contender. Technology wise I am comfortable with Subversion, but for fully distributed it's not as powerful as newer technologies like git. We've discussed both Mercurial and git on the mailing list before as possible contenders and feedback I've got from various experiments out in the community is that git looks to be most practical for our needs. Rather spend lots of time discussing the pros and cons of these two technologies I'm happy to narrow things down to migrating to git. What is open for discussion is really when and how we migrate to git. One possibility with migrating to git would be to have our own server, use a host like Dreamhost or go with another 3rd party like github. For the latter there is already a mirror of our subversion repository hosted over at github maintained by members of the community (please come forward as I've forgotten who set it up :-) : https://github.com/openscenegraph/osg I haven't used git too much yet other than to check out third party libs, but when the time comes I'll just have to roll my sleeves and dive and learn to use it properly. github also now have their own wiki, Gollum: https://github.com/features/projects/wikis I know nothing about Gollum so can't comment on it, I'm not overly impressed by Tracs - it's been sufficient but not that that powerful, so I'm reluctant to go with yet another dev wiki that is almost by not quite as powerful as the likes of MediaWiki. I have to admit that I really don't know too much about the practical behind the scenes management of MediaWiki let alone Gollum and Tracs so I really need to feedback from the community of the various strengths, weaknesses and practicalities. Finally once we've decided upon hosts for our needs, and the technologies that we migrate too we'll need to do the migration of our present wiki and version control systems. We'll need the engineers to help our with coordinating and undertaking this work. Once we've got a basic plan and the people in place we start migrating bit by bit. I look forward to your thoughts and in particular your offers of assistance ;-) Cheers, Robert
Re: [osg-users] Migration of website and version control
Hi Brad, It is a commercial product but they licence it free to open source projects (http://www.atlassian.com/software/views/open-source-license-request ). I would advise against going with a commercial product that has a special license for open source projects. There has been a history of these companies either going away (the company goes bankrupt, where is your website then?) or just unilaterally removing support for open source projects when they disagree with something they did (Bazaar for example, which prompted the development of git). I think an open source project should rely on open source projects for its infrastructure and community management. It just makes sense. I've had some experience managing a few small wikis using MediaWiki, it's powerful and easy to use. The only thing that might be missing is some plugin to integrate it with git, but I'm sure something like that exists already, we just have to search a bit. J-S -- __ Jean-Sébastien Guayjean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.dyndns-web.com/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Migration of website and version control
Hi J-S, Jean-Sébastien Guay writes: Hi Brad, It is a commercial product but they licence it free to open source projects (http://www.atlassian.com/software/views/open-source-license-request ). I would advise against going with a commercial product that has a special license for open source projects. There has been a history of these companies either going away (the company goes bankrupt, where is your website then?) or just unilaterally removing support for open source projects when they disagree with something they did (Bazaar for example, which prompted the development of git). Sorry about the nitpicking. Did you mean BitKeeper? :) -- Alberto ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Migration of website and version control
Hi Alberto, Sorry about the nitpicking. Did you mean BitKeeper? :) Err, yeah you're absolutely right. ;-) J-S -- __ Jean-Sébastien Guayjean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.dyndns-web.com/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Migration of website and version control
On 10/31/2011 5:24 AM, Robert Osfield wrote: To help kick things off. On the hosting side I currently have a Dreamhost account that provides the mailing lists services that we currently use, and my account looks to be sufficient for provide a Tracs and Subversion services as well - so pontentially we could move to Dreamhost and rely upon them for management of the server and server software and let us concentrate on the content. I really don't know how well this would work out having not tried to migrate services other than mailman across to them. If we do have to move existing services across quickly this might be strong contender. I've used Dreamhost for a long time (2002) and they're pretty good. My DH site is not high-traffic, but they've been fairly reliable. More reliable than Valencia (though I don't know the reasons for Valencia's downtime). If you go with Git (and there's a lot of discussion about Git vs Hg -- I've used Hg more recently), I'd just use GitHub. They seem to have this stuff figured out. No sense badly reinventing git hosting. I do NOT think OSG should run our own repository at this stage of the game, even if we _CAN_. github also now have their own wiki, Gollum: https://github.com/features/projects/wikis Chances are, it's adequate to do the things that TRAC's Wiki already does. In that case, it's good enough for me. I could also possibly offer to host the website myself. I have a colo box in a datacenter in Denver that hosts all my website and my OSG binary downloads. I don't pay for metered bandwidth, I only pay a flat monthly cost. My current server might be adequate for the task, but it might be pushing it too. I could figure out what it would cost for a newer machine (I'm budgeting a new rackmount server right now for another project) and the monthly monetary costs. I'd volunteer to install and keep the machine running if the community could assist with the hardware and recurring expense. I've done this for some other not-for-profit organizations I work with. The bandwidth is not guaranteed throughput, but we can pay for a 10Mb or 100Mb pipe and get quite a bit of utilization out of them. Finally once we've decided upon hosts for our needs, and the technologies that we migrate too we'll need to do the migration of our present wiki and version control systems. We'll need the engineers to help our with coordinating and undertaking this work. Once we've got a basic plan and the people in place we start migrating bit by bit. I'm probably not a good person to step forward for this. I especially know nothing about Wiki migrating, but even if we have to do that by hard, that's something non-sysadmin types could help with -- copying and reformatting a page and adding it to the new site. It might also be useful to see if there is interest in moving the Forum interface to the same hosting platform. -- Chris 'Xenon' Hanson, omo sanza lettere. xe...@alphapixel.com http://www.alphapixel.com/ Digital Imaging. OpenGL. Scene Graphs. GIS. GPS. Training. Consulting. Contracting. There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist. - Xen ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Migration of website and version control
I'll put my 3 cents on Dream-host, I have used them for nearly 10 years for all my sites, their pretty good and their up time is up there as well Gordon Tomlinson 3D Technical Product Manager (System Engineering Consultant) Overwatch An Operating Unit of Textron Systems __ -Original Message- From: osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org [mailto:osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org] On Behalf Of Chris 'Xenon' Hanson Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 12:39 PM To: OpenSceneGraph Users Subject: Re: [osg-users] Migration of website and version control On 10/31/2011 5:24 AM, Robert Osfield wrote: To help kick things off. On the hosting side I currently have a Dreamhost account that provides the mailing lists services that we currently use, and my account looks to be sufficient for provide a Tracs and Subversion services as well - so pontentially we could move to Dreamhost and rely upon them for management of the server and server software and let us concentrate on the content. I really don't know how well this would work out having not tried to migrate services other than mailman across to them. If we do have to move existing services across quickly this might be strong contender. I've used Dreamhost for a long time (2002) and they're pretty good. My DH site is not high-traffic, but they've been fairly reliable. More reliable than Valencia (though I don't know the reasons for Valencia's downtime). If you go with Git (and there's a lot of discussion about Git vs Hg -- I've used Hg more recently), I'd just use GitHub. They seem to have this stuff figured out. No sense badly reinventing git hosting. I do NOT think OSG should run our own repository at this stage of the game, even if we _CAN_. github also now have their own wiki, Gollum: https://github.com/features/projects/wikis Chances are, it's adequate to do the things that TRAC's Wiki already does. In that case, it's good enough for me. I could also possibly offer to host the website myself. I have a colo box in a datacenter in Denver that hosts all my website and my OSG binary downloads. I don't pay for metered bandwidth, I only pay a flat monthly cost. My current server might be adequate for the task, but it might be pushing it too. I could figure out what it would cost for a newer machine (I'm budgeting a new rackmount server right now for another project) and the monthly monetary costs. I'd volunteer to install and keep the machine running if the community could assist with the hardware and recurring expense. I've done this for some other not-for-profit organizations I work with. The bandwidth is not guaranteed throughput, but we can pay for a 10Mb or 100Mb pipe and get quite a bit of utilization out of them. Finally once we've decided upon hosts for our needs, and the technologies that we migrate too we'll need to do the migration of our present wiki and version control systems. We'll need the engineers to help our with coordinating and undertaking this work. Once we've got a basic plan and the people in place we start migrating bit by bit. I'm probably not a good person to step forward for this. I especially know nothing about Wiki migrating, but even if we have to do that by hard, that's something non-sysadmin types could help with -- copying and reformatting a page and adding it to the new site. It might also be useful to see if there is interest in moving the Forum interface to the same hosting platform. -- Chris 'Xenon' Hanson, omo sanza lettere. xe...@alphapixel.com http://www.alphapixel.com/ Digital Imaging. OpenGL. Scene Graphs. GIS. GPS. Training. Consulting. Contracting. There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist. - Xen ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
