Re: [ozmidwifery] What happened with this birth?
Hi Carolyn, Just wanted to say thanks too for the excellent advice. I'll be keeping your email for future reference : ) Cheers Michelle - Original Message From: Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, 29 December, 2006 12:24:40 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] What happened with this birth? Dear Gail, Firstly, your instincts are spot on. This is a very distressing story. It is not a coincidence that these women's labours stalled following his VE's, that is absolutely to be expected and is the result of a mindless disruption of the women's optimal state of neurophyiological functioning. Taylorism, that is an industrial, efficiency management model, has no place in the dynamic fluid process of birth, sadly it has become merged into the 'health' care system with this sort of unconscious abuse becoming more common. 'Discussions' with the doctors at that stage will do nothing except breed resistence and further intervention; in mindless individuals it can even result in payback situations where intervention will be done just because you are the midwife. The right to rule is still endemic in the maternity services. the first thing to understand is that these people really believe they are doing the right thing. the second thing to understand is that they are taught all about the abnormalities of birth, they have absolutely no idea about normal physiology as applied to birth (gross generalisation, I know) the third thing is that they are terrified of birth the fourth thing is that they are taught throughout medical school that they are the boss of everything and the government and health departments agree and structure everything (I know, there are exceptions) to reinforce that idea the fifth and probably MOST important thing is that they do get taught about 'patient' autonomy and the need for consent. So, here is where it gets interesting and where our opportunity lies. It is vitally important that you use every moment with birthing women to help them understand the situation, without making it combatative and engendering a siege mentality and ask them what they want to have happen, how they would like things to go, so they can say what they want - be left alone, checked in another hour a few more hours, more time, a bath, move freely, have the baby listened to by doppler in the shower/bath etc if women have the information that can help them with the deeply damaging throw away lines that get trotted out like 'stillbirth' 'brain damage' etc, then women can say what they want and we as midwives can support them in that and remember to DOCUMENT what women want. To do things against rational people's will is abuse. To argue about medical intervention with midwives is a nuisance and an affront to power beliefs. Getting strategic is important. Learning tactical support of birthing women is a midwifery art form and a very challenging one. It is crucial that you avoid blame, judgement and criticism as these emotional states are damaging for everyone and lead to despair. It is useful to come from the point of view that they mean well but are ignorant about birth physiology and are taught to look for problems. Neuroscience and quantum physics teaches us we find what we are looking for. That also means we make it up if it is not there. Our job is to work with women and their processes, to give women information to make their own decisions and to help them actualise their decisions and to help doctors know what women want. :-) makes it so simple really. Simple does not, however, mean easy. Every time you find yourself with a pregnant and/or birthing woman ask questions of yourself like 'how can I best inform her of her options?' ' how can I best explain the process of birth so she knows what to expect?' 'how can I support her with what she wants?' ' how can I best let her know how well she is doing so that she can feel secure in asking for more time if she needs it?' how can I best let her know her rights so she feels powerful and in control of her process?' some women, no matter what doors you open, will succumb to medical pressue. That is just the way it is and all we can do is support her through her experience with love, compassion and kindness. One last thing, make friends with that doctor. It is not 'sucking up' it is working with integrity. Everyone wants to do a good job. Approach that person, say you feel uncomfortable about the interaction - open dialogue. We need to be friends with each other. Focus on creating a healthy workplace. Over time, you may have more influence as trust deepens between you. We need to focus on the long term with our doctor midwife relationships. Remember that he is scared of birth and wants to control it - the women get in the way of that and get caught in the melee. He is doing the best he can with what he knows. Doctors are not enemies, they are, in
Re: [ozmidwifery] What happened with this birth?
Carolyn, You are amazing...after being completely denigrated by the medicos and some of my colleagues for believing that women DO NOT need V'E's every 4 hours to assess progress of labour, what you have written is a breath of fresh air, with your permission I would like to forward your previous email to my colleagues, to make those who practice obsteric nursing aware and to support those who truly work with women. Have you got some info on Taylorism, I would like saome background on it. Thanks heaps. regards Sally - Original Message - From: Gail McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] What happened with this birth? WOW!!! Thank you thank you thank you. Carolyn, that was just what I needed. Are you going to the homebirth conference this year? If so, I would dearly love to catch up with you everyone else who contributes to the ozmidwifery site. maybe we can wear a flower or something so we recognise each other. Much love and admiration, Gail From: Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] What happened with this birth? Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 13:24:40 +1100 Dear Gail, Firstly, your instincts are spot on. This is a very distressing story. It is not a coincidence that these women's labours stalled following his VE's, that is absolutely to be expected and is the result of a mindless disruption of the women's optimal state of neurophyiological functioning. Taylorism, that is an industrial, efficiency management model, has no place in the dynamic fluid process of birth, sadly it has become merged into the 'health' care system with this sort of unconscious abuse becoming more common. 'Discussions' with the doctors at that stage will do nothing except breed resistence and further intervention; in mindless individuals it can even result in payback situations where intervention will be done just because you are the midwife. The right to rule is still endemic in the maternity services. the first thing to understand is that these people really believe they are doing the right thing. the second thing to understand is that they are taught all about the abnormalities of birth, they have absolutely no idea about normal physiology as applied to birth (gross generalisation, I know) the third thing is that they are terrified of birth the fourth thing is that they are taught throughout medical school that they are the boss of everything and the government and health departments agree and structure everything (I know, there are exceptions) to reinforce that idea the fifth and probably MOST important thing is that they do get taught about 'patient' autonomy and the need for consent. So, here is where it gets interesting and where our opportunity lies. It is vitally important that you use every moment with birthing women to help them understand the situation, without making it combatative and engendering a siege mentality and ask them what they want to have happen, how they would like things to go, so they can say what they want - be left alone, checked in another hour a few more hours, more time, a bath, move freely, have the baby listened to by doppler in the shower/bath etc if women have the information that can help them with the deeply damaging throw away lines that get trotted out like 'stillbirth' 'brain damage' etc, then women can say what they want and we as midwives can support them in that and remember to DOCUMENT what women want. To do things against rational people's will is abuse. To argue about medical intervention with midwives is a nuisance and an affront to power beliefs. Getting strategic is important. Learning tactical support of birthing women is a midwifery art form and a very challenging one. It is crucial that you avoid blame, judgement and criticism as these emotional states are damaging for everyone and lead to despair. It is useful to come from the point of view that they mean well but are ignorant about birth physiology and are taught to look for problems. Neuroscience and quantum physics teaches us we find what we are looking for. That also means we make it up if it is not there. Our job is to work with women and their processes, to give women information to make their own decisions and to help them actualise their decisions and to help doctors know what women want. :-) makes it so simple really. Simple does not, however, mean easy. Every time you find yourself with a pregnant and/or birthing woman ask questions of yourself like 'how can I best inform her of her options?' ' how can I best explain the process of birth so she knows what to expect?' 'how can I support her with what she wants?' ' how can I best let her know how well she is doing so that she can feel secure in asking for more time if
[ozmidwifery] vbac didn't happen
Hi everyone, My friend had a baby boy last night by c.s. I have spoken with her this morning. After being seen by a wonderful midwife from this list, she rang and cancelled the caeser booking for yesterday morning and went into what sounds good labour after a sweep. . She couldn't talk much about details , but sounded happy with her baby boy called Riley, who was 8lb1 and 54 cms. He has breastfed beautifully, thank goodness. By the gist of the short story , was examined and told to push and wasn't fully. AH. Then told to breathe through etc etc, re examined hours later 6cm. I'm so over women being put through this crap. God I wish people would learn to trust womens bodies and stop fiddling. Why can't they wait until pushy signs happen!! Of course I have n't said anything to her just venting here about this.She sounded tired and a bit spaced out, having regular peth and will talk more when she is out of hospital. She is pleased that she laboured and had no analgesia throughout. It's just a damn pity that she needed the section in the end. I'm off to work a late shift, wish me luck, Cath
Re: [ozmidwifery] vbac didn't happen
Me too! Sick and tired of it all, I wish that people would take time to think... 'does she have any other signs of second stage?' Melissa - Original Message - From: cath nolan To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 10:26 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] vbac didn't happen Hi everyone, My friend had a baby boy last night by c.s. I have spoken with her this morning. After being seen by a wonderful midwife from this list, she rang and cancelled the caeser booking for yesterday morning and went into what sounds good labour after a sweep. . She couldn't talk much about details , but sounded happy with her baby boy called Riley, who was 8lb1 and 54 cms. He has breastfed beautifully, thank goodness. By the gist of the short story , was examined and told to push and wasn't fully. AH. Then told to breathe through etc etc, re examined hours later 6cm. I'm so over women being put through this crap. God I wish people would learn to trust womens bodies and stop fiddling. Why can't they wait until pushy signs happen!! Of course I have n't said anything to her just venting here about this.She sounded tired and a bit spaced out, having regular peth and will talk more when she is out of hospital. She is pleased that she laboured and had no analgesia throughout. It's just a damn pity that she needed the section in the end. I'm off to work a late shift, wish me luck, Cath
Re: [ozmidwifery] What happened with this birth?
Hi Carolyn, Gail and others, I can't agree with you enough Carolyn. Having just completed (yes!!) my BMid degree after attending homebirths for 23 years without a degree, I agree with everything that you have written - in particular the need to work with the doctors not against them, talk to your colleagues, don't just turn off or walk away. We as a society have participated in all that has been set up - the heirarchies, the 'powerful' few, the fear that has permeated and changed women's respect and understanding of birth. And it will only be through quiet, respectful but definite changes - mainly working with and truly understanding the nature of birth and the role that we as midwives can and do play, that anything at all will change. Through my clinical placements over the past two years I have seen many absolutely horrific situations in hospitals and I honestly can't remember one where it wasn't in my eyes due to the management - be it the dominance, the belittling of the woman, the panic from care providers, lots of practices that are not evidence-based and should be changed yesterday, poor practice and often simply the lack of understanding of normal labour by the care providers causing haemorrhages, depressed babies , separation, interference... And so at fifty years old I enter a new faze in my life - not totally sure where or how but it will certainly be building bridges, informing people - families and practitioners alike - of safe and effective practice, agitating for change and then more change. As a mother of four homeborn beautiful kids I feel now like a warrior/lioness ready to move into a new era and will be challenging all those shitty old practices and attitudes as I go. */ Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change/* */the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has./*/ / /Margaret Mead (1901-1978)/ *//* Happy New Year to all of you, Sue Dear Gail, Firstly, your instincts are spot on. This is a very distressing story. It is not a coincidence that these women's labours stalled following his VE's, that is absolutely to be expected and is the result of a mindless disruption of the women's optimal state of neurophyiological functioning. Taylorism, that is an industrial, efficiency management model, has no place in the dynamic fluid process of birth, sadly it has become merged into the 'health' care system with this sort of unconscious abuse becoming more common. 'Discussions' with the doctors at that stage will do nothing except breed resistence and further intervention; in mindless individuals it can even result in payback situations where intervention will be done just because you are the midwife. The right to rule is still endemic in the maternity services. the first thing to understand is that these people really believe they are doing the right thing. the second thing to understand is that they are taught all about the abnormalities of birth, they have absolutely no idea about normal physiology as applied to birth (gross generalisation, I know) the third thing is that they are terrified of birth the fourth thing is that they are taught throughout medical school that they are the boss of everything and the government and health departments agree and structure everything (I know, there are exceptions) to reinforce that idea the fifth and probably MOST important thing is that they do get taught about 'patient' autonomy and the need for consent. So, here is where it gets interesting and where our opportunity lies. It is vitally important that you use every moment with birthing women to help them understand the situation, without making it combatative and engendering a siege mentality and ask them what they want to have happen, how they would like things to go, so they can say what they want - be left alone, checked in another hour a few more hours, more time, a bath, move freely, have the baby listened to by doppler in the shower/bath etc if women have the information that can help them with the deeply damaging throw away lines that get trotted out like 'stillbirth' 'brain damage' etc, then women can say what they want and we as midwives can support them in that and remember to DOCUMENT what women want. To do things against rational people's will is abuse. To argue about medical intervention with midwives is a nuisance and an affront to power beliefs. Getting strategic is important. Learning tactical support of birthing women is a midwifery art form and a very challenging one. It is crucial that you avoid blame, judgement and criticism as these emotional states are damaging for everyone and lead to despair. It is useful to come from the point of view that they mean well but are ignorant about birth physiology and are taught to look for problems. Neuroscience and quantum physics teaches us we find what we are looking for. That
Re: [ozmidwifery] What happened with this birth?
Its been great reading the responses to the original emailI have appreciated all responses however - I'm still lost for how this woman ended up this way. I unfortunately do think about the VE's she had...the swollen lip ffrom the forewaters etcand probably no doubt the *stress* in the room with doctor offering opinions and suggestions - thats enough to bring any woman out of * her space* where she truly needs to be, with baby, in body, so she can listen to her body's needs.. I often wonder if baby would have eventually moved *back* to the more favourable position - and how much longer they may have needed? Surely lips retract eventually? What would have pethidine done here? helped her relax whilst waiting for this - surely pethidine is the lesser of her 4 interventions she received - vaccum, forceps, episotomy, spinal, general then CS. This woman is having a tough time postnatally trying to fill in the gaps herself without *offending* staff by asking too many questions.. And I myself, am asking these questions in order to learn and understand. Thanks, KristinDont miss out post christmas sales on world brand cosmetics and free delivery at Strawberrynet -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] an 18 year old's perspective on birth
Here's a story - a true one to help us understand why birth is as it is. This is the way and 18 year old saw her first birth two days ago - her elder sister's first baby. Due 30.12.06 Booked into a small hospital, shared care with midwives and GP. Planned normal birth. Good pregnancy; no problems. Early labour; membranes ruptured or leaked - slight old mec stained liquor (grade 1) - TRANSFER to tertiary hospital. So no longer 'normal' in family's eyes. 3pm. Birthing now with strangers. Hassle over number of support people - 2 sisters, mother and partner - different policy at this hospital. CTG applied - no ctxs registering, therefore she wasn't in labour (machine was faulty). Graduate midwife on - first day, nice, sweet, introduced herself. Senior midwife 'crabby' - didn't introduce herself, constantly made negative comments about 'young staff', undermining. 8pm Request for pain relief (plan was for none, maybe to use water - small hospital allows water births/immersion, not this one) - pv finds cervix at 3cm. Staff change. Really crabby midwife now on duty - sweet one leaves. Morphine given about 8.30-8.45 pm Team still hassled about numbers - taking it in turns to support. (This hospital has the smallest waiting area and the family waiting for this baby alone numbered 10 - includes the immediate support - only 3 chairs in waiting room ... hospital with 800 odd births per year). Very quick labour once well established to birth at 10.30pm . Baby OK for about 10 minutes, then went into respiratory depression, required resuscitation, narcan, to SCN for night. Some panic and everyone asked to leave ... !8 year old's perspective; The birth was sort of OK - big sister smiled a lot BUT birth is so scary - terrified of baby needing more help. I'd be too scared to come home. The good bit - that the partner helped to lift baby out. The staff - apart from the new graduate, they'd all forgotten that it was my sister's special day - they were pretty awful and tired and grumpy. Noone explained that morphine might have that effect on the baby. Hospital space was shocking - small, cramped, unwelcoming. She was yelled at for using the wrong corridor by another grumpy person (she didn't know there was another one to use - and she's not stupid!!). and so it went on. This is what is wrong with birth today. Crabby, grumpy, panicky, unwelcoming, scary, lack of information... Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] vbac didn't happen
I'm sorry to hear that, Cath. Next baby she is in a really big pickle now : ( Some nurturing in order for you and for her I think. With love and strength, J - Original Message - From: cath nolan To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 12:26 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] vbac didn't happen Hi everyone, My friend had a baby boy last night by c.s. I have spoken with her this morning. After being seen by a wonderful midwife from this list, she rang and cancelled the caeser booking for yesterday morning and went into what sounds good labour after a sweep. . She couldn't talk much about details , but sounded happy with her baby boy called Riley, who was 8lb1 and 54 cms. He has breastfed beautifully, thank goodness. By the gist of the short story , was examined and told to push and wasn't fully. AH. Then told to breathe through etc etc, re examined hours later 6cm. I'm so over women being put through this crap. God I wish people would learn to trust womens bodies and stop fiddling. Why can't they wait until pushy signs happen!! Of course I have n't said anything to her just venting here about this.She sounded tired and a bit spaced out, having regular peth and will talk more when she is out of hospital. She is pleased that she laboured and had no analgesia throughout. It's just a damn pity that she needed the section in the end. I'm off to work a late shift, wish me luck, Cath
Re: [ozmidwifery] What happened with this birth?
Congratulations Sue on hanging in there and having just completed my BMid degree'. I'd say welcome to the sisterhood but it feels like I'd be doing it 23 years too late. Andrea Q On 30/12/2006, at 2:14 PM, Sue Cookson wrote: Hi Carolyn, Gail and others, I can't agree with you enough Carolyn. Having just completed (yes!!) my BMid degree after attending homebirths for 23 years without a degree, I agree with everything that you have written - in particular the need to work with the doctors not against them, talk to your colleagues, don't just turn off or walk away. We as a society have participated in all that has been set up - the heirarchies, the 'powerful' few, the fear that has permeated and changed women's respect and understanding of birth. And it will only be through quiet, respectful but definite changes - mainly working with and truly understanding the nature of birth and the role that we as midwives can and do play, that anything at all will change. Through my clinical placements over the past two years I have seen many absolutely horrific situations in hospitals and I honestly can't remember one where it wasn't in my eyes due to the management - be it the dominance, the belittling of the woman, the panic from care providers, lots of practices that are not evidence-based and should be changed yesterday, poor practice and often simply the lack of understanding of normal labour by the care providers causing haemorrhages, depressed babies , separation, interference... And so at fifty years old I enter a new faze in my life - not totally sure where or how but it will certainly be building bridges, informing people - families and practitioners alike - of safe and effective practice, agitating for change and then more change. As a mother of four homeborn beautiful kids I feel now like a warrior/lioness ready to move into a new era and will be challenging all those shitty old practices and attitudes as I go. Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead (1901-1978) Happy New Year to all of you, Sue Dear Gail, Firstly, your instincts are spot on. This is a very distressing story. It is not a coincidence that these women's labours stalled following his VE's, that is absolutely to be expected and is the result of a mindless disruption of the women's optimal state of neurophyiological functioning. Taylorism, that is an industrial, efficiency management model, has no place in the dynamic fluid process of birth, sadly it has become merged into the 'health' care system with this sort of unconscious abuse becoming more common. 'Discussions' with the doctors at that stage will do nothing except breed resistence and further intervention; in mindless individuals it can even result in payback situations where intervention will be done just because you are the midwife. The right to rule is still endemic in the maternity services. the first thing to understand is that these people really believe they are doing the right thing. the second thing to understand is that they are taught all about the abnormalities of birth, they have absolutely no idea about normal physiology as applied to birth (gross generalisation, I know) the third thing is that they are terrified of birth the fourth thing is that they are taught throughout medical school that they are the boss of everything and the government and health departments agree and structure everything (I know, there are exceptions) to reinforce that idea the fifth and probably MOST important thing is that they do get taught about 'patient' autonomy and the need for consent. So, here is where it gets interesting and where our opportunity lies. It is vitally important that you use every moment with birthing women to help them understand the situation, without making it combatative and engendering a siege mentality and ask them what they want to have happen, how they would like things to go, so they can say what they want - be left alone, checked in another hour a few more hours, more time, a bath, move freely, have the baby listened to by doppler in the shower/bath etc if women have the information that can help them with the deeply damaging throw away lines that get trotted out like 'stillbirth' 'brain damage' etc, then women can say what they want and we as midwives can support them in that and remember to DOCUMENT what women want. To do things against rational people's will is abuse. To argue about medical intervention with midwives is a nuisance and an affront to power beliefs. Getting strategic is important. Learning tactical support of birthing women is a midwifery art form and a very challenging one. It is crucial that you avoid blame, judgement and criticism as these emotional states
Re: [ozmidwifery] What happened with this birth?
Thanks Andrea. It is a funny one - I'm still giggling a bit myself!! Sue Congratulations Sue on hanging in there and having just completed my BMid degree'. I'd say welcome to the sisterhood but it feels like I'd be doing it 23 years too late. Andrea Q On 30/12/2006, at 2:14 PM, Sue Cookson wrote: Hi Carolyn, Gail and others, I can't agree with you enough Carolyn. Having just completed (yes!!) my BMid degree after attending homebirths for 23 years without a degree, I agree with everything that you have written - in particular the need to work with the doctors not against them, talk to your colleagues, don't just turn off or walk away. We as a society have participated in all that has been set up - the heirarchies, the 'powerful' few, the fear that has permeated and changed women's respect and understanding of birth. And it will only be through quiet, respectful but definite changes - mainly working with and truly understanding the nature of birth and the role that we as midwives can and do play, that anything at all will change. Through my clinical placements over the past two years I have seen many absolutely horrific situations in hospitals and I honestly can't remember one where it wasn't in my eyes due to the management - be it the dominance, the belittling of the woman, the panic from care providers, lots of practices that are not evidence-based and should be changed yesterday, poor practice and often simply the lack of understanding of normal labour by the care providers causing haemorrhages, depressed babies , separation, interference... And so at fifty years old I enter a new faze in my life - not totally sure where or how but it will certainly be building bridges, informing people - families and practitioners alike - of safe and effective practice, agitating for change and then more change. As a mother of four homeborn beautiful kids I feel now like a warrior/lioness ready to move into a new era and will be challenging all those shitty old practices and attitudes as I go. */ Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change/* */the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has./*/ / /Margaret Mead (1901-1978)/ *//* Happy New Year to all of you, Sue Dear Gail, Firstly, your instincts are spot on. This is a very distressing story. It is not a coincidence that these women's labours stalled following his VE's, that is absolutely to be expected and is the result of a mindless disruption of the women's optimal state of neurophyiological functioning. Taylorism, that is an industrial, efficiency management model, has no place in the dynamic fluid process of birth, sadly it has become merged into the 'health' care system with this sort of unconscious abuse becoming more common. 'Discussions' with the doctors at that stage will do nothing except breed resistence and further intervention; in mindless individuals it can even result in payback situations where intervention will be done just because you are the midwife. The right to rule is still endemic in the maternity services. the first thing to understand is that these people really believe they are doing the right thing. the second thing to understand is that they are taught all about the abnormalities of birth, they have absolutely no idea about normal physiology as applied to birth (gross generalisation, I know) the third thing is that they are terrified of birth the fourth thing is that they are taught throughout medical school that they are the boss of everything and the government and health departments agree and structure everything (I know, there are exceptions) to reinforce that idea the fifth and probably MOST important thing is that they do get taught about 'patient' autonomy and the need for consent. So, here is where it gets interesting and where our opportunity lies. It is vitally important that you use every moment with birthing women to help them understand the situation, without making it combatative and engendering a siege mentality and ask them what they want to have happen, how they would like things to go, so they can say what they want - be left alone, checked in another hour a few more hours, more time, a bath, move freely, have the baby listened to by doppler in the shower/bath etc if women have the information that can help them with the deeply damaging throw away lines that get trotted out like 'stillbirth' 'brain damage' etc, then women can say what they want and we as midwives can support them in that and remember to DOCUMENT what women want. To do things against rational people's will is abuse. To argue about medical intervention with midwives is a nuisance and an affront to power beliefs. Getting strategic is important. Learning tactical support of birthing women is a midwifery art form and a very challenging one. It is crucial that you avoid blame, judgement and
[ozmidwifery] Taylorism
Hi Sally, thanks to you and the others for your kind words. We all ought to get together for coffee (or Caro or Green Tea :-) Perhaps the next homebirth conference?? Of course you can forward this and anything else I write to whoever you wish. As for Taylorism, Frederick Winslow Taylor was the 'father' of scientific management, very centered on industrial 'efficiency' and his work was used in time and motion studies. Lenin loved his ideas and you can see what happened in the USSR as a result. His ideas have found their way into many aspects of human life, including the birth place. If you have the internet, you can google 'taylorism' and you can read as much as you like about him and his work. Happy New Year, love, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Sally @ home [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] What happened with this birth? Carolyn, You are amazing...after being completely denigrated by the medicos and some of my colleagues for believing that women DO NOT need V'E's every 4 hours to assess progress of labour, what you have written is a breath of fresh air, with your permission I would like to forward your previous email to my colleagues, to make those who practice obsteric nursing aware and to support those who truly work with women. Have you got some info on Taylorism, I would like saome background on it. Thanks heaps. regards Sally - Original Message - From: Gail McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] What happened with this birth? WOW!!! Thank you thank you thank you. Carolyn, that was just what I needed. Are you going to the homebirth conference this year? If so, I would dearly love to catch up with you everyone else who contributes to the ozmidwifery site. maybe we can wear a flower or something so we recognise each other. Much love and admiration, Gail From: Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] What happened with this birth? Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 13:24:40 +1100 Dear Gail, Firstly, your instincts are spot on. This is a very distressing story. It is not a coincidence that these women's labours stalled following his VE's, that is absolutely to be expected and is the result of a mindless disruption of the women's optimal state of neurophyiological functioning. Taylorism, that is an industrial, efficiency management model, has no place in the dynamic fluid process of birth, sadly it has become merged into the 'health' care system with this sort of unconscious abuse becoming more common. 'Discussions' with the doctors at that stage will do nothing except breed resistence and further intervention; in mindless individuals it can even result in payback situations where intervention will be done just because you are the midwife. The right to rule is still endemic in the maternity services. the first thing to understand is that these people really believe they are doing the right thing. the second thing to understand is that they are taught all about the abnormalities of birth, they have absolutely no idea about normal physiology as applied to birth (gross generalisation, I know) the third thing is that they are terrified of birth the fourth thing is that they are taught throughout medical school that they are the boss of everything and the government and health departments agree and structure everything (I know, there are exceptions) to reinforce that idea the fifth and probably MOST important thing is that they do get taught about 'patient' autonomy and the need for consent. So, here is where it gets interesting and where our opportunity lies. It is vitally important that you use every moment with birthing women to help them understand the situation, without making it combatative and engendering a siege mentality and ask them what they want to have happen, how they would like things to go, so they can say what they want - be left alone, checked in another hour a few more hours, more time, a bath, move freely, have the baby listened to by doppler in the shower/bath etc if women have the information that can help them with the deeply damaging throw away lines that get trotted out like 'stillbirth' 'brain damage' etc, then women can say what they want and we as midwives can support them in that and remember to DOCUMENT what women want. To do things against rational people's will is abuse. To argue about medical intervention with midwives is a nuisance and an affront to power beliefs. Getting strategic is important. Learning tactical support of birthing women is a midwifery art form and a very challenging one. It is crucial that you avoid blame, judgement and criticism as these emotional states are
[ozmidwifery] culture shift, warrior women, fazes and phases (was 'what happened with this birth)
Yep :-) Hey Lioness/warrior woman - namaste it is all about culture shift and it is happening getting quicker now. you say it is a new 'faze' - was that an intentional double entendre? I think we are all much more clear sighted and clear minded than ever. :-) hugs, love and Happy New Year, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] What happened with this birth? Hi Carolyn, Gail and others, I can't agree with you enough Carolyn. Having just completed (yes!!) my BMid degree after attending homebirths for 23 years without a degree, I agree with everything that you have written - in particular the need to work with the doctors not against them, talk to your colleagues, don't just turn off or walk away. We as a society have participated in all that has been set up - the heirarchies, the 'powerful' few, the fear that has permeated and changed women's respect and understanding of birth. And it will only be through quiet, respectful but definite changes - mainly working with and truly understanding the nature of birth and the role that we as midwives can and do play, that anything at all will change. Through my clinical placements over the past two years I have seen many absolutely horrific situations in hospitals and I honestly can't remember one where it wasn't in my eyes due to the management - be it the dominance, the belittling of the woman, the panic from care providers, lots of practices that are not evidence-based and should be changed yesterday, poor practice and often simply the lack of understanding of normal labour by the care providers causing haemorrhages, depressed babies , separation, interference... And so at fifty years old I enter a new faze in my life - not totally sure where or how but it will certainly be building bridges, informing people - families and practitioners alike - of safe and effective practice, agitating for change and then more change. As a mother of four homeborn beautiful kids I feel now like a warrior/lioness ready to move into a new era and will be challenging all those shitty old practices and attitudes as I go. Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead (1901-1978) Happy New Year to all of you, Sue
Re: [ozmidwifery] what happened in this birth..?
Dear Kristin, you said: This woman is having a tough time postnatally trying to fill in the gaps herself without *offending* staff by asking too many questions.. What is giving this woman the impression she is at risk of 'offending' staff? This is very worrying. I would encourage her to make an appointment to see the doctor(s) and midwife(ves) who were looking after her and go through the notes step by step. She can make the appointment through the manager of the 'delivery suite/labour ward' or the service manager or the head staff specialist. She has every right to get her questions answered in a way that make sense to her. She probably needs someone with her to support her and who can help her with asking the questions she wants answers to. As Andrea said, it is very difficult to make sense of what happens to women in labour unless you were there, and even then it can be hard to understand sometimes. warmly, Carolyn
[ozmidwifery] For Sue
Hi Sue, Now I have to ask.are you the Sue at swans who I know from a few shifts we did together at the swan valley centre and recently on restorative? It is a very small world indeed and that would make me smile if it were so, after the whinge I had about my most recent birth experience to you a couple of weeks ago (if my guess is right). Amy
