Re: [osgi-dev] Using Gradle or Maven on a new OSGi project

[Raymond Auge via osgi-dev]

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 11:24 AM Stephen Schaub via osgi-dev <
osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org> wrote:

> Over on the bndtools list, Raymond Auge indicated that live code
> deployment isn't supported in Eclipse with a standard Gradle project
> structure.
>

Yet! :) but it's not too far away I would think.

- Ray


>
> Stephen
>
> On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 11:04 AM Tim Ward  wrote:
>
>> Interestingly this is the opposite conclusion that most people come to.
>> Until recently Bndtools did not support Maven at all and was 100% Gradle.
>> There has been a lot of work to bring Maven support up to the same level as
>> Gradle by the team, but I don’t think that many of us would say that Maven
>> support was at parity yet, let alone better.
>>
>> You absolutely do get live code deployment when using Bndtools + Gradle
>> (Maven only recently got this feature and Gradle has had it for years).
>> Live baselining in Eclipse is still only available with Gradle, as are the
>> quick-fixes for lots of bed-detected problems.
>>
>> You are correct that IntelliJ is more Maven-focussed, but that is because
>> it doesn’t have additional plugins like Bndtools, so you’re just getting
>> the support they have for Maven.
>>
>> When it comes to Karaf, that isn’t really part of Bndtools. The Karaf
>> project has always been heavily Maven-based, and so if you want to use
>> their tools then Maven is probably the way to go.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On 25 Jul 2019, at 14:31, Stephen Schaub via osgi-dev <
>> osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org> wrote:
>>
>> A brief follow-up to this thread, after another month into my project:
>>
>> I have found that although Gradle will work fine as a build tool for
>> OSGi, it does seem that Maven is better supported for OSGi development in
>> Eclipse. For example, the Eclipse bndtools plugins support live code
>> deployment if you're using Maven, but not Gradle. I have also seen a post
>> describing doing live code deployment from IDEA that requires Maven. So, I
>> conclude that Maven is definitely preferred over Gradle when it comes to
>> OSGi IDE tooling.
>>
>> Also, although there is a Gradle plugin for generating kar archives for
>> Karaf, I have encountered issues using it with current versions of Gradle.
>>
>> Finally, many OSGi examples I find online seem to be using Maven rather
>> than Gradle as the build tool.
>>
>> These issues have not caused me to abandon Gradle, because I prefer it to
>> Maven, and I am grateful that the bnd project continues to have great
>> support for Gradle. However, overall, I am left with the impression that
>> there is better support for Maven than for Gradle in the broader OSGi
>> ecosystem.
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 10:11 AM Stephen Schaub 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks to all for the helpful responses. I was concerned about using
>>> Gradle as a build tool because so many OSGi resources I was finding seemed
>>> to be using Maven, and the change of enRoute docs from Gradle to Maven
>>> seemed to communicate a move away from Gradle as a "preferred" build tool.
>>> But given that Maven still seems to be the dominant build tool in the Java
>>> world, I can understand the rationale for transitioning enRoute from Gradle
>>> to Maven. Also, I can understand that maintaining both Maven and Gradle
>>> versions of enRoute would be a burden.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 4:28 PM Stephen Schaub 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm new to OSGi and am starting a project. I found the enRoute material
 and noticed that the enRoute tutorials apparently at one time utilized
 Gradle as the build tool, but are now using Maven.

 I'm more familiar with Gradle and have worked out how to use Gradle to
 do what I need for the project, but I was wondering 1) why the switch from
 Gradle to Maven for enRoute and 2) is Maven the preferred build tool for
 OSGi going forward? Is there a reason I should consider switching to Maven?

 I've poked through the mailing list archives trying to find answers to
 these questions but can't seem to find a record of any discussions about
 this, so am hoping someone can shed some light for me.

 --
 Stephen Schaub

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Stephen Schaub
>> ___
>> OSGi Developer Mail List
>> osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org
>> https://mail.osgi.org/mailman/listinfo/osgi-dev
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Stephen Schaub
> ___
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> osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org
> https://mail.osgi.org/mailman/listinfo/osgi-dev



-- 
*Raymond Augé* 
 (@rotty3000)
Senior Software Architect *Liferay, Inc.* 
 (@Liferay)
Board Member & EEG Co-Chair, OSGi Alliance  (@OSGiAlliance)
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Re: [osgi-dev] Using Gradle or Maven on a new OSGi project

[Stephen Schaub via osgi-dev]

Tim,

You're right about live code deployment being possible with Eclipse +
Bndtools + Gradle. I should have qualified my statement: I'm using a build
setup that is a standard Gradle project structure (non-Bnd workspace),
because I didn't want to have to adopt the Bnd workspace model. Over on the
bndtools list, Raymond Auge indicated that live code deployment isn't
supported in Eclipse with a standard Gradle project structure.

Stephen

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 11:04 AM Tim Ward  wrote:

> Interestingly this is the opposite conclusion that most people come to.
> Until recently Bndtools did not support Maven at all and was 100% Gradle.
> There has been a lot of work to bring Maven support up to the same level as
> Gradle by the team, but I don’t think that many of us would say that Maven
> support was at parity yet, let alone better.
>
> You absolutely do get live code deployment when using Bndtools + Gradle
> (Maven only recently got this feature and Gradle has had it for years).
> Live baselining in Eclipse is still only available with Gradle, as are the
> quick-fixes for lots of bed-detected problems.
>
> You are correct that IntelliJ is more Maven-focussed, but that is because
> it doesn’t have additional plugins like Bndtools, so you’re just getting
> the support they have for Maven.
>
> When it comes to Karaf, that isn’t really part of Bndtools. The Karaf
> project has always been heavily Maven-based, and so if you want to use
> their tools then Maven is probably the way to go.
>
> All the best,
>
> Tim
>
> On 25 Jul 2019, at 14:31, Stephen Schaub via osgi-dev <
> osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org> wrote:
>
> A brief follow-up to this thread, after another month into my project:
>
> I have found that although Gradle will work fine as a build tool for OSGi,
> it does seem that Maven is better supported for OSGi development in
> Eclipse. For example, the Eclipse bndtools plugins support live code
> deployment if you're using Maven, but not Gradle. I have also seen a post
> describing doing live code deployment from IDEA that requires Maven. So, I
> conclude that Maven is definitely preferred over Gradle when it comes to
> OSGi IDE tooling.
>
> Also, although there is a Gradle plugin for generating kar archives for
> Karaf, I have encountered issues using it with current versions of Gradle.
>
> Finally, many OSGi examples I find online seem to be using Maven rather
> than Gradle as the build tool.
>
> These issues have not caused me to abandon Gradle, because I prefer it to
> Maven, and I am grateful that the bnd project continues to have great
> support for Gradle. However, overall, I am left with the impression that
> there is better support for Maven than for Gradle in the broader OSGi
> ecosystem.
>
> Stephen
>
> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 10:11 AM Stephen Schaub  wrote:
>
>> Thanks to all for the helpful responses. I was concerned about using
>> Gradle as a build tool because so many OSGi resources I was finding seemed
>> to be using Maven, and the change of enRoute docs from Gradle to Maven
>> seemed to communicate a move away from Gradle as a "preferred" build tool.
>> But given that Maven still seems to be the dominant build tool in the Java
>> world, I can understand the rationale for transitioning enRoute from Gradle
>> to Maven. Also, I can understand that maintaining both Maven and Gradle
>> versions of enRoute would be a burden.
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 4:28 PM Stephen Schaub  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm new to OSGi and am starting a project. I found the enRoute material
>>> and noticed that the enRoute tutorials apparently at one time utilized
>>> Gradle as the build tool, but are now using Maven.
>>>
>>> I'm more familiar with Gradle and have worked out how to use Gradle to
>>> do what I need for the project, but I was wondering 1) why the switch from
>>> Gradle to Maven for enRoute and 2) is Maven the preferred build tool for
>>> OSGi going forward? Is there a reason I should consider switching to Maven?
>>>
>>> I've poked through the mailing list archives trying to find answers to
>>> these questions but can't seem to find a record of any discussions about
>>> this, so am hoping someone can shed some light for me.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Stephen Schaub
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Stephen Schaub
> ___
> OSGi Developer Mail List
> osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org
> https://mail.osgi.org/mailman/listinfo/osgi-dev
>
>
>

-- 
Stephen Schaub
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Re: [osgi-dev] Using Gradle or Maven on a new OSGi project

[Tim Ward via osgi-dev]

Interestingly this is the opposite conclusion that most people come to. Until 
recently Bndtools did not support Maven at all and was 100% Gradle. There has 
been a lot of work to bring Maven support up to the same level as Gradle by the 
team, but I don’t think that many of us would say that Maven support was at 
parity yet, let alone better.

You absolutely do get live code deployment when using Bndtools + Gradle (Maven 
only recently got this feature and Gradle has had it for years). Live 
baselining in Eclipse is still only available with Gradle, as are the 
quick-fixes for lots of bed-detected problems. 

You are correct that IntelliJ is more Maven-focussed, but that is because it 
doesn’t have additional plugins like Bndtools, so you’re just getting the 
support they have for Maven.

When it comes to Karaf, that isn’t really part of Bndtools. The Karaf project 
has always been heavily Maven-based, and so if you want to use their tools then 
Maven is probably the way to go.

All the best,

Tim

> On 25 Jul 2019, at 14:31, Stephen Schaub via osgi-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> A brief follow-up to this thread, after another month into my project:
> 
> I have found that although Gradle will work fine as a build tool for OSGi, it 
> does seem that Maven is better supported for OSGi development in Eclipse. For 
> example, the Eclipse bndtools plugins support live code deployment if you're 
> using Maven, but not Gradle. I have also seen a post describing doing live 
> code deployment from IDEA that requires Maven. So, I conclude that Maven is 
> definitely preferred over Gradle when it comes to OSGi IDE tooling.
> 
> Also, although there is a Gradle plugin for generating kar archives for 
> Karaf, I have encountered issues using it with current versions of Gradle.
> 
> Finally, many OSGi examples I find online seem to be using Maven rather than 
> Gradle as the build tool.
> 
> These issues have not caused me to abandon Gradle, because I prefer it to 
> Maven, and I am grateful that the bnd project continues to have great support 
> for Gradle. However, overall, I am left with the impression that there is 
> better support for Maven than for Gradle in the broader OSGi ecosystem. 
> 
> Stephen
> 
> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 10:11 AM Stephen Schaub  > wrote:
> Thanks to all for the helpful responses. I was concerned about using Gradle 
> as a build tool because so many OSGi resources I was finding seemed to be 
> using Maven, and the change of enRoute docs from Gradle to Maven seemed to 
> communicate a move away from Gradle as a "preferred" build tool. But given 
> that Maven still seems to be the dominant build tool in the Java world, I can 
> understand the rationale for transitioning enRoute from Gradle to Maven. 
> Also, I can understand that maintaining both Maven and Gradle versions of 
> enRoute would be a burden. 
> 
> Stephen
> 
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 4:28 PM Stephen Schaub  > wrote:
> I'm new to OSGi and am starting a project. I found the enRoute material and 
> noticed that the enRoute tutorials apparently at one time utilized Gradle as 
> the build tool, but are now using Maven. 
> 
> I'm more familiar with Gradle and have worked out how to use Gradle to do 
> what I need for the project, but I was wondering 1) why the switch from 
> Gradle to Maven for enRoute and 2) is Maven the preferred build tool for OSGi 
> going forward? Is there a reason I should consider switching to Maven?
> 
> I've poked through the mailing list archives trying to find answers to these 
> questions but can't seem to find a record of any discussions about this, so 
> am hoping someone can shed some light for me.
> 
> -- 
> Stephen Schaub
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Stephen Schaub
> ___
> OSGi Developer Mail List
> osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org 
> https://mail.osgi.org/mailman/listinfo/osgi-dev 
> 
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Re: [osgi-dev] OSGi book recommendations

[Tim Ward via osgi-dev]

As far as English Language books go, I’m not aware of anything that fits the 
bill. Enterprise OSGi in Action is probably the most “up to date” of the books, 
but it uses Blueprint. OSGi in Depth mostly focuses on the low-level APIs 
(which I would definitely not recommend using), OSGi in Action uses Declarative 
Services, but pre-dates the annotations. 

The Spring-centric books are probably best avoided at this point as Spring DM 
server hasn’t existed for some time.

If you find anything useful then do let me know.

Tim


> On 25 Jul 2019, at 14:38, Stephen Schaub via osgi-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for a recent book on OSGi to recommend to new OSGi developers. 
> Something that takes a Declarative Services annotation approach from the 
> beginning, and uses current recommended tools and best practices.
> 
> Most of the books on the OSGi recommended books list seem to be several years 
> old:
> 
> https://www.osgi.org/developer/resources/books/ 
>  
> 
> I saw that Neil Bartlett was starting a new book titled Effective OSGi a few 
> years ago, but don't see that it's out yet.
> 
> Any recommendations?
> 
> Stephen
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[osgi-dev] OSGi book recommendations

[Stephen Schaub via osgi-dev]

I'm looking for a recent book on OSGi to recommend to new OSGi developers.
Something that takes a Declarative Services annotation approach from the
beginning, and uses current recommended tools and best practices.

Most of the books on the OSGi recommended books list seem to be several
years old:

https://www.osgi.org/developer/resources/books/

I saw that Neil Bartlett was starting a new book titled Effective OSGi a
few years ago, but don't see that it's out yet.

Any recommendations?

Stephen
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Re: [osgi-dev] Using Gradle or Maven on a new OSGi project

[Stephen Schaub via osgi-dev]

A brief follow-up to this thread, after another month into my project:

I have found that although Gradle will work fine as a build tool for OSGi,
it does seem that Maven is better supported for OSGi development in
Eclipse. For example, the Eclipse bndtools plugins support live code
deployment if you're using Maven, but not Gradle. I have also seen a post
describing doing live code deployment from IDEA that requires Maven. So, I
conclude that Maven is definitely preferred over Gradle when it comes to
OSGi IDE tooling.

Also, although there is a Gradle plugin for generating kar archives for
Karaf, I have encountered issues using it with current versions of Gradle.

Finally, many OSGi examples I find online seem to be using Maven rather
than Gradle as the build tool.

These issues have not caused me to abandon Gradle, because I prefer it to
Maven, and I am grateful that the bnd project continues to have great
support for Gradle. However, overall, I am left with the impression that
there is better support for Maven than for Gradle in the broader OSGi
ecosystem.

Stephen

On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 10:11 AM Stephen Schaub  wrote:

> Thanks to all for the helpful responses. I was concerned about using
> Gradle as a build tool because so many OSGi resources I was finding seemed
> to be using Maven, and the change of enRoute docs from Gradle to Maven
> seemed to communicate a move away from Gradle as a "preferred" build tool.
> But given that Maven still seems to be the dominant build tool in the Java
> world, I can understand the rationale for transitioning enRoute from Gradle
> to Maven. Also, I can understand that maintaining both Maven and Gradle
> versions of enRoute would be a burden.
>
> Stephen
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 4:28 PM Stephen Schaub  wrote:
>
>> I'm new to OSGi and am starting a project. I found the enRoute material
>> and noticed that the enRoute tutorials apparently at one time utilized
>> Gradle as the build tool, but are now using Maven.
>>
>> I'm more familiar with Gradle and have worked out how to use Gradle to do
>> what I need for the project, but I was wondering 1) why the switch from
>> Gradle to Maven for enRoute and 2) is Maven the preferred build tool for
>> OSGi going forward? Is there a reason I should consider switching to Maven?
>>
>> I've poked through the mailing list archives trying to find answers to
>> these questions but can't seem to find a record of any discussions about
>> this, so am hoping someone can shed some light for me.
>>
>> --
>> Stephen Schaub
>>
>
>
>

-- 
Stephen Schaub
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